——–UPDATE——–
Les Zaitz is reporting on his twitter feed that the US Attorney for Oregon, the Supervisory Special Agent in Charge (SSAC) for the FBI (most likely the Portland Field Office), and the Sheriff (most likely Harney County Sheriff Ward) will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10:30 AM PST.
——————————
JJ McNabb at her twitter feed has indicated/reported at 7:43 PM (unclear if this is Pacific Time) that Blaine Cooper is “preparing for a hard stand” at the refuge.
—————————–
It has now been confirmed that Arizona rancher, foster parent, and self made Constitutional expert LaVoy Finicum was the person who was killed in the firefight between Ammon Bundy and those accompanying him and the FBI and Oregon State Police.
And Ritzheimer surrendered in Arizona.
—————————–
The new question will be how do the FBI, State, and local law enforcement wind down and round up the remaining occupiers at the Malheur Federal Wildlife Refuge. And how do they deal with the various Oath Keepers, III%ers, and other militia and sovereign citizen folks in Harney and Grant Counties.
——————————
FBI Statement (h/t: Origuy):
As BettyC intimated a few minutes ago, Ammon Bundy and 8 others have been taken into custody after exchanging gunfire with the FBI. It is unclear who began the firefight at the traffic stop. No reports yet on whether anyone was injured.
—————————-
We are now in Day 24 of the standoff at the Malheur Federal Wildlife Refuge. Ammon Bundy and his followers have now set their sights on taking over neighboring Grant County. There is a meeting there tonight and the Grant County Sheriff, Sheriff Palmer, is both a member of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) and a fellow traveler of the Bundys. He’s made it clear he’s not going to back up Sheriff Ward in Harney County and the Oregon Sheriffs’ Association has called for him to get with the (law enforcement) program. The good news is that Grant County’s Gray Zone is pushing back on Sheriff Palmer. His former Undersheriff Tom McKinley, who is the current Director of the Corrections Facility, has filed to run against him to ensure that there is real, proper law enforcement in Grant County, Oregon.
Last night’s Harney County community meeting – as in a meeting of the actual community, not the bogus sovereign-citizen and Bundy aligned Harney County Committee of Public Safety, had to be cancelled. Judge Grasty, the senior county official in Harny County cancelled it because of the number of armed, non Harney County residents in Burns and the surrounding areas. Grasty was clear that he wasn’t happy about this and the ongoing intimidation, but that the safety of the community is the priority right now. He has also, now, formally called for the FBI to move against Bundy and his fellow occupiers. The local Paiute community has also called on the FBI to act, especially as the occupiers have bulldozed across several archeological sites.
The ongoing occupation is also negatively impacting Harney County schoolchildren. Specifically, and as I’m sure everyone can imagine, it is stressing them out. There are concerns about violence being expressed from students as young as 5. Speaking of children, there some strange things happening with children at the refuge. Florida Man (what else?), Tea Party activist, and self appointed soveriegn citizen judge Joaquin Mariano DeMoreta-Folch, traveled to Arizona with the wife of one of the Malheur Refuge occupiers. There he impersonated a law enforcement officer to coerce her relatives to turn her two daughters over to them. They then took the children to the refuge in Oregon, where local news has reported they are now staying with their parents. This is at least a Class 6 felony* in Arizona and the authorities there are investigating. Another interesting family event has also taken place among the occupiers. A Kansas mom brought 9 of her 10 kids – one was taken away from her by Kansas Child Protective Services – in order to perform patriotic and religious songs for Ammon Bundy and company. She also took the family on tour to the Bundy Ranch standoff in 2014.
Joaquin Mariano DeMoreta-Folch, when he’s not busy impersonating law enforcement officers, has come to Oregon to oversee the sovereign citizen’s court and dispense justice. He’s already begun threatening reporters and intimating that the local elected and appointed government officials of Harney County will be charged. DeMoreta-Folch traces his authority, and that of his court, back to the Magna Carta, which has not only never been the law of the land in the US, but was also an agreement between the English crown and the nobility and had nothing to do with actual citizens.**
Finally, we end with the strange and the bizarre. Joseph Stetson was intercepted and arrested by Oregon State Police. He was open carrying a pellet (BB) gun, was visibly intoxicated, and claimed he was going to join the occupation at the refuge to kill law enforcement officers. When he was taken into custody, the body cam recordings captured him exclaiming that he is a Green Beret colonel and that President Reagan, himself, had sealed his records. Since he’s 54 now, and there hasn’t been a 27 year old colonel in the US Army – Conventional or Special Forces – since the Great Rebellion, now doing business as the Civil War, we can reasonably surmise that he is neither a Green Beret nor a colonel. To top that bit of excitement, an Idaho based occupier*** named Kelly Gneitling has challenged Governor Christie of New Jersey to a 10 falls Sumo basho (match) to settle the occupation (warning: picture and video of Mr. Gneitling at the link in a mawashi – you’ve been warned!). If Governor Christie wins just one fall, the occupation will end.
* It depends on whether the impersonation was part of another felony. So if they find that he helped to kidnap the kids, then the level of offense would change.
** At the time there were no English or British citizens, just subjects.
*** I really don’t know what this means. Is he such a large Sumo tori that he can occupy the refuge in Oregon from his home in Idaho? Or does this mean he’s virtually participating in the occupation – either via facetime or skype or just in spiritual solidarity?
