Fox News lowers bar for 5pm GOP debate, ensuring Graham, Fiorina, Pataki get in: http://t.co/v00sEuEWhi
— Michael Calderone (@mlcalderone) July 29, 2015
It would be ironic if the prime-time GOP debate turns into a cringey mudfest and the runner-up debate proves substantive and decorous.
— Nick Confessore (@nickconfessore) July 28, 2015
The carnival can’t go on forever (can it?) but while it lasts I’m gonna enjoy every pratfall and sad trombone. Gabriel Sherman, in NYMag, on “The Roger Ailes Primary“:
At the start of his career, not long after he helped Richard Nixon win the 1968 election, Roger Ailes boasted to a reporter that television would one day replace the political party as the most powerful force in American politics. If there is any doubt that the Fox News founder has largely made that prediction come true, it should be erased by the panic that next week’s Fox debate is stoking inside the GOP. In a year that features the largest primary field in modern history — not to mention Donald Trump as a front-runner — campaign strategists worry that Ailes’s debate, which is likely to attract the biggest audience in cable-news history, could define the race more than five months before the first votes are cast.
As everyone knows by now, Fox has said that only 10 of the 17 declared candidates will be allowed onstage for the prime-time debate… Contenders for each event will be selected on August 4 from an average of five national polls chosen by Fox. But which polls the network will use remains an open question and a source of controversy.
The candidates with the most on the line are Rick Perry and John Kasich. As things stand now, both are in contention to land the tenth and final prime-time spot, depending on which polls are averaged…
Perry now out of the debate after weeks branding himself as the anti-Trump candidate. I'm sure Trump will be too polite to mention this.
— Benjy Sarlin (@BenjySarlin) July 30, 2015
… For the campaigns that do make prime time, there’s another wild card: Trump. Fox told campaigns this week that the candidates will be lined up onstage according to their poll numbers, with the leader in the center and the others to his left and right. That means if current numbers hold, Trump will be in the center flanked by Jeb Bush and Scott Walker. “There’s a lot of nervousness about where he’s going to be placed and who will be next to him,” one adviser said. In any normal debate, candidates would obviously fight to be in the middle, but being center stage next to Trump could be as much of a liability as an advantage. Who knows what he might do? “It’s almost like you don’t want to be too close,” one campaign adviser says, “in case he self-combusts.”…
Like what, starting a 3 item list he can't finish? pic.twitter.com/BnHoBQJxPh
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) July 30, 2015
The NYTimes is visibly torn between its big-money hometown boosterism and its repugnance at the outer-borough guy’s antics — “Stakes for Donald Trump in First G.O.P. Debate (in a Word): Huge“:
The most pressing question that Donald J. Trump could face next week in the first debate of the 2016 presidential race may not be about Iran or immigration, but this: Can he deploy enough adjectives (“huge!”), superlatives (“the worst!”) and invectives (“loser!”) for him to use up his time without being challenged successfully on the substance of policy?…
In a 90-minute debate with 10 candidates, Mr. Trump’s speaking time is unlikely to reach 10 minutes, even with rebuttals, leaving little time for him to delve into policy details. But he could be pressed to do more than trash the Iran nuclear deal or the Obama administration’s foreign policy in broad terms, or claim he has a secret plan to defeat the Islamic State, as he has done so far.
“He’s gotten away with just blustery criticisms and sweeping generalizations until now,” Kevin Madden, a Republican strategist who advised Mitt Romney in 2012, said in an email. “It will be interesting to see if the Fox moderators, who are trusted validators among Republican primary voters, force him to provide more specifics on important policy issues.”
“He can’t just complain about the media to a Republican audience when it’s Bret Baier asking the question,” he said, referring to a Fox News anchor…
As the NYC natives would say: Wanna bet?
Wondering if Trump's campaign will prompt Republicans to rethink their support for court rulings allowing unlimited campaign self-financing.
— Kenneth P. Vogel (@kenvogel) July 27, 2015
Jim Newell, in Salon, on “Paying the Debate Tax“:
… [T]he people who run Fox News are geniuses. What did they get by instituting these caps? Not just constant appearances from the candidates themselves in their desperate quests for exposure, but now feedback in the form of actual money, too. Chris Christie is forking over 250-large to Fox News in ad revenue, for the purpose of securing a dais onstage during Donald Trump’s 90-minute monologue in Cleveland. He probably will not be the last candidate to make the last such purchase, and there will be more and more capped debates forthcoming.
More broadly, though, consider what’s happening here. A candidate who will not have that much official campaign money is having to make a national ad buy on Fox News in the middle of summer 2015. What are his other options? He could play with power tools like another oxygen-deprived candidate, Rand Paul, has been doing. He could subject himself to embarrassing questions with any media outlet who’ll take him, like Rick Santorum. He could deploy the famous campaign move of pretending to stop campaigning, as Bobby Jindal has done. He could pick a fight with Donald Trump, or make a point of not picking a fight with Donald Trump.
Most of the candidates cheered the elimination of this year’s Iowa straw poll, a traditional mid-summer means of culling the field that recently stopped serving as an accurate predictor of grass-roots organizing ability. As Mike Huckabee explained his decision not to participate — before the Iowa GOP killed the thing altogether — the Iowa straw poll served as a tax on the lower-tier candidates: They would be forced to exhaust their modest resources for the straw poll, while the well-funded, establishment candidates didn’t even bother contending.
The Iowa straw poll tax has been eliminated and replaced by the debate tax. It’s spent either directly from campaign war chests, in Christie’s case, or in various other degradations of dignity or time in New York’s Fox News studios instead of in Iowa or New Hampshire. I can see why the debate caps would upset them. On the other hand, not everyone gets to be president!
Well this campaign is going well.
http://t.co/RU1yej7NKp pic.twitter.com/PrcmoLnRHD
— Nick Confessore (@nickconfessore) July 30, 2015
redshirt
Master Blaster runs Bartertown!
Applejinx
Trump is going to be SO HAPPY. He will have SO much fun. I almost want to watch it.
Mustang Bobby
I’m going to be up in Canada when the debate goes on, but not to be outdone, there’s going to be a debate among candidates up there for their upcoming election in October. Fortunately I have theatre tickets that night.
Central Planning
My inner teenager wants to eliminate wants to eliminate 4 words from the title of the Politico piece about Trump appointing Palin to a cabinet post… It would now say “Donald Trump says he’d tap Sarah Palin…”
I wasn’t originally going to be home for the debates. I think I will have to TiVo them now. I can’t even begin to imagine how they will turn out.
MattF
The debate has turned into a ‘very special’ episode of FOX News. But the screenwriter may turn out to be The Donald.
I can’t see Jeb! or Walker coming out ahead. Maybe if they hide under the lectern.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Mustang Bobby: I notice you’re getting ready for your Canada trip by adopting the native spelling conditions! Will you be stopping by my neighborhood on your way back to Miami?
It’s too early for Omnes, so go ahead and ask me about my semicolon! It appears I have a surfeit of exclamation points for reasons that escape me.
OzarkHillbilly
I’ll just wait for the high (low) lights.
Valdivia
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): semicolon comment for the win :)
Is there a chance one of the front pagers can post a call for action once a week the next few weeks to remind us that the forces on the other side will be burning the phones of congressmen and representatives about the Iran deal? It matters too much to leave this to be another summer of hate that sinks a historic deal.
David Koch
I just love watching Halperin and mourning blow squirm and panic over the plebs eating up the Trumpmentum.
ThresherK (GPad)
We are on vacation on Cape Cod, living the semi-luxury life. That means a motel with an ice machine, wi fi, and good housekeeping, and leaving on Friday when the throngs of people are arriving.
