I can’t pinpoint a moment, but over the past couple months the Conventional Wisdom seems to have congealed around the proposition that Marco Rubio should be the eventual GOP nominee — the fresh-faced, charismatic “establishment” Not-Trump who can, with sufficient effort, unify the party and bring the voters to the polls. (Ted Cruz thought he could be that figure, but it turns out the only way Cruz unifies people is in their vast universal loathing of Ted Cruz.) The perceived problem is finding a winning template, an elevator pitch for primary voters that’ll convince them Young Marco is their best bet. Report from the Washington Post‘s Ben Terris, back in November: “Marco Rubio is just the guy to win the youth vote. Or so the old folks think.”:
COUNCIL BLUFFS, Iowa — Marco Rubio — he of the unlined cheeks and recently paid-off student loans and strongly felt preference for Tupac over Biggie Smalls— might be just the thing to get young people to come out and vote Republican in 2016.
“I hope that the young people won’t keep being bumfuzzled by Democrats,” said Larry Trickle, a 77-year-old who came to see the senator speak at a Holiday Inn in Council Bluffs this week. “Here’s a guy that can speak their language, and maybe teach them a thing about work ethic.”
Sure, there were only a handful of folks younger than 35 at this ballroom rally packed with a couple of hundred Iowa voters. But to Larry’s wife, Sue, 70, it was a youthful crowd compared with other GOP events she had been to recently.
“You should see them,” she said. “The average age of most is like 70s or 80s. Here, it’s got to be all the way down to the 50s!”…
Rubio, 44, paints himself as the “generational candidate,” one with fresh ideas who can shake up his party and, ultimately, an election. It’s a savvy tactic for turning one of his potential negatives — his inexperience — into a positive. A similar approach worked for Barack Obama in 2008, when he was also a freshman legislator who hated the Senate; he mobilized massive numbers of young people to cast their ballots for him.
But the Florida Republican’s message of youthfulness has not resulted in many youthful supporters so far. In a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, Rubio received 16 percent support from Republicans 65 and older, compared with 12 percent among those ages 50 to 64 and 7 percent among those younger than 50. He might be, as Michael Kinsley famously said about then-Sen. Al Gore, “an old person’s idea of a young person.”…
In mid-December, the Washington Post did a long report on a real-life Miami Vice story from the late 1980s:
…[Orlando] Cicilia, a large, sturdily built Cuban immigrant, had played an intimate role in Rubio’s early life. But as the future senator from Florida was finishing high school and preparing to go to college, his brother-in-law’s illicit career as a cocaine dealer was exposed in a major trial. Cicilia was eventually sentenced to a lengthy prison term in one of the biggest drug cases of Miami’s baroque cocaine-cowboys era.
Rubio, who was 16 at the time of the arrest, does not mention the ordeal as he runs for president, casting his family’s Cuban American immigrant story as the embodiment of the American Dream.
There is no evidence that Rubio or his parents were aware of Cicilia’s drug dealing, and Rubio’s sister was not suspected of any crime. But a deep look at those turbulent years — drawing on previously unreported Drug Enforcement Administration field reports and grand jury testimony, interviews with federal task force agents, and the senator’s writings — reveals that Cicilia was a central figure in the smuggling operation at the same time that he was integrated in the life of the Rubio family.
While the case was widely covered at the time, many details of Cicilia’s top-level role in the smuggling operation have not been previously reported, in part because they were stored in court files that were antiquated and difficult to access, as well as in remote archives. Cicilia served as the “front man” in the drug ring headed by Mario Tabraue, a kingpin who ran an exotic-animals business and kept spotted leopards on the walled grounds of his mansion, according to interviews and court records. Cicilia looked and sounded the part, wearing paisley suits and rakishly calling cocaine “a pretty thing,” according to court records and interviews with lead investigators….
Sure, lots of perfectly acceptable presidential candidates and presidents have had embarrassing relatives. (One facet of Reagan’s ongoing popularity is that he was an only child, so there were no jokes about Libyan envoys or Silverado S&L.) But it would explain why the Romney campaign dropped Rubio’s name from the VP list so quickly — stories about cocaine smuggling and tiger-guarded Caribbean compounds would have been a nasty shock to the Mormon elders. And it left Rubio’s 2016 supporters scrambling for a… somewhat more scuffed-up analog. Hapless Frank Bruni, today in the NYTimes:
… He’s frequently been called the Republican Obama — because he’s young, a trailblazing minority and a serious presidential contender while still a first-term senator.
But a prominent G.O.P. strategist told me that Rubio reminds him more of another Democratic president.
“He’s the Republican Bill Clinton,” the strategist said, referring to the slickness with which Rubio shifts shapes and the confidence with which he straddles ideological divides.
He’s a conservative crusader, happy to carry the banner of the Tea Party. He’s a coolheaded pragmatist, ready to do the bidding of Wall Street donors.
“Rubio is triangulating,” Eleanor Clift wrote recently, choosing a Clintonian verb to describe his fuzzy, evolving positions…
He communicates a message — a gleam — of hope. He’s a smoother salesman and more talented politician than most of his Republican rivals. That’s why I still buy the argument that he’s the one to watch, especially given his party’s long history of selecting less provocative candidates over firebrands…
…[O]ver the last three decades, no Republican or Democrat — with the exception of Bill Clinton — lost both Iowa and New Hampshire and survived that crisis in momentum to win the nomination. If that’s Rubio’s path, it’s an unusual one…
Okay, “Just like our worst enemy, Barack Obama!” didn’t work out so well as a sales pitch. But that Clinton guy — everybody loved Slick Willy, or at least admired his gifts for charming voters, not to mention his talent for escaping every trap set by his many enemies. Surely “our very own Bill Clinton, for the new millennium!” would be the perfect meme to sell Thirsty Young Marco to the committed Republican voters!
If only Rubio could be a little more thirsty, in the Urban Dictionary sense. He just doesn’t seem to want to work at campaigning, the way Bill Clinton famously did. But that’s a whole different issue, for a future post…
This @mckaycoppins anecdote about Rubio is the quintessential "everything wrong with modern politics" quote. pic.twitter.com/gdJoQAqcSc
— google it yourself (@SeanMcElwee) January 2, 2016
Mudge
Of course I wonder if Rubio’s brother-in-law has had his voting rights restored..unlike most “other” Florida ex-felons.
Patricia Kayden
Rubio is a forced birther, anti-choice, anti-immigration reform, NRA-controlled, typical Rightwing extremist Republican. Not sure what is so intriguing about him.
Botsplainer
Of all the things to hate about Rubio, the brother-in-law thing is low level. Every “first wave” Cubano family that escaped Fidel’s revolution is larded with rogues, thugs and assholes – I’m surprised that his cadres were able to keep the lists of people who needed killing so small.
On another note, I was watching Silver Streak this morning. It’s no wonder passenger trains fell so far out of favor in the 70s – damn things looked wretched and uncomfortable, all aluminum trim and cheap wood paneling in the compartments, windows adorned with ugly polyester curtains.
Scott S.
Seems like the bit about accepting $40K in bribes multiple times should be a career killer, as in “arrested by the feds, sentenced to Leavenworth.” Of course, in modern America, the only real crimes are committed by brown people.
Baud
@Botsplainer: I love that movie.
Derelict
I doubt Rubio will be the nominee, if for no other reason than that he really is quite dumb. I met him before he was anything more than a grasping Young Republican, and our one conversation centered on single-payer healthcare. “Your taxes would have to go up,” he told me. “Sure,” I said, but my taxes could go up $18,000 per year and I’d still break even.” “But, you’d pay more taxes!” he replied. And that was the next 5 minutes of “conversation” with young Marco–he simply could not grasp anything about the topic beyond “taxes would go up.”
