Bulletin: Fox's GOP debate was watched by 24 million viewers on Thursday — highest-rated primary debate in history
— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) August 7, 2015
– Game of Thrones season finale: 8.11 million
- Walking Dead season finale: 15.8 million
- Fox News GOP debate: 24 million
— Charlie Spiering (@charliespiering) August 7, 2015
Since I wondered about the numbers, earlier this morning. The evening news mentioned the audience was “bigger than that for the World Series,” but gave no stats. (Coincidentally, since New Hampshire is in our media market, I also saw my first Ben Carson ad — Babies are adorable, so vote for me! Seriously. Poor man is toast.)
We may finally have found last night’s target market, though. Former restaurant reviewer and professional sadsack Frank Bruni:
… On Thursday night in Cleveland, the Fox News moderators did what only Fox News moderators could have done, because the representatives of any other network would have been accused of pro-Democratic partisanship.
They took each of the 10 Republicans onstage to task. They held each of them to account. They made each address the most prominent blemishes on his record, the most profound apprehensions that voters feel about him, the greatest vulnerability that he has.
It was riveting. It was admirable. It compels me to write a cluster of words I never imagined writing: hooray for Fox News…
But Fox accomplished something important. It prevented the Republican contenders from relying on sound bites and hewing to scripts that say less about their talents and more about the labors of their well-paid handlers…
I cede the rebuttal to Professor Krugman, “From Trump on Down, the Republicans Can’t Be Serious“:
This was, according to many commentators, going to be the election cycle Republicans got to show off their “deep bench.” The race for the nomination would include experienced governors like Jeb Bush and Scott Walker, fresh thinkers like Rand Paul, and attractive new players like Marco Rubio. Instead, however, Donald Trump leads the field by a wide margin. What happened?
The answer, according to many of those who didn’t see it coming, is gullibility: People can’t tell the difference between someone who sounds as if he knows what he’s talking about and someone who is actually serious about the issues. And for sure there’s a lot of gullibility out there. But if you ask me, the pundits have been at least as gullible as the public, and still are.
For while it’s true that Mr. Trump is, fundamentally, an absurd figure, so are his rivals. If you pay attention to what any one of them is actually saying, as opposed to how he says it, you discover incoherence and extremism every bit as bad as anything Mr. Trump has to offer. And that’s not an accident: Talking nonsense is what you have to do to get anywhere in today’s Republican Party…
…[W]hile media puff pieces have portrayed Mr. Trump’s rivals as serious men — Jeb the moderate, Rand the original thinker, Marco the face of a new generation — their supposed seriousness is all surface. Judge them by positions as opposed to image, and what you have is a lineup of cranks. And as I said, this is no accident.
It has long been obvious that the conventions of political reporting and political commentary make it almost impossible to say the obvious — namely, that one of our two major parties has gone off the deep end… Until now, however, leading Republicans have generally tried to preserve a facade of respectability, helping the news media to maintain the pretense that it was dealing with a normal political party. What distinguishes Mr. Trump is not so much his positions as it is his lack of interest in maintaining appearances. And it turns out that the party’s base, which demands extremist positions, also prefers those positions delivered straight. Why is anyone surprised?…
Can Mr. Trump actually win the nomination? I have no idea. But even if he is eventually pushed aside, pay no attention to all the analyses you will read declaring a return to normal politics. That’s not going to happen; normal politics left the G.O.P. a long time ago. At most, we’ll see a return to normal hypocrisy, the kind that cloaks radical policies and contempt for evidence in conventional-sounding rhetoric. And that won’t be an improvement.
For a historical comparison, @brianstelter: 73 million watched the #Beatles 02/09/64 on Ed Sullivan vs. 24 million at the #GOPDebate.
— Jeffrey Guterman (@JeffreyGuterman) August 7, 2015
Fox execs obviously thrilled. And/but so are Fox's competitors. CNN is already promoting "the sequel" — the Sept. 16 debate in Cali.
— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) August 7, 2015
schrodinger's cat
I will pay attention to this circus after the first votes are cast.
Gimlet
Is there a poll that indicates when the voter locks in his/her vote for the duration?