I was so on vacation I thought I would miss a debate if I stayed out tonight.
Remind me to be somewhere away from civilization in a week’s time.
JGabriel
So Trump can be a winner in the GOP debate if he doesn’t melt down or blow-up?
Talk about stooping low to conquer. That’s such a low fucking bar, it might as well be buried.
Tommy
@JGabriel: I’ve come to think the things we dislike so much about Trump are exactly what people who support him like.
Mustang Bobby
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I’ve always spelled “theatre” that way;
(See what I did there?)
I will be flying directly from Miami to Toronto and back again. I may be in your area around the holidays in December.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Mustang Bobby: I saw! And frankly suspected you’ve always spelled it that way. Please look me up if you get up here for any sort of holiday.
My semicolon.
JGabriel
Politico:
What, no long-form birth certificate?
How can we know for sure that any of these guys are really and truly natural-born American citizens?
That Cruz guy, for instance – he was definitely born in Canada. And he has a commie dad who fought with Castro!
BillinGlendaleCA
I just turned off Morning Joe. I learned two things: Hillary is in deep trouble and denial cause no on trusts her and Joe has no conception how an email server works; and Joe thinks that we can bomb Iran and bring their leaders out for war crime trials(easy, peasy). I guess the Republicans learned absolutely NOTHING from George’s excellent mid-east adventure.
JGabriel
@Tommy: Whatever they think will piss off liberals, updated daily. (™Clem)
Gimlet
It had to happen, and it’s not Florida.
A Kentucky man shot down an $1,800 drone hovering over his sunbathing daughter and was then arrested and charged with first degree criminal mischief and first-degree wanton endangerment.
The owner of the drone claims he was only trying to take pictures of a friend’s house.
“I went and got my shotgun and I said, ‘I’m not going to do anything unless it’s directly over my property,’ ” Mr. Merideth said.
Mr. Merideth said four men tried to confront him after the drone was shot out of the sky. “I had my 40 mm [sic] Glock on me and they started toward me and I told them, ‘If you cross my sidewalk, there’s gonna be another shooting,’ ”
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
As the saying goes:
George’s excellent mid-east adventure cannot fail, it can only BE failed.
(And apologies for the doubled semi-colon. Although I have no idea what the Bobby/Bella in-joke is.)
SFAW
@JGabriel:
You mean Cleek? Or were you riffing on Firesign?
Tommy
@Gimlet: Oh it is going to get way worse. I get the daily email from a geeky site called StackSocial with their sale items. Drones are getting well under $500. More and more people are going to have them and no telling what they are going to use them for.
SFAW
@Gimlet:
Just waiting for the arrival of the Ree Mind.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Hells bells, we can’t even bring our own war criminals to trial.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tommy: I want a drone for Christmas.
Tommy
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well get the emails from StackSocial. They seem to have them almost weekly for prices often under $200.
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: I think old Joe spent too much time in the Florida sun.
Elizabelle
AP reporting Zimbabwe hoping to extradite that awful dentist to face charges.
May justice be done for poor Cecil.
Wonder if candidates’ position on big game trophy hunting might be a good question for the Fox-Trump debate next week. Involves weapons, stewarding the environment, and topic would piss libtards off .
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I know it’s only July, but will this do?
Tommy
@BillinGlendaleCA: How about it. As I keep saying here Iran isn’t some backwards third world nation. Iraqi was a clusterfuck I can’t even wrap my mind around what trying to bomb/invade Iran would be like.
redshirt
@Tommy: Hey Tommy, I challenge you to make a single post that doesn’t reference yourself. GO!
Edit: You almost did it before I asked! Congrats!
SFAW
@Elizabelle:
I don’t think the thing on top of Trump’s head qualifies as “big” game, but he still might consider the topic a shot across his bow (so to speak).
Gimlet
@BillinGlendaleCA:
“He’s making a list, And checking it twice;…”
Elizabelle
@BillinGlendaleCA: Awoke to find Morning Joe on and Heileman (?) and he were discussing how deeply untrustworthy HRC is. Off goes the TV.
The constant character-bashing makes me mad. It’s all they’ve got. Steels me to support her. (thinking the Planned Parenthood attack videos will backfire too. Just tie the donated tissue to medical research and the minimal cost of transferring it.)
SFAW
@redshirt:
Since when did you become such a heartless bastard? Might as well try to get the rivers to flow backwards.
Gimlet
For Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, there’s something awkward about the Harley-Davidson motorcycles that he has been posing on at presidential campaign stops: each one bears a sticker on its frame that reads “Union made in the USA.”
Tommy
@Elizabelle: I don’t think people understand how common stuff like this is. Back in grad school my best friend, well his girlfriend’s father was a senior executive at Exon. Best I could tell he kind of just flew around the world killing stuff and mounting their heads on his walls.
Sherparick
@BillinGlendaleCA: For Republicans like Joe, people in the third world love us all the more when we bomb them. After they pick the bits and pieces of what use to be their children, wives, husbands, and/or borthers and sisters, the survivors gather around and sing God Bless America for “FREEDOM.”
Who does Joe hang out with besides his crew on Morning Joe? It is the same group of right-wing head fudge managers and necons on the right wing-wing welfare circuit who have been wrong about everything the last 30 years. So when we hear Joe, we are hearing what sociopathic wing of the .1% who rule us are thinking at the moment.
NorthLeft12
@Mustang Bobby: The Canadian debates are generally pretty dull. Only four [or is it three?] leaders discussing policy and qualifications and recent history with the odd mild mud slinging.
I find them pretty worthwhile to watch, although I really hate to watch the smug mug of our current PM spreading his fear and paranoia about Iran, ISIS, Russia, and terrorists in general. As if we can do much about those problems half a world away besides bluster and meekly follow in the wake of the US and Israel.
TheMightyTrowel
OT because people need a laugh and this is also really cool research: a certain, shall we say, lack of pickiness in sexual partners (in particular as regards their species and whether or not it happens to be the same as our own) seems to have had some big effects on how H. sapiens evolved and been rather advantageous for our ability to thrive.
NorthLeft12
@JGabriel: Personally, I was thinking that blowing up and melting down is exactly how he would win the debate.
It’s worked for him so far.
Tommy
@redshirt: I won’t take the bait other than to say I reference myself and my experiences because I think it brings context to what I am saying. Sorry if this upsets you.
Gimlet
@Elizabelle: Wonder if candidates’ position on big game trophy hunting might be a good question for the Fox-Trump debate next week. Involves weapons, stewarding the environment, and topic would piss libtards off .
Flash to Trump’s study with replicas of the heads of Walker, Bush and McCain on informative plaques arranged on the wall behind Trump’s desk.
SFAW
@NorthLeft12:
Not sure that he’s melted down. Blown up, sure. And the 27-percenters like that shit
SFAW
@Tommy:
“But enough about me … what do you think of me?”
redshirt
@Tommy: Doesn’t upset me in the least and that’s a good answer. Maybe you just need to be made aware this world is not about you 100% of the time.
Bjacques
Try mp will do fine. Any question he gets he’ll dodge in his usual style, and the time limit imposed by this massively overcrowded pie fight guarantees there won’t be time for an followup questions.
SFAW
@Gimlet:
Replicas? Screw that – he ain’t no real man if’n he ain’t got the real things.
SFAW
@redshirt:
Good luck with that.
JGabriel
@SFAW:
Oops. Damn, yes, I meant Cleek.
My apologies to Cleek and everyone else for the confusion.
