Twitter TL reaction to Ryan Owens moment:
Press: how powerful and moving
Veteran friends: this is gross and uncomfortable
— Soldier Jane (@sgtjanedoe) March 1, 2017
Media people in my feed (left) viewed Trump's Navy SEAL moment last night very differently from the veterans (right). A story in two images: pic.twitter.com/P2vlptE5B1
— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) March 1, 2017
Phillip Carter, “a former Army officer and former Pentagon official who is now senior fellow at a Center for a New American Security”, at Slate, explains why “Donald Trump’s appropriation of Ryan Owens’ heroism and Carryn Owens’ grief was a disgrace“:
If you stuck with President Donald Trump to the end of his speech to a joint session of Congress on Tuesday, you would have been treated to a patriotic display that much of the media felt was guaranteed to warm your heart. For two minutes and 11 seconds, Trump exhorted the audience in Congress—and at home—to stand for Carryn Owens, the wife of Navy SEAL William “Ryan” Owens, who was killed during a disastrous counterterrorism raid in Yemen ordered by Trump just days after his inauguration.
Words cannot convey my compassion and sympathy for Owens and her family. And yet, at the same time, I can barely contain my anger and disgust at the way that Trump put her on display, seeking to appropriate her grief—and her deceased husband’s heroism—for his political gain. This was stolen valor on a presidential scale. And to make matters worse, it fits into a broader pattern of integrity theft by Trump, wherein he’s sought during his first weeks in office to attack or corrupt the integrity of the CIA, the military, and the Department of Homeland Security…
That Trump used this reality show moment to co-opt Owens’ heroism after so recklessly ordering the raid that cost him his life—and has since evaded responsibility for that raid—added insult to injury. There stood the commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces, the most powerful man on the planet, having attempted within the past 24 hours to avoid responsibility for the things he could (and did) control while seeking to claim laurels for acts of valor he had no claim to. It was disgraceful…
Read the whole thing, and maybe forward it to those of your low-info associates who are starry-eyed about Trump’s new “Presidential” tone.
Baud
Didn’t vets overwhelmingly vote for Trump?
Timurid
Just look at the photos of the Joint Chiefs, who all looked like they were struggling to keep their dinners down…
BruceFromOhio
BUT HER EMAILS.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Damn, this is getting surreal.
Soonergrunt
Like many things Trump, this is one of those things that people see through the lens of their appreciation for, or disgust by him.
I know Vets who think it’s just fine, to which I ask “hey, you want your wife held up like that? They’re clapping, which was important enough for Trump to mention it. That gonna keep your orphaned kid warm at night?”
Everything Trump does, he does for self-aggrandizement. EVERYTHING.
And something like another person’s dignity is not a concept he seems to understand.
Starfish
We are reading about how Sessions lied to Congress about interactions with Russians during his confirmation here, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Soonergrunt: Hey SG, how’s it hanging?
Baud
@Baud:
I mean, Trump did nearly the same thing with Benghazi mom. I’m happy to kabuki the outrage if it’s helpful, but this is what people who voted for him voted for.
PsiFighter37
I know the bar gets set really low for mediocre white men, but this takes the absolute fucking cake.
Sigh.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
For the nth time today, as a human being I’m sorry for this woman’s loss, but as a citizen, I don’t care. Trump quoted (“I quote”) the Secretary of Defense as saying that this raid had been bigly successful and brought in valuable intelligence that will (not may) lead to great victories in the future.
Ten Defense and IC sources said today, what they were saying twenty-four hours ago, that this is not true.
There’s a strong case to be made that the President of the United States put lies in the mouth of the Secretary of Defense. The Warrior Monk owes it to the country to clear this up.
schrodingers_cat
Should I send this letter to a newspaper?
