On Friday, Donald Trump generated substantial controversy when he asserted that George W. Bush was president at the time of the 9/11 attacks.
“When you talk about George Bush, I mean, say what you want, the World Trade Center came down during his time,” Trump said. “He was president, O.K.?”
Jeb Bush immediately pushed back, calling Trump’s comments “pathetic” and insisting “my brother kept us safe.”
The media jumped on to the burgeoning controversy. According to The New York Times the idea that Bush was president on 9/11 and failed to stop the attack is a “break from the GOP.”
Was George W. Bush president on September 11, 2001? It’s time to settle this once and for all.
It’s true that, in the presidential election held on November 7, 2000, George W. Bush received fewer votes than Al Gore.
But according to the Associated Press, this is a photo of George W. Bush being sworn in as president on January 20, 2001.
Well played.
redshirt
I don’t even care anymore if Trump wins. He’s saying things that have not been said in our political game for years – sometimes the truth! And its making all the right people nervous, so, keep going The Donald. Say it all.
FYI Donald will never win.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
He kept us safe!*
redshirt
It’s truly hilarious (with tears) that only Trump can say these things. If it were a Democrat, or anyone else, they’d be dismissed out of hand, and then attacked.
dmsilev
Still not definitive, though.
redshirt
FYI I saw my first Trump bumper sticker today. Poor design.
Was on an electrician’s van.
Xenos
Back in the late 90s I used to have arguments with right-wingers about who was president and who was in charge of the Justice Department when Ruby Ridge happened and the first raid was made on the Koresh compound in Waco. They had already decided to blame Clinton for both.
BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: Our crack media needs to conduct an investigation of this controversy.
Baud
Teach the controversy.
BillinGlendaleCA
Maybe George Bush was President but the rubble was naturally occurring.
the Conster
@redshirt:
Trump is a disruptor. I’m convinced now that the nomination is his to lose, and the extremely weird part of this is that we and his revanchist base are both rooting for him, but for diametrically opposite reasons. Strange times.
Corner Stone
@redshirt:
I think, more and more, that he really is a silent Democrat and just gut punching Jeb and the other crazies. If one day we find out he’s like a brother to Bill Clinton it would not surprise me one bit.
Corner Stone
@redshirt:
Just like all the Benghazi Cmte BS. It has taken actual Republicans saying it out loud before anyone thought to actually dismiss the witch hunt.
All 188 House D reps could have went on talk shows and been dismissed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I can’t find the guy who tweeted (I’m sure there are a few) the other things Jeb’s brother kept safe:
The US military
New Orleans
the labor force
Your 401-K
Your home equity
A budget surplus
The country’s credibility
@efgoldman: Just amazing that Jeb$ can call the Idiot Princeling a “great president” and nobody on the set of Morning Joe even blinks
gogol's wife
That is a beautiful piece of satire.
the Conster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Also, Osama bin Laden
gogol's wife
@the Conster:
Yes, but not ironically.
dmsilev
Apparently George W. Bush was President from September 12, 2001 through roughly August 2008.
redshirt
@Corner Stone:
Like who’s that congressman from Florida that says a lot of true but “extreme” things? See, I can’t even remember his name. Pretty sure he’s never been on Beat the Press.
schrodinger's cat
MSM is so useless in its job, it has taken someone like Trump to state the obvious truths that have been apparent to anyone paying attention.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Trump is a racist, sexist asshole who shouldn’t be allowed within 20 miles of the White House, but at least he’s willing to point to the middle of the room and say, “Your elephant just took a shit on the coffee table.”
Villago Delenda Est
The fact of the matter is, and this is documented, that the Clinton administration national security team briefed the flock of incoming incompetents that their greatest concern would be terrorism, particularly the bin Laden organization.
They were blown off, because, hey, Clinton!
Jymn
That’s what you call ‘writing.’ Well played’, indeed.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
It wasn’t even his house.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Villago Delenda Est: No, they “thought”, contrary to existing evidence that no non-state actors were a threat. So they planned for Iraq.
ruemara
80’s action flicks are so bad they’re good.
Villago Delenda Est
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Yes, he did.
*for certain values of “safe” that do not include Saudis flying planes into buildings, or New Orleans being flooded, or the economy cratering in the fall of 2008, or thousands of American casualties in a totally illegal war of aggression that was also totally optional, well, unless you’re an executive of Halliburton who needs some hookers and blow.
Jeffro
@redshirt: Only (presidential) campaign sign, sticker, or lawn sign I’ve seen so far is a handmade “TRUMP” sign, nailed pretty high up on a telephone pole in a nice Fairfax, VA neighborhood. It’s gonna be a weird year.
mdblanche
I’m not convinced. If Bush was President on 9/11, then why did he keep reading My Pet Goat that morning? I think it’s obvious the President would have had more important things to do at that moment.
Villago Delenda Est
@BillinGlendaleCA: Hell, they were working on making China the existential threat that would reignite the Cold War mentality that the MIC rode on for 40 fucking years.
Elie
Trump is fooling somebody — question is who? Is he a true Repub insurgent or disruptor? Is he a Democratic tool? Is he a representing an untapped constituency?
No one has really jumped this guy and landed real blows (other than Carly Fiorina, but lightly without much fuss). Bush has tried but really received the worst of it with each try. I don’t think this guy can be attacked with anger — but derision and laughter might pierce his thin skin. Maybe both sides are hesitant to do it because they think he actually harms the other side and don’t want to stop it?
father pussbucket
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Exactly. Buildings have fallen throughout history. We need more evidence.
redshirt
@Jeffro: I’ve seen quite a few Bernie yard signs. The oddest of which is like 5 in 5 consecutive houses – like Bernieville or something.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
Did you just say, “blown” off?
Because if you did, I haz seen it. And if you didn’t, HAHAHAHAHA.
Feudalism Now!
They removed all the W’s from the White house keyboards though. So they had to ignore anything they said.
Baud
@Elie:
No reason for Dems to go after Trump in particular, as far as I can see.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@ruemara:
That’s one of the things that makes “Hot Fuzz” such an awesome movie — the filmmakers know that the 80s action flicks they love are bad movies and they just don’t care.
BillinGlendaleCA
@redshirt: Were they like Burma shave signs?
Ken
@dmsilev: Nah, he checked out long before August 2008.
redshirt
@BillinGlendaleCA: Cool, an oldster reference I don’t get! Please explain it to this spring chicken.
Jeffro
@redshirt: At least they all know they can easily borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors if needed, right?
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: Double entendres are wonderful things, n’est ce pas?
benw
9/11 attack – Clinton’s fault
Anthrax attacks – some weirdo scientist’s fault
Iraq war – hippie protestors and eventually Obama’s fault
Hurricane Katrina – black people’s (esp. Kanye West’s) fault
housing bubble – Democrats’ (forcing banks to give bad loans to minorities) fault
2008 economic crisis – Obama’s fault
Republicans: your party of personal responsibility.
dmsilev
@Feudalism Now!: A high school classmate of mine was a White House intern at the beginning of the Clinton administration, and she told me once that the outgoing Bush people pulled keys off keyboards, left gremlins in the computer network so that “Bush rules; Clinton sucks” would pop up at random intervals, etc.
That’s H.W. Bush, you know, the adult and serious one.
BillinGlendaleCA
@redshirt: Burma-shave roadside signs.
Shana
@Jeffro: In my local grocery, in Oakton, VA (a high income area of Fairfax County for those of you outside the DC area) I saw a Carly bumper sticker today. Extremely weird.
Also, am I the only one who went to the link provided and expected it to be The Onion?
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
How old are you?
Felonius Monk
@mdblanche:
He was waiting for clean underwear to be flown in from the White House.
Jeffro
@benw:
you meant, time-traveling Obama’s fault
currants
@redshirt: I have seen several Trump lawn signs. In Massachusetts. I’d like to think they’re tongue-in-cheek, but … Scott Brown.
the Conster
A Bernie v. Trump election would be fun to watch happen in a parallel universe because it would be a campaign of true believing insurgents on both sides, but, in this reality – DO.NOT.WANT.
the Conster
@currants:
Trump was just in Tyngsborough campaigning – the town has gone Republican in every presidential election.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Heh, ageless. My parents told me about those signs, dad was born in 1919 and mom in 1926.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est: Latin in your nym and French in your answers? First against the wall, amigo.
…oh, shit.
Brachiator
@redshirt:
I feel so conflicted. Trump is such a jerk and obviously should not be elected to any office of trust in the United States.