JPL
If CNN allowed the candidates to carry guns, which is their second amendment right, it would draw a bigger audience than FOX. I can just imagine our very, own Doug cheering for Trump.
Morzer
I thought Saladin Ahmed summed up the GOP debate pretty well:
For those who don’t know Saladin Ahmed, he is a fantasy writer (and a pretty good one).
http://www.saladinahmed.com/wordpress/the-books
Another Holocene Human
I want to know what a real poll says about Trump’s bump or not from this farce. All the wingnut bilge sites’ polls were loving Trump today but who knows if that’s real or not.
I know the Trumpening was on in the lounge where I was at last night, full of The Donald’s extremely questionable coif. Not too many avid viewers I think, but the exposure was there. It was reality TV gold.
Morzer
And some rather good news:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/03/ebola-vaccine-trials-diseases?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Right to Rise
Last night Jeb got himself a running mate.
A person with a strong moral compass who has endured great hardship. A person with intelligence, wit, and just a bit of aggression. A person who can be a true attack dog against Billary while Jeb remains above the fray.
This person’s name is Carly Fiorina.
Jeb/Carly ’15.
JPL
@Right to Rise: What a great idea. A person who not only got fired from her position but paid a fine for selling printers through a third party to IRAN while as their executive.
Wahoo.. We are saved.
It’s the Reagan years all over again.
tom
But how many of those 24 million were watching just to see a train wreck?
Gimlet
@Right to Rise:
Jeb? Was he at the earlier debate?
NonyNony
As I’ve said elsewhere – Fox got what it wanted. It wanted high ratings and Trump brought the ratings gold for them. Now they’ll be able to charge even more for the next debate. As long as Trump is still in the running.
Do you see the quandry that Fox is in now? They stand to make a lot of money so long as Trump stays in the race. Meanwhile the Republican Party Establishment stands to be hurt quite a bit so long as Trump stays in the race.
It’s a regular old Prisoner’s Dilemma there. Or a Sophie’s Choice. Or something. I dunno – whatever it is I’m betting that CNN will be hoping that Trump stays in the race long enough for them to grab a slice of that sweet, sweet advertising money next month (though it’s a debate being “moderated” by Hugh Hewitt and Jake Tapper a the fucking Reagan Library. There’s no way THAT debate is nearly as contentious or interesting as the one that had Megyn Kelly asking questions. And yes I know how that sounds…)
SiubhanDuinne
@Right to Rise:
¡Carly!
Morzer
@Gimlet:
He hovered over them like a self-pitying blimp.
Morzer
@SiubhanDuinne:
Wake up, demonsheeple!
bago
@JPL: Oh no, IRAN might be able to write things down!
NonyNony
@JPL:
Right To Rise – parody troll, Republican moron, or advanced AI spambot run amok stringing together words without understanding their meaning? Poe’s Law is a harsh mistress.
(The FSM does not love me enough for Fiorina to end up on the VP slot on anyone’s ticket. You thought the swiftboat ads were ugly? Imagine a few of the thousands of folks she laid off at HP describing what an incompetent she was…)
Gimlet
@Morzer:
Is Carly the one someone said they found when they dragged a dollar bill through a trailer park?
Roger Moore
@NonyNony:
Paid political troll. I don’t think they’re getting their money’s worth.
Right to Rise
@Gimlet:
Keep recycling used-up insults from the ’90s. But Jeb/Carly will be a dynamic ticket. They are both great fundraisers. One has success in the public sector, the other in the private sector. Carly can be the ‘attack dog’ against Hillary, calling out her baseless lies and obfuscations.
Benw
@Right to Rise: you didn’t even get the YEAR right!
SANDERS 2016
Morzer
@NonyNony:
And then there is the immortal ad involving the red-eyed sheep….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Fiorina is a great fit for the fine old Bush family tradition of failing up. But I doubt Barbara would want to have her in the dining room.
mai naem mobile
Hpw come there’s never been a movie about Dr.Francis Kelsey. Shit they made a movie about Erin Brockovich. The story sounds like a Hollywood kind of blockbuster.
wasabi gasp
– The Mystery of Al Capone’s Vaults: 30 million
Morzer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“In future, Ms Fiorina, I would be greatly commodified if you was to use the rear entrance appropriate to menials and tradespersons.”