So when he makes it a selling point that he was “not the Establishment choice” to become Florida’s second senator, he elides the reason why: The Florida Republican Establishment recognizes that Rubio is not simply dumb but dangerously dumb. And they’d rather he stay far away from any position of power.
RaflW
Frank Bruni quoting Eleanor Clift. Can we get any more circular and insularly fake-liberal (particularly in Clift’s case).
Elizabelle
Work ethic? Isn’t Rubio the guy who barely shows up for his day job?
How bumfuzzling.
The Republic, Blah Blah Blah...
No, hell no… for all his obvious flaws, Bill Clinton had a real IQ and was actually a pretty good POTUS.
Rubio, on the other hand, is a vapid, soulless hand puppet bought, paid for, and owned 100% by the monied interests who helped put him in office… if the young’uns aren’t being as bumfuzzled by Rubio as the GOP elders had hoped, perhaps it means the young’uns aren’t as easy to bumfuzzle as hoped…
Roger Moore
@Scott S.:
And I guess Cubans are honorary whites.
The Republic, Blah Blah Blah...
@Botsplainer:
That’s actually a good metaphor for Republican politics…
debbie
@Botsplainer:
Ironic that what’s used to explain/justify Cuban immigrant misdeeds is what’s used to condemn and bar Mexican/Central American immigrants.
MattF
In fact, the RE lands on Rubio through a process of elimination. They say, “It’s got to be Rubio” and then try to find his redeeming qualities. Doesn’t really seem to bode so well for young Marco, but we shall see.
rikyrah
They’ve been angry since January 20, 2009
……………
Poll: Republicans angrier than Democrats
January 03, 2016, 09:00 am
More than three quarters of Republicans, 77 percent, said they now get angry at least once a day, compared with 67 percent of Democrats.
White Americans are also angrier than African Americans and Latinos, pollsters found.
Fifty four percent of whites said they find themselves feeling angrier more often about current events. Thirty three percent of African Americans said the same thing, as did 43 percent of Latinos.
Pollster said there is a strong correlation between a high degree of anger and “the sense that the U.S. is no longer the most powerful country in the world; that the American dream is dead; that the gap between the rich and poor is widening; and that one’s life didn’t turn out as well as one had imagined when they were younger.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264600-poll-republicans-angrier-than-democrats
rikyrah
@Mudge:
That is a good question.
Baud
I shall have to figure out how to use that word more in everyday conversation.
msdc
…Are we sure this isn’t the Onion?
Mike in NC
Rubio is selling the same old snake oil that the rest of the Klown Kar have bottled, including another disastrous war in the Middle East. The media seems overly impressed that such a callow mediocrity might appeal to a few people under the age of 80.
Baud
@msdc: Ha. I checked the link to make sure. It’s subtly snarky for the MSM.
Frankensteinbeck
The parade of ‘Not Trump’s continues…
gene108
@Patricia Kayden:
He’s young, so it shows Republicans are not just the Party of old white people.
Unlike Cruz, who is about the same age, Rubio has not pissed off as many Republicans in Congress.
And unlike Cruz, Rubio is more than willing to shift positions to please the powers that be, as Cruz is a Fundy true believer at his core.
In short, Rubio is young for a Presidential candidate, reasonably amiable with his co-workers and can be bought.
amk
rubio is clinton doesn’t compute at any level , be it charisma, policy chops or political savvy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“Mr Trickle, who was quite concerned with young people and bumfuzzlery….”
A sentence out of Dickens, or maybe a draft Oscar Wilde never published.
Rubio has come out pretty strongly against marriage equality, and I think that even to people who are ambivalent about it, that’s a stance that’s going to sound odd and retrograde these days.
Amir Khalid
Why Rubio indeed? He’s not particularly appealing to anyone. And a few months ago, weren’t people thinking of him as a VP candidate in waiting? His personal issues aside, he seems too callow for the top of the ticket.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ve read a few unspecified comments that Rubio has pissed off John McCain. Maybe he doesn’t respect his elders like a young man should. Or he plays that rap music in his office and you can’t even hear yourself think!
ETA:@Amir Khalid: A few months back, the story was that Walker (that many months ago) and Kasich thought VP Rubio would win them the Florida, the young persons and the Hispanic votes.
Villago Delenda Est
@Elizabelle: That jumped out at me too, Elizabelle. Rubio is the last guy in the world who offers a “work ethic”.
Schlemazel
@Patricia Kayden:
He has a nice face & speaks sweetly so you don’t feel so bad while he is sodomizing the nation. That is what makes him scarier than Cruz or Trump.
msdc
@Baud: Is our media learning?
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore: Cuban immigrants who fled Fidel are mostly white. They fled because Fidel took away their peasantry.
There’s a reason why Cuban-Americans are not very well liked by the rest of the Latin American-Americans.
Villago Delenda Est
@msdc: They will learn nothing, even as they’re riding the tumbrels.
sdhays
I don’t recall reading anything in 2006-2008 about how Barack Obama “hated the Senate”. I never got that vibe at all. He’s just a guy who saw an incredible opportunity open up earlier than he might have expected and took the plunge. Rubio isn’t a tenth as smart or charismatic as Barack Obama; if he was, he would be dominating right now. The comparison to Obama and Clinton is so laughable I just can’t believe they keep trying to make it. It would be like if I tried to tell people I’m the non-famous version of Justin Timberlake, even though I’m not “sexy”, can’t sing, and can’t dance. Comparing oneself to someone in an entirely other league merely emphasizes your own deficits. It just floors me that they keep actually saying these things.
Schlemazel
@Roger Moore:
I have a Cuban born friend who like to tell the story of calling his mom while he was away at college to let her know he was dating a Cuban girl. He thought this would make her happy. The first words out of her mouth? “Is she a white or a black Cuban?”
You’ll notice it is mostly the light to white Cubans that ran to the US, I’ll leave it to others to guess why that was.
EDIT: and I see @Villago Delenda Est: explained very succinctly.
Tommy
@Mike in NC: How about it. I got many issues with how Obama has handled things in the Middle East and how Clinton says she will handle it. Hint: I think we need to get our troops out of there and stop bombing and droning people. Now!!!!!!!!
Head to a place like Jane’s Defence Weekly and spend just a few minutes doing research. There are any number of nations in the region, that should have far more “skin in the game” than we do, that we sell and/or give aid to so they can buy billions in military hardware annually. They basically have the same hardware we’re using in the region right now. I mean we train their troops there and bring them here to CA so they can train directly with us in a CA desert.
And you factor in nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, they have plenty of troops/soldiers, although Saudi Arabia calls them “Security Forces.”
When people laugh at Bernie when he says he envisions a similar solution, I’d only add if the nations in that region we call “allies” really, really believed and watched as we moved out of the region, I bet they’d take action. Maybe not the action we’d prefer/suggest, but action none the less.
PaulW
The thing the media elites aren’t talking about is how Rubio has one of the lowest Unfavorable numbers among the GOP candidates. That’s what they are hanging their hopes on. Which they are interpreting to mean that most people MAY like him if he ever gets a chance to present himself on the national stage as a solo act.
Problems are: 1) he’s just not a good campaigner at the higher levels (what worked at a state level in a place like Florida doesn’t work elsewhere), 2) he’s an Establishment candidate for a GOP primary that’s gone full Anti-Establishment, with little of an actual voting record to impress general voters should he even survive to the nomination.
