An example of a failure to think things through?
Sanders supporters shower Clinton motorcade with dollar bills
A group of around 100 Bernie Sanders supporters showered Hillary Clinton’s motorcade in 1,000 single-dollar bills as the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate drove to a fundraiser with George and Amal Clooney on Saturday.
Howard Gold, who lives down the street from Clooney in Los Angeles’ tony Studio City neighborhood, hosted the group of Sanders supporters for a $27-a-person fundraiser. As part of that event, Gold and other organizers handed out $1 bills for attendees to throw at Clinton as she drove by.
This protest method reminds me of when the geniuses at RedState sent bags of rock salt to U.S. Senator Olympia Snowe’s Maine office in October 2009. The rock salt probably came in handy that winter.
I can understand why the Clinton motorcade didn’t stop and hoover up the cash – optics! But did the campaign dispatch a minion to collect the money later? Donations are donations, and every little bit helps!
Hillary Clinton Caps Great Statement with Terrible Closing Line
Hillary Clinton appeared on ABC’s “This Week” this morning. She was asked about Trump’s attacks on her character and made the following statement:
“What I’m concerned about is how he goes after everybody else. He goes after women. He goes after Muslims. He goes after immigrants. He goes after people with disabilities. He is hurting our unity at home,” Clinton said. “He is undermining the values that we stand for in New York and across America. And he’s hurting us around the world. He can say whatever he want to say about me. I really could care less.”
No, no, no, NO! If you COULD care less, that means you care a little, even if it’s only a tiny amount. But you don’t care at all what the hirsute, ambulatory Circus Peanut says about you, Hillary Clinton, so you couldn’t care less.
Oh well. She’s not alone; millions of English speakers make that same annoying error.
Open thread. And fresh sandbox for the indefatigable Hilldo vs. BernBro combatants still scrolling through last night’s loooog comment section!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hey! I was trying to keep the clean threads clean!
redshirt
I wonder how rich Howard Gold is.
But as a Sanders supporters, I’m sure he’s one of the Good Ones.
Trentrunner
“I could care less” works if you say it sarcastically. And most people do.
LAO
I have reached the “rage” stage of this primary season. I now have to physically restrain myself from punching hipsters wearing Bernie stickers in the face.
Roger Moore
Pedantry be damned; at this point it’s an idiom. People know what she means even if the literal meaning of her words is the opposite.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: Yup, i think we also need a waiver on “begs the question”
(Cole makes funny on twitter because he hates his blog and its commenters)
SciNY
Actually both “I couldn’t care less” and “I could care less” are correct if opposite ways to say the same thing. The first one is literal, the second one is ironic. What throws things off is that, over time, “I couldn’t care less” lost its sarcastic inflection but not its ironic meaning. As we all know, especially on the Internet, you run the risk of being misinterpreted when your audience doesn’t catch your intended sarcasm (/s). But that doesn’t make what you wrote ungrammatical.
redshirt
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He really does hate us. It’s weird.
Mike B.
@Trentrunner: I don’t think most people do say it that way. But I’m pretty sure that’s how it became the preferred idiom; people kept using the phrase but dropped the inflection over time.
patroclus
If the Sanders supporters had instead donated those dollars to support down-ticket Dems (like most of the money raised by Clooney), I would have been more impressed. Every little bit would help get back a Democratic Senate (which would confirm the key 5th USSC Justice) and a lesser R-margin in the House (as well as state legislators and governors). Moreover, the likelihood of a 5th Justice overturning (or revising) Citizen’s United would actually accomplish more towards the “money in politics” issue than throwing dollars away on the street would, in my view.
Technocrat
Since it’s an open thread, I thought this was A Big Fucking Deal:
We’re about to find out what happens when you give poor people basic income for life
The Swiss, as always, are on point:
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
I personally demand more of my President than to ever use incorrect English! This is #327 on the list of 1823 requirements I have for a President if they expect my vote; I am afraid Ms. Clinton has disqualified herself with this. Here on Purity Island we only accept the highest of standards and a failure in any area is a total rejection of all things we hold dear and makes you an enemy of the people. I guess I have to forgo my franchise this fall as all have failed and fallen short of the glory of god!
Technocrat
Wow. Nothing says solidarity with the poor like throwing away month’s worth of food money.
hueyplong
“Ironic” seems like spin for “illiterate.”
Guess I’ve outed myself as someone who really, really hates “I could care less.”
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@redshirt:
Can you blame him?
Shell
Our local news is all a-flutter about Tuesday, cause it’ll be the first time in like, decades, that the NY primary will actually mean s something. Same here in NJ in June (Unless Bernie drops out, which I doubt.)
srv
Conservatives moved on from Grammar Nazism after Buckley died.
RaflW
NPR ran a top of the hour piece about Clinton’s very expensive fundraiser (and how she is raising lots of money for Democrats up and down the ticket, played a clip of her talking about House races, the Senate, and Governor’s races and how she is … A Democrat!).
Then that sanctimonious prick Sanders, who wants to have something to attack Clinton for, goes after this fundraiser. How much has Sanders raised to try and undo the terrible GOP advantage in state governors? Oh, that’s right. Nothing. US House races? Hmmm, I’ve been hearing it’s also: zero dollars.
F*k him. Big picture, he is correct that our current money in politics situation is very bad for democracy. But attacking Clinton for raising money to at least have a shot at having a campaign war chest for Dems in range of what the Koch Bros and 5 or 6 other billionaires can raise with one e-mail amongst themselves, that is f*kd up.
Unilateral disarmament in this cycle bakes in a ultra-rightwing SCOTUS for a generation. Citizens United will look like a small plate on the tapas menu of GOP desires.
Sanders may have some lofty moral high ground, but he sucks donkey balls at the real fight going on right now in America. No tactical sense whatsoever. And he is getting at the left wing, motivating them to hate Hillary and sit out November. I am livid. I was flipping off my poor dashboard radio, which is just the bearer of the sad flaccid trombone of Sander’s campaign.
Lamh36
read clooney entire statement on MTP… he seems like a fret Dem supporter and he’s not only thinking of the top of the ticket
Betty Cracker
All of y’all who are trying to say “I could care less” is correct in some sense? You’re wrong. It’s like saying “shoe-in” is an acceptable variant for “shoo-in” just because lots of people make that error. It just means lots of people are wrong.
Iowa Old Lady
@patroclus: Hey don’t you know she’s just laundering money? I learned that on Kos. Somebody make me stop going there!
redshirt
@Betty Cracker: For all intense and porpoise, words mean what people collectively agree that they mean.
ThresherK
Didn’t Chris Matthews say “Al Gore should use irregardless once or twice–it’ll make him seem like regular folks” in 2000.
(Answer: No. But I’m sure somebody was thinking it.)
Major Major Major Major
I saw the headline (on my handy dandy I-swear-I’m-not-a-stalker phone notification system) and expected Cole complaining about something that would be forgotten in thirty-six hours but got this fun little read instead! Yayyyy ?
Greetings from the Japantown festival in SF, by the way. It’s like 75 degrees. Take that, family in Denver!
Also those protesters better hope they picked up that money.
Librarian
@Betty Cracker: Yes. And “I could care less” drives me as crazy as the misuse of apostrophes.
hueyplong
@srv:
“Conservatives moved on from Grammar [] after Buckley died.”
It’s nice when one of his posts can be fixed by changing just one word.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: What line are you trying to force us to tow along? You should stick to inflammable topics that won’t start flame wars.
LEAVE THE CLINTON’S ALONE
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: It’s 75 here in Gondolin too, which is shocking.
Cermet
Give up on the so-called grammar issue of “I could care less”. Remember regardless and irregardless? Now, both are accepted.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Technocrat:
Can we repeat this again and again and again?
pat
So lots of rich folks want to give Hillary lots of money and she is willing to take it. This is a bad thing how??
Nate W.
I thought I was aware of all internet traditions, but “Hilldo” is a new one for me.
redshirt
@pat: Money is bad, m’kay?
redshirt
@Nate W.: It’s the new Ted Cruz approved line of dildos.
RaflW
@Betty Cracker: I could care less about this grammar issue, Betty. Approximately 1% less.
pat
BTW, 82 degrees in western Wisconsin. On the 17 of April. High 70’s the last several days. Dry. Hostas just peeking out of the soil.
I’m lumping the idiots who don’t believe in global warming into the same group of crackpots who believe the earth is 6000 years old and vaccines cause autism. Science deniers.
wmd
I don’t know the political background of the producer of this compilation of Hillary’s changing positions on issues over time. But the material works to paint a negative picture of her. It’s baggage that hasn’t been overcome, and this kind of material will get worse in a general election campaign.
It would be irresponsible not to speculate on its source – my guess is it comes from the Koch brothers.
CarolDuhart2
I dreamed last night that the Republicans nominated Daddy Bush. Yes, he couldn’t campaign or anything, but he wouldn’t do antics and he wouldn’t embarrass downticket candidates. And if worse came to worse, and he actually won, he would be limited to a single term.
As for the money throwers, I hope some homeless person or a maid scooped up that money and is living large this afternoon, having a good breakfast and laugh at the Bernie Brats expense.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@pat: The Clooney bastard was also raising money to launder and then bribe down-ticket candidates (edit), which should be left to grow organically.
Don’t you know? We’re talkin’ bout a Revolution.
Amaranthine RBG
A failure to think things through?
Ha.
I have seen 1/2 dozen stories on my news feed about this. At $1K, that is a hell of a bargain for that much publicity.
redshirt
@Amaranthine RBG: Great publicity too!
Technocrat
@redshirt:
Also, too, “for all intensive purposes”. That’s a favorite of mine. On the other hand:
People obsessed with grammar aren’t as nice as everybody else, study suggests
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Hellelujah and huzzah.
Also too, tow the line. Gnash my teeth whenever that is seen.
RaflW
@pat: Oh, the optics of it! The moral fervor!
Somehow rich liberals and their campaign funds are always suspect.
RaflW
@Technocrat: Or at least have fewer friends.
Major Major Major Major
@Nate W.: The Bernie Or Busters will vote Cruz so he’ll ban Hildo sales.
