In case there was any question whether Minister Louis Farrakhan feels that men and women are equal, he had some interesting things to say about Beyonce, Rihanna, and women’s sexuality in general on a recent interview on “Hip Hop Since 1987″:
“Proclaiming that “when you strip a woman down, a man becomes a dog,” … Jay Z is a good man, Jay Z is a good manager, but now, your woman is on display,” he said. “Do you want men looking at your woman, being tempted by your woman, to make advances at your woman?”… “To my brother Jay-Z: As much as I love and admire you, I want to see my sister, Beyonce, beautifully covered… You’re responsible.”
That’s right, men. It’s up to you keep your ladies in check!
Team Blackness also discussed Viola Davis’s historic Emmy win and speech and a little trash talk around football.
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Mike J
He should run for the Republican nomination.
Chris
Asshole.
Paul in KY
That’s fairly standard Middle-Eastern Islam, IMO.
Emma
I don’t watch much TV, and what I watch isn’t the sort of material that would win Emmys. So when I heard about Ms. Davis’ win, the first thing that crossed my mind was “what do you mean a black woman hadn’t won before? There are some great actresses out there.”
Sigh. Humbling, to find oneself so stupidly unaware.
shell
Yup, and its always a womans fault if a man feels sexual aggression towards them. Ladies, they just cant help themselves, poor things. So cover up already!
ET
Keep your women in check – because why should men bother keeping themselves in check.
Belafon
I suspect there would be two rather quick openings for the position of spouse if Jay Z tried to tell Beyonce to cover up. I wonder if Beyonce would break out into “To the Left”.
Archon
I’ve heard many well known Republicans say things more inflammatory about Beyoncé on a similar subject.
WereBear
And I’m fairly standard freakin’ tired of hearing it in the 21st Century.
Yatsuno
@WereBear: Many Islamic women agree with you. Many are comfortable with the hijab and the veil. People are complicated things.
sharl
Is that dude still big on numerology?* He’s the reason that the National Park Service no long (publicly) conducts and releases attendance estimates for events held on Federally owned lands. It was the 1995 Million Man March in Washington, DC; Farrakhan claimed they had reached a million attendees even before the event started (I was listening to local radio following the proceedings at the time).
I don’t know how much of it was the numerology belief, and how much was event marketing (maybe both), but he was sure big on “One Million” (yeah, go ahead, say that in the Dr. Evil voice, whatev…).
I don’t have a belief one way or the other regarding the utility of NPS doing crowd counting – it seems like a potentially valuable activity to me, but I really haven’t researched it. But anyhoo, there’s the weird history behind why NPS doesn’t do that anymore, at least not publicly.
*{source; the paragraph is a bit beyond the half-way point}
trollhattan
Well, now that the good Minister has piped up on the subject, how about Jethro or whatever the goober serving as Kim Davis’ husband #2&4 is named, put a bag over her beautiful brain anytime she’s in public. Thank you.
Betty Cracker
Fuck Farrakhan and his medieval nonsense.
Mike in NC
Remember John Ashcroft and his covering up statues in the DOJ building? Yet another embarrassment that Dubya foisted on the country.
Kropadope
@Yatsuno:
I’m comfortable with the hijab and veil, as long as the women wearing them are doing so by their own choice.
Brachiator
@Yatsuno:
Yep. I recently listened to a BBC documentary in which Muslim women spoke about the hijab. I learned how limited some of my perceptions and understanding of the issue was. The documentary didn’t change my views about compulsory wearing of the hijab or the stupidity of men, but I hearing Muslim women speak for themselves was chastening, and eye opening.
Belafon
@Kropadope: A few years ago, a woman at the college I was attending had her phone wedged inside her hijab against her ear, talking hands free. It’s still a great memory.
Gene108
I will take Farrakhan’s statement a step further. Both men and women need to cover up.
We are in the 21st century but are wearing clothes – pants, shirts, sweaters, etc – like it is the 20th century.
If movies have taught us anything we should all be wearing unisex shiny silver onesies. The fact we stick to out dated clothing modalities makes us all shameful whores.