Mr Trump is getting far too much credit for striking a presidential tone while addressing the joint session of Congress, yesterday. While the tone may have been less belligerent the content of the speech was no different from immigrant bashing rhetoric we have heard from the Republican President since the day he announced his candidacy for the job. The President could not even be bothered to utter the name of the Indian tech worker casually murdered in a Kansas bar. Mr. Srinivas Kuchibhotla was just enjoying a drink after a hard day’s work when he was gunned down for what he represented to the murderer, an illegal immigrant from the Middle East. An unwanted usurper who was stealing a job or worse. It didn’t matter that Mr. Kuchibhotla was neither. All immigrants are fungible and better dead than alive in Mr. Trump’s America. How many more people have to die and how many more Jewish cemeteries have to desecrated for the press to call Mr. Trump’s rhetoric what it is, hate speech. Coming from leaders of nations such speech has led to genocide in the not so distant past. Mr. Trump lies casually, his statistics bear no resemblance to reality. A lie is still a lie, even at low decibels. Is constant lying and fomenting hatred, presidential? If so, the bar is so low that it is underground.
In Mr. Trump’s nightmare fantasy land, immigrants are moochers, criminals or worse. They are here to take away jobs and lives and they contribute nothing. In real life however the economic contribution of immigrants is substantial. In addition to contributing to the GDP, most immigrants, contribute to both Social Security and Medicare, which they will benefit from, if and when they become permanent residents. The path to permanent residency unless one is a spouse of a United States citizen is a hard climb and far from easy. This was true even before the current administration came to power.
If the moral imperative does not sway the third estate then the economic imperative should. The travel ban has already negatively impacted tourism industry. If the full restrictionist agenda proposed by Mr. Trump goes into action expect similar impact in the fields of medicine, health care, higher education, scientific research, tech and agriculture. Mr. Trump is playing with fire and it is the responsibility of the press to hold his feet to the fire Their duty is to be the watchdogs of democracy not lapdogs of the powerful. Don’t prove Mr. Trump right by behaving like craven enemies of democracy, do your job. The future of the Republic is at stake.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Starfish:
Yes – this apparently is a land mine left to detonate by Obama. It’s being covered in full by MSNBC as huge breaking news.
Major Major Major Major
@BruceFromOhio: plus Lena Dunham is annoying, so suck it, libtard cucks!
Jeffro
“Integrity theft”…”dignity wraith” (Josh Marshall)…”Trumpsubstantiation” (Betty Cracker)… it’s all the same thing: everything this guy touches including our country becomes debased afterwards.
I’m starting to wonder if Trump might not be “the walking dude” from The Stand
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Even if it’s not true, it’s a wonderful alternative fact to spread.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: don’t forget that Sam Bee emasculated poor Ross Douthat with her meanieness and jokes.
Jeffro
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: on an odd sidenote to that reporting on MSNBC … The video clips make sessions look like a hobbit next to trump … I know Trump is over 6 feet tall but sessions must be about 4 1/2 feet tall
Height is half the story in American politics!
Starfish
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: People are acting like he should recuse himself from Russia investigations under the assumption that Republicans are not completely feckless. There should be a recall mechanism where these guys can be booted.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Starfish: there is, I believe cabinet members are subject to impeachment
SFAW
@Starfish:
Agreed. They’re outstanding at fecking the American people.
BruceFromOhio
@schrodingers_cat:
You have to ask? Exercise your 1A while it’s still recognized as law.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Can we do it Cardassian-style?
Lapassionara
@schrodingers_cat: I think this is well written and thoughtful. My question is, what newspaper?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@BruceFromOhio: Yup, gotta keep our priorities straight.
efgoldman
Meanwhile, back at the ranch (reposting from the end of the dead thread two down)
So, our chief law enforcement officer perjured himself in his confirmation hearings. Whoop de do!
At least John Mitchell didn’t do anything illegal until after he was AG.
Another Scott
Donnie is a lying, brain damaged, monster. We’ve known this for a very long time.
In other news, Donnie has all of $20M to build his big, beautiful wall. Reuters (Warning – autoplay videos on the page):
This is my Shocked, Shocked face.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and Jon Stewart, and the 100,000 people who watched his show, so smug!
weaselone
@Baud:
This was a little different than Benghazi mom. Trump deliberately set himself up to be the beneficiary of people’s gratitude and sympathy for the sacrifice of the Seal and his widow. It was timed directly at the end of his speech for maximum effect and you saw how it worked on all of the pundits. Everyone felt a wave of emotion and patriotism as the speech wrapped up, so they were left with a strong positive impression of Trump and the speech as a whole. You’ll note that some pundits like Katie Tur ultimately backtracked after pushback and enough time had passed for their brains and logic to reassert control. It’s because they graded Trump and the speech based on their final emotional state, which was dictated by their reaction to Carryn Owens’ grief and her and her husband’s sacrifice not the content or quality of Trump’s speech.
cmorenc
@Starfish:
Being a man of perfect integrity, Sessions will investigate, indict, and prosecute himself, and post-conviction argue that the judge should give him a harsh sentence for lying under oath, and demand the Alabama State Bar to suspend his law license for the ethical violation.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, it expresses an important message very well and needs a large audience. And something similar should be sent to your local, state, and national representatives, also too.