Major Major Major Major
@CarolDuhart2: Oh my god. I had the same dream.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Betty Cracker:
I will argue, however, that – while incorrect – it can be an effective construction in a spoken situation. Executed properly, the infection makes clear the implied:
It’s extremely hard to pull off, and it’s still incorrect. Everyone is safer if no one uses “irregardless” within my earshot. On a really bad day I might react audibly, and less than pleasantly.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
I really LOVE the tweet with the Hillary hates ponies story! That boils modern American politics down to its ugly, vapid, essence. It went up on FB,
It is funny how certain misusage of the language is like fingernails on a blackboard to me (both the term and the complaint prove I am old!). I hate “Me and Larry are going out” NO! Larry and I are going out not me and larry! There are a couple others but that one is the worst.
The other one, that is now meaningless from abuse, is not grammar but meaning. “There are no second acts in America”. Folks, and encore comes after the performance is done, a second career or a second chance come after the end of something. THE SECOND ACT is the part of the play that explains and builds up, it is the bridge from the setup of the first act to the dénouement in the third act. Americans love an encore or a second chance but we refuse to bother with complexity or details we want to go right from the setup to the end with no texture or background added. So the next time some dick-picture taking Congressman shows up later and revives his career it is not disproof of the old saying. Getting this wrong is 1101 of 1823!
CarolDuhart2
@Amaranthine RBG: And it’s all bad. They look like a bunch of spoiled rich 2 year olds. I mean, would any working class crowd throw $1k of badly needed money away? There’s a lot of places where $1k of real money would be pocketed and replaced with a bag of fake stuff or even slips of green paper (who looks that closely anyway?)
JPL
@Betty Cracker: I hope that Maureen Dowd doesn’t read this column. She doesn’t need another reason to mock Hillary.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: @redshirt: Money is like fertilizer. It works best when spread around. Greed is bad when people are starving.
Baud
What Baud! 2016 could have done with $1000. smh.
LAO
@Technocrat: that’s my favorite too.
My personal favorite is “Babe Ruth through the night” which is what my mom believed was the lyrics of the star spangled banner. (As opposed to “gave proof through the night”).
Technocrat
@Amaranthine RBG:
Have to say, that’s a fair point.
RaflW
@wmd: Compilation from the Koch Bros (or similar), and now making the rounds on FB by my damn liberal friends. Some of whom I am temporarily unfollowing. Still friends, just not gonna want their BernieBro/anti-Hilldo posts streaming by for a few weeks … or months, in a few cases I think.
Cat48
@Betty Cracker:
What’s the proper spelling of rout, as in Obama Rout! He wins 80% in a caucus probably. Is it rout or root? I’ve seen it spelled both ways.
benw
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
WHO ARE YOU YELLING AT?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@RaflW: Um…. actually, I think you mean “less friends”
CarolDuhart2
@Major Major Major Major: Scary, And worst, plausible. A somewhat revered placeholder. The tea party hates him, but what can they do? And he’s old enough that the old grudges don’t really affect him.
Bob In Portland
@pat: Because when someone gives you money, with the exception of J. Beresford Tipton, they expect something back. It may not be something you can see from your perch. That you even ask the question is sad.
Technocrat
@CarolDuhart2:
Ahh, thank you! I was trying to think of the right way to do this sort of protest. Monopoly money would have made the same statement, without the incredibly offputting tone deafness.
RaflW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I believe they all check out at the 10 friends or less lane at the grocery store. Very sad place.
pat
@Bob In Portland:
So what will George Cloony ask for. A night in the Lincoln bedroom?
The Koch brothers are funding campaigns for Republicans. I think we know what they are after.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@RaflW: Sad and terrible. Every time I’m at the grocery store, people tell me I have the best grammar, they can’t believe it, they say “Mr Jim, please use some terrible grammar”, we’re gonna have grammar like you wouldn’t believe, incredible grammar. So incredible it will be terrible. Believe me.
RaflW
@Bob In Portland: Wow.
Are we funding a revolution if we give small, but corrupt if we give big? What is the dollar amount that is the tipping point? I need to know, because I have given/want to give to Dems this cycle to win some f*king elections but I don’t want to join the evil class of quid pro quo donors. That would be oh so bad.
Please do inform what the magical dollar threshold is. Thanks.
schrodinger's cat
@RaflW: $27.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: obviously.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: How is the concrete street going to expect some kind of quid pro quo from the money the Sanders supporters threw at it. Please explain in detail. I think it would have better to give money to down ticket leftish challengers. Why do you disagree? Because you’re a Villager, please explain it to me as though I’m just a stupid leftist from Chicago.
redshirt
Money is unnecessary in the Revolution. We are powered by the purity of our convictions.
The Other Chuck
I always respond “Oh no, turns out I could care less. Like right now.”
John Revolta
@Cermet: regardless and irregardless
It’s like flammable and inflammable. Man, I’m not gonna make that mistake again.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@CarolDuhart2:
Emphasis to suggest that perhaps looks aren’t deceiving in this particular case.
@Technocrat:
Bingo. (she said accidentally)
Major Major Major Major
Aw, my hilarious comment got eated
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
I know when I give money to a politician I expect something in return. But then I don’t give money to people who do not support things I want done. I sure do hate Citizens United and all the damage that money has brought to our nations politics but I care a lot more about the person receiving the money than the person sending the money. This is not hard. There is a good reason that the Koch boys and Sheldon fund Republicans & not the “corrupt” Dems and it is not to buy favors. They fund them because they know those clowns will do what they want them to. As subtle but important difference.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@RaflW:
Clear a $1,000 donation is the act of only the most depraved plutorcat. However a $999.99 means even the ghost of Che smiles upon you from what ever heaven that assassin/girl friend of his sent him. th
Betty Cracker
@redshirt: I take these excuses with a grain assault!
La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
Just got back from a Hillary rally 4 blocks from my house in Brooklyn. Most of the crowd were campaign workers and local (and some out of town) pols. The mayor was there. The tiny crowd makes me worried about GOTV for Tuesday. People in the neighborhood weren’t very enthusiastic.
Iowa Old Lady
Cole’s twitter account is almost entertaining enough to make me go back to twitter.
Major Major Major Major
This is more proof of her mendacity. Her carefully chosen words make you think she doesn’t care, but if you look closely she actually *does*. Wake up, sh33ple!
Also, if you play it backwards, it says “Debbie Wasserman-Schultz”
Major Major Major Major
Figured it out. The word sh33ple sends you into moderation??
Iowa Old Lady
@Major Major Major Major: OK. That’s pretty funny!
oldgold
This weekend is Bernie’s last hurrah. Then, with his overly long 15 minutes having passed, he can resume sitting on the backbench throwing pure spitballs. Right where his sanctimonious ass belongs.
Elie
Bernie has plenty of money to burn and doesn’t care. Throw it away — take charter jets to the Vatican…. Its all pure because HE is pure
Technocrat
@John Revolta:
That is just straight-up semantic malfeasance. It would make a great trick question though:
“Invisible” is to “visible” as “Inflammable” is to _______
Ben Cisco
@Cat48: Whatever are you talking aboot? It’s route.
pat
I thought flammable and inflammable meant the same thing: will burn or catch fire.
eta: not flammable means will not catch fire or burn
or non-flammable. Maybe
eemom
Fuck this stupid argument. “I could care less” is ignorant, and its apologists are full of shit.
Changing the accepted meaning of a WORD over time is an entirely different thing from the idiotic insistence that proposition X means the same thing as proposition NOT X.
It’s like expecting Cole to suddenly started tagging posts I DON’T HATE YOU ALL.
Roger Moore
@RaflW:
FTFY. If Bernie Sanders gets money from rich liberals, it’s OK because they’re individual donors, and because they’re not giving money to other Democrats at the same time.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Iowa Old Lady:
I don’t know, I like Cole but these things always seem to end up sounding like to assholes shouting at each other across the room. Even though he is right it just seems shouty to me.
Iowa Old Lady
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
Roger Moore
@Bob In Portland:
So why isn’t Bernie spreading any money around to other candidates? You know, the candidates he’d need help from if he were to be elected president.
Iowa Old Lady
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): My problem with twitter is I’m wordy and can’t live within the character limit.
Also, posts go by really fast in my feed and most of them are boring.
catclub
@SciNY: also flammable and inflammable
ETA: late to the game, did not read intervening comments.
Maybe inflammable is ironic.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
Why on earth does FYWP hate the word sheeple?
@Iowa Old Lady: Yeah, not much of value can be discussed in >140 characters.
John Revolta
@Technocrat:
Feelin’ the Bern?
Feathers
Meh. The strength of English is that it is a “mercantile language,” which doesn’t have set rules, and meaning is negotiated between the speaker and the listener. Grammar fussiness is as much about a listener or reader refusing to accept what the speaker or writer clearly means (the fusser acknowledges that the actual meaning came across in the making of the complaint) as it is any error made by the speaker or writer.
Life has been so much easier after giving people the benefit of the doubt. And language and usage changes over time. So many mispronunciations come from people only having read something. And most misspeaks are from someone only heard something, not having read it to know the actual words.
J.D. Rhoades
@Nate W.:
I prefer “Hill-Bully.” Better suits people like the commenter I read yesterday who responded to a blog post saying Bernie shouldn’t be allowed to speak at the convention by saying that if Bernie even shows up at the convention, Hillary should have him arrested. Democracy!
But, you know, it’s the Sanders supporters who are the problem.
J.D. Rhoades
@Roger Moore:
You mean the other candidates who aren’t endorsing or supporting him?
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
You can say a lot in 140 characters, but pith requires effort. That goes against Twitter’s immediacy, which encourages speed.
Gin & Tonic
@J.D. Rhoades: If so few current or prospective members of Congress are endorsing or supporting him, perhaps this is indicative of a problem?
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@wmd:
This is good news for John McCain.
Iowa Old Lady
@Roger Moore: I admire people who can use twitter well. Cole is good.
Technocrat
@Roger Moore:
Length : 127 characters
Nicely done!
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@J.D. Rhoades:
No, they mean the ones he would need help from to get shit done if he found himself in the oval office – you know, dirty, filthy money grubbing Democrats
wmd
@RaflW: Regardless of the source, that explains “favorability” ratings.
I personally would rather Bernie get the nomination. I’m donating and volunteering still. And if he doesn’t get nominated I’ll work to get out the vote in the states that Hillary can compete in. Since my home state will vote for the democratic nominee regardless I’ll vote my conscience in the general. It’s a luxury to cast a protest vote and not risk a Trump or Cruz presidency – and as I said I’ll be doing GoTV work in swing states.
