So this happened about 20 miles away from me over the weekend as the lovely folks from Operation Rescue decided that domestic terrorism is the best way to deal with the judge in the Kim Davis case.
Dozens of anti-LGBT activists protested Monday outside the home of the federal judge who jailed Kim Davis, the Kentucky county clerk who was held in contempt of court for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
The rally outside U.S. District Court Judge David Bunningâs home in Fort Thomas, Kentucky, was organized by the anti-abortion group Operation Save America, and protesters carried signs distributed by the conservative American View group founded by the neo-Confederate creationist Michael Peroutka.
âYou, sir, are the one thatâs in contempt of the law,â said the Rev. Philip âFlipâ Benham, head of Operation Save America and father of would-be reality TV stars David and Jason Benham. âYou, sir, are the one in contempt of Godâs court, youâre in contempt of the Constitution of the United States of America, of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, and sir, you need to repent.â
âIf you donât repent, weâre going to ask that the sheriff in Grayson County arrest you for putting this precious little girl into jail,â Benham added. âItâs wrong.â
Benham and his group have called on the Rowan County sheriff to arrest the federal judge when he arrives at work Thursday.
âJudge Bunning is in contempt of the Court of Almighty God and the constitutions of both Kentucky and the United States,â said Benham, who has been convicted of stalking an abortion provider, in a statement that included the name of the judgeâs street.
So I figure it’s only a matter of time before one of these fanatics decides that God’s Law needs a little help from those who help themselves and something tragic happens. Â Perhaps the sheriffs ought to be arresting these guys rather than Judge Bunning, too.
But what do you expect from the folks that brought us the age of the assassination of abortion providers? Â Merely stalking and threatening federal judges seems like a step back from the abyss for these particular domestic terrorists, right?
Once again I find myself having to apologize to America and the world for the state I happen to reside in.
leeleeFl
Don’t do that to yourself. My state RE-elected Rick Scott. We all have stuff we aren’t responsible for that embarrass us. (Cough) GWB
some guy
maybe it’s time for the pro-choice/pro-LGBT folks to fight fire with fire.
Kropadope
Well, it’s nice to see that the final arbiter of all things Constitutional, Reverend Benham, has finally weighed in.
FlipYrWhig
“Precious little girl”?
Mike E
@some guy: Yeah, that’ll end well.
bystander
RWNs have a proud history of stalking and threatening Federal judges with violence. It’s what they do.
Benw
Okay, so if the Sheriff arrests Judge Benning, puts him in the same cell as Kim Davis, also puts the Rev. Flip’s sons David and Jason in the same cell, and they film a reality TV show about the ensuing wacky hi-jinks called “Kim ‘n’ the Judge”, that means the Rev Flip gets everything he wants, right? Will he go away then?
Amir Khalid
@FlipYrWhig:
Yeah. Aside from the creepiness of that description, I’ve seen Kim Davis’ mugshot and she is not little.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Have they compared the judge to Hitler yet?
some guy
sounds like more lawyers and lawsuits may be called for.
mai naem mobile
Ironic or schadenfreude,not sure which, that David Bunning is wingnut Jim Bunnings son.
Hal
The disconnect from reality these people exhibit is scary. I have a couple of born again friends on Facebook who are straight up in end of the world mode over ssm. It’s so over the top ridiculous the fanaticism on display from these people. There is no reasoning with them with facts or rule of law. We need to just take John Oliver’s advice when dealing with climate change denial and say “who cares?”
boatboy_srq
Emphasis added.
Because nothing says respect and dignity like camping out on the front door of civil servants doing their jobs, waving offensive signage and screaming obscenities.
some guy
hhhhmmmm, I wonder what avenue foes of this bigot might best advance on?
boatboy_srq
@Kropadope:
Someone should tell that ars3h0le that when (if?) he gets to Heaven and serves as Counsel for the Defense, then he can use that line.
Barry
This is where it gets interesting, because this brings the self-interest of the federal judiciary into play.
bystander
I’m secretly hoping Kim has a change of heart and announces she’s divorcing hubby #4. She’s planning on marrying her cell mate, Rogue Van Dyke.
Then I woke up.
Wag
@boatboy_srq:
Could have been worse. They could have been protesting inside the home.
Give it a few weeks. It’ll get wise. It always does.
Wag
@Wag:
It’ll get worse. Not wise.
Scorch
Abortion is not in the Bible … these are pharisees and their acolytes. They are counting on others NOT READING the Bible and trusting their word. That’s all.
Our vaunted american clergy sold us out for a tax exemption, or else they would step forward and explain this.
So, instead of the endless efforts and angst of taking them seriously, liberal folks could, at any time, simply pick up the Bible and hold it up themselves. Because prohibitions of abortion are not in the Bible, therefore the Right’s position is not biblical, therefore these folks are either lying traitor scum or else they are frivolous blasphemers. Ha ha, kidding: they can be both.
Benw
@bystander: dreaming about hot lesbian action, again? You dog.
Amir Khalid
There is a law in America against intimidating federal officials like judge Bunning, right?
Gin & Tonic
@Hal: That fanaticism leaves me shaking my head. How can you work yourself up to care so much about the fact that two people whom you’ve never met wish to enter into a civil contract?
A Ghost To Most
Fuck all them christian fascists. You too Burnsie.
Chris
“This precious little girl.” That’s just too good.
delk
And today, Huckabee will be leading a protest in front of the prison and will be meeting with Kim.
rikyrah
Cheneyâs Iran lie exposed in dramatic fashion
09/08/15 08:00 AM
facebook twitter save share group 17
By Steve Benen
Former Vice President Dick Cheney is scheduled to speak today at a D.C. think tank, delivering remarks intended to condemn the international nuclear agreement with Iran. If an ignominious exchange over the weekend was evidence of his expertise, however, Cheney might want to reschedule, brush up on the details, and rethink his approach.
The underlying challenge for the failed former V.P. is the degree to which his own Iran policy failed spectacularly. Iran didnât have a meaningful nuclear weapons program until Tehran developed one â during the Bush/Cheney administration. At the time, in response to Iranâs nuclear program, the Bush/Cheney administration did nothing â except, of course, strengthen Iranâs regional power by invading Iraq.
With this in mind, Fox Newsâ Chris Wallace reminded Cheney over the weekend that Iran âwent from zero known [nuclear] centrifuges in operation to more than 5,000.â The Republicanâs response was extraordinary.
The Fox News host flashed that data on screen so no one could miss it, and added: âSo in fairness, didnât you leave â the Bush-Cheney administration â leave President Obama with a mess?â
âWell, I donât think of it that way,â Cheney countered. [âŠ] âBut the centrifuges went from zero to 5,000,â Wallace pressed.
âWell, they may well have gone but that happened on Obamaâs watch, not on our watch,â Cheney replied.
Thatâs the exact opposite of the truth, as Wallace, to his credit, quickly reminded the former V.P. Iranâs nuclear program blossomed, not under President Obama, but during the Bush/Cheney era.
Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created. Indeed, either Cheney doesnât know what happened in Iran on his watch, in which case his ignorance effectively disqualifies him from the debate, or Cheney simply doesnât know the facts, which renders his misguided opinions meaningless.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/cheneys-iran-lie-exposed-dramatic-fashion
Oatler.