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
“If the Attorney General does it, it’s not illegal. (Even if he did it before he was AG.)”
Channelling Tricksy Dicksy Nixie, just for you!
Montysano
@efgoldman: So, the pushback will be “Sessions spoke to him as a senator, not as a Trump campaign surrogate.” Will this hold water? We’ll see, I guess.
But I think we have to consider the possibility that Barack Obama is actually a ninja. At least that’s what I prefer to believe.
Gvg
I wouldn’t expect better from Trump but it disgusts and frighten’s me that the media and most civilian’s don’t know on the spot how wrong this was. I know, and I have only distant knowledge of real military service. So many people think they respect the military service but they are so ignorant of the real living people. Have you ever noticed that some of the worst military fetishers are the ones who evaded service? Not always though. Anyway, not sure one example is enough to upset the current traditional military tend republican.
Timurid
@SFAW:
I prefer Japanese style.
mainmata
But this very thoughtful repost never gets mainstream publicity so that the mindless Beltway media fauners continue to opine about his Presidential style. He’s a demagogue and wannabee Fascist only.
Adam L Silverman
@Starfish: News just broke:
There is a pattern of at least four cabinet nominees lying under oath at their confirmations: AG Sessions, Secretary Mnuchin, Secretary Price, and Secretary Pruitt. This, in and of itself, should be enough for Congress to hit the breaks so hard and so fast as to leave skid marks between DC and LA and back to enforce its powers as a co-equal branch of government and in oversight of the Executive Branch. But this is, itself, even worse. As I’ve written before, if you were trying to ensure an appearance of impropriety this repeated pattern, by the President, the inner circles of his campaign, transition, and now Administration, several family members, and senior members of his business is the textbook way to do it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Baud:
It is true, but the sources won’t reveal themselves, is the thinking, until there’s a bipartisan commission that swears them in as witnesses. Until then they’ll remain leakers. The interesting thing is that some of the leaks are coming from the Sessions transition team from during the time of the campaign, not while he was acting as a Senator or as AG.
SFAW
@cmorenc:
Yeah, he and Comey — the two of them together set the World Record for Integrity. Or perhaps they jointly win the Nobel Peace Prize for Integrity.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: heh. Skid marks.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, Adam, always the jokester.
Adam L Silverman
I’m in complete agreement with Carter and the military folks in Friedman’s timeline. That was my take after I watched it last night. And Hewitt’s attempt to spin it was even more offensive, as I wrote in a comment last night.
efgoldman
@Montysano:
The problem isn’t that he DID it; the problem is he LIED about it under oath to Congress. That’s perjury.
Hey, lawyers: How, where and who could get disbarment procedures started? Not that I think that the Alabama bar would croak him, but at least he wouldn’t be investigating himself.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: imagine the liburel media’s outrage/hysteria if Kerry in 04 or Obama in 08 had a gold star mother on stage during the convention saying Bush was responsible for her son’s/daughter’s death.
SFAW
@Timurid:
Who gets to be the lucky kaishakunin? And does he have to wait, or can he just “hurry things along”? [Note: Not excluding wimmins from the fun, by the way.]
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: disbarment? Don’t be ridiculous, he didn’t lie about a blowjob, just treason.
efgoldman
@Gvg:
Apparently just wearing a uniform for a certain number of years makes you a “hero.” At least, that’s what some dumb-ass RWNJ congresscritter (they all look alike) called Flynn, after he was forced to resign.
Montysano
@efgoldman: I live in Alabama. I would so enjoy seeing Beauregard Sessions go down in flames.
schrodingers_cat
@Lapassionara: Boston Globe.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Hero is a word that should be used sparingly.