The media elites just can’t embrace Ted Cruz – not yet – and still can’t take Trump seriously, and Jeb has been so flat a candidate that few of his family’s defenders are even publicly acknowledging his campaign still exists.
That said, here’s my Rubio bumper sticker: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gHpE3u-TZYQ/VnwPCtqbnQI/AAAAAAAABXo/vSFejF3LS_4/s1600/2016_rubio3parodybumpersticker.jpg
Captain C
@Patricia Kayden: He’s young, pretty, and a little…exotic looking compared to the rest of the field.
Fred
Yup. Young Marco’s dumb and directable just like the GOPer king makers like ’em. Now all he needs is some charisma. He keeps lapsing into that “duuh” look he had while he was chugging from that plastic bottle. Bright as a small appliance bulb.
Can’t understand why the kids don’t like him.
Villago Delenda Est
@srv: Oh, not that old canard. You’re incredibly lame.
sdhays
@Elizabelle: From what I’ve read, he doesn’t really show up to his campaigning job either. He has taken two jobs, and is doing both of them lazily and poorly.
Vote Rubio!
redshirt
You know how Clinton playing saxophone on the Arsenio Hall show won him the youth vote because he was so cool in those shades?
Rubio should rap on the Colbert show. Gold chains and all.
Baud
For a good bumfuzzling, vote Baud! 2016!
cokane
Rubio’s the only one to be afraid of. Well, Kasich would be a tough general candidate too, but he ain’t gonna win the nom.
Schlemazel
@sdhays:
Gee, a lazy, not very bright doofus running for the GOP nomination. That sounds very familiar, like a former President gifted us by the goppers.
dmsilev
@Baud: Baud 2016 breaks new ground with the first NSFW campaign website.
Tommy
@sdhays: That is what I keep hearing from the likes of Robert Costa of the Washington Post. Not in an article, but on his Twitter feed. One of the only reporters I follow on Twitter, because the guy seems to have his finger on the pulse of the Republican party more than anybody else out there. Plus he seems to have amazing access.
He often comments on the number and type of events this or that candidate is doing each day and in what state. Rubio most days has only two while others are doing 5-7, like from dusk till dawn. Rubio seems unable to do a “stump speech” or shake hands for any more than just a few hours a day.
I’ve never ran for POTUS but I hear you have to work just a little bit harder than that.
Emma
Ah, yes. Good old liberal Cuban hatred. The only Hispanics it’s ok to hate as a group.
No wonder Democrats can’t rely on any sort of Cuban vote — even the second generation.
Wormtown
How old is Bernie? 74? I went to see him yesterday in Worcester MA. Packed. And, largely young people. I am AARP age, and I definitely was in minority.
He was great BTW; but a tough choice between him and Baud :)
Captain C
@Schlemazel: At least two in my lifetime!
WaterGirl
@Schlemazel: “Is she a white or a black Cuban?”
Wow. Just wow. I had no idea.
dogwood
@sdhays:
Republicans are highly effective as a political party when they stay in their own lane. They know how to motivate their reliable base to turn out in state local and midterm elections. But when they need a broader base their insular ignorance does them in. Need young voters? Get a young guy. Have any of them ever noticed that some pretty old guys like Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul have and had lots of young supporters? They were dumb enough to hope that bringing in Alan Keyes to run against Obama would actually split the AA vote. And then there’s the Sarah Palin fiasco.
The Other Chuck
@Emma: Don’t break your hands wringing them in such concern.
Rashi
Clinton should campaign in mime. For her sake and ours.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: Somehow that reminds me of an old joke about the bilingual illiterate – he’s illiterate in two languages. (sorry)
dogwood
@Tommy:
So glad to see you back here, Tommy
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Rashi: Something happen?
Schlemazel
@Emma:
Yeah, they hate Cubans like they hate Jews, which is to say not at all. What liberals do not do is to put one groups ‘home nations’ interests above that of the US. Liberals care about what is best of America and the world before the narrow interests of one group of people in Israel or Cuba. That makes them enemies of those interests because they hate not having everything their own way including the US government. The hate is pointed at liberals not from them. But thanks for playing along & better luck next time – take a case of Rice-a-roni with you when you go.
dogwood
@Emma:
Obama did pretty well among second generation Cubans.
Tommy
@dogwood: Thanks. Good to be back. Just needed a break/some time away.
Emma
@Schlemazel: Thank you for demonstrating my point. And for, once again, showing that reactionary liberals whitewash their own history just as much as reactionary conservatives do.
RandomMonster
Meanwhile, some Bundy kids are setting the stage for Waco II: The Oregon Fail. It’s clear these idiots want an armed showdown with the Federal government.
Emma
@dogwood: He did because he was the first Democratic candidate that didn’t assume Cubans were Republicans are write them off from the start.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Emma: Because early Cuban American emigres were and are vehemently anti-Communist? That seems like a more prosaic explanation than your insistence that American progressives are racist against a certain type of Cuban.
WaterGirl
@Baud: The guy who wrote the book called Bumfuzzle is surely getting a lot of free advertising today.
It really is a great word.
father pussbucket
There you go. It’s those lazy young people and the blacks. Now get off my lawn.
The Other Chuck
@Emma: Why dontcha go ahead and define “reactionary liberal”? Hell, you’ve been whipping that wide brush around this long, why start now with making distinctions about different types of liberals?
The Other Chuck
My turn for macho posturing: add a year to their sentence for every day they occupy the building.
Gosh, no need for fucking drones, whodathunkit.
Rashi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No. I just think everyone would be best off if she did her speechifying without the vocals.
Emma
@Amanda in the South Bay: It might have escaped your notice but there are, what, three generations of Cuban-Americans in the United States now? Yes, they have connections to Cuba; more than half their families are still there! But they think of themselves as Americans with Cuban roots, much as people of Irish or German descent do. But if you think that insulting their families and writing them off is a winning strategy… well, go ahead, Democrats.
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
The word “bufuzzle” sound a bit … risqué.
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: Why did you leave out the M?
To me, bumfuzzle sounds much more fun than bufuzzle.
Botsplainer
@debbie:
You should read up on the history of that first wave – they got to Miami and continued frauds and dodgy shit. If you really want to have fun, go to the Cuban museum in Key West and read the lionizing plaques of the pre-revolution Cuban presidents, and compare that to their real history.
The last president before Bautista was a real estate developer in Miami after Castro, and managed to die (in a car trunk, IIRC) ahead of some Congressional hearings.
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
Is typo. I noticed too late to fix.
J R in WV
If Rubio’s brother-in-law was actually a cocaine king-pin, or even a second-in-command to one, he may still be in prison somewhere. I’ll bet Hillary knows where he is, and is waiting for the right moment to mention it. On a stage with Rubio, maybe, just ask in passing where Orlando is these days?
Maybe not, that could look mean once the R’s in the Spin Room get done with it…
Rashi
I thought “bumfuzzle” meant a bath fart.
Emma
@The Other Chuck: Really? You haven’t noticed from some of the posters here that they are as obnoxiously anti-democratic as any Republican? The ones who really want a liberal dictators (Obama could have used the power of his office to ___________, he sold us out!), the purity ponies (I’m not voting for ____________ no matter how miserable the country will be)? If you use Cleek’s pie filter, who are you blocking, some stray from Breitbart?
RandomMonster
“Reactionary liberals” like myself have long been suspicious of a constituency of rightwing Cubans in this country that used powerful influence to prevent the US from normalizing relations with Cuba and supporting rightwing dictatorships and death squads in Central America. It has nothing to do with race.
