As I’ve mentioned, I’m going on a trip shortly, but not with my nuclear family. My siblings and I are off to the Carolinas, where we plan to honor our late mother on what would have been her birthday by spending some time in a place that was special to her.
My sister and I were going to do some hiking in the Appalachians on this trip (leaving little brother in charge of monitoring the dogs, football games and BBQ pit), but there has been major flooding in the area, so we may have to change our plans. Also there’s a hurricane in the Atlantic with an uncertain path (Hurricane Joe Quinn, according to the cashier at the Winn-Dixie).
It would be ironic if a family of Floridians traveled to the mountains and got whacked by a hurricane. Oh well. At least we’re used to the rain.
Open thread!
PS: You can vote for your favorite John Cole post here. Data is being gathered!
aimai
Love to you and your family, Betty Cracker, and tip a libation in the name of your mother. She sounded like she was an incredible woman.
prufrock
Hiking the Appalachian Trail? Watch out for Argentinians and Republican governors!
JPL
Enjoy your vacation with you siblings. Although it will be bittersweet, sharing memories of good times are special.
Watch out for Joaquin though.
Patricia Kayden
Hope you have a wonderful vacay with your family in the Carolinas and that Hurricane Quinn diverts and subsides. It’s supposed to impact Southern Maryland as well by this weekend.
satby
Hope the leaf peeping is good for your travels! The colors are just beginning here, but it’s not looking like one of the better years for color. Luckily, my exchange daughters haven’t seen autumn colors URL ever, so even the poor showing so far they find very beautiful. And helps me remember to be grateful for the chance to see it every year.
shell
Re: the Hurricane. The forecasters keep using the phrase, ‘The Cone Of Uncertainty’. I thought they were referring to the GOP 2016 candidates.
maurinsky
My fiance and I are getting married in 10 days!
raven
We’re off to LA at 0 dark hundred. The Bohdi is hip to suitcases and doesn’t like it at all. When we think about it we’ve left them about 4 times in 11 years so that ain’t bad. My sis has a bunch on antique guns that her hubby’s father left. No one out there wants them so I’m dragging two rifle cases with me and I’m going to bring some back. She sold one that was civil war vintage and got robbed so at least I can sell them and get a decent price if that’s the way they decide to go.
ThresherK (GPad)
@shell: Sounds like a new flavor at Ben & Jerry’s scoop shops.
Cervantes
@maurinsky:
Mazel tov!
TaMara (BHF)
I have to rant before I can get my day started. I’m just flabbergasted by people. My friend and colleague lost her spouse last week. I’m trying to cover work for her because without her I would not have a business/clients/skills.
I spoke with a vendor yesterday who needed insurance information. I did my best with absolutely no guidance from the vendor on what they exactly needed – turns out I got them the incorrect information. They were fully aware of the situation with my friend, etc. They were stuck with me trying to do this.
And when I became frustrated because they were not being clear on the information they needed and I was totally confused, they said to me, not once, but three times I needed to ask my friend. WTF!
We haven’t even had the funeral yet. How was this conversation going to go? “Hey, I know you’re in the middle of the worst week of your life, but pull it together woman, we need this information.”
I hung up the phone and wrote a scathing email to this person and her boss.
This happened yesterday afternoon and I’m still fuming. I suppose it’s a combination of grief, anger and frustration.
Thank you for giving me a place vent. I have to let go of this and move on today.
Carry on.
Hawes
Joe Quinn.
I’m dying.
Cervantes
Enjoy your trip to the Carolinas, Betty Cracker!
The French Broad, not far from where we have a home in the area, usually discharges about four hundred cubic feet of water per second. Yesterday’s flow peaked at seven thousand cubic feet per second.
jibeaux
Peak season for Floridians in the Appalachians has passed, but you may still spot some. Their plumage is Cadillacs going 10 mph below the speed limit.
father pussbucket (fka gnomedad)
So the Peruvians convinced the Pope to meet with Kim Davis, Muslim water on Mars is a global warming conspiracy because reasons, and Boner is being replaced by someone who won’t cave to libruls. If this isn’t Peak Wingnut, just shoot me.
TaMara (BHF)
@maurinsky: Woot!! Congrats.
