It looks like Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis doesn’t want to go back to jail after all.
Kim Davis, the embattled Kentucky county clerk, at the center of the dispute over gay marriage and religious liberty, appeared to back down from the threat of more jail time Monday, saying while she still refuses to authorize marriage licenses, she will not interfere with a deputy clerk who began providing them more than a week ago.
Davis returned to work Monday, her first time in the office since her high-profile release from the Carter County Detention Center last week. Emotional and flanked by her son, Nathan, Davis read a statement outside the courthouse, bemoaning that her deputy clerks have been caught in the middle of her case.
“If any of them feels that they must issue an unauthorized license to avoid being thrown in jail, I understand their tough choice and I will take no action against them,” she said. “However, any unauthorized license they issue will not have my name, my title or my authority on it. Instead, the license will state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order.”
Great. Fine. Wonderful. Now go away.
Hopefully you can still get a license when you’re on marriage number 5.
schrodinger's cat
Has she got her Fox show yet?
scav
Shorter “All the Freedomz and Autoriteeeez in the County belong to Meeeee!”
lowercase steve
“However, any unauthorized license they issue will not have my name, my title or my authority on it. Instead, the license will state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order.”
Can she legally do this? I mean heterosexual marriage licenses and homosexual marriage licenses will have different authorities stated on them? That sounds a lot like discrimination by a public official.
raven
@lowercase steve: Do what, nothing?
Richard Mayhew
Dumb question — are those licenses in her formulation seperate and inhernetly inequal as the dignity of a marriage is that it is recongized by the state as a special relationship. If heterosexual couples get marriage license A with the “regular” language on it, and homosexual couples get marriage license B with the “the Feds made me do it” language on it, that demeans the dignity of the homosexual couple. If all licenses came from the office with the “Feds made me do it” language, then they are equally assholish but equal.
Ruckus
@lowercase steve:
It would seem to me that a federal court order would have a bit more authority than an asshole county clerk in KY.
Benw
Hey, how come Kim gets the Republican Venality tag? She’s a Democrat!
Her work here is done. Time to hit the grifter gravy train. Keep those sweet, Godly greenbacks coming!
Edit: and what are the Oathkeepers doing? Are they still standing guard against the inevitable abuse of Kim by Obama’s Federal agents that tots would have happened without their bravery?
kindness
How soon before Davis starts firing clerks issuing licenses?
lowercase steve
@raven:
She is going to have the licenses for heterosexual marriage state they are issued under her authority as county clerk and have licenses for homosexual marriage say “issued persuant to a federal court order.”
Belafon
“If any of them feels that they must issue an unauthorized license to avoid being thrown in jail”
Because that’s what they were afraid of, obviously, rather than being fired by you for doing their job.
schrodinger's cat
Kim Davis has company, in India. The right wing BJP busy bodies banned the sale of meat in many of the states and cities they control for several days in deference to the wishes of tiny minority.
ETA: And by tiny I mean really tiny. Jains constitute less than 2% of India’s population.
The Other Bob
@Benw:
Let her show up at a Democratic Convention and watch how she is received.
D’s hold their bigots accountable. Its the R’s that welcome them.
Ruckus
@Richard Mayhew:
True but is the license legal? To me that’s the only point. Of course I’m not a gay person trying to get married in KY so my opinion is even worth less than normal.
gah
I think she’s safe on marriage 4. She doesn’t live in a place where it’s that easy to give up a cash cow.
Belafon
@kindness: If she wants to stay out of jail, she won’t. The judge is watching. He’s having the clerks file regular reports on what’s happening.
Eric U.
I hope some normal person steps up to take this job next election
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Benw: but those greenbacks are going to come overwhelmingly from Republicans
We should have some kind of pool or contest on the title of her book. Some variant on “Standing Strong” or “Jesus Was My Cellmate”
raven
@lowercase steve: got it
Ruckus
@lowercase steve:
Doesn’t sound actually legal. Wasn’t one of the points about civil rights that separate but equal really isn’t? I bet this lands her back in court pretty fast.
randy khan
@Ruckus: She’s saying the validity is doubtful, but she’s not exactly a reliable source. The consensus seems to be that there is no non-frivolous argument that the licenses are invalid, but that someone eventually will challenge one of the licenses issued without her name anyway. (Ironically, it could come in a divorce proceeding for one of those licenses.)
gratuitous
In regard to the “unauthorized license,” it sounds like Mrs. Davis is every bit as good a lawyer as she is a county clerk.
Cervantes
@lowercase steve:
@Richard Mayhew:
Is she really saying there will be two wordings?
gbear
Umm, how many court orders does she need?
Is she going to have her own little ‘bigot stamp’ made to mark licenses that she doesn’t authorize? Will they become civil rights mementos in the future?
What a jerk.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Rendering them invalid. Which she knows. Back to jail.
RSA
@gratuitous:
My thought, too. Not that I’m a lawyer. But I think she’s confusing her office with herself. These licenses are authorized as they should be, I’d guess, just not by her.
ETA: Congratulations may have a better handle on this than I do, though.
brendancalling
@schrodinger’s cat: heaRd a piece on NPR yesterday. Her fellow Morehead residents are not amused with Davis, say she portrays the community in a bad light.
Benw
@The Other Bob: Democrats are the real racists. Obama’s openly encouraging the killing of white cops with Blackhawk helicopters. I’m pretty sure I saw an email about that.
Mike J
@Eric U.:
They can campaign on how much money Davis has wasted in the courts.
lowercase steve
@Cervantes:
Unless she treats all licenses from here on as unauthorized (regardless of the couple involved) that appears to be what she is saying.
“any unauthorized license,’ makes its sound like she is choosing to authorize some but not other licenses.
lowercase steve
@randy khan:
It would basically have to be a party to the marriage…who else could possibly have standing in such a case?
azlib
I guess hanging on to her family business was more important than her values.
John M. Burt
@gbear: @gbear:
If I were in a position to do so, I would most certainly go with my wife to Kim’s office and ask for a marriage license, and specifically request that it not bear her signature.
Mike J
@lowercase steve:
What if Hobby Lobby decides not to give insurance to people they say aren’t legally married?
What if a judge refuses to perform the ceremony because the paperwork is incomplete?
MazeDancer
Davis’s “No license is legal without me” is just more set-up to prolong the “battle”. Which includes not just marriage equality but the idea that the Supreme Court doesn’t count. (Except when Scalia writes the opinion…) Moreover, asserting government can’t pass laws “against” the tenets of narrow, white, Christianist religion.