But damn, I love how he keeps putting a foot to the GOP’s collective ass.
ETA: good point that Trump apparently cannot be swift boated.
Elie
@Baud:
I don’t disagree — just don’t know where the Trump impact will be the most destructive. I don’t think anyone else knows either.
Felonius Monk
@BillinGlendaleCA: Burma Shave Boogie
redshirt
@Brachiator: He won’t be elected, so enjoy it. That’s what I’m doing.
And if he gets elected? We deserve it.
Baud
@the Conster:
The Village would go on such a bender if that happened.
Villago Delenda Est
@dmsilev: So, it seems, the story of the missing W keys was pure projection on the part of the incoming minions of the deserting coward.
I’m shocked, shocked! to learn this.
redshirt
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I prefer the “His Master’s Voice” early radio ad campaign. ;)
redshirt
@the Conster:
I would LOVE to watch this election on some supercomputer simulation.
Penus
@father pussbucket: I saw a building standing up the other day, all on its own. Tell me again about how terrorists are taking down our buildings.
Felonius Monk
@redshirt: Burma Shave Signs
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
Burma Shave used to advertise with series of signs that would make a rhyming couplet, followed by one last sign that said “Burma Shave”. An example:
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: With any luck at all, there would be heavy fatalities from alcohol poisoning.
rikyrah
I find this hilarious. Trump just slaps Jeb coming and going.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
One of my early experiences with Fox’s lies was when they reported that those claims were verified by the GAO or inspector general or someone — and they even had pictures!
Of course, Fox didn’t actually show those pictures, which was a pretty big tell that they were lying out their ass about the whole thing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wonder how many Villagers would get that?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Elie:
I think it’s because (a) Republicans aren’t funny, so they can’t deploy humor effectively and (b) they’re afraid that if the country starts laughing at the ridiculousness of Republicans, they’ll never stop. And as Stephen Colbert proved at the White House Correspondents Dinner, there is nothing these guys and their enablers hate more than being laughed at.
ETA I hate autocorrect.
Xenos
@Baud: Burma-Shave jokes were often used in late-60s era Mad Magazine segments. I asked my silent generation parents, and they explained it to me.
So even some of us who are not so old (not 50 yet!) know the “Burma Shave” punchline.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: None of them Katie.
currants
@the Conster: These were in Needham and Plum Island. Also in the latter locale a bumper sticker on a MA licensed car, “NOT A LIBERAL.” Made me want to get a “Even More Liberal Than You Imagine” bumper sticker. Only in fewer words.
different-church-lady
Well, time to suspend Tom Brady again.
Another Holocene Human
Judd Legum is a good egg.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: No.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Maybe this was a Halloween decoration.
Ken
He kept us safe
On nine-one-one
Except for
Three thousand
Dead and gone
Burma Shave
(Too soon?)
BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady:
Is it a day ending in ‘y’?
JPL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe Kasich will defend Bush.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Oh God. How many kids are going to dress up as Trump this year?
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
Not at all. Once it became obvious that Obama would win, Wall Street panicked, causing the financial crisis.
redshirt
I got fooled by one of those “CO-EXIST” bumper stickers the other day, because I could make out the “Don’t Tread on Me” sticker from afar, so immediately judged them, but it looked like they had a co-exist sticker right next to it, which intrigued me. But when I got close enough, it said “CAPITALISM” and the driver was all in camo, texting, and the world made sense.
p.a.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Maybe Israel was involved. They are leaders in producing (Palestinian) rubble. (h/t The Onion.
the Conster
@Elie:
Yeah, everyone’s watching Trump with a mixture of horror and amusement, because he himself has no idea where he’s going with all this. He’s gotten this far to his own amazement, and there’s no incentive for him to change anything no matter what happens, which he couldn’t do even if he knew how or what to change. He’s going to take the other candidates on one by one and it’s hard not to root for him, and injuries.
ThresherK (GPad)
Does your Donald misbehave
Grunt and grumble
Rant and rave?
Shoot the brute some
Burma-Shave
(Strictly from memory. Scary.)
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): For an example, see Richard “That’s not funny!” Cohen.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@dmsilev:
I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain amount of pranking between administrations was traditional. But, of course, the thin-skinned Bushies had to blow it out of proportion because they were NOT TO BE MOCKED, DAMN IT!
catclub
@Roger Moore: You can do
a mile a minute
but there ain’t
no future in it.
Burma Shave
benw
@Roger Moore:
Yes, this is the logic. But, let’s speculate and say Obama does have a time machine. Why doesn’t he go back in time and kill Hitler? The Holocaust is also time-traveling Obama’s fault!
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman: Howie Carr is the original Duck Dynasty fake sauce. He’s a WASP of means and breeding. There’s a photo of him and his family that is quite similar in tone to the photos of the Duck fucker clan before the teevee show. Of course they are Southern nobility so it’s pose prepped up on a beach whereas stick up your anus Yankee WASPs go for the indoor, stuffy posed Sears style photo op. His name is Howard Louis Carr, Junior.
the Conster
@currants:
I live in Needham now – in early September I was behind a car with a Perry 2016 bumper sticker. Our representative is Joe Kennedy III, so we have our wingnut crackpots with more money than brains. But Perry? Really???
Villago Delenda Est
@benw: Look, he went back in time and told Judas that if he just passed on one small bit of information about Jesus, he could make 30 quick pieces of silver.
Starfish
@dmsilev and Feudalism Now!: The deal about the “W” keys was at least mostly make believe.
Ken
@Baud:
Sexy Donald Trump.
(I just made that up, and have no intention of googling it to find out if it exists, because (1) it does, by Rule 34, and (2) I’ll have to dig out my optic lobe with a spoon so that I’ll never be able to see the pictures again even in memory.)
sukabi
@Baud: don’t think Trump is the worst choice of the bunch they could pick for dressup…they could go for a cross dressing Huckabee.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Xenos:
They have Burma Shave-style signs in “Cars” and at Cars Land at Disney’s California Adventure, so the joke lives on for new generations.
different-church-lady
@benw: Decisions, decisions… do I go with the “Percival Dunwoody, Idiot Time Traveler from 1909” link or the Louis CK time machine link…
Another Holocene Human
@Ken: burn!
p.a.
@Villago Delenda Est: because 1) Clinton
2) Condi Darth Cheney etc couldn’t conceive of independent actors without the help of nation-states. (Maybe a bit of racism in this; the furriners couldn’t do things on their own).
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: You know the French. The problem with them is that they have no word for entrepreneur.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Villago Delenda Est: Jesus, that column ought been EvenTheLiberalRichCohen’s epitaph. I haven’t read it in years, and it’s as bad as I remember.
“First of all, I’m a funny guy”. If you’re funny , people will say that about you. You won’t need to say it.
Joel
@ruemara: Just an FYI.
benw
@Villago Delenda Est: Nice. Then he went forward in time and found a horrific subterranian race feeding on a peaceful race of surface dwellers and said “yup, all good here!”
Schlemazel
@Ken:
Sexy Trump . . . urp . . . ah . . . urp
would that include an orange fright wig murkin?
excuse me I have go go throw up some more
Another Holocene Human
@the Conster: Not a lot of real local hate and resentment mongers on the airwaves so they go for the national stuff, especially national cable station Fox News. So of course they’re fellating a Tex-ass politician though they are still nominally living in Massachusetts. What’s the world coming to? &so on &so forth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ThresherK (GPad): when he admitted after the Iraq War was became a quagmire that he supported the war not because Colin Powell had persuaded everyone but fools and Frenchmen (see, funny!), or because Tony Blair had made the “humanitarian case” so well (his prewar reasons) but because he needed some “therapeutic violence” after having watched 9/11 on TeeVee, that should have been the end of his career. But he was speaking for a lot of people, especially people who write columns for the Washington Post and the NYT.
Another Holocene Human
@p.a.: Condi was a U.S.S.R. expert.
Let me repeat that. Condi was a U.S.S.R. expert. Full stop.
benw
@different-church-lady: Both please!
scav
Don’t stick your elbow
out so far
it might go home
In another car
Burma Shave
Another Holocene Human
I really wanted the Gators to beat LSU because everyone said LSU was favored, but it’s not looking good for the Gators right now, y’all.
I would have ignored the game but my neighbors scream every time there’s a big play.
Brachiator
@Baud:
They’ll be the ones with the yooooge trick-or-treat bags. Room for lots of candy.
