Mayor Roberts on CNN: "(Those) creating violence and destroying things, this is a small section of our population."
— Théoden Janes (@theodenjanes) September 22, 2016
Police and protesters are facing off in Charlotte this evening in the aftermath of yesterday’s police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. Charlotte Mecklenberg Police have deployed tear gas against demonstrators and protestors. MSNBC has reported out, via Ely Portillo of the Charlotte News Observer, that someone has been shot.
BREAKING: Medic is treating a patient to CMC Main with life-threatening injuries from an apparent gunshot wound.
— Charlotte Observer (@theobserver) September 22, 2016
Here’s the link to WCNC Charlotte’s live feed.
And here’s a live embed:
And here’s a link to Ely Portillo’s twitter feed and to the Charlotte Observer‘s twitter feed.
I’ll update as information becomes available.
Update at 9:40 PM EDT
WBTV Channel 3 in Charlotte has now reported that CMPD Chief Putney has informed reporters that one the person who was shot earlier this evening has died.
#BREAKING (story): One killed during Keith Lamont Scott protest, CMPD Putney says https://t.co/V0bHl582Sx #KeithLamontScott #Charlotte pic.twitter.com/RF1s3aYVeD
— WBTV News (@WBTV_News) September 22, 2016
To confirm, someone has died here after a shooting at a #KeithScott protest. City says it was civilian on civilian gunfire, not #cmpd
— Ely Portillo (@ESPortillo) September 22, 2016
ALERT: Fatal shot uptown was civilian on civilian. @CMPD did not fire shot.
— City of Charlotte (@CLTgov) September 22, 2016
Update at 10:07 PM EDT
Rick Bonnell of the Charlotte Observer has just reported:
Police announce anyone still on the streets subject to arrest.
— Rick Bonnell (@rick_bonnell) September 22, 2016
Update at 10:15 PM EDT
Charlotte’s Mayor has just made the following appeal on CNN:
Mayor Roberts on CNN: "Please go home. Tell everyone that violence is not the answer. The investigation is ongoing."
— Théoden Janes (@theodenjanes) September 22, 2016
Mayor Roberts on CNN: "(Those) creating violence and destroying things, this is a small section of our population."
— Théoden Janes (@theodenjanes) September 22, 2016
Update at 10:25 PM EDT
Governor McCrory has now issued a statement:
.@PatMcCroryNC issues statement on the violent protests in uptown Charlotte #CharlotteProtest #keithlamontscott pic.twitter.com/aIXlsGd0rT
— Chris | WBTV Web (@ChrisDotWeb) September 22, 2016
Update at 10:38 PM EDT
Mayor Roberts on MSNBC has just stated the following:
Mayor Roberts to MSNBC on shooting victim: "We have conflicting reports about whether they have died or whether they are in intensive care."
— Théoden Janes (@theodenjanes) September 22, 2016
Mayor Roberts on MSNBC: "I am gonna work with the chief to try to provide the family with access" to the video of #KeithScott shooting.
— Théoden Janes (@theodenjanes) September 22, 2016
Update at 10:45 EDT
Updated information on the individual that was shot earlier this evening:
CORRECTION UPDATE: Civilian who suffered gunshot wound during protests is on life support, critical condition. Not deceased.
— City of Charlotte (@CLTgov) September 22, 2016
Update at 11:25 PM EDT
I have declared a State of Emergency & initiated efforts to deploy the Nat'l Guard & Highway Patrol to assist local law enforcement in CLT
— Pat McCrory (@PatMcCroryNC) September 22, 2016
.@CMPD orders everyone off the streets or you will be arrested including media they say. #CharlotteProtest
— Brad Panovich (@wxbrad) September 22, 2016
Skerry
Per Twitter:
Joe Bruno Verified account @JoeBrunoWSOC9 13m13 minutes ago
BREAKING: Police Chief Kerr Putney says the man that was shot has died. #CharlotteProtest
Mike J
@Skerry: That will deëscalate things for sure.