Maybe Huckabee thinks this will help him. Maybe Liberty Counsel is sending grift-by-mail. Maybe the Oathkeepers are hoping for action shots and their slice of the PR?grift. She gets cameras there every day. She tries to stretch out her fifteen minutes. Press helps her until the next shiny object.
Todays candidate for shine: Twitter abounds with a video of a disgusting young Trump supporter exercising her “cutesy blonde white girl” privilege by tearing up a Hispanic protesters sign.
It’s so strangely well-framed to follow the idiot and her look-alike pal, that wonder if she’s a set-up so Trump can renounce her. “Respect the 1st Amendment” or something. Objecting to tactics is a way to not support hatred while still hating.
Here’s vid at Crooks and Liars Have to wait for the act, takes a while for the little girls to do the deed.
Big ole hound
Just make her go away or at least stop the attention and news coverage.
eric
@lowercase steve: if an insurance company refuses payout to spouse, or homophobe relative challenges a gay spouse as a legatee because not legally married. so the challenge would not be limited to divorcing participant.
scav
I think she’s failing in her duty as only legitimate marriage authenticator by not personally visiting every married couple in Rowan County (certainly those with certificates bearing her not to be sullied name on a piece of paper) and investigating in depth if they aren’t meeting all of her stringent requirements for what a proper marriage is. I mean, imagine the spiritual cooties she’s picked up if one of those wives is not submitting gracefully enough or the husbands are energetically filling quivers, let alone quivering in the wrong spouse!
Ryan
@schrodinger’s cat: She doesn’t have the legs for Fox.
shortstop
Ms. Davis has another problem. Kentucky law requires that 1) every marriage license bear the name of the county clerk issuing it (although it can be signed by either the clerk or a deputy clerk) and 2) forms be otherwise uniform from county to county. If she really is creating her own alternative licenses, she’s now run afoul of state law.
schrodinger's cat
@Ryan: May be a radio show then?
Sparky
She should be fired since she is not doing her job!
Benw
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “Faith, Unbroken”
with a dedication to “my spiritual forefathers, Jesus and MLK Jr.”
scav
She better be investigating each and every marriage (certainly those where her personal signature of divine authority) in Rowen county to verify that everyone is living up to her stringent xian values. I mean, imagine the spiritual cooties her printed collection of letters is picking up if some wives aren’t being submissive gracefully enough or husbands not energetically filling quivers or worse! energetically quivering in the wrong (that is to say their future) wives!
Mike J
@Big ole hound:
You think bigots go away when you stop standing up to them?
greennotGreen
Do you think we can Santorum Kim Davis? Like always writing “Kim Davis, asshole,” or “Kim Davis, serial adulterer”? She want to make her mark, but we can influence what that mark looks like.
Ruckus
@shortstop:
Well it is pretty obvious that she isn’t the sharpest tool in the box.
@lowercase steve:
Well if it truly is a civil rights issue then wouldn’t the DOJ have standing? And as shortstop pointed out maybe the state of KY?
shortstop
@scav: We actually have a perfect analogy illustrating that Kimmie’s actions are not motivated by her professed parameters of faith. Let’s say we take her at her word that she was “saved” four years ago and that her “sin” of multiple marriages was then “washed away.” She’s still been recently issuing licenses for second, third, etc. marriages to people who divorced for reasons other than the two explicitly permitted in the NT: a spouse’s infidelity or abandonment by a spouse who disbelieves in the divinity of Jesus.
Asked by a canny reporter how she could help people gravely sin this way–Jesus himself said remarriage in circumstances other than a spouse’s infidelity is adultery–Ms. Davis replied, “That’s between them and god.” By her own “biblical” standards, she fails miserably.
ploeg
@CONGRATULATIONS!: One must recognize that Kim Davis has now made a concession (at least in her mind) in an attempt to avoid jail without having to issue a valid marriage license. So it is now established that Kim Davis doesn’t want to go back to jail, and if further concessions are required, the concessions will most likely be made. And if it comes to her deputies signing the licenses in question so that Kim Davis doesn’t have to sign them, that’s all that the law requires.
shortstop
@Ruckus: No one ever mistook her for an Einstein. What really interests me is her lawyer. Staver’s either pathologically incompetent or he doesn’t mind compromising his professional reputation by coming up with all these ridiculous hail marys.*
*not a term an apostolic Christian would ever use ;)
celticdragonchick
@Ruckus:
Definitely a couple pseudopheds short of a batch of crystal meth, this being eastern Kentucky.
scav
@shortstop: Funny how loving someone of the same sax is somehow not between one and one’s god. Little Kim must only be uniquely channelling the voice and strong enforcing arm of god and the state on certain whimsical frequencies.
Ruckus
@shortstop:
Not trying to be too much of an asshole myself but isn’t “biblical standards” pretty much what ever one’s interpretation is? And is another reason why there are so many different sects of christians, the differing interpretations and changes of the book over the centuries?
Brachiator
@greennotGreen:
Davis is not that important, and the story is not that important. She is going away. She has lost whatever cause she thought she was upholding; she just doesn’t realize it yet. Best to just let her fade away.
shortstop
@Ruckus: Right, that’s why I’m only calling her on what she professes to be her own standards relating to her issuance of licenses.
Ruckus
@shortstop:
You used the words professional reputation in regards to her lawyer? I think that ship sailed long ago. Very long ago.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@schrodinger’s cat:
I was thinking that the next step would be a radio show. She’ll have a buttload of listeners ready to tune in, right from the word go.
Punchy
Is she not going to sign BOTH hetero- and homo-sexual licenses? Or just the latter? If so, that seems a bit Seperate but Equal.
She’s technically not “interferring” with the issuances, but she’s intentionally and purposefully clouding the validity of the documents. I wonder if Judge Bunning cares about this distinction.
Ruckus
@celticdragonchick:
@scav:
I wonder how possible it might be that both of you are correct at the same time?
eric
@greennotGreen: She “Kimmed” her husband, meaning that she got him to adopt her child fathered by another man while married to yet a different man. Admittedly it wont happen as often as Santorum does, but that is befitting her lesser stature.
Elizabelle
Bernie Sanders appearance at Liberty Univ up on C-Span now.
ETA: very preliminary transcript attached, too, for those who can’t watch video (say, you’re gainfully employed or something) …
They will rebroadcast it tonight from 8-8:30 Eastern. Watch your times, cuz Carly (Fail Upwards) Fiorina gets the 8:30 p slot.
Just caught the very end, pretty much the prayer, and heard a few viewer comments after. Some saying Bernie is genuine; heard two people scoffing at how he will pay for his college proposal — the money has to come from somewhere. (No sh*t Sherlock.)