NorthLeft12
@BillinGlendaleCA: @OzarkHillbilly:
I was going to add that this would be the last thing that the US political class would want to do, as it will set a dangerous precedent…..for the US [and numerous other countries] political class.
BTW, what war crimes exactly are the Iranians accused of? Seems to me they have done pretty much what most governments do…….illegal detention, torture, assassination, etc.
JGabriel
@Tommy:
Peeping and voyeurism, mostly. As a species, we humans pretty much suck.
(Good morning, all! Just call me Mr. Sunshine.)
Gimlet
The College Board has revised AP U.S. history standards in response to complaints last year that it presented “a radically revisionist view of American history that emphasizes negative aspects of our nation’s history while omitting or minimizing positive aspects.”
One of the changes to the framework, which is supposed to give a very condensed outline of what students will learn in the class — not dictate everything that teachers cover — involved adding a section to the course on “American exceptionalism.”
Gimlet
@NorthLeft12: BTW, what war crimes exactly are the Iranians accused of? Seems to me they have done pretty much what most governments do…….illegal detention, torture, assassination, etc.
Any alumni from “The School of the Americas”?
Tommy
@JGabriel: As you said voyeurism. As the story noted it seemed it was looking at his daughter sunbathing. That is creepy on many different levels.
redshirt
@Tommy: This is it! Thank you. :)
redshirt
@SFAW: See? You were wrong, and never forget hope still exists.
JGabriel
@Elizabelle:
Yep, it’ll probably go to one of the campaign newbies, who will express natural human dismay at the killing, and then be shocked when the audience boos him for not being – take your pick – brutal / manly / American / cold-blooded / pure or leader-y enough to be President, and, more importantly, a wussy disgrace to true Conservatives everywhere.
Kay
Does anyone care that the debate promoter is a news agency and they changed the rules to put the Republican Party in a better, more moderate light?
I don’t think it will work but one would think it bears mention, that they’re working with a political Party to buff up the public face of the Party. Kind of calls into question the legitimacy of this “debate”. If they want to run a 2 hour promo for the GOP that’s fine, it’s basically what they do on a daily basis but I’m not sure we should call that a debate, as the term is generally understood by the public.
redshirt
@JGabriel:
See here, Tommy. In case you’re wondering how you could possibly post and NOT refer to yourself constantly. The quoted passage above is a hot take that in no way references the poster – just his/her opinion. Try it yourself, it works!
SFAW
@redshirt:
Happy to be wrong about it.
redshirt
@SFAW:
lol he’s thinking now how to respond and having a hard time with it.
redshirt
“That time I dug up a stump…”
Tommy
@redshirt: Nope. Just don’t see any reason to get in a pissing match.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tommy: One night I was taking pictures of the moon rising. The next day I ran into these two older ladies and one asked why I was taking pictures of her husband’s car. I explained that I was taking pictures of the moon. I should have also informed her that since her husband’s car was visible from the street(or parked there), there’s this thing called Google Street View…
redshirt
@Tommy: Fair enough. Good tidings!
BillinGlendaleCA
If you’re upgrading to Windows 10 from Windows 8(or possibly 7) with Media Center, remove Media Center before you begin the upgrade. Lessons from the trenches.
JPL
The puppets on the stage, will simply be asked to explain how they will change the Obama policies that destroyed our nation. Fox will not allow it to get into a pissing match.
@Tommy: I agree.
Kay
The Salon vote was unanimous too but it’s been 30 days and management has not recognized the vote yet.
The internet figured out they’re working people like everyone else and while “disruption” is super-cool, as a theory, regular people need some security to do their work and live normal lives. Also, breaking news! People get older. :)
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
Fox News’ consistent pro-Republican bias goes back to its founding nearly twenty years ago, doesn’t it? It’s deplorable but pretty much expected of the network by now. At least it isn’t doing the Democratic party debates as well, and screwing over Hillary and Bernie.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: I didn’t see the moon till I parked my car to walk home and get the family for our morning hike. By the time I got home at 6:30 it was gone!
Villago Delenda Est
No one is going to be challenged on the substance of policy. The vermin of the Village have no interest in policy, and that includes the scum of the NYT. This is all about personality, it’s all beauty show., with no talent competition at all. It’s how well you respond to zingers, how you react to invective. No one running for President on the GOP side has the slightest fucking clue how policy works…because their two target audiences, the teabaggers and the vermin of the Village, have no interest at all in policy. The stomping of widdle feet over the Iran deal demonstrates this.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone :)
rikyrah
The New York Times ✔ @nytimes
First @nytimes story on Trump in 1973: “Major Landlord Accused of Antiblack Bias in City” http://nyti.ms/1H8SpAU
not that the folks voting for him will see this as a bad thing.
raven
My boss is retiring today, I sent him this!
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: That story was from last year, but the moon tonight was pretty good and I did take some pics. I just downloaded them from my camera and some look pretty good.
Fred
@Sherparick: It is never what the right wingers are thinking. It is what they want us to believe they are thinking. Or at least what they claim they are thinking and you can’t prove otherwise.
Contrary to their protestations the Right really does know what’s going on (climate change, war on women, institutional racism, rigged voting system, supply side econ and on and on) but if nobody can prove what they are thinking (or even if somebody does, who cares) they can just stick out their jaws and lie all day.
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
I don’t like Hillary, but I do find it amusing that THIS is all they’ve got.
Honestly, it’s all they’ve got.
Pitiful.
Iowa Old Lady
@Villago Delenda Est: How can there be time for policy anyway, with 10 people. By the time they all say their names, time is up.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: I know, I’ve got what too many moon shots and I’m realizing I really don’t need to keep 25 every time I shoot!
Tommy
@BillinGlendaleCA: Drones just seem to be getting smaller and cheaper on a daily basis. I don’t expect privacy if I am in my yard and you can see me from the street. Just looking into a window of a house, well that just gets creepy.
debbie
@rikyrah:
I didn’t move to NYC until 1978, but bias of all kinds was rampant with large and small landlords. They always asked for “key money” (similar to slipping the waiter a $20 for a better table), and they often raised the price for people they wished to discourage from applying.
SFAW
@rikyrah:
Oh, stop it! Everyone knows there’s no more racism in the country.
.
.
.
No more than there was in the previous 200-plus years, that is.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay, I hear what you’re saying, but here’s the issue…..you can’t put a more moderate light on…
Get rid of Planned Parenthood.
Bomb Iran on the first day.
Work longer.
Turn Medicare into a Voucher Program
Let alone what they’ve been saying about immigrants. I’m still back on Jeb’s interview on Univision/Telemundo, where, in essence, he told the 11 million illegals – hey, you can work here, pay taxes, but you, nor your children, will EVER become citizens….take it or leave it…and, because he said it in Spanish, is supposed to make it all better.
They’re mad at Trump for not talking in Luntz-approved dogwhistles….
because the MSM can pretend that the dogwhistles don’t say what they say.
but, there is NOTHING moderate about any one of those mofos.
I find the bare bones honesty of Fox running it all a refreshing change. They’ve been the media arm of the GOP for at least a decade…let’s just not pretend anymore.
MattF
My congressman (Van Hollen) just came out in favor of the Iran deal, I’m pleased to say. I think everyone should, at least, find out where their own congresscritter stands on the issue.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
I don’t know when it started but it seems obvious to me that the only thing they can to do to limit Trump’s influence on the over-all picture, the “face” of the Party as a whole, is to add more people, which is what they’re doing.