Chris
@Kropadope:
Yeah, this. I’ve got no problem with the Muslim headscarf, I’ve had a couple of friends who wore them by choice even on the liberated American East Coast.
But that doesn’t have much to do with what’s going on here. Here, we’ve got a busybody who not only is telling women what he thinks they should wear, but doubles down on the condescension by not even having the courtesy to tell them that himself, instead finding the closest man in their lives and telling him he needs to control his women. (And, as if that wasn’t creepy enough, he basically says out loud for everyone to hear that he gets off on seeing their uncovered bodies).
Kropadope
@Chris: Hey, religious reactionaries gotta react.
Brachiator
From an amazing BBC online story about hijab, this on compulsory hijab.
This is the worst, and the aspect that many people think about and react to. But there is more, especially when it comes to Muslim women who voluntarily embrace the hijab. Take a look.
“My hijab and me”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/my-hijab-and-me
Chris
@Kropadope:
Yeah, I suppose it’s like blaming a dog for licking his balls.
rikyrah
They are Black MUSLIMS.
Anyone seen Black Muslim women and how they dress?
Why should the Minister change his mind just because a woman is famous?
Frankensteinbeck
@ET:
The evasion of responsibility is as demented as the desire to control and the desire to degrade and shame.
kyle
@Brachiator: There was a great exchange between Bill Maher, Andrew Sullivan, and David Petraeus on this topic. Maher and Sullivan were predictably anti-burka. Petraeus then asked them if they had ever spoken to a woman in a burka. Neither had. And then Petraeus educated them (and me) about what you just mentioned: some Muslim women freely choose to wear a burka.
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
Truthfully? I have no idea if I’ve seen how Black Muslim women dress. I can’t tell their religion by looking, unless they really are wearing something extreme. Every black woman I’ve ever met could be Muslim. I wouldn’t know. Well, except the one I’ve discussed religion with, and she was secularly ex-Christian.
Chris
@rikyrah:
Who? Jay-Z? Beyonce? Rihanna?
In my experience, any way they want.
What does their fame have to do with anything? This would be just as inappropriate if he’d said it about some anonymous night shift worker at Seven Eleven.
the Conster
So fucking tired of medieval bullshit and men telling women what to do – hey Farrakhan and especially all you white men – you men fucked everything up. Fix everything you broke, and until then STFU and leave women alone.
Chris
@kyle:
Of course.
aarrgghh
shorter farrakhan: “don’t blame me for what happens if you ever leave me alone with your wife.”
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: Jay-Z and Beyonce are Muslims?
the Conster
@Chris:
I worked with a woman (white middle class) who was a journalist in Afghanistan before 9/11, and was reporting from refugee camps. She had to ride with Afghans from place to place, and she said, “let me tell you something – I was really really glad I was wearing a burqa”.
trollhattan
@Gene108:
I’m envisioning something like this.
Timurid
Carson – Farrakhan 2016
Let’s light this candle!
trollhattan
O/T Somehow, Shep Smith remains alive and on the payroll.
Betty Cracker
As for women who freely choose to wear burkas, etc., I look at it the same way I view feminists who shave their legs and pits, pluck their eyebrows and wear makeup (some of which I do myself) — it’s their choice and none of my business, but don’t try to tell me it has nothing to do with the patriarchy.
Right to Rise
Trump supporter Ann Coulter trashes Catholics, will Trump disown said support? What does this portend for the Florida Primaries?
Catholics are important swing voters in the Great Lakes States, and Trump now has the support of an anti-Catholic bigot.
Will he disown Coulter’s support?
Brachiator
@Right to Rise:
More important, will Trump call Coulter an ugly skank?
Will Jeb! jump up to defend politically outrageous ugly skanks? Like his mother, for example?
mclaren
Nothing says “American manhood” like a girlfriend in a burqa.
The guy’s drunk. He needs to go home and sleep it off.
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: Oh, yeah, cuz I bet your boy Bush loooooves Pope Francis.
Right to Rise
@Kropadope:
Jeb Bush is a faithful, practicing Catholic in good standing.