MattF
Open thread, so I’ll note that today’s the day that the ‘David Brooks, Philosopher’ simulacrum shed its skin and the ‘David Brooks, Neocon’ who lurks inside bared its teeth. No link, but it should not be a surprise.
Gimlet
@Right to Rise:
Still here?
I thought you were on a tight time schedule, had to post and run.
Mandalay
@Gimlet:
I have no admiration for Fiorina, but that is not a cool thing to say.
You are demeaning yourself, and attacking women rather than Fiorina, by posting that.
srv
Trump: $10 BILLION
Krugman: $2.5 Million
And Trump is an ‘absurd’ figure?
Americans know the difference, and they turned out in droves last night.
burnspbesq
@Right to Rise:
Fiorina? Success? Try that theory out on a HP shareholder, and see what reaction you get.
Morzer
@MattF:
It sounds just like the GOP.
Gimlet
@Mandalay:
It pretty specifically says “Carly” not “all women” and implies greed.
Iowa Old Lady
@Morzer: I’m in the acknowledgements for Saladin’s book. :-)
Right to Rise
@burnspbesq:
Carly didn’t always make the most popular decisions at HP, but she made necessary ones. Some voices from the past wanted to run HP as though this were the 20th Century, but Carly envisioned a true 21st Century company. Under Carly, HP doubled revenues, more than quadrupled its growth rate, tripled the rate of innovation.
Cash-flow was quadrupled.
And with 11 patents a day (the leader in Silicon Valley) HP moved from 28th to 11th largest company in the United States.
NonyNony
@srv:
Um, wut?
That one’s going to need a bit more unpacking srv. Your trolling is supposed to make people angry, not make them wonder what the hell you’re talking about.
Morzer
@srv:
Trump: 3 bankruptcies
Krugman: 0 bankruptcies
Now, tell us which one is the responsible, trustworthy adult in the room and you can go back to driving the short bus over your own toes.
Morzer
@Iowa Old Lady:
Well done, ma’am!
RK
Don’t think those supporting Trump are really gullible but rather strongly anti-DC and authoritarian. They want an outsider strong man.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Morzer: that reminds me of how even the dimmest or most wild-eyed FoxBot, from Hasselbeck to Bolton, always seems to remember to include the word “state” when discussing Iran’s support of terrorism, so we don’t have to talk about the Saudi royal family.
Morzer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
We also don’t have to talk about the embarrassing array of white male domestic terrorists in the USA.
Turgidson
@Right to Rise: this has to be DougJ
JPL
@Right to Rise: How much did they make selling printer to IRAN? She is tough because she knows her way around sanctions.
trollhattan
@Gimlet:
Does іJEB! actually exist? He seems like a Roomba or something.
trollhattan
@Turgidson:
I’m thinkin’ perhaps….
Morzer
@Turgidson:
The lunatic, the lover and the poet/Are of imagination all Compaq’d….
Morzer
@trollhattan:
More like a Pocari Sweat.
Jeffro
@Right to Rise: Is this Bill Kristol? Because neither of those two are going to be on the Republican ticket come next summer.
Random Dude
@Right to Rise: Why did the board fire her, then?
Turgidson
@Jeffro:
If it was Bloody Bill WRONG Kristol there’d be some creepy warmongering nonsense in each post.
Morzer
@Random Dude:
They were afraid of her revolutionary genius. Totes obvs, really.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise:
Twenty-one million dollar bribe just to fvcking leave. And pray tell, what did the HP stock do the very day she was shitcanned (will let you google this one, Skippy).
Just One More Canuck
@Gimlet: @Mandalay: James Carville said it about either Paula Jones or Gennifer Flowers (he said a ‘hundred dollar bill’)
KG
Not to derail the conversation, but why is it that we refer to men by their last name and women by their first? Not just in politics, but in sports as well – first noticed it when people were talking about Ronda Rousey, she was almost always referred to as Ronda rather than Rousey. I can’t think of a male athlete that gets referred to by his first name only – it’s either last name or nickname.