The whole FOX News thing is so far down the rabbit hole I’m not sure it matters. Kasich once worked for them and they promoted him for his entire first campaign. They’re so disconnected from any kind of “ethics” or “conflict avoidance” we’re all just play-acting at this point.
The bar is so low! They got all kinds of kudos in 2012 for admitting that Obama won Ohio. This was considered a journalistic ethical high mark. “Look at Meghan as she boldly insists that FOX recognize addition and subtraction!” I mean, Christ. What was the alternative? Report that Romney won? She gets praise for this?
Another Holocene Human
So hot yesterday I got a minor migraine, woke up at oh dark thirty and had to take Goody’s powder. Hoping for the best today because I have a big day but I feel weak all over.
MIL is coming and the toilets look disgusting.
shortstop
@redshirt: you’re gonna call raven and Omnes on this next, right? ‘Cause the practice of nonstop self-reference bugs you equally no matter who’s doing it, yes?
Villago Delenda Est
@rikyrah: They’ve been the media arm of the GOP (and “movement conservatism”–which is basically neofeudalism) from the instant the idea of Faux Noise was conceived and approved.
raven
say what
Botsplainer
@Gimlet:
Local opinion here in the People’s Democratic Socialist Republic of Louisville is running about 5-1 in favor of the guy who shot down the drone; local dudebros are disheartened. Other fun fact – apparently, the video SIM card seems to have disappeared. Odd that could occur since the drone operator was first on the scene of recovery of his precious toy.
The wife of one of my office mates is doing the criminal defense.
Tommy
@Kay:
I had not heard that thinking but now you say it, well it does kind of make total sense. Anything they can do for Trump to speak less is good for the GOP.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay:
Well, given that they got Karl Rove to more or less admit live on national television that somehow the fix was not executed properly, that’s pretty bold of them.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Wait until the Senate campaigns start up, after Labor Day. Then Trump really becomes a problem. The Republicans trying to keep their seats will have to weigh in on Trump if he’s still the front-runner.
I’m always torn on immigration as a deciding issue. I don’t know if you recall this but in 2006 the GOP tried to limit the damage in what was a Democratic wave year by insisting there was there this huge backlash to the immigrant rights movement that year. Remember the huge pro-immigrant rallies? It was tens of thousands of people. Republicans said there was backlash to that so they went full-bore lunatic anti-immigrant and I don’t think it made a bit of difference either way.
raven
@shortstop: What are you talking about?I spend a great deal of time telling weasel shit assholes like you to stick it up your ass.
shortstop
@Kay: But we should all be thanking Rove for refusing to concede Ohio and simultaneously pretending that Romney had a chance even if he had taken that state. It bought 10 minutes and gave Romney a chance to start thinking about writing his concession speech. Late in the evening. On election night.
I still get a kick out of it.
redshirt
@shortstop: I’d call myself on it before I’d call those two.
raven
@shortstop: I got a kick for you right here.
Another Holocene Human
@ThresherK (GPad): Wow, that sounds awesome. I trust it was near the beach, too?
This summer in North Central Florida is killing me this year.
dmsilev
Morning train-wreck alert: Markos calls out “crazy Bernie conspiracy theories” on dKos. ~1150 comments and counting…
shortstop
@redshirt: then I’d respectfully submit that you’re not paying close attention and that your beef is more about personality than actual comment content.
Kay
@Villago Delenda Est:
I am a worrier about Ohio and I wasn’t watching FOX but I was watching returns and I was worried when Romney didn’t concede because if there’s a contested election there has to be good documentation to put up a really strong legal fight. Obama had an elaborate voter protection apparatus in Ohio- he had lawyers in every county- but obviously not everyone does their job and… mistakes are made. I was dreading it.
Provisional balloting is a disaster waiting to happen. Lots and lots of poll workers don’t know how to do it. It has four steps to make the ballot valid and that’s after the poll worker decides to put them on a provisional and often they don’t even get that right. Often the voter shouldn’t be getting a provisional in the first place.
Villago Delenda Est
@Iowa Old Lady: You’re right, even if they were inclined to discuss policy in serious terms (they’re not) there’s not enough time to do so with any degree of intelligence or nuance. It’s all going to be red meat for their base of monsters from the id. It’s going to be all about the soundbites, because that’s the only way 10 people in a 90 minute “debate” can operate.
The vermin of the Village love this, because they can chomp on tiger shrimp and not miss anything of substance when they dip it in the cocktail sauce.
shortstop
@Kay: It would have had to be fought vigorously. But it wouldn’t have mattered to Obama’s 270 unless he’d lost several other states he wasn’t going to lose, no? So Rove’s meltdown made even less sense.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay: Well, they get a provisional because they’re a potential fraud case, that is, they demographically might vote for a Democrat, which is automatically a suspect ballot, because no REAL American would ever vote for a Democrat.
redshirt
@shortstop: lol sure! By the way did you notice The Donald?
Tommy
@dmsilev: Very interesting read. I prefer Sanders over Hillary but I don’t see how attacking Hillary helps Sanders.
g
I would say the stakes are YOOGE! but the bar is set pretty low. How hard is it to be smarter than Rick Perry?
Another Holocene Human
@Gimlet: These fucking drones are ridiculous. Rich nerds own and operate them, so like gunnnzzzz, they seem to be allowed to do just about anything until they interfere with public safety, as in California last week.
It amazes me what powerful people can get away with #crimingwhilewhitecishetmale, like that guy who was doing upskirt shots in public. Frankly, that fucking beggars belief. Women have worn skirts in the Western world for literally hundreds of years with the expectation of privacy in public, but using a device to look upskirt isn’t lewd and lascivious behavior?
It makes you wonder what else isn’t really illegal, as long as it’s done by a snotty white libertarian with high tech devices.
And a lot of this shit is happening because we have no explicit privacy laws as such. Granted, it’s a balance, and privacy law can be abused (as it often is in Europe, by domestic abusers and criminals, not to mention corrupt officials). But there has to be a limit somewhere. We let the government have unlimited access to everything everywhere because we were afraid of Reds under the bed and despite limited attempts to curtail that, basically these creeps are exploiting the same principles that governments and big corporations use to acquire information on people.
And even when they do cross the line into blatantly criminal behavior, our police departments refuse to hire anybody over a certain IQ. They lack adequate training in internet stuff. Even FBI isn’t all that good at it and has to pick their battles.
Every PD should have college educated officers who understand tech, not “that one guy who is the computer guy”, a team. And if they’re too small and lack the resources, maybe they should be rolled into the county.
Little story, when one of my brothers got in trouble at school, long story, they got a warrant and seized some stuff he had used including the family computer. They kept it for months but never were able to do any forensic work on it because it was an old Performa and their “computer guy” didn’t know how to turn it on.
Good thing my brother was just pulling a very stupid prank and not a criminal mastermind.
Villago Delenda Est
@g: Being smarter than Rick Perry isn’t the problem. Being smarter than Rick Perry’s glasses is.
MomSense
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
The teal is lovely as is the meaning.
Iowa Old Lady
@Tommy: That’s why I wonder if some of them are Republican trolls.
Not to sound paranoid.
Gimlet
@Another Holocene Human:
I predict a business opportunity for personal SAMs.
dmsilev
@Tommy: It doesn’t, and that was one of Markos’ points. There’s a hard core of Sanders supporters over there who just don’t care however.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: My grandfather nabbed a however-many point buck and the antlers were hung in my grandmother’s house. However, being an old country boy who grew up in the Depression he may have enjoyed sport fishing and hunting just for the fun of it but he ate everything he took.
That was what killed him. He ate game from the Nevada fallout zone and developed leukemia due to radiation poisoning.
