This is not getting enough coverage, IMHO. On the day of the budget deal to handle a number of national priorities and to raise the debt limit, Ben Carson had this to say:
In a new interview with The Hill, GOP presidential candidate Ben Carson said he would not sign any budget deal that raised the debt ceiling if he is elected president.
Carson, who has surpassed Donald Trump in polls of Iowa voters, expressed frustration that Congress waits until the debt limit approaches to negotiate budget deals.
“If I’m elected, in January of 2017, we will begin to address the budget immediately,” Carson said. “We’re not going to wait until October or November to do it, when we’re backed against the wall. And I will make it very, very clear that there will not be any budget signed that increases our debt ceiling. It will have to be done.”
Carson said Congressional Republicans wait too long to negotiate deals to suppress federal spending.
“They do the same thing every year,” Carson said. “They wait until their backs are up against the wall and the gun is to their head, and you either raise the debt ceiling or we default and the world falls apart.”
“Why do we do that?” he continued. “I think the time to address that is at the beginning of the fiscal period, not at the end, because then you have other options. Now, they wait until it’s too late to do anything else, and we keep raising the debt and compromising the future of the next generation. It is craziness.”
Since regardless what happens between now and then and who is elected President, come Spring 2017, the debt limit will need to be raised again. We’ve already discussed that Ben Cartson doesn’t seem to understand what the debt limit actually is, and how this is different from the Republicans holding the US and global economy hostage. What Ben Carson is telling you, and our bobbleheads apparently don’t believe or think is just boilerplate election babble, is quite simple. It’s this:
“Elect me, and I kill the hostage.”
It’s really that simple. And with this lunatic, it’s not just talk. He’s really simpleminded enough that he believes this shit.
Gin & Tonic
Ben Carson demonstrably has no idea of the difference between “budget deficit” and “debt ceiling.”
dmsilev
It’s also quite possible that Ben Carson (a) doesn’t know what the debt ceiling is and (b) has no real interest in finding out.
patrick II
I think that at least he seems to have figured out what the debt ceiling is since last interviewed.
Gravenstone
Bobby Thomson
You seem to assume our bobbleheads know what the debt limit is. With few exceptions, I think that assumption is unwarranted.
BGinCHI
Does he think the fiscal year begins January 1st?
I think he has mental problems. I mean, beyond being a doctor and a Republican.
Gimlet
Not having a career in politics he just doesn’t understand the debt ceiling theater or economics in general (based on his comments).
If by chance he is elected to the office, consultants will sit him down and educate him as to the subject. That said, there is always the unfortunate example of Brownback to throw up as the exception.
RSA
“In the past you’ve voted for candidates with experience in government, knowledge of government. I’m different: I know even less than you do, and I don’t care. Vote for me. Nihilism 2016.”
JPL
The Constitution states that we will not default on our bills. The Constitution has more amendments than the first and second amendment.
JPL
The NYTimes is covering the debate… link
Heliopause
“Elect me, and I kill the hostage.”
Is that really what you get out of it? I’m having trouble making any sense out of it at all. He seems to be saying that the debt ceiling shouldn’t be raised but has to be raised, whatever that means. I think maybe what he’s driving at is this; I’m such a brilliant negotiator that we’ll have a bare bones budget in place long before the debt ceiling arrives and thus there will be no need to raise it. Which is nutty of course.
Felonius Monk
@Gimlet:
There won’t be enough planes and trains and boats to evacuate everyone that will want to leave.
raven
Carson hasn’t “figured” shit out. Someone might have told him but he didn’t figure it out.
chopper
@JPL:
according to these shmucks the whole shebang stops at ten.
Gin & Tonic
@RSA: Catchy slogan.
Frankensteinbeck
@Bobby Thomson:
This. Most of the press thinks this is a game. One of the biggest reasons they dislike liberals is precisely because we take politics seriously and think anybody might get hurt. Everyone who calls themselves a ‘true conservative’ believes that defaulting on the debt limit is actually a good thing, and that the government can easily pay all its bills without any significant damage to society or raising taxes. They believe that the only reason this isn’t happening is because we, liberals, are so selfish and shortsighted that we waste money, spending most of the existing tax revenue on frivolous or corrupt programs.
benw
What? Does Carson think the debt ceiling is the size of the national debt, or does he really guarantee to default the first time the limit is reached? My neighbors have a shiny new Carson 2016 bumper sticker. I’ve got to get going with some Bernie yard signs.