JPL
Dave Weigel has a link to another post at Washington Examiner, who says Gowdy is not going to run for reelection. I hope it is true………..
@TaMara (BHF): I’m sorry. You have every right to rant.
Iowa Old Lady
@TaMara (BHF): That is so dense as to be cruel. I’m sorry.
dedc79
A Walk in the Woods 2: This Time With a Hurricane
Cervantes
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad):
Not sure about that, but the Vatican has now confirmed that they met.
Betty
@TaMara (BHF): Some days all you can say is “People!” Glad venting made you feel better. So sorry for your friend’s loss. Besides the grief, she will have lots to deal with just getting her life back in order. She will need you in the month’s ahead.
Mike E
All the rain has knocked down our fall foliage display some, but you may see some colorful views nonetheless…am I the only one who thinks September had 34 days this year seemingly?! Sheesh.
Cacti
Can we stop throwing bouquets at the “liberal” Pope for a few minutes now?
During his U.S. tour, Pope Francis made time for a private face to face with Kentucky religious martyr Kim Davis.
Tommy
@jibeaux: I walk a lot. I am jealous. Appalachian Trail. Have some fun there. I got an entire three-ring binder of the entire trail. Thought I’d walk it all.
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
Then again, from the story at your link:
Cacti
Also too, John Boehner’s would be replacement, Kevin McCarthy goes on Hannity, accidentally admits that the purpose of the Benghazi Select Commitee was to damage Clinton politically.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
Has it now? Where did it say that?
jeffreyw
@Cervantes:
I’m such a dirty old man my first thought was Brigitte Bardot.
gogol's wife
Of course. My husband and I are trying to go somewhere by plane for the first time in a year, so of course there will be a hurricane hitting the East Coast on the day we’re trying to get back. Of course.
Patricia Kayden
@Cacti: I don’t really hear anyone say that the Pope is liberal just that he’s nicer than the other ones (especially the one he replaced). He seems to be more customer friendly with all the kissing of children and disabled people.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
See here.
kindness
So Betty is going hiking the Appalatian Trail, eh? And without her brood you say?
Where have I heard that before?
Mike E
@jeffreyw: Our river is yuuuge, and classy!
danielx
Hmmmmm….favorite Cole post.
There are so many to choose from, but I’m thinking one of his disasters involving common household utensils.
Gin & Tonic
@gogol’s wife: Hadn’t seen you around yesterday, and thought you’d appreciate this story.
Mike E
@Cacti: Heh, nice srv impersonation there.
benw
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad):
It’s not peak wingnut, this is just business-as-usual wingnut. Sounds like @raven‘s the one toting the artillery today, but maybe you can convince him to just give you a flesh wound.
Roger Moore
@shell:
No, that’s the Cone of Insanity.
Lee
This is by far my favorite hurricane tracking site.
Simple yet still with lots of data.
raven
@benw: With an 8 gauge Purdey double barrel muzzle loader! My sis sent pictures and I asked her if the Purdey as the one with the broken stock? She asked “is that the wood part”!
Tommy
@Patricia Kayden: I am an atheist so hard for me to like the Pope. But he seems like a nice guy.
raven
@Lee: Nice
low-tech cyclist
You’ll not see nothing like the mighty Quinn.
gogol's wife
@Gin & Tonic:
Молодцы!
Lee
@TaMara (BHF):
If it happens again during this time. Just tell the person that you will try to get them the information they need. If it is wrong or incomplete, they will have to wait until the other person returns. So any help they can offer will get them the information quicker.
gogol's wife
@Roger Moore:
The comments on various weather sites (since I’m obsessively checking this every 15 minutes hoping somebody will say it’s “going out to sea”) are full of, “Har har har, they can’t predict the storm 3 days in advance, but we’re supposed to believe their models about climate change can predict the next century, har har har libruls.”
father pussbucket (fka gnomedad)
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad):
Arrgh! Please delete my previous comment — cut and paste error from grading papers.
Once again:
That’s my understanding.
Francis is still Heir to the Empire and all that, but he actually seems to believe the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath and that’s yuge, IMO. He’s also unmasked all the pious climate deniers.
srv
I’m hiking the Great Smoky next month whether its raining or not. It’s what we do.