We have a judge in Oregon who’s refusing to perform same sex marriages and nobody notices.
Keith G
The US Marshals will be protecting the judge and his home. The sign wavers would be tres foolish to screw with them. They (the JSD) are a hard lot.
In the early 1970s, my football teammate and workout partner’s dad (a man bigger than both of us put together) was a Marshal who spent a month shacking out in the garage of the federal judge who was supervising busing in Louisville. The stories I heard about idjits who showed up to hassle the judge, but were instead introduced to the members of the Judicial Security Division were both entertaining and a bit scary. Those were really tough times and I am sure that the current crop of sign wavers are not nearly as challenging.
greennotGreen
@FlipYrWhig: Yeah, that was my thought. The woman has kids and three ex-husbands (okay, she married one again.) That is NOT a “precious little girl.”
Oh, and David and Jason Benham hate homosexuality but were going to do a show on HGTV? Have they ever seen HGTV? It has always been a very gay-friendly network. But then, if you’re going to have a network with interior and landscape design and not be gay-friendly, you’re going to run out of programming PDQ.
rikyrah
Obama turns the âlame duckâ narrative on its head
09/04/15 01:22 PMâUPDATED 09/04/15 01:54 PM
By Steve Benen
Saudi Arabiaâs King Salman will meet with President Obama today, and as Politico put it, the Saudi king will meet with a U.S. leader âwith a swagger in his step.â
Nearly four months after he skipped President Barack Obamaâs high-profile Camp David summit, Saudi Arabiaâs King Salman will arrive at the White House to find a strengthened Obama and less leeway to influence U.S. policy toward Iran.
The elderly Arab monarchâs White House visit Friday comes just days after Obama secured the Senate votes he needs for the Iran nuclear deal to survive Congress.
Senate support for the diplomatic solution is still growing â in addition to the three new endorsements yesterday, Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) announced his backing for the policy this morning. Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) announced his opposition around the same time, but as a practical matter, his siding with the far-right on the issue wonât change the outcome.
Under the circumstances, itâs tough to blame the president for having âa swagger in his step,â not just because heâs overcome the Saudisâ skepticism about the international agreement, but also because Obama has had quite a bit of success lately.
Barring any unexpected developments, the successful implementation of the new U.S. policy in Iran is among the most consequential diplomatic success stories in a generation.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/obama-turns-the-lame-duck-narrative-its-head
Ryan
@rikyrah: The dastardly time-travelling Obama strikes again!
BobS
Other instances of protests outside of public officials’ homes:
Camp Casey
Sandra Bland protest
Pipeline protest
Bus drivers protest
Anti-Olympics protest
Different pipeline protest
rikyrah
Good for him, but I doubt, if he’s a good guy, he’ll be alive by the end of the season.
…………………
Stephen Rider Cast to Play District Attorney Blake Tower for Season 2 of ‘Daredevil’
By Tambay A. Obenson | Shadow and Act
September 4, 2015 at 1:10PM
Actor Stephen Rider has been cast to play New York City District Attorney Blake Tower in the second season of Marvel’s Netflix Daredevil series, according to Deadline.
According to the Marvel wiki, Blake Tower ran against the incumbent Foggy Nelson for the District Attorney’s office in New York City. Blake has also been an ally to Matt Murdock (Daredevil) at times, sharing information with him to help capture many of the city’s notorious criminals including the Jester, Mind-Wave and the Purple Man.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/stephen-rider-cast-to-play-district-attorney-blake-tower-for-season-2-of-daredevl-20150904
boatboy_srq
@mai naem mobile: I can just hear those family discussions: “Dad, could you tell your constituents to STFU and obey the law?”
A Ghost To Most
@Oatler.:
I believe that is a ceremonial duty, and not an inherent part of his job (could be wrong)
Morzer
@FlipYrWhig:
It sounded better in the original Gollumese.
For all those Floridians and Texans who feel embarrassed by the follies of their local politicians and other significant figures, Massachusetts is doing its yuuuge and classy best to make you feel slightly better:
Keith G
@Amir Khalid: Depends on the nature of the “intimidating” conduct.
Folks can protest at a private residence, but generally will be held to tighter time and place restrictions, eg. stay on, but not blocking sidewalks or impeding traffic. Also, noise level could be an issue.
rikyrah
Trailer: Nelson George’s Misty Copeland Doc – A Ballerinaâs Tale’ (Out Oct 14)
By Tambay A. Obenson | Shadow and Act
September 4, 2015 at 2:34PM
Sundance Selects acquired U.S. rights to Nelson George’s documentary, “A Ballerinaâs Tale” – a film about one of the most notable and trailblazing figures in the ballet world, Misty Copeland- and will release the film in theaters and on VOD on October 14.
Directed and written by George, the film made its world premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival earlier this year.
Produced by Leslie Norville and executive produced by Dorria L. Ball, Ingrid Graham and Copeland, the film provides a behind-the-curtain look at the daily life of Copeland, the first African American female soloist at New Yorkâs American Ballet Theatre (ABT) in two decades. On June 30, 2015, Copeland became the first African American woman to be promoted to principal dancer in ABT’s 75-year history.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/trailer-nelson-georges-misty-copeland-doc-a-ballerinas-tale-out-oct-14-20150904
Bobby Thomson
@Barry: only if you’re an idiot.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@A Ghost To Most: Yup. Why would someone choose to get married by someone who is opposed to their union when other people are available? The judge should, of course, be happy and honored to be asked to marry people, but it’s not an official part of his duties.
And it has been in the news, of course.
Cheers,
Scott.
shell
I think it says something that they were unable to even make their own protest signs
Morzer
@shell:
Well, that’s the conservative culture of dependency for you.
Bobby Thomson
@rikyrah: in retrospect, that exchange proves rather conclusively that Iran was nothing more than a buzzword for the rubes, as far as ChâŹn£„ was concerned.
rikyrah
Republicans Engage in More Treason to Undermine the President on Climate Change
By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Tuesday, September, 8th, 2015, 8:00 am
The Republicans have become used to treason, first undermining President Obamaâs efforts toward a negotiated nuclear settlement with Iran, and now, as Politico reports, his goal of a climate change agreement:
Top Republican lawmakers are planning a wide-ranging offensive â including outreach to foreign officials by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnellâs office â to undermine President Barack Obamaâs hopes of reaching an international climate change agreement that would cement his environmental legacy.
This is not entirely new. As far back as this spring, McConnell very publicly addressed foreign nations when, during a Senate Appropriations subcommittee hearing, he told EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy,:
One final point: You have assured international officials that the U.S. is serious about imposing climate change regulations. Iâd say what we have learned from your recent time on Capitol Hill is this is not the case. I would remind you that the Executive Branch is only one-third of the U.S. government. The Congress, of course, didnât pass Cap and Trade back in 2009 and 2010 when the Democrats had very large majorities here. So, the failure of Congress to sign off should signal to other countries that they should proceed with caution into the December 2015 climate talks in Paris.
It is one thing to cast doubts and misinformation at home. Republicans have been doing that for decades. They are even within their legal rights to try to block legislation in Congress. But it is entirely another matter altogether if they subvert the presidentâs will by working with foreign governments to accomplish their goal.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/09/08/republicans-engage-treason-undermine-president-climate-change.html
Bobby Thomson
@Morzer: not surprising. That asshole supported Junior Bush.