Trump as the support of anti-Catholic bigots. This could bit Trump in the ass.
And Ann Coulter is done now as a mainstream conservative commentator.
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: Trump has the support of anti-everything-not-straight-white-male-Christian bigots. You know what? So will Bush, ultimately, if he wins the nomination.
ETA: And Coulter was done years ago.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Frankensteinbeck:
I think you’re misunderstanding rikyrah’s point here — Black Muslim is what you call someone who is part of the religion Nation of Islam, like you call a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints a Mormon. Not every black person who is a Muslim is a Black Muslim.
And the Nation of Islam is a very distinct (and very American) sect that has about as much to do with mainstream Islam as LDS does with mainstream Christianity.
schrodinger's cat
@kyle: It is also a sign of piety. My Pakistani friend’s mom started wearing a head scarf much later in life, after she retired, when she got into religion. My friend doesn’t wear a head scarf.
In India where the Islamic influences have been the greatest, i.e, northern India, like say Rajasthan, many Hindus observe purdah (curtain) which means women cover their head and/or face in public.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
So Jeb accepts the Pope’s teaching that climate change is a moral issue that must be addressed immediately, and that we must accept refugees from Syria as our Christian duty?
Good luck selling that one. Jeb is a cafeteria Catholic — he only listens to the Pope when it’s convenient for Jeb.
Chris
@Right to Rise:
It’s your party and all that, but didn’t McCain encounter a similar bump in the road when one of the preachers who endorsed him turned out to be a raging anti-Catholic bigot (I forget his name), only for it to turn out to be a big nothingburger?
Hey, maybe it will be the thing that sinks Donny. Wait and see. I won’t hold my breath, though.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Islam is extremely diverse, one would be hard put to describe what is mainstream Islam. How do you describe it?
Dmbeaster
@shell: Actually, he is also saying its also the fault of the woman’s male “controller” for not using his control to make her cover up. Really screwball.
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m a Catholic, and I can tell you that refugee policy and environmental policy are matters of what is called prudential judgement. People can disagree with the Pope and be Catholics in good standing on these matters.
Abortion is one of the Five Non-Negotiables.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I thought that the old mainline Nation of Islam normalized decades ago. Farrakhan’s remnant is very small and verges on the nutty. For example, I think that Farrakhan encourages his flock to also embrace Scientology.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Wikipedia on Nation of Islam:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam
To put it into a more familiar perspective, Louis Farrakhan is basically in the same position as David Miscaivage is in Scientology — he’s the heir to the guy who invented the religion 80 years ago. NOI has very little to do with actual Islam, as Malcolm X discovered when he broke away from them and converted to mainstream Islam.
schrodinger's cat
@Betty Cracker: I blame peer pressure more than patriarchy.
mikeinIreland
why do I get bombarded with dating older Russian women ads on this friggin’ site? lol Literally every ad I see at times is covered with older Russian women.
I can’t read balloon juice around my wife in fear she’ll glance over, see all the ads, and think i’m trying to have an affair!
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: Good to hear. 3 cheers for Shep Smith.
Brachiator
@Right to Rise:
I thought this was a musical group. Like One Direction.
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: What about those of us who don’t approve of abortion in principle, but support it as public policy because it’s the only rational way to go?
trollhattan
@mikeinIreland:
In America it’s hawt Asian ladies with guns. Until it changes to Glenn Beck and the Amazing Device You Practically Have to See to Believe!!! [Practically, but not actually so send money today….]
Mike J
@mikeinIreland: Looking for borscht in all the wrong places.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
In other words, you’re a cafeteria Catholic — you pick and choose which of the Pope’s teachings you’re going to follow. And you *dare* to lecture more liberal Catholics about their focus on social justice over your pet obsessions?
Read up on the sheep and the goats and take a moment to reflect on what path you’re currently following, goat boy.
Kropadope
@trollhattan: I get Jeeps and Jesus T-shirts.
Renie
@Right to Rise: and this is, of course, great for JEB. blah blah blah
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Only the Right issues count. Emphasis on the capital R.