Smiling Mortician
@gogol’s wife: It’s not satire. It’s a rational (and witty, yes) response to Poe’s Law. The looped-once-around-the-sun satire from Trump v. Bush came to them pre-packaged.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: Yoooooge and very classy.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): And Hot Fuzz is so damned good.
p.a.
When your aim’s
To impress
Don’t look
Like a mess
BurmaShave
Roger Moore
@Ken:
It does. It isn’t as bad as you’d think. It’s just a Trump hat and a “suit” with short shorts instead of pants.
different-church-lady
@benw: coming right up:
http://boingboing.net/2013/07/10/tom-the-dancing-bug-super-fun-9.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmCjhEa20lE
Villago Delenda Est
@ThresherK (GPad): Kinda like having to assert you’re the King. If you have to do that, you’re in a world of hurt as a King.
gogol's wife
@ruemara:
I want to watch Hot Fuzz right now.
hag — fascist
Smiling Mortician
@redshirt: Vivid. And terrifying. And normal.
p.a.
If your cooter
Could be cuter
Give it a shave
For your suiter
BurmaShave
redshirt
@Smiling Mortician: I have no idea what you’re referring to. Burma Shave?
Smiling Mortician
@redshirt: No. To your story about the texting guy in camo with the contradictory bumper stickers. The comment I linked to.
p.a.
@efgoldman: maybe Burma Shave advertised in Screw magazine?
seaboogie
@Villago Delenda Est: Remember them accusing the outgoing Clinton staffers of taking all the Ws off the computer keyboards?
catclub
@efgoldman: Bobbing their hair, dancing the charleston, those modern girls.
ETA: also, suitor.
ThresherK (GPad)
@p.a.: It’s suitor, Robbie Burns.
But now I so wanna see it Photoshopped.
Hey, how many kids going as Trump will say about their mom what he said about his daughter?
benw
@different-church-lady: Thanks! I won’t even judge you for being “different”.
redshirt
@Smiling Mortician: Without quotes, there’s no way to tell.
Hopefully this is one of the many issues resolved with the immanent upgrade.
Yeah, that guy was a piece, but is it even surprising anymore? The bumper stickers didn’t contradict, they just were made to appear that way.
Chris
@Brachiator:
I really don’t see a downside. If he’s not the nominee, he’s not the nominee and we don’t need to worry about him. If he is the nominee, well, it’s not like we didn’t know any post-Reagan Republican candidate wasn’t going to be a complete lunatic and psychopath anyway. Trump’ll be no worse than any of the rest of them.
In the meanwhile, he’s waging a scorched earth campaign against the Republican Party establishment, and that’s a service to mankind.
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman: That’s too bad. Big flurry of activity a few minutes ago as people drove home from their football watching parties. Also all but a bicycle traffic jam … it’s Gainesville.
Another Holocene Human
Annnnnd there goes the fuzz.
And another.
C’mon, people.
redshirt
@Chris:
Scarily, Trump is easily the best of them. Mind you, I want nothing to do with any Republican, but he’s the only one who’s not a blind, dogmatic ideologue. As such, if somehow he were elected, I could easily seeing him buck some Republican trends (but not others).
seaboogie
@seaboogie: guess I should read thru all the comments first – but we do seem to be of like mind in responses…
Thoughtful Today
Headline:
Trump Makes Factual Statement, Confuses Conservatives and Liberals.
…
What was telling was watching the Bloomberg ‘journalist’ contradict Trump’s factual statement.
Anyone else notice Bloomberg.com taking a weird hard right turn after Michael Bloomberg took back the reigns of his media empire?
Corner Stone
@p.a.: You are an Angel, holding forth amongst lesser beings.
Thank you.
p.a.
I really hate those *er* *or* nouns.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Holocene Human: Burma-shave.
Another Holocene Human
@redshirt: But he’s also unpredictable, and if his shit stinks, the GOP voters who brought us to this pass can call him a RINO and put off the day of reckoning with their consciences even longer.
The man is a yoooooge narcissist and intensely self interested and I do not trust him for a minute. If he says something true, it is only because he finds it useful. This is no earnest Arnold. This guy is a smiling crook.
You know who my pick is? Marco Rubio, not because he’s not a liar, a crook, a con, a coward, a do-nothing check-casher, and a conservative darling. He is all those things. But he is a fucking babe in the woods as a politician, a hothouse flower who would flop around ineffectively. If God smites us with a GOPer POTUS and GOP Congress we could only pray that Minerva would so favor us with such a foolish foe who would quickly mire himself into an untenable position vis a vis his own party, thus, constraining his potential for damage.
Thoughtful Today
As the token Bernie supporter in Clinton-land here, I have to note:
… be an easy win for Bernie.
Another Holocene Human
@p.a.: who cares, they’re Indo-European cognates and despite the archaic spelling conventions in our dialect of English the vowel in question is pronounced exactly the same.
p.a.
Link to BS jingle archive
BillinGlendaleCA
@Thoughtful Today:
Now you’re going to insult the other Sanders supporters on this blog(yes, you’re not the only one); smooth move.
Another Holocene Human
@Thoughtful Today: Based on what? Elections are won on turnout, so what specifically do you think makes it “easy”?
I volunteered for Obama in 2012. To me, that felt like a lot of hard work. YMMV.
Another Holocene Human
@BillinGlendaleCA: nothin’ but class, that one (I finally read the T_T flameout thread earlier to day)
magurakurin
@Thoughtful Today:
After yesterday I’m pretty sure you are a paid shit stirrer.
FIDO
p.a.
@Another Holocene Human: I do like to comply with (grammatical) conventions.
redshirt
@Another Holocene Human:
I disagree entirely.
While first stating all Republicans suck and none of them should ever hold any office….
Rubio’s “hot house flower” status would just make him putty in the hands of those behind the scenes. And we know who they are and what they want, and that’s exactly what Rubio would become.
Whereas Trump seems to define himself, and that includes defining himself against other billionaires and power brokers. So I think we’re seeing mostly the real Trump now. I suspect he’s far more liberal than he’ll acknowledge for obvious reasons. He’s not a True Believer at least and that’s enough to make him the least worst of this truly terrible bunch.
redshirt
@magurakurin:
It’s RtR’s negative universe double.
What does FIDO mean?
ruemara
@Thoughtful Today: Oh Please. This isn’t Clinton land because we have questions of Bernie. This is hardly even Clinton friendly. God, do you people comprehend how ridiculous you sound with this absolutist bullcrap? Can we get the months of the primary to make decisions and learn about the candidates or should we swear fealty and offer our lives to the godking divine so he can save our souls right now?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
If any Samuel Fuller fans are awake, “The Baron of Arizona” is starting on TCM, starring Vincent Price.
TG Chicago
@BillinGlendaleCA: In a way, they were right. 9/11 was awful, but most of the negative things that came out of it were self-inflicted. More Americans have died in the subsequent invasions than died in the attacks. More money was spent in those invasions than in the cleanup of the attacks. And America’s esteem in the global community actually went up after 9/11 before going way down after making a mess of Iraq.
That’s why it’s silly for wingers to try to pin the attacks on Clinton (well, one of the reasons). Even if the attack actually had been due to Clinton’s negligence, you can’t pin the failure of Iraq on anybody but Bush. And that is a bigger failure than any single terrorist attack ever could be.
Belafon
@Thoughtful Today: You might need to talk to Kay about your “token Bernie supporter” status.
catclub
I think I am on the side of the Latino Activists who oppose NBC letting Trump host SNL – after they (NBC) claimed to have cut all ties this past June over his remarks about Mexican immigrants.
redshirt
@TG Chicago: Indeed. Iraq 2 was the kind of epically bad decision history classes will look upon hundreds of years from now and go yep, that’s when it ended and everything started rolling back.
See, Carrhae.
Elie
@ruemara:
Don’t waste your energy, Rue… really. This is not someone to have a conversation with… just move along and save yourself some time…
redshirt
@catclub: Trump is hosting SNL?
BillinGlendaleCA
@TG Chicago: If you talk to a Republican, they’ll tell you Iraq would have been fine if Obummer hadn’t taken our the troops. Of course, they forget that Bush negotiated the SOFA, and seem to think that we can keep troops there forever. You know it’s just like Korea or Germany.
raven
Weird 9-6 win over Mizzou. Better than a 9-6 loss.
Anoniminous
@sukabi:
Thanks for nothing for THAT image!