Sad_Dem
I’m hoping that fellow-traveler sheriff loses his job quickly. And that the Bundy clowns end up serving the sentences they have earned by breaking laws. Let it be a lesson to the rest of the white supremacist morons out there that their time has passed.
sparrow
…or as someone just put on twitter, “Bundy occupies government jail cell.”
Calouste
Sloppy nutjobs. Of course they meant the Harney County Committee of Public Safety
Adam L Silverman
@Calouste: Actually I think I was the one being sloppy. I’ll fix it.
dslak
Here is one of my favorite articles (originally published in a law journal, but hosted on the author’s personal website here) on the absurdity of the views underlying the sovereign citizens’ movement.
Felonius Monk
According to this Ryan Bundy was shot (minor wound) but there is one fatality (no name has been released).
danielx
About Fucking Time.
dr. bloor
LaVoy Finicum’s name is notably absent from the list of arrestees. According to Adam’s link, he said he would be at the meeting they were going to.
Major Major Major Major
About fucking time.
Edit: I see I have been beaten to the punch :)
Anne Laurie
Twitter links: Les Zaitz,” Senior investigative reporter, The Oregonian/OregonLive”.
Via JJMacNab, “Fellow @ the George Washington Univ Center for Cyber & Homeland Security, Program on Extremism”.
Tim C.
Thanks for the update! Doing better than Local news at the moment.
Mary G
I think the FBI played it very smart by not doing anything for three weeks, which lulled these morons into thinking that they could just come and go as they pleased. Once they knew that the meeting was scheduled in the next county, they shut down the highway and snatched them up. Bravo for patience and planning!
I am sure that whoever was killed will a right-wing martyr, but oh well.
OGLiberal
Dead traitor but if at the hands of the Feds – as it appears so – the crazies will be even more fired up than ever, regardless of who actually shot first.
Lord, do I hate these effing people. Sad that somebody died but, for the love of Pete, if those were armed brown people occupying the park they’d have been dead, in the hospital, or in jail weeks ago. Fvck white privilege.
dc
According to the FBI news release, one individual is deceased.
“One individual who was a subject of a federal probable cause arrest is deceased.”
Adam L Silverman
@Felonius Monk: They better be praying they didn’t kill a cop. If they did, they will never see the light of day again.
Adam L Silverman
Hopefully someone arrests Pete Santilli too!
dr. bloor
Well, at least we know now where all those snacks went.
Sad_Dem
@dslak: Good article–when a lawyer gets going on a pile of stupid, it is a pleasure to watch.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Bunch of fucking assholes. I hope they all rot in jail. Maybe the next band of fearless warriors will think a bit before taking over the ice cream shop and merry go round at some county park for Freedom!®
Calouste
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know what the nutjobs actually called their association, but the link I posted goes to Robespierre’s infamous knitting club.
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman: Speaking of Mr. Santilli…
Patricia Kayden
Terrorists down!! Good on Law Enforcement for finally making their move.
amk
SPLC
Not punishing the Bundys for the Nevada standoff led to the occupation in Oregon
RobertDSC-Quad Intel Mac
Good.
OGLiberal
@dr. bloor: Is he the foster child slave laborer? If he’s the dead guy it sucks that he’s dead but, still, eff him.
And just reading that the local sheriff was a sympathizer – eff him, too….should get thrown out on his arse. These folks are all just a bunch of “Wolverines!” d-bags. Enough, already…hope this is the end of these tolerated illegal BS.
ARoomWithAMoose
This was only people taken into custody while traveling out of county (and I guess now incarcerated and eventually arraigned far away from this circus)? So there’s still a bunch more RWNJ’s with kids holed up at the wildlife refuge, not to mention the population of non-locals that have been doing their best to intimidate locals that didn’t want these carnies in town.
Origuy
Some on Twitter reporting that Finicum is the stiff. Also that Santilli has been detained for questioning.
amk
Hopefully the fucking feds don’t charge them with just a traffic violation.
Patricia Kayden
@dr. bloor: He is dead.
dslak
@Sad_Dem: Yes, and Mr. Black has an amusing writing style.
Mike in NC
Tar and feather these domestic terrorists, then start making them pay the million dollars they owe for a decade of unpaid grazing fees. How fucking hard is this stuff?
OGLiberal
@Patricia Kayden: Yup, if they were brown people the wingers would be waving flags and dancing in the streets. But watch Fox turn these criminal into patriotic martyrs.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: They were arrested on felony warrants.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman:
They’ll do what they did to McVeigh and frame a guilty man,. There was no doubt he was guilty, but the way the feds handled the case was shameful. Feds should have gone to prison.
Felonius Monk
@Adam L Silverman:
I think that has been taken care of according to an earlier report I saw. I’ll try to find it.
CaseyL
HOORAY! Very good news. I’ve been checking around, and while one story said the occupation was now over, I haven’t seen confirmation of that.
If any of those low-rent rebels are still in the refuge, they’re likely shit scared. Good!
ThresherK (GPad)
Tina Fey*, America turns its lonely eyes to you for a Sarah Palin style ” feds goosestepping over freedom luvvers ” rap, stat.
*And your writers too.
sigaba
@Felonius Monk: he’s being held for questioning, I read.
Oregonian says the wounded is Ryan Bundy. The absence of LaVoy Finicum’s name from the list of arrestees, either on the highway or at the community meeting, is remarkable.