Right to Rise
Let’s get back to Trump’s support from anti-Catholic bigot Ann Coulter.
And, remember, she was replying to one of the most respected conservative Catholics of our time–David Limbaugh.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
Yeah, about that lay authority you just quoted:
Fascinating that you take the word of a Protestant convert over that of the anointed Pope. Let me guess, you’re not a cradle Catholic either, are you?
Kropadope
@Right to Rise:
Does that help?
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m not just a cradle Catholic, I’m full-blown Irish.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise:
That list is bullshit and clearly not from the Catholic Church. Tellingly, it’s written by a former Southern Baptist who falls prey To the random Capitalization trap so-Beloved By wingNuts..
Abortion, Euthanasia, Embryonic stem cell research, cloning, and so-called homosexual “marriage”
Where’s your death penalty and birth control amongst that horrid “so-called homosexual ‘marriage’ and cloning” (Flash quiz: Who said this? “Who am I to judge?.”)
What a maroon.
Renie
@Right to Rise: ugh, you are a disgrace to all Irish American catholics. Republican values are not even close to what Jesus teaches.
sharl
@Right to Rise:
TMI, man, TMI…
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
Uh-huh. And you believe the Gospel interpretations of lay converts over that of the Pope because … ?
Omnes Omnibus
@Right to Rise: Does Jeb?’s campaign know that you are not a citizen? Serious election law violation….
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m taking the word of the teaching of the Church, stretching back to the First Century.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Renie:
It’s like a weird inferiority complex. Oh, please, Southern Baptist convert, please tell me how I’ve been doing the religion I was baptized and confirmed in *all wrong* until you came along to straighten me out! All those priests and nuns who taught me over the years clearly knew less about Catholicism than you do three years after your conversion!
Renie
@Right to Rise: where in the Bible does it say this; provide chapter and verse and what version of the BIble you think it says this.
Right to Rise
@Renie:
That only works with fundie Protestants, son.
I’m not a member of Bill & Ted’s Excellent Bible Shack.
Brachiator
@Right to Rise:
So, you’re going to deliberately skip the Bible, which nowhere bans or prohibits abortion.
Oh, I so enjoy your foolishness.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
I think someone needs to look up the definition of “non-canonical” before he decides it’s part of Catholicism. Or is that another place where you know better than the Pope what’s canonical and what isn’t?
Right to Rise
BTW, respecting the creation, wanting a clean environment is not the same thing as embracing nutty global war–er “climate change” policies that will impoverish millions is not the same thing.
The Pope means well but is just plain out of his depth.
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
The Church has always been against abortion. To assert otherwise is ridiculous and you know it. One thing that made the early Church stand out from paganism is that it did not practice abortion or infanticide (the latter of which was practiced particularly against young girls, how about that for a “war on women”?)
Roger Moore
@schrodinger’s cat:
Peer pressure is an enforcement mechanism, but it isn’t responsible for the rules that are being enforced.
Mike in NC
JEB! has publicly stated that the pope should keep his mouth shut on matters not directly related to religion, as have other occupants of the klown kar.
So when the pope addresses Congress, it’s possible he gets heckled by some of the wingnuts for stepping out of line.
Right to Rise
BTW, Mnemosyne,if I were a fundie convert I would have accused you of not being a Catholic by now, or demand that you quit the Church, not merely saying you’re mistaken.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise:
Aaaaand, there it is, folks.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
Look up “quickening” as it refers to abortion and come back to tell us that the Church had always been 100 percent against abortion as currently practiced.
Hint: the whole “moment of conception” idea is less than 100 years old. Your lack of knowledge about the history of your own religion is embarrassing, frankly.
Renie
@Right to Rise: I happen to be an Irish Catholic who went to 12 years of Catholic school so don’t patronize me a$$hole. The Didache are COMMENTARIES of the Bible not the Bible.
Obviously you can’t quote where Jesus preaches any of the stupid crap the Republicans follow so, like most RWNJ, you go for personal attacks on the person asking you.
And, as all nut cases, you think you know more than the Pope does.