And I can understand calling Clinton by her first name because of her husband. But otherwise?
trollhattan
@Morzer:
Heh. I have a bottle at the house to prove it exists. The label is a bit of a disappointment, but there it is.
NotMax
Incidentally, if one looks at the adults 25-54, that number was 7.9 million. As with everything on that network, the vast bulk of the audience skewed elder to eldest.
e
@KG: MIchael. Kobe. Hakeem. kareem.
Fedor. Shogun.
there are some
Jeffro
@Turgidson: Anyone promoting Jeb! is automatically a creepy warmonger full of nonsense by default.
Btw has anyone in the media asked W about his bro’s about-face last night on the Iraq War yet? (Much less called out Jeb! on what he called “faulty intelligence” vs. “…the facts being fixed around the policy”, i.e., lying??!?)
Mandalay
@Gimlet:
You truly don’t get it? If you are genuinely baffled, ask yourself:
– What was the original context for your parody?
– Do you think the comment could be used against a man? If not, why not?
Either way, stop posting comments like that.
KG
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: except since Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, the Saudi royal family is the state
Jeffro
@NotMax: That’s a great point (seriously) – “half of all people still alive above age 54 tuned in last night plus a smattering of others”
Well, it was a Fox-sponsored debate…
Baud
@KG:
I usually refer to Bernie as Bernie.
JPL
@trollhattan: You just don’t understand. The Bush economy was ready to jump back if Obama hadn’t stepped in. HP would have recovered sooner, with Carly at the helm. They didn’t allow enough time for her ideas to work.
easy, huh
NotMax
@KG
Shaq? LeBron? The Babe (Ruth)?
KG
@e: fair enough, though Shogun is a nickname. Just seems to happen a lot more with women than with men
Morzer
@trollhattan:
It’s just so Jeb, though. Someone, somewhere, decided that selling a drink named Sweat was just the coolest thing and the American market would lap it up.
I saw it in the local supermarket here in Seoul, along with a range of beers that claim to be products of a “German noble hop” and “Bottom Fermentation”.
the Conster
@MattF:
Trump, Schumer and Brooks all showed their ass today. Once these things are seen, they cannot be unseen.
ETA: for those not on twitter, Trump said that during the debate Megyn Kelly was bleeding from her eyes and probably from somewhere else. IOW, Megyn Kelly was on the rag – and now twitter is blowing up. Very classy.
burnspbesq
@Right to Rise:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/carly-fiorina-s-record-at-hewlett-packard–by-the-numbers-184234108.html
You’re not fooling anyone, jackass.
Right to Rise
@Jeffro:
Either Jeb, or Carly, will be on the ticket.
I guarantee it, to borrow the words of Broadway Joe.
JPL
@Right to Rise: You really need to sign on to another campaign, or plan on writing a book like Nicole Wallace did.
Benw
I’m listening to Queensryche’s “Empire” and drinking a cold Foster’s. I’m in a good mood.
schrodinger's cat
@MattF: His son is an IDF soldier, so is David Brooks an Israeli citizen too?
Right to Rise
@Benw:
‘Australian for Pisswater’.
trollhattan
@Right to Rise:
May the libs book it, please?
Morzer
@Right to Rise:
Well, you certainly know how to handle one part of a charm offensive.
burnspbesq
Boy, this is fun.
Mets come from behind with two in the top of the ninth. Rays leave the tying run at second.
Storen, demoted from closer to eighth-inning guy, gives up a grand slam. Harper strikes out with the tying run on base.
Mets lead by 2 ½.
Jeffro
@Right to Rise:
That sounds about right…you’ll look about as coherent as Broadway Joe did during that Suzy Kolber interview come Election Day.
trollhattan
@JPL:
If Carly(tm) had stayed my laptop motherboard video would never have crapped out and I’d not have had to THROW IT AWAY!
I blame Obama (then a senator).
Right to Rise
@Morzer:
I drink only the best. I have zero tolerance for pisswater beer.