Botsplainer
@Villago Delenda Est:
Not only that, they had reason to flee as justice was coming for their crimes.
Amanda in the South Bay
@srv: So that means she’s going to win the nomination handily, got it.
Rashi
@srv: Isn’t Rasmussen a Republican leaning and unreliable poll? I think they were a consistent outlier in the 2012 race.
Emma
@srv: Oh goodie! Since everything that moron says has been wrong since forever, we can look forward to a sweeping win for the next President Clinton.
dmsilev
@srv: That’s excellent news for
John McCainHillary Clinton.Rashi
Annnddddddd game time. Adios. 45 Years is very good movie so go watch it.
Chris
I really, really love how they obstinately think that all it takes to reach out to young people is to drown them in pop culture references. They really do think of their audience as utterly shit-stupid, and it’s hard to blame them, because their most reliable voter base tends to be just that and motivated by exactly the same kind of meaningless references and shibboleths. (Flag lapel pins! Pickup trucks! GUNS, GUNS, GUNS!)
If I had a nickel for everyone I’ve heard called “the Republican Obama,” my student loans would be a distant memory too. As yet, not one of these people has reached the Obama achievement of winning a presidential election.
Anoniminous
So LIEbhruls hate Cuban-Americans and Clinton is losing because she’s leading by a mere 26%.
Got it.
redshirt
@srv: LOL. One of your better jokes.
oldgold
“0ne facet of Reagan’s ongoing popularity is that he was an only child.”
Reagan was not an only child. He had an older brother, Neil.
Villago Delenda Est
@dogwood: The assimilated ones. The ones who have written off getting back the old hacienda and the peons that went with it.
Villago Delenda Est
@redshirt: Next, a similar pronouncement from Bill Kristol to seal the deal.
JPL
@Anoniminous: Remember that Jeb has truckloads of money and is going to win.
dogwood
He’s out of prison and Rubio used his influence as a legislator to get him a real estate license.
Emma
@RandomMonster:Let’s start here. Cubans are not a race, neither are Hispanics. Each Latin-American/Caribbean country has a mix of races depending on immigration (forced and otherwise) and the survival of the local cultures/tribes. So don’t use the “you’re accusing me of being racist defense. It doesn’t work on me because I’m not talking about race.
Look, I’m tired. Keep on doing what you’re doing and the result will be a cultural subgroup that will sit out elections because they can’t find a political home.
Tommy
@Emma: LOL. How about it. I am no “raving fan” of Hillary, but Dick Morris might be the 1,876,437th person I’d use to quote about her election trouble/prospects. It has been years and years since I saw him a few times on Fox Noise and I felt he needed to be placed in a padded room then. I assumed he is even more unhinged now/today.
I know this will be a bold statement because there is some real “crazy” on Fox on a second by second basis, but the few times I saw him on a few segments I thought to myself that his doctor needed to drastically adjust his Lithium dosage. And I kind of mean that in a somewhat serious manner and not snark!
Chris
@Tommy:
This is already happening. Saudi Arabia’s been more proactive in military matters in the last few years than they probably have been in their entire history. They sent in troops to put down the Arab Spring and shore up the monarchy in Bahrain, they’re the ones leading the intervention in Yemen. IIRC they’ve been trying to shore up regional security systems through the Gulf Cooperation Council and Arab League too, preferably with themselves in the lead. We’ve already been pulling out to some extent compared to how we were in the 2000s, and even when we do involve ourselves it’s not necessarily in a way the Saudis would like, so they’ve been stepping up.
Villago Delenda Est
@JPL: Armored cars cruising the highways of America, just waiting for the right moment to unload their cargoes and sweep ¡Heb! into office. The plan that gave us President Rmoney will succeed again…it’s unstoppable!
feebog
@J R in WV:
His BIL is out of prison. I read a story a few days ago where Rubio recommended him for a realtor’s license a few years ago, using his office stationary. Should be worth an ad or two if Rubio does get the nomination.
I see Dogwood beat me to it.
Gin & Tonic
@oldgold: They meant “he was only a child.”
Anoniminous
@JPL:
Can’t remember all the way back to October. I have been bumfuzzled by Democrats.
Baud
@srv:
Here I come, baby. Baudmemtum is real!
Ruckus
@Emma:
You paint with a pretty wide brush there yourself.
You want to hate liberals that’s fine, but at least have a cognisant reason for it. Bullshit is always just bullshit.
Gin & Tonic
@Tommy: Good to see you around. Sorry to hear about your basement. I’ve dealt with similar quite a few times; luckily nothing is finished down there. Still I’d rather have water than fuel oil to clean up.
Gex
The comparison to Clinton seems to be mainly about finding a way to keep pushing Rubio even after he loses IA, NH, and SC without looking stupid.
Joke’s on them. This entire primary makes the Republican party look stupid. It’s not just about the policies. They appear to have been caught completely unawares that Citizen United was going to destroy their ability to control the party and nomination process.
Tommy
@Chris: Well not really. Any actions they are taking in the region, your mention of Yemen is a perfect example, is 110% in their self-interest and not the interest of the region. Many have argued, like Juan Cole (my go-to person for topics in the Middle East), they are hurting not helping the situation.
IMHO to use your logic then you would have to say Russia is being helpful in Syria. They may be involved, but again only in their self-interest and not helpful in the grand scheme of things/the region.
It could be easily be said we are doing the same I might add ….. nations do seem to favor things in their self-interest.
But until nations in the region with the military might start to put troops on the ground (both to fight ISIS and to bring stability to other areas) I have zero respect for any of them. If I was POTUS, and gosh that would be a terrible choice of the American people I might add, I’d threaten withholding military aid and put restrictions on any US defense companies selling them arms.
Clearly in my reelection campaign I’d get a lot less money from the “military industrial complex,” but I see no other stick/carrot we have to use.
Ruckus
@Gex:
They appear to have been caught completely unawares that Citizen United was going to destroy their ability to control the party and nomination process.
Of course they did. Money is like oxygen to them, life itself. The more you can throw at something the more you gain. They forgot that more morons would be pouring more money from more directions and be able to purchase more puppets to control. One small point and that is puppets are never seen as leaders, no matter how much is paid for them.
Botsplainer
Thus spoke Carlos Prio Socarras, the last democratically elected president of Cuba. He was the guy that Batista toppled before going on to a reign of stupidity and corruption so intense that he had to be removed in a bloody revolt.
Tommy
@Gin & Tonic: Oh it is a completely finished basement. Where my master bedroom is. I live in a spilt-level, so the basement is half above/below ground. Very typical for where I live and most don’t even really call them basements. But that is what it is if you really think about it for a few seconds.
Heck the room where I got most of my water is the largest room in the house by far. A quarter of the entire house and it is a five bedroom house. Been meaning to rework things and move my home office down there, because I have the space to do just about everything and I have run out of room in my current office space on the second floor.
Kind of happy I was lazy the last few years and did not invest the time and money to move my office, because things would have been a lot worse if my tens of thousands of dollars of computers, A/V equipment, books, and gaming systems were all down there.
Now I just need to get to cleaning now all the water is gone, but I got no energy left. It was a never ending battle last week to just fight back the water and get what got in out. When you have two sump pumps running and they can’t keep up, well that might be a sign we got too much rain :)!