Soylent Green
They were stopped on the road north to John Day, Oregon, a hundred miles from the wildlife refuge. My best friend lives and works there, for the Malheur National Forest. Bundy was taking his traveling road show there, encouraged by Sheriff Palmer, to share his plans for returning the national forest to its rightful owners. Our people out there (Forest Service staff) are obviously fearful about the future — who knows what Bundy sympathizer might want a little revenge?
J R in WV
Well, about time. Glad no LEOs were injured so far.
Slime.
Chip Daniels
@Soylent Green: they were going to return the land to the Paiutes?
Mebbe I misjudged them.
keith p
@sigaba: Reports saying Finicum is dead. Militia says he had his hands up and shot 3 times, including while on the ground. We’ll see what the body cams say.
Felonius Monk
(Source)
Note the probable bullshit –– «on the ground when he was shot»
Comrade Misfit
The neocons used to be very fond of saying “kill them all, let God sort them out.”
ThresherK (GPad)
@Soylent Green: Shot in the dark: Are you by any chance friends with Nevada Barr, the author? Because that’d be so cool.
sigaba
@keith p: yeah I’d seen that in a Tweeter but I don’t trust that stuff
sigaba
FBI reports Santilli has been arrested proper.
randy khan
Bundy’s clan already is claiming that the shooting was unjustified and that Finicum either had his hands up or was shot while he was on the ground (or maybe both). I sure hope there’s video that disproves that.
Quoth the Oregonian
jl
@Chip Daniels: The Paiutes were graciously invited to pick up their trinkets in the refuge museum and then were supposed to go away and not come back.
Paiutes said they would not participate in local meetings with the Bundy Gang.
Read a news report that the Bundy Gang was bulldozing archeological sites.
Also read that a few neighboring ranchers were mightily pissed about the Bundy Gang cutting their fences and creating access routes without permission.
Things were getting out of hand in a number of ways.
Major Major Major Major
@randy khan: hands up, don’t shoot! White lives matter! (Obviously I’m hoping they’re full of shit)
Joel
Are they going to wave the blue tarp of surrender?
lgerard
@randy khan:
Note that this claim is via Michelle Fiore…a most unreliable person
Honus
Did finicum have any stolen cigars on him?
amk
@randy khan:
I am sure all kindsa wingnut poutrage will pour forth this entire week.
keith p
@sigaba: So has the “stop sending dildo’s, haters” guy. Now they just have to nab the “judge” and the sumo champ, and that should be that.
lgerard
Also, surprised Jon Ritzheimer turned himself in
wonder if he brought any dildos with him?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Oregonian again.
This is rather surprising to me in that it’s sensible, and I thought he was batshit enough to want to go down swinging.
ETA: Late to the party, as usual. Though this time I’m blaming the head cold.
lgerard
I am of the opinion that the Sumo guy should get a pass because that was some pretty awesome trolling of Christie
Soylent Green
@ThresherK (GPad): Heard of her. But Barr’s stories take place in the national parks, not the national forests — big difference.
OGLiberal
@Felonius Monk: I’m sure that’s complete BS but when there’s video evidence of cops doing that to an unarmed black guy, nobody ever gets indicted and many white folks say, “well, he should have just listened to the cops.”
The Feds have been handling these lunatics with kid gloves. I hardly think they just started firing off rounds for no reason. Sorry, doesn’t pass the smell test. But 47 percent of voting Americans will believe this slave driving, government teet sucking “patriot” was murdered in cold blood by Obama’s jack booted thugs.
Omnes Omnibus
@lgerard: I am of the opinion that none of them should get a pass.
ArchPundit
@Felonius Monk:
Of course he was. He was under the tarp.
ArchPundit
@lgerard: Why so much hate?
Seriously, that guy is the last guy who was going to make a stand.
Feebog
@randy khan:
I would bet the entire arrest procedure was video taped, probably from several angles. I would also bet that one or more of these morons drew their weapons and started the bloodshed.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: I share that opinion, but the sumo guy still should at least get some snacks.
mclaren
I’m tempted to suggest a lasso and a branding iron, but that would be churlish.
Felonius Monk
It was easy to laugh at these idiots, but this article puts it in perspective:
jl
@jl: I guess the unsympathetic neighboring ranchers forfeited their right to the land, and their tenure was less equal than the Bundy Gang’s and their buddies? Anyway, I read a news report that some neighboring ranchers were complaining that the Bundy Gang was just going on their land and wrecking stuff.
Soylent Green
The bad news is that they got the gunfight they wanted, and the wingnuts will go ballistic. Especially over Ammon’s bullshit story about how Finicum bought it. The stop was made by FBI agents, not Cleveland cops. I hope they have good video to document the truth.
NonyNony
@OGLiberal: Of course it’s complete BS. Not just for the kid gloves reason you state – if the Feds were going to shoot one of them in cold blood why leave the rest alive?
If the story isn’t outright bullshit from Fiore, then it’s more of Bundy’s persecution fantasies come to life telling us what he wishes the Feds had done to feed his martyr complex.
jl
@Feebog: Finicum said in interviews he would not be taken alive, or he would shoot back, if the law came at him with guns drawn. Apparently he thought that was rude and disrespectful and violated his sovereign citizen rights So there is that.
And he was the guy who lost his foster kids, or free labor, or both. Not sure what they meant to him. He admitted that the income from the foster kids were his livelihood.
