While the seven armed occupiers go scot free in Oregon, peaceful demonstrators seeking to preserve clean water and their tribal rights against encroachment by the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL) are being arrested by the hundreds by militarized police in North Dakota.
Attack dogs, pepper spray, water cannons, tanks, LRADs—no defense is too excessive when it comes to oil companies’ inalienable right to despoil and plunder.
Who needs drinking water, anyway?
Energy Transfer Partners claims DAPL is safe as safe can be—which is why it’s so perplexing that Bismarck, ND nuked the original plan for it to pass within ten miles of their city.
Irony, thy name is Bismarck:
This route was rejected in the Corps’ environmental assessment due to its close proximity to source water protection areas, multiple conservation easements and residential areas — the North Dakota Public Service Commission has a 500-foot residential buffer requirement. [bolding mine – HR]
No problem! said ETP. We’ve got some indigenous peoples here we don’t mind further disenfranchising.
Please spread the word – this conflict, and the excesses of the corporate-owned (figuratively and literally) police forces haven’t gotten nearly enough play.
germy
We are told never to get between a mama bear and her cub.
We also see what happens to anyone who tries to get between a corporation and its profits.
Hillary Rettig
@germy: and every once in a while we get a graphic lesson on why the main purpose of the police state is to defend capital, not people
cmorenc
The feds were far to gentle on the Malheur protesters. Weren’t those MFrs armed in order to hold off the feds? That’s the danger of the “NG” verdicts – the feds will now encounter emboldened armed resistance to local private seizures of public lands. No Forest Service or National Park ranger is safe.
However, if juries are going to nullify the law at Malheur, why might this same dynamic not work in the protester’s favor in North Dakota?
Tokyokie
Property rights enforcement is the ONLY legitimate state function in Rand-World. And the distinction between it and a police state is difficult to distinguish.
toschek
Ironic this post following the one about a certain President who apparently has NMFLTG. Perhaps he might see fit to parlaying some of that happy magic to help these poor people?
Hillary Rettig
@cmorenc: yes, exactly. and it feeds into worries of post-election violence
Tokyokie
@cmorenc: Because the trial will be held in a city, and the jury won’t include Native Americans.
Hillary Rettig
@toschek: ya think? would be nice.
The Moar You Know
I just found out about the Malheur verdicts. I am in shock. Yes, I understand jury nullification and agree with the concept. The jury exercised that right. But I would think that those folks would at least have thought for a few moments about what kind of monster they were unleashing on the West.
I guess not.
Heard reports that the Army is helping with the roundup of the North Dakota protestors. IIRC, that’s not legal. Anyone know if the allegation is true or not?
MomSense
@toschek: @Hillary Rettig:
Well the Departments of the Interior and Justice and the Army teamed up to stop all construction after a Federal Judge ruled construction could continue. That was a pretty big assist from the Obama Administration.
Rock the World
The race is tightening folks. Even Nate Silver now admits that there’s a Trump Surge.
Get read for a shock the likes of which the world has never seen on November 8th….
You’re about to relive November, 2000.
NorthLeft12
Full disclosure here; part of my job as a pipeline engineer is to do risk assessments for pipeline routing, operation, and maintenance. Our assessments are done by creating scenarios [leaks, etc.] and then “calculating” their probability and severity of human, environmental, and community impact. Now to be absolutely clear, the impact does not take into account who is impacted, but rather how many are impacted.
Although, since we are near an aboriginal reserve and some pipelines run through the reserve, we do consult with them regarding any work, issues, or changes to the operations of those pipelines.
We take our responsibilities very seriously, and we are all very clear that a failure of a pipeline that impacts our neighbours [including wildlife and earth and water] or employees is considered to be the absolutely worst result that can occur. We don’t consider financial loss or costs to repair/remediate at that same level.
I’m not sure how this ND situation got to this point. We would [and have] literally move a lot of earth to avoid this kind of confrontation.
Emma
@Rock the World: Keep dreaming. Unless you can get the Supreme Court to override the Constitution again, you’ll have President Clinton to deal with. And this one already has NMFLTG
LAO
@Rock the World: Bill Mitchell, is that you? Welcome to a reality based community.
Chris
Ah. The “bookmark it, liberals!” guy from Sadly, No! is back, with yet another avatar. And yet another unstoppable savior candidate.
laura
I’m an old so I may be wrong, but didn’t we used to have the right to assemble, to express an opinion, to challenge the dominant pardigm?