Gex
@Ruckus:
Excellent point. Doubtful the base consciously sees it that way, but that probably has a lot to do with how everyone except for Trump is having trouble building support.
dogwood
@Emma:
Ok now you’ve lost me. Cuban Americans have had a political home since they arrived. Democrats spent over a half a century trying to prove to Cuban Americns that they really, really, really hated Castro. They voted for the policies Cuban Americans wanted despite the fact that those policies were a failure. None of that made Cuban Americans receptive to the Democratic Party. I applaud President Obama for putting an end to this ridiculous charade.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure Chuck Todd is leading a Very Serious debate about how Clinton saying Trump was used in Deash videos– when in fact it was a Dash-allied group– is another sign of her credibility problem.
RandomMonster
@Emma: Fine, it’s not about race then. My only point was that there are historical reasons that liberals distrusted that political constituency, and it’s not based on some irrational “hatred”. Plenty of liberals just didn’t like their politics, and with good reason.
Ruckus
@Gex:
That and the part that they are all terrible puppets who we never would even hear of if it wasn’t for all the money being thrown their way. Look at what’s his name who dropped out.
Suzanne
Old people are so cute when they’re being horrible assholes.
I want this lazy old fuck to come and teach me about work ethic. Ten bucks says he was one of those it’s-five-o-clock-so-GHOST people.
Anoniminous
@Gex:
The bottom line is: Conservatives can’t think, as in “the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.” At best they start with a conclusion and work backwards, at worst they Make Shit Up to score an immediate political point or goal.
sdhays
@Ruckus:
I see what you did there. :-)
Suzanne
@Chris: I notice this with my very Republican boss. He thinks Democratic voters go for tokens. He thinks Obama won among black people because he’s black, thinks Hillary will win among women because we give a giant fuck about only voting for women, thinks young people need someone young to vote for….and he thinks that Latinos will turn out en masse for Cruz or Rubio. I have tried to explain that “everyone votes their interests” to him, but since he doesn’t genuinely see me or any racial minorities as autonomous or intelligent, he cannot grasp it.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Chuckles the Toddler needs to occupy the lead tumbrel.
redshirt
@Villago Delenda Est: Please, there’s so many better choices then Todd. How about Ailes? Murdoch?
FlyingToaster
It looks like the Saudis caused much of the instability in Yemen, which led to young guys who would have been doing something productive (running a shop, fixing cars) giving up and reaching for a gun. And our drone strikes on those guys meant more guys were willing to pick up a gun.
We really should just bug out of the Middle East, because we’ve proven ourselves to be incompetent. All we do is fuck it up worse. Jeebus.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Finally, some leadership again violent Islamists!
All the Iranians who cooked up 9/11, Paris, San Bernardino and created all the chaos in Iraq.
Why are these novelty candidates on TeeVee at all?
Tommy
@Suzanne: Well that is because the right wing media machine pounds this thinking into their heads 24/7/365. It is easier for them to push their agenda if they think liberals are mindless, non-critical thinking blobs of human flesh.
I don’t want to vote for Sanders because he is a liberal. I want to vote for him because of his policies, which just happen to be liberal. It is not the other way around, because Sanders is a liberal I then agree with liberal policies! As you said we ALL vote our interest(s), or most of us do. I also vote for overall concepts.
Clearly I am male. Personally, I could never imagine suggesting to somebody I got pregnant she should have an abortion, but I am still strongly pro-choice, because IT IS NOT MY BODY AND NOT MY DECISION! See my mind can disagree with an individual action but it can be overridden by a more important concept, which is a person should be able to do with their bodies what they want and I shouldn’t have any say in it.
I mention this side mini-rant because it is something, when I talk to Republicans, and that is something I do a lot, they can’t seem to wrap their minds around.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
Red is right here. Without anything/one to bray about chuckles will be completely neutered. IOW less of a big dick.
jonp
Bumfuzzled? Yukon Cornelius called. I think he wants his folksy expressions back.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Michael Reagan did his best. If you’ve seen the movie “Guarding Tess”, I always figured he was the inspiration for Shirley MacLaine’s son
dogw
@Tommy:
“I got issues with how Obama. . . But. . . ”
“I’m no ‘raving fan of Hillary’ but. . . ”
I’m not picking on Tommy here, because this stuff has been ubiquitous on this site for 8 years. Bernie Sanders supporters don’t feel it necessary to do this , so I don’t understand why so many feel it necessary to begin with a disclaimer before they say something in support of Obama or Clinton. I’ve followed politics closely for over 50 years. It was my field of study, and while I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, when it comes to remembering political events, I’m still pretty darn sharp. All presidential tenures bring hits and misses, successes and failures, promise and disappointment. Having said that I can say without qualification or disclaimer that Barack Obama has been the best president of my lifetime, and I hope to live long enough to say that someone else was the best president of my lifetime.
Suzanne
@Tommy: I told him, “If I was only interested in voting for a woman, I would have voted for the McCain/Palin ticket, or for Michele Bachmann. I can assure you that neither of those things happened.”
Whatever. I shouldn’t try to enlighten them. I don’t want them to actually figure it out and be competitive.
PurpleGirl
@Roger Moore: The early wave of Cuban immigrants were white — more with Spanish blood than mixed blood of any kind.
Emma
@dogwood: You are still looking at it as if “Cubans” were a single constituency.They are not. Democrats were never going to get the older Cubans in national elections, ever,no matter how many contortions they performed. The reason for it was President Kennedy’s decision to pull back on the Bay of Pigs invasion WHILE CUBANS WERE ALREADY ON THE BEACH WAITING FOR THEIR SUPPORT. Sorry to scream but that’s the little dirty part that so many liberals skate over. Do you really think that my mother, who spent two weeks in prison because a distant cousin was one of the men killed on that beach and the government was chucking random relatives in jail as a example was ever going to forgive them? They were made promises and a Democratic president broke them, in the most damaging way possible.
But we have a chance with the younger ones, both born here and the more recent immigrants. They have moved on. But when the first thing that comes out of the mouths of Democrats is “write Cubans off” well, it’s not going to happen. Obama made a breakthrough because he treated them like he wanted them, and to his credit, he did. Very few of the younger Cubans give a flying fart about the new official contacts, no matter what they tell their abuelos, and Obama had banked good will with them. If we go back to the old ways, they will sit it out en masse.
scav
@Suzanne: Another approach might be to point out that repub men behave exactly the same, only havong such a plethora of choices, they invariably vote for the biggest dick.
pluky
@Roger Moore: Yep, since Ricky Ricardo.
PurpleGirl
@WaterGirl: I was dating a Cuban guy in college. Long story but my mother had reason one night to call his mother to see if he was home yet. (I’d gone to my first science fiction convention with him and few other guys.) My mother spoke Spanish to her. Manuel’s mother asked him “how did a NY woman learn to speak such CLEAN, Castillian Spanish and not that PEURTO RICAN MONKEY Spanish.
ETA: My mother’s first husband was from Ecuador.
dogwood
@Tommy:
“I got issues with Obama. . . but”
“I’m no raving fan of Hillary . . . but. . .”
I’m not picking on Tommy here because this stuff has been ubiquitous on this site for 8 years. Bernie Sanders’suporrter don’t do this so I don’t understand why so many feel it necessary to open with a disclaimer before saying anything in support of Obama or Clinton. I’ve followed politics closely for 50 years; it was my field of study. And while I can’t always remember where I put my keys my political memory is still in tact. The tenure of every presidency brings hits and misses, successes and failures, hope and disappointment. Thus I can say without disclaimer that Barack Obama has been the best president of my lifetime and I hope to live long enough to say the same about someone else.
Tommy
@Suzanne: Well they IMHO will never be competitive with large segments of our population, especially people under say 35-40. Or with women that want their healthcare plan to cover crazy shit like birth control. Or people that might love and want to marry somebody of the same sex. Or the Hispanic immigrant child, that is a US citizen because they were born here, but mother isn’t even though she worked 2-3 jobs, paid taxes, and never got in trouble, just to provide her child a better life.