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Watching UW play the Fighting Fashion Nightmares.
srv
It’s getting real:
Thoughtful Today
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Now, now, Bill, I get that you want to start a fight, but even for you that’s especially trollish.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Thoughtful Today: Just the facts. Just like last night.
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today: Congrats on making everyone hate Bernie. You’re doing a smash up job proselytizing.
different-church-lady
@BillinGlendaleCA: And tomorrow night. And all next week. And…
different-church-lady
@redshirt: If Bernie ever comes out against his supporters, he’s got my vote.
Thoughtful Today
@ruemara:
“do you people” is a phrase I try to avoid as it usually means I’m making assumptions about groups that are unwarranted.
^ … I should add, that’s essentially what I was just accused of.
… and yet just look at the haters here who feel a need to come after me anytime I say anything positive about Bernie.
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today:
Gosh, it’s such a rarity!
Thoughtful Today
@Belafon:
Hooray! … 2 of us?
Nonetheless, I find I’ve skimmed threads I wasn’t even a part of and found myself mentioned as the ‘Bernie'[insert-belittling-term].
Thoughtful Today
@Elie:
Please. (As in, I agree, please ignore me.)
sukabi
@Anoniminous: you’re welcome.
MomSense
Fuck George Dubya Bush and Howie Carr, too!
Had a great day making cider the old fashioned way. Cider making is quite the workout. Met some rescue donkeys, Korra learned about electric fences for the first time when she wanted at the sheep inside the fence, and finally had a conversation with a man I’ve been waving and smiling at for five years when he walks through the the neighborhood.
He stopped me today while I was driving to tell me he is moving and that he is going to miss his walks. He likes walking by my house because he always hears laughter coming from inside. Best. Compliment. Ever.
Oh and kid met and talked with Paul Sherwen today. He said he was funny and very gracious.
Carry on, juicers. I need some Advil and a heating pad.
FlyingToaster
@Thoughtful Today: So, I see we’ve picked up a moonbat troll. Lovely.
Speaking of trolls, I saw a ¿Jeb? tv ad on NECN this morning, from his Right to Rise PAC. Which I find funny since the only people in Massachusetts watching NECN at 7:28 am on a Saturday are people getting their kids up to go to Saturday courses, and people at work where it’s on.
The old Republicans in Tyngsboro and Boxboro and New Seabury were already at the Regatta, or at breakfast at a hotel overlooking the river. So the ad must have been aimed at NH, or they’re just wasting their money. Heh.
magurakurin
@redshirt:
I learned it from Raven. Fuck it, drive on.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today: Myself, I find it refreshing how Bern-feelers are utterly free of the persecution complex that bedevils so many other candidate’s supporters.
raven
@redshirt: Roger that!
Thoughtful Today
@redshirt:
Do the Clinton supporters attacking Bernie reflect on Clinton as well?
Do the Clinton supporters attacking Bernie supporters reflect on Clinton as well?
For example, while I didn’t join the earlier thread today where Elie repeatedly smeared Bernie, I certainly skimmed through her comments. It was just one smear after another. She even attacked him for being Jewish. Just, wow.
gwangung
@Thoughtful Today:
Y’all should know you make yourself an irresistible target. Can’t resist popping all that self-important hot air.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today:
Yes.
Now will you shut up already?
magurakurin
@redshirt:
It’s like the Star Trek episode, “The Alternative Factor,” except in this both are insane.
Ruckus
@FlyingToaster:
Conservatives wasting their money, by trying to spin back time, where have I heard that before?
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today: No one’s attacking Bernie. They’re mocking you.
Thoughtful Today
What’s particularly ‘cognitive dissonance’ worthy is the Bernie-haters who will publicly sneer at Bernie, talk trash about his supporters, and then claim Bernie supporters won’t support any other candidate.
Based on… ?
I sincerely believe that it won’t be because of all the trollish hate they’ve had to put up with. Hopefully I’m not wrong.
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today: TT, what state will you be leading your local Bernieites to victory in? I hope it’s electorally important.
Redshift
@Elie:
I think Obama gave a pretty convincing demonstration of that.
James E Powell
I’m still wondering what happened to Rising Republican Star™ Carly Fiorina and her unstoppable charge to the front ranks of the race for the Republican nomination.
I mean, she called Hillary Clinton a liar and talked back to Donald Trump, what other qualifications does she need?
Ruckus
@magurakurin:
I sometimes wonder if TT and right to retch are the same troll, getting paid by two different, conflicting sources. They both showed up about the same time, they are both obstinately pointed about their subjects, haven’t noticed them answering or even discussing each others comments and they are both obvious trolls.
James E Powell
@redshirt:
Rubio’s “hot house flower” status would just make him putty in the hands of those behind the scenes. And we know who they are and what they want, and that’s exactly what Rubio would become.
Would become? What is he now?
Thoughtful Today
I don’t mind the haters and the trolls making personal attacks.
What does puzzle me is the apparent obliviousness of those haters, trolls, and their supporters.
Extra amusing: “haters, trolls, and their supporters” is how I see Trump supporters.
srv
Berniebros just have one problem: Sanders’ beloved Denmark is a fantastic country – but only because they’d never elect a guy like him to run the place.
scav
I’m beginning to wonder if TT is actually a supporter of Sander’s positions or person, but suspect it’s rather more an instumental fashion accessory, a trinket useful for demonstating one’s rare superiority to the common herd. TT’s certainly not attempting to persuade, to put the good of the candidate above her/his own instrumental use of the allegience as a weapon and brand-management gee-gaw. It’s all beginning to read like canned schtick.
redshirt
@James E Powell:
No one particularly cares to mold that clay into any particular shape, at this time. But jimminey cricket! If he were to get the nomination…
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today: Do you ever answer direct questions? What state will you vote for Bernie in, and how will that influence the national vote overall?
Jordan Rules
@Redshift:
Hell, some even posit that the WHCD smackdown is the reason the reality TV weirdo is running.
ODS is changing the game!
Right to Rise
Another “misunderestimation” of a Bush. Keep it up, morons.
Just remember what happened to you in 2000 and 2004.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Thoughtful Today:
You’d have to be awfully hypocritical to get offended by personal attacks since you spend most of your time personally attacking other commenters.
Thoughtful Today
@redshirt:
You mean ASL questions, no.
And from what I’ve learned, answering ‘direct questions’ is exactly why I’ve got a hoard of trolls who mention me when I’m not even in the thread.-)
I’ll assume that won’t include you. …
different-church-lady
Alright, which one of you idiots said Beetlejuice three times?
FlyingToaster
@efgoldman: I’ve seen them on broadcast, but usually evening 5:30-8. I expect that.
What I don’t expect is that if they’re really trying to reach the olds, they aren’t blanketing MeTV, Cozi, GetTV, Escape, and Decades (all the broadcast secondary channels) which carry the oldster programming.
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today:
So, again, no answer.
What state will you be voting in? Going door to door for Bernie?
redshirt
@Right to Rise:
Hi RtR. Hope you’re OK. We’ve all been a bit worried about you the last few days, given your absence and, well, the news.
Jordan Rules
This is amazing! The timing is just incredible. Thoughtful right to rise today!
The one true supporter.
srv
Her name is ‘Sparkle.’ She operates a drone. She is sick of whiny boys. And she is perfectly OK with dealing out death.
Who will Bernie Bomb?
redshirt
I guess I’ll just say it: I don’t think Thoughtful Today is a USA citizen.
SFAW
@FlyingToaster:
Which regatta? The TRR?
Right to Rise
@redshirt:
We’re rollin’, baby.
Rollin’.
The campaign cash may be slower in coming, but the Super PAC? It’s like this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: CHristie has enough money for commercials? I’m surprised
Brachiator
@Right to Rise:
Ah. The turd also rises.
Thoughtful Today
@efgoldman:
I’ve been reading her go after Bernie and his supporters for a couple of weeks. She’s been nasty. And not even a ‘Huckabee pretend to be polite kind of nasty’ but just nasty.
I get that I might not reflect well on my preferred candidate. But a lot of my failure is in trying to appropriately respond to nasty haters like her.
And seriously, if I am supposed to be a reflection of my candidate, do me the courtesy and hold those who are clearly supporters of a specific candidate to the same standard, that includes yourself, efgoldman.
redshirt
@Right to Rise:
I wasn’t asking about Jebs? campaign, but rather you. You doing OK? You were gone for awhile and no joke, people were concerned.
Right to Rise
@redshirt:
Out getting that money.