He wasn’t the only one–the families sued and sought relief through Congress–but the Government said “national security–too bad, so sad”.
That’s why it’s sort of surprising that Congress did anything for victims of the Japanese internment camps, but it’s good that they did.
shortstop
@Another Holocene Human: Drones have gone way beyond “rich guys” only now. They’re affordable to a large chunk of folks. This is largely a case of technology being ahead of the law again. There are privacy cases working their way through the courts now, and a certain amount of proposed legislation in different (local and state) jurisdictions, but as far as I know, Florida’s the only state with a law to address this so far.
Of just as much concern is the lack of safety regulations concerning drones. The federal regs for commercial use are being revamped right now, but there are no federal laws — none — guiding personal use. And those things can do some damage when they crash.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: Don’t do a Google search for “upskirt” or “voyeurism.” Seems a whole subset of the Internet caters to these fetishes. And of course drones are going to be used for just this.
I mentioned in another comment I get a daily email from StackSocial. A geeky web site. The size and price of drones are falling on what seems like a daily basis. Often there are ones out there for well under $500.
SFAW
@shortstop:
And I’d respectfully suggest that Tommy’s me-me-me posts far exceed (percentage-wise) those from any of the others you’ve mentioned in your attempted throwdown.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tommy: Rule 34. It’s everywhere you imagine it might be.
chopper
@dmsilev:
dance, my little puppets, DANCE!
boatboy_srq
The 5 pm opening act may be more interesting, but I’m still looking forward to the 9mm main event.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: So sad about your grandfather ….
I don’t mind people that hunt deer, or fish, or quail. Those are all things I like to eat. Buy you hit on what is key to me, you eat what you kill or you don’t kill it.
Another Holocene Human
@Kay: I think the recession’s fruits are ripening, myself.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: Well all righty, then!
Denali
@Kay,
I care. I refuse to watch these “debates” for that reason. The fact that Jenny Horne(name right?) made a diffenence with her speech to the South Carolina legislature gives me hope that one person can still make a difference.
boatboy_srq
@Another Holocene Human:
This is the best one-sentence refutation of objectivist libertarianism I have yet to read. I’m sorry for your loss, but I can’t help thinking about all the people that “eliminating wasteful government regulation” would injure or kill in comparable ways.
shortstop
@SFAW: Mmmmmm, he does it more than Omnes does, okay, but not so much more that it’s not hilarious to see Omnes constantly getting enraged by him doing it. He’s about even with raven, who never met a topic or observation he couldn’t greet with a free association from his own life.
shortstop
@rikyrah: “‘The blacks’ love me! They love me!”
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: What if I have a fence? Or a privacy break?
What if they’re droning around my property because they’re planning a break in? What if I have a bird feeder and they’re harassing the birds?
People think it’s a device and it’s separate from their body so they can do whatever horrid thing and they won’t get in trouble. And they probably won’t in this environment. I support property owners being able to bring them down.
Today’s justice system seems to think that if a perp’s physical body isn’t there doing the harassing, invading, etc (unless it’s of police or a major corporation) then it’s not really a crime. Btw, I think those hackers we imprisoned in the 80s and 90s are owed some major apologies.
Randy P
@Gimlet: Hmm. Maybe that’s not a bad idea. Oh I’m not advocating attack drones that carry explosives or shot projectiles. But perhaps some kind of hardening, designed for ramming. Or maybe it just grabs on and pulls the drone down by weight.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: I am pretty sure I am totally with you on this. A lot of people around me have privacy fences. I don’t so I don’t expect in my yard people can’t see me. Heck take pics if they want. Now if I had a privacy fence, well I’d expect privacy and you not able to see me.
Another Holocene Human
@Botsplainer: Best of luck to her. Hope the judge will at least apprehend that they charged the wrong party in this contre-temps.
Another Holocene Human
@Kay: The Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations
SFAW
@shortstop:
I think you’re miscounting.
Although I don’t have the same level of (what I perceive to be) annoyance with Tommy that Omnes does, Tommy’s me-me-me type of comment is a pretty high percentage of his overall number. My sense is that it’s upwards of 80 percent – but having something (allegedly) resembling a life, I do not keep an accurate accounting. And although a me-me-me reference can sometimes (or perhaps often) be valuable, my perception is that Tommy’s are typically gratuitous.
Another Holocene Human
@raven: Well, that really raised the tenor of the debate. Kudos.
Another Holocene Human
@raven:
“Nobody’s gonna talk shit about me to MY face–I’ll kill ‘im!”
You must have so many friends.
Tommy
@SFAW: You just can’t let it go can you? Oh me, me, me, me.
Kay
@shortstop:
The longer they can throw it into question the more dangerous it gets. I think Rove knew it was over in Ohio because they take it down to such detail, and he did that in this state- he himself ran two of those. They have a target for each county and the more returns that come in the clearer the picture gets. So in this county Obama needed 8000 (solid) and 7200 (too low, bad sign) means there is drop-off and if that shows up and multiplies elsewhere he will lose. Rural counties come in early so they have a pretty good picture prior to urban areas even posting results. I think he was just keeping as many challenge options open as long as he can, which any good advocate would do.
I was watching local tv and Marcy Kaptur came out in Toledo at a victory party before they called it and she looked really happy, so I relied on that. She was saying “they are still canvassing” but it seemed obvious to me she thought it was in the bag. Her district is gerrymandered and it stretches from Toledo to Cleveland. Someone was telling her good things :)
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Looks like we’re going to get our dog at long last. He’s in Lexington, Kentucky, so he’s a little far from us here near Washington, D.C., but it could be worse. In other news that nobody else will care about, my wife and I are sticking her parents with the kiddies this weekend so we can go off and have a nice weekend in the country in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.
raven
@Another Holocene Human: Fuck a debate, fuck some tenor and fuck shortstop. There is a pie filter and it’s easy to use.
SFAW
Oh, goody. Food fight!
Belafon
Over at Daily Kos, Markos wrote a diary in response to a diary written about an editorial he wrote. The original diary, in response to the editorial, had people accusing him of being a corporate sellout because he’s successful, a CIA plant, and other hilarious conspiracy theories. I did like this quote that Markos put in:
SFAW
@Tommy:
Get a grip, will you?
One hopes that was an attempt at irony/snark.
Tommy
@SFAW: Can’t you see that calling me out for talking about myself is kind of what you are doing right now?
Oh and of course that was snark. Funny you can’t even see that.
Another Holocene Human
@dmsilev: Wow, dKos diarists got told.
OTOH, there are a couple of paras of Kos trolling as well. In between some extremely valid points.
Even for a Kos post, that is a high post count. I refuse to get off the boat for those comments.
No doubt Markos is continuing to auto-troll in the comments, as is his wont.
NorthLeft12
@Gimlet: American exceptionalism? How exactly are they intending to teach that?
As a fact or as a myth? Teaching it as a fact is totally redundant as every politician, media outlet and pundit, and most Americans already believe it as fact and reinforce that on a daily basis.
Teaching it as a myth would be far too radical for any school. Although that would be a pretty entertaining class to take IMO. If just for the reactions of the students taking it and the constant parade of RWNJs protesting it by sitting in and disputing anything negative.
SFAW
@Belafon:
Does that mean liberals are supposed to hate money? Because cons hate sex – especially when someone else is getting it.
But the idea that libs hate money is … intriguing? No, that’s not it. Pithy? No … hmmm … fucking stupid? Yeah, that’s it!
shortstop
@Kay: Gratuitous self-reference: we came over from Chicago to canvass in Kaptur’s district! Those Joe the Plumber supporters were a trip.