Jamey
I’m afraid these God-botherers will try to implement some Second Commandment solutions …
Paul in KY
@mai naem mobile: I’m liking him a whole lot more than I liked his asshole dad.
boatboy_srq
@Jamey: They’ll start leveling other houses of worship that don’t meet their strict Xtian standards? Or shuttering each and every business on Sundays?
delk
Five schools are being closed today in KY because they fear that Huckabee’s protest will create traffic problems.
Of course, without school ignorant parents can now parade their children, with misspelled signs, at the protest.
Gin & Tonic
@Paul in KY: Asshole dad was one hell of a pitcher, though.
Gin & Tonic
So brave Joe Manchin is a “no” on the Iran deal.
Morzer
@Gin & Tonic:
House Manchin: two missing balls on a lily-white ground.
Their words: “Cower hard!”
Snarki, child of Loki
I would hope that the federal, state, and local LEO’s treat the protesters with all the gentle kindness and consideration of citizen rights that they lavished on OWS.
scav
Praise be! For just has jeeeebus forgiven all their sins, he has also apparently absolved them of all consequences of not obeying laws they don’t choose to. For the bible, the constitution, the legal statutes, the very book that is thrown at them, all are only what they, the chosen,beliiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeevve them to be. If one has the gift one channels the very word of god, the founding fathers, and all superior legal authority! Praise be! Yea! for scientific reality itself! the very climate and all facts, mathematics or data are only what a true belieeeever belives them to be, such is the goft of the baaaaby. Anyone working underneath the true beliiiiieeeeever must submit to their edicts in everything for they speak with the tongues of fire, the very tongue of god and writ. (offer only available to certain believers — duuh)
Mike J
@Scorch:
In Numbers, chapter 5, priests perform a “test” to see if a woman is pregnant because of adultery. The priests brew up a drink that is supposed to cause an abortion if the wife has been unfaithful.
Hard to argue that God has a problem with abortion when he commands it, at least in certain cases.
ThresherK
@Morzer: I guess Tom Brady never asked Doug Flutie what Donald Trump did for the USFL.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
She’s now the first Principle and just kicked ass on Broadway. I’m in awe of her technique.
OzarkHillbilly
Well, he’s right about this much at least. If God allows jackasses like this one to speak, I truly do have nothing but contempt for such a court.
scav
Speaking of threats to marriage, Pope Francis is making it easier for Catholics to remarry. The democratization and fast-tracking of annulments, what will be next?
boatboy_srq
@scav: Is that Mammon 4:27-30?
boatboy_srq
@Morzer: More like fear of admitting that they can’t read (the Bible or any other writing).
Morzer
@Mike J:
To which the conservative response will be:
“Well, this God guy just doesn’t get how we do the Bible in America.”
Tripod
I find it best to be eternally cynical. They’re trying to drum up an issue and turnout for the statewide election.
burnspbesq
@A Ghost To Most:
Not sure what is causing you to mistakenly believe that i care what you think … on any subject.
Roger Moore
@Oatler.:
IIRC, though, that’s because he’s just sending people to a different judge in the same courthouse to get their marriage certificates. That’s quite different in practice from Kim Davis, who is not only refusing to record marriages herself but is also forbidding anyone else in the office from doing so.
OzarkHillbilly
@boatboy_srq: The new Pope wants it to be free.
He also emphasised that annulment ought to be free of cost.
Bobby Thomson
@Tripod: trying?
Morzer
@Roger Moore:
Vance Day is under investigation by the Judicial Fitness Commission, so it’s not as if he’s just skating along merrily under the radar.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oregon-judge-vance-day-refuses-perform-same-sex-marriages-religious-grounds/
Roger Moore
@shell:
They probably wanted to make sure they were spelled correctly.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
Has Pope Rickulous Santorum stated the Official Catholic Line on this matter? I’d hate to get all my Catholic doctrine from some illegitimate Pope person over in Yurp.
A Ghost To Most
@burnspbesq:
And yet, you felt it necessary to take a shot at me over the weekend. Fuck off, dookie.
Mandalay
We already have a glut of self important drama queens on this issue. Don’t make things worse.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: some illegitimate wet back Pope person over in Yurp.
FTFY, free of charge.
Gin & Tonic
@OzarkHillbilly: I helped a friend get an annulment many years ago, and while I’m not sure about *direct* costs, as in pay this fee for that document, it was abundantly clear that the larger his “voluntary” donation to his parish, the more quickly the process would move.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
O/T, is this person committing any crime by publicizing part of the address of the judge’s home?
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
I’ll send you some yuuge, classy quatloos as a token of my gratitude.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Federal judges have protective details, comes with the job these days. VERY good ones. This isn’t going to be like shooting a bunny rabbit or a doctor – if these idiots decide to pull a George Tiller operation on Judge Bunning I hope they’ve figured out amongst themselves which ones are volunteering to be the first to die.
@some guy: Damn, you think? I’m thinking that’s 25 years overdue.
@Amir Khalid: Not that I’m aware of. Unfortunately.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: Yep. My Aunt waited years for her fiance to get the money up to the innumerated magic level. This was back in the 60’s, have no idea how the process works nowadays, and to be honest could care even less. I left the church when I was 12 yo.
gene108
Drove back from visiting my mom in NC yesterday. Flipping through the channels, I found a Christian network broadcast on the Kim Davis case. Out of curiosity what the other side says, I listened.
The radio host, in a calm measured way (i.e. not Glen Beck / Alex Jones conspiracy crazy or a fire and brimstones sort of show), said that:
1. Kim Davis did not break the law, because the people of Kentucky voted overwhelming to ban gay marriage and therefore she was enforcing the law on the books based on the last law passed.
2. Fox News was not to be trusted. They were taking the liberal view of Kim Davis not upholding the law (see above).
3. Christians need to rally behind Kim Davis.
4. The Supreme Court pulled a new law out of its ass by allowing homosexual marriage.
5. Being a Co-equal branch of government, the Supreme Court cannot overrule the other branches.
6. The Federal Judge in this case has exceeded his authority.
7. Edit: Also mentioned a double standard, because when Prop 8 passed in CA, Gavin Newsome and others in CA conducted homosexual marriages, they did not go to jail and therefore this is another attempt by secular society to go after Christians.
The right-wingers are going to really dig in and stand atop history yelling “stop!”. They will be organizing through their own channels to fight this, in a way that will slip under the radar of people not tuning into their channels.
I do not look for this to go away anytime soon.
Iowa Old Lady
The ad I’m getting on this page promises to help me select the right holster for my concealed carry. I don’t know what provoked that one.
Morzer
@gene108:
You know, there are glimmers of reason in what the man says.
Mandalay
@gene108:
That one is a doozy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
In the end, he decided to go with Dick Cheney.
elmo
@Amir Khalid:
It doesn’t apply to white Christians, silly! Otherwise all those Bundy Ranch
terroristsprotestors would have gone to jail.Brachiator
New standard for legal rulings. Majority opinion. Dissent. Repent.
Theocracy Now!