Steeplejack
@maurinsky:
Congratulations!
the Conster
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad):
From the NYT.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
A cagey non-denial from a very PR-conscious Pontiff.
Yeah, the meeting happened.
srv
@the Conster: That will teach those doubters last night another lesson.
I never post anything false.
MattF
The Capital Weather Gang’s forecast for this weekend has gotten ominous.
ETA: My free advice: get to high ground.
benw
@raven: Very nice, very classy way to get shot. I like your sister already!
Roger Moore
@benw:
And with an 8 gauge, it definitely classifies as Youge!
Heliopause
So I opened up the National Hurricane Center this morning and their updated cone for Joaquin has him doing a Sandy rerun.
Betty Cracker
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad): Done. I hate it when that happens!
MazeDancer
Pope meeting with Kim Davis would undermine a billion dollar trip made for PR purposes. Doing so would make launching New Coke look like genius marketing.
Maybe Pope’s enemies snuck her in a group meet & greet just for that purpose. That they fear Francis too liberal, so they’ll make sure liberals in America now reject their new found admiration for the Pope.
Nothing about this makes sense. Not Pope’s meeting her, not the waiting til now to discuss, not anything about it. How would “address Congress, address UN, and meet with Kentucky non-Catholic gay hater and undermine all efforts” fit on the same agenda?
And imagine how all the rich Catholics who were told “he’s not having private meetings” might feel.
RSA
We’ve had bullshit weather (I might be misusing a technical term here) in the Raleigh area for the past week. A week ago we were half an inch below the average rainfall for the month; as of today we’re more than two inches above average. I hope it’s better where you’ll be wandering.
raven
@benw: Her FIL was raised on a ranch in Arizona and was a real cowpoke. He left all these guns and no one else is the least bit interested and they have been in a safe for over 10 years. I want to bring back the ones I think are most valuable and see what I can do abut selling them. I also want to keep the 1873 Winchester, it would fill out my 4 rifle rack quite nicely.
raven
@RSA: Yep, it’s sucked in Athens too.
Davebo
OT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
raven
@Davebo: You can’t be off topic in an open thread.
Matt McIrvin
@Cervantes: The band They Might Be Giants once went on a tour on which they wrote a new song themed after every venue where they played (they were then collected in an album of sorts). One of the prettiest songs that came out of this was in honor of the Orange Peel in Asheville, and it’s written from the POV of a sentient orange peel, thinking about being thrown away and washed away by the flooding French Broad River. So that’s what comes to mind whenever I hear the name.
Goblue72
@Davebo: NYT also reporting Pope made an unscheduled stop to visit a group sueing the Feds over the ACA’s contraception mandate.
Methinks the liberal love fest for the Pope may be over. Everyone back to your usual positions.
benw
@raven: So you’re one rifle short of a 4-rack, is what you’re saying?
father pussbucket (fka gnomedad)
@MazeDancer:
Faaascinating. I realize he’s a conservative on sex, but this does seem remarkably un-savvy for him.
dedc79
Yankees fan gets three shots at a foul ball in one game and goes 0-3.
ThresherK (GPad)
I am reminded of a Patrick McManus story about how he and his best friend planned a Big Camping Trip during a drought, specifically because it always rained on their trips. The townspeople sent them off with a celebration fit for a knight going to the Crusades.
Maybe Betty had ought to try California next?
Cervantes
@benw:
Not sure I’d mock a man with three rifles.
Cacti
@father pussbucket (fka gnomedad):
While the Pope may be a man of the world, he’s not particularly experienced with domestic U.S. politics, and apparently, neither are his handlers.
I’m guessing he really thought these meetings with U.S. wingnuttia would be off the record affairs because they were behind closed doors.
Cervantes
@Matt McIrvin:
Pretty song, but angry, too!
Mike in NC
@MazeDancer: Pope stepped on his dick by injecting himself into the Kimmy Davis freakshow. Did he not have time to wash Ted Cruz’s feet?
So much for the media crowing about the Francis Effect bringing people back to the church.
Patricia Kayden
@Cacti: It’s always nice when they admit the truth — even if inadvertently. As if we already didn’t know what Benghazi committees were all about though. Ditto the “email scandal” investigations.