*bling bling*
Mnemosyne (tablet)
I’ve been advised to tune into the cold opening of SNL tonight to see who the surprise guest playing Bernie Sanders is. No spoilers, please — there’s two hours to go here on the West Coast.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
Well, that, plus lying about history, yet again. Bush underestimated in 2000? Not by the Dems. Oh, they thought he was a half-wit joke — which he was — but nobody thought it would be a Dem cakewalk. Same with 2004.
Of course, given that Bush lost the 2000 popular and electoral vote, before SCOTUS cancelled the election, and lost the 2004 electoral, thanks to Republican voting fraud, it doesn’t seem like W did quite as well as Reich to Rise is pretending.
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
mclaren
@efgoldman:
On Balloon-Juice that means, “You’ve spoken truths we don’t want to hear. NEENER NEENER NEENER, I can’t HEAR YOU!!!”
mclaren
@Right to Rise:
Straight down the slippery slope.
Say hello to the denizens of the sewage system when you get there.
different-church-lady
@mclaren: The idea that anyone on BJ gets taken seriously utterly confounds me.
mclaren
@srv:
That gave you such a hardon, didn’t it?
Right to Rise
@mclaren:
Mclaren, you above anybody knows deep down that a third Bush president is a fait accompli.
Thoughtful Today
@different-church-lady:
Usually I’m responding to something said about my preferred candidate. If there wasn’t anyone trash talking my preferred candidate I doubt I would have stuck around. But there’s a lot of trash talking of not just Bernie but of Bernie supporters in this blog. < That's why I finally started commenting.
John could always change this blog to just food, dogs, and gardens without open threads and the entire tenor of the conversations would change. But for as far back as I can recall this has always been a political blog. And a hyper-contentious one from the start from what I recall.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
I read Tyngsborough, had a “senior moment,” thought FlyingToaster was talking about the Merrimack, not the Chuck.
I’m doubly – or even triply — embarrassed, because I’m going in to watch some of the Head tomorrow. So I guess I’m having an up-close-and-personal encounter with senility. Fuck. Thanks for bringing me back to the land of the sentient.
different-church-lady
@SFAW:
There’s only one person on earth who could back up that level of trash talking, and Larry Bird ain’t waking through that door.
mclaren
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
LOL!
Pot, meet kettle. Personal smears and dishonest lying verbal venom aimed at individuals, as opposed to their arguments and citations of facts, have become so clearly identified on thes forum with Mnemosyne that a grotesque lie is now known as a “mnemosyne.”
As in:
“Did the perp tell the truth?”
“Nah, he mnsemosyne’d ten ways from sunday.”
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Thoughtful Today:
Wait, you’re trying to claim that Elie was nasty to you? What’s next, getting all butthurt because Werebear or TaMara spoke harshly to you?
You seriously have the thinnest skin ever if you think that Amir and Elie are the meanest commenters here. You should at least say it was a known asshole like me who was mean to you if you want to make your claims plausible.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today: Here’s a serious question: do you have a humorous bone in your body?
Villago Delenda Est
@Thoughtful Today: You’re not being hated.
You’re being mocked.
Please learn to tell the difference. It’s not Bernie hate…no one hates Bernie here, I for one am happy he’s in the race and he’s setting an agenda that Hillary feels compelled to respond to, and mostly by agreeing with it. Whoever is the nominee is going to be better because Bernie was in the race.
Matt McIrvin
@Xenos: I’m pretty sure there were still a few actual Burma-Shave signs by the highway in some rural areas (in Virginia maybe?) as late as the 1980s.
Thoughtful Today
@mclaren: lol
:)
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@mclaren:
I’m nice to the nice people here, and I’m an asshole to assholes. If you can’t handle it, try being less of an asshole.
Right to Rise
@different-church-lady:
He kicked the ass of the Democrats in elections.
And now that Citizens United has happened…well….that makes his brother even more powerful.
bling bling
Thoughtful Today
@different-church-lady: heh
Ironically, so far I take you seriously.
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: We know what color the sky is in your world. It’s plaid.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today: Fatal mistake, my friend.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Wow, clueless, racist, insane, AND a liar. You’re like a mini-Bush, and hitting the trifecta.
And, true to Rethug form, looks like RCP is cooking the books on their polls. Only way the Rethugs know how to operate.
Gin & Tonic
T_T and RtR in one thread at the same time. Happy, happy, joy, joy!
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
I was quoting a hip-hop song. How is that racist? Do you even know what that word means?
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
Ricky? :That you, man?
Thoughtful Today
@mclaren:
Now I’m trying to think how I can mnsemosyne my way out of some yard work tomorrow…
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Fuck off, racist. The old “Hey, I’m just ‘quoting’ someone else” dodge is what you motherfuckers always pull, when you’re too cowardly to own your own shit.
So, to be clear: you’re a racist. Now, fuck off.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Right to Rise: Brinks Trucks had a breakdown on the road?
trollhattan
@MomSense:
Cycling Paul Sherwin? He and Phil Liggett are cycling, their delivery is mesmerizing.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s kind of fascinating how R2R showed up right when people were starting to wonder if he and TT were working together, innit?
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today: It’s simple: just stay here and harangue us all day.
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: We’ve heard this before…and it means NOTHING. UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH! did not result in a President Mittbot. ¡Heb! is falling in the polls, is looking to economize due to cash shortfalls, is desperately clinging to his war criminal deserting coward brother as they both go under to Davy Jones’ locker. Trump is fucking owning ¡Heb!’s worthless ass with remarkable ease. For the love of Reagan, the certifiable Ben Carson is pwning ¡Heb!’s butt without even trying!
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Why the scare quotes around quoting?
I copy and pasted it from a hip-hop song from the 1990s.
BTW, please define the term racist and show me how it applies to what I quoted. That would be much appreciated, especially if you can do it without screaming four letter words.
Reasoned arguments tend to go farther than cursing.
redshirt
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Indeed. Also that Thoughtful Today cannot answer the question “in what state do you vote?”
I suggest as a form of troll-be-gone we all ask TT what state they’re voting for Bernie in, as grammatically painful as that may be.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Your racism is self-evident, no matter how many times you pull the “quoting” bullshit.
Now, fuck off, racist.
Thoughtful Today
@different-church-lady:
I thought Trump was hilarious … for about ten days.
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: “nigga”
All we need to see.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise: @Right to Rise:
Drunk commenting can be entertaining in the right hands. As for you, put your hands in your [back] pockets and go for a stroll on the nearest arterial. Wear black (your favorite color amirite?)
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@redshirt:
TT has 50 to choose from. You’d think s/he could manage to name at least one.
seaboogie
I feel kind of pervy watching this troll on troll comment action here – it’s kind of depressing. One of those things that you thought might be fascinating in your imagination, but when you consider who all is involved and see it play out, you just feel kind of icky and want to take a shower of any temperature.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Reasoned arguments only work with someone who is not a liar; you have proved, time and time again, that you are a liar.
Now, fuck off, racist.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Heh. Hey, did you see an old friend dropped by a dying thread the other day, to refute the Dutch MH-17 report?
srv
@mclaren: That would be problematic for the conspiragorks here who think you are me.
Felixmoronia
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Reminds one of the “Annie Angel/Shoelimpy” tag tean at Sadly,No some years ago.
SFAW
@Gin & Tonic:
Whoever would that be, one wonders.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Oh god, did not (so sad for me). Did his laptop spring back to life for One Final Post?
So, what are they cooking up to accuse the CIA of next?
Right to Rise
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s nigga with an “A” on the end. According the authority of Racel Jeantel, that makes it OK. It’s not racial. I could even be talking about some “Chinese dude”.
Thoughtful Today
@efgoldman:
Keep guessing :)
But I’ll give you some hints, based on the type of your guessing, I’m considerably older than you and assuredly have been voting since before you were born.
redshirt
@seaboogie:
It is some pretty hot troll on troll action. In fact I think it might be a troll menage a trios.
different-church-lady
@redshirt:
I would think, “Hey, pull my finger!” might be both easier and more efficient.
mclaren
@Thoughtful Today:
Most likely based on the truly awful behavior of the Hillary supporters during the primary campaign back in 2008. Hillbots did not cover themselves with glory in that one.
This time around, however, essentially all Sanders supporters have made it clear that while we would prefer Sanders as the Democratic presidential nominee, we will definitely vote for (and strongly support) Hillary.