I’ve also been doing fundraising for down ticket races among Bernie supporters. Just over $400 so far – Zephyr Teachout
could stand some love if anyone is so inclined. (My page is a “bernfor” page, so if you’re not a Bernie supporter give to her elsewhere).
J.D. Rhoades
@Gin & Tonic: It is, but the problem isn’t with Bernie.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Iowa Old Lady: Jamelle Bouie is one of the few I follow that go beyond snark or quick takes/brief quotes
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes): The most lawn signs I saw in Ohio were a few for Trump. There were a couple for Kasich, and one for Bernie. None for Clinton.
Roger Moore
@J.D. Rhoades:
There were plenty of candidates who didn’t express a preference. Bernie could have tried to win them over by helping them out, but he can’t be bothered to worry about anyone but himself. That’s a terrible mark against him because politics is a group activity. A president can’t accomplish much without support from Congress- something a Senator and former Congressman like Bernie ought to realize.
Renie
@Elie: why are foreign companies or individuals giving to Bernie? And has it become known yet how he paid for his trip to Rome? I didn’t think he was that wealthy or did he in fact use political donations for a non-political trip?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Well, God knows Bernie’s not the problem.
Bernie told Him so.
Iowa Old Lady
@wmd: I live in a genuine swing state. I’ll do GOTV and drive voters to the polls. I take no chances.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@J.D. Rhoades:
The Sanders Rules:
1.) Bernie is always right.
2.) If Bernie is wrong, see #1.
wmd
@wmd:
While you’re donating – Donna Edwards could stand some love as well.
D58826
@RaflW: I have been amazed at the number of articles written by lefties who consider Hillary the worst thing to have happened to the world since the Spanish flu in 10918. And more than a few of those articles put Obama in the same category. Keep it up and they will get to live on Koch Island after the GOP takes over the WH in November.
I did see an article that he is fund raising for a couple of progressive democratic challengers to sitting democratic congressman. Just what we need a primary fight that gives the GOP a shot at picking up a seat.
I still don’t get the ‘revolution’. Yes Bernie has lots of fervent supporters but how many of them will be sworn into Congress in Jan. 2017 to help implement his revolution. The democratic party will work to get him elected but I can’t see them going out on a limb for him when it comes to legislation. After all they are the corrupt establishment that has to be destroyed as part of the revolution. He is a one man band.
Gin & Tonic
@J.D. Rhoades: Of course it isn’t. I oftentimes find myself in the same position, where on some topic I am right and everybody I know or talk to is wrong. It’s tiring, frankly.
pat
That’s a great question. Who paid for that chartered Delta 767? That must have been a chunk of change.
And how does he get along on $200,000 a year? What is his salary? Does he get medicare? Social security? NO INVESTMENTS whatsoever?
I do not understand that tax return.
Lefthanded Compliment
“…I demand an explanation. I intend to hold you to account for alienating the affection of my wife.”
“Affections,” Wolfe said.
“What?”
“Affections. In that context the plural is used.” He lifted his glass and drank, and licked his lips.
Kearns stared at him “I didn’t come here,” he said, “to have my grammar corrected.”
“Not grammar. Diction.” –Rex Stout, Three at Wolfe’s Door, p. 118
Technocrat
@D58826:
I think that’s an important point. People want to vote for good candidates, but they don’t want to become good candidates. We expect someone else to go through the nasty slog of running for office, so we can push the “vote” button and have shit handled for us.
gelfling545
@hueyplong: I don’t care for it myself but I have realized that it just has to be accepted as one of those words & phrases that no longer means what it once did, like specious which used to mean plausible and now means the opposite.
charon
Jeffrey Sachs, Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, Bernie Sanders all connected.
Here some really interesting read:
http://yastreblyansky.blogspot.com/2016/04/is-francis-berning.html
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mike B.: Spoken idioms seem to take over from written ones over time. At least in the USA.
How many people use Quote This is verbatim text someone said Unquote properly these days? Its spoken as Quote Unquote This is verbatim text someone said. Literally, its nonsensical, spoken that way. I haven’t seen it take over the written standard, fortunately.
Or pronouncing the “t” in “often”.
Or say “The point is is that …”
Or use ‘due to’ when they should use ‘owing to’.
Some things about American English just change over time. It’s kinda annoying at times, but such is life. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Uncle Cosmo
@LAO: ¿Jose, can you see?
“Reign in” & “free reign” piss me off. It’s rein, peeps. As in horses, y’know?
Iowa Old Lady
@Uncle Cosmo: I’m a warrior in the losing lie/lay battle.
Suzanne
The one that drives me around the bend is “for all intensive purposes”. NO, UOU FARKING DUMBARSE, it’s “intents and purposes”.
FUCK.
FUCK.
Cannot deal.
Can’t even.
chopper
@Major Major Major Major:
nobody wants to wake up the sheeple.
wmd
A couple of things about down ticket races:
Bernie has started to campaign/fundraise for some candidates. As have Bernie supporters – I’m not alone in my fundraising. He’s not however blindly fundraising for the DNC, etc. Giving to Blue Dogs is not helpful, and the DNC still is putting thumbs on the scales in primaries for Blue Dogs.
Second – if he gets the nomination he’ll continue to have large rallies. There is no way that he would forbid down ticket candidates speaking slots at those rallies. He’ll have coat tails in other words.
I started talking about State legislative races back in July – that the organizing and events centered around a progressive presidential campaign are a useful school and breeding ground for candiates in 2018, and the crucial 2020 state legislative campaigns (2020 is re-apportionment year, and in most states the legislature draws the districts). I’m still saying this – people need to learn how political work is done, learn to have fun with it. Some need to become candidates.
I suspect the Sander’s campaign will bear progressive fruit in 2020 because of this. And it could do so in 2016 and 2018.
chopper
@Suzanne:
irregardless, it begs the question: for all intensive purposes, could i care less?
NR
@LAO: Yes, how dare people have different political opinions from you. Clearly the only rational response to that is violence.
Technocrat
@Iowa Old Lady:
No since in whinging about it. It’s a loosing battle.
/s
Iowa Old Lady
@Technocrat: That hurts.
chopper
@Technocrat:
don’t you mean “its”?
Baud
In fifty years, we’ll all be speaking in emoji anyway, so ?????
AnotherBruce
@J.D. Rhoades: You know, It might just be up to Bernie to make the first step. He is, after all, not a Democrat. If he should somehow win the election he’s going to need the Democrats to help him with a legislative agenda. Throwing some money at important down ticket races is a good start.
RaflW
@Major Major Major Major:
I want to thank you for eliciting an amused snort from me! They have been in short supply for me today.
LAO
@NR: well, I was speaking facetiously. I’m not really a violent person.
Major Major Major Major
You know who else liked orthographic reform…
Germy
@Technocrat: I notice people using the word “weary” when they mean “wary” and I don’t know why. And I always see “loose” used instead of “lose” (“he’s loosing the election”).
Here’s something that confuses me: when people say “next” Tuesday. If today is Sunday, and someone says “I’m doing something next Tuesday” I take it to mean the next Tuesday, which is the next one coming up (the day after tomorrow). Other people use it to mean the following Tuesday after this one.
This Tuesday or next Tuesday always leaves me baffled.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: David Hitler?
A Ghost To Most
@Major Major Major Major:
The French?
/ducks
NR
@D58826:
So, progressives aren’t allowed to run in Democratic primaries, and they aren’t allowed to run on third-party tickets. I guess in your mind, they aren’t allowed to run for office at all? Why not just make it official and pass a law saying that no one to the left of Omaba can seek or hold political office in the United States? That seems to be the country you guys want.
RaflW
Americans are flammable, those pesky Brits are inflammable.
Germy
@Baud: You joke, but I truly believe that in about 70 years or so, the way we write today will look like olde english. The words “though” and “thought” will look weird and Chaucerian to readers of the future. The word “at” will be replaced by the “at” symbol. No one will write “okay” they’ll just write OK. etc.
Baud
@Germy:
I often see it written as just “K.”
Granny Grammar
Cracker should change their name to Deepak and comment full time on quantum mechanics. Being not even wrong is clearly the idjit’s métier.
NR
@RaflW: Gee, if only there was a way to raise a lot of money from small donations. If only there was a candidate who’d done it in 2008 and 2012. If only there was a candidate who was doing it right now.
Nope, it’s impossible. We have to take big corporate checks. But it’s okay, because BJ tells me that corporations love just giving money away and don’t expect anything in return. Throwing money into the wind is a favorite pastime of theirs.
She doesn’t need any help with that.
gene108
@Suzanne:
Well if all the smart grammar people enunciated better people would not make the mistake.
But too often in spoken conversation “intents and purposes” comes across as “intensive purposes”.
We should go back to teaching elocution.
*********************
The most horrible phrase in English is the fact “write in complete sentences” and “write incomplete sentences” sound exactly the same.
A fifth grade teacher said “write in complete sentences” and I heard it as “write incomplete sentences”. And dashed off a bunch of sentence fragments for my assignment.
I got a very bad grade.
I tried to explain to the teacher that I did what you said, I wrote incomplete sentences. She was not amused.
The episode haunts 30+ years later.
charon
@charon:
Watch the embedded video, what a sour old man!
gogol's wife
@gene108:
An old boyfriend of mine thought the expression was “It’s a doggy-dog world.” I still really like that one.
D58826
Sigh. Purity tests? Like it or not there are a large number of pinkish/purple states where you are not going to elect a progressive democrat let alone a self proclaimed socialist. Most of the blue dogs were eliminated from the party in 2010 and 2014. They were replaced in Congress by rabid GOP rightwingers. Mary Landreu might not have been a Kennedy liberal (I assume he was liberal enough?) but she was one of the 60 votes that allowed Reid to break GOP filibusters. Twenty small red states +1 will bring the Senate to a halt.
A politician has ‘coattails’ when his supporters get elected not when he lets them speak at a rally. And I would not count my 2018/2020 chickens before they hatch. The democrats have a shot at taking back the Senate in 2016 but will probably lose it again in 2018 due to an unfavorable election map. The GOP has a lock on the House thru 2020 and unless Bernie gets a lot of red state legislatures to flip blue they will retain that lock into 2030.
Germy
@Baud: Maybe in the future no one will agree to anything. This will make the use of “OK” a mute point.
gene108
@Germy:
How much of it is due to autocorrect?
Baud
@Germy: one can dream.