Matt McIrvin
@Heliopause: I’ve been watching it on Weather Underground. The models for Joaquin are all over the place right now. It could make landfall anywhere from Cape Cod to North Carolina or it could even spin out to sea.
They’re more consistent in showing the intensity peaking around Saturday and slacking off after that, so if it hits further north it’ll probably be as a Cat 1 or a tropical storm.
Bobby Thomson
Fuck the pope. If he were serious about global warming he’d allow contraception. Better than the Nazi who preceded him, but talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
benw
@Cervantes: Whoops. Maybe I should have just told him he’s got a nice rack.
Matt McIrvin
Popes gotta pope. Being politically savvy might not have even entered into it.
Heliopause
@Goblue72:
It never should have existed in the first place. Francis has changed tone and emphasis but very little in terms of fundamentals. Our species is easily fooled by simple PR tricks.
Cervantes
@Matt McIrvin:
Here’s what I enjoy:
One minute we understand the Pope so well that we know he’d never make the mistake of granting Kim Davis a meeting — and therefore her (lying) attorney must (obviously) be lying (obviously). (Did I mention that the attorney must obviously have been lying?)
The next minute we understand the Pope so well that we see his myriad reactionary weaknesses — and therefore we can also see exactly how he must have been led blindly into making this big mistake.
raven
@benw: I keep mine for keepsakes not protection.
Felanius Kootea
@maurinsky: Congratulations!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
to say nothing of poverty.
Elizabelle
I knew this was a Betty Cracker post. And it made me laugh.
Cacti
@Bobby Thomson:
I give credit where it is due, and fully acknowledge the current Pope’s role in helping thaw US/Cuba relations. A Pope from the old country couldn’t have made that happen. His public stances on pollution and global climate change are also in the positive column.
But he was a deeply homophobic man as Cardinal Bergoglio, and that doesn’t seem to have changed with his elevation. Also, one cannot credibly claim to be anti-poverty while simultaneously being anti-birth control.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ve got MSNBC on mute, from the chyrons and images John McCain is upset that we’re not going all in on a proxy war in Syria
ETA: Ah, it’s the Andrea Mitchell hour. I’ve been exposed to her more consistently in the last few months, mostly in the car. She consistently trolled the Iran deal, and seems rather keen to get some war on in Syria. If she’s not a full on neocon, she’ll do till one comes along.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
We were not so much presuming to know the Pope well, as we were expecting him to have the diplomatic sense to keep a discreet distance from his host nation’s internal politics.
Felanius Kootea
I can’t believe it’s technically fall already. I hate winter with a passion because I have seasonal affective disorder (grew up in Nigeria and moved here youngish but my body never adjusted to the different quality of sunlight). Even moving from Boston to SoCal I still have SAD and vitamin D deficiency at winter-time. Spring and summer are the best times of the year for me. Thank God for the doctors who prescribed a light box and vitamin d supplements. They’ve been a lifesaver.
amk
@Cervantes:
For one who claimed to be agnostic about this meeting two threads below, you sure are busy talking about this in every thread and every post about it.
Elizabelle
Disappointed in Pope Francis about the Kim Davis meeting. I did not believe it when the story first broke. Irritated with Papa Francisco on behalf of Mrs. and Mrs. Elmo and all others who are gay, or who like/love/respect gay people. Slap in the face there.
That said: the Pope’s speech to Congress on climate change and against the death penalty, and his being more approachable (that tiny Fiat), are very brave and forward-looking.
Will take the good with the not good, cuz it’s more than we’ve gotten from his two archconservative predecessor Popes.
It’s true that population control would go a long way towards reducing stress (environmental and political) on our earth. And that said: education (of girls and women, especially) and supporting NGOs that do a lot of good go a lot farther than papal words there. Pope’s not the last word on that topic. Our actions and money can have a big impact too.
I still like and admire Pope Francis, and wish him well. He’s a change for the new and better, but he is of a Church still mired in the 18th century (if that, on some issues).
benw
@raven: Whew. I really dodged a bullet there.
Heliopause
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah, still a lot of uncertainty. I just found it morbidly interesting that the center of the cone is on the Jersey coast. I wonder if Christie and Obama will have another little hugfest.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah. MSNBC on in background. They cut from interview with my whipsmart congresscritter, Gerry Connolly, to go to President McCain’s Senate floor speech.