Moar education is needed. For our students, and for those who don’t realize how much money is getting sucked up by parasitic capitalism. Plus: automation and technology are hoovering up any job that can be automated and performed passably.
Lot of societal changes ahead. People got to get educated and feed their families, and that will require a new way at looking at economic/societal structure. It’s changing too fast (which is why the fundamentalism and fearmongering work; people can feel the bottom falling out).
Ruckus
@Punchy:
I wonder if Judge Bunning cares about this distinction.
Bet he does. Wasn’t his order that she issue licenses or at the very least not interfere with the issuing? Because this surly doesn’t fit in either of those categories.
shortstop
@Ruckus: It’d be a hoot if, down the road, she publicly accused him of piss-poor counsel. This woman is so self-absorbed that I could see her spitting on her pro bono representation if she thinks it would reanimate her argument.
ThresherK (GPad)
@lowercase steve: If so, I wonder if someone has suggested to Davis that the same sex licenses can be issued with a little pink star.
(Apologies if it’s too early for me to go Godwin on this whole sordid affair.)
catclub
@Mike J:
Naturally, it is part of white privilege, that even with different names, if we claim to be married, it is accepted.
I have no idea where a marriage certificate even is.
Elizabelle
This almost sounds like the second hoax du jour (after the second Obama Nobel story):
LA Times breaking news:
Why not, really?
shortstop
If she’s really issuing licenses reworded to omit her name and title (which would be a violation of Kentucky statute–see above), and she’s offering the alternative wording only to teh gheys, she’s going to get crosswise with Bunning again, too.
Mandalay
@schrodinger’s cat:
Wikipedia says it’s only 0.37% from the 2011 census. Either way the Jains would seem to be punching way above their weight.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@shortstop: Staver is the founder of Liberty Counsel, which is
They answer to the higher law. I’d love to see him face Rule 11 sanctions, but I’m petty like that.
@Punchy:
I expect that he will. Disclosure: I have not appeared before him, but did on occasion interact with him when he was an AUSA.
shortstop
@ThresherK (GPad): I believe 60 comments in shows appropriate restraint.
shortstop
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): yes, we all know about Liberty Counsel by now.
Full metal Wingnut
I still don’t like this. It smacks of “separate but equal” to me. Even if couples can still get their licenses, the CLERK, in her capacity as a government fucking official, is refusing to sign off on licenses.
So, straight couples get THE Clerk, gay couples get a deputy. I don’t like that or the message it sends.
In my opinion, you either sign off on licenses for ALL kinds of couples or you sign none at all.
gex
I actually view her and her attorney’s frequent references to the fact that they think the licenses are not valid as 1) taunting the federal judge that released her because licenses were going out and 2) a way to sic her rabid Christian supporters on the people who are holding these licenses.
I’m reminded of 2004 and a county in Georgia where a guy challenged the voter eligibility of every resident with a Hispanic name. I sort of suspect people married with Rowan County licenses to be hassled just like that.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Me too.
RandomMonster
So gays can’t get married when the Deputy Clerk is on vacation?
Also, she gets paid while not having to do 10% of the work (or whatever the percentage of gay vs straight marriage licenses being issued)?
Gindy51
Maybe the state should just get rid of the law that says the clerk has to sign the license. Give it to some other department or something, hit the whole lot of them in the revenue stream and let them blame it on that idiot Davis.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Gentle, Harm Nothing-ites Secretly Assholes
ThresherK (GPad)
@shortstop: Cool. My next idea was Davis’ office wanted to reward same sex marrieds in her county with a free tee shirt bearing the same star.
Oh, and wearing it would be mandatory.
Jay Noble
@shortstop: Yup. Those be STATE forms, and I’m guessing there’s law or two about altering them. And her name (but not signature) has to be on them. So the ones the clerks issued with “Rowan County” in the slot for her name, are legally questionable, which somebody will exploit on those unfortunate couples later on.
Back to jail by the end of the month.
gex
@randy khan: The federal judge has been saying all along that he is not certain the licenses are valid without her signature, presumably on the basis of the statute. It will be up to Kentucky to determine that and fix the law if necessary. But it isn’t just her saying that.
JPL
@Gindy51: Maybe the state should stop paying those who refuse to uphold the Constitution.
Chet
@greennotGreen: I wonder what George Tierney, Jr. of Greenville, South Carolina thinks of all this?
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
people can feel the bottom falling out
This is a very real issue. Because labor here is relatively expensive to some other countries automation replaces what can be replaced. Even the post office has machines to let you purchase postage and ship packages. (Was in one Sat. and no one, including me, was using the two machines which were right next to the windows) Leaf blowers do a lot more work with one operator than 2 people with rakes/brooms. One person can set up 2-4 computerized machine tools while an operator needs only to load/unload and push one button, not a difficult task. This has been going on for about 3 decades but the cost of automation is about the same as it was 3 decades ago and the cost of manual labor has stayed about the same, for it is in many cases replaceable. Look even at office work. But there are many more people at the bottom and always will be, than can be supported in the middle or the top. Not that we don’t need more and better education but that won’t chance the numbers and the structure of society.
catclub
@Brachiator:
The important thing is how few people there are like Davis, less than 6 months after the final ruling from the SC.
Compare with desegregation: 15 years of all deliberate speed, massive resistance and 40 years of rolling back desegregated schools via housing and other shenanigans.
Another Holocene Human
@shortstop: lol, as far as they’re concerned, it’s sports terminology
shortstop
When the Kentucky lege reconvenes in January and starts scrambling to legitimize Davis’s bigotry, maybe they can also get rid of the legality of Kentucky public officials hiring their relatives and setting their salary levels. (Why, yes, I do think it’s funny I typed that sentence in Chicago!)
Culture of Truth
Apparently some folks in KY are wondering if it’s worth taxpayer money to pay county clerks hand out forms. Thanks Kim Davis!
Omnes Omnibus
@gex: It is an issue of state law and a federal judge is not qualified to rule on it. I don’t see the judge as raising doubts about the validity of the licenses but rather as declining to offer any opinion on a matter outside his jurisdiction.
Jay C
@shortstop:
Leave aside, for the moment, the issue of whether or not a County Clerk, can, on their own hook, state definitively whether a legally-issued marriage license (or any other official document) is “authorized” or not – I’m guessing “no”, but IANAL – CAN a Clerk order said licenses (or whatever) to be annotated the way Kim Davis wants? Or is she just setting herself up for another legal slapdown? A slapdown which will probably be well-publicized, and milked for whatever pathetic attention her grifters can generate.