Germy
@gogol’s wife: Let’s not forget the importance of commas.
The difference between “Let’s eat, Grandma!” and “Let’s eat Grandma!”
Germy
@gene108: But I’ve heard it spoken, as well.
The Thin Black Duke
@D58826: You expect insightful and realistic political analysis from someone who thinks “The West Wing” is a documentary?
D58826
@NR: Depends on the district. A blue dog incumbent democrat in a red state losing in the primary to a progressive will probably flip the seat to the GOP. We all laughed as the GOP/teaparty committed fratricide in the 2010 Senate cycle. It helped keep the Senate blue for a few more years. Itr serves no ones interest to have a progressive win a primary fight if he/she doesn’t have a chance of winning in November.
rikyrah
They can try…but Rafael cannot ‘moderate’ for the General Election.
……………….
Ted Cruz’s Conservatism: The Pendulum Swings Consistently Right
By MATT FLEGENHEIMER
APRIL 17, 2016
On perhaps the defining issue of the 2016 Republican primary, Senator Ted Cruz falls well to the right of Ronald Reagan, who supported granting legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants.
He opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest, and has called for a federal amendment that would allow states to avoid performing or recognizing same-sex marriages.
He wants to return to the gold standard, abolish the Internal Revenue Service and create a tax structure simple enough for Americans to file on postcards.
He has criticized Donald J. Trump on deportation policy. From the right.
Throughout his Senate career, Republican opponents have moved to cast Mr. Cruz as a master of the ill-considered — a “wacko bird,” as Senator John McCain of Arizona once called him — whose seemingly reckless pursuits were thought to place him well outside the mainstream.
Yet a close reading of Mr. Cruz’s policy prescriptions, influences and writings over two decades, combined with interviews with conservative intellectual leaders and Cruz allies, suggest two powerful truths about the man who might yet assume the mantle of modern conservatism.
He would be the most conservative presidential nominee in at least a half-century, perhaps to the right of Barry Goldwater, testing the electoral limits of a personal ideology he has forged meticulously since adolescence.
And he has, more effectively than almost any politician of his generation, anticipated the rightward tilt of the Republican Party of today, grasping its conservatism even as colleagues dismissed him as a fringe figure.
Now, even Mr. Cruz’s staunchest Republican enemies tend to criticize him most forcefully on tactics — lamenting his leading role in the 2013 government shutdown, for instance — but not on substance, where they have generally arrived at equivalent positions.
Tripod
@D58826:
That principled vote for Nader gave us Citizens United. Now that they blew threw $100 million, they’re gonna get sanctimonious about the almighty dollar. OK, that’s a campaign strategy, I guess. So we’ll see how the party feels about it on Tuesday.
Technocrat
@chopper:
Oh man, I don’t screw around with “its” / “it’s”. I can barely get those right when I’m trying. Some weird mental blindspot.
Germy
What is the present tense of “wrought”?
Germy
@Technocrat: For years I always wrote “alot” which I know now is an unpardonable sin. I don’t know how I got into that habit.
RaflW
@NR: Wait, so Clinton is refusing small donations from individuals? Gosh, that’s strange.
And George Clooney is a corporation?
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I spent a week in class with an instructor who could not pronounce a “T” inside any word. “This is impor’an”, it started to get on my nerves after a bit. Good instructor but annoying habit. I know it can be an East Coast thing.
Baud
@gene108:
I think autoerotic is the source of a lot of these problems.
wmd
@D58826:
I notice that you have zero faith in Hillary making a difference with state legislatures. Nice to see you know your history when it comes to DNC foresight.
NR
@D58826:
In case you hadn’t noticed, they’re doing a great job losing on their own.
If you give people a choice between a real Republican and a fake one, they’ll pick the real one every time.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Uncle Cosmo:
I don’t know, Boy Blunder had a mostly free reign for 8 years and the end of the horse W was is not the end the reins go on.
LAO
@NR:
In all seriousness, I’ve given money to both campaigns and I while I favor Hillary, I would vote for Bernie if he was the Democratic nominee. The problem that I have is simple — the Republican party and its candidates, whether national or local, are wholly unacceptable to me. I would rather a centrist Democratic win an election (any election) over a Republican. If that mean accepting and supporting a less than perfect Democrat, I will. It may appear to be a cop out to you, but not rolling back gains that women and minorities have made is important to me.
As is the future of the Supreme Court. Fracturing the “left”, in my opinion, is ultimately very unhelpful.
gene108
@Germy:
Could it be Satan!?!?
Brachiator
HRC just should have said No in response to the Sunday news show question. Her tendency to over explain comes across like a lecturing schoolmarm. And she tries to be weirdly inclusive, but it just sounds like she is hiding her true feelings and opinions.
This is potentially a handicap compared to Trump’s short verbal attacks, and it might not be effective against Cruz, who is smarmy, but a master of standard debate style.
Even though some of it may have been a result of just being tired, HRC was at her best with her concise Benghazi responses.
As for her supposed unforced error, I could care less.
Doug R
Makes me think of this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3gVd1ls62U
RaflW
@gogol’s wife: Snoop will tell ya’, sometimes it is a doggy-dogg world.
Michael Bersin
@RaflW:
In 2000, very early morning after the last night of the DNC on the way in an airport van to LAX to catch my flight back home to flyover country, I became engaged in conversation with a reporter from USA Toady who happened to notice he was in a vehicle with a bunch of sleep deprived delegates. He went on about campaign finance excesses with both side doism as his theme. He told me that the Democratic Party needed to lead the way, since the republicans never would. I replied, “And unilaterally disarm?” He gave me a look of disgust and turned away. We rode the rest of the way to the airport in silence.
Bobby Thomson
@Germy:
When you are referring to a day of the week, “next” means in the next week, not the day in this week. When you are referring to a month, “next” means that month in the next year, and “last” means in the preceding year. Speaking today, “last winter” means the one that ended in 2015. I don’t dispute there is an ambiguity, though, which is why dates work better.
Bob In Portland
Because of the way that Balloon Juice’s threads are designed it is not easy to respond to the various threads here, not that any response by me would have much effect on the villagers here.
Someone asked why Sanders isn’t donating some of his largesse to down ticket candidates who support Hillary? Was this a rhetorical question?
One might ask about how all those huge donations to the DNC that went to the 33 state parties that turned around and sent the money back, eventually wound up in Hillary PACs. I guess that if the Montana Democratic Party sent the money back to the DNC for disbursement that the Montana Democratic Party and those people on the ticket there didn’t need the money. And the same with the other 32 state Democratic Parties.
Now, I thought it was some kind of money-laundering scheme to circumvent donation restrictions, with DWS and the state parties in on the deal. But if we take the 33 state Democratic parties on their actions they didn’t need the 26 million.
But good luck to Tim Canova.
Technocrat
@Germy:
The Comma: Harbinger of Hospitality, or Consent to Cannibalism??
wmd
@D58826:
Are you trolling?
Right, and getting your enthusiastic supporters a chance to evaluate and donate to a down ticket candidate at a rally has no bearing on getting the down ticket candidate elected. It’s not as if rally goers actually intend on voting or what to learn about their down ticket choices.
rikyrah
NC NAACP president removed from flight before takeoff
Posted 6:31 a.m. yesterday
Updated 7:30 a.m. today
………………………………………………..
Barber said a passenger in a seat nearby was talking loudly as the plane filled up and asked the stewardess to request the passenger lower his voice. After requesting assistance from the flight attendant, Barber said he overheard the nearby passenger making “distasteful” and “disparaging” comments about him.
According to Barber’s statement, the passenger said he had problems with “those people” and spoke harshly about Barber having to purchase two seats on the plane.
Barber said he stood up and turned around to address the man before the flight crew gave safety instructions but was asked to leave before the flight took off.
“As I heard these things, I became more and more uncomfortable, especially since he was behind me,” Barber said. “The attitude with which he spoke, and my experiences with others who have directed similar harsh, sometimes threatening words, emails, and calls at me, came to my mind. Because he was behind me when he made the comments and because of my disability, the only way I could see him when I tried to speak to him as one human being to another was to stand and turn around.”
Airport police said no one was arrested.
“I do not know who made the decision, but a plane official apparently called the police, who came to my seat and said, ‘Sir you need to leave the plane.'” Barber said.
The Thin Black Duke
@Michael Bersin: Yep. Some folks don’t even want Democrats to bring a knife to a gun fight.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Germy:
I used to work for a guy that said “mute point” and he was not the sort that would have accepted being corrected. I used to have a list of his greatest hits. He often put stuff in “vanilla envelopes” and wanted to “separate the wheat from the shaft”. There were meetings where it took all I had in me not to laugh out loud.
@Germy:
There is a book something like, “eats, shoots and leaves” that covers this sort of thing
Major Major Major Major
You guys were so close to this not turning into a rox/sux thread…
Bob In Portland
Should Sanders send some of his money to Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s reelection campaign?
(That was a rhetorical question.)
Chyron HR
I agree that English can change over time, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you guys are taking good grammar for granite. In an age where unclear writing is a diamond dozen, being able to communicate properly is a blessing in the skies.
Bob In Portland
Regarding the money-throwing demonstration, does anything presume that the money was left on the street after the limo passed by? Really? Anyone?
Doug R
@D58826: Cook Report sees it very possible that a Drumpster fire or a Cruzader at the top of the ticket could flip the House too. Remember to get all those Republican seats, they had to settle for lower safe margins. Eventually they’ll get overwhelmed and it is very likely this election. Assuming most of the “Bernie or bust” get their privileged heads out of their asses and vote for actual real progress.
Redshift
@Technocrat: Now that’s a movement I can get behind! It’ll be a tough sell in a lot of places (obviously including the US), but with income inequality, globalization, automation, and steadily fewer people required to produce what we actually *need*, I really think it’s the direction the world needs to go in the long term if we want anyone other than the top 0.1% to continue have a decent life.
pat
@D58826:
It’s is a contraction of IT IS. If you can replace it with IT IS, use the apostrophe.
One of my pet peeves, along with Between he and I
D58826
@NR: I reject the assertion that just because a democrat is not a progressive then he/she isn’t a real democrat. The GOP has its Rino’s are we now starting to pick out the Dino’s? There are millions of voters who are not progressives. In fact I’m not sure what motivates many voters. Brownbeck and Jindahl both ran their states into the ground and yet were re-elected. The guy in Tennessee promised to take peoples medical care access away and her was elected. Simply running ‘progressives’ is not the silver bullet. You have to run candidates who are compatible with the district that they are running in. And yes the democrats have not been doing a good job at the state and local level. I just don’t see Bernie changing that.