Bobby Thomson
A friend of mine is staying at a nearby hotel that is on lockdown.
Mary G
I read somewhere today that the NC legislature just recently passed a law making it illegal for anyone to release or publish the images from cops’ body cameras and dash cameras. Is that true? If it is, I’d be protesting too, although I think violent protests are unproductive. That is some totalitarian shit.
eta: Yep, here is a summary from http://www.nexsenpruet.com/insights/nc-legislative-update-2016-review
EBT
Are we sure it wasn’t the police being trigger happy again?
Skerry
@Mary G: My understanding is that the law you describe goes into effect on 1 Oct.
(I am not a lawyer. I just read this on the internet.)
Omnes Omnibus
City of Charlotte @CLTgov 8m8 minutes ago Charlotte, NC
ALERT: Fatal shot uptown was civilian on civilian. @CMPD did not fire shot.
412 retweets 110 likes
tobie
I know nothing about crowd control and I’m far from NC but judging from what I’m seeing on TV this is becoming a textbook case for what police should not do when confronted with an angry crowd. No warnings are given; no effort is made to have members of the community / members of the police talk to protestors. All the police are doing is showing force and this doesn’t seem to do anything but prompt a show of force on the other side. Rachel Maddow was interviewing someone named Cavanaugh who said the police have learned so much since Ferguson but I have the exact opposite impression. Then again, what do I know…
Adam L Silverman
@EBT: I just updated. The City of Charlotte’s twitter has reported it out as civilian on civilian. Reporters are stating that the peaceful unity protest appears to have been overtaken by a second group/subgroup of the demonstrators tried to rush into the Omni Hotel that things turned violent.
raven
@tobie: That’s right, what do you know?
Feathers
@tobie: Methinks the police have learned that the problems in Ferguson were caused because the cops were a bunch of wimps. #notallcops #toomanycops
Mary G
I need to get off the internet now. I am just choked with rage and sorrow over these things.
Peter H Desmond
listening live at the link you provided, and i hear two local newscasters talking about “half the protesters” not being from charlotte. i.e., “outside agitators,” a phrase that echoes press coverage of the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s.
tobie
@raven: Geez.
humboldtblue
One Ohio police chief has had enough, let’s hope it’s a start.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman:
Seriously, what’s the right way to do things so that this doesn’t happen? I’ve done nonviolent actions before that we had good control over, but those were also pretty tightly choreographed with the media.
ETA: Yes, I know the police are the bad guys here, and I’m not blaming anybody. I’m just wondering what, as a protest organizer, one would do to address this in advance.
Adam L Silverman
@Peter H Desmond: That’s what the local reporter, Ely Portillo, was saying on MSNBC – that there were two groups and one was a group of agitators. He didn’t say outside. That said, other’s are tweeting from the scene that thinks are actually not all that out of control:
https://twitter.com/andygoh/status/778773813538488320
Everything is mostly peaceful. More people here just observing than anything
humboldtblue
@Major Major Major Major: Who says they aren’t cops?
Peter H Desmond
@Adam L Silverman: “not from here” is what i heard.
Major Major Major Major
@humboldtblue: Hanlon’s razor, but it’s possible.
FlyingToaster
Add North Carolina to places I no longer purchase from (to Arizona, from their “papers, please” days). Not hard to do — most of the oddball stuff I need I can get from Vermont (Ladybugs, Nematodes, mason bees) or the Cape (salt marsh hay to wrap the roses). But it really sucks to have a police department without any accountability whatsoever.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: There are two issues. The first is that after spending almost two decades training law enforcement on an 8 stage deescalation model, we stopped doing so. The second is that it is very difficult for even an organized protest or demonstration to control who shows up and what people will do. Remember when the Dallas shooting happened. Everything was going perfectly. The cops and the demonstrators were posing for photos together. And everything went perfectly until it didn’t.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: You can’t control everything, but just like with the black bloc/WTO fuckers out here I just feel like there must be something. Maybe there just isn’t.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Unless you can prescreen everyone who is going to be demonstrating and provide their names and pics of them to the cops so they can recognize those who show up to cause problems, its just something that you have to work around.