Also, I’m wondering how this whole sorry affair is going to play out when the KY Lege finally meets next January? My guess is they will come with with some change to their documentation rules re official signatures which will mollify the religious nuts, while still allowing marriage licenses to be issued without prejudice. IOW, a defeat for the wingnuts, which they will be able to spin into a “victory for religious liberty” or whatever else delusionary nonsense they prefer.
gex
@Gindy51: There is talk that the leg will make the necessary adjustments to the statute, some thought it would happen quickly and painlessly, when they are in session again.
shortstop
@Jay Noble: I’m thinking by Friday.
Watchman
Perhaps one should stop posting about her constantly.
gex
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh I agree. I imagine he didn’t say anything definitive because it is not his place. He was simply pointing out that there may be a question of the validity of the licenses that were going out, almost as though he was unwilling to say either way BECAUSE it is not his place to rule on that. It is a matter of KY law.
But the point remains, it isn’t just Kim and her side that questions the validity of these licenses.
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
At the end that’s change not chance the numbers.
shortstop
A lesbian couple received a license from a Rowan County deputy clerk this morning. I’d really like to see what it says!
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: People could start later, retire earlier, and work less hours. Parents could spend more time at home with babies. And workers could be paid more per hour to make this all possible. It would actually stimulate the economy, growing the pie for people like, you know, lawn guys.
It’s been done before. It works. It is hard for upper class tossers to fap to, however.
gex
@shortstop: And how fast some God botherer sues them for having an invalid license.
Zinsky
I’m sure she is currently negotiating a book deal with Regnery Publishing or some other right-wing paper mill. They also have to find a ghost writer for her, who can put together two sentences that actually make sense, since she clearly is not able to. Maybe Bill O’Reilly’s ghost writer is available…
Another Holocene Human
@shortstop:
We can only dream.
shortstop
@gex: on the other hand, both the state and county AGs say the licenses issued in Davis’s absence (last week and the Friday before) are valid. I guess we’ll see.
peach flavored shampoo
If this isn’t a “F#ck You” to the judge, I dont know what is. She’s basically saying that she wont prevent the transfer of a piece of paper across the desk, but she’ll refuse to authenticate and validate it. If she were selling cars, she’d be refusing the new owners the keys their purchased vehicle. If she were a pet store owner, she’d be giving up the collar without the dog.
This cannot be what the Judge envisioned when he allowed her out of jail. As an above commentor noted, gays must now plan on getting their necessary paperwork aligned with That One Guy’s vacation and sick schedule. Otherwise, they’d appear to be SOL.
JPL
@Elizabelle: Thanks for the link. I’m listening to it now.
Thoughtful Today
whaaaaaat?
Orange Is The New Tolerance?
gex
@shortstop: I was aware of that too. I’m not surprised that the attorneys on either side have opposing opinions. I won’t put any too much weight on any attorney’s opinion, as what matters will be a Kentucky judge’s ruling. So I still maintain that there are questions as to the validity of the licenses. I’m surprised this position is so controversial.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: Their assholishness is not so secret at all. They have gotten away with a lot of dickishness in Gujarat when Modi was the chief minister. So now they are trying their stunts in other places.
BTW the High Court has stayed the ban order.
Tommy
@peach flavored shampoo: I know sometimes it is hard to fire a government worker, but this whole saga does beg the question what does it take in KY?* I mean when a judge puts you in jail for not doing your job you’d think somebody in the government might say, “interesting, maybe she shouldn’t have this job!”
*She isn’t elected is she, don’t think I ever read she was?
schrodinger's cat
@Tommy: She is elected, so she can’t be fired. Either she resigns or has to be impeached.
Tommy
@schrodinger’s cat: Interesting. Thanks for the correction.
I’ve read more stories on this than I care to admit and not sure that was ever mentioned.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@scav:
I know this was due to autocorrect, but it cracked me up anyway. It’s okay for a baritone and an alto sax to get married, but Jeebus hates it when two baritones want to make beautiful music together!
It doesn’t hurt that I hear that “Benny Hill” sax music in my head every time I see Davis. What a frickin’ buffoon.
catclub
@gex:
Two possible results:
1) Court says they are valid. Even more court rulings in favor of same-sex marriage. Good.
2) Court rules invalid and sends Davis back to jail (for violating the terns of her release from contempt)
until all doubtful licenses are made valid.
FlyingToaster
@shortstop: Exactly. The licenses are valid per KY statute. She can’t change the form, but she can mandate that the Deputy Clerk with the “Marriage Licenses” sign put a sticky on it from her, with her weasel words.
She was denying all licenses, not merely ssm; two heterosexual couples were party to the Federal suit.
I expect her to keep her job to the end of this term, run for re-election, and lose. She’s not going to give up her 80K/yr and the GOP Kentucky Lege ain’t gonna impeach her.
boatboy_srq
(Emphasis added)
Shorter homophobic Xtian: WAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!11!1!
Tommy
@catclub: I know (1) I am coming into this conversation late in the game and (2) preaching to the choir ….. but this shouldn’t be this darn flipping complex.
gex
@catclub: Yep. This has to go to a Kentucky court for the next development, I think.
ETA: Actually the other option is KY’s legislature fixes the statute. I’ve seen talk about them actually wanting to do that as I mentioned above. That’s what I’m rooting for. I just want a result that deprives them of more martyrdom photo ops.
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus:
And there’s no actual controversy yet.
shortstop
@FlyingToaster:
Right, I know she hasn’t issued licenses to anyone for months, and who sued, but I was asking whether she’s now offering the novelty “edited” licenses to everyone or just to The Abominations.
Belafon
A professor was killed at Delta State University today: http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/09/14/active-shooter-delta-state-university-campus/72254712/
The school allows guns on campus.
FlyingToaster
@Tommy: Fortunately, it isn’t as complicated as Liberty Counsel is pretending.
The court ordered licenses to be issued. When the elected clerk refused, she was jailed for contempt and her deputies agreed to issue licenses.
They did so, and one deputy has been appointed the “marriage license” duty. Davis can’t fire him without running afoul of the court order, and she can’t alter the state’s forms, but she can mandate a sticky-note with her opinion.
The county DA and the state AG have both deemed the licenses valid. Someone suing will have to show standing, which is going to be really, really hard to do.
All smoke and fury, signifying nothing.
catclub
@shortstop:
Himalayan band name.
NotMax
If a government official requiring her underlings to follow and implement the dictates of her own religious interpretation rather than those required by law, or doing the same by proxy through the mechanism of creating and issuing state documents independently altered in accordance with her religious claims isn’t establishment of religion in direct violation of the 1st amendment and oath of office, am hard pressed to say what is.