A sad case, and maybe desperate, with nothing to lose?
BillinGlendaleCA
Oh, my; first Abe Vigoda’s dead and now tarp guy?
Felonius Monk
@Adam L Silverman:
(Source)
Mike in NC
FOX News will start a yoooouge run on sales of gunz and ammo tomorrow. Like they always do.
Mnemosyne
@keith p:
Yes, it’s terrible when unarmed people are killed by police. I’d like to think that these guys will now have a lot more sympathy for the families of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, etc etc etc, but I ain’t holding my breath.
seaboogie
@Patricia Kayden:
I think he got his wish – and a http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-the-oregon-militant-beaneath-the-blue-tarp-killed-in-police-shootout-reports/ for the rest of us…hope I did that link correctly… I didn’t, but I wasn’t put in moderation either….text was supposed to be “a stroll down memory lane”
BillinGlendaleCA
@Felonius Monk: See, this how the FEMA camps start.
Anne Laurie
From Raw Story:
So welfare rancher (of foster kids) may actually have gone down shootin’, unlike Brave Sir Mooslim-Bashin’ Tattoo Artiste:
Feudalism Now!
Actually, this was close to a best outcome. Finicum taken alive would have been best, but arresting most of the leadership, away from the refuge, on the way to link up with a sympathetic sheriff, is good. Plus, a few surrendering after warrants were issued? Bonus.
If the Feds were shooting terrorists, there would be a lot more body bags than one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Feudalism Now!: It’s almost like the feds had an idea of how to handle this, huh?
randy khan
@Feebog: You’d have to give me pretty long odds to get me to bet against either of those propositions.
Punchy
I can Peg this Bundy mess on the cracker terrorist mindset. America’s Al-Bundy group. I also bet these Bundy hypocrits were smoking Bud, as idiotic as they’ve been.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Soylent Green: Yeah, just hoping, that’s all. I am already on the record that this whole shindig would make a great Anna Pigeon novel. Barr really was a ranger and writes knowingly of many places I’d like to go.
amk
@Anne Laurie:
He also begged for some munny.
jl
@Punchy: The news reports said their vehicles were stopped ‘with cause’. The way things have been going, a little hard to figure what that means. Is driving while an armed insurrectionist probably cause for a stop? Those exact words in the Constitution, or not?
Or, maybe they were speeding? Nothing in the Constitution about speed limits.
I like the note at the end. “presumed innocent”. I can see how maybe they will be over charged. That is the only practical meaning I can see in that disclaimer.
burnspbesq
My guess is that we will see a news conference in Portland bright and early tomorrow morning at which a shitload of indictments will be unsealed.
JudyinSD
I find it hard to believe that once arrested and in the backseat of an officer’s car, Bundy would be given a phone and allowed to call his wife. Doesn’t even begin to pass the smell test, so I find any information which has that as a source to be highly problematic.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Whocouldanode, right?
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
Thank you for this, Adam. Thank you very much.
dr. bloor
Boy, good old constitutionalist Sheriff Palmer is really left holding his dick in public on this one. He may as well turn in his badge and seize a wildlife refuge of his own somewhere.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
I thought feds plan all along was to end it “peacefully” ?
Librarian
I’m going to have to disagree with you about Magna Carta. It certainly has been a great influence upon both English and American law and constitutions, especially article 39, which was a precursor of due process of law, and the entire document is regarded as the establishment of the concept that the power of rulers is limited by law. As for the social aspect, it indeed was an agreement between the king and the barons, but the concepts embodied in it came to apply to other social groups later.
Anne Laurie
@amk: Well, of course he did; as Finicum’s child-ranching proves, all these guys are in it for the grift. Ritzheimer’s had a whole series of performance stunts since at least May of last year, every one festooned with a series of SEND MONEY NAOW!!! social-media.
lgerard
@JudyinSD:
I agree wholeheartedly….this “story” is attributed to Michelle Fiore a most unreliable wingnut
burnspbesq
One last gratuitous insult to these clowns would be to cast Michael B. Jordan and Daniel Dae Kim as the lead FBI agents when the movie gets made.
burnspbesq
@amk:
FBI werent the only ones who had a say in that.
amk
@Anne Laurie:
of course, he had to use “his girls” as the prop. pathetic scum.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Who said that?
amk
@burnspbesq:
yeah, with a buncha armed to the teeth terrorists, hoocuddanoed a peaceful ending was possible?
Adam L Silverman
@amk: They won’t. After the Miami shootout the FBI and DOJ take a very dim view of anyone that shoots at them.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: oh please.
Adam L Silverman
@Felonius Monk: Yep, same conspiracy charges as the others.
MobiusKlein
@srv: Terrorist plot snuffed by FBI? I guess the Obama administration is more competent than you might think!
eta: gadzooks, spelling
Prescott Cactus
@lgerard:
@srv:
1+1 = 2
amk
@srv:
you don’t get the irony, do ya? It’s your dipshits that are arming these terrorists.
Redshift
@jl: Based on the previous arrest, one possibility is that one of the vehicles was stolen from the refuge.