Aleta
@Baud: That’s what’s been said. I wonder, what about Hispanic vets/active, AA vets/active, women, veterans who opposed past wars?
Jeffro
@efgoldman: remember when we used to have standards ? You know during a Democratic administration?
Omnes Omnibus
@Aleta: I wouldn’t be surprised if media left off the word white when writing about vets.
Steve in the ATL
@efgoldman: I wonder if any member of the Alabama bar would have standing to file an ethics complaint against him. Or if bar membership or Alabama residence is even a requirement to do so. No idea, but I have posed the question to a very liberal lawyer friend in Huntsville.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
I thought you were out in 413-land. Was I wrong, or is the Glob just the closest thing to a newspaper where you are? (I have no idea what Springfield has for journalism, for example.)
laura
Because there was a stun gun, tow-chain and Court Order strong enough to force me to watch the address to the joint session last night, we watched the Mr.’s preferred Tuesday night fare. Just so happens that Tosh.0 did a segment on stolen valor in which enlisted or former service members called out some guys in public who were in a variety of uniforms. It did not go well. And yet, each shambling, hot mess d-bag acted with more dignitude that trmp.
catclub
@PsiFighter37:
Till the next one.
Timurid
Sickest burn so far from Twitter:
He was warned.
He was given an explanation.
Nevertheless, he perjured.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: I have no idea either. I used to subscribe to Vichy Times and WSJ, now its WashPost and occasionally Boston Globe.
Montysano
@Steve in the ATL:
I’d be surprised is I didn’t know him/her, as I live in Huntsville.
Mike in NC
Mitt Rmoney was a serial draft dodger, but the vets loved him. Trump also had five deferments for alleged bone spurs, and the vets loved him. Both assholes liked to talk tough about fighting wars. It’s a Republican thing.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
That senate majority did a HELL of a job investigating and vetting cabinet nominees, hm?
They are all complicit, every fucking one of them. Not a single one should be cut any slack at all, except maybe Hatch and Grandpa Walnuts for reason of senility.
Every single Dem senate candidate in the next cycle has to be yelling “crooked! liar”! for the entire campaign at the top of his lungs.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
The Globe is no longer liberal, by the way. That may be immaterial as far as you’re concerned, vis-a-vis your letter, but just thought I’d mention it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in NC: Because John Kerry was an effete snob. Or something.
Lyrebird
This part sticks in my craw. I have just as little…no, less military experience than the dignity wraith. So if I’m way off here, I’ll hold my head up while being corrected.
Here goes — not only was the coopting of this fresh grief for the widow pretty wrong in my eyes, the whole way that man talks about the soldier who died doesn’t seem to see the bravery that every member of the unit displays on EVERY raid. And doesn’t seem to see what that means about how seriously a commander should think about ANY action.
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
The RWNJs use LOTS of words that should be used sparingly, or not at all.
efgoldman
@Steve in the ATL:
Is the state supreme court the final word on disbarment? Because that ten commandment klown is back.
Steve in the ATL
@Montysano: guarantee that you know his name and at least someone in his firm. Don’t want to out him here, though!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Well, if we’re including senility you have to make some allowance for Grassley, too
What should we ask our good Senators: “Will the Senator be making a statement?” “How does the Senator now feel about his/her vote to confirm?” ?
Lyrebird
@SFAW: The Globe was liberal once? more than 40 yrs ago maybe?
Omnes Omnibus
@Lyrebird: Before I joined the army, I had to do a lot of hard thinking about 1. my ability to take someone’s life, and 2. my ability, as an officer, to order someone to do something that could cost that person his/her life.
Adam L Silverman
And here’s the smoking gun:
And from WaPo:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-spoke-twice-with-russian-ambassador-during-trumps-presidential-campaign-justice-officials-say/2017/03/01/77205eda-feac-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html?utm_term=.ba64ec3adff0
And the larger problem as laid out by the NY Times – other countries’ Intel Communities have actionable intelligence on the connections between the President’s campaign and the Russians.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/us/politics/obama-trump-russia-election-hacking.html?_r=0
efgoldman
@SFAW:
It is no longer anything, but it’s still the home town paper.