I’m as strong a Sanders supporter as there is on this forum, and I have to tell you, there’s just not that much difference in terms of policy twixt Sanders and Hillary. Yes, yes, Hillary’s answer to that “break up the too big to fail banks” was atrocious, but if you listen closely, she herself admitted that those banks would have to be broken up — she just wanted to avoid it except as a last resort. Hillary is close to Sanders on gun control, and reasonably close on boosting the economy. The biggest difference twixt Sanders and Hillary is surely her neocon fanaticism about an “assertive American foreign policy,” meaning burning lots of brown babies.
I don’t think Bernie Sanders is strongly in favor of burning brown babies. Hillary seems to enjoy the idea. This has not endeared her to those of us who don’t enjoy torture porn films.
Source: The Military-Industrial Candidate,” 20 November 2014.
I think we all understand and empathize to a certain extent with the sheer amount of bloodlust required from policymaker inside the Beltway in order to be taken seriously nowadays. America’s natural love of torture and mass murder (as evidenced in our treatment of the native American Indian population) ramped up after 9/11 to the point where, to be considered serious players in foreign policy, Washington DC insiders had to publicly gloat about the prospect of napalming young women and children in wedding parties.
Source: “Merciless,” Charles Stross blog, August 2008.
It’s sad to see Hillary Clinton giving herself over to this kind of subhuman Baal-like worship of torture and death. It’s an Aztec mentality that will not end well for America. Fortunately, Sanders supporters seem to be made of more humane stuff, so we will support Hillary despite her wanton expression of foreign policy cruelty, and despite her groveling before the monstrous forces of greed which have wrecked the lives of so many of our fellow citizens. Because, c’mon! Look at the alternatives. Ben Carson gloats about firing drone missiles at caves where Mexican illegals cower. Huckabee has proposed selling poor people into slavery.
Hillary’s sins of lack of empathy are venial by comparison.
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Four-letter word. Insult.
Look above. Is Rachel the friend of St. Skittles wrong? Is nigga, in fact, a racial slur?
Can it, or can it not, refer to a “Chinese dude”?
After all, it is pronounced with an “A” on the end…
seaboogie
@Right to Rise: Intentional Asshole, with the intention to be really assholish, mistaking it for cleverness. Not the same thing – not at all. Also a stranger to wit and reason, but with a deep affinity to *, and here’s your vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Fuck off, racist.
Gravenstone
@redshirt:
Fuck It, Drive On
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne (tablet): 51, DC can vote in Presidential elections.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: It was same old same old, really, with the obligatory link to Robert Parry and his numerous, never-named intelligence sources.
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today:
I think you might be from India, as I know they also vote in India. And they have many Socialists.
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: Horseshit, and you know it. I hope your superiors at ¡Heb! HQ are aware of what you’re posting here, and how it’s doing nothing to help the hopeless sack of shit.
trollhattan
@efgoldman: Holy moly, given your recent achievements vis a vie the working world, TT has to be pushing a hundred, junior. Pretty good with the old telegraph, I’d say, based on sentence length alone.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise: OK, we get it, you’re a Chinese dude. Now can we please move on?
Thoughtful Today
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Another hint:
“TT has 50 to choose from.”
Yes. It’s one of those. :)
Right to Rise
@Villago Delenda Est:
Are you calling what Rachel Jeantel said “horseshit”?
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Fuck off, racist.
You can cite any 12 people that you think give you legitimacy: they don’t. You’re still a racist, lying motherfucker.
EriktheRed
@Right to Rise:
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2015/10/i-know-dead-parrot-when-i-see-one.html
Gin & Tonic
@Thoughtful Today: So you voted for FDR, then?
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
No, just calling you a racist.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtful Today:
Ancient Rome?
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
How am I a racist? Remember, I asked how.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise: All of them, Katie.
trollhattan
@Villago Delenda Est:
Define “know.” His/her/its recent absence is best explained by a significant firmware upload, in anticipation of jeb[yawn]’s plunge into Mount Doom. There will be more updated prior to the Q1/16 dropping out (more probably, “suspending my campaign so I can go massage mom’s bunions”).
mclaren
@Villago Delenda Est:
So why the personal animus to Thoughtful Today?
How about we try to uphold the long progressive tradition of dealing with facts, rather than personalities? What separates us from the rethuglicans is that Democrats (ideally, at least) rise above factionalism and sift through the evidence using logic in order to decide the best policies. We Democrats are fact-driven, part of the reality-based community so hated by Karl Rove and his crew.
So please just leave off the snide sneers and vacuous envenomed verbal attacks on Thoughtful Today, and explain to us what facts and logic contradict his assertions. We would all be quite interested to hear that. Then we can have a productive discussion.
Name-calling and kindergarten-level “slam books” full of the names of people we hate are for Republicans. We’re better than that.
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Being called a racist is actually different from being, in reality, a racist.
But of course you’re are a cannibal that has oral sex with toddlers.
See, I just called you those things. I didn’t demonstrate anything. But I called you it. So it must be true, right?
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: I don’t give a flying fuck what Rachel Jeantel (whoever the fuck she is) said, if she ever in fact said it. Because you have zero credibility about anything around these parts. You are a self described operative for the man who single handedly drove John Cole away from the dark side. I’m telling you how everyone else around here interprets that word.
Villago Delenda Est
@mclaren: Because Thoughtful Today is overdoing the butt hurt. It’s annoying.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Read your own fucking posts, unless you’re too stupid to string words together. Does yer Momma type your posts for you?
You’re playing the same games racists always play, when they are too cowardly to own their shit. In that way, George Wallace was far superior to you – he never tried to deny it.
So, fuck off, racist.
Right to Rise
@Villago Delenda Est:
Oh my. Oh my oh my. How soon we forget!
Yesterday’s liberal hero is today’s un-person.
different-church-lady
@mclaren:
Because he’s a haranguing bore?
Just a guess here…
Thoughtful Today
@mclaren:
Ack! Love ya, McLaren, but this is just wrong: “there’s just not that much difference in terms of policy twixt Sanders and Hillary.”
There’s huge differences.
Compared to Republicans those differences shrink, but even then they are still very meaningful.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise: Hey, pull my finger!
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Accusations without evidence.
If you have a triple digit IQ you should be at least able to put together a factual case that I am, in fact, a racist.
Or you could scream four-letter words and make baseless assertions. That’s the other option.
If the latter is the case, I’m going to make sure everybody knows you’re a toddler-raping cannibal.
mclaren
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
At last! Something we can agree on. See? Progress!
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
I’ll type S-L-O-W-L-Y so that you can maybe keep up with things.
By the words you have used in numerous posts tonight, you have demonstrated you are a racist. The sterling example of wingnut “logic” in your second paragraph is yet another example of a wingnut projecting their own behaviors onto others. Wingnut projection has been well documented, you are merely the latest.
So, fuck off, racist.
redshirt
Begun The Troll Wars have.
different-church-lady
@SFAW: Pssst: you’re doing this wrong. Try asking him to pull your finger.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Thoughtful Today:
efgoldman retired at full retirement age a few years ago, so that makes you 85 at a minimum.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
You are certainly free to make libelous/slanderous statements as much as you’d like.
However, doing so does not absolve you of your racism.
ETA: But, your continuing libelous/slanderous statements tell all of us how desperate you’ve become, because you can’t defend your own racism.
redshirt
When mclaren has become the voice of reason…
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
You’re probably right.
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
By the words you have used in numerous posts tonight, you have demonstrated you are a toddler-raping cannibal. The sterling example of libtard “logic” in your second paragraph is yet another example of a libtard projecting their own behaviors onto others. Libtard projection has been well documented, you are merely the latest.
So, go masturbate, toddler-raping cannibal.
Hey, it’s just as fact-free as what you typed above.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Great Flying Spaghetti Monster! When did mclaren finally figure out how to operate a sock puppet?
mclaren
@different-church-lady:
Perhaps you can give me some specific examples of exactly how Thoughtful Today is a “haranguing bore,” as opposed to vague unsubstantiated assertions?
If you examine what you wrote, I think you’ll find that it boils down to “Thoughtful Today said something I did not agree with.”
That might not elicit the level of sympthy you expected…
Gravenstone
@Right to Rise: Flush super PACs didn’t save Perry, or Walker. Why do you think RtR will save the idiot manchild?
redshirt
@different-church-lady: Yeah, too harsh. You got to jigger that troll.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise: Are you going to pull his finger or what?
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Ditto. And it doesn’t absolve of you toddler rape, my nigga.
srv
You people spend so much energy on low energy people.