FlyingToaster
@shortstop: Everyone. She wants the KY Lege to change the forms so her name & signature don’t appear. Which will happen next year.
Ruckus
@Another Holocene Human:
It has to change how we see work and careers in the US to change. The idea that one will work for 50 yrs and retire. Look how it’s changed that people expected to work for one company their entire careers. When I tell people that I have been employed or an employer for 50 plus yrs they are amazed. People don’t really expect to be working that long. But as a society we still expect that, especially of people at the bottom, who are now mostly expected to stay there. But how often do we talk about people who retire from the military or a government job after 30 yrs, with a pension? But I’m talking about actually not working for 50 yrs. About getting a better and longer education and starting work at 25, not 17, or earlier. About retiring with 30 yrs with a living amount from SS. Right now people like me are working into retirement age, taking jobs away from younger people. Not that we shouldn’t be allowed to continue, but that we have little other choice. And yes I’ve been told that I will have to work till the day I die. By an ex relative in the banking industry, who doesn’t expect or plan to.
Tommy
@Belafon: Yet again. As a kid of a college professor until I was seven or so and then spending many years on them as I got my education, they were always a place I felt as safe as anyplace but my home.
Guns on campus, come on. Really. If you need a gun on a college campus the college is doing something wrong. Very wrong!!!!!!!!
Tommy
@FlyingToaster: Good to hear, as I said coming late here to all this BS and trying to follow a lot of comments, many not saying the same thing (or even close). But I have to say:
Wait, wait, wait. I thought that comment was “snark.” That is true? WTF on like ten different levels. So can the lady, and I pay my power, water, and trash pick-up through my town, include a sticky-note on my bill saying use less water, or use more, you must smell. Shower more?
scav
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Let’s not get into woodwind on woodwind action . . . oboe.
01jack
Well a Federal judge can decide issues of state law, they do it all the time. That’s how our courts work.
I think there was some remark from the bench over the question of whether the licenses without her signature were valid, but I think the judge was just being properly hesitant to not rule on something that was not squarely before him.
But if an issue arises in a civil rights case as to whether a license was properly issued and that issue is briefed and argued, the judge can decide and apply Kentucky law. I mean, it isn’t like he is going to say, “Go ask a Kentucky state judge and then get back to me.”
Xecky Gilchrist
Such persecution! Even the early Christians were only thrown to the lions once.
NotMax
@scav
If you experience a tromboner for more than four hours…
/inner 12-year-old
Full metal Wingnut
@Omnes Omnibus: Supremacy Clause. Gay couples have a constitutional right to get a marriage license.
Read one of the SCOTUS cases on desegregation bussing. That was an extraordinary remedy for a pretty extraordinary rights violation. Federal judges have pretty broad power to craft remedies to protect/enforce constitutional rights.
So hypothetical: KY law says only The Clerk, not a deputy, can sign licenses. Davis is refusing to sign. Federal judge can deputize the deputies, so to speak, to sign licenses. Said order to remedy a constitutional violation has the force of federal law and supersedes state law in that narrow context.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@catclub:
Pedant alert:
That would be 2 different courts. A KY court will need to rule on validity, but the federal Judge Bunning would make any decision on contempt and its consequences.
Pedants must pedantify; I’m reasonably certain that was both implied in your comment and understood by everyone else.
scav
@NotMax: You’ll need a Tuba K-Y jelly . . . .
/waves back
Tommy
@Ruckus: Work history:
I had a paper route in the 70s when I was like 12. As soon as I turned 16 job, part time. Job in college. Grad school job.
Worked non-stop since then.
I don’t mind work, but worked since well I could work. Now don’t feel sorry for me, many good jobs. Jobs I liked that paid a fair amount of money if not a lot. Now work for myself.
I expect to work well into my 60s (I am 47). Not so depressed about it. Just figure it is the way it is.
Things are not what they were a generation or two before us.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
If that’s the inner 12 yr old what is the outer 12 yr old like? Serious people need to know.
Full metal Wingnut
@gex: I disagree with this interpretation. It’s not a matter of state law if federal constitutional rights are being trampled on, you crypto federalist society hacks
Elizabelle
@Belafon: Last time I followed a story in the Clarion-Ledger (of Jackson, MS), it was about a gun death too.
Self-inflicted. Suicide of the tea partying lawyer who got caught up in peripheral action on the Thad Cochran Senate race. Part of the “let’s sneak a camera into a nursing home and photograph Mrs. Cochran” scheme.
Story was full of people saying what a fine individual was that tea partying suiciding lawyer. Maybe so.
Mark Mayfield. Here’s a NY Mag article on the fallout. The Tea Party Suicide that has the Right Reeling.
Tommy
@Full metal Wingnut:
Not sure if you are the first person to say it but I will steal it and use it often ……
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
Me three.
Ruckus
@Tommy:
I’m at least a generation ahead of you.
As I said wanting to work, being fulfilled by work is not the problem, especially when that work pays decent. Having to work at shit jobs that pay shit money till the day you die is a real problem. One that way too many of our citizens have to deal with. In my own case I’m having to look to move to other countries or to rather undesirable places in this one to survive, as I won’t be able to work much longer with my health issues. I have a craft that paid/pays reasonable (not great!) or have worked in management but all my meager savings was wiped out in the great recession trying to survive in a new small retail business. I have SS for retirement. That gets me a room with a hot plate in a shitty location or possibly learning spanish as my new first language.
boatboy_srq
@Tommy:
That’s about what it amounts to. And yes, it stinks to high heaven. Then again, this is a typical Reichwing tactic: it’s right up there with poll taxes, grandfather clauses and the like, which were used with significant “success” until the CRA and are still having impacts today.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human: Galbraith, among others, was writing about this mowre than 50 years ago.
NorthLeft12
Wow! What a gracious and classy and unfortunately, completely predictable return by Ms. Davis. And here I was hoping for her to have used the weekend to reflect and own up to her bigotry and foolishness and promise to do the best job she could for all the citizens of her county and show everyone how a true Christian behaves.
Frankly, I would have been overjoyed if she had just gone quietly into her office and closed the door and let her clerks do their jobs. Yeah, as if.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Ruckus:
And there’s a huge difference in wear and tear on the body between manual work and desk work. My same-age (step)brother is probably going to need to retire at least 10 years before me because he’s been painting houses for 30 years. Luckily, we have enough resources in the family that he’s not going to have to live in poverty.
boatboy_srq
@FlyingToaster: BTW it’s not just a “sticky note”. It is, from her description, a defacement of the document because she won’t allow her precious Xtian name or signature on the licenses in question. I can’t help but think this will land her in more trouble than simply continuing to refuse to issue the licenses would have. Hopefully the next court appearance will go harder on Liberty Counsel than on her: if they weren’t egging her on, none of this would be happening.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Time for some investigative reporting–catch high level Jain activists and/or really holy guys cheating on the diet.