Those are just three easy examples. There are many others of course. Clearly this is why Republicans in state after state are trying to make it harder to vote. Want more money in politics. The numbers by race and also demographics/psychographics are just horrible for Republicans almost across the board.
But as they said, “you made your bed, lay in it!” This is all of their own making. I don’t feel sorry for them in the last. As long as I can recall, and I am 47, people in their own party were warning them of these factors at play, and instead of listening and adjust if not their policies, then at least their public statements, they went further, let me say that again, they went further to the right.
patrick II
@Baud:
This seems an easy gabriela.e to play.
Trump polls at 25%, so 75% of republicans would vote for another candidate or are undecided.
Cruz polls at 18%, so 82% would vote for another candidate or are undecided.
Rubio polls at 10%, so 90% would vote for another candidate or are undecided.
Evidently none of these guys can win the Republican nomination.
dogwood
@PurpleGirl:
This made me laugh. I know from personal experience that Ecuadorians speak beautiful Spanish, and aren’t shy about telling you that. My grandchildren are Ecuadorian , and despite their many gringo ways, they are Ecuadorian through and through when it comes to being language snobs. Last Christmas in Quito my 6 year old grandson told me to stop speaking Spanish because it hurt his ears.
David Koch
@Tommy: Sanders isn’t a liberal. Liberals don’t work hand and glove with the NRA. They don’t repeatedly vote against immigration reform, condemning 12 million brown people to brutal, abusive economic existences. They don’t oppose gay marriage saying it is “divisive” and they don’t vote to keep GITMO open. Liberals don’t ignore people of color so they can obsess over Reagan whites. Liberals don’t reflexively vote to praise the Likud party every time they commit war crimes in the Palestinian territories and they don’t cheer lead for boondoggles for the military industrial complex, like the F-35.
Tommy
@dogwood:
Oh children. At Christmas my only niece was tasked with handing out presents. She grabbed one I had labeled for her mother. Sarah. She notified everybody I didn’t know how to spell Sarah’s name in a loud and proud manner. It would seem my printed “S” has straight lines and not rounded, as she has been taught in First Grade. Oh my “H” wasn’t right either.
Sarah, bless her heart explained to Katie that when we become adults, and you are in fact not an adult, you can kind of write how you want.
Later she told me my Fitbit Surge watch/fitness bracelet was ugly.
Oh she is going to break some hearts before she is done, she kind of says exactly what she wants (pretty proud of that BTW) with no fear whatsoever.
But she did say I smelled nice …. which was kind of strange coming from a 6-year-old. But I guess props to Kenneth Cole cologne :). At least I got one thing right.
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie: Your final link was a goldmine of anecdotes showing how vile our politicians are. This one about Chuck “DINO” Schumer was hardly surprising:
As long as we have DWS and Rahm Emanuel in the Democratic Party he won’t be our biggest turd, but he is a worthy contender for the title.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@dogwood: That it priceless! You must stop hurting that child’s ears.
gene108
@Gex:
Not much of a trade off in my opinion. Citizen’s United helped Republicans gain control of state houses, governorships and Congress.
If this Presidential contest looks like a mess for them, it is a price to pay for otherwise almost complete control of the rest of the U.S. government at so many levels.
The only risk, a minimal one in my opinion given the miracles of modern medicine, is a shot for a Democratic President to flip the SCOTUS, but I do not see either Kennedy or Scalia stepping down and neither is old enough to up and die until probably 2024.
John Paul Stevens is still alive and well.
The Supremes seem to be long lived.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Tommy: Sorry about your basement. Carpet is a bitch to get dry, and as already noted by someone smarter than I, the key to doing it right is counterintuitive – add clean water and then get rid of that multiple times. The folks talking about pulling any damp sheetrock are right – it’s not overkill. That shit can make damp carpet seem like a picnic, and is not healthy.
Brachiator
@PurpleGirl:
Interesting fantasy, but not remotely true, and also stunningly pointless.
For Cubans, as is the case for many Latinos, claims of blood are often little more than polite fictions, sometimes not even based on physical appearance, and have nothing to do with actual ancestry.
Race and class obsessed Latinos lie and deny outrageously about their aboriginal American and African ancestry.
Tommy
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Well good news is the folks that owned the house before me skimped on “finishing” it, just put installation and paneling up, not drywall. It doesn’t look terrible (nothing close to “great” either), but why I didn’t move my office down there, because I want to put up drywall first.
And yeah, I added more water, mixed with bleach (to kill the mold) that I have used multiple times. I should be down there now cleaning the carpet since it is dry, but I just got no energy after all the effort last week.
Tim C.
@srv: I call shenanigans! You *can’t* be this obtuse. You have to be a front pager or other high profile commenter her doing performance art. Dick Morris? Dick Morris? This Dick Morris? The one who said WV was a swing state in 2008? Here… read the whole thing and savor the map.
http://www.businessinsider.com/dick-morris-worst-predictions-fox-news-fired-cnn-2013-2
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Brachiator:
I’ll argue that in a sense those comments are “true” – to the extent that “white” is a signifier of class more than actual ethnicity. Thus in many real ways the first wave Cuban immigrants to the US were white. In Cuba they were “white” because that culture supported that view. In the US they were “white” because they were aristocracy on the run from the veils of communism.
I’m getting pretty abstract.
Just One More Canuck
@Emma: Doubly wrong since it’s Dick Morris citing a Rasmussen poll. srv completes the trifecta of wrongness
Brachiator
Rubio has so far escaped the consequences of a dastardly political act that should have Democrats and especially Latinos dumping all over him, and which should have deep consequences should he somehow become the GOP presidential nominee.
He’s been taking hits for skipping Senate sessions and “not doing his job.” But he made sure to take time to block an Obama ambassadorial appointment. From the LA Times and other sources:
Rubio plays butthurt politics with a slimy act of grievance which puts his anger over Cuba above larger US interests.
I would hope that at least one moderator would have the brains to bring this up during the next GOP presidential debate. And Democrats should make more of an issue of this.
J R in WV
I hate sheetrock, even when it’s dry, new sheets going up. Hate it. I can do it, but I would rather hire a friend who is gifted at it. The other guys call him Doctor Mud, because he only does it once, and it’s done. Slow but perfect.
Tommy, good to have you here, I hope your sleep is better. My experience is that physical tiredness will help. On the other hand, as a semi-disabled old guy, I’m using a prescription, which helps.
dogwood
@Tommy:
Great story. I’ve learned a lot from having bilingual grandchildren. When it comes to language they are the ultimate pragmatists. Same grandson, has an aunt and uncle in Quito who speak perfect English, but don’t speak it at home. When he would go there to play with his primos they would ask him to speak English. He eventually told his uncle, “I just want to play. You speak English you should teach them.”
Brachiator
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
I agree with you that US culture is ignorant of Latino colorism issues. Many Cuban immigrants are clearly, physically part black or part Indian.
Liberals should know better, but idiot liberals like to keep the lie alive that somehow these people were white or honorary whites because they think that this will serve some larger pro-Hispanic political agenda.
It is abstract only to the degree that many people have read about Cubans and assume that anti-Castro Cubans and the remnants of the Cuban upper class must be “white.” But they have obviously not met many real Cubans. And yeah, this seems to be the case with a number of Balloon Juicers, who keep gnawing at this bone.