Comrade Dread
Well, in theory, it would be possible to negotiate a budget that wouldn’t require borrowing any additional money. That would mean immediate tax increases, gutting the Federal budget, or some combination of the two. Can’t imagine which one Carson would pick.
And then once grandma who voted for him is eating cat food, moving into the kid’s garage, and seeing the Christian Scientists for her health care, no doubt she’ll blame it on immigrants, the homosexuals, or liberals.
Frankensteinbeck
Oh, and Carson is not going to be president. Things are so insane, he’s the only candidate I can count out absolutely. His base are the people who resent being told it’s racist for them to not want their kids going to school with blacks. They will love him and vote for him exactly as long as they think he has no chance of being elected.
ixnay
It may be important to note that doctors and dentists (maybe veterinarians? just mentioning by way of full disclosure, as a DVM – although we mostly don’t have enough money to be at risk) are among the most vulnerable to money-making scams. Not to mention a propensity for killing themselves in small aircraft. That old “I am an expert at X, therefore an expert at all other letters” seems to apply to those who have spent time hearing only “Yes, Doctor. Of course, Doctor.”
gf120581
Josh Marshall’s having a field day with Carson lately. Compared him to a certain Peter Sellers character and I don’t mean Clouseau or Strangelove.
In a field of Godawful GOP candidates, Carson stands out as perhaps the least qualified of them all. Say what you will about Trump and Fiorina, the other two “no experience in governing” candidates, but at least they have executive experience in business (yes, Fiorina was fucking awful at it, but at least she has experience). Carson has no experience in anything remotely resembling the office he’s currently pursuing. Nothing. And yet this is arguably the GOP’s new frontrunner.
Rising Above
Re-brand, re-launch, re-boot!
It starts tonight, baby.
There’s a high-speed freight train barreling down the tracks like a laser beam towards Trump and Carson, and its name is Jeb.
Patrick
In addition to the debt limit issue, it drives me crazy that Republicans are getting away with being the “tough on deficit” party. They are only tough on spending they disagree with. They haven’t met a defense spending bill they didn’t like. They could care less what we were spending in Iraq.
Brachiator
@Gin & Tonic:
Hell, neither do some nation’s leaders. I recall this from a BBC news story. The prime minister and the equivalent of the secretary of the treasury got it wrong.
This is not to excuse Carson at all, but here he is reflective of the ignorance of many folk. It’s almost like the Sarah Palin effect magnified and come back to haunt us.
I think that evangelicals, especially, are drawn to a man who thinks that the tax system should equal biblical tithing, and that the federal government can never have any debt.
Gold standard, anyone?
dmsilev
The polling trends are kind of interesting to look at, and by interesting I mean terrifying.
I played around with Pollster’s custom plot and generated this graph (just show averages, eliminate the bottom half dozen or so). Trump and Carson have both been rising steadily, with a hiccup in Trump’s support around the time of the last debate. Both of them put together run a bit over half of the electorate right now (54%). Jeb* has been slowly losing support for the last several months, despite the promises from our pet troll that he’ll Surge Any Day Now. Rubio and Fiorina had big debate bumps; Fiorina has lost just about all of her support, but Rubio has only lost a bit.
At least right now, all of the support and all of the momentum is Trump & Carson.
Edit: Forgot to add that Huckabee, Kasich, Christie, and Paul have hovered in the two to four percent range for the last few months, and if any of them lose any more support, they’ll be relegated to the Jindal Zone.
Hob
@Comrade Dread: No– you’re confusing the debt ceiling with the budget deficit (which is probably what Carson is doing, too). Even if you pass a balanced budget this year, you’ll almost certainly still need to adjust the debt ceiling to allow payment to be made on things from the previous budget, and interest on Treasury securities.
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
*Contains no Jeb.
dmsilev
@Rising Above: Clearly, as part of the rebranding, Jeb needs a new nickname. Might I suggest Jeb-Jeb Bush?
Stillwater
Ben Cartson doesn’t seem to understand what the debt limit actually is
Exactly. It can’t be said enough, actually.