Bob In Portland
@D58826: Here’s a purity test. Who’s blocking the Warren’s consumer protection law?
Thanking all of you in advance.
wmd
@Technocrat: The experiment was done on a small scale in Namibia.
TL;DR – when people don’t have to worry about food and shelter they become entrepreneurs, invest in education…
It’s costly to be poor.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Blob In Portland:
And we all assume it was a windless day and that the passing limos made not wake so it was a very simple thing to pick up every bill right where it had been dropped.
Also too, how come no Putin love recently? Did he stop accepting your calls? Didn’t send flowers on your last birthday? I imagine we all miss those righteous rants where you let us all know we were Nazi sympathizing baby killers for not being 100% pro-Putin. It made us love hearing from you
Bob In Portland
@D58826: Well, real Democrat is kind of silly. It’s like saying the guys in the Temptations who are touring county fairs this summer are really the Temptations.
The Democratic Party no longer serves the interests of the working class. It works for the people who finance them. That is it, folks.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Bob In Portland:
So they are fully funded by the gays & women seeking healthcare and immigrants who don’t want to be assaulted? Well that and people who still want some worker protections in place and a living wage and available healthcare and clean air and water. But other than that what have the Romans done for us?
What is the color of the sky in the fucking world you live in moron? Here on Earth were we have to deal with some number of Republicans our sky is blue
D58826
@wmd: Well I’m not sure how successful she will be in flipping the state and local elections. I suspect in purple states she will have some luck but in red states not so much. It is still a defensive election. Retain the gains of the post new deal era and solidify a leftward tilt to SCOTUS. It took a generation for the democrats to dig themselves into the state and local hole that they are in and it will take a generation to dig themselves out. The problem the democrats/progressives have is the way the votes are distributed. In Penna. they win big in Philly and Pittsburgh and lose the rest of the state. I don’t know how you fix that
jl
@Baud:
” What Baud! 2016 could have done with $1000. smh. ”
Would Baud! 2016! even sober up in time for the hangover, let along the inauguration? That is a lot of beer.
Those Bernie jerks think they are so hot with their average contribution of $27. The average Baud! 2016! contribution of 27 cents outside convenience stores has that beat by a mile. Baud! 2016! the real common person’s candidate.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Bob can’t be wrong, he can only be wronged.
Linnaeus
@pat:
75 degrees today in Seattle. Might get into the 80s tomorrow and Tuesday.
Linnaeus
Big win for St. Louis Blues at Chicago. Now they’re up 2-1; they just might be for real this year.
Bob In Portland
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Hmm. Let’s say it was a thousand dollars and say 950 were collected after the limo passed. That’s fifty bucks for a pretty reportable incident of political theater. I’m guessing that if they just used posterboard and paint to voice their displeasure of Hillary and her connection to big money as the limo drove by, it would have cost at least as much and wouldn’t have been as effective.
You probably think that people on food stamps shouldn’t be able to use them for their children’s birthday cakes, right?
Another thing: When you call me “Blob” you really lower the level of discourse. It’s childish namecalling, something that should have been passe when you reached eighth grade. How many points do you think you scored from that inanity? Did it make you feel better? Granted, in a village where people are unable to connect political donations with subsequent actions of politicians, there isn’t a high bar around here these days. But try, parmesan.
Mayur
@Germy: is that a trick question? “Wreak” seems pretty obvious.
D58826
@Bob In Portland:
well the working class Reagan democrats certainly decided that the GOP had their interests at heart. I wonder if there is any buyer’s regret? Maybe that explains Trump.
jl
I will spend my blog break this afternoon looking at the rhodo… rodha… whatever they are flowers post below.
I don’t know what my folks did to the azaleas and rhod rodha rodos in their yard this year, but it worked. Can’t even see the foliage for the flowers. Amazing and beautiful display.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Serious question: Are you a communist, Bob?
Gator90
Was just watching Ted Cruz’ town hall. He is a very talented politician, so slick that owlshit is sandpaper compared to him. Democrats underestimate him at their grave peril.
Technocrat
@wmd:
That was a great article.
Chyron HR
@Bob In Portland:
Whereas “Ukrainian fascist” is very high-brow name-calling, and should be encouraged.
Bob In Portland
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Not sure what you are talking about. Who is they? What is they? Fully-funded? What are you talking about? Are you demanding that Sanders turn over money he raised for his presidential campaign to charities because what reason? How much money from the Clooney fundraiser is going to gays and women seeking healthcare and immigrants not wanting to be assaulted?
Considering that you resorted to childish namecalling and are now babbling incoherently, you might want to step back and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
wmd
@Technocrat: thanks – I recognized it as worth saving when I first read it. I’m not sure how I got pointed to it any longer.
When human potential is consumed with providing basic needs it is repressed. This bothers me, and tells me there are failings in our economic/financial system. Basic income worked in Namibia, and it will be interesting to see what happens in Kenya.
Of course the free market absolutists will ignore experimental evidence and scream about market distortions.
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
Mad at someone for stealing your m.o. Bob-O?
Bob In Portland
@Chyron HR:
Do you mean the Ukrainian fascists who were imported into the US and Canada by the CIA under various programs in the late forties and fifties? Or do you mean the Ukrainian fascists the US used in the Maidan coup? Do you mean the Ukrainian fascists who killed a million Jewish Ukrainians, or Ukrainian fascists who think that Russia is part of the International Jewish Conspiracy? As opposed to homegrown American fascists? You see, Chyron, you should have read that Nation article two years ago. You could be more accurate in pinpointing which Ukrainian fascists you are referring to.
When Russ Bellant published his book 25 years ago it was Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party. Why was it then restricted to the GOP’s relationship with Nazis, while Russ Bellant is now referring to Obama’s State Department? Any clue, Chyron? Oh, that’s right. You didn’t read any of that.
Uncle Cosmo
@D58826: There’s an outbreak of Spanish flu near Chester, NY??
RUN!!!!!
Bob In Portland
@Cacti: Heh heh heh. Yeah, Cacti. I’m jealous of all the wit it took to come up with “Blob”. Just like I’m jealous of your keen insight into politics.
bemused senior
@pat: I posted this on a thread after Bernie’s return dropped, but one interesting thing I found was Jane’s consulting income. It comes from being an alternate representative for this commission, which oversees the low level nuclear waste disposal sent to Texas from Vermont and Maine. Which was not a good story for Bernie. I suspect the delay in releasing his other returns also hinge on Jane Sanders’ income, such as her golden parachute from Burlington College.
debbie
@Suzanne:
I had to review a letter last week where the writer wrote, “We’ll refund your application fee as a curtsey.” Took a few minutes to stop laughing.
Cacti
Oh shit, now you’ve got him ranting about his hero.
In the world of Bob in Whiteflight-ville, Putin is a progressive.
MomSense
@wmd:
I could care less. ?
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
Who called you Blob?
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: You asked me this about three or four weeks ago. I answered you then.
No.
Do you really believe that there is no connection between campaign donors, their recipients and the outcomes of legislation that is of interest to the donors?
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
What if they donated in roubles instead, Bob-O? Would that cleanse the money of the taint?
JGabriel
Betty Cracker @ Top:
I’m with you on this one, Betty. That error annoys the heck out of me too. Oh well, in terms of sins against the English language I see committed on a regular basis, it’s far from the worst – so, I endure.
WaterGirl
@Technocrat: I had a boss who used to say “Necessity is my mother’s invention”. I just laughed.
henqiguai
@John Revolta(#96):
No, that’s the Clap.
different-church-lady
Shit.
[sigh]
Is it too late to reconsider O’Malley?
Brachiator
@Bob In Portland:
So, does this mean that the people who give $27 to Bernie are not really pure, but believe that they are entitled to get influence at bargain basement prices?
Mandalay
@Tripod:
If you must scapegoat, at least pick the right person: Al Fucking Gore, who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
It’s absurd to blame Nader for Gore being a mediocre campaigner and a shitty candidate who threw the presidency away.
Bob In Portland
@D58826: Absolutely. It’s a process that repeats. When people’s general social security (in broad terms, not just the federal program) is threatened, weakened, taken away, those people have two choices: either find a political party that represents your interests or go with the fascist alternative.
How has the average American done over the last fifteen years? Who are the primary donors to the Clinton campaign? How’d they do over the last fifteen years?
Bob In Portland
@Mandalay: Exactly. I predict at the end of this decade posters here at Balloon Juice will be blaming Sanders for that nuclear exchange between the US and Russia. Granted, the internet will be a little spotty then.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@NR:
I’m OK with that.
I’m going to remember progressives and 2010 for a very, very, VERY long time.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: You need to give money to Bernie because he’s the only candidate who will get money out of politics.
Bob In Portland
@Tripod: I hear that upstate they are cutting the hours of voting. Wonder why?
Technocrat
@WaterGirl:
I, uh, think you may have been working for a primeval godling.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: He turned me into a newt!
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady: No, give money to Hillary. The millions showered on her have no effect on her at all.
different-church-lady
@Cermet:
Accepted by what authority?
Cacti
@Mandalay:
Rubbish.
Nader campaigned on there being no appreciable difference between Dems and Reps. To believe this is correct, Nader voters have to assume that a President Gore would also have:
-Ignored the PDB entitled “Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.”
-Ginned up public sentiment for another hot war in Iraq
-Instituted a torture program on the advice of John Yoo
-Made Guantanamo Bay into an extra-constitutional prison with secret military tribunals
-Slashed taxes while pursuing a war on multiple fronts
-Added an unfunded Medicaid prescription drug benefit with no cost negotiation mechanism
-Appointed John Roberts and Samuel Alito as SCOTUS members
-Made a complete hash of the Katrina relief efforts
16 years later, and his same idiot acolytes (Sarandon, Robbins, Moore, etc.) are singing a new verse from the same stupid hymnal.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Bob In Portland: You’re not referring to this are you? StevenD does it again. Really Bob you should just stay over at Booman’s there’s no point coming here, most of us still have our sanity.
Technocrat
@Bob In Portland:
Not if we pick them up off the street.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: In my opinion, giving money to either of them is a waste of it.