It’s not good thermodynamics. Think about it.
chopper
@redshirt:
when mclaren is telling everybody to “quit it with the sneers” it means that irony has exploded. the thread is long burned out.
SFAW
@Right to Rise:
Whatever, racist.
seaboogie
@Right to Rise: Go ahead and ride that rocking horse in your nursery all you want, but it’s not a real pony – except in your fevered imagination.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@mclaren:
Of course, what I actually said is that I’m an asshole to assholes. So if I’m an asshole to you, that means … .
Gin & Tonic
Throwing this out here to change the tone before I hit the sack, as this is a pet-friendly blog: woman’s boyfriend mistreats woman’s cat, so she stabs him and he dies. Discuss.
redshirt
@chopper: Truly, it is a Dark Age.
Right to Rise
@SFAW:
Whatever, toddler rapist.
different-church-lady
If someone here would just mention credenzas the night would be perfect!
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic: Seems fair.
redshirt
@srv:
I’m intrigued. Can you explain more?
Gravenstone
@Right to Rise:
They upped your pay to 10 cents a post, didn’t they sparky? You’re really rolling in it now.
Right to Rise
@seaboogie:
Insults, not facts. Very predictable.
Still waiting for someone to demonstrate…demonstrate how I am a racist. Not assert. Not shout, but actually prove it. Using things like, you know, facts.
trollhattan
@different-church-lady:
Na ga happen, but I do have a chifforobe that need breakin’ up.
mclaren
@Thoughtful Today:
I think we’re both saying the same thing in different ways.
The most important and most encouraging aspect of the Democratic presidential primary debates was that all the Democrats seem to have converged around some basic policy positions that bode well for America:
[1] We need strong government action to reduce economic inequality;
[2] We need aggressive enforcement of financial laws and increased regulation to punish and eliminate fraud and crime in the financial markets (except for Hillary’s position, which sadly refuses to go all the way on this — still, she goes part of the way);
[3] We need a lot more help for poor people;
[4] The middle class is vanishing and needs to be revived by direct government policies;
[5] The government needs to do something to reduce the unacceptable level of gun violence in this country;
[6] We need to scale back (ideally, to end) the endless unwinnable foreign wars.
Compare with the wretched 2004 campaign, where John Kerry was trying to become a Republican Lite. We’re worlds better off in 2015 with the Democratic candidates we have now. And all our candidates are sane, something you cannot say about any of the Republican presidential insects.
Right to Rise
@Gravenstone:
I make a great money. Were rollin’ folks.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise: If you would just pull the damn finger you’d have your answers.
trollhattan
@Gravenstone:
You’d think the sheer economics would limit the posts to four or five words, tops.
I think it’s on uppers.
seaboogie
@chopper: Yep.
mclaren
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
It means that you’re eager to drag this conversation down into the gutter.
Not I, alas. I repeat: hurling insults is not a productive form of communication.
You should leave that to the Republicans.
different-church-lady
@mclaren:
At this point he’d have to drag it in the opposite direction.
Right to Rise
@different-church-lady:
Demands to “pull the finger” are signs of white privilege, heterosexist, patriarchal, cissupremacist, white supremacist, neurotypical, and kyriarchichal systems of oppression.
Gravenstone
@Thoughtful Today: You’re mighty spry for someone in their 90s.
different-church-lady
@Right to Rise:
More cut-and-paste rap lyrics from the 90s. Predicable.
srv
@redshirt: I don’t want to get in the way of all y’alls apparent quest to reach a Tbogg Unit.
Jordan Rules
LMFAO! A Cash Money records quote by the Bush guy. Too much irony. They are being sued by their cash cow and are a shadow of their former 90’s/00’s self. Sounds about right I guess.
different-church-lady
@srv: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitant.
Villago Delenda Est
@Right to Rise: Thanks for clarifying so succinctly who the fuck that person is.
I have no fucking idea who you’re talking about, and you’re certainly not doing the obvious thing to enlighten me, so I have to assume it’s more Reich to Rise horseshit.
different-church-lady
@Villago Delenda Est: Pssst: making the horseshit obvious is part of the shtick.
Jesus people…
Thoughtful Today
@mclaren:
Of those six issues, only number 5 has Clinton taken the lead (guns).
The other five issues she’s given vague rhetorical support for that I find meaningless. She’s got a Superdelegate team in Congress that she could be leading on those issues today.
Sanders is far more likely to push those issues as President. Though the flip side is that those same Clinton Superdelegates will be part of the challenge to make those changes.
srv
@different-church-lady: I have always understood that about you.
seaboogie
@Right to Rise: Hey mods – I think you have a ban-hammer for something like this….or a strait-jacket – either would be fine…
I see that the comment was pulled – that’s a start
mclaren
@Villago Delenda Est:
Permit me to observe that verbally bludgeoning someone online and then criticizing that person for “overdoing the butthurt” is, to put it mildly, profoundly uncharitable.
In fact, it smacks of the kind of blame-the-victim games Republicans love. Can’t we all try to show a little more tolerance and common human decency? Are the chasms that separate Hillary supporters from Bernie supporters really so huge…?
Gravenstone
@seaboogie: Maybe a thorazine drip would help.
mclaren
@Thoughtful Today:
I agree with you that Sanders has taken the lead on most of the progressive issues. And Hillary is probably giving lip service to those issues precisely because Sanders is in the race, and pushing her hard with his donations and poll numbers.
But is that a bad thing?
Listen, I’m a pragmatist — I’ll take what I can get. If Sanders pushes Hillary toward the left, that’s still good news to me.
redshirt
Hey Thoughtful Today,
which state will you be
canvassing today?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@mclaren:
Congratulations — you made me LOL with that. I think I scared the cats.
mclaren
@different-church-lady:
I think you mean “part of the precipitate.”
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne (tablet): A knee slapper indeed.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Well, mclaren should know that from direct experience by now, I would think.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: mclaren’s cool now. Check it out!
different-church-lady
@mclaren: Yeah, I probably did, but my fuck dispenser is empty.
srv
Joe-Sixpack Speaketh:
This explains why Obama wants TPP so bad.
mclaren
Meanwhile…
Huckabee Suggests Poor People Should Be Sold Into Slavery For Stealing.
I mean…I just…
Holy crap.
There are no words.
mclaren
There’s also an excellent article on Slate online about the intimate involvement of both Trump and Ben Carson in multi-level marketing scams.
The Get-Rich-Quick Schemers Who Love the GOP — Donald Trump, Ben Carson, and Jeb Bush have something in common: “multilevel marketing” companies that prey upon the desperate and broke.
The three leading Republican presidential candidates are literally snake-oil salesmen who pitch Ponzi schemes to gullible rubes.
seaboogie
@Gravenstone: Agreed. I had a fb friend who seemed to go all sideways like that late at night and decided to unfriend him because he was getting scary in the same way – all of the “logical” arguments and rationalizations – it just depressed me watching it happen, and I couldn’t do it anymore.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@redshirt:
It’s a trick. Get an axe.
(Name that movie, kids!)
Thoughtful Today
@mclaren:
Pragmatically speaking, if Hillary stays to the left on the issues she’s given rhetorical support for in her campaign throughout her Administration, then … win, win, win.
But I’m certain she’ll drop most of those issues the minute the votes are counted next November. Which, unfortunately, makes the primary election partly about character, consistency, and judgement. (And saying as much is part of why there’s so much hate thrown my way.)
Having listened to Bernie for over a decade, and listened to even older CSPAN videos of him from decades before that, I’m certain he won’t change his mind on any of those issues short of clear and compelling evidence.
redshirt
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Batman?
redshirt
@Thoughtful Today: So you’re from Vermont? Voting in Vermont?
mclaren
@redshirt:
Oh, come on! Sam Raimi’s Army of Darkness!
Jeez.
And it would have been even better with Raimi’s original title, The Medieval Dead.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@redshirt:
Probably Quebec.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Same thing, really.
redshirt
@mclaren: I confess to only seeing Evil Dead once and it didn’t make an impression. Sorry!
redshirt
@different-church-lady:
It’s true. Vermont is Quebec’s attempt at foreign meddling.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: Bernie can see Poutine from his house.
redshirt
@different-church-lady:
Also, Montreal. A city of 8 million or so. Just up a few clicks north of Vermont. Like a French New York City. Do you think Vermont has a chance?
mclaren
@redshirt:
Seriously, how can you say that a movie in which Bruce Campbell gets his hand chopped off, then replaces it with a chainsaw and says, “Groovy!” did not make an impression???