ETA: It has taken on the personality of its owner, which is to say no personality at all.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: I just wrote down what I felt. Off the top of my head I know at least two people called Srinivas, one a dear friend and the other a cousin by marriage. I saw the photographs of his grieving mother at his funeral. I don’t know, its hit me hard this death.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Most papers have word limits. You might want to check that before sending.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: Governing is hard, fomenting hatred is easy.
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Nothing that subtle. “Why did you vote for at least four perjurers for cabinet posts, including the attorney general?”
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: I will do that.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
IIRC, when he was interviewed for some Sunday show during the campaign, he claimed he couldn’t remember which foot had the heel spurs!
debbie
I’m no fan of Reagan, but that was no “Reaganesque moment.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought he was French or something.
Lizzy L
@efgoldman: But is that what happened? Did he flat-out lie, or did he simply “forget” to disclose a contact which he’s going to spin as unimportant anyway. There are so many ways for him to weasel out of this.
Anne Laurie
@Another Scott:
… What percentage of that $20mil do you wanna bet ends up “mysteriously” diverted to one of Don Jr.’s or Eric’s ‘construction enterprises’?
Kids need their walking-around money. Sure, the taxpayers are on the hook for their board and bodyguards now, but hookers and dealers are adamant about cash in advance of services.
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I said effete snob, didn’t I?
Yarrow
This Sessions and Russia stuff. I said last night that the Intelligence Community would let some juicy tidbit drop today or tomorrow. And there it is! Our IC is coming for them. The IC can’t do their jobs properly because of Trump and this administration. They can’t keep us safe. These leaks are them working to keep us safe. Get rid of the Russian agents and other traitors.
efgoldman
@Lizzy L:
I didn’t see/hear the testimony, but if he was asked a direct question and answered “no” that’s pretty much it, I would think.
Steve in the ATL
@efgoldman: Huntsville friend says the specific rules are irrelevant as there is no chance the Alabama bar would discsipline him.
Honus
This is the same Donald Trump that during the campaign took the Purple Heart medal offered to him by a veteran and said “is this real or a reproduction? Thanks, I’ve always wanted one of these”
any veteran or military person that supports this man is a contemptible hypocrite.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: Indeed.
As an aside, I’m sure there’s a well known story/explanation why this is the case, but it’s struck me as weird that Hero was a woman but the word “hero” usually refers to a male. Of course, “hero” has the same root as “heroic”, but the female character generally seems to have been forgotten.
Cheers,
Scott.
Tokyokie
@schrodingers_cat: I agree with the sentiment of the letter, but as a former longtime newspaper copy editor, I can assure you that letters are usually edited for length. The less you give the editors to trim, the more your thoughts will see print.
schrodingers_cat
@Tokyokie: This was kind of a free writing draft. Just put down what was going on in my head for the last several days. I will edit it and make it more crisp.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: And the Leander Club is one of the oldest British rowing clubs. Hugh Laurie is a member.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Here you go:
SFAW
@Lyrebird:
A lot more recently than that. But not since John Henry bought them.
Starfish
Elijah Cummings and Nancy Pelosi are calling for Session’s resignation.
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: Here’s a bigger question: does he have to be a member of the DC bar as AG?
efgoldman
@Steve in the ATL:
That’s what I thought.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: And lets not forget the sandwich!
http://www.thekitchn.com/hoagies-heroes-subs-and-grinders-whats-the-deal-with-these-sandwich-names-222944
Honus
@Adam L Silverman: No. No justice department lawyer has to be a member of a state bar. They are automatically admitted to practice.
Peale
@Anne Laurie: they could take the money from the coast guard and FEMA. Since Mexicans cause all the disasters in the country anyway, building the wall will prevent hurricanes and flooding.
Another Scott
@Mike in NC: Four for College, one for Bad Feet:
A very strong letter! For a very strong man!!1
:-/
He lies about every single thing.
Someone should ask him if he wants to be on Musk’s rocket around the Moon next year. He’s big and brave and strong and healthy and smart and rich and has the best genes, surely he wants to go, right??
Cheers,
Scott.
Sab
@Lyrebird: SEALS aren’t soldiers. They are in the Navy. Doesn’t that make them sailors?