No, ISIL still has you beat.
debbie
@gene108:
Well, Glenn Beck says it’s the fault of the government, which had no business involving itself in marriage. Going further, “Progressive racists” got the government into marriage in order to destroy African Americans through marriage. I’m kind of dizzy listening to him explain his philosophy, but his minions seem to think he’s making sense.
More humorously, he’s going to a Tea Party rally tomorrow at the U.S. Capitol. He’s giving a speech which he says wasn’t written by him — it came through him. He promises even the people who think he makes sense will think he’s lost his mind.
lgerard
@FlipYrWhig:
She’s 5′ 5″, 220 which I guess qualifies under local standards
/not quite as patronizing as calling a 49 year old woman a “little girl”
elmo
@Oatler.: There’s a difference between issuing the license and performing the ceremony. Only the clerk can issue the license. But a ceremony can be conducted by a judge, a rabbi, a minister, or a family friend who got one of those online Ministers-R-Us certificates.
My own gay wedding was performed by a dear friend who flew out to Maryland from California for the purpose. He’s ordained as a Unitarian.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@gene108: Ahh, good, some realism.
Gay marriage is going to be just like abortion rights: Roe v. Wade was handed down, what, about 40 years ago? Settled law, right? Supreme Court spoke, discussion over, right?
Once you stop laughing, consider this: the insane right wing is going to fight this even harder than Roe. So don’t count Obergefell v. Hodges as anything but the opening battle in a century-long war.
Brachiator
@gene108:
I agree with you. Gay marriage is a step too far for many fundamentalists. Or rather, it reflects their deep refusal to accept a secular society, and their contradictory and hypocritical insistence that society should narrowly reflect what is acceptable to them.
@debbie:
I am always amazed, but never amused, watching people who previously didn’t give a rat’s ass about black people suddenly manifest such deep concern for black folks’ well being.
Eric U.
@CONGRATULATIONS!: where is tim olyphant when you need him?
shell
@Mandalay: Tell this Mental Giant that if that were true, the South would still have slavery.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: You are wrong.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus: Elaborate, please.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
benw
@Mandalay: Same logic Mike Huckabee has already used. They’re either stupid or cynical.
Also, per the NYT, can the Republicans please, pretty please shut down the government over Planned Parenthood funding?
If you read between the lines of the article, it sounds not as serious as the Times wants it to be: mostly Ted Cruz is mouthing off and no one else on the R side is getting behind a shutdown threat.
debbie
@Brachiator:
Exactly! He’s been calling BLM terrorists for awhile and has said from the beginning that the only racism in this country has come from the Progressives.
lgerard
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I think I would disagree with this, if only because the disparity in viewpoints between oldsters and young people. As the older people for whom this seems to be a revolutionary idea die off, I think it will just become accepted. There will always be bitching and moaning about it, much like the complaints about divorce, but fewer and fewer people will pay attention to the whiners.
Cacti
Speaking of sending in the clowns…
Ted Cruz announces he’s on his way to Kentucky.
Belafon
@Mike J: I just went and read that chapter. Yep, God thinks so much about a fetus that he’s willing to kill it to prove a point. And when someone says, “the chapter says miscarriage” we can ask “so you’d be OK with anything that causes a miscarriage, right?”
Jay C
@rikyrah:
Or another interpretation: Cheney is just a lying son-of-a-bitch spouting mendacious bullshit trying to deflect onto President Obama the responsibility for problems his own Administration* caused and/or aggravated.
* Of course, he could always say “That was all President Bush’s doing! I was just the VP!!“: I’m sure his audience will eat it up….
OzarkHillbilly
@Omnes Omnibus: Actually, if we are talking about the same judge, they can do marriages or not, as they wish. They can’t do this marriage and not do another. Again, if we are talking about the same judge.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@benw: TheHill says they don’t have enough support to force a shutdown – yet.
The TeaBaggers are going to keep trying, if only to keep it in the news and to keep their voters riled up.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike J
@Belafon: What’s the difference between a chemically induced abortion and a miscarriage? Intent is all I can see, and the intent in the bible is to kill the fetus.
Omnes Omnibus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: A judge is a public employee and does not have the right to decline to perform a marriage if he/she is on marriage duty. If a priest, minister, imam, or rabbi chooses not to, that is a function of there individual faith/religion/conscience; a paid public servant doesn’t get that choice.
OzarkHillbilly
@Belafon: The medical term for ‘miscarriage’ is ‘spontaneous abortion’.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
So it is an inherent part of his job?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus: Ok. Thanks.
I just found this story:
So:
1) Oregon’s Commission thinks there’s something here that needs to be investigated. So it can’t simply be his run-of-the-mill personal decision.
2) He, or his representative, has said that his religious beliefs about gay marriage made him stop. He’s a judge, he can’t pick and choose what laws he supports.
3) Ohio rightly ruled that a judge who acted this way shows a bias that prevents him from being impartial.
Given those things, and the baseline “Equal Justice Under Law” that all judges must uphold, he should get with the program. Either marry people or resign.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@mai naem mobile: Ironic, I believe. Dave Bunning in smart, thoughtful, and grounded in reality as well. Unlike his father.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: their, for fucks sake, not there.
Another Holocene Human
@Benw:
Lookie here, you say that to my wife again, I’ll sock you one, eh?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: There will be no shutdown this year. The GOP is still somehow under the impression they can win this thing.
They also seem to be under the impression that the American public has the memory span of a marmoset. They might not be wrong.
Another Holocene Human
@Chris: It sounds like leftover baaaaAAAAAAaaabies patter.
srv
@OzarkHillbilly: No consequence fast-track annulments, Jesuits emoting everywhere about going beyond Vatican II, Opus Dei bishops open arms with illegal immigration (Gimme that Federal money flowing into Catholic Charities).
What’s a Real Catholic supposed to do?
the Conster
OT, but I heard a short clip this morning of some speech Hillary was giving, and I heard her promise to put America back on the right track again – can someone who saw or read the speech, talk me off a ledge and give me some context? If she’s running against Obama’s record, I’m going to jump.
bystander
@Oatler.: A judge refusing to perform marriages bothers me a lot less than the one person who controls all legal title to marriage refusing to issue the requisite license. I don’t care what the person issuing driving licenses, fishing licenses, or marriage licenses thinks of me. I just want the license so I can make it legal. Do I want to be married by somebody who secretly is reviled by my existence? Not anymore than I want to eat at Cracker Barrel, ChikFiller or that pizzeria that is refusing to cater a fictitious wedding. I appreciate the honesty.
OzarkHillbilly
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Ummmm Scott?
the Ohio Supreme Courtâs Board of Professional Conduct has no bearing on Oregon judges conduct. Not sure how that got mixed up.
A Ghost To Most
@srv: Just modifying their religion to meet the times, like all good religionists do.
Shakezula
Correction: Operation Save America is probably MORE conservative than Operation Rescue.
OzarkHillbilly
@srv: Crucify themselves. They’re expert at it.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@OzarkHillbilly: Sorry I wasn’t clear.
Obviously Ohio law has no bearing on Oregon law.
But the general principle holds – judges have to be impartial.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: I’d vote for him again….