But as they say about politics, if you’re explaining you’re losing. And that’s especially true when you’re talking TO people who don’t want facts to get in the way of their preferred policies.
dmsilev
@Frankensteinbeck: Polling numbers may have settled during shipping.
Rising Above
@dmsilev:
I remember back in ’99 that everyone laughed when we said George W. Bush would be the next President.
You know Jeb is inevitable and that thought fills you with utter dread…liberals hate him, even more than Trump, even more than Carson, or Palin, or everyone else.
The Bushes drive progressives absolutely batshit like nobody else.
Really?
@Rising Above: Oh man, that’s fucking hilarious! you should try stand-up!
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
*Candidacy simplified to reduce cost.
Ripley
@Rising Above: Are you sure that’s why they were laughing?
GregB
To be really blunt. Any man who lives with such a binary world view as Carson wherein he is on the side of good and anyone opposing him is akin to a Nazi is the kind of man who will end up behaving like a Nazi to those who oppose him.
He has religious fascist written all over him.
dmsilev
@Frankensteinbeck: Jeb? is one of those things which ships with a few missing screws and an extra dowel that doesn’t seem to go anywhere, isn’t he?
Felonius Monk
@Rising Above:
Nope. Sorry. JEB? doesn’t barrel anywhere. Never has, never will. JEB? is just stumblin’ along, singin’ his song, and the big derailment is just around the bend.
Comrade Dread
@Hob: Yes, but I’m not suggesting running a balanced budget. I’m suggesting you a large budget surplus then you would have the money to service existing debt and obligations.
dmsilev
Jindal-mentum!:
Matt McIrvin
@dmsilev: Jen Bish!
sloan
Perhaps someone harvested his brain?
* paging Dr. Fiorina *
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
Jeb Bush may stick to some kinds of skin.
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
I’m not going to deny, he’s the Walmart Quality for a Walmart Price candidate.
Patrick
@Rising Above:
If Mr Bush is so inevitable, why the need for re-branding? Do tell us what went wrong.
kc
@gf120581:
Chance the gardener was just a blank slate with no opinions. Ben Carson has a lot of very bad opinions.
beltane
@Felonius Monk: Sounds like an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine.
Zombie Jen Bish
@sloan: BRAAAAAAAAAINS!
DTTM
For the Daily Kos crowd/ but not all in the Juice crowd, rebel Bernie supports the budget agreement.
Looked over at Kos…silence ……..which is not “reality-based” despite their high-minded assertions of such.
I should not even look at Kos, but sometimes there is good stuff. My choice, I suppose.
Meanwhile, Ryan may be Speaker, but the vote shows the knives are out.
Rising Above
@Patrick:
He’s inevitable because he can afford having a poor start–the money for the re-brand is there for the taking.
Aagain, Jeb is a policy wonk with real chops on economic issues. This is the perfect debate from which to launch his re-boot.
Mike J
@DTTM:
Nothing wrong with reading the front page articles at Kos. Just don’t ever read comments or the rec list.
raven
@Rising Above: He’s as stupid as you are if that is possible.
Patrick
@Rising Above:
Why did such a “great” candidate have a poor start?
dmsilev
I might have to tune in to the debate if this is to be believed:
My prediction: Jeb~ announces that he’s going to blow his entire campaign ad budget buying space on liberal political blogs.
Elizabelle
RE Ben Carson: some comedian needs to do a routine of horrible, egregious comments delivered in Carsonspeak.
SiubhanDuinne
@Rising Above:
Let me know if you’d like to see my poem about Jeb (posted in a comment last night). I think you might like it. It’s quite singable, especially if you have a basic familiarity with American musical theatre.
JPL
@dmsilev: Kasich is going to switch parties. lol
DTTM
@Mike J: Thanks,I know….it’s the sanctimony that gets me and can suck me in to do what the amusing people of Wonkette define as “Hate Reading”…
JustRuss
@Rising Above:
Dear God, that made my day. When the election’s over, can we keep Rising Above? He’s just too precious.
RaflW
If this pronouncement doesn’t mobilize the Chamber of Commerce wing of the GOP to destroy Carson’s candidacy, then the Tea Party has taken full and total control of the Republican party and the money class does not give a shit.