Yep, what Hillary said.
Hillary Rettig
@The Moar You Know: that would be horrible if true. DemocracyNow.org (and podcast) has the best coverage IMHO so I will listen for it there.
Librarian
Oh, great. Now “rock” and “world” are going to be in the spam filter.
Unknown known
@cmorenc:
It might have worked for them very well, if only they’d had the foresight to be w-h-i-t-e.
Ain’t nothin’ to be done about that there poor lifestyle choice of theirs, is there. C’ain’t help some people.
/snark (obviously)
Chyron HR
@Rock the World:
That’s nice. We’ll see you in 2020 when you’re sucking off your next loser.
Hillary Rettig
@MomSense: my understanding is that his order stopped some work but not others, and the company has accelerated the non-stopped work.
Chris
@Chyron HR:
You left out John McCain.
(Did you know he was a POW?)
MomSense
@The Moar You Know: @Hillary Rettig:
That makes no sense especially since the Army Corps of Engineers issued a Special Use Permit to the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe for their encampment in September.
Chyron HR
@Chris:
I only count the ones dickless was pimping on this site. I’m still not convinced he’s the same idiot from Sadly, No! (if so, why the change of venue?).
MomSense
@Hillary Rettig:
The problem is that the Federal Government can only deal with Federal lands. There have been similar issues regarding regulations over fracking. My point is that a lot of effort spent on what Obama, Interior and Justice will do is misplaced. Go after the corporations. Go after the State legislature and Governor. Let’s be smart about this.
Hillary Rettig
@NorthLeft12: Yes, I’m sure ETP has everyone’s best interests at heart. /s
Tell it to the guys who hired the private security goons who sicced attack dogs on the protesters on Labor Day weekend when everyone was distracted, and the police who keep strip searching peaceful protestors.
Oh, and who arrested journalist Amy Goodman for doing her job.
In any case, even if the company itself were not doing evil things in support of its mission, it’s mission is still evil. We all need to keep it in the ground.
Hillary Rettig
@MomSense: do you think the protesters are not smart? (sincere question)
Matt McIrvin
@The Moar You Know:
I’m pretty sure they did think about it, and then they unleashed that mutha with a wink and a grin.
Chris
@Chyron HR:
I presume because S, N! is pretty much dead in the water at this point. I just remember a comment of his earlier in the season (when Jeb! was his savior-of-the-week) that was so blatantly “bookmark it, libs!” that I just went “oh, he’s THAT guy!” Then again, it could just be all these guys read (or copy-paste from) the same “How To Troll” manual.
Librarian
It seems to me that the media is ignoring the Bundy verdict. Rachel didn’t say a word about it last night. It’s as if they want to pretend that right wing terrorism doesn’t exist.
MomSense
@Hillary Rettig:
No I think statements like this
and this
are not smart given the Obama administration is trying in the limited ways it can to help the Standing Rock Sioux. I’ve also seen some idiotic things from join on protesters who are actors and such that are not smart.
Peale
@Rock the World: ORCA will be a game changer!
WereBear
@cmorenc: Might be time for people to read Give a Boy a Gun: A True Story of Law and Disorder in the American West by Jack Olsen
Wapiti
@The Moar You Know: In ND there are elements of the National Guard involved assisting law enforcement for the pipeline; the NG can be mobilized by the Governor for state purposes. (There is a long history of NG being used to crush unions and deal with protests – like at Kent State.) It’s not the US Army, or National Guard mobilized by the President.
Hillary Rettig
@MomSense: He could always make a statement or even show up. And there’s probably other things he could also do if he wanted to spend the political capital.
amk
@Hillary Rettig: Obama has not done enough is a repetitive boring meme from the loony left since 2008. And it distracts from the main point of your piece, institutional racism.
Origuy
@Hillary Rettig: NorthLeft12 is in Canada.
WereBear
The Good Ol’ Boy network isn’t just a southern thing, as the Malheur acquittals show. Everywhere the traitors spread has become infested, as if by a virus.
We didn’t conquer the Confederates. We just sent them underground.
Chyron HR
@Hillary Rettig:
Maybe Bernie should offer to give Obama a ride when he goes out to join the protests.
MomSense
@amk:
It also gives cover to the real villains/assholes in this situation. Why help the bad guys?