They always choose the boys with the bombs over the girls’ issues (Planned Parenthood — no, look over there — Putin and ISIL!)
Let’s face it. President John McCain rules NBC’s media properties.
Elizabelle
@Heliopause: There’s allegedly less of Christie to hug this year.
raven
@benw: :)
ruemara
I only own prop guns, besides practice swords and I’m disappointed in the pop on this, but otherwise, he’s still loads above every Pope in my lifetime.
Since this is an open thread, I added more shots to my photo site. New Cosplay as well as event galleries and an expanded flora gallery.
raven
@ruemara: I like the Buffalo Soldiers. . . .Dread Lock Ratsa.
Peale
If Russia would like to take over the role of “Mideast Savior” and “Defeater of all Militants”, I’m not certain why it would be in our interest to stop them. As far as I can tell, one doesn’t get a lot of benefits from the role
Goblue72
@Amir Khalid: Who knows- maybe he’s quite aware. As Matt noted above, Pope’s gotta Pope. Maybe these secret-but-not-really meetings with wingnuttia were a nod to another audience – the community of cardinals, archbishops et al – both U.S. and abroad, who tend be fairly conservative, that he’s not gonna rock the boat THAT much & he’s in their corner on the issues they really care about – the gays and the fetuses.
srv
Suck it, Apple haters. We’re entering a post-iPhone era.
Peale
@srv: Let me adjust my google glass to read that quote again.
the Conster
The Pope prays for, and gives rosaries for everyone he meets. It’s entirely possible, and probably likely, that this meeting was just another one of those things that was approved by some DC local, he shows up, does a pope thing and moves on. He did not call for the meeting – he doesn’t speak English very well, and who knows how the meeting was characterized to him.
Steeplejack
Got off the phone a while ago with Kaiser Permanente, making a one-time payment for October and also setting up autopay (again!) for the future. As a Kaiser (medical) executive once said to my brother, Kaiser is a great medical institution yoked to a mediocre insurance company. This is the second time in a year I’ve had to do this, but the (very nice) person on the phone assured me that everything is fixed now. I tried to express my lingering distrust of the somewhat flaky website (which is why I got on the phone in the first place), but I think that was discounted as CGW (confused geezer whining). Anyway, that’s done, and now I am basking in a spurious feeling of accomplishment. A good way to end the month.
I am ready for the change of seasons. It has been getting cooler and gloomier—in a pleasant, seasonally appropriate way—here in NoVA for a couple of weeks, and tomorrow it’s dropping into full autumn mode: highs in the 50s and low 60s through the weekend, with lots of rain from Joaquin. I think it will be nice.
I am dithering about going to Rehoboth Beach on Friday. My brother got the certificate of occupancy for his beach house after its renovation, and the movers are bringing stuff Saturday morning that was put into storage during the reno. I guess I should go see the dream house before it gets blown down. I kid, I kid. It’s not actually on the beach, it’s in “downtown” Rehoboth, but it’s only a few blocks from the beach. The drive from D.C. is a little under three hours, mostly pleasant (if you avoid the weekend “rush hour” times), on two-lane roads through flat Delaware farmland. I like getting out for a road trip, and rain doesn’t faze me, but I’m not looking to tangle with torrential downpours. Will monitor the forecasts and check with bro’ man to see if he has thought about rescheduling the movers.
D58826
@Elizabelle: I agree with the point that he supposed made that a citizen has the right to object to a state action based on a a sincerely held belief. The part that didn’t seem to get said is that there may well be consequences to acting on that objection. Conscientious objection is not a get out of jail free card for every law that we disagree with. And that is what the religious right seems to be claiming, at least insofar as their Christian beliefs are concerned. I doubt that they would support a Muslim shopkeeper who refused to serve women not wearing a burka. Or a jihadi who kills a cartoonist for offending the Prophet.x
While we may make accommodations for Conscientious objectors, such as Quakers in the military, there has to be an agreed set of ground rules around the accommodation. What I have noticed in all of this is that the religious right is concerned about the impact on Kim Davis or the Little Sisters of the Poor with the contraceptive mandate but what about the folks on the other side of the equation. If Davis doesn’t want to issue marriage licenses that’s fine but the gay couple is now being burdened. Don’t they have a right not to be burdened by her decision? If the Little Sisters don’t want to send in a postcard because the act burdens their conscience that’s fine but what about the women who wind up pregnant because they don’t have access to birth control? Aren’t they being burdened in a much more physical and tangible way? Or is this only a one sided equation.? When it comes to Davis and the Pope I think we know the answer to that one.I Davis has even taken it to the level that she doesn’t want the name of the office on the form. She doesn’t own the office (sigh but it looks like she get away with it)
Cervantes
@amk:
I can’t help your illiteracy.