OGLiberal
@jl: Maybe forcibly and illegally occupying federal property with arms is “cause”? Bet if these were black dudes it would have been over – maybe in uglier fashion – soon after it started. I can understand being hesitant to storm the park a la Waco – wouldn’t have been ideal – but letting these guys comeand go as they pleased was ridiculous. They stopped them this time and dude pissed that his government-provided slave labor meal ticket was taken away and with, apparently, a death by Feds death wish, got killed when he did something not good with his weapon. (Is there any chance thus lunatic wasn’t packing 24/7) Hardly a shock.
Adam L Silverman
@sigaba: Its now confirmed, and I just updated up top, that LaVoy Finicum is the fatal casualty.
Roger Moore
@amk:
It takes two to tango. If the people there don’t want to end it peacefully, it’s very hard for the feds to manage it without completely capitulating.
amk
@Adam L Silverman:
Can’t wait to see the indictments. Since having seen none for daddy bundy.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: I are you suggesting that I did? Being against an armed assault and arguing for patience does not equal suggesting a peaceful ending. YMMV.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@lgerard:
Fiore’s vanity softcore porn productions are reliable, though. Reliably awful, but, still…
Adam L Silverman
@srv: He was arrested with Ammon Bundy. He is also, still, facing state charges in Arizona.
chopper
fuck these fucking assholes. throw away the key while we’re at it.
ArchPundit
While we might have wanted to see this done earlier, one of the reasonable criticisms in Waco was that ATF should have waited for Koresh to go into town to make his arrest and then raid the compound.
Well, these numb nuts decided to occupy the site when it was convenient and the FBI did this well.
burnspbesq
Oregonian is reporting that the shootout took place on 395 approx. 20 miles north of Burns. Been there. It’s really difficult to describe just how empty that country is.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep.
Anne Laurie
@amk: Very old Mad magazine quote (from their parody of Chuck Connors’ Rifleman): “Ain’t nothing so peaceful and quiet as a dead man, son.”
Live by the cartoon stereotype, die by the cartoon stereotype…
lgerard
I think the “cause” part is that they had arrest warrants for certain people, knew those people were in vehicle X, therefore had cause to stop vehicle X.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I’ll let Omnes weigh in as he’s the lawyer, but I think this means that once warrants were issued for their arrests for what they were doing at the refuge, they could be stopped and taken into custody whenever the FBI decided to do so.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: So they arrested the leadership of the group when they were isolated from their foot soldiers and far away from valuable federal property? Shocking.
Adam L Silverman
@dr. bloor: They made him man the roadblock.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
You seemed fixated on armed response, which not many here were saying. There are other things that feds could have done to deescalate the situation like stopping these terrorists from waltzing in & out of the refuge, swelling the ranks, terrorizing the local populace etc. Now, you have got kids inside to worry about.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: That is more or less correct.
But “way in?” You know you are in our sights for your spelling – even if we find your posts interesting and informative ( which I do, at least).
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
Innit?
peej01
@Omnes Omnibus: And out of town so there were fewer chances that innocent townspeople would be harmed.
Adam L Silverman
@lgerard: The woman who thinks that cancer can be flushed out of the body with a baking soda IV. I would be very surprised to find out that when Bundy was put in the back of the police cruiser or SUV his hands were not cuffed behind his back and he was allowed to make call on his own cell phone to anyone.
Felonius Monk
@lgerard:
Not surprising. He’s an attention whore, probably felt left out unless he went to jail with the rest of the gang.
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m on my way over to weigh in as well.
Reign of terror reined in.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Librarian: Yeah. Easy for me to say at this vantage point, 800 years on, but that was an example of “gotta start somewhere”.
Adam L Silverman
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): Links or they didn’t happen.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Its late and I’m tired. I almost racked out at 8 and didn’t even do the post.
Also: lazd weak eye cuwdnt spil injoneer and now eye ar wun.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: And some people seemed fixated on “ending it now.” Ending it now effectively meant an assault of some kind. That’s how it done. Send the forces in, double tap anything that looks like a combatant on the first go through, turn back, do it again, and on third pass start asking who wants to surrender. Lots of people die that way.
ETA: I don’t give a shit about 24 days, if something like this brings and end to it.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: @burnspbesq: I am shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Adam L Silverman:
You didn’t know about this? HA!
Adam L Silverman
@srv: He was arrested at home back in Arizona on state charges, processed, made bail or bonded out or what have you, and then proceeded back to Oregon and the standoff.
Adam L Silverman
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): I may have to go commit sepuku now.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: It’s typically spelled “seppuku.” Since spelling seems to be a topic for the evening.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Librarian: I would like to know if this lot in Oregon also saw fit to misapply the idea of “a man’s home (sic) is his castle” during the standoff.
lgerard
So Ryan Bundy has a minor gunshot wound
100 bucks says he shot himself
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
Some were and most weren’t. Most were asking the same q’s above.
And it did end up in violence any ways.
Omnes Omnibus
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): I watched 33 seconds and gave up. Is she the singer person or something?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Why did you get out of the boat? Are you that unnerved by Adam’s spelling?
amk
@efgoldman:
Of course, they are. That’s the whole point, isn’t it? Remember how daddy bundy bravely declared that he was gonna put women and children front and center?
Prescott Cactus
@Adam L Silverman:
Bring some old towels. It’s messy.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Adam L Silverman:
I should have given you the Saving Private Ryan warning: “You’re a young man! Don’t do it!”
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: And I was responding to those who were. If this ends it, it is relatively peaceful. I am cool with it.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): The weigh/way thing done did me in.