Have they already offshored all their savings? Because we’ll be a global economic basket case if Carson ever wins. Which he won’t. But he’s flogging an absurd idea, and once it’s out there as an acceptable policy stance by a ‘leading GOP candidate’ it’s gonna waft around and stink up more sensible conversations for a loooooong time.
LWA
@Rising Above:
Every campaign should have its own Baghdad Bob.
RaflW
@JustRuss: OK, I’m back to thinking parody troll.
Annoying parody troll, mind you.
ETA: Jen Bish announced endorsement by Dan Quayle! That’s like a whole extra train car of bricks gonna roll over Trump/Carson.
sloan
@dmsilev: Jindal crashes the debate, takes a shit on the floor and performs the world’s first self-exorcism.
Baud
@dmsilev:
Two words: Black face.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Beware the Jebberwock, my son,
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch;
Beware the Jeb-Jeb Bush, and shun
The frumious Barbarsnatch.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: Post it again. You know you want to!
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Rising Above:
… and then he got 500,000 fewer votes than Al Gore. But we already know you’re proud that you cheated your way to “victory” like Lance Armstrong.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
You’re just like my pusher.
dmsilev
@RaflW: Maybe Jeb? will announce a Dick Cheney endorsement, so he can boast the support of both his father’s VP _and_ his brother’s VP.
To show that he’s his own man, of course.
Stillwater
@GregB: Well, he is on record as advocating for more for individuality-affirming, truth-seeking, freedom-embracing Groupthink amongst conservatives.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
Well, I do, but I don’t want to make a pest of myself.
Rising Above
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
-Richard Nixon
Keep whining, loser.
beltane
@sloan: I would pay to watch that.
More likely that Donald Trump will go off on the whole lot of them as he endorses Hillary ans then storms off the stage. Millions of teabagger heads explode all across the country.
Gravenstone
@dmsilev: Well, we can’t say he didn’t warn us.
bemused
Has there been any corroboration that Carson actually tried to stab a kid, beat up people when he was 14 because I wonder if he is lying about that too.
RaflW
The only real chops Jen Bish has are best served with applesauce.
Baud
@Rising Above:
DougJ lied his ass off when be said he wasn’t you.
Roger Moore
@ixnay:
They obviously haven’t heard the old joke:
Q: How do you say “Fuck you!” in Tagalog?
A: Yes Doctor, right away.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Good evening, candidate Baud.
Having heard about the inadequate (but well toileted) facilities for the lesser GOP candidates, how are they not just hiking around near gorgeous Boulder CO? Plenty of fab outdoor activities in the vicinity. Losers.
What are our predictions on flameouts?
If one preferred to watch the event on mute (but plugged into this blog), what musical accompaniment is appropriate?
beltane
Maybe Marco Rubio’s secret “wife” and children will show up to the debate.
JPL
@Baud: No kidding. btw.. Don’t hire this guy to troll for you.
Frankensteinbeck
@DTTM:
If they can’t replace him, those are plastic butter knives, and if they could replace him, it wouldn’t have been this hard to elect him in the first place.
They’ll whine and refuse to vote for anything. Status quo.
@RaflW:
Also bear in mind that the Kochs fund the Tea Party. The richest people most eager to blow incredible amounts of money on politics are the ones who support ‘burn the country down’ candidates. One of many problems the CoC wing is facing.
Gravenstone
@JustRuss: If we do, you have to promise to clean up after him. I’m not sure he’s bright enough to ever be house broken.
dmsilev
@Elizabelle:
Entry of the Gladiators
beltane
I hope Jen Bish is appropriately dressed tonight. He seems to have trouble figuring out how zippers work. It wouldn’t be a shock to learn that he still can’t tie his own shoes.
Hungry Joe
@Rising Above: Maybe THAT’S been Jeb’s problem: Here he is, a laser beam, and he’s trying to “barrel down tracks.” Actually, see, laser beams don’t barrel down tracks, they …
Oh, screw it. Here comes that laser beam, barreling down the tracks.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Rising Above: You do know that Tricky Dick was a crook, contrary to his assertions. Also, “High Speed Freight Train”? I though you Republicans didn’t like Hight Speed Rail.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
All of them, Katie.