You make excellent points, as usual. I think perhaps I’m lumping in Rove’s impassioned defense of Ohio with some of the other crazy things from that night: as I said above, Romney’s lack of preparation for a loss was one of them. It was just so astounding how thoroughly taken by surprise they were by what was clearly going to happen. I never thought they believed all that skewed polls crap–just thought they were putting it out there to whip up the rubes and get out the vote–but it turned out they actually did seem to buy it. Just amazing.
Another Holocene Human
@Kay:
The silent scandal of voting “reform”.
SFAW
@Tommy:
Tommy, now you’re getting into the realm of either (A) Incoherent or (B) “I know you are but what am I?”
You should have quit while you were (relatively) ahead.
Or maybe it’s funny that you don’t understand that your “snark” was, shall we say, poorly executed.
Belafon
@SFAW: Republicans don’t hate sex. What they hate is when others get to have sex and enjoy it.
Another Holocene Human
@Iowa Old Lady:
I think some of them are. The worst ones are online. Often with anon handles. Yes, some of them might be privileged dumbshits in their high school/college socialist club, but probably some of them are paid Republican provocateurs.
There are already provocateurs from big business in lefty movements. This is even easier because you don’t need a meatspace reputation.
NorthLeft12
@Tommy: Mr. Meredith [Dandy Don?], said that he shot it down because he believed it was hovering over his sunbathing daughter. The drone operator(s) claimed they were taking pictures of a friend’s house.
I wonder if the video that the drone was taking could be reviewed to see what the drone was actually monitoring? Not sure if that still gives the guy the right to shoot it out of the sky but this is Kentucky and the US we are talking about here. No offence.
Another Holocene Human
@Gimlet: Heh. Although a really accurate shot from a paintball gun might accomplish the same objective. Hmmmm… Always wanted one of those.
JPL
@shortstop: Romney had the poor little rich boy syndrome. Why wouldn’t he think the election was his?
Amir Khalid
I saw the headline Desperate Christie Rebrands Himself As Protector of Delayed Commuters at TPM and I was, like, dafuq?
schrodinger's cat
Is some front pager going to live blog the debate?
Tommy
@SFAW: Who are you go judge me? I let it go but you kept mentioning me. I am sorry if somehow I pissed you off. Not my goal. But again and again you mention me and you expect I might not respond when you can’t drop it.
Another Holocene Human
@shortstop: Sorry for being sloppy. Rich guys were the early adopters.
If poor people of color are early adopters, like those neon lights under the car, they’re quickly banned. If rich guys are early adopters, like those blind-you headlights so you can speed faster at night, then the authorities go all wishy washy. FTR, I think the latter are many orders of magnitude the greater safety hazard. (Oh, and sorry my example is really out of date. For the younger people, supposedly neon underlights weren’t a cool trick-out of your pimped out ride but some sort of bat-signal for weed dealers to clients. Total lie, it’s the buyers who signal.)
Belafon
@schrodinger’s cat: John’s sober. I don’t think you can ask any person to watch the debates sober.
Jeffro
Wow…the Foos are almost gonna have to make a stop over in Italy after this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JozAmXo2bDE
Kay
@shortstop:
I read a ton on Florida 2000 and I start with this: the Republican Party stole that election. Specifically, the George HW Bush family stole that election. They used a lot of different methods to supress votes in Democratic areas and then they ran a spin campaign to influence the public and get it to the Supreme Court. OTOH, I don’t think they stole Ohio in 2004- I never believed that and I think the people who promoted that damaged voting rights advocates’ credibility. I read the Rolling Stone piece on Ohio after 2004 and it was about 50% bullshit. The voting system in this state doesn’t work like that- they got basic facts wrong.
But if you say to me “they won’t steal an election” because there are these other routes I think “well, they did though”. That’s my starting point. I think it’s a fact. So when they start delaying I get nervous. Romney believed Florida was do or die for him- that was his route- and Obama wanted to win Ohio and close off some routes and because I get nervous I want to shut it down too.
raven
@Another Holocene Human: You know just the other day I was thinking how much I cared about you and your analysis of my life and the friends I have. I’m so glad you commented on that because I really care what you think.
shortstop
@JPL: He yammered on for months about his keen business acumen and management skills. When it came down to assessing quantifiable data and reacting accordingly, all of that went down to ego, insularity and arrogance. God, it was fun to watch.
schrodinger's cat
@SFAW: Its not the number of comments but the repetition that is boring.
shortstop
@Another Holocene Human: Yes, I gotcha. The law would be catching up to technology a lot faster if poor people of color were the primary group using it.
Tommy
@NorthLeft12:
That is what I said in my first comment. The story didn’t reference how old she was but that is just creepy. If the 16-year-old daughter that lives behind me was sunbathing and I was out on my backporch, must less using a drone, and taking pictures of her. I would expect her mother and father might want to have a strong word with me about what the heck I was doing.
Chris
@Kay:
IIRC, the background to the Florida 2000 election was that the state government had just purged a ton of people, disproportionately black, from the voter rolls by “misidentifying” them as felons. In other words, the game was rigged long before hanging chads, recounts or the Supreme Court were even an issue.
ETA: I agree completely that stealing elections isn’t something that gives Republicans the slightest pause, and that they’ve already done it. And as Democratic-leaning demographics continue to increase while theirs decrease, they’re going to be doing more and more of it.
schrodinger's cat
@Belafon: They can take turns, half an hour per front pager.
Another Holocene Human
@boatboy_srq: Oh for sure, but really you’d have to look at my grandmother, oil company chemist for over a decade, died of complications from surgery from multiple reproductive cancers. Those were the days when they dealt with huge quantities–liters–of organic chemicals on a daily basis. Huffing the stuff.
My grandfather was killed by Big Government that was addicted to secrecy and lying about the impacts of their tests.
They tested way too close to settlements, waved off the impact of winds and fallout, and failed to cordon off sufficient acreage for a sufficient period of time (ie decades). Really fuckin’ sad story, which ends with institutional indifference.
NorthLeft12
@Botsplainer:
I guess that answers my question regarding checking the video to see what they were looking at. Yeah, four dudebros just looking at a friend’s house sounds convincing to me , but without the video evidence it will be difficult to prove otherwise, right?
But still, I don’t know if you are allowed to shoot peeping toms [robotic or human] in Kentucky.
Emma
@dmsilev: Didn’t read the comments. I just came back from having blood taken and honestly, I need to eat something and have six cups of coffee before I wade into that. But I did read the article and damn if he isn’t right.
Another Holocene Human
@raven: It’s great we have this forum to have these productive interactions.
OzarkHillbilly
Oh fvck all you all. Nothing but a bunch of egotistical raging blowhards telling everyone else everything that is wrong with them and how idiotic they are. And I mean every single person who posts here.
Except me. I am intelligent, understanding, patient, handsome, well endowed and rich. And humble too. Humility is my greatest attribute. People tell me that all the time.
Another Holocene Human
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I hope the weather’s nice.
Tommy
@NorthLeft12: I think in most cities unless you are defending your house it is illegal to fire a gun within city limits.
Steeplejack
@redshirt:
Didn’t know the blog police were out today. I’ll be sure to let you know the next time one of your commenting tics irritates me.
Emma
What is it with commenters in this blog becoming obsessed with other commenters? Pro tip: hit that little downwards pointing arrow on the right and just ignore them. I couldn’t survive “a guy” if I didn’t.
shortstop
@OzarkHillbilly: you had us at “well endowed.” All the rest is just lagniappe.