Another Holocene Human
@OzarkHillbilly:
Oh he done messed up now. That’s a lucrative revenue stream, bribes above and below the table for a successful annulment. He’s messing with their money!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@the Conster: It’s apparently been a line in many speeches over the summer. E.g.:
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chris
@lgerard:
I don’t recall the exact numbers, but I remember reading polling data on social issues that showed that the generational shift on gay marriage was YOOOOGE, but that opinion regarding abortion remained stable from one generation to the next. So it sounds like, basically, what you said.
I just think it’s going to be harder institutionally for Christian churches to back-pedal on gay rights, because they’ve tied their ship so loudly and visibly to the homophobic bandwagon – that, along with abortion, has been their big thing since the eighties. The religious right may have been originally created to preserve all-white institutions in the South, but one didn’t advertise the fact – that’s what the dog whistles were for. On gay issues, they’ve never used dog whistles, it’s pretty much always been straight up “homosexuality is a sin, and if you grant these people their rights, the world will end.” How do you sell your congregations on having been wrong about that, especially when you’re relying most heavily on the die-hards who will never be okay with homosexuality (and there’ll always be a contingent like that)?
BobS
I have a comment from earlier (awaiting moderation) that provides links to several examples of what Zandar terms
“domestic terrorism” directed at public officials. Among the examples are a couple of anti-pipeline protests (at the homes of Mass. Governor Charlie Baker & John Kerry), an anti-Olympics protest at the home of Boston Mayor Martin Walsh, a Milwaukee Transit Union demonstration at the home of the county executive, a demonstration at the home of Sandra Bland’s arresting officer, and Camp Casey.
srv
Murdoch will have to buy a lot more ink for his papers, but it will be good for business. Biden will make the final debates so much more interesting for Trump.
Another Holocene Human
@gene108: I wasn’t aware Gavin Newsome defied a federal judge. They told him to knock it off and he did. False equivalence is false.
That one about “no branch can override any other branch” is complete Birfer Troofism nonsense and kind of scares me.
If you can’t even grasp the most basic facts about how our government works, or at least, don’t care to and substitute them with a fiction of your own, what of the social contract? Civil order? What about innocent kids soaking this nonsense up?
Mandalay
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Right. I wouldn’t want a judge who refused to marry me for being gay hearing a case where I had been assaulted for being gay.
The judge would surely argue that one thing has nothing to do with the other, but it doesn’t even pass the smell test.
Frankensteinbeck
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
They may whine about it, but opposition to gay marriage will be nothing like Roe. There are major practical differences. Abortions can be performed only by a limited number of specialists in limited facilities, and are a separate procedure from other medical services. There’s a huge amount of room to nickel and dime that to death, which is mostly what they’ve been doing. Gay marriage is performed indivisibly from regular marriage. Same people, same facilities, same process, same documents. It’s much harder to pick away at that.
There are also major differences in sentiment. Opposing gay marriage does not provide nearly the thrill of self-righteousness that protesting ‘baby killers’ does. The public is much more in favor of gay marriage, and more inclined to view protestors as contemptible bigots rather than people with a reasonable objection. Also, as Sarah Palin reminded us recently, a serious number of Christianists associate abortion with lazy, slutty black women (a major racist stereotype). All together, there won’t be the same passion in opposing gay marriage as there has been with abortion.
Woodrowfan
first student in class wearing a “TRUMP” shirt today. gah. it begins
OzarkHillbilly
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: My only question in all of this is that some judge somewhere, and I think it is the one in Oregon, but not sure, is refusing to do any marriages for anyone because he doesn’t want to do gay marriages. The fly in the ointment of the argument that he should not be allowed to withdraw from this… governmental action is that his type of judge in his jurisdiction are free to choose to not perform marriages in general tho not in specific cases.
If it is one and the same judge, I have to come down on this homophobes side. Never mind why he doesn’t want to, if he is in fact free not to, than that is that. Can’t be changing the rules because I don’t like his religion. (for the record, I don’t like any religion)
I took a brief gander at an article and it wasn’t in there and don’t recall where I read it. (LGM?) Anyway, I gotta go.
Gin & Tonic
@BobS: More than three URL’s in a post is a no-no.
Keith G
@the Conster: Kindly unknot your under garments.
There is enough that is troubling about our society’s (and our government’s) path(s) , that one can make this statement without it being a kick in Obama’s balls – things that Obama did not have a hand in and/or not have been able to prioritize due to the unforgiving limits of the time-space continuum.
But if you are insistent on jumping….
Roger Moore
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I expect that gay marriage is going to be a lot more like interracial marriage after Loving. There’s going to be a huge freakout, and then some other shiny object will get the attention of the bigots and they’ll forget about it.
boatboy_srq
@Morzer: @gene108: The Reichwing solution is not to disbelieve Fauxnews b/c Faux spouts BS, but to pressure TBN and Daystar to turn up their own “news” services to report The Truth(iness) because Faux no longer speaks The Truth. Epistemic closure is tightening, not dissolving.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Chris: Dunno. I think most churches will evolve over time, just like their members have. There will, of course, be noisy outliers – look at the Westboro Baptist Church
peoplefamily.MotherJones from 2012:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who tends to be an optimist about eventual progress.)
boatboy_srq
@Another Holocene Human:
Good one.
Calouste
@Mandalay: As usual, substitute “gay” with “black” or “Jew” and see what the result is. Do we expect a judge who doesn’t do marriages because he doesn’t want to marry blacks or Jews to be impartial in any court cases involving blacks or Jews? He should be forced to resign. He made it obvious he can’t be impartial.
BobS
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks. I’ll watch that.
TG Chicago
Has anybody asked a Christianist supporter of Kim Davis how they would feel if a Quaker clerk refused to issue firearm or hunting licenses?
Somehow I suspect there would be some fancy constitutional jitterbugging in response.
PurpleGirl
Isn’t the county clerk refusing to issues ANY marriage licenses so she doesn’t issue them to same-sex couples? That’s refusing to her JOB. She should lose her job by impeachment as soon as the legislature is back in session.
I believe the one of the reasons for the Secret Service was that federal judges were being threatened in the 1800s. I forget what the issue was, but at least one federal judge was killed.
These Christianists don’t know what persecution is. I’m tired of their hurt feelings. They should thank G_d they aren’t Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
scav
@srv: Well, there was screaming and tantrums when the Church started insisting priest be the ones to perform marriages, so why not now as well?
Grumpy Code Monkey
Sharia Law for me, not for thee. These are the people who would make America into a genuine theocratic state along the order of Iran (no small irony, there). I’ve heard more than one of them argue that “separation of church and state” either a) doesn’t really exist, or b) is a mistake in the Constitution.
And a good chunk of them are armed.
Amir Khalid
@PurpleGirl:
As I understand, the conservative, Republican-dominated state legislature in Kentucky is on Davis’ side in this matter, even though she herself is a Democrat, and will likely not impeach her.
EmDeeBee
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Wikipedia says (I know, but I don’t want to research it):
[citations omitted]
But, of course, none of these fringers were complaining he was unqualified back then. I can’t find a peep of protest from the right about his nomination, though he did make one week’s list of “Top Ten Conservative Idiots.”
shell
With a banjo on his knee?
JMV Pyro
@shell:
Bacon wrapped machine gun.