Eric U.
@Chris: funny thought, Coulter sinks trump. He has said many things that would offend a typical republican if Obama had said the same thing, and that hasn’t hurt his support. So whatever Coulter says is not going to do anything to Trump’s numbers. I suspect that all these things are going to limit his eventual support, but all he needs to get is 50+1, and then all the republicans are going to support him. I’m sure the Catholic republicans will get over it.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@trollhattan:
RtR doesn’t seem to realize that when people tell him he’s “more Catholic than the Pope,” it’s an insult, not a compliment.
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
That line is complete horseshit and was first used by Fred Clark of all people (talk about citing ex-fundie Evangelicals!)
I know Aquinas talked about “quickening” but he was engaging in philosophical explanation not speaking in the name of the Magisterium. Abortion has always been a sin.
Right to Rise
@Renie:
No shit, sherlock, but it’s a part of the authoritative teaching of the Church.
You went to Catholic school and you’re going all sola scriptura? Lol. Obviously it didn’t take.
As a matter of historical record the Catholic Church has always been against infanticide and abortion.
Yeah, they were against a Roman father’s “right to choose” to abandon their baby girl in the wilderness because she wasn’t “really” a person yet. This might sound familiar.
burnspbesq
@Right to Rise:
Bullshit. An encyclical is the paradigm case of the Pope speaking ex cathedra on a matter of faith. The encyclical in which His Holiness reminds us that as Catholics, we are called by God to be responsible stewards of His Creation is no exception. And in case you’ve forgotten, the Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of faith. So get with the program, asshole.
P.S. You can accept the Church’s teaching on abortion and also understand that this is America, we have this thing called the First Amendment, and the very same First Amendment that protects our right to practice our faith denies us the right to shove our beliefs down the throats of those who don’t share them.
Surreal American
@Right to Rise:
Four years ago, you said you were atheist. Or was that another dipshit troll.
Renie
@Right to Rise: Again you go for personal attacks when you can’t proof your points. Since you can’t tell us where the BIble backs up what you claim, you are a fake. You can’t even troll well.
Right to Rise
@burnspbesq:
LOL you have no idea what ex cathedra is, do you? It’s only been used for sure like twice, both times having something to do with Mary IIRC. Ask Mnemosyne. It does not mean “whenever the Pope opens his mouth or uses his pen”.
If the latter were the case Catholics would still be endorsing absolute monarchy!
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
While you’re looking up “quickening,” don’t forget to look up the related concept of “ensoulment.” Though I’m sure you won’t bother, since you’re more interested in what Southern Baptist converts have to say than the actual historical record.
burnspbesq
@Right to Rise:
How did you ever get confirmed with that many holes in your understanding of our faith?
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
And you’re more likely to use a line from Fred fucking Clark than the Didache! LOL really Fred Clark and you accuse me of listening to ex-fundie Protestants with emotional baggage?
Right to Rise
I mean I don’t agree with the Church on birth control (at least not on condoms) so hang me with that if you want but the matter of historical record there is not nearly as iron-clad as “abortion is murder”.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise:
In order to save the life of the mother? No, that iron cladding falls away pronto.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
Uh, it’s been used more than twice. Though I’m glad to see that you support the ordination of women. After all, if JPII was not speaking ex cathedra when he said that, it clearly means it’s not doctrine, right?
And since none of the pronouncements against abortion have been said ex cathedra, your argument falls apart. Either both abortion and climate change are official teachings of the Church that faithful Catholics must obey, or neither one is, and Catholics are free to follow their consciences.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
kyle
@Betty Cracker: Completely true. But I have 0 standing to judge/criticize a Muslim woman who wears a burka, because (like Maher and Sullivan) I have had never had any interaction with a woman wearing a burka.
Emma
@Right to Rise: You’ve never heard of Thomas Aquinas and ensoulment, have you? Or the “lesser crime” before the foetus has life?
I recommend a book on Medieval Penances.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Right to Rise:
Define “abortion.” The current theological concept that life begins when sperm meets egg would have been completely nonsensical in 100 AD. That’s why understanding the concepts of ensoulment and quickening are crucial to understanding that text.