Never could.
amk
@Cervantes:
Yeah, I know you feel. I will be pissed off too if I got called out. Enjoy your papal moments.
MattF
@Goblue72: I think the Pope has taken some bad advice here. It’s fair to note that he is normally pretty much surrounded by religious fanatics– ‘tend to be fairly conservative’ is quite an understatement. And there is an (IMO) valid religious freedom/conscientious objection argument that Davis could make, it’s just not the argument she’s actually making.
OregonDem420
Okay, time to quit lurking and start commenting. So lets talk climate change! Always seemed to me like the rest of the business community would eventually stop shielding the carbon merchants out of sheer self-interest. Saw several articles over the past week that prompted me to wonder: is this finally starting to happen? To me, climate change is so dangerous to civilization that it is worth working with as many allies as possible to stop it, no matter how odious, and Corporate America has an increasing financial interest to join the fight. It makes me see an advantage to having Democratic politicians who are cozy with Corporate America, IF they are willing to lead a broad coalition to quickly ramp down carbon pollution with appropriate urgency.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
This is similar to what some conservatives said about the Pope making any comments about climate change.
I think that everything that Kim Davis believes and stands for is incorrect, but I don’t see the Pope’s actions as being inconsistent with his theological positions. I am almost amused that this Pope found a way to do something that displeased as much as his other statements pleased observers.
ETA: Yeah, Pope’s gotta Pope
FlipYrWhig
@MattF: IANAL but AFAIK, the valid accommodation is that she doesn’t have to issue the licenses herself but she also can’t stop other people who don’t have her objections from issuing licenses in her place. That wasn’t good enough for her. I don’t remember military conscientious objectors getting to prevent _other people_ from willingly going to war because in their opinion war is evil.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
And when he made comments about poverty alleviation, and banning the death penalty, and dealing with climate change, and so on, those subjects had nothing to do with his host nation’s internal politics? Where was his “discreet distance” then?
Cervantes
@benw:
About not mocking a man with three rifles … I still think maybe you’re … not clear on the concept?
D58826
@Cervantes: Actually he could have made the same points in t any other country in the world. Climate change is a global issue not an American one. If he had endorsed Obama’s emission standards , THAT would have been interfering with a host country’s internal politics. Kim Davis is an American problem
Cervantes
@the Conster:
See the comments he made on the way home, about “conscientious objectors.” He was responding to a question that alluded to Ms. Davis.
MomSense
Have fun, Betty!
I didn’t have time his morning to read the memorable Cole thread this morning but I did flirt with imitation of one of his bizarro domestic injuries.
We lost power this morning while I was in the middle of my shower. I was covered in suds when the room was suddenly pitch black. Aside from getting shampoo in my eyes, I thankfully avoided Cole like injury or property damage.
Yatsuno
@maurinsky: MAZEL TOV!!!
Clock is ticking on the federal budget. No sign yet that things are passing and the Senate is dragging its feet expecting the House to go light speed. This could get ugly…
Cervantes
@amk:
I got “called out”?
Fascinating.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
Well, he did try to be discreet — the only reason we know about the Kim Davis visit is that her lawyers sent out a blast fax, and the Vatican denied it at first. I suspect the Vatican PR folks are pretty pissed off this morning.
The other thing is something that a lot of people don’t seem to understand about the Catholic Church — the Pope is required to follow doctrine and dogma, and any official changes (like allowing gay marriage) have to go through multiple committees (usually called “councils”) that take years. The doctrine and dogma changes in Vatican II weren’t changes that John XXIII came up with on his own — they were debated and refined for over a decade before they were implemented.