I prefer either DFH 90 Minute IPA, or Victory Golden Monkey. But whatever it is I don’t want some macro loser swill.
Myiq2xu
The first thing that turned me off about Obama was his creepy crazed cult followers. The Stormtrumpers are giving me deja vu all over again.
Morzer
@Right to Rise:
I can see that you would spend a lot of time drinking pisswater.
Heliopause
Anybody read Nate Silver today again trashing Trump? Seriously, Trump’s in his head. It’s like Ali and Foreman in Zaire. If Silver pens a couple more of these in the coming days I expect Trump to be polling at 60 or 70% by next Friday. If anybody at 538 is reading this, please, slip some decaf into Nate’s mug or something. He really needs to settle down.
Benw
@Right to Rise: holy crap, that’s the first normal comment you’ve made on this site! Anyway, try this on for size, you chizzwozzer: “that’s not a knife, THIS is a knife!”
rikyrah
I’m still sad about Forever’s cancellation. I can’t quite delete the finale from the DVR
GregB
Does anyone have the stats on the viewers for last episodes of Golden Girls or Matlock?
lgerard
@burnspbesq:
Lets go Mets!
Culture of Truth
70 million tuned on the radio to the second Joe Louis v Max Schmeling fight.
Groucho48
Yes, Fox asked tough questions. But, they then allowed the candidates to lie, equivocate, bluster, etc in response and Fox would rarely ask the logical follow up questions or casually mention that the candidate had just lied 8 times in 3 sentences.
They had Fiorina on Tweety’s show and she just unpacked a whole passel of talking points/lies without taking a breath. Kind of awesome in its own, perverted way. Tweety tried talking over her and tried pointing out the lies, but, she just kept steamrolling.
lgerard
One thing that happened during the debate that didn’t seem to get much attention
Trump announcing that he was the only one on the stage who opposed the Iraq War.
I don’t actually remember him opposing it very loudly, but I would love to hear him say this more often.
Also, I don’t think Trump’s “no fat chicks” policy will be very popular among Republican voters in the south.
Jay C
@burnspbesq:
Thanks,. burns: best news I’ve heard all night.
Jay C
(incorrigible Mets fan)
JPL
@Heliopause: As entertaining as Trump is, he is out of control. His comment about Kelly and the blood and her eyes and blood coming out ….whatever was way over the line. I love the fact that GOP is in disarray but he’s disgusting.
Baud
@JPL:
Remember when Sarah Palin winking during the debate was over the line?
So long ago.
Redshift
@JPL:
Hey, he was already doing that last night! (Along with most of the crowd at the bar.)
JPL
@Baud: There is no peak wingnut and that was a lie fed to us.
Baud
@JPL:
I can’t wait to see what’s in store in post-Trump America.
Redshift
@Another Holocene Human: Real polls take three days. So look for them on Monday; anyone touting one before then is just doing spin.
JPL
@Baud: Unfortunately, Charles Dickens isn’t around to write about it.
sinclair lewis would roll over in his grave, if he knew what was happening.
Redshift
@tom:
A lot, if our experience last night in DC is any indicator. The bar we were at was seriously packed (Elizabelle got there late and couldn’t even squeeze in the door.) It was pretty obvious that nearly everyone was there to see the Trump train wreck and gasp in horror at the others.
Mike E
@Culture of Truth: The FDR fireside chats reached a peak of 70% of the US listening audience. Too.
Heliopause
@JPL:
What’s the difference between Trump calling Rosie O’Donnell a fat pig and the rest of those fuckers fighting a war against Planned Parenthood? I’ll tell you: Trump’s just saying words and the rest of them are hurting millions of real people in the real world.
Baud
@JPL:
SectionH
@trollhattan:
I just blew cider out my nose.
This needs to be a rotating thingy.
Suzanne
I’m about to lay waste to a plate of Pakistani food, but I want to savor the fucking freak show that was last night.
SectionH
@trollhattan: I don’t actually care what the stock did. I know what HP’s nosedive from having actual good products to being shit in its printers and outsourcing worse shit for its ink nearly did to our business. And I know when that happened.