Hey, we did it in the US with Breatharians and they were just garden variety grifters.
eta: I suppose they are cheating on the diet because they are so keen to ban meat. If meat had no appeal to them they would not be in a lather to ban it.
Mark B.
@boatboy_srq: It seems a clear case of official malfeasance. You can’t more directly go against your duty as a public official than refusing to execute documents that are part of your duty to execute.
PurpleGirl
@scav: What Christian standards/values? She’s had 3 husbands, one of them she’s married twice. Her son is the issue of a relationship outside of marriage — not being fathered by one of her husbands. She’s done this ultra Christian act in answer to a death-bed wish by a MIL. I don’t know that we know which MIL it was, the mother of the current husband or another one. I guess this belief on my part makes me a bigot in some way but I think her stance comes from wanting to prove to someone that she’s really, truly reformed herself and made herself a Christian that would the MIL would approve of. She can dress herself as “plain” as she wants to but she’s as phony as they come.
scav
When she reaches the next phase of xian purity, she’ll be irredeemably tainted by seeing a same sax loving couple visibly eating pizza in a public commerical location where their tainted fingers may have touched dollars that have touched her own holy digits (with unique and absolute legal powers).
Omnes Omnibus
@Full metal Wingnut: I am aware of the Supremacy Clause. It has no bearing on my point. The federal judge can and did order her to issue licenses. He cannot make a decision about what constitutes a valid license in KY.
wuzzat
And has anyone asked the good people of Rowan County whether they’d rather have a special election to remove La Davis from office, or continue to pay her to not do her job? Tax season is over, so I’m sure her deputies can keep the office running until November.
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
You’re more right than you think! In opera an alto is rarely the heroine and a baritone never gets the girl. Operas with arias between two men are so unusual they gain the reputation of “the gay one” (such as pearl fishers).
I say this as someone who actually likes tear jerky Italian operas (except Butterfly, it should DIAF).
I’d love to see a classical music movie-musical be a thing (and there was an attempt lately with Baroque music that was pretty cool) but it needs to shed the past. The Early Modern Period was a long time ago. I think it’s no accident that Carmen is one of the most popular operas today and it was quite iconoclastic. Although wikipedia tells me Carmen is one of a number of leading French mezzos in the 19th century. Take that, Mozart.
Mike in NC
Rowan County sounds like a great place to resettle several thousand Syrian refugees, with Kim Davis responsible for all the paperwork. Start to earn that fat salary for once.
peach flavored shampoo
@scav: Tuba K-Y only for the pianist, right?
/works better when spoken
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: The top dogs don’t want to leave their jobs. But being at the top of the heap and in control is different.
When you work a physical job, it takes a fucking toll on your body. It’s like being an athlete, but working longer hours, a full season, less pay, and no glory. And if you’re not literally or metaphorically swinging a hammer, you might be in the RSI injury zone, immobilized at a call center station, or driving un-ergonomic equipment because the people that buy that shit don’t give a shit about you, or hunched over huffing toluene painting someone’s fucking nails. Yeah, fuck that shit too. Like how much contempt do you have to have for a fellow human being, and that includes the clients who pay the min and don’t tip, mixing up vats of witches brew that some poor immigrant is going to be taking right into their lungs for 10 hours a day. God, fuck everything. I hate it all.
Hal
I don’t get it. If these forms truly need Kim Davis’s signature to be valid, then she is in violation of the court order. This woman has terrible legal representation. She’d be better off with the ACLU.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy:
The point is that the Devil is a liar once again. NRA promised if you allowed guns on campus then a “good guy with a gun” could stop the bad guy with a gun, and Delta allowed guns and …
Ethan Schmidt is still dead.
But if guns weren’t allowed, then if somebody saw someone take a gun on campus or heard someone talking about bringing a gun to campus or saw something on social media, they could tell someone. And maybe prevent a tragedy.
Brachiator
@catclub: Even other clerks who worked under Davis were willing to issue marriage licenses. Whatever people believed privately, they were willing to respect the law. And part of this may be because people were ahead of the change in law; attitudes toward gay marriage had been shifting for some time.
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: I hear you, ruckus. You have a lot of company in that boat, and we, as a country, could do a lot better.
It’s dishonest for politicians and “thought leaders” to evade the issues, and place blame where it does not belong. I am glad to see a few step forward and think differently, even if we are told how “unrealistic” they are.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
More wear and tear yes. But why should someone have to work crappy jobs for longer just because they are in an office. Maybe the idea should be to make that wear and tear not as debilitating (OSHA anyone?) and that desk job a bit less crappy and to make them both not have to last forever just to eat. This is a real socialist concept I know. And while I’ve worked mostly wear and tear for those 50 plus years, I’m still in better shape that a lot my age.
@Another Holocene Human:
I wasn’t trying to belittle your comment with mine, just embellish. Should have acknowledged that in my comment.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: I like Galbraith.
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: ? I’ve enjoyed your contributions to this thread. It doesn’t hurt that I agree with your analysis. Great minds and all that.
Also, I feel like when the research on RSI’s really starting coming out, OSHA had already been well and truly neutered. Tell me I’m wrong.
SiubhanDuinne
@scav:
Oooh, getting all English horny.
Germy Shoemangler
@Another Holocene Human: I saw the movie Carmen Jones at a revival theater a few months ago and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Anoniminous
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Rule 11?
ET
I assume someone sat down with her and had a real reality based conversation. I don’t know if it was her lawyer (considering his mouthing off it is something I doubt) but to stop the clerks from doing their job for her religious beliefs and they would have gotten in legal hot water would likely have resulted in some very, very bad office relations at the least and may have put her at peril in other ways.
Elizabelle
@Anoniminous: Specious filings. Ridiculous court cases.
Ruckus
@Another Holocene Human:
There are so many jobs that suck. And the conservatives seem to be authoritarian assholes or religious fundamentalists (but I repeat myself) who think that life should be terrible for anyone other than themselves (for which it should just be difficult) otherwise it has no value. So they do their best to remove any thing from life that may make it a bit easier or better, especially for anyone other than themselves, the chosen ones. You run into people like this all the time. When I was in the navy, most of the lifers were like this, you had to suffer in stupid ways because they had to. Life can never get better if it is always repeated. Even climate change can’t be addressed because we may make it better and anger the gods or something. We have to accept all the bad shit that comes our way without question or repair, just because. Or in today’s language, Reasons. Fucking assholes.