And, no, I don’t count on Fred Clark for my understanding of Catholic doctrine and dogma, but I do count on him to explain the weird folk beliefs evangelical Protestants bring with them when they convert, especially when those converts start insisting that their imported beliefs override what Fr. Kelly and Fr. Job taught me.
Betty Cracker
@Right to Rise: Then quit trying to influence our election, Foreigner.
@kyle: I don’t understand that logic. As far as I know, I’ve never interacted with a card-carrying member of the Flat Earth Society, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking they’re wrong.
@Roger Moore: Word.
PurpleGirl
@shell: It wouldn’t matter if women covered up; it seems that just the mere presence of women near a man is enough to drive them insane with lust. How else do you explain that women in chadors or burkas are still raped. Men simply have no self-restraint — they are the ones who need to be locked away from society.
PurpleGirl
@rikyrah: I worked with young woman who was raised in England and after her family moved to the US she met a young man, married him and converted to Islam. She wore a Hijab and Moroccan styled over dresses. She was Muslim, Islamic, whatever, but she was not a Black Muslim follower of Louis Farrakhan. She was Muslim, period, no modification to name of her religion.
kyle
@Betty Cracker: I would definitely speak out against a Flat Earther (or any other Republican), because I know enough about the subject to know that they are wrong.
I don’t know nearly enough about the topic to argue against the lived experience of a woman who chooses to wear a burka. Of course, per your point, I think that the word “chooses” is doing a lot of work in the previous sentence, because patriarchy.
Roger Moore
@PurpleGirl:
Testosterone is a hell of a drug.
Gravenstone
@Right to Rise: You are myriad and contain legions. Yada yada yada
Gravenstone
@Right to Rise: It heartens me to think it possible you’ve not reproduced. Your brand of stupid needs to die with you and not be passed down another generation.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@kyle:
In theory, wearing a hijab or even a burka shouldn’t mean more than wearing a cross or a Star of David. But in practice, it has absolutely been used as an instrument of control.
agorabum
@the Conster: someone saying they are really glad to wear a burqa generally means the men will rape, or at a minimum, grossly harass a women out of one.
After all, a woman out in public, especially one not covered, must be a whore (and many afghan villages consider being out grounds for a killing)
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I think there are two differences:
1) A cross or Star of David is a small symbol that doesn’t have much practical effect on your daily activities, while a hijab is more involved, and a burka is obviously a serious impediment to mobility.
2) A cross or Star of David is a gender-neutral sign of belonging to a religion. A hijab or burka is a gender-specific attempt to define the way a woman is supposed to present herself. As such, it’s a means of social control in a way that a cross or Star of David (outside a Nazi context, at least) isn’t. Of course, you could say the same thing about a wimple, prairie dress, or any of the other enforced modesty garments that various religions have forced women to wear.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Roger Moore:
There are also gender-specific ways that Muslim men are supposed to signal their membership, so I don’t know that I buy that wearing a headscarf is inherently misogynistic. But it also wasn’t that long ago that all Catholic women were expected to cover their heads before entering a church, so I guess I don’t see hijab wearers as being that far behind the times.
I’m just not comfortable with people telling women that they *have* to wear or not wear X or Y. It can be sexist to require it, but it can also be sexist to require its removal (because women can’t make that decision for themselves, amirite?)
So I’d rather lean towards empowering women to freely wear what they want without coercion than lecture them about how what they’re wearing is proof that the religion they follow is bad.
Applejinx
Girlfriend in a burqa, I know, I know
It’s serious
Girlfriend in a burqa, I know, I know
It’s really serious
There are times that I could
have ogled her
But you know I would hate
to get a boner
No, I don’t want to see her…
The one thing Farrakhan has right is this: damn right lots of men lose their minds and turn into horny dogs when they see exceptionally attractive women.
The problem is, that is entirely their responsibility. We lose our minds when seeing cash money too, but nobody has a problem with flashing that around, and anyone getting physical and taking the money by force is considered wrong and NOT entitled to the money just because they saw it.