SFAW
@Morzer:
I wasn’t aware that he was born in Kenya. Why am I always the last to find out these things?
Howard Beale IV
@Amir Khalid: Yep-last I heard Federal Marshalls are on site at the judge’s residence.
gbbalto
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Didn’t work out as they anticipated! A measure to legalize, rather than outlaw, was on the ballot. The voters approved same sex marriage by 52-48 (vs the 61%+ who voted for Obama).
Mandalay
@PurpleGirl:
That would make her a martyr who could jump on the speaking circuit. I prefer that Kentucky does absolutely nothing. She will still be a martyr, but she will remain in jail.
I haven’t seen any polling on support for Kim Davis but I think it will wane over time. Most of the GOP candidates are already steering well clear of her, and the few who support her have surely harmed their campaigns in the long term.
Amir Khalid
@JMV Pyro:
That rifle (not machine gun, as military veterans among the Juicitariat have pointed out) must have a wonderful aroma of rancid grease by now.
NonyNony
@Roger Moore:
They haven’t “forgotten” about their opposition to interracial marriage – it’s just that the number of people who object to interracial marriage has gotten smaller over time as the generations that followed the ruling have pretty much bought into the American small-l libertarian idea that two consenting adults in love is a personal thing and society should just go fuck off and leave them alone. That’s why gay marriage has taken root so quickly – we started buying into the idea of romantic love as the foundation of a marriage during the late 1800s/early 1900s and once you have that as your baseline anything that interferes with it makes the people interfering into the villains in a bad melodrama.
Abortion, on the other hand, is not about two consenting adults. It’s about a single adult making a decision. It can be framed as a single adult making a decision about her own body, or it can be framed as a single adult making a decision about a proto-baby. By getting the narrative to focus on the fetus (and doing some sleight of hand to equate a fetus with a baby), the conservative position gets into a place where the “hero” of the narrative is the fetus and the villain is the doctor performing the abortion (the mother in the narrative is ignored because even acknowledging her as part of the conversation opens things up to the other narrative – the one that is focused on her choices about her body – which would be detrimental to getting the listener to identify with the fetus as the hero/victim).
(I think a lot of folks don’t consider the power of narrative on our political system. I really think more people vote based on the narrative in their heads than they do on facts or any other kind of empirical observations.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: I remember Reagan saying “Lame duck, hell!” but I can’t remember the issue/vote– anybody remember?
Anyway, lame duck hell!
as Greg Sargent points out, there is no firm commitment to block vote (filibuster) on the deal and spare Obama having to veto. But I think that’s an issue that really only matters to AIPAC, Fox and the hate radio crowd (forgive the redundancy).
Also, too, WTF, Cantwell? I gave you money once! I think it might have been fifty whole dollars!
Kay
My 13 year old saw some Huckabee rant on Facebook and I told him Huckabee is a person who makes big money off generating outrage and should be ignored.
This grifter trade is completely out of control. There are now whole careers devoted to getting rich off this stuff. It’s disgusting. We’ve always had hucksters and frauds but did they used to be so celebrated and taken so seriously? Is this yet another area of ethical collapse?
rikyrah
HOW did they get a judge’s HOME ADDRESS?
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
Doesn’t know the facts is being polite – Monster Cheney is lying deliberately, trying to save his historical image as a successful tough geopolitical leader, as opposed to the truth.
Which is that everything he touched as a leader turned gradually to crap.
North Korean, one of the Axis of Evil nations, now a member of the nuclear weapons family, thanks to – wait for it – The Bush/Cheney axis of evil stupidity.
Iraq – once a prosperous totalitarian nation, with different cultures coexisting in an uneasy truce, now a violent failed nation, again, thanks to the Bush/Cheney axis of evil stupidity.
Iran – once a large and influential cosmopolitan nation, with strong and aggressive religious leaders once kept hemmed in by Iraq, now free to contribute to the religious havoc raging in the mideast . Now without any opposition from Iraq, the failed state, and also with a strong nuclear program started under, yes, the Bush/Cheney Axis of evil stupidity.
I gotta stop now – I’ll get too depressed to enjoy a fine summer day.
Ben
@Amir Khalid:
FYI Dems hold the state House (although many are conservative like Davis). So yeah, she ain’t going nowhere.
Tommy
@Kay: I wish more people got this. They are in fact grifters.
raven
@Kay: Did you catch Christie on Mornin Jihad today.? He was os over the top with his “Obama and de Blasio are promoting lawlessness” that even Joe called him out.
Kay
@NonyNony:
I agree with you about the mother in the narrative but erasing the mother goes much deeper. It’s real. If you read the far Right abortion statutes that are all over the place she literally disappears. The fact that they draft these things in Right wing think tanks and then send them out for rubberstamping says something really profound about the anti-abortion movement. The mothers have no agency, no independent worth in these laws- the passivity and void there is always shocking to me, yet no one in that “movement” picks it up. It’s a way of thinking about women.
raven
< "It's the liberal policies in this city that have led to the lawlessness that has been encouraged by the President of the United States," Christie said.
"Sanctuary cities across the country, where if you are mayor, you don't want to enforce the immigration law? Eh, don't bother. Because the President doesn't like those laws," he said. "You want to get high in Colorado and Washington, even though marijuana is against the law in this country? Eh, go ahead."
John
@Snarki, child of Loki: OWS? How about BLM? When I see footage of god-bothering imbeciles doused with pepperspray by cops in full body armor, then I’ll start to believe that there is some parity in how different populations are policed.
Kay
@raven:
I did not. I think it’s such a shame that they’re doing this because there is real movement at the state level to reform the crim justice system. They’re going to drum this up to win the next cycle and scare off state legislators, who were moving in the right direction. Partly it’s cost. Incarcerating this many people is ruinously expensive.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: I saw a blurb that he was accusing the city (NYC) of cooking the books on crime stats, because crime was way down since BdB ended stop-and-frisk
Tommy
@raven: It is hard for me to get outraged about all the shit they say about Obama. But that Obama wishes harm on other people or lawlessness is getting up to the top of the list.
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yea, he actually followed Mr and Mrs de Balsio on Joe. How’d they get his fat fucking ass in the green room with them?
(tempted to scold me for playing the fat card on that punk? fuggettaboutit.)
raven
@Tommy: How ya like this one?
Chris
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
The closest thing to a coherent argument I’ve heard is that the phrase “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” is meant to forbid Congress from creating a state church like the Church of England or, in many countries, the Catholic Church, but that the founding fathers nevertheless fully intended America to be a Christian nation, just generically Christian without the formal “establishment” of a Vatican or whatever the Anglican version is.
Jay C
@NonyNony:
Abso-freakin’-lutely. Especially in a era of all-pervasive “media” of one sort or another. The big problem is that – especially where politics and/or religion and/or the conjunction of the two is involved, the “narrative” is all too easy to be formed – or hijacked – by the loudest and simplest.
AS the Kim Davis case amply (if sadly) proves.
Tommy
@raven: I think Trump is some kind of strange performance art. A rich man feeding his ego. Christie is a governor of a large state. I hold him to a higher standard.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Cantwell is firmly in the pocket of a prominent local company (cough) Boeing (cough).