Bob In Portland
@Brachiator: Your point? Are you saying small donations equal big donations? I sent money to Sanders because I like his political positions. I presume Wall Street banks sent their money to Clinton because they like her political positions. Where is your disconnect?
Gator90
@Mandalay: I don’t blame Nader. I blame the dumbasses who voted for Nader.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: I really don’t. Have you contributed to the Sanders campaign? If so, do you believe he has any obligation to meet your specific requests?
Technocrat
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Isn’t that the second retracted post Steven D. has done so far?
I used to love Booman’s.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Technocrat: At least the second.
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
And he thanks you for helping him and his family take a $600,000 day trip to Rome to stalk the Pope.
Good thing money hasn’t changed him. ;-)
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Bob In Portland:
So what time is it there in Novorossisk, Bob? Shouldn’t you be putting down the pertsovka and bedding down for the evening?
NR
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Just curious, are you also going to remember black voters for 2010, considering they didn’t turn out at 2008 levels either? Or is it only progressives (and I would assume, only white progressives) who you’re nursing a grudge against?
xian
@Betty Cracker: it may have formed as a lazy erosion (happens in language) but I believe most hear it in the spirit or “I could probably care less (but I don’t).”
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: Then you are very naive. If money doesn’t affect politicians, legislation and outcome there would be no reason to give to them. But some people believe in God, you believe in the immaculate reception of campaign donations.
xian
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): yah that’s how I hear it. BTW they gave up on “spit and image” before I was born.
Brachiator
@Chyron HR:
Great stuff. Granted, blog commenting is informal. Few proofread, edit, spell check, revise before posting. And there is always that debbil autocorrect.
But a lot of people are lazy and aggressively stupid. They hated school and silly rules and hide behind the cry, “you should understand what I meant.” And have a hissy fit when anyone suggests, “Well, sorry I apologize. But I really was not quite sure what you meant when you wrote that thing you wrote by rote. Please don’t get overwrought. “
xian
@eemom: yes because language is logic. the fact this upsets you so much makes it worth it. reality must be painfully imperfect for you.
Bob In Portland
@NR: The DNC backs DINOs. Not only is it hard for a progressive, or a real Democrat, to vote for a faux Dem. It’s impossible to get independents to vote for a faux Dem.
And, quite honestly, if the Democrats run a bad candidate no one of any political persuasion is required to vote for her or him.
How’s DWS doing this year? Another great crop of candidates?
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Why did you give money to Sanders? Aren’t you part of this corrupt system, Bob?
Mandalay
@Cacti: Instead of driveling about Nader’s campaign you should scrutinize Gore’s campaign. He was a lazy, pompous and ineffective campaigner, who threw Clinton under the bus instead of embracing him. Gore showed no interest in fighting for victory, and while I am not pleased that he lost he thoroughly deserved it.
All this “elder statesman” and reverence for Al Gore is bullshit. He should have been slung out of the party for his mediocre performance. He couldn’t even be bothered to pretend that he cared about winning, and voters saw that. Gore was an awful candidate. If it makes you feel better to blame Nader then have at it, but Gore lost because of Gore.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Bob, do you know who Richard Gold is? Do you know his net worth?
redshirt
@Mandalay: While mostly true, he would have won regardless if not for Nader. Florida was that close, and that was the difference in the election.
Bob In Portland
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: What’s with the Cryptofascist stuff? If disagreeing with your worldview reduces one to being a Russian then why bother with the crypto stuff? It’s like it’s 1952 all over again, and you’ve just gotten back from the pumpkin patch. You’re not hiding anything. Hey, others here use “fellow traveler” and ask me if I’m a communist, so you should be comfortable with calling yourself a fascist.
NR
@Mandalay: Don’t be silly. Whenever Democrats lose an election, a progressive is always to blame. Always.
So sayeth the modern Democratic party.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
Whatever helps you sleep about your vote back then, cupcake.
JPL
@Mandalay: MSM didn’t help Gore. They decided early on that Bush was the one to have a drink with at a bar. Gore excelled at debates, but it didn’t matter. MSM decides the authentic one.
Cacti
@NR:
And leftier than thou Dems never lose by running to the left.
Just ask Russ Feingold.
Brachiator
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
People say and write mute point because they have rarely read it anywhere. Fewer students probably participate in moot courts. It’s odd. The Internets encourages writing and reading of posts, but more and more I hear people say that they don’t read books or magazines or web sites with long articles. So people are less likely to encounter a range of well written and well edited work, which reinforces errors in speaking and writing.
Also,for a lot of reasons, I think we are becoming a more verbal culture. Technology allows this. And there is a trend to cast off traditional spelling and to spell words the way we think they should be spelled, based on how they sound to us.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@NR:
Let be be more clear – I’m talking about Mumia-loving, Kos-posting, uber-pure ideologues for whom life is always about the class struggle. They may be lazy fucking white kids with dreadlocks, they might be aging sociologists inhabiting academia in Manhattan, Berkeley or Boston. In any event, they’re stupid fucks who live so far away from the common toils of life that they might be aliens. They understand nothing about perspective or common goals.
They’re the ones who did a great job of sniping from the left and helping diminish turnout.
And no, if your beloved Sanders wins, he gets neither my money nor my vote. Two months ago, I’d have said the opposite, but I’ve come to find the man repulsive in his lazy thinking, the supporters he attracts and the recklessness of what his agenda is.
Fuck Bernie Sanders, in the ear.
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: If they’d counted all the votes in Florida Gore would have won. You have to forget about how shitty a candidate Gore was, how corrupt Florida government was, how corrupt the Supreme Court was before you get to Nader.
And if someone would rather vote for Nader than Gore, that goes back to the quality of the Democratic candidate once again. But look at it this way. Your candidate for this election cycle voted for the wars that the winner of 2000 schemed up.
Bob In Portland
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: There are that many aging sociologists?
ruemara
@J.D. Rhoades: You seem fairly smart, but Bernie affects many in a negative way. This isn’t about endorsements, this is about Party. Sanders has agreed to fundraise for the party, he hasn’t. That’s it. You don’t like, it, don’t run on the party ticket. And frankly, I have yet to see as much nonsense from the die-hard Hillary Clinton fans, than the nonsense coming from Bernie fans. Suddenly, you don’t know what party support is about? Jesus.
NR
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
So… you’re blaming the decrease in black turnout in 2010 on these people?
Do you really think people like this have a lot of influence with black voters?
Good to know where you stand at least. I have to say, you’re a perfect example of the modern Democratic party.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Bob In Portland:
Being Russian, you don’t get American irony.
Especially irony which draws on older Soviet/Marxist/Maoist/Juche accusatory ideological memes as they apply to Sanders.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay:
Gosh, that seems familiar somehow…
Brachiator
@Bob In Portland:
Unless you are an eccentric philanthropist, you sent money to Bernie because you expect him to vote your political interests. Politics ain’t no charity. You’re being foolish if you expect anyone to believe that $27 represents virtue, but $150,000 is evil.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@NR:
*shrug*
Kicking progressives in the face repeatedly is what I do.
redshirt
@NR: Serious question: Is the Democratic Party too centrist/rightwing for you? If so, what options do you have?
Mandalay
@redshirt:
But that doesn’t make it Nader’s “fault” that Gore lost. Nobody argues that it was Perot’s “fault” that Bush One lost to Bill Clinton just because Perot made Bush’s life miserable for a while.
Third party candidate are under no obligation to do favors for those they are running against. Gore fucked himself by running an awful campaign.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: The difference is that Sanders gets a lot of small donations. Therefore people expect a lot of small things from him.
NR
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: But you still haven’t answered the question. Do you also blame black voters for the 2010 election results, considering they also did not turn out at 2008 levels?
If not, why not?
redshirt
@Mandalay: I think Perot was a very big factor in losing that election for Bush Sr. 3rd parties in our system are always detrimental to one of the two major parties.
Elizabelle
@redshirt: re Florida: And never forget Palm Beach County’s butterfly ballots, whereby over 4,000 people voted, in error, for Pat Buchanan. A lot of them elderly Jews. Horrible ballot design. Up to 19,000 votes might have been discarded for double-voting, since the ballot was so confusing.
P. Buchanan, laughing, on election night: “those aren’t my voters.”
Theresa LePore rolled the ballot out without sufficient testing. And somehow those miscast votes never make it to the popular narrative. Why is that?
http://www.asktog.com/columns/042ButterflyBallot.html
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@NR:
Yeah, I’m a Democrat. I support Democrats, not some idiot socialist who’s been in the party only since 2015, a guy who does nothing but rag on Democrats.
Every time he opens his pie hole, he alienates more Democrats.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@NR:
I don’t blame them for not coming out. All the “pernicious blue dog” bullshit had a dampening effect on GOTV efforts that year.
Gin & Tonic
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: You know nobody actually drinks pertsovka, right? It’s just to sell to dumb tourists.
NR
@redshirt: Yes, and not many right now, at least not in the short term. Long term, though, I think things will have to change eventually. 36% of voters were registered Democrats in 2008, today it’s 29%. Independents were 35% of voters in 2008, today they’re by far the largest bloc with 42%. Today, the Republicans have full control of the government in 23 states and share power with the Democrats in 20 others. Democrats have complete control in only 7 states.
If the Democrats keep going the way they are, they’ll cease to exist as a viable party in ten years, regardless of whether Hillary manages to squeak out a win in November. The real fight then will be for what party will take their place.
Technocrat
@Mandalay:
That’s the standard theory on the Right:
We on the left tend to disagree, but that may be because we like to argue that Clinton won on the merits.
NR
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: So why do black voters get a pass, but progressive voters don’t?
And why is it that, despite the fact that there are many black voters out there who consider themselves progressives, your anger is only directed at white progressives?
Brachiator
@JPL:
Sorry, the media ain’t that powerful. And they will never be the Deus ex machina that can swoop down and get ordinary mortals to accept their divine judgments.
Nor is it true that Gore excelled at debates. Debates are not just the verbal transcripts. It is an opportunity for candidates to appear before the people and to give them a sense of who they are. Candidates who appear to be down to earth often have an unfair advantage.
Gore seemed stiff and unsure of why he wanted to be president. And he seemed to want to disconnect himself from the administration in which he had served as VP. He was articulate and knew his stuff, but that was not the whole picture.
Cacti
@NR:
Black voters can’t be progressive?
redshirt
@NR: What do you hope to see happen? Bernie’s running as a Democrat, so he’s still using that machine which you’ve pointed out is dying.