Adam L Silverman
https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/778777116934565888
Peter H Desmond
NY Times breaking alert links to this article.
CaseyL
“Outside agitators”? The sad truth is, there are always, always, plenty of local nimrods happy to take advantage of a crowd situation to work out their issues. I have a lot of sympathy for the demonstrators, and none for the parasites who turn up on the fringes to loot and be violent. They’re not part of the community, they’re not there to help the community, and they don’t care if they just make things worse.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, and this isn’t exactly a situation where you can arrange anything with the cops.
? Martin
Well, Charlotte PD needs to realize that they are being driven what happened in Oklahoma. You had someone that very clearly looks like they were innocent be killed. We have video. Charlotte PD claims the gentleman they shot had a gun, but they also refuse to release the video. It is perfectly reasonable for anyone who saw Oklahoma to assume that Charlotte went down the same way and PD is now hiding evidence. It’s perfectly reasonable for them to demand the video be released. It’s completely unreasonable under the circumstances to not release that video.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: No, now you’re looking at entrenched lines. The police on one side, the subgroup of those who are trying to exploit this to physically attack police and others, as well as to commit other acts of violence on the other. And the actual demonstrators and protestors are caught in the middle. And group dynamics and how they give way to mob dynamics are interesting and are almost like a group psychological response.
Adam L Silverman
https://twitter.com/theodenjanes/status/778780326810292225
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: Yep. Not gonna be pretty. Sigh.
Mnemosyne
So, let me get this straight:
A couple of undercover cops shot and killed an innocent man who they thought was their suspect. That suspect is still walking the streets a free man, while the innocent man, who (probably) assumed that a guy in a t-shirt waving a gun and screaming at him to get out his car was a carjacker, is laying in the morgue.
And we’re supposed to feel sympathy for these fuckup cops who killed an innocent man and let the guilty one get away?
rikyrah
@Skerry:
You are correct. Which is why we should see the cop body cameras,
Elizabelle
@? Martin: Agree. It was unnecessarily officious to say no recording would be released until the investigation was complete. WTG, Charlo.
Peter H Desmond
@Adam L Silverman: the mayor seems to be acknowledging that the unidentifiable masked people might be “part of the population,” rather than “not from here.”
hovercraft
@efgoldman:
Unfortunately it probably does.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: That’s a pretty good summary. Well done.
Adam L Silverman
http://governor.nc.gov/press-release/governor-mccrory-issues-statement-events-charlotte-0
Sep 21, 2016
rikyrah
@Mnemosyne:
Wait!
How did I miss that they were undercover?
So, a disabled man sees men with firearms that he doesn’t know approach him, and he is not supposed to try and defend himself?
OMG
hovercraft
@rikyrah: @Elizabelle:
They’re really truing hard to replay the Laquan McDonald travesty aren’t they. The mayor and the DA should take note of what has happened to the DA, Mayor and the police chief. Chicago’s handling of that case should be a cautionary tale not a model on how to keep the peace and instill trust in your population.
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
Isn’t that just begging for more trouble? It’s practically a challenge.
Miss Bianca
But we don’t live in a police state. No…
Adam L Silverman
@Peter H Desmond: They most likely are from the area.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: It never is.
Villago Delenda Est
“Civilian on civilian”.
Well, technically, if the police fired, that would be a civilian too. As the military has no business being in the police business.
However, I would not be shocked if this were a case of an itchy trigger figure, or let’s say some alt-right asshole with an itchy trigger finger.
Mike in NC
@efgoldman: Expect McCrory to start running on a “law and order” platform, just like Trump trying to scare the old white people.
dr. bloor
@Adam L Silverman:
This. It’s especially difficult to keep things calm so soon after a specific event when emotions are running high. This is the other end of the spectrum from preplanned, trained civil disobedience.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: I put it in my post last night. If I’m parked waiting on someone and several people appear to be sneaking up on my vehicle I am going to 1) drive off if possible, 2) use the vehicle as shield – stay inside with windows up and doors locked – for as long as possible, 3) if necessary use the vehicle as the weapon to protect myself.