She was also an “aye” vote on the Iraq war, as opposed to Murray who was a “nay”. If she doesn’t support the Iran deal, I see a primary challenge in her future.
PurpleGirl
@Amir Khalid: I would recognize her as a “Southern” Democrat or Dixiecrat, not as a Democrat in a Northeast mode. I don’t think she believes most of the same things I do as a Democrat.
SFAW
@raven:
You know who else âalways felt that I was in the militaryâ?
Every fucking Rethug chickenhawk since 1980 (at least). Especially the ones at the forefront of the war-mongering.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
No surprise there, but what’s the connection to Iran? Boeing execs tied to the Saudis?
Roger Moore
@NonyNony:
There’s also the whole issue of it requiring the listener to recognize female agency. They want to make the narrative about the (assumed to be male) doctor because they don’t like to recognize that women are competent to make decisions for themselves. This is obvious from a lot of the anti-abortion measures they’re passing, which seem to be premised on the idea that foolish, flighty women are asking for abortions without having considered the consequences, and that those women will change their minds as soon as they’re reminded that the abortion will kill their baby.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m not sure what the specific problem is this time around, apart from war being generally positive for the bottom line of the Boeing Corp.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chris: I suspect there’s a lot of truth to that, but even those long dead and (overwhelmingly) Protestant land owners recognized that “Christian” was a pretty hard damn word to define. Kim Whatsits would’ve thought Jefferson was fifteen different kinds of heretic, and I imagine Jefferson would have though of her of the sort not to be allowed in the big house.
IANAL is an understatement, much less a Constitutional scholar, but it seems to me this would apply to her (from Wiki)
Is she not effectively applying a religious test to the five of six deputies she didn’t birth who are willing to put this nonsense behind them and do their damn jobs?
SFAW
@Chris:
Which is, of course, not true (as you probably know), but the RWNJ never let facts worm their way into an argument. [I expect some wag, somewhere, came up with an aerosol can of “Facts-B-Gon!” to give to those special someones, a/k/a morans, who populate RWNJ protests.]
Tommy
@SFAW: I was raised a military brat so I would NEVER say I served. I might be able to empathize with service but I’d never, never, never say I served. I grew up on or around a military base but that isn’t service.
John
@Chris: @Chris:
That makes sense only if you are completely unaware of the fact that a majority of the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were Deists, many of whom openly questioned the divinity of Jesus Christ. It’s hard to imagine that they envisioned the United States as a Christian nation.
Paul in KY
@Morzer: Tom Brady, slimeoid that he is, does have legitimate reasons to vote GOP, being that he is a millionaire.
SFAW
@Tommy:
As I would expect you would (or wouldn’t, as the case may be).
But, then again, I’ve never perceived you as a chickenhawk or RWNJ
raven
@SFAW: Funny, I always “felt like” a proud fucking civilian even on those occasions when I made E-4!
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Since Boeing makes commercial aircraft, it could be contracts at stake with one of the national airlines.
PurpleGirl
Trump’s parents ended up sending him to a military school because he had academic and behavioral problems. He was asked to leave several other schools. He may have gone to Wharton but before that he was a mess academically. The military school was a last ditched effort to get him through school.
SFAW
@raven:
Not surprised. If it were the other way around, you’d likely be infesting RedStoat or Freeperland. Or running for Congress as qa Teabagger.
Glad you’re here, instead of the other way around. Even though you have some weird choices re: which sports teams you support.
Tommy
@SFAW: If I was called to war I would fight. Drafted. But outside of that I got to desire to fight. WWII I am all in. But every war in my life, and I am 46, I would not want to fight.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Peale: El Al or… I forget the name of the big Qatari or Kuwaiti line, would cancel Boeing contracts if Cantwell supports the deal? Strikes me as pretty tenuous. I think we often underestimate the sincerity of stupidity when we search for venality in our pols.
SFAW
@PurpleGirl:
Maybe it’s innate prejudice (or ignorance) on my part, but I haven’t generally thought that military schools turned out uber-assholes. At least, not to the level that Trump has attained.
Mandalay
@raven: And this:
Even when he ducks military service, he still has to brag that he is better than those who served.
SFAW
@Tommy:
Hey, a Rethug wins the White House next year, you may get your “chance,” whether you want it or not.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Because of all the Iranians involved, I guess.
Peale
@raven: Moaning Joe needs to get with the program. If you read the post, the entire city is in the hands of nude women, crazy west indian immigrants and muderous black thugs and De Blasio isn’t doing anything about it…at least according to their front page stories each day.
Mandalay
@Tommy:
I second that.
Another Holocene Human
@TG Chicago: Many years ago, before your mother was born and when Roman Catholic hating was still very fashionable, there was a big kerfuffle in rural Massachusetts over the hiring of an Irish Catholic girl in a Post Office.
The more hysterical element of the population feared that allowing one of THOSE into a civil service position (or an elected position) would open the door to Tyranny! because everyone knows Roman Catholics take their marching orders from the Pope.
My how things change.
SFAW
@Mandalay:
I am reminded of Molly Ivins’s closing line when she wrote about Camille Paglia.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Go ahead. Get up and give all the “surrendering to the terrorists” speaches your heart desires.
Tommy
@SFAW: Thank you as a kid of a father that went to a military school. He wanted him to strive for perfection.
My father self-published a book about the experience. He goes to the reunion of the school and it had been closed for 30+ years.
SFAW
@Another Holocene Human:
Hell, John Kennedy had to state loudly and clearly that he would not take marching orders from the Pope.
Rethugs these days would demand the same thing, but for a different reason of course.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
ICYMI – Kim Davis has been ordered released from jail by Judge Bunning. Not a lot of details yet.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Peale: I would hope, maybe against hope, that Cardin and Schumer and Manchin would at the very least help Harry Reid block those disgusting theatrics. Menendez I would have even less faith in.
Peale
@Mandalay: Great. His anti-ISIS plan is “I will find a new MacArthur to lead us to encircle and destroy them.” How much you wanna bet that he’ll look around and decide that the “Next Patton” is himself.
catclub
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Maybe the insane right wing, but not the powerful or populous right wing. They fought integration. This will be forgotten shortly.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I’m seeing she’s agreed not to interfere with her deputies issuing licenses. You know, the deal the judge proposed a week ago.
Xenos
@PurpleGirl:
Some reporters called up all the members of his class at Wharton who could be tracked down.
Nobody remembers ever seeing him on campus. He seems like the sort of person that would be remembered if he actually showed up for classes, seminars, events, and exams.
http://fortune.com/2015/08/14/donald-trump-wharton/
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Just saw that three Democrats announced support – enough to maintain filibuster – with no need for Veto. THEN, Manchin announced his decision. Profile in courage.
Brandon
@Grumpy Code Monkey: That’s about right. These people oppose Sharia not on due process or other constitutional grounds, but because it is the wrong god.
Another Holocene Human
@NonyNony:
Surely it was earlier than this. Twain writes about this, mocking French accounts of American culture, and I have great-greats who fled Germany so they could live together in the US because their relationship was forbidden by the German class system. (If you’re curious, read Goethe’s Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers. He rants about this quite a bit. Werther is likely available free and in English.)
According to demographic data, American born women had a relatively high age of first marriage and from what we can glean at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries first sexual intercourse was about the age of first marriage.