We got direct testimony about the lies about their ink that the sellers were expected to tell to customers who’d been screwed over.
Never mind, we went to Epson, got better printers and fabulously better inks, so we didn’t Quite get driven out of business, but it was no thanks to Fiorina.
Suzanne
I think my biggest WTF moment was when Mike Fuckabee turned a question about payroll taxation and Social Security into a rage-gasm toward hookers and pimps.
Roger Moore
@Heliopause:
Yes, and I find it tremendously disappointing, because he’s degrading into Yet Another Pundit. The thing that made his work so exciting when he started was that he was relying primarily on data, and most of his writing was explaining the data and his methods. His stuff on Trump is almost the opposite. He’s taking a tiny sliver of data and using it to justify a lot of pontificating. If I want that, I can get it from a lot of pontificators who are better writers.
Roger Moore
@Heliopause:
Yes, and I’m most disappointed in him. Unlike his earlier work, where he was data driven and most of his writing was explaining the data and his methodology, he’s just spouting his personal opinion and searching for facts to support his prejudice. It’s the worst kind of pundit writing and exactly what 538 was supposed to avoid.
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
Thanks for this. I knew it all as my brother was an exec with Compaq in Houston – he got a real actual pat on the back at a celebratory dinner from Ms Fiorina, and then got laid off 2 or 3 weeks later.
But it’s great to see the numbers in a real article!
Typical for her, I believe. Help her out a great deal, then get snake bit.
cmorenc
…yes, but a significant portion of those were democrats and progressives who viewed it for the irresistible entertainment of watching a clown-car demolition derby.
Anne Laurie
@KG:
Not to downplay the sexism angle, but — at least until recently — there was more diversity in women’s first names. Hillary and Carly (short for Carleton) are more likely to be distinct than Scott or George. Or John, who uses a nickname (JEB!).
Anne Laurie
@rikyrah:
That makes three of us (my Spousal Unit loved the show, too). Wish Amazon would release it on DVD — we don’t have a DVR, and I’m too old to trust “cloud” storage for stuff I want to keep… forever.
Roger Moore
@Anne Laurie:
There’s also the whole thing about women adopting their husbands’ names when they get married. That means that a woman’s first name has been a more stable identifier for her than her last name. Even for a woman who isn’t likely to change her last name any time soon, that still has an impact on what we’re likely to call her.
wuzzat
@cmorenc: Yup. James Cameron’s Titanic sold about 450 million tickets, but we all knew that boat was gonna sink.
Anne Laurie
@Suzanne: IKNORITE?!?… cuz in Pastor Huxsterbee’s world, if the Bad Folk (hookers & pimps & drug dealers) would only pay their (sales) taxes, then the Good Folk (like Mike & the more upscale members of his flock) could totally declare religious exemptions on their entire incomes, just for being good examples to the rest of us fallen sinners!
sukabi
@tom: all but 27%
Origuy
In her 2010 Senate race, Fiorina raised 21 million, but 5 million of that was her own money. Source She raised 20 million for herself by getting fired from HP.
I was at Compaq when HP bought it out. I’m still at HP. She isn’t.
Peale
I’m actually excited. I received my first screener today, for a film that I’m guessing is having trouble finding reviewers in the U.S.. But so what? I actually feel like a real critic! Like someone besides my mother thinks a good opinion from me might matter.
Anne Laurie
@Peale: Mazel tov! (Does it include zombies and/or violent sociopaths?)
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Morzer: That should be quoted. Or tweeted. Or both.
Another Holocene Human
@JPL: But she has Bibi’s cell phone number.
Litmus. Test.
Another Holocene Human
@Groucho48: Gish Gallop.
blueskies
@KG:
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing, but…
Jeb!
The Donald
Bernie
Bill (plenty of people referred to him as Bill)
Ike
As to your specific example of “Carly”:
1. Not that many refer to her at all, whether by first, last, or nick name
2. Fiorianianaona is hard to remember, hard to spell, and hard to pronounce from some people.
AxelFoley
@Myiq2xu: LOL, new troll I see.