I think part of the issue here is that Mr. Scott has been reported as having a hearing disability. So even if the cops were yelling at him, he couldn’t hear them. The officer that shot him was not wearing a body camera. Other officers with him were. So there is tape to be reviewed. The Mayor has indicated that she will see it and review it tomorrow.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: You don’t. I don’t. But I don’t think that we live in exactly the same country that some of our other citizens do.
Adam L Silverman
Mayor Roberts has just stated the following on MSNBC:
https://twitter.com/theodenjanes/status/778783694358212608
And:
https://twitter.com/theodenjanes/status/778784427761668098
.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
He’s blah, so he has no right to feel threatened, he is the threat. As per the helicopter cop, I’m sure Keith Lamont Scott was a “scary dude”.
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: Yes and no. Or sort of. The question at this point is that what are the appropriate tactics to 1) allow people that want to demonstrate to do so while 2) protecting people and property while the demonstrations are ongoing. What I’ve noticed over the past several years as these things happen is that the tactical response for these things appears to be to apply an overwhelming footprint to try to smother everything and restore order as quickly as possible. It doesn’t seem to ever work well and I’ve long thought that a set of tactics based on the game of Go would work better. Basically surround and encapsulate and then slowly, carefully, and cautiously create smaller pockets of encapsulation allowing for easier deescalation.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m just posting it as reported. Technically it should have been reported as citizen on citizen.
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
Okay, THAT is deescalating.
Adam L Silverman
@dr. bloor: Exactly.
Adam L Silverman
https://twitter.com/CLTgov/status/778786529640648704
hovercraft
@Miss Bianca:
As long as they keep the ‘violence’ in their neighborhoods then the police will patrol there and shoot when they feel threatened, but once they bring their violence out into the ‘good’ parts of town then they will bring the hammer down and call out riot police and the National Guard to restore order. Murders in on the South Side of Chicago are sad, but let there be any hint of it approaching anywhere near the Magnificent Mile (Michigan Ave.) and you better believe they would shut that shit down. And it’s not even race that’s the biggest factor in that it all about money and power.
Mike J
Michael McBride @pastormykmac
A clergy leader on front lines in #Charlotte asks prayers for Cantrell,shot in head by police moments ago in protest
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: The question is going to be what the City Attorney tells them they can do given the state law regarding this.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: I know, and part of our problem with policing in this country is the police imagining that they’re not civilians, too, and treating their jobs like they’re occupying Fallujah.
Skerry
Maybe the man shot tonight isn’t dead.
City of Charlotte @CLTgov 8m8 minutes ago Charlotte, NC
CORRECTION UPDATE: Civilian who suffered gunshot wound during protests is on life support, critical condition. Not deceased.
Feebog
During an MSNBC interview earlier, the Mayor said it was their policy not to release body cam video or other police video during an ongoing investigation. She also said they were still trying to interview witnesses and obtain other possible cell phone video. While all of this seems reasonable, they still have the possibility of serious rioting on their hands. How about showing some of this to a neutral party who could at least confirm Mr. Scott was holding or otherwise had a handgun in his possession. This would at least tamp down the possibility of violence. The family has said he was simply waiting for his son at a bus stop. Why would he be carrying a gun?
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m going to be very honest here: none of this is how we occupied Fallujah! Even when we were doing the initial responses when the group of security personnel got killed, burned, and hanged from the bridge! The smartest thing that could be done here is to have gotten every community leader early this morning in to meet with city and police officials, engage with them, then have them out in their communities trying to establish the conditions to keep this from happening. And then continuing to engage with them if things did go bad. The two things that should be adapted from what we’ve learned militarily over the past 14 years is 1) by, with, and through and 2) Engagement with the local community.
Elizabelle
Hmmm. Having trouble posting? JCole has put up a pic of Steve looking impatient in a new thread.