Tokyokie
@Timurid: Poor photo selection. That still is of the great Nakadai Tatsuya from Kobayashi Masaki’s Seppuku, and as the story unfolds over many flashbacks, we learn that his character has no intention of committing seppuku but rather seeks to reveal the hypocrisy of the clan where he asks to commit ritual suicide and take out as many of its members as he can. This picture of Mishima Yukio is what you want.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sab: Yes, it does.
Adam L Silverman
@Honus: Thanks. That’s why I asked.
frosty
@schrodingers_cat: This is great writing, but too long for a letter. Break it into 3 and submit one a week maybe?
Honus
@Mike in NC: but John Kerry, with his three Purple Hearts and silver star, was an object of ridicule.
Adam L Silverman
@Sab: SeALs are Sailors.
RM
@Jeffro: He doesn’t have the R.F. initials, sadly… although if you turn them back to front (F.R.) and then go back one letter (F to D) for the first and forward one letter (R to T) for the second…
Honus
@Adam L Silverman: I hope I’m right. Pretty sure I am, it’s that way in every jurisdiction in which I’ve practiced. There’s an exception for federal government lawyers.
Another Scott
@Honus: The GOP standard playbook, for a long time, is to attack any candidate’s strength with any bogus, stupid argument they can come up with. Max Cleland lost 3 limbs in Vietnam, but he somehow “[broke] his oath to support and defend the Constitution” in a vote for an amendment to the Chemical Weapons Treaty.
They’re shameless and will do anything to win.
Cheers,
Scott.
RM
@Omnes Omnibus: If the media doesn’t proceed something with ‘Latino’ or ‘African American’ then you know they’re just talking about white people.
NotoriousJRT
@Soonergrunt:
Word.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Lizzy L:
I thought the Trump admin position is “To late, no do overs”
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I guess if the current president had done one millionth of that amount of thinking… I dunno maybe Bannon woulda found a different Trojan horse.
Respect to you.
The Lodger
@Sab: Yep. Even if you’re an aircraft mechanic who will never be assigned to a vessel, if you’re in the Navy, you’re a sailor.
LongHairedWeirdo
For good or ill, if she was informed that this would happen, and agreed, I can’t blame Trump for using it.
But dear god, if that SOB ambushed her…
When my mom died – a good many years back, so, no need for sympathy – I had a well meaning person want to talk to me about what “stress” I was under (because I had mentioned I was stressed). And I can’t express how horrible it was to have someone pressing me to live within the grief and anguish I’d been living with to talk about it. My mom had died suddenly, you see – and it was *really* complicated. If someone is grieving, you do not throw their grief in their face no matter HOW well meaning you are.
And, well, if she agreed to let him mention her husband in his speech, and she agreed to be mentioned and focused upon… well, that’s her right.
But dear god, *no one* deserves to have their grief toyed with, *EVER*. And while I don’t *like* Trump, I’ve never hated him. He’s… well, he’s like a virus. You don’t *hate* a virus, you try to contain it. But if I learned that he didn’t clear that part of his speech with her… that would make me feel hate for the man, at least briefly.
Ruckus
@Aleta:
It might depend on the location of the vets. At the main VA hospital, which I was at a week ago Monday, I, an old white guy, am close to or am a minority. Same at one clinic, not far off at another. From talking to a lot of vets at these three locations, I’d bet that drumpf didn’t get the majority of votes. I know he got some, of that there is no question. Now all that said a lot of vets would like to turn back the clock for a variety of reasons. Not to have been injured in the first place would be my first guess. Second would be to have a do over on life. Now on that note I’d like to discuss a talk I had today with one of my fellow employees. We were discussing the difference in life from the 60s-80s with today. To me the very thing that is an issue is wage power. That someone could, back then, live OK with a blue collar job. That is getting harder and harder to do and for a lot of people nothing is going to change that other than wages rising. There is a huge class of people who are going to have the equivalent of a $40K yearly income for the rest of their lives, and those people are going to be wondering why they work hard and never, ever get ahead. Those same jobs would have given a lifestyle equivalent of around $60k 40 yrs ago. And that’s a huge difference.
Booger
@SFAW: What, now we’re reduced to “Keeping Up With The Cardassians?”
henqiguai
@Another Scott(#88): Long dead thread, but your comment made me look –
You didn’t look far enough into the word origins for “hero” –