Anne Laurie
@lgerard:
Hopefully in his own… foot, while drawin’ his shootin’ arn!
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: As someone who had to spend several years studying linguistics: its transliterated, so there is no official/formal/correct English spelling.
Aleta
A couple of things:
Here’s Why Western Ranchers Are Paying Their Grazing Fees
http://westernpriorities.org/2016/01/26/heres-why-western-ranchers-are-paying-their-grazing-fees/
and a mockery:
An open letter asserting a claim to the grazing rights renounced by a Bundy sympathizer.
http://www.wweek.com/2016/01/26/oh-hey-ill-take-that-33000-acres-if-adrian-sewell-doesnt-want-it/
Adam L Silverman
@ThresherK (GPad): Oregon does not have a stand your ground law. They do have a no duty to retreat law. I’m not sure how you square those two, perhaps Omnes has some idea. That said, you normally cannot stand your ground or exercise no duty to retreat against law enforcement in the normal course of their duties. I know of only one case where someone shot a cop who was involved with executing a no knock warrant and wasn’t prosecuted or convicted. If I’m recalling correctly he was the sole law enforcement officer in the neighboring jurisdiction and some knucklehead had messed up the address on the warrant. When the cops burst in, he grabbed his duty weapon, and returned fire thinking it was an armed robbery on his house in the middle of the night.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I hope that thought lets you sleep at night.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Anne Laurie: I hope they check his holster for a fresh hole and powder burns.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman:
As long as they clearly identify themselves as LEOs at the beginning of the exchange.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: was this
a transliteration of cudlip? Cause that’s how I read it.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes she is. She normally is blonde, I’m assuming that was a black wig. And while she’s not a petite woman, all of the photos of her, including the contemporary ones, make her look much better than she looked in that clip. She’s also bug fuck nuts!
andy
It’s time for all gunfondlers to RISE- WOLVERINES
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Playing with fire there. Let’s not risk summoning anyone, please. I’m not certain Adam is familiar with that term I will not repeat.
Adam L Silverman
@Anne Laurie: GLOCK Leg.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Nope, my CPAP lets me sleep at night.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Cudlip, cudlip, cudlip.*
*I am going to bed soon.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Lucky you, I can’t sleep lest clowns eat me.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I would think the barricade, Oregon State Police cruisers parked sideways with their lights flashing, the FBI SUVs parked sideways with their lights flashing, the Oregon State Police guys in their uniforms, and the FBI guys wearing bullet proof vests marked FBI would have been a give away, but you never know. Perhaps Bundy and crew can’t spell either.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was trying to seriously misspell “couldn’t spell”.
Gian
So if two robbers have a getaway driver and go to a store, pull a gun and the clerk shoots and kills one, the getaway driver can be on the hook for felony-murder, right?
So Bundy ought to be on the hook for felony-murder, right?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I think there are pills for that phobia.
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman: Ah, is that the proper term? I was thinking of Plaxico Burress…
ThresherK (GPad)
@Adam L Silverman: I can’t begin to square those two concepts.
But one of these jamokes occupying the preserve’s buildings, then considering it “their castle”, I could see happening.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Grace, you are evil. I’m headed off also, to be safe from the summoned and the clowns. I hope.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman:IT’S NOT A PHOBIA! IT’S REAL!!!1111 ELEVEN!!!!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Adam L Silverman:
I think the dark hair is hers, while her blonde hair comes from a bottle.
I don’t find her attractive or unattractive, but only because I can’t get her horrible acting and singing out of my head (and that, yeah, she’s absolutely fucking crazy). That fist pumping while she’s singing? That’s what editors are for, Michelle- since you didn’t hire one, you look like a bad karaoke performer.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Too Much Joy?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Adam L Silverman
@Anne Laurie: Technically it is, but only for a GLOCK and only if one shoots oneself in the leg while trying to unholster or reholster the weapon. GLOCKs only have a trigger safety as their manual/external safety. Unless it is depressed the trigger won’t travel and the sear and striker won’t engage to fire the weapon. GLOCKs do not have grip safeties, nor do they have thumb/manual safeties. They do have to the standard internal safeties to prevent discharging the weapon if it is dropped or bumped.
Adam L Silverman
@ThresherK (GPad): Castle Doctrine is related, but different. Again, I’ll defer to Omnes, but I don’t see how these folks can claim that the Federal facility that they are illegally occupying is their domicile or place of business.
Adam L Silverman
I just updated with this up top:
Les Zaitz is reporting on his twitter feed that the US Attorney for Oregon, the Supervisory Special Agent in Charge (SSAC) for the FBI (most likely the Portland Field Office), and the Sheriff (most likely Harney County Sheriff Ward) will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10:30 AM PST.
I’ll try to see if I can’t get a live feed put up for it tomorrow.
Aleta
Excerpts from an interesting article (at least to me, since I get power from an electric coop with its own oddities):
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Yep, castle doctrine only applies to one’s home – and it still has many limitations. These guys illegally took over a federal facility, fucked with it, and threatened federal LEOs. They are screwed.
Omnes Omnibus
Odd that the drone them contingent hasn’t shown up.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Who will honor this Bundy?
Clutching a dildo
One heron glides in moonlight.
PS My autocorrect really doesn’t like the word.dildo. Perhaps that’s a good thing.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed. And the way this wrapped up made a lot of sense. Had Bundy and the rest of the leadership not all traveled together or even stayed put and had the Grant County folks come to them, they’d have been safe for a few more days. By going all together and being well away from everyone else, they made it easy to take them all at once.