Gin & Tonic
@NorthLeft12: Mr. Meredith [Dandy Don?], said
I knew a guy who swore that one night on MNF, Don looked at the camera and said “sometimes it occurs to me, what a long strange trip it’s been.” I never believed it, and figured he was high.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: In the early days of satellite tv the MNF on the dish did not go to commercials and you got to hear what Gifford, Dandy and Howard really said!
skerry
I’m assuming that the blue moon tonight is responsible for all the aggressive bullshit that is being posted this morning.
Kay
@Chris:
I don’t think they’ll ever be able to do a Florida again because there were so many factors- a major one was Jeb Bush as governor. All that caging and purging? That was him. That person, that election, that time period.
The whole discussion has changed. I know people think it’s really frustrating and no one talks about voting rights or does anything but is it worlds better than it was in 2000. A different universe.
But I do start with what I believe is the simple fact that the GOP stole one and if they get an opening they’ll do it again. I think it’s horrible and scary for people to contemplate so that’s why we get elaborate theories about voting machines when really it’s boring stuff like voter rolls and long lines and provisional ballots that provide an opportunity. There’s aspects to Florida that are really disgusting, like Joe Leiberman’s central role in the lie about the military ballots. WTF was that all about? There should have been an investigation into that election.
Patricia Kayden
@Emma: Amen. There are so many informative and entertaining comments here. No need to work yourself up over a few that you don’t like. Life is too short. I actively avoid racist commenters like Knowing and A Guy but generally enjoy other points of view.
Won’t be watching but I’m looking forward to reading the comments about next Thursday’s Republican Debate Apocalypse at BJ, LGM, LGF, Wonkette and JMG. Should be hiliarious.
NorthLeft12
@Another Holocene Human: You think that the guy who shot the drone out of the sky should not have been charged? Really?
Not sure if this is a residential neighbourhood or a rural area, but some municipalities do have laws against firing weapons in those areas. But, this is Kentucky we are talking about.
If they were videoing his daughter, I am not even sure that would be a crime in that area. As many have mentioned there may not be laws covering that, even though it is creepy behavior.
shortstop
@Kay:
Can you refresh my memory?
SFAW
@Tommy:
Oh, quit pouting. Continuing a “conversational” thread is hardly “again and again.”
I’m judging your comments, not you. I’m sure you’re a good guy, and it’s clear you love your (multi-generational) family, which is not particularly common these days, and something I … respect? Admire? Not sure.
But when some number of persons – and I’ve hardly been the first – points out that your posting style is self-referential in extremis, you might consider they may have a point, and maybe some self-assessment is in order. I don’t particularly like it when someone calls me an asshole, but I generally try to figure out if I have been, and – if so – whether it was justified (or at least not totally unreasonable).
On the other hand, if you’re completely OK with being a high-percentage-self-referent commenter, then why do you even give a fuck what I/we say? Because you clearly DO give a fuck (re: what’s been said today), otherwise you wouldn’t be pouting.
Elizabelle
@Another Holocene Human: A friend whose family hails from northern Arizona/southern Utah told me the nuclear testing caused a lot of reproductive sterility in some communities. Have you run across occurrences like that?
Seems a lot of actors in Westerns caught cancer early, but there was so much cigarette smoking then too….
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
This was, perhaps, the truest and greatest thing written since the dawn of time. And I feel blessed that I was here to read it.
Paul in KY
@Gimlet: We have state-of-the-art anti-drone batteries here in the KY.
chopper
@Tommy:
I’m amazed this thread has gone almost 200 comments and yet you haven’t yet reminded us all that your dad has a phD.
shell
This is truely the Silly Season.
Tommy
@SFAW: Don’t think for a second you didn’t make me think about how I comment here. But it is pretty much you and one other person calling me out. Not sure that is the majority of the people.
Paul in KY
@Tommy: Redshirt, does this one count?
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: @skerry:
Skerry beat me to it! About to quip about blue moon madness.
Leave Tommy allllllonnnnne…..
Use the damn scroll button, if you must. Makes life bearable.
Tommy
@chopper: Well I guess a few folks here don’t really like me much.
Elizabelle
@chopper:
Point’s been made.
What are our pet overlords up to today?
Did you know they found a piece of a 777 on some remote island that’s home to a town called Le Tampon (learned that from BJ yesterday).
That island looks beautiful.
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yes, but are you universally respected like me?
NotMax
Boring tales of shipping:
After dithering about it for six months, broke down and ordered something slightly on the bulky/weighty side (27 lbs.) from Amazon last Sunday. Informed at the time that arrival would be between August 10 and 17. It showed up yesterday. (UPS)
Cigars ordered from a supplier in Florida on Monday arrived on Wednesday. Unprecedented speed, as they normally take four or five days. (USPS)
On the other hand, a first class letter mailed from New York took nine days to get here. Stranger still, there was no mechanical cancellation on the stamp, rather there was a large X drawn over it with a ball point pen.
NonyNony
@Villago Delenda Est:
Almost everyone misread Karl Rove’s meltdown that night because almost everyone believes that Karl Rove is a Master Genius Political Strategist. His meltdown on the teevee looks an awful lot like he had some “private knowledge” that told him that Ohio was “in the bag” and then when it turned out Ohio went for Obama he immediately jumped to meltdown mode. If you believe in the myth that the man is a genius, then it certainly looks like he knew that Ohio was rigged and was upset at a betrayal.
However I don’t believe that Karl Rove is a genius. I think Rove is a slimeball who was willing to be dirtier and slimier than Lee Atwater. That isn’t genius, that’s just an amoral scumbag. He also got incredibly lucky in that he hitched his wagon to one of the four legitimately amazing political campaigners in my lifetime (Reagan, Obama, W and Clinton). He ALSO benefits from the fact that W is a campaigning savant – he’s a genius when it comes to running a campaign but outside of his specialty he’s not especially bright (many MBAs seem to suffer from this kind of specialization issue – so do a lot of PhDs for that matter). People looking for an answer as to why this otherwise mediocre man could win a presidential election will attribute far more credit to Rove than he deserves and far less to W than he deserves.
So to me, Rove’s meltdown looked a lot like my brother’s sudden realization on Election Day that I was right, he was wrong, and the polls he was sure needed to be “unskewed” due to anti-Republican bias actually weren’t skewed against Republicans at all – they really did predict the election. Rove looked exactly like a guy who was expecting to be proven right – that Ohio was a Republican stronghold despite the polls – and finding out that he’s wrong and Ohio really is a deeply purple state (despite the stranglehold the state GOP has on the state assembly – sigh).
Kay
@shortstop:
Sure. This was a kind of turning point in the spin war. Republicans worked hard to blow smoke around militray ballots- the more questions and concerns the better!
Then this happened:
“even if they might not comply with the law”? There is nothing as nit-picky as election law. There is no option that includes “even if they don’t comply with the law”. I know he ridiculously believes he is some kind of honorary military warrior given his penchant for putting them in harm’s way but that changed the trajectory of the whole debate and spun it hard toward Bush.
Elizabelle
@Tommy: But some folks find you charming.
raven’s got a useful credo:
FIDO.
Fuck it and drive on.
schrodinger's cat
@Amir Khalid: We can only aspire to that, and have to be satisfied with just being valued. Such is life.
Another Holocene Human
@SFAW: I don’t understand this whole line of reasoning. Never personalizing is what libertarians and other people who have power in the establishment do. Using passive tense. Abstracting. Trying to avoid anything but concretizing and personalizing. Evading empathy and emotional honesty.
Whoever said they were mostly annoyed with the repetition had a point. I know I rant too much. TL;DR, right? Tommy repeats himself too much.