Quick example: A co-worker was the younger daughter of a fiercely anti-Castro immigrant family. She is deeply pro Cuba, although I don’t know if she is a registered Republican. But she is also clearly of African as well as Latino descent, and was assumed to be African American by people who would just see her walking by.
Oh, and this woman’s grandfather was Cuban Chinese. Not even white in the abstract.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Timing is everything.
This is a great point to use against him IF he wins the nomination. If it’s used now it would probably win him points with conservatives for fucking with President Obama.
Now is the time to only hit the opposition leaders and then very carefully. You don’t want people coalescing around their most popular guy when no one has voted. And you don’t want to strengthen their weak guys. They are the opposition, never give them ammo of any kind. Their disarray is good for our side. We want to keep it that way.
Vhh
@gene108: All true, but unlike either Clinton, he sure seems to step on a lot of rakes that hit him in the face.
gex
@Suzanne: It all comes full circle. They are unable to empathize because they haven’t really grasped the theory of mind whereby they can understand how someone else may think and feel.
So Cheney is for gay marriage while other Republicans aren’t. The Reagans support stem cell research while other Republicans don’t. On and on.
And they vote for the white guy because he’s a white guy sufficiently dedicated to the tribe. And because that’s how they work, they figure that’s how we work.
gex
@gene108: I can’t disagree. They gained a lot. But then again, they want it all. And it really is important to keep an R out of the White House. We can’t take another W-like administration so soon after W.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@dogwood:
I adore that kid. I’d like to have one just like him. Even if the whole concept of grandkid is a bit jarring.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
You know, Obama also still has to run the country.
The US needs an ambassador to Mexico. Holding up nominations not only hurts the US, but also often puts the nominees into a significant financial hardship as they wait around for Congress to resolve the matter.
I think that voters, especially Latino Democrats, would remember how Rubio tried to put Cuban interests over larger interests.
Vhh
@srv: That’s the same Dick Morris who predicted a McCain win in 2008 and a Romney landslide in 2012. Betting against him and Kristol looks like a pretty sure thing.
opiejeanne
@WaterGirl: Our girls had a Cuban ballet teacher for a couple of years. Osmani Garcia. He was black; he defected during a tour with the Cuban Ballet, in Texas. He mentioned the color divide between Cubans.
Vhh
@RandomMonster: Yup, the biggest reason was the Bay of Pigs.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I haven’t seen any polling on Cuban-American reaction to Obama’s moves to Cuba, but IIRC there was a generational split on Elian Gonzales, almost twenty years ago.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
True that there was a lot of anger over Fidel taking away their peasantry.
Not true that they were mostly white. Many pretended to be “Spanish,” but that is not quite the same thing as actual ancestry.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Absolutely but the candidates are not the people to bring this up and it shouldn’t be brought up in a manner that reflects on the presidential race, only that a senator is blocking a qualified and approved person out of spite. An off hand remark by the press secretary maybe. Better yet a sitting senator.
ETA It’s not the what, it’s the how.
opiejeanne
@Brachiator: Ha! That is so true. My best friend is Guatemalan and is a blue-eyed blonde, but her uncle is very dark, very short, and strongly resembles the indigenous people. She pointed it out to me, laughing about the claims of only European ancestry her family makes. He was in trouble with the family because he had a second family with a woman not of European descent, not because of the relationship or cheating on his wife so much, but because the relationship was with one of “them”.
Dread
The problem isn’t just the messenger, it’s the message.
“I’ve got mine, fuck you” is the message that really only appeals to those born wealthy, sociopaths, Puritans, and racists.
If you had a really likable, charismatic candidate that could con America again, then maybe you might be able to get them to buy into that message, but I don’t think Marco is up to the task.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
I agree somewhat that the presidential candidates don’t need to lead with this, but I disagree that it should not be brought up in a manner that reflects on the presidential race.
The GOP think that they have a right to veto the results a presidential election if a Democrat wins. They are the primary authors of gridlock. They would absolutely pull this shit on Clinton or Sanders.
The Democrats need to quit running scared, and need to shake off any “both sides do it” nonsense when it comes to the Republicans actively preventing Obama from doing the job that he was elected to do.
And they need to hit Rubio early and often precisely because some of the GOP money boys are leaning towards him.
And as I noted earlier, this needs to be brought up before Republicans. Make them either own it and have to deal with it.
Zinsky
Rubio may be the biggest empty suit in American political history, which immediately catapults him to the top of this year’s very smelly heap of disgusting, worthless degenerates on the GOP side. However, the GOP always goes with the most experienced candidate, so I guess it will be Donald Trump, or a large pile of cow dung.
BBA
@Dread: “only appeals to those born wealthy, sociopaths, Puritans, and racists.”
To invert Adlai Stevenson, that’s enough. All they need is a majority.
Brachiator
@opiejeanne:
A while back I mentioned a great Puerto Rican poem, that includes the refrain that translates, “but your grandma, where she at?”
It’s about a man who hides his obviously black grandmother in the kitchen when his friends come over.
I know some Mexican Americans who insist that their children say that they are Spanish even though they clearly have indigenous ancestry and look it. The degree of denial at play here is amazing.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I think we may have to just disagree. After all we are only talking tactics here not substance.
My only real point is that republican voters would like that he is blocking a liberal president, no matter the reasoning. That’s a strong plus in their book. They are after all obstructionists, especially to anything that a black man needs/does so that’s a twofer to them.
Chris
@Tommy:
I’m not saying the Saudis are taking *good* actions. I’m saying that they perceive us as being less of a player in the region than we have been before, and have stepped in to fill the perceived gap. A lot of their actions are unhelpful to say the least, but heck, so were ours.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
No, you’re just wrong. ;)
Are you trying to avoid offending Republicans? The idea is to mobilize people who might vote for Democrats. And anything you can do to mobilize Latino voters is a plus for the Democrats.
Also, the GOP insists on pretending that they are the only legitimate political party in the US. They tried to shut down the government when Bill Clinton was president. They hate and fear Obama. But they will play this same obstructionist BS with Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.
Democrats need to play offense, because trying to be sly and quiet doesn’t work, especially in the Age of Trump.
mclaren
Very good article on Republicans vs. the Republican party over at the Ordinary Gentlemen website: “Broken Elephants, Part I.
Anne Laurie
@msdc:
Terris (the reporter) is the guy who first broke news on Rep. Aaron Schock’s ‘downscale Downton Abbey’ office renovations. He’s got a nose for these killer details!
Brachiator
@mclaren: Too much reading for a trivial and reductive proposition:
ksmiami
@sdhays: Actually to his credit, Larison has been saying the same thing about Rubio – and emphasizing that his so called foreign policy is completely retrograde and dangerous. But Rubio can’t be bothered with the “meager” role of Senator – why would anyone think he would be up to being a President 24/7? He really is a lazy shitheel
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I’m out. The desk has a boo boo where I keep smashing it with my hard head.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
No problem. No matter what we toss back and forth, it remains to be seen how the Democrats handle this.
What I find interesting is how Rubio waited until the holidays to pull this stunt. And obviously other events in the news are getting more coverage.
Chris
@mclaren:
Interesting. Not having followed right wing news all that closely (and it was never Fox News when I did try to pay attention), I didn’t realize just to what extent Trump had been promoted by them as a “leading expert on everything.”
mclaren
@Emma:
Thanks for telling that lie, Emma. It discredits you far more effectively than any argument of mine could.
Let’s be pellucidly clear:
Advocating that president Obama use legally prescribed power X of the office of the president of the United States does not equate to advocating a “liberal dictator.”