Check out Sam Raimi’s A Simple Plan (1998). It’s a non-supernatural non-superhero movie with a hell of a punch. Great film, hugely overloooked. IMHO Raimi’s best.
mclaren
Oh, and speaking of The Evil Dead, this is one of my favorite political cartoons from the last ten years — explicit reference to Ash with president Obama facing down an army of reagonomics zombies.
redshirt
@mclaren: I grew up in the 80’s. That kind of stuff just happened.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: Very aware — seen it from both Jay Peak and Belvidere Mountain. Lovely city — one of the two places in North America where it’s impossible to get a bad meal.
I hope to retire to Vermont as quickly as possible.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
…my fuck dispenser is empty
A new classic. Should go on the rotating thingy at the top of the site.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: Good luck to you. I’ve been to Vermont more times than I care over the past 5 years, but in truth it is a lovely state with lots of green.
Villago Delenda Est
@mclaren: If TT wasn’t so fucking outraged about people “hating” Sanders, I don’t think the reaction to TT would be so negative. Also, too, it seems TT wants to be oppressed. Wants to be a victim. Sort of like all those Christianists out there who revel in their victimhood.
I’m tired of this stupid theater.
Villago Delenda Est
@different-church-lady: I’d just like to see RtR greet some random African-American on the street with a “Whatup nigga” and see what kind of reaction he gets.
Would be amusing, fer sure.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@redshirt:
“Army of Darkness” is the 2nd sequel to “Evil Dead.” Actually, it’s kind of weird because “Evil Dead 2” is really a bigger-budgeted remake of the first one rather than a true sequel, so AoD is really the only one that’s an actual sequel … anyway.
“Army of Darkness” is 90 percent comedy and maybe 10 percent horror, plus it has some of the most quotable movie lines ever. Definitely worth catching it on cable or streaming when you have a beer nearby. “Evil Dead 2” is also fun, but definitely has a lot more outright horror in it.
sukabi
@Right to Rise: that’s not his power, he’d be the tool…if he could keep his feet out of his mouth.
Eric
@dmsilev: “We may never know who won the 2000 Presidential Election.”
-John Paul Stevens
Dissent, Bush v. Gore
Applejinx
Daaaaang D:
You know, the downside of Troll Wars is that it becomes hard to pick out the real insanity from the chaff.
I still think Hillary’s such a natural politician that her hawkishness is malleable. Seeing what she sees in the electorate today, she won’t necessarily tack right if elected. It would be essentially embracing the Bush legacy, and that’s the last thing she wants.
The trouble there is the same trouble I see Obama dealing with around the Straits of Malacca: acting as the United States is bound to be pretty obnoxious, because you’re elbow to elbow with states like Russia and China and they throw elbows quite eagerly. Awkward. To some extent what we see when people get in office is their reactions to the reality of the world. They have to react to things but then they also have to show intention, which needs to not be ‘kill everyone!’.
As for Brinks Trucks Of Corporate Cash, Scott Walker had lots of those too. I read it in Bloomberg.
low-tech cyclist
Politifact rates this story “mostly true.” :D
low-tech cyclist
@Ruckus:
Of course, that could be taken more than one way.
But being a gentleman (not to mention married), I won’t volunteer to refill her dispenser.
Another Holocene Human
@scav: You’re onto something with that.
This guy was surely insufferable long before Bernie announced.
Another Holocene Human
@BillinGlendaleCA: Also Puerto Rico, 0 electoral college votes but don’t the parties include their votes in their presidential preference primary?
Another Holocene Human
@Gin & Tonic:
Must be that felon Wayne dude from Fox.
Another Holocene Human
@different-church-lady:
It’s a well known fact that East Asians [or Jews, or South Asians, or froggy froggy Frenchies] are never racist against Black people.
Unpossible. It’s also unpossible for East Asians to be racist against other East Asians. That’s why rumors of a racial, genocidal war during the Japanese imperialist period are a damned lie and the Pacific theater was a vision of peace and prosperity from 1939-1945.
Lurking Canadian
@Villago Delenda Est: The woman he referred to was the bereaved friend of Trayvon Martin. I believe he was actually on the phone with her when the altercation with Zimmerman began.
I believe there were some irregularities in her testimony, not unexpected when a traumatized teenager finds herself suddenly in the spotlight, but seized upon by racists to prove Trayvon had it coming. She apparently also used the word “nigga” at least once, which our racist troll is trying to use as a shield to justify his racism.
Another Holocene Human
@mclaren: that’s a great programme, but you left off reining in the police, the racism, the brutality, the extra-legal activity
you also left off reproductive freedom. Maybe it only directly affects some people but it indirectly ripples out to affect us all.
Another Holocene Human
@mclaren:
Now is when “true Christians” should be loudly and publicly proclaiming that this isn’t Christian and Huckabee is not one, but I know what we’re actually going to hear.
…
…
…
Another Holocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: Random people in public tend to avoid conflict. What he should do is accost either:
a) a celebrity rap star
b) a police officer
c) fellow arrestee in the holding cell at the county jail
assuming someone is recording the results. Delivery is key. How punchable is RtR’s face?
Villago Delenda Est
@Another Holocene Human: Probably as punchable as ¡Heb!’s, I’d imagine.
Pretty punchable.
J R in WV
@different-church-lady:
We got a credenza last year at the Habitat for Humanity ReStore. It’s maple, so a pale wood, and the top is glass, raised about 6 inches above the body of the credenza by the sides coming higher than the body. I have various collectibles sitting on the top under the glass, so they don’t get dusty so quickly.
The body of the credenza has two drawers in the middle and too doors about 18 x18 inches on either side. We have placemats and napkins in the drawers and techy bits like usb cables, external hard drives, speakers, etc in one door compartment, and optical gadgets like cameras, lenses, binoculars, etc in the other compartment.
It’s very handy!!
Hope this helps!
johnnybuck
Dang, I miss everything :(
Eolirin
@Thoughtful Today: Unless by some miracle the dems wi
john fremont
@Jeffro: I thought that was Barney Frank’s fault. At least that was what the email I got from all of my GOP coworkers said.
joel hanes
This one was along Hwy 18 in northern Iowa:
He lit a match
To check gas tank
That’s why they call him
Skinless Frank.
Burma Shave
chopper
not to walk into a dead thread, but I must admit mclaren is much better when he/she decides to be medication compliant. funny to read the lectures on “tone” tho.
Jymn
Overheard at the White House water cooler:
Condi: Did you read that memo, “Bin Laden determined to strike in US”?
W: You mean another one of those memos from that crazy Richard Clarke?”
CondiL: LOL. What a weirdo.
W: (Pause). Who’s Bin Laden?
mclaren
@Another Holocene Human:
Reining in the police is easy to deal with. Body cams. They’re coming, and studies show that police officers’ use of force drops by more than 50% just because they’re wearing body cams. Citizens complaints about brutality drop by 80% in precincts that use body cams on the police.
As for racism…I don’t think one president or one political party can make a big dent there. That’s a societal problem. It’s baked into the way white people are acculturated in America.
The good news? This continual deluge of videos of grotesque police brutality is already making a big impact on white privilege, and will continue to do so. Over time, white folks are starting to wake up and realize, “Hey! This is the stuff that goes on when you’re black that white people like myself never see.” So there’s a good chance that over time, white folks will start to examine their own attitudes and adjust their behavior. Groups like Black Lives Matter and eloquent individuals like Ta-Nehisi Coates are also making a big difference, so I see real signs of progress in regard to racism.
The police brutality and pervasive illegality are mostly the result of the misbegotten fake War On Terror. 9/11 recedes in everyone’s memory, there’s hope that we’ll eventually repeal the USA Treason Act — excuse me, the USA Patriot Act, and shut down gitmo, and stop the extraordinary rendition and warrantless wiretapping.
Not sure what to do about reproductive freedom, because the laws protecting that already on the books. Roe v. Wade has been decided. The problem is that some states are trying to make abortion effectively impossible using backdoor methods. Maybe the next Democratic president can unleash some DOJ hell on those states that are violating the spirit of the Roe v. Wade ruling.
mclaren
@chopper:
And I must admit that chopper is much better when he/she decides not to do crystal meth while molesting small children.
He who lives by the unsubstantiated smear, dies by the unsubstantiated smear.
Cervantes
@mclaren:
I’m not sure I agree.