But personalizing? IMO, that’s really only a problem when you take your personal experience and draw the wrong conclusion. Tommy has, and he’s been called out for it. Sometimes we aren’t aware of our own privilege until it slaps us in the face.
Germy Shoemangler
ST. JOHNSVILLE – A powerful, but polarizing point of view. The owner of J.J.’s Sporting Goods announced he will no longer sell guns to Muslims. The decision is getting mixed reaction both on social media and within the small tight knit community of St. Johnsville. John Swartz, said, after the attack at the recruiting station in Tennessee, he can’t in good conscience, sell guns to Muslims.
Swartz said his logic mainly roots from fear of not being able to tell the difference between a radical Muslim and a law abiding citizen. He said that leaves him with little choice, but to put a policy in place. “It has nothing to do with the individual, or the entire community, but I can’t tell the difference, so right now I have very little choice because of my own conscience”, said Swartz.
“My Facebook post, I thought about this and I said well, there’s only one organization that is advocating for the killing of Americans. Trying to get local homegrown terrorists, and somewhat succeeding. They’re not Canadians, they’re not French, they’re Muslims,” said Swartz. He wrote the post about a week ago. Since then he’s backtracked a bit – saying he wouldn’t sell guns to anyone he doesn’t feel comfortable with, no matter who they are. “I’m not trying to be racist. I have to look at who the enemy is and just say that I’m sorry, but this is kind of brought on by themselves,” said Swartz.
The Facebook post is the talk of the small tight knit community with mixed reaction. Bob Vosburgh served in Vietnam, he said he backs any dealer that takes the same approach. “That really hurts us as service-member, they’re piling marines up like cordwood ya know? I’ve got a bad taste in my mouth over that. I’m sorry it has to be that way because I’m sure there are good ones, but until we get a grip on them the sale has to stop to all of them”, said Vosburgh.
Alex Countryman has lived in the village his entire life and said he’s disgusted by the racism. “As member of the community, as a New Yorker, and as an American, I’m embarrassed by the obvious “Islamaphobia”, said Countryman. He said he’s embarrassed that people harbor negative feelings based on the religion of others.
As of Thursday night, Swartz stands by his decision, “I have to make a policy and that’s what my policy is.” He said he follows the constitution, so, if the government compels him to reverse his decision he will obey, but that also means he may end up selling the business.
Tommy
@NotMax: If I am not mistaken for a month you can’t get Amazon Prime for free. Two day delivery. Maybe that was at work.
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: You are, and that’s gotta be a heavy load at times. Do you ever think of just going all asshole for two minutes just to see what would happen?
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
WTF? I thought you were “universally beloved” – when did you get busted in rank? I will write a strongly-worded letter to the appropriate authorities.
Paul in KY
@BillinGlendaleCA: Plus, when things/people are out in public (on a street, say), they have no expectation of privacy & one can take pictures to their heart’s content.
NorthLeft12
@Tommy: Think that this qualifies as defending yourself?
I sure as hell hope not. Mr. Meredith should have called the cops to report a peeping Tom, and not get into the details regarding the drone until they arrived on the scene. I have a feeling that if he said something about the drone on the phone the cops would have laughed it off. Not sure if they would have felt the same if they were on the scene and witnessing the activity live.
Perhaps Mr. Meredith should have shot some video himself?
chopper
@Tommy:
listen, dogg, everybody’s got quirks. and they usually annoy someone or other, or maybe everyone. you gotta be able to admit em and roll with it.
shortstop
@Kay: Thanks. I remember the military ballots discussion but had no memory of Lieberman inserting himself into it. That is astonishing.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Good morning to you!
NorthLeft12
@Tommy: @Tommy: Think that this qualifies as defending yourself?
I sure as hell hope not. Mr. Meredith should have called the cops to report a peeping Tom, and not get into the details regarding the drone until they arrived on the scene. I have a feeling that if he said something about the drone on the phone the cops would have laughed it off. Not sure if they would have felt the same if they were on the scene and witnessing the activity live.
Perhaps Mr. Meredith should have shot some video himself?
SFAW
@Tommy:
I don’t disagree re: a majority. But if you think it’s only two people in this thread …
@Tommy:
Hate the sin, love the sinner. Please endeavor to understand how this applies to you.
Tommy
@NorthLeft12: I do not think this was defending himself. I agree with you 110%. He should have called the cops.
Elizabelle
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I care. Enjoy. And maybe some pup pics, once you’ve got him/her.
You got any interest in a meetup to drink our way through next week’s Fox Meet the Flakes event? Wasn’t there a rumor DougJ might be in town. Something about “near the zoo”, but maybe he was referring to the candidates ….
And Kay has pointed out it’s not really a debate, so what’s a good name for the Foxathon ….
SFAW
@shortstop:
Heaven forbid!
Plus, he leaves that job to me. Well, except for the “two minutes” part.
Kay
@shortstop:
They exclude lots of ballots in elections if they don’t “comply with the law”. The only time it becomes an issue is when it’s close. But the whole point of having the rules is so they matter when it’s close. You don’t need any rules when it;s not close because counties are busy excluding and no one is suing. Everyone thinks Florida’s system is this epic disaster and solid red and blue states are models of electoral ethics, but that’s fantasy. The only reason California looks good is it’s not close. It may be good, but it’s never tested so no one knows.
NonyNony
@Germy Shoemangler:
Um, dude? You’re not allowed to discriminate against people due to their creed. This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to prior to the founding of the country (though arguing about it goes back farther, admittedly). If you don’t want to sell guns to Muslims you shouldn’t sell guns at all.
Or perhaps since you admit that you can’t tell the difference between a “law abiding citizen” and a criminal, you should be pushing your government harder to provide you with more thorough background check laws and waiting periods so you don’t sell guns to criminals? It’s a thought.
raven
@shortstop: Works for you.
Another Holocene Human
@NorthLeft12: Seriously, yes. Maybe I am somewhat irrational on this subject. You do have a point about discharging a weapon in an urbanized area. For some reason I just assumed it was country. (Or county.)
NotMax
@Tommy
Dunno, but I neither have nor desire Amazon Prime.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: My fam lived in KS and OK during that period. Grampa would go off on “a trip” with his buddies. (Yeah, I’ve always kind of wondered if either of my grandparents on that side were strictly heterosexual, but I’ll never know.)
I did see a documentary about the actors and the abutting communities. Just really sad how the government did those people.
Bobby Thomson
@dmsilev: I love it when kos goes all John Cole on people.
There’s some good advice there that will go unheeded.
Bobby Thomson
@shortstop: and?
shortstop
@Another Holocene Human: Yeah, I gotta disagree with you there. The answer is not discharging weapons at drones, urban or country. Leaving aside the property issue, bullets go astray and crashing drones can hit bystanders.
NorthLeft12
@Tommy: Not to belabor the point, but it is all about Mr. Meredith’s perception of what the drone was looking at. You keep assuming that Mr. Meredith was correct in his assumption of what the drone was doing.
It is possible that the drone operator was innocently and legally flying it to view his friend’s house ….as ridiculous and unbelievable as that sounds. Especially given that the video card was mysteriously absent from the drone.
Paul in KY
@SFAW: I think you are making this a much bigger deal than it is.
Tommy
@NotMax: Nor do I. I have an Amazon account but normally never order anything from them. But I go there often for reviews of products I buy from someplace else. I find them very accurate. I don’t know what the deal was but for the month of July got Prime for free and ordered a few things. Two day delivery.
Paul in KY
@Another Holocene Human: I’m not in