Recall the tough American women of the frontier, who ran their own businesses and households, while the men traveled far from the family for work–or they died. Or they abandoned the family.
Women lacked a lot of rights, no doubt about it. But because of some of the circumstances of post-1815 America they enjoyed better status than European women overall.
The US was rich with land in the Western sense, which meant there weren’t the same pressures as in Europe to keep land in the family and arrange marriages long before the children have a choice, but also to delay marriage well into adulthood to preserve middle class status (which the French, at least, were doing).
catclub
@PurpleGirl: The long article in Politico on Trump versus West Palm Beach is fascinating.
1) Trump does not seem to recognize any boundaries for his behavior.
2) He has a phalanx of lawyers ready to sue.
3) The lawsuit is often designed to get something else, relatively unrelated to the lawsuit.
4) He always declares victory.
Xenos
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That is a good move by the judge. Now that she no longer matters, it is not a big deal.
If she then goes back to shutting down the office, toss her in jail again.
Make the contempt of court the only issue.
Another Holocene Human
@Kay:
What about the 1980s? Stock frauds, religious frauds, political frauds. We had ’em all.
Another Holocene Human
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s an open secret that NYC cooks their crime stats, but it sure as hell didn’t start with DeBlasio.
Gravenstone
@Amir Khalid: I’m sure the “good” Reverend meant his description in the most paternistically patronizing manner possible.
gex
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah it’s the same deal. But you earn double miles towards Heaven if you get thrown in jail for your God.
Jay C
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Here’s a link to Judge Bunning’s Order releasing Kim Davis. Concise and to-the-point.
1. No interference with the issuance of legitimate marriage licenses.
2. Bi-weekly reports from the Clerk’s office to ensure compliance with 1.
Though I’m assuming that Ms. Davis (and/or the swarm of parasitic hucksters/grifters/nuts she has attracted) are unlikely to just leave the issue alone, now that she and they have gotten a vision of that wingnut gravy-train.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@gene108:
Well, that’s a lie right there. Newsome performed marriages after the CA Supreme Court struck down Prop 22. Same-sex marriages were performed until Prop 8 passed, and were suspended until that worked its way through the courts. They’re conflating Prop 22 and Prop 8 even though they’re 8 years apart.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Jay C: Thanks. It’s good that he’s explicitly keeping an eye on the office to make sure they do their jobs without interference.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I wonder if this is, in any way, a response to the “they may be handing out licenses but if I’m not signing them they’re not valid” bullshit that had been put out there after she was put in jail.
Edit: I also like that it takes the “my boss made me do it” excuse off the table. Kim can’t get in their way and they can’t use that as a lame excuse. Well done, I think.
I wonder what the attorneys here will think.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Xenos:
I wouldn’t necessarily assume that Trump was always the loudmouth he is today. Wharton’s a pretty big place, and Trump doesn’t seem like someone who would be joining clubs or doing other social activities.
Though if he was one of the a-holes demanding that Obama release his transcripts, then I’d start to think there might be something there.
torllhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Peale:
Oh, I think the cause-and-effect is a lot more direct than that
If we’re not using them up, how is Boeing getting the contact to replace the stockpile?.
torllhattan
@torllhattan:
Okay, too many links I guess. FYWP!
Anyway, re Boeing and Iran, Boeing would like to sell the Pentagon more of these, please.
cckids
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
He’s been one of the loudest of those a-holes. Also kept asserting that no-one remembered Obama at (I think) Columbia. Part of the whole birtherism/Manchurian candidate BS he loves to rant about.
Bobby Thomson
According to TPM Davis’ lawyers are already saying she plans to go right back to what she was doing.
trnc
@Wag: Nuts. I thought I had stumbled onto a new meme.
boatboy_srq
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Getting a taste of women’s prison can do that to you – especially if you’re a queer-h8tin’ fundie wingnut who might just believe that prison makes you Teh Ghey (not that Davis herself has said that, but it’s been said by others familiar with her religulous [mis]guidance).
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@cckids:
In that case, I want to see Trump’s Wharton transcripts. In long form. :-)
WaterGirl
@Bobby Thomson: I can only hope that this judge is giving her enough rope to hang herself.
Or maybe this judge is like my kitty when I brought my puppy home. When Henry pushed her too far, she would hold up her paw as if to say “don’t make me hit you” but if the pup didn’t let up, she would eventually smack him pretty good.
This woman’s total disrespect for the law is maddening. Enough is enough. I hope she gets smacked down good and hard.
In a world where black people are murdered because they look at an officer wrong while riding a bicycle or make eye contact with a cop while driving, I can only say that this woman is benefiting from a whole lot of white privilege.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Bobby Thomson:
Then the judge bounces her right back to jail. It’s not a good idea to defy a federal judge, and an even worse idea to do it twice.
chris9059
@some guy: Indeed. I wish I lived in Kentucky so I could protest in front of Reverend Benham’s home.
chris9059
@Xenos: The idea that a 69 year old man think his college grades from 50 years ago are actually relevent to the question of whether he is qualified to be President is actually quite silly. But since Trump brings up the issue he deserves to be hoist on his own petard.
J R in WV
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
I’m a well-armed atheist hippy, and the anti-constitutionalist theocrats should watch their asses if they go there. I’m a better shot, because my Grand-ma taught me how to shoot! She taught Mrs J too, as soon as she realized that Dixie (Mrs J’s Grandma) hadn’t already taught Mrs J how to shoot.
“I can’t believe Dixie never taught you how to shoot!!” But of course Mrs J’s Grandma moved to town,while my Grandma lived on the farm they built in 1932, and had plenty of room to shoot.
J R in WV
@Paul in KY:
Not so. Regardless of how much money/income a persons has, they will increase that wealth and/or income more with a Democratic administration than with a Republican administration.
Statistics from financial results show that the economy improves more better faster during any selected Democratic administration than during any given Republican administration.
Right now employment numbers are superior to those for any part of the Reagan administration, for one example. The Clinton administration had produced a more than balanced budget, their numbers, if left alone, would have paid off the national debt in short order, if the Bush crime syndicate had not been allowed to spoil the budget with an off-the-books war.
But no, Bush and Cheney were allowed to rage against the mid-east without any adjustments to the income side of the federal budget, and so we went into debt deeper and deeper, in order to make payments to Cheney’s crew. And Obama has just about got us out of the increasing deficit, just in time for christianist thieves to ruin the budget again. In order to steal our birthright.
I think there was a chapter in the christianist bible about stealing a birthright. A shame the current republican christianists don’t remember that part of their “holy” books!
HeartlandLiberal
Zandar, had no idea you were based in Kentucky. My sympathies. But then I am just north of you in South Central Indiana. Can you see mobile vegetable Gov. Pence? I knew you could.
But I console myself constantly that it could be worse for both of us. I was born in Alabama nearly 70 years ago, left in 1969.
Trust me. It COULD be worse.
Paul in KY
@J R in WV: I think for selfish millionaire reasons, I can see why one might vote Repub. He’s not concerned with growing the economy & all that. He’s got a huge pile of money & wants it taxed at lowest rate possible. Also wants his investment income taxed at that BS 15% rate.
All that is more likely to happen when Repubs are in office.