Anoniminous
@Elizabelle:
Tack. Danke. Thanks.
Brachiator
@Ruckus: There is a BBC news podcast called The Inquiry. The Aug 17 episode was interesting. What happens when robots take all our jobs. One professor was actually quite chipper about the idea that people might no longer look to work to give their lives meaning, and speculated about the government providing a guaranteed income. He was a little weak on where the money would come from.
Mike J
@Brachiator:
Tax the people who own the robots.
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: U-Carmen. Must see mo-vie.
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: Authoritarians. Yeah. Vogons.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
I have lots of company who are even worse off than I am. I have a friend who is 10 yrs older and he gets just over half of what I receive in SS benefits. His only saving grace is that he owns a house he built for his now deceased father. If he had to pay rent he’d literally be living on the street or starving. And he was a productive member of society, worked in the same industry that I did/do, and was very good at it.
Peale
@Brachiator: Yep. It would help actually is human beings would stop needing to live in houses that are built on land. The idea that everyone needs a place to live is already a difficult enough concept for people to accept. The idea that everyone needs to eat and breathe also seems a little to hippy-like to accept.
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator: It’s not “where the money comes from”. People have to be sheltered, shod, and fed, among other things, so economic-like activity will occur or there will be no more of us. It’s “how the money gets distributed” that’s the tricky part.
The problem with capitalism is that money runs through certain chokepoints, and the people at those chokepoints (mostly men, but not necessarily so) don’t like to give it up once they have it. They tend to dam it up and let a trickle out. Collectively, they destroy everyone’s prosperity.
Marx had a model, it worked for a while, but things have regressed to mean which means the old problem of capitalism and indeed of money/ownership, everything falling into a few hands while the economy shrinks, and those few hands have such means they can fight off any attempts to force them to redistribute and reboot the game.
NotMax
@Another Holocene Human
But – but – Carmen works in a (*gasp*) cigarette factory. Obviously evil incarnate. Think of the children!
;)
Peale
@Mike J: More likely use the robots to tax the people. There is blood in stones and if you press hard enough, people will figure out how to tap it for the amusement of our betters.
randy khan
@gex: For what it’s worth, my view on the question of whether the marriage licenses are valid is based on an analysis by a friend of mine who’s a law professor at Louisville, who describes the argument as frivolous.
Kentucky law does contain a specific provision allowing for licenses to be issued in the absence of the clerk, so it’s not like she absolutely has to sign them for licenses to be valid.
Someone will inevitably challenge the validity of these licenses, maybe an employer who wants to deny spousal benefits, maybe an heir or even maybe one of the married couple when (as will happen) there’s a divorce proceeding. But I think it’s going to be hard to argue successfully that the licenses are invalid because a county clerk decided not to comply with a Supreme Court decision. Most judges are very keen on the idea of judicial authority and not very keen on people who disobey court orders.
Anoniminous
@Brachiator:
Check out Modern Money Theory. I’m not convinced but it is a YOOOGE leap forward from the “money emerged from barter” fantasists.
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: A lot of our unions really fucked up on pensions. Which is to say what’s happened with pensions is totally fucked up. So it’s like saying they should have anticipated the un-precedented assholery and legal (?!) theft and bargained to have employers dump money into funds they controlled and then had a whole governing body and auditors and shit to make sure the president of the month didn’t steal the funds. My own union was like “fuck it” and bargained for funds dumped into 401Ks, which is not the best thing, for all the obvious reasons.
But, yeah, look at what happened to the Hostess workers. Their whole pension just STOLEN. That they bargained for, worked for, gave up raises for. MotherFUCKERS. How is that legal? SCOTUS is a stable of donkeys.
Bobby Thomson
@01jack: actually, federal judges can and do certify questions of state law to the highest relevant state court all the time.
Another Holocene Human
@Anoniminous:
Hmm, in the US inflation tends to follow un-paid-for wars. I wonder how that fits the theory.
Also, all those cons crying about the US gov printing money ought to be crying about how easy it is for criminals, most of them overseas, to print US money. That’s like money out of their pockets, especially if they’re goldbug deflation hounds. They should be marching on the US Treasury in Washington, DC, DEMANDING modern currency protection measures. Also, the US is under a court order to make bills distinct for the blind. If Treasury did that it would really fuck up the counterfeiters’ shit for a while. They ought to DEMAND that too.
What, they just need an excuse to bitch about the n***** president?
Oh. Never mind, then.
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: Painful. And immoral and wrong, in the “richest country in the world”. Stolen labor, stolen futures.
schrodinger's cat
@Mandalay: They are an extremely wealthy minority, 2% is their approximate percentage in Maharashtra, whose capital is Bombay.
Another Holocene Human
@NotMax: So, my wife’s parents were involved in the music world in NYC, and as part of her upbringing, my wife’s mother taught her Carmen when she was a toddler, but told her the cigarettes were candy.
(Apparently a woman being killed by her ex didn’t need glossing over?)
Brachiator
@Another Holocene Human: I dispute the fantasy that Marx had a model that ever worked, even for a short time. I take your other points, but it is not just a problem of capitalism.
Bobby Thomson
@Full metal Wingnut: there is a canon of construction that constitutional issues are avoided if possible; I.e., the court first tries to read the statute as meaning something that won’t violate the constitution before assuming it does and ruling that the constitution trumps the statute.
Bobby Thomson
@burnspbesq: fore!
Ruckus
@Another Holocene Human:
Assholes are assholes. And they are everywhere. If they thought they could make a buck out of it they’d fuck their mother. Which is one reason we call them motherfucking assholes.
catclub
@Another Holocene Human:
I remember reading that the Central States Teamsters Pension did much better in 2008-9 than lots of Hedge Funds.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: he can, but he would probably certify or duck the issue instead.
Elizabelle
Spanking new thread up. Betty Cracker and shelves and wine.
Bobby Thomson
@Hal: yeah, if Judge Bunning wasn’t clear about that he should have certified the question.
Brachiator
@Anoniminous: I am not sure that the theory is supported by history, but I will take a look at this.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: Its about bullying rather than diet. Extreme vegetarianism is how one displays piety in India. The thing to remember is that there is a lot of regional variation in the practice of Hinduism in India.
Among Hindus vegetarianism is sometimes equated with Brahmanism but that’s not always true. Many Brahmin communities in India such as say in Bengal and Kashmir have been traditionally meat eaters and many non-Brahmins are vegetarians like most banias (trader caste) in Gujarat.