Women don’t really get that degree of consideration. There’s this societal expectation that if female desirableness is flaunted, it’s open season, and that’s some bullshit and uncivilized.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
You mean like not shaving beards? Headscarves are one thing — an inconvenience at worst. But how is not shaving a beard in the same neighborhood as being forced to scuttle around under a drop cloth — erased from view in effect?
I get the reluctance to concede any point made by hypocritical bigots who are only concerned with women’s rights when they can use it to oppress a minority religion. But there’s a point where that reluctance can become apologetics for inexcusable misogyny.
Patricia Kayden
@sharl: Wow. What a lot of jibber jabber. Farrakhan is one strange dude. But I kind of agree with him that there was close to one million people at that march. Guess that doesn’t matter anyways.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Learning Arabic to study the Koran in Arabic would be pretty basic, actually. Not a big feature of NoI, not historically, and not today from what I can tell. (NoI isn’t huge here but it is active.)
Another Holocene Human
@Right to Rise:
Fuck you, you fucking troll.
I’ve proven today my grasp of scripture has really slipped. However, re: refugees, lemme Google this for you:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ (Matthew 25:31–36),
And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ (Matthew 25:40–43)
So what was that about refugees again? You’re not arguing with the Pope. You’re arguing with Jesus. Remember, in Catholicism, Jesus is the landlord; the Pope is just a house sitter. Time for you to get right with the big man.
You’re welcome.
Another Holocene Human
@Right to Rise: emphasis on the blown, as in, your wad
If abortion was the be all and end all (Jesus is oddly silent on this most deadly of sins, weird), then why did the priests when I was growing up equivocate and lie about the Catholic position on abortion, specifically medically necessary induced abortions? Wouldn’t they have just stated it loud and proud like they did the idiotic Catholic teaching on lying. (Shorter: lie never, not even to save a human life. I don’t think that’s what Jesus had in mind. He made commentaries that mirror where the Rabbinate was going at the time.)
Hm, if RtR was really a cradle Catholic he would know that lying for JEBush is a big fat SIN.
sharl
@Patricia Kayden: While I’m more with the NPS on the crowd numbers, I completely understood why Farrakhan and other supporters of the Million Man March were so invested in a heavy turn out. While the crack epidemic had been over for several years by 1995, urban AA communities had been devastated, and a whole lot of black men had been locked up or left unemployed or underemployed in their communities. Adding to the misery were politicians, including Dems at both local (e.g., O’Malley) and Federal (Clintons, Biden) level who used language one would expect more from pest control professionals than from responsible leaders dealing with troubled human communities, and some rather onerous laws and practices were enacted accordingly; those Dems now have some ‘splainin’ to do IMO. And the (white) media’s coverage was not only superficial, but hostile and highly counterproductive.*
The MMM was a major effort to recover from that, and even the lower crowd estimates were pretty impressive IMO. In any event, I don’t think it was important what us white folks thought about the crowd count, or any other incidental matters regarding that event. It was most important that a significant number of black folk find inspiration and hope in that event, and at least from my outsider perspective, it seemed like a success on that score.
*From that last (May 1999 Salon) link:
Paul in KY
@WereBear: Me too, but for a ‘conservative’ muslim this is ‘dog bites man’. It would be a story if he repudiated that, IMO.
Paul in KY
@Gene108: Good point. Our dress is certainly not as futuristic as I thought it would be when I was back in late 1960s.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: We have an Islamic gentleman where I work who has the long beard. He also wears a round hat too.
Jado
Is it wrong for me to want Jay-Z to revel in his wife’s freedom and power to dress anyway she wants, deal harshly with scumbag men who think that a little skin display is an invitation, and then (hopefully) still choose him when they get home after a long day?
That sounds like the ideal bit of schadenfreude I like to enjoy as well. F all you other men – she chose me. And I am sure she will ask for my help dealing with you losers if and when she feels she needs it. Until then, be civil or suffer for your idiocy.
wenchacha
@Applejinx: Right. Real men are capable of self-control.