The issue now will be what happens at the refuge. Apparently Gary Hunt, an associate of Ryan Payne, is on site and has put a call out to their “Operation Mutual Defense” for Oath Keepers, III%ers, and Pacific Patriot Network members to immediately go to the refuge and defend the occupiers.
Aleta
I hope the horn players will stick around to keep everyone’s spirits up tonight.
amk
@Adam L Silverman:
Great, more nutters. So, will the feds arrest them going in or coming out?
Adam L Silverman
@amk: I have no idea.
lgerard
@Aleta:
That letter is too funny
He only left out the part about collecting drought subsidies while at the same time insisting you can graze your cattle on drought restricted land because there is no drought.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: They took a bunch of leaders. How do you, as an expert, suggest that they take the next steps?
Me? I think that grabbing the most committed people, which is what just happened, will make the surrender of the rest more likely. I may be wrong. It’s happened before.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
You are the one high five-ing yourself about knowing all about feds tactics all along, you tell me.
But common sense sez, arrest them as they arrive.
The Pale Scot
@Adam L Silverman:
That is just so eloquent.
Row well and live sheriff…… Row well and live..
sigaba
@Adam L Silverman: Could we somehow turn the 3%rs against the 1%ers? I have some contacts with Mongols MC :)
burnspbesq
@Adam L Silverman:
Narrows – Princeton Rd. is pretty much the only way for reinforcements to get in. Block both approaches on Oregon 205 and block the east end at Oregon 78, and the only way in is by water.
The Pale Scot
@amk:
Freezing their bank accounts and credit cards, and put a lien on their land.
How these guys thought that they could run an agro-business outside of the financial system escapes me.
Aleta
Feeling sad for the locals, cause I don’t think the takeover attempt will settle down even after this. With elections coming up for Sheriff Ward and Sheriff Palmer, the outsider influences will keep raging and funding (Kochs?) to try to put a “constitutional” sheriff in Harney County. I think in the beginning the Bundys thought they might be able to pressure Ward into “taking a stand” in their favor. He must have taken incredible amount of heat. Brave guy; veteran of Somalia and Afghanistan, and an Army medic.
opiejeanne
@Punchy: I see what you did there.
Aleta
@lgerard: hah, good point.
The Pale Scot
@The Pale Scot: Elegant dang it… Elegant
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Have you been one of the people calling for action now? If so, what do you want? Me, i wanted patience and as peaceful as possible a resolution of this as possible. I am comfortable with what is happening. I didn’t claim to know what the Fed’s tactics would be. i just suggested that they might have something in mind.
If you think I suggested otherwise, please link to my offending quotes.
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus: if we could only drone their Pride, sir.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have already told what is the sensible thing to do. Next?
As for the other thing, you should read your own posts here. Life is too short to humor you.
AxelFoley
@Sad_Dem:
Yeah, I hope that sheriff finds himself in the unemployment line. And I’ll not shed a tear for them assholes. Hell, I wanted Feds to really fuck them up.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Okay, if you think that I said that it will all end peacefully, you have your head up your ass. Read what I said. Or just fuck off. I called for patience. It seems to be working.
burnspbesq
There is some serious stupid littering my Facebook feed tonight. Notable is some person called Bob Kincaid, who apparently not only knows what is in the indictments, but knows the charges are a manifestation of white privilege.
Davebo
MSNBC and Reuters report they have set a perimeter around the refuge compound now.
With any luck the remaining wack jobs will give up once they can no longer do dinner and a movie on the weekends.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
Gladly. You are a fucking borehttps://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png anyway.
Davebo
@Omnes Omnibus:
Of course it also could have worked at one of several other “meetings” where the leadership road tripped into Burns.
The feds blew it letting this stunt go on as long as they did.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
He wanted movies and the wild west. Shootout at the OK Corral. With machine guns, possibly that long gun that you posted a picture of the other day. Anything as long as blood, guts and gore were abundant you’re good to go.
A few others, like yourself, wanted the cops to be professional, not like the cowboys that jump out of their cars and immediately shoot 12 yr old black kids for the crime of being born black. That is a crime, isn’t it? It isn’t you say? Imagine that. Not a crime to be born or born black or whatever, who’d a thought.
seaboogie
@Davebo:
Does your particular expertise come from direct combat experience like Omnes and Adam, or are you one of the “chairborne” tactical experts?
Adam L Silverman
New reporting: Ryan Bundy and LaVoy Finicum disobeyed orders to surrender and resisted arrest.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/bundys_in_custody_one_militant.html#incart_maj-story-1
It’ll be interesting to see what gets reported at the press conference tomorrow. Unfortunately, even if they have video showing what went down, there will be claims its doctored or faked or whatever to cover up the real truth.
PhoenixRising
@Davebo: Today was the first announced trip across federal land.
Possible that had something to do with the timing?
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: I was very fortunate. Other than some incoming fires at a Combat Outpost I was working off of for a bit, I never came under fire – directly or indirectly, during my deployment. Spent about 1/2 my deployment outside the wire engaging with the locals, but was just fortunate that when I was out and about things were calm and stable.
PurpleGirl
@Aleta: Thank you for this information on the electric service. From what I know about electric transmission it is a complicated thing. They were working on keeping their power transmission reliable. It isn’t like turning a light switch on and off. (I once worked in the Public Utilities group of major law firm and worked primarily on electric issues.)