NR
@Cacti: I know it’s hard, but try reading the whole comment next time before replying. It was only one extra sentence.
Technocrat
@NR:
An important thing to remember about Independents is that their slate of choices is restricted to one of the major party’s candidates. Independents leaving the Democratic or Republican parties just means that slate is chosen by ever more partisan party members.
When Independents field a candidate of their own (is that possible?) I’ll agree that the two major parties are in trouble.
Mandalay
@redshirt:
Maybe so, but my point was that I have never seen anyone argue that it was Perot’s “fault” that Bush lost, as though Perot was culpable of some heinous act (even though it was alleged that Perot hated the Bush family). It was understood and accepted by sll that that is how it goes in the big leagues.
But when it comes to Nader/Gore some here have a deluded fantasy that Nader was under a strict obligation to help an opponent who was running one of the worst presidential campaigns of the past 50 years. And because Nader didn’t do that it was supposedly Nader’s “fault” that Gore lost. It would be laughable, except that is exactly the mindset of some here.
Cacti
@NR:
I’m sorry the negros have been oppressing you.
It must be rough.
Is there ever anything that isn’t their fault?
I remember when prop 8 passed in California, and the first reaction of the white left was to blame the black people who make up about 6.5% of the state population.
gene108
@Mandalay:
Gore’s problem, and Kerry’s too, in competing with Bush, Jr. came down to money.
Bush & Co had something like a 2:1 fundraising advantage.
In the autopsies of both campaigns, they both had trouble responding to Rovian attacks because they did not have the money to match Shrub dollar for dollar.
You could battle attack ads in Florida or you could battle attack ads in Ohio, but not both.
And if Gore won in 2000 he would be the first Presidential candidate to raise less money than his opponent and become President, since they started tracking this stuff in the 1970’s.
NR
@Cacti:
You know you’re not even very good at this, right?
NR
@Technocrat: In the short term, you’re right.
In the long term, this kind of mass exodus from the two major parties means there’s an opportunity for a third party to supplant one or even both of them. It’s happened before.
Cacti
@Technocrat:
In 2012, Romney won the vote of self-described “independents” 50-45 nationally, and in the states of Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, and Nevada.
I’m disinclined to believe that the majority of independent voters are disgruntled lefties who are mad that Dems aren’t liberal enough.
Cacti
@NR:
That wasn’t what your mother said.
redshirt
@gene108: Good info. The Dems should do everything they can this election to raise as little money as possible, in the name of purity.
NR
@redshirt: What I would like to see happen is for the Democratic party leadership to be ousted and replaced with leadership that actually cares about voters and not their corporate donors. Bernie Sanders tried to do that, but he obviously wasn’t the right candidate. But that would be the most painless option.
Failing that, the party will go the way of the Whigs, and I’d like to see a genuine progressive party take its place. The opportunity is there, but it’ll be a hell of a fight.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@redshirt:
Clearly making a better example for all to emulate.
To Purity!
redshirt
@Mandalay: I’ve always attributed Perot’s run as the reason Clinton won in 1992. I was just happy with the result so no need to “blame” Perot for the outcome. But Republicans do, and rightly so.
That said, Perot was a far more serious candidate then Nader ever was. Heck, Perot came in second in Maine in 92. Nader never even got close to those numbers.
NR
@Cacti: Okay, that one got a chuckle out of me. I give it a solid 5/7.
Technocrat
@NR:
Yeah. In the long-term, I agree.
@Cacti:
TBH, I don’t even have a theory for why someone would go Independent. They’re going to vote for a Republican or a Democrat anyway. Maybe they like gay marriage in on-years and restricting abortion in off-years? Fucked if I know.
Technocrat
@NR:
Why do you think the Green Party isn’t gaining traction? They would seem to occupy the sweet spot you’re describing.
redshirt
@NR: Do you think the Republican Party is also close to breaking up?
And generally, given that the USA is the only superpower in the world and is basically a global empire, do you think some rejection of that status is immanent?
Cacti
@Technocrat:
I think the Greens’ positions on use of private property will prevent them from ever being more than a fringe party in the US.
gene108
@Brachiator:
No, but spending 8 years breathlessly repeating every lie that came up about the Clintons, and by extension VP Gore, they helped sow the seeds of Bush, Jr. running on a platform of “restoring honor and integrity to the White House.”
The constant drumbeat of these scandals hurt Gore’s reputation.
The Clinton/Gore ticket, in 1992, carried Georgia, Louisiana, and other southern states, we consider Republican strongholds today. And of course, they won their home states of Tennessee and Arkansas with ease.
Why didn’t the press take a more skeptical view of the right-wing lies about the Clintons role in Whitewater?
And for that matter, why was the media harassing a sitting President about 20 year old failed investment?
And why did the media refuse to look any closer at Bush, Jr’s string of failed businesses? Why did the media accept the framing that Shrub was going to be the country’s “first CEO President”, without checking out, if he was an effective CEO or not?
If you think the media did not and does not continue to tilt the field in favor of Republicans, I want to sell it you some bridges.
Technocrat
@Cacti:
You think? I’m not sure the most committed of our revolutionaries love private property all that much. I’d at least expect the Greens to soak up the disaffected Left.
NR
@Technocrat: The Greens are not a perfect party by any means, and I think their name is still tainted by people blaming them for the 2000 election. I don’t think they’ll be the ones to take the Democrats’ place.
Miss Bianca
@Technocrat: Oh, Christ. This. A thousand times this.
BTW – completely o/t (oh, no, a comics reference, and it ain’t even late night yet!) – Are you a Flaming Carrot fan, by any chance?
gene108
@Technocrat:
As the American electoral system is geared for people to look at a candidatefirst and the Party platform second, people vote for the candidate they prefer.
They do not connect the mild seeming Republican, on the ticket, to be in cahoots with the Bible thumping anti-abortion crowd.
Second, a lot of Republican bad behavior disproportionately impacts the poor. If you do not know any poor or lower middle class folks, you just do not connect how Republican policies actually hurt them.
The upper middle class, if they are impacted by Republican policies, can afford to absorb the extra cost of college tuition, or make sure their kid is not negatively impacted by increases in class size by hiring tutors, for example.
Not everyone is equipped to care about things outside of their own experiences.
NR
@redshirt: WRT the Republicans, I think it depends on what happens in November. If Hillary wins, they’ll stay united in opposition to her. If they win, I’d expect to see some serious fractures. I don’t think Donald Trump or Ted Cruz will be able to hold them together the way George W Bush did. But I’m unsure about this.
As to America’s position in the world, I think we’ve already fallen somewhat from our high point at the end of the Cold War. I’d expect that trend to continue. And I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.
Miss Bianca
@RaflW: This is going to get uglier still. This is almost to 19th-century level ugly, or mid-20th, anyway – based on what I saw this weekend.
Bob In Portland
@<a href="#comment-@NR: NR, you’re missing the irony. Perhaps you are Russian like me?
Technocrat
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve never read one, but you’re the second person to mention it in a month.
I really need to check it out.
Mandalay
@Technocrat:
For the same reason that no third party will ever gain traction here: we have a winner takes all system. For a third party to thrive it would have to consistently beat both the Republicans and the Democrats, which is an impossibility for a fledgling party. As soon as a third party became a threat to one of the existing parties that party would do whatever was necessary to snuff them out. It’s one of the few issues where Democrats and Republicans are in complete agreement.
Third parties “win” by influencing the policies of the Republicans and the Democrats rather than through significant electoral success. So while the Greens are poorly represented, they have probably caused the Democratic Party to change their policies in a way that would not have happened if the Green Party had never existed.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Nobody’s Russian quite like you, Bob. In fact, nobody’s anything at all quite like you.
Miss Bianca
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): It’s so hard to rei(g)n in these tendencies.
Bob In Portland
@Technocrat: Because Bernie’s still in the race. They should pick up some of disenchanted Sanders supporters after the convention if the coronation isn’t stopped.
Technocrat
@Mandalay:
That seems plausible. But if every Bernie voter (for example) were to vote for Jill Stein, it would be pretty hard to snuff out, with the added benefit of crippling the Democratic party for that cycle.
redshirt
@NR: So you think the Democratic Party is fundamentally in a weaker condition then the Republican? If so, is it only because of state elections and results?
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady:
In what way, my dear? Because I recognize the coup of 1963 and the villagers here don’t? Maybe because I see a connection between who pays a candidate and how the candidate behaves when in office? I know, outrageous things to believe. But how is that Russian? Can you be a Russian if you don’t speak Russian? Or because I didn’t fall for the false flag MH 370 and you did?
Because I know about Ukrainian fascists and people pretend not to know?
Because I pointed out that the working class has been stiffed
Mandalay
@gene108:
This. For months Don Lemon on CNN grinned and chuckled like a school kid while Donald Trump phoned in his rantings and his hate speech. And the push back from Lemon?….”Nice talking with you Mr. Trump. Let’s do it again”. How Lemon’s ratings must have soared!
I despise media scum like Don Lemon far more than the wingnuts like Hannity and Limbaugh.
redshirt
It just made me very sad to consider if the momentum of the 2008 election carried through to 2010, we’d have most likely a liberal paradise today. Single Payer, end of war, free healthcare and education for all. All because of the freaking census.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Who are these Ukrainian fascists? I’m interested.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland:
In all ways, Sport.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: Oh fuck — now he’s going to tell us.
Bob In Portland
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: http://www.thenation.com/article/seven-decades-nazi-collaboration-americas-dirty-little-ukraine-secret/
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt:
No, you’re not.
gwangung
@Bob In Portland:
That’s YOU, you greedy asshole.
Most of the people I run with are different.
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: I actually am. All of life and everything in it is interesting, if you’ve got the right mindset.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: I don’t get the context, help!
Mandalay
@Technocrat: You are correct that it would be hard to snuff out, and it’s a nice idea, but the reality is that it will not happen. In the same way. if (say) every Hispanic voted, or everyone under 25 voted, then the Democrats would permanently own the presidency and Congress. But as a practical matter that will never happen either.
Britain has 650 MPs, of which exactly one is a member of the UK Independence Party (UKIP), which has a platform of Britain leaving the EU, and not much else. It is a testament to how much the deck is stacked against new parties that all the major parties in Britain support remaining in the EU, yet there is a real possibility that voters in June will ignore them all, and choose to leave. If so, they would be endorsing the policy of a party that has just 1 seat in government out of 650. There’s something very massively amiss with the way Britain is currently governed if voters decide to leave.