In Maharashtra and especially Bombay meat and fish eaters are far more common and also politically powerful than say Gujarat. Hence the push back. The fisherfolk of the city are a very well organized and powerful constituency hence fish was left of this stupid ban because no one with any sense fucks with the Kolis (fishermen), Muslim butchers on the other hand are an easier target for BJP to hate on.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
CNN reports that
I haven’t seen an image, so I’m off to look for one.
rikyrah
‘
Getting paid 80k-with benefits- and won’t do her job?
get da phuq outta here.
boatboy_srq
@Mark B.: Very clear. And her current position seems actually both more offensive and less (legally) defensible than her old one.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Per KY.com
So what do straight marriage licenses say? Rowan County Clerk or “issued pursuant to federal court order,” hmm?
bystander
@shortstop: How about grifter vacuuming up all the Bucks he can as fast as he can?
bystander
@rikyrah: Imagine how the assistant clerk who is doing her job feels.
boatboy_srq
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Makes you wonder what happens when a couple holding one of those marriage licenses “issued pursuant to federal court order” moves to another state…
BethanyAnne
Here’s what the 2nd class marriage certificates look like: LInk.
Anoniminous
@Another Holocene Human:
the tl;dr answer: Conservative are idiots, dolts, and morons who don’t understand how the Federal Reserve System works.
An actual responsive answer is somewhat longer :-)
Anoniminous
@Brachiator:
Roger that
01jack
@BethanyAnne: Nice, neat, little bit of separate-but-equal there, eh? Don’t see how that will fly …
boatboy_srq
@BethanyAnne: Wow. That really is tampering with the document. I can see other (homophobic Red State) public officials taking issue with recognizing it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bobby Thomson: I don’t think that he can in the procedural posture of this case. YMMV.
Cervantes
@lowercase steve:
From the linked article:
Cervantes
@BethanyAnne:
Except … do we know if some other “class” of certificate has been issued recently?
D58826
@Jay Noble: I read somewhere today that they are computer generated forms and a computer generated signature. She doesn’t even have to touch the paper but maybe does risk ‘the gay’ from breathing the same air.
Thoughtful Today
Elizabelle
Bernie’s Liberty University speech & Q.&.A. is queued up here.
It skips straight to Bernie being introduced.
Very kind introduction by, was that Jerry Falwell’s son?
Captain C
@scav:
Loving someone of the same sax could make for a hell of a duet.
Cervantes
@Thoughtful Today:
Yes.
sharl
@bystander: I assume those deputy clerks are mostly staying quiet, but there are parody sites (of course) that have stepped up. The most popular of these on Twitter is SitNextTo Kim Davis, which imagines itself as the blond female deputy clerk who has shown up in photos of Kim Davis, sitting next to KD as the latter stands behind the office counter. [Typical photo shown in the banner image of that Twitter account.]
The major KY newspaper has identified the real deputy clerk, who (probably wisely) hasn’t said much, except to tersely note that she doesn’t appreciate all the cussin’ going on in that parody twitter account.
Kristin
@BethanyAnne: Yikes. “Pursuant to Court Order” is bothering me, because it’s not just pursuant to that court order. It’s pursuant to the current law of the land.
J R in WV
@BethanyAnne:
That piece of paper isn’t worth the paper it’s fudked up on.
They have done so much to that license that you can’t tell what it licenses you to do, who is licensing whom, nor what for. But you can be sure that isn’t valid for more than – what? – 45 days counting the day it wasn’t signed?
Now look how fudked up that official document is. What is Gov. Beshear doing calling that piece of tripe equal to the real thing with no X’s on it, and no exceptions nor whereas’s etc.!!??
Our Girl should be back in jail unless she reissues those documents without the “corrections” and additions.
I’ve found an olive farm in southern France for $155K – wonder how much the legal fees would add to that… I bet there aren’t christianist bigots in charge of government offices in France!!!
scav
@Captain C: If you think of it, two mirrored and upside-down ones can make a fine logo for same sax marriage.
Howlin Wolfe
@Richard Mayhew: It won’t affect the legal status of their marriage. Who cares if the bigoted clerk’s authority isn’t shown, she’s only a cipher, representing the county. She’s way overstepped her authority in refusing to issue lawful licenses; short of impeaching her and throwing her bigot ass out of office, this is a good go-around.
sharl
@J R in WV: I’ve read some commentary, and confirmed it by looking closely at BethanyAnne‘s linked photo, on the fact that the official’s Title line was filled in with “Notary Public” rather than “(Deputy) County Clerk” or similar.
Does anyone know if this is SOP for marriage licenses from that office, or is KD resorting to dirty shenanigans? I tried searching around, and found some others who noted this, but I haven’t seen any photos of what a marriage license from that office normally looks like when the boss isn’t being a grand-standing christianist.
A guy
I love how you haters want her to go away but keep her in the limelight by obsessing about her
Ruckus
@Another Holocene Human:
Not sure that OSHA is currently totally neutered today but I believe it sure was in the first decade of this century. Sure you can imagine why.
But you are correct that it has lost a lot of speed and energy over the last 25 yrs or so but I owned a business in CA then and CalOSHA was(is?) a force to be reckoned with. We did an air quality study once at work because we machined beryllium, which is considered a carcinogen. Passed with flying colors btw.
Thoughtful Today
lol
Sitnexto Kim Davis @nexttokimdavis 8h8 hours ago:
“You’re doing something special when #WestboroBaptistChurch and @Oathkeepers show up, and YOURE the biggest asshole in the story #kimdavis”
https://twitter.com/nexttokimdavis
Porlock Junior
@catclub:
“Court rules invalid and sends Davis back to jail (for violating the terns of her release from contempt)”
OMG those degenerates in Kentucky are now religiously raping innocent sea birds?
Forbid it, almighty God!
Porlock Junior
@Anoniminous: The eleventh rule is that there is no Rule 11.
Oh, and since it appears no serious person has replied: Rule 11 (11B, actually) of the federal rules of procedure says that whoever files a paper with the court in a legal proceeding has to certify that this isn’t just a delaying tactic, obstruction, or the like. There are serious sanctions applied to violators.
Highly condensed and IANAL but this is the idea.
ETA: Oh. If I had just read a wee bit further in the thread instead of doing a text search…
Porlock Junior
@Brachiator: It would come from the enormous gains in output from increasing productivity, instead of having those gains grabbed by the increasingly bloated capitalists. Which latter is exactly what has been happening for the last 30 years or so.
BTW, Keynes actually wrote of the future in which people would spend very little of their lives working hard. He placed this future about a century away. That is, not many years from now. Choose one or more: A) Nobody’s perfect. B) Keynes, genius that he was, was still too much of a capitalist. C) Other.