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman: I feel for the agent who had to make that dumbass die for his beliefs, but it should be some help with the paperwork that the victim of this particular LE shooting had bragged on video that he’d never be taken alive. This week.
Won’t help with the conspiracy theories, but it’ll make their jobs easier to complete.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: My guess is there were plenty of dashcams and bodycams. They’d have been really stupid to set up a take down attempt like this without making sure they could get everything on video.
Adam L Silverman
Time for me to rack out. See you all on the flip side.
Cliff in NH
Stupid fuckers are posting vids to youtube LOL.
HAlp we need more gunz!!
They arrested a bunch of us and shot one of our guys.. I’m ready to die..
HaLp!!
and a tribute to the fallen – in the category ‘gaming’ just a few min ago. yea, it’s a game guys.
Stupid morons.
even stupider tag for the tribute: #LibertyOrDeath
ruemara
I feel zero, 0, sympathy for these assholes. Only for their children, as they are and were dangerous malcontents intent on overthrowing the government through violence and intimidation. I’m just glad that no one else was hurt but one rat bastard.
Wrb
Sheet I just want the grazing leases. ess than 10% of free market rate, around two bucks for a calf and cow per month.
Insane, but as as long as such insanity is available, I want some
Wrb
Jesus, the editing function isn’t working. I tried
lgerard
evidently cheap grazing rights are not enough, some of these guys are determined to get to heaven and get their 72 cows
sigaba
@Adam L Silverman: I wonder if Ammon and the crew will have video. If I were going to try some sort of armed standoff with the government, I’d have my M4 in one hand and my RED Scarlet in the other. The latter is going to be more useful in the long-term.
max
@ThresherK (GPad): But one of these jamokes occupying the preserve’s buildings, then considering it “their castle”, I could see happening.
Given the stuff they’re yelling right now, I’m wouldn’t be surprised to see them try to castle. Ahem. Also the gold fringe on the American flag indicates its a maritime court and they can’t enforce federal law! HAH!
The inability of the coop network to cut power explains the continuing power at the refuge. I expect the very long distance shooting capabilities of the occupiers explains the unwillingness of the Feds to close up to the building, unless they were going to conduct an assault (which would have been a massacre as Omnes said and disproportionate of the offense). Wanting to roll the entire leadership in one go explains the delay in arresting occupiers leaving the refuge. So, OK. Makes sense now.
The downside to these guys calling for reinforcements is that a bunch of them will now show up, continuing the escapades. The upside is – they’re all going to be gravitating like flies to flypaper, and the flypaper is out in the middle of nowhere. So I guess we’ll be reducing the number of the guys on the loose.
max
[‘Could be worse.’]
sm*t cl*de
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Allow me to provide the illustration.
Bartolo Fink
(Interrogation Room)
FBI AGENT: Hello Mister Bundy. May I call you Ammon?
BUNDY: (defiant mumble)
FBI AGENT: I’d like you to meet a friend of mine, he’s going to join us during our chat. (Holds up hand). This is my friend right here. Do you want to know what I call him? THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! (Begins slapping Bundy).
(Later)
SECOND FBI AGENT (Chief Wiggum voice): Where’s your constitution now, Flanders?
M. Bouffant
@Aleta: I’ve also heard that cutting the power could result in frozen water lines & other damage to the refuge.
M. Bouffant
@Davebo: Much better to get them in an isolated area, away from innocently by-standing Burnsians & the armed loons wandering the streets.
M. Bouffant
@max: I doubt many of their friends will show up now. Although if any do they’ll probably be the looniest of the loons.
Anne Laurie
@max: From the Oregonian article:
Did everything but tie a big ribbon with a gift tag TAKE US NOW on the aerial, didn’t they?
Wild-arse middle-of-the-night guess: The Ammon brothers were getting funding from somewhere, and they’re not smart enough to have managed even this much on their own, so the Feds would like to know more about that. Finicum was a True Believer suffering from a midlife crisis (coming to the end of his career mooching off th’ gubmint) looking to die in a blaze of glory. Brian Cavalier, aka ‘Fuzzy Unicorn’, seems to be nucking futz. Ditto “Captain” O’Shaughnessy — but O’Shaugnessy at least had the smarts to be well out of the line of fire when the authorized armed guys showed up, as did common or garden grifters Jon Ritzheimer (who ran all the way back to Arizona, so’s he could make some more SEND MUNY pleas online before surrendering) and Pete Santilli. Looks like Shawna Cox was intended as a human shield (with or without her consent).
Gonna be interesting, finding out which of the “militia” were informants — and for which agencies (and/or other “patriot movements”…
M. Bouffant
@Anne Laurie: The Bundys do have all that money they’ve saved from not paying their grazing fees.
opiejeanne
@Anne Laurie: I think his name was Fluffy Unicorn, but I keep wanting to make it into Fluffy Bunny.
Obama in Shades
@srv: You say it like it’s a bad thing.
Adam L Silverman
@Obama in Shades: I have no idea what he’s actually saying in this case. I’ve publicly acknowledged here in a summary bio attached to some of my first guest posts that I’ve worked for the Federal government either as a term limited mobilized civilian/civil servant or as a contractor. So if that’s what he’s suggesting, then guilty as charged.