So, yes, the Pope is required to continue the RCC’s official stand that gay people can’t get married and birth control is sinful. What he *can* do is choose how much emphasis to put on various things. So he made a public speech in front of Congress about climate change, and he had a discreet private meeting with Kim Davis. That signals where his priorities are going to be as Pope, and probably means he’s not going to spend a lot of energy or political capital on fighting gay marriage even as he ritually denounces it.
Cervantes
@D58826:
No, they’re both problems Americans have to deal with. One of them is a problem only Americans have to deal with (we hope).
Matt McIrvin
@Heliopause: This is also a situation where the standard cone of uncertainty doesn’t do justice to the odds, since the probability distribution is so asymmetric, with a longer tail on the north than on the south. It’ll probably firm up in a couple of days.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Really?
They lied?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Cervantes:
The stories I’ve seen started with a denial last night or early this morning, then a “neither confirm not deny,” and then finally a confirmation. I don’t really have the time to find each and every story for you with every iteration and update, but there’s this amazing site called Google that can find stuff like that for you.
Brachiator
@srv:
I am amazed that anyone would buy an Apple watch for the price they charge for it. I’m not too hot on Android watches either, but they have not yet hit the level of conspicuous consumption.
Not an Apple hater, but I don’t think we have quite hit the post-iPhone era. Smartphones have hit a kind of lull where innovation has stalled, but there is still much more that these devices can do.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Cervantes:
Also, if you’re going to edit a comment after posting it, you should mark the addition.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Of course, you don’t. Of course, you don’t!
goblue72
@MattF: Agreed. I didn’t say whether I thought it was a smart political move on his part – just that it might not have been all that accidental.
And yes, I was soft-pedaling. Didn’t want to say ” who tend be fairly
conservativebatshit insanely reactionary rightwing nutbars”. Even if I was thinking it.Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
What if I were to say “I don’t really have the time”?
goblue72
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I saw the same thing in the news. Denial along with some reports that it happened, but only on rightwing blogs (Breitbart, The Blaze). Then the neither confirm nor deny in MSM reporting. Then finally – “yeah, ok, you caught us – we met with her. And with those crazy anti-ACA nuns as well.”
For an institution with a serious problem regarding truthfulness, you’d think they’d just own up to it.
Poopyman
@Yatsuno: “Could get”? This is the Republican House and Senate we’re talking about. They’ve been ugly so long the delivering doctor slapped their mothers.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Cervantes:
Wevs, dude. If you don’t believe me and the other people here who saw the same progression of the stories, prove us wrong.
And you can play games by editing your comments after people reply to them if you want, but you only succeed in looking like a dishonest jerk when people notice it.
goblue72
@Poopyman: Nice.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Should I link to every site where there is no record of a denial? Don’t be silly. You say you saw a denial, so do the right thing.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@goblue72:
Given that it was a private meeting, the spokespriest at the Vatican might not have known about it. Like I said, the PR flacks are probably a little pissed at the US handlers right now for hanging them out to dry like that.
Cervantes
@goblue72:
Link?
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I don’t know. I cannot imagine that the Vatican would be displeased. They very carefully selected people and groups with whom the Pontiff would appear in order to emphasize the points and stances that the Pope wanted to emphasize.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Brachiator:
Right, but if you look at the New York Times article Cacti posted above, the official Vatican spokesperson who eventually confirmed it refused to discuss it. It was not a public meeting. That’s why I think the Vatican PR folks are probably annoyed that it was made public and now they have to deal with the fallout.
ruemara
@raven: you would have enjoyed the other shots. I got to talk with an antique weaponsmith who had a series of cleaned up time appropriate handguns as well as rifles. Some of them were very beautiful.
MazeDancer
Kentucky Bishop snuck Kim Davis into Pope meet as his guest. Vatican did not request meet. Not clear if Vatican vetted any guest lists.
Thus Kentucky Bishop undermines Pope’s trip and Pope’s “liberal” agenda.
J.D. Rhoades
Enjoy NC. Hope the weather cooperates. We were up in Boone last weekend and it rained the whole time. But we still had a blast.
Heliopause
CNN is so, so hoping for a shooting war with Russia.