Your choice of sad trombone, kazoo, or yakaty sax.
beltane
If there is no campaign ending stunt tonight, I demand my money back.
Davis X. Machina
@DTTM: How was the Sherrod Brown HRC endorsement received?
Tim C.
I am now at the point where I have no idea who takes the nomination. The 2008 and 2012 models just don’t seem to have much predictive value anymore. McCain never had the unfavorables that Jeb! has. Each of the “not-Mitts” faded after very brief rises. We’ve had another four years of right-wing media hyping things that in no way reflect reality. The train is off the tracks and nobody has any real idea what the rabid chicken-humpers will do next.
Elizabelle
@beltane: Yeah, truly. Half of the country (that gives a fig about politics, a small set) is hate-watching. We demand our debacle!
Hungry Joe
@Baud: Okay, I’ve about had it with your fake run for the presidency. Enough.
Clearly, you’re angling for the Veep spot. Why don’t you just admit it?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Rising Above:
Poor Tricky Dick. Eternally unable to take his own advice.
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
Candidate Baud! Candidate Baud! Is it true that all the GOP candidates will be appearing tonight with one arm in a sling, because of injuries incurred when you beat them all in an arm wrestling competition?
What of reports that you have a new campaign strategy, where all votes for other candidates are actually votes for you?
And what is your position on ELECTROLYTES?
Southern Beale
I don’t think Ben Carson understands what the debt ceiling is.
Baud
@Hungry Joe:
I’d be lying if I said that being the untouchable Fourth Branch of government wasn’t tempting.
BillinGlendaleCA
The twitter feed in the crawl on CNBC’s pre-debate show is hilarious.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
No. They broke their own arms so they wouldn’t have to face me.
It’s what the voters woukd have wanted if they knew who I was.
It does not, I repeat, does NOT cause autism.
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
Will you be debasing them on stage tonight as the cowards they are, Candidate Baud? The American public is begging for you to prove your smack talk chops!
dmsilev
@efgoldman: National GOP primary voters.
M31
best stunt would be Joe Biden running them all off the stage with his Trans Am, muttering “I hate Illinois Nazis”
Elizabelle
Ooh. A Debate Open Thread.
With toilets. Lots of toilets.
SFAW
@dmsilev:
Considering the line often used here, I would suggest Jeb-Jeb Brinks.
SFAW
@Racist Above:
What’s amusing is that you get angrier and angrier in every thread where you appear, as you realize that people see you as a fool, a clown, a liar, and a shill – and keep commenting on that.
I keep waiting for you to pule “Stop making FUN of me, you big meanies! Mommy! They’re being mean to me! Waaah!”
Have a nice life, racist. Come back when you reach fourth grade.
Roger Moore
@SiubhanDuinne:
Anyone who doesn’t already know to avoid Barbar’s snatch is beyond help.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
As long as the parting gifts include the Home Board Game Version, I’m happy to attempt the trifecta. Watch this space tomorrow night (assuming one of the debaters [or ‘debaturs,’ qua McLaren {?}] provides decent material).
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
Winning. Definitely winning.
Roger Moore
@SFAW:
FTMFW!
Woodrowfan
JEB is just lulling the others into a false sense of security.
schrodinger's cat
Ben Carson is single-handedly dispelling the notion that brain surgeons are smarter than the average person.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@schrodinger’s cat:
J R in WV
@Southern Beale:
Duh! Ya think? Me too, also. I’m just a retired computer geek, and I know more about government that most of these asses.
mclaren
Ben Carson is a typical American doctor — loud, confident, narcissistic, ignorant, stupid, and wrong.
mclaren
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’ll have you know that all those Republicans onstage were master debaters. Seldom has such a display of public masturdebation been seen in American politics.
mclaren
SCENES FROM TONIGHT’S REPUBLICAN DEBATE AS TOLD BY J. R. R. TOLKIEN
Source: Lord of the Ding-A-Lings: The Two Trump Towers
Source: Lord of the Ding-A-Lings: The Return of the Cringe
Source: Lord of the Ding-A-Lings: The Fellowship of the Ding-A-Lings
Myiq2xu
Notice that John Cole doesn’t explain WHY he thinks Carson is wrong, he just calls him a simpleminded lunatic.
The term for that is “projection”.