Central Planning
Speaking of wingnuts, one of them at the local mom-and-pop diner this morning said Hillary was going to implement a $2500 tax on every firearm in America. It looks like it was an idea to license gun dealers, not individuals for every gun sold.
Fortunately, I had to leave before trying to engage them in a rational discussion. “Obama has been taking your guns for the past 8 years, right? Why would Hillary be any different?”
amk
@MomSense: poutrage de jour is how the left loses the power.
NorthLeft12
@Hillary Rettig: Okay, all I was passing on is my experiences up here in Canada. I have not been following this very closely, but I am gobsmacked as to how bad the situation has gotten to.
I will generalize here about my experiences with US companies and people in management, but there seems to be some kind of belief that it is an expected part of the job to be at odds with, and actually battling against the regulatory agencies that cover your industry, and any private individual or group that is opposed to your plans/presence. I don’t get it.
It’s tough enough to get things done without looking for avoidable confrontations.
MomSense
@Hillary Rettig:
He has made statements but more importantly the Army Corps of Engineers, Interior and Justice Dept stepped in. I really don’t know why you would focus on him and not on the companies, governor, legislature, police, even the manufacturers of the equipment they are using.
JJ
For accurate information follow Sacred Stone Camp, Indigenous Environmental Network and Dallas Goldtooth on fb.
Chris
@NorthLeft12:
I think a lot of American CEOs are socialized to believe that they live under constant siege from the government, the unions, and the public, that all these people are just waiting for an opportunity to pounce and rob them blind, and that because of that they can’t show any weakness and must permanently make it clear that they’re ready for battle. They operate accordingly. Not all CEOs fall for this, but look at the number of people who are telling them this 24/7.
IOW, not that different from the mentality of gun nuts, or out-of-control police departments. I wish more attention were paid to the 1% not as greedy supervillains trying to maximize profits, but as a cultural group with its own delusions, prejudices, and general tribalistic tendencies that are just as strong as they are among ordinary GOP voters.
Soylent Green
@Rock the World: Oh look it’s Right to Be Risible. Your schtick was fun for a while, but so was the macarena. Hire some new writers.
Calouste
@NorthLeft12: Part of that is that right-wingers don’t really understand the concept of win-win or lose-lose. The only thing they get is win-lose, so if the other party is losing they must be winning, and if the other party is winning they must be losing. They don’t get that it is possible for both sides in a conflict to lose, or win.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MomSense:
The left is as frustratingly fixated on big mean daddies as the right – the Bernie/Jill Stein contingent are presidential fetishists.
piratedan
Instead of railing about what the President can and cannot do… he’s not the one turning out LEO against the protestors.
an Identification of the Corporate Entity and their public relations office, a list of the local legislators at the county and state level would likely have a greater impact. Is working or I would apply my own google fu to the issue.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
Well what do you expect, those Indians can hardly be expected to have any ancestors who came over on the Mayflower, right?
WereBear
@Calouste: Absolutely. They are totally Zero Sum thinkers.
NorthLeft12
@Chris:
Up here in Canada we have a word for that; P R O J E C T I O N.
HushNowPuppy
@Calouste: You are making my head hurt.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Rock the World: Good to see you’re a fan boi of a pedo who whored out his own underaged daughter.
Lurker Extraordinaire
I am so mad at this whole debacle I could spit.
catclub
@Tokyokie:
The Malheur trial was in Federal Court in Portland. Why did those city slickers side with the occupiers? Besides whiteness?
burnspbesq
@The Moar You Know:
AFAIK, not a shred of evidence to support that allegation.
Chris
@Calouste:
Which is funny, because their way of selling capitalism usually is that it’s win-win – that by wildly pursuing their own profit and not giving a shit about anyone else, capitalists will make things better for all of us, too. But virtually everything they actually end up doing reinforces the notion that they don’t, in fact, believe in win-win, least of all in economics. For the “deserving” to truly enjoy the meaningful rewards of their work, the “undeserving” have to be suffering.
@NorthLeft12:
Oh, totally. The point of which is to let them be assholes by convincing themselves that someone else is doing it first.
burnspbesq
@catclub:
Because in states where there is only one U.S. District Court, the court makes aconscientious effort to summon jurors from all over the district. If you dig into the reporting on this case, you will find that a non-trivial number of jurors were from outside the Portland metro area (I think I remember it was three).
Miss Bianca
@laura: only if you’re an armed white guy.
Villago Delenda Est
“Armed occupiers” my ass. Terrorists.