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: There was a database connection error or something for a couple of minutes. Try it now.
Steve in the ATL
@Mike J:
I see that you read The New Yorker
Elizabelle
Oh yeah. I got that too. But was wondering if the rest of you got Raptured.
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: I checked both trash and spam and nothing in there that shouldn’t be.
Elizabelle
Only have CNN. Got to say, they’re using their soothing, indoor voices as they report this.
It’s Anderson Cooper. He’s good. I’d riot if it was Wolf Blitzer.
Adam L Silverman
https://twitter.com/PatMcCroryNC/status/778794984912846848
And
https://twitter.com/wxbrad/status/778777870583881728
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: So what you’re saying is that even the Bush-era military did this stuff smarter than our civilian police forces.
I guess I should have used a different example. Say the Wehrmacht occupying Warsaw…
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Gee, she said, bitterly…ya think?
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Just because Bush 43 was President, doesn’t mean that the military suddenly doesn’t know how to do its job. The Bush 43 CIV-MIL breakdown was largely at the strategic level. Both how to transform the national policy and strategic objectives into appropriate theater strategic objectives and the failure of far too many senior officers – general officers/flag officers – to stand up to Secretary Rumsfeld and his immediate circle at DOD. Had more been like GEN Shinseki it would have made it much, much more difficult for the Administration to steamroll the senior officers on the war planning and the all important, but completely neglected planning for after the fighting stopped.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: VDE knows that. He was in the army when Ronnie was large and in charge.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Tracking. I had forgotten.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: So’kay :)
So, the bottom line is the military has better training in dealing with hostile territory in a war zone than our police have at dealing with unrest in our own cities.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Other bottom line: Police in this country should not look to the military for a model. They do a completely different job.
Mnemosyne
@Villago Delenda Est:
For one example, the cop who was recently fired in West Virginia for *not* shooting a guy whose gun turned out to be unloaded was a combat veteran who figured out the guy was trying to commit suicide by cop and didn’t want to oblige him. Unfortunately, two less-trained cops came along, blew the guy away, and then discovered the first guy was right after all.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Sort of. They have a far better understanding of how to operate among a population that can be tipped either towards them or against them by day to day events and the actions of themselves and of the worst elements among those populations. It was hard won (relearned) knowledge as a lot of that experience and expertise was run out and lost after Vietnam.
@Omnes Omnibus: Absolutely 100% correct. Commingling policing and soldiering is a very, very bad idea. That said adapting the concept of Engagement would be a very useful skill set for law enforcement. I’ve taught in services on it a few times for law enforcement and corrections officers.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
All of this has been very unnerving. I’m in Charlotte (albeit on the other end of the city),and it’s infuriating that this has happened yet again. Leave it to McCrony to try to play big bad in the middle of all this. As mentioned above, look for lawnorder ads as a result of this. I hope the video gets out, and soon.
Adam L Silverman
@Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Stay safe!
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: The key thing is that they have taken the time and effort to operate in a population. ANY population. Our police seem to suck at that.
And Omnes is absolutely correct. Police and soldiers have different jobs…but I find it somewhat ironic that when dealing with the locals, the soldiers have a better grasp of what works and what does not than supposedly trained law enforcement officers do.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: The Soldiers have that better grasp because a lot of them got hurt and/or killed for not having it. And because a few folks like me got brought in to help and we had Soldiers of all ranks and cohorts that were willing to listen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: We were better trained. And vetted. During FAOBC, I was a sponsor for a Saudi officer. His wife made unbelievably great roasted chicken. The amount of mint tea and literal hand holding I went through…. After FAOBC, my guy went home. His cousin who had been in the course with us went with us to Benning for Jump School. He drank and was at strip clubs every night he could once his religious cousin was gone. He did get his wings and he was a lot of fun. Point being, one never know and one should know that.
Plantsmantx
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@Adam L Silverman: Roger that!
Villago Delenda Est
@Plantsmantx: The utter scum that is the alt-right in action.
Raven Onthill
The terrorists are in charge.