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt: As you read that article from The Nation, keep in mind that the publisher has been married for nearly 30 years to Stephen Cohen, who has made a half-century-long career being an apologist for, first, the USSR, then later, the Russian Federation. that’s the kind of fact that Bob would consider it important to know, but he may neglect to mention.
Brachiator
@Mandalay:
The Tea Party effectively took over the Republicans, aided by money and electoral success.
Mary in Ohio
Should of, would of, could of my biggest language pet peeves. How hard is it to spell have?
Technocrat
@Mandalay:
Fair enough. That’s a good analogy.
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt: I don’t have the time or the inclination to give you the history. Bob does, apparently, but is handicapped in his understanding of current Ukrainian and Russian politics by the fact that he understands neither language, has never been to either country and doesn’t know anyone who lives or works in either country. It is roughly as if I presented myself on this blog as an authority on the current situation in Thailand.
Brachiator
@Mandalay: To talk about British politics by mentioning UKIP isn’t saying much. You could instead talk about how the Lib Dems aligned with the Conservative Party instead of Labour and committed political suicide.
Brachiator
@gene108:
The media is not a monolith. And newspapers and magazines, along with whatever influence they have, are dying faster than a speeding bullet. Increasingly, people get whatever they think is news from Twitter and Facebook, the high tech equivalent on ignorant gossip.
Yeah, much of the media tilts in favor of the Republicans. This ain’t either new or news. You still have Murdoch and other conservative tycoons buying or controlling the media remnants. But if right wing media were as powerful as you suggest, Jeb would be rolling up primary victories on his way to a November showdown with the Democrats.
Smiling Mortician
@Major Major Major Major: So hey, are you writing for Wonkette these days? Or is someone else using your nym?
Mandalay
@Brachiator:
Right, but by definition they are not a third party if they took control of the Republican party from within. AFAIK Tea Party supporters always run as Republicans, and the Tea Party is a movement rather than an independent political party. And I’m sure the Tea Party members deliberately chose not to form a breakaway party. Why start from scratch when you can take over an existing organization?
Unlike the Tea Party, other organizations such as the Green Party and the Communist Party USA are a formal political parties.
Brachiator
@Mandalay:
Sure. But this is just to say that there are many ways to influence or even dominate an existing mainstream party.
The Greens could influence policy as a third party or as a movement within the Democratic Party. The commies would have a tough time anywhere.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mandalay:
There were many reasons why Gore “lost” (even though he got more votes). Of course it wasn’t just Nader, and it wasn’t just the MSM, and it wasn’t just his picking Lieberman, and it wasn’t just the Butterfly Ballots, and it wasn’t just losing Tennessee, and it wasn’t just the antiquated voting machines, and it wasn’t just Gore running away from Clinton, and it wasn’t just the Florida legislature and state courts, and it wasn’t just the SCOTUS. It was a lot of things all together.
But Nader was a big part of the reason. He did say that the parties were “the same”. He did rail against the Democrats at least as much, and maybe more, than he did against the Republicans. He did convince a lot of people that it was time that they stop accepting that American politics is a messy business and that if they only held out for some simple and pure explanation then everything would be great. He drove down turnout for Democrats and that hurt Gore.
I voted for Nader in 2000 (as did J who was a huge Nader fan). I wasn’t a huge fan, and saw a lot of Nader’s flaws, but I thought – “hey, we live in VA so we won’t pick the winner anyway, so what the heck.”
Bernie’s campaign is too much like Nader’s for my taste.
We saw what happens when we don’t do everything we can to elect Democrats and let “conservatives” take the reins. I’m not going to make that mistake again.
Cheers,
Scott.
gwangung
Just for the record, I’m leary of any potential leadership that would ignore Blue Dog Dems; it smacks too much of power hungriness, doing to them what was done to prorgressives. Dems should have the ideological flexibility to embrace a wider range of interests than the Republicans, and represent the full scale of the party, and the country as a whole.
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
When one millionaire give another millionaire money, lots of money, for a common cause, why would you think there is a quid pro quo? That’s thinking like a pool hall sand-bagger.
Try thinking like the leader of the free world, for a change. It is different.
J R in WV
@gelfling545:
Specious means ( and has always meant ) a statement of fact that seems truthful or plausible, but which is in fact false, not true. As fas as the Oxford Dictionary of the English Language knows it has always meant that. A plausible falsehood, usually designed to be plausible but erroneous.
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
No. He should donate a sizable and public proportion of his weekly take to the DNC, who can use it as the party decides to for winning more seats in congress, taking back a few sate houses, like West Virginia, which went Repug just 2 years ago, and which could be turned with a tiny handful of changes in individual races.
The lege in WV just made it nearly impossible for commercial farmers to raise industrial hemp, after they did a lot of work to become certified to handle the specific genotypes of Cannabis legal for industrial uses like cloth, rope, belts, tackle, etc. The poor state needs more commerce, and they make markets poised to boom illegal.
The WV State tax income is woefully short of what it takes to run the government, and while there are vast new markets showing how underfunded local governments can reverse that trend by engaging in those new markets. Then taxing the new economic activity, modestly at first. Fix some potholes, landslides, bridges, schools, etc.
Then after legal pot becomes well established, part of the business community, raise taxes a little at a time, to see what the new market can bear. I understand that in Colorado the Cannibis market insisted that their tax rates be increased, so that now towns which were short of funds every financial reporting period are now reporting sufficient income to repair streets, reopen schools, rehire school teaching assistants, rehire school nurses, vaccinate people on the recommended schedule, why, it is as if government was intended to be fully funded to get the tasks government is meant to accomplish done on schedule~!!
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
BiP,
Your remark “Because I recognize the coup of 1963 and the villagers here don’t!” fascinates me. I thought we were about the same age, I just turned 65. Is the coup of ’63 you speak of the death of JFK and Lyndon Baines Johnson’s accession to the presidency of the United States on board the airliner flying Jack, Jackie and Lyndon back to Washington, DC.
There was a shift of power from a MA Catholic, top of his class in MA from his wealthy birth until his untimely death, to a tall, once poor, Texan, who went to a teacher’s college and cheated to be elected class president. Who was picked for the VP slot on the ticket by Jack Kennedy and his advisors. The pick worked, the pair won the election going away.
Did LBJ have particular aims different from those aims of JFK>? Good question. Did the CIA set up Lee Harvey Oswald to take the fall, and then have a soon to die local bar manager shoot Lee Harvey in front of LIVE CBS TV cameras? Good question.
Was that a coup? could be… I was there watching the TV, I was 11 for the Cuban Missile Crisis and 12 for the assassination of our President. I was in Science class, taught by Emmett Pugh, who when the principle announced that classes were over for the day because President Kennedy had been killed in Dallas TX, a place where most people despised him. Mr Pugh was smiling and delighted that Kennedy was dead – he was a dirty Irish Catholic mobster, and didn’t deserve to be President of the great nation we lived in back then.
What do you think you know about the days in November, 1963, BiP ??? I want to know.
trnc
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
No, it was just the SCOTUS. Even with all of the other handicaps, Gore would have won Florida if the vote recount hadn’t been stopped prematurely, The other things just kept the margin close enough to give the ratfuckers an excuse to do so.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@trnc: One could also argue, on the other hand, that Florida was essentially a tie because the broken voting system there couldn’t guarantee a correct result when it was so close. Depending on the “standard”, either Bush or Gore would have won a recount. Since the states write their own voting rules, the state was going to decide the result if the SCOTUS didn’t step in. And since the GOP controlled Florida, then the GOP was going to determine the winner.
Counter-factuals are always interesting and fun. But there’s enough “blame” to go around even if the SCOTUS had stayed out of it.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@J R in WV: Not exactly. The cannabis industry ends up paying for new schools because the state can’t raise the money for them. There is a “perfect storm” nexus of the TABOR (Taxpayer Bill of Rights) Amendment, which stipulates that no government in the state, from the state down to the smallest municipality or special district, is able to keep a “rainy day” fund – every dollar raised in excess of budgeted needs must be returned to the taxpayers – which sounds great, until you realize how much it strangles the ability of government to actually have the funds to govern (unless they get a ballot issue passed to specifically exempt them from TABOR). Against that, you have Amendment 23, which stipulates full funding for K-12 – again, sounds great, until you realize how finite a pool of money the state has at its disposal – and how much starvation that means for higher ed. Finally, the Gallagher Amendment, which basically values business property tax at a much higher rate than individual homeowner property tax. Against all that, because we haven’t so far overturned TABOR, we have…pot revenue! So there was a ballot initative to hike the tax on pot sales, with the money going toward new school construction. As far as I am aware, the cannabis industry was not, in fact, begging to be taxed at a higher rate – but the state saw a chance to make some quick and easy money, because who wouldn’t want more sin taxes, right? So, buy a joint for new schools, y’all!
rumpole
OK–Am I the only one who thinks it’s a little tacky to throw dollar bills at the female candidate? (And the response to “we would have done it if she was male” I think misses the point. She isn’t.)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@rumpole: Nope, you’re not the only one.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Bob In Portland
@J R in WV: Just asking these questions shows that you aren’t well-read on the subject. I can give you a list of books to read, but recommending books hasn’t shown much promise here at Balloon Juice. If you want a list, ask for it.
Why do you think that there are still classified documents on JFK’s death? Seriously.
Bob In Portland
@J R in WV: Considering how the DNC is currently being run, I doubt that you’ll see any non-chosen contender launder any money through it. DownWithTyranny! has a story up today about candidates that Sanders has helped, and they’re all being primaried by farther-right DNC candidates.
Bob In Portland
@Brachiator: You understand money and class, don’t you?
charon
@rumpole:
Perhaps “seriously tacky” instead of “a little tacky?”
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: So can you give me the abridged version of this coup?
DCF
@patroclus:
Stop the motorcade for a paltry $1000 (in singles)? Please…now if there was a six-figure number involved….
Bernie Sanders Just Accused Hillary Clinton of Violating Campaign Finance Laws
Amanda Girard | April 18, 2016
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-hillary-campaign-finance/
Some Questions for Hillary Clinton Supporters
by
John Atcheson
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/04/17/some-questions-hillary-clinton-supporters