Hob
@Librarian: “the media is ignoring the Bundy verdict”
How do you figure? It’s the very first story I see on nytimes.com right now.
(If I had a dollar for every time someone told me there’s a media blackout on something that I can easily find in major newspapers…)
marv
@MomSense:
I was there Saturday and Sunday (I didn’t get arrested). I walked with a group from the main camp to the pipeline site Sunday morning. It was pretty intense – 81 people arrested the day before, a plane and helicopter circling overhead, etc. At the meeting beforehand, it was stressed that this was a big day, intimating a change in tactics. After prayer and singing at the site, a leader announced that it was time to take a stand, to seize (or occupy) the easement there at the proposed site. It was to me an electrifying moment. We crossed the road, formed a circle, held hands and danced as two tipis were quickly erected. This is the point now where arrests are happening, I believe, maybe two miles (I’m guessing) from the main camp.
burnspbesq
It’s interesting how many people are unclear on, or have forgotten, what civil disobedience entails.
The essence of civil disobedience is that you show the injustice or absurdity of a law by violating it. Those folks are going to jail. They accept that. They want that. That’s how it works. And our system allows for the use of reasonable force to effect a lawful arrest. So in the ordinary course, overzealous law enforcement is going to overreact. That’s ok; that’s part of the plan. Demonstrators getting the crap beat out of them is news. Demonstrators peacefully getting on buses is not.
I don’t think any of them misunderstand that. But man alive, far too many folks on the left appear to.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
so, this just happened:
Frankensteinbeck
@burnspbesq:
Yes, but part of that intended system is that we get royally pissed at the brutal excess with which they are treated.
Villago Delenda Est
@burnspbesq: One notes that this concept is utterly foreign to the scum of the Bundy bunch.
Villago Delenda Est
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Too late, Mark. We’ve seen what’s in your heart. Racist asshole.
Calouste
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: The only sincere apology racist Mark Kirk can make is drop out of the race. A tweet means f all.
MomSense
@marv:
Thank you! This is such important organizing. What are the needs there for those of us who can’t get there in person but would want to contribute supplies and funds?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Basically every reply to that tweet are those exact words.
LAO
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: if that isn’t the definition of a day late and a dollar short. lol
Rob in CT
@burnspbesq:
A lot of this is the comparison to the Bundy assholes.
It’s interesting to note how one group is treated and how the other is treated.
The purpose here is to generate outrage. When that outrage is generated… you scold people for not getting how this works?
Calouste
In case irony wasn’t dead already, from the newspaper that did a solid impression of a government propaganda outlet in 2004:
NY Times Editor Swings At Fox News, CNN: They’re ‘Bad For Democracy’
marv
@burnspbesq:
Well, as one old Duke grad to another, I’ll just say I was only there two days, but I was there, and I never heard anyone say they expected or wanted to go to jail. In fact, the leaders stressed beforehand that a goal of Sunday was NOT for anyone to go to jail. As we walked to the site Sunday morning, we were constantly reminded by two obvious veterans of the demonstrations to stay off to the side of the road – the cops in the police car following were going to arrest anyone who crossed the white line. Again, I hardly have the experience to speak for the movement, but I had no sense it was about civil disobedience, more like the other side are the law breakers.
D58826
@Tokyokie: white property rights only
D58826
@burnspbesq: True but one can hope that as a society we have moved past the ‘pettis bridge’ school of conflict resolution. Obviously not.
amk
@burnspbesq: The point here is the where was that “use of reasonable force to effect a lawful arrest” in the bundy case, who were armed thugs and were not doing the “civil disobedience” your style.
Uncle Cosmo
@Rock the World bka RipeToRot: Fuck off & die in a fire, shitstain.
WarMunchkin
@burnspbesq: I don’t get it, you’re saying that we should think it’s okay because overuse of force is part of the system?
Look, I think part of being a liberal means that you keep things like the Kent State massacre in your collective memory, and you work for a government that never, ever does anything even close to that, no matter who is protesting, Snack Team Six or college students with flowers. And yes, civil disobedience is about breaking unjust laws and accepting consequences; but these two ideas should not be in conflict, I don’t get why I should be okay with overuse of force (or use of violence by a protester, which happened today where a Native American woman fired three shots at police).
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Rock the World:
Clinton’s campaigning in ARIZONA next week, and Trump is using campaign money to pay Eric Trump Wine Manufacturing LLC.