A “liberal dictator” is a Democratic president who runs roughshod over the law. A “liberal dictator” would be a Democratic president who, for example, sent his Attorney General out to claim that the fifth amendment constitutional right of “due process” was satisfied by firing a hellfire missile from a drone at a U.S. citizen. Constitutional scholars went into an uproar over that one. That was grossly illegal and obviously unconstitutional. You know who sent his AG out to make that claim?
Barack Obama, that’s who.
A “liberal dictator” is a Democratic president who gives a speech proposing a “legal framework” for kidnapping U.S. citizens without a warrant and slamming them into a dungeon forever without a lawyer, and without charges. That’s grossly illegal and totally unconstitutional, since it violates amendment 5 (due process), amendment 6 (right to trial by jury), amendment 8 (no cruel or unusual punishment) and amendment 14 (civil rights of a U.S. citizen may not be abridged).
You know who gave a speech proposing that kind of so-called “legal framework” for kidnapping U.S. citziens and hurling into a dungeon forever without charges, Emma? Barack Obama gave that speech. You can read a transcript of Obama’s disgraceful speech along with Rachel Maddow’s comments here.
Source: Rachel Maddow show, Thursday, 21 May 2009.
What I have been proposing (and what a lot of progressives like me have been advocating) is that President Obama starts using the gray areas in the law and the regulations and rules like signing statements and sequestering funds that have been used by Republican presidents since time immemorial. The president has a great deal of power and flexibility when it comes to exactly how a law is executed. Congress passes law, the executive branch implements it. But you know what? The executive branch has a lot of latitude is exactly how it implements a law.
For example, the president of the United States could say, tomorrow, “You know what — I think we should put marijuana prosecutions at the DEA at a much lower priority. Down around the priority of arresting dairy owners for making unpasteurized milk. Maybe even lower.”
That is not being a “liberal dictator.” That’s using your discretion as president. Or take another example. When congress says, “We’re goingt to pass a law saying you can’t close Guantanamo Bay,” the president can and should say, “You know what? You’re right. I’m not going to close Guantanamo Bay. I’m going to keep the guards on duty and the lights on, I’m just going to ship all the prisoners known to be innocent to other countries where they can be repatriated, and I’m going to sequester funds from one week of combat operations in Afghanistan to do it.”
That’s perfectly legal. That’s not being a “liberal dictator,” it’s getting around a obstructive congress exactly the same way FDR got around an obstructive supreme court in 1934.
There’s a whopping big difference, Emma between using the available legal tools of the presidency, like executive orders and signing statements and sequestering powers and changing the priority of enforcing wasteful crazy pointless laws, and being a “liberal dictator.”
Out here in the real world, Emma, real politicians have to constantly do end runs around the bureaucracy to get goverment to work. Let me give you an example. An effective president places people who are loyal to him in varoius positions in government, and when the bureaucrats try to sabotage what the president is trying to do, the loyal guys alert him. And the president calls the burueacrat into his office and says, “You’re trying to fuck me behind my back. Try it again, and either I will fire you, if I have the power, or I will reassign you to waste duty in an Antarctic weather station.”
President Obama did not do this with General David Petreaus, and as a result Petraeus blindsided Obama. When Obama wanted to draw down forces in Iraq, Petraeus leaked a negative stiuation report to congress to force Obama to keep troops in Iraq. Then when Obama went to the Joint Chiefs and told them to draw up a plan to start pulling troops out of Iraq, Petraeus and the joint chiefs presented Obama with 3 plans — all of which increased the number of troops. So Obama was stuck and had to agree to the “surge,” since that was the least bad plan we was presented with.
This is an example of a president who did not know how to use the tools of the office. Obama was not conversant with the rules and bureaucratic regs that form so much of the actual power of the presidency, and so he got fucked by Petraeus and America wound up staying in Iraq longer than we should have, and longer than Obama wanted to. Again and again, Obama wants to do decent sensible things like shut down Gitmo or withdraw troops from Iraq quickly, and the bureaucracy and Repubs in congress frustrate him. Finding and using the nitpicky bureaucratic rules like sequestering and signing statements and executive orders and recess appointments that let the president get done what he wants in spite of the bureaucracy he oversees and in spite of congressional opposition is not being a “liberal dictator.” It’s being an effective president.
DINOs like Emma are really movement conservatives pretending to be Democrats. DINOs like Emma come up with argument after argument after argument to justify why Democratic presidents suddenly have no power at all. Democratic presidents, according to disguised conservatives like Emma, are helpless impotent whimpering jellyfish with next to no power at all. Yet the moment a Republican president comes into office and does all sort of things like signing statements that nullify the laws congress passes, or sequestering funds to shut down agencies they don’t like, or appointing people to agencies like the FDA who actively work to negate the entire function of the FDA, why…then DINOs like Emma don’t utter a peep. No cries from DINOs like Emma that Republican presidents are being ‘conservative dictators.’ No, according to DINOs like Emma, Republican presidents who do these sorts of things are just being savvy effective politicians.
But the instant any liberal suggests that a Democratic president act as a savvy effective politician, that’s proposing a “liberal dictator.”
Go back to your Tea Party buddies, Emma, and tell them you failed to disrupt the Democratic website called Balloon-Juice.
mclaren
@Brachiator:
That’s not the whole point of the article. The article starts off, in fact, by pointing out that the Republican party is in the process of blowing apart, and something else is probably going to have to replace it soon.
We’re witnessing something historic here. The Republican elites hate Trump but the Republican base has broken with the Republican establishment and is now out of control. This means that the Republican party is fracturing and it’s not clear how or if the Republican establishment can regain control of the party. As we saw in the last presdential election, the Republican establishment pissed away fantastic amounts of money to no effect. We’re seeing the same process accelerating in this election cycle — Jeb has already urinated away circa 100 million dollars, and he’s gone from 23% in the polls down to 3% and still dropping. That’s stunning. It means the money guys, the smoke-filled-room boys, the ones who have traditionally run the Republican party, are now unable to affect the Republican party.
That’s very big news.
How the Republican base and the Republican establishment will react, no one knows. But it’s going to mean big changes, and soon. The billion dollar guys who have traditionally formed the Republican establishment are now extremely dissatisfied and they are talking and acting on going their own way without the political consultants and the rest of the machinery of the Republican party, which they view as a mechanism for fleecing them of huge amounts of cash without giving anything in return.
The Republican base, in turn, is going its own way, and bolting away from the Fox-news-controlled top-down control of the Republican establishment. Fox News tried to destroy Trump and they failed, so now Fox has to back him. This has broken the set of levers that the Republican establishment uses to control the rest of the party.
Where this leads, I don’t know, but it’s damn sure fascinating to watch. A third party? Dunno. Disintegration of the Republican brand and the rise of a totally new party? Dunno. Will the Republican party fracture and dissenting Repubs start leaking into the Democratic party? Dunno.
I have not seen anything like this before in my lifetime. So this is new territory, and extremely interesting politically and sociologically.
Pogonip
@Baud: During the Baud Administration, the producer of Silver Streak will be the Secretary of Transportation.
Pogonip
@dogwood: @Villago Delenda Est: I wonder if Republicans are aware that a Mexican is not a Cuban is not a Dominican is not a Venezuelan? I suspect they’re not or they wouldn’t even be considering Cuban-Americans for a presidential run. Most of the Spanish-speaking U. S. population hates Cuban-Americans. (They’re not thrilled with gringos or African-Americans, either, so don’t fool yourself that the Democrats are off the hook.)
Bobby Thomson
@Chris:
BTW, since when is recently paid off student loans a marker for youth? Doesn’t signify that to me at all. I’ll still be making loan payments when I’m drawing social security.