Elie
I am actually glad that this Pope meeting will take a little hero worship away from this good man, but an agent of a very conservative church. I appreciate that Pope Francis stands up for the poor and weak, but the Catholic Church (and other Christian denominations), have done little to actually help the poor and weak by advocating for REAL change and REAL “revolution” here on earth. Too much of the dogma is focused on the “world to come”, when its the world NOW that needs to be changed and fought for. Pope Francis let that sympathizer to humanist causes mask slip a little and we are reminded that in the end he is just a priest in the same order that sponsored burning heretics during the Inquisition —
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Then they are dopes. And I don’t think this Pope is a dope.
The reports I read say that the Vatican reached out to Davis. And with everyone else who met with the Pope talking about it, it would be absurd for any Vatican official to suggest that Davis treat the meeting as though it took place under a cone of silence.
@MazeDancer
If this really was the case, then they ARE dopes. Hard to imagine that a guest list would not be vetted, especially if the Pope actually spoke to Davis. These audiences have been happening for a long time. It would be like saying that Queen Elizabeth knighted a stranger who popped in uninvited to Buckingham Palace.
D58826
@Cervantes: I should have said not ‘just an American one’
Cervantes
@D58826:
Sure, but you’re still only talking about climate change. Not that I agree with your reasoning there but, leaving that aside for a minute, what about the Pope’s comments on poverty alleviation, the death penalty, and so on? If he could legitimately involve himself in those debates, why not in the one about gay marriage in Kentucky? How is involving himself in the latter any more illegitimate than in the former?
Cervantes
@Elie:
The founder of “liberation theology” feels the Church is a lot more open to it now under Francis.
Elie
@Cervantes:
That is probably true but it has a way to go, as do most Christian and non Christian religions. At the end of the day, there is more promotion of accepting your lot/rank/situation in life (with handouts of a few crumbs from the powerful who are asked to be “merciful”) The status quo pretty much is the status quo and the powerful really aren’t challenged except with words. And I appreciate how dangerous it would be for religious people to lead the weak and poor against the powerful. We have seen priests murdered during the civil rights period in the US. This kind of stand is pretty rare however. Can you imagine the power if there was a thousand priest march on Washington DC to support the poor? And that wouldn’t even really mean anything except marching. Can you imagine if the Baptists or Lutherans sponsored registering people to vote (poor people that is).
Our planet is almost bursting with too many people. The Catholic church is against birth control, so the poor get poorer …The Pope meets with the Sisters of Charity who are fighting providing access to birth control not for the sisters themselves, but for possibly non Catholic EMPLOYEES. Drives me nuts!
I believe in God, but I aint much on organized religion. I just think its another power system that is about perpetuating itself. Take a stroll through the Vatican Museum — Its like the comic Richie Rich’s mansion with rooms piled with booty from various vanquished foes, many during the Crusades. “It just don feel right… “
satby
@maurinsky: Congrats to you both!
Elie
I do have to add however that I think that the Pope stepped on his own powerful message to lower the cynicism of our times. Its hard not to view these two meetings cynically. And after all the effort of this trip! Stupid IMHO. The unavoidable question is “what does he really support and advocate”? Better for him not to put out too much of an open mind approach if he is just going to walk it all back in a couple of days, no? All it does for we religious cynics is confirm that we suspected it was just a superficial marketing strategy to increase membership for a religion that has lost a lot of followers in recent years due to being unable to stand up for real things that people care about. What a bad decision! At a time that we see nothing but Donald Trump and fantasy theatrics rather than solutions from our political system!
Betty Cracker
@Elie: Agreed. I’m not and have never been a Catholic, but I had a generally favorable opinion of Pope Francis because he seems like a breath of fresh air after his dour, judgmental predecessors. I didn’t expect him to advocate for gay marriage and be okay with women taking birth control, etc., but he didn’t have to elevate that smarmy, grifting little cockroach in Kentucky as if she were some kind of religious martyr, which she’s not. I have less respect for this pope today than I had yesterday, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Elie
@Betty Cracker:
Charles Pierce wrote a pretty scathing piece today and I agree with him. Its hard to understand how this happened from a Pope who had been pretty deft in managing his message. And he gave it up for such a low ball move — Jeez!
..wow! A whole previously successful trip traded off for bullshit. He might as well stayed home in Rome and got a foot massage