TriassicSands
@Librarian:
It’s front page of the NY Times website.
bemused
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Another unapologetic apology. Watching the video, it seemed to me that after he said that he turned to look at Duckworth with a smirk as if he thought he was clever. Mean, ignorant and stupid.
chopper
@Chris:
he’s called every election so far. I mean, look at his record!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@bemused:
The video is way worse then the transcript. He really is just a mean racist dumbass.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: This apology will hurt him worse than the racism with his “base”.
bemused
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Definitely. He looked quite proud of himself. He was probably shocked that he didn’t get some applause for that stupid stunt . Racist dumbass, indeed.
marv
@MomSense:
Again, I was only there two days, and wasn’t an expert on the situation beforehand, but will give you my best opinion. (Also, I think the situation there is very fluid right now) I can’t exactly make sense of the different camps you read about online. I have a friend from Manderson who directed me to the big camp or main camp where his cousin was working for security. This was a big help for me personally, and I can’t identify a site for that camp online. I’ll say this about that camp – it was clean, good food supplies, plenty of clean, well-stocked portable toilets (I’m 64 – that just meant a lot to me) etc. I think the biggest need in terms of supplies may be for really good winter gear. (I have a good sleeping bag but it’s old and I didn’t realize wouldn’t zip up. Had two other good blankets but still was cold that night.) The other main impression I had was that things could seem chaotic at times but that the Standing Rock Tribe, and specifically the elders, are directing the course of the activities. I respect those people a lot. I would donate funds directly to the tribe’s DAPL site http://standingrock.org/
Miss Bianca
completely o/t, but I finally got off my metaphorical ass and registered for this year’s NaNoWriMo. I wonder how many Juicers are planning to participate?
marv
@MomSense:
Thank you – sent a reply but it’s in moderation. I have no idea why but will check back in an hour or so and try again if it’s still not up
sigaba
Oregonian interviewed a Malheur juror.
Shorter: Jury took Ammon Bundy’s representations at 100% face value. Brandishing weapons and destroying property wasn’t “intended” to impeded anything. Because Bundys said so.
hueyplong
Too bad for the lucky defendants that they have another trial, in Nevada. Let’s hope the prosecutors not only go to school on the proof, but also do a better job on voir dire. It’s not too difficult to ask questions in such a manner as to get answers that include tells about whether someone is a RWNJ.
marv
@MomSense:
So been in moderation for an hour – I’m thinking maybe because I included Standing Rock Tribe’s website. so here’s what I wrote before, leaving off the website address which of course is easy to find:
Again, I was only there two days, and wasn’t an expert on the situation beforehand, but will give you my best opinion. (Also, I think the situation there is very fluid right now) I can’t exactly make sense of the different camps you read about online. I have a friend from Manderson who directed me to the big camp or main camp where his cousin was working for security. This was a big help for me personally, and I can’t identify a site for that camp online. I’ll say this about that camp – it was clean, good food supplies, plenty of clean, well-stocked portable toilets (I’m 64 – that just meant a lot to me) etc. I think the biggest need in terms of supplies may be for really good winter gear. (I have a good sleeping bag but it’s old and I didn’t realize wouldn’t zip up. Had two other good blankets but still was cold that night.) The other main impression I had was that things could seem chaotic at times but that the Standing Rock Tribe, and specifically the elders, are directing the course of the activities. I respect those people a lot. I would donate funds directly to the tribe’s DAPL fund on their website
Citizen_X
@Chris:
This. I think the American business class–management and owners–have been crippled by Fox and the whole rightwingosphere. Like the rest of the right, they’ve become reflexively paranoid and have lost the ability to independently evaluate information, and at the same time are convinced that they’re the masters of the universe. How can they make good strategic decisions when they can’t think clearly?
MomSense
@marv:
Ok, thanks. I think donating directly to the tribe makes sense. I’ll also check out the local goodwill stores. They get really good stuff from LLBean.
Chris
@Citizen_X:
I’d love to see a study of how much their political prejudices and preconceptions affect their most basic business decisions. Like, every time a major corporation fucks anything up, Fox News, all their pet politicians, and a pretty disgusting number of ordinary voters are there to tell them that it’s TOTALLY NOT THEIR FAULT, it’s all because the government or the unions or the consumers fucked them somehow. (Therefore, no need for self-examination). Nobody likes to take the blame in the first place, and when the voices telling you not to are so loud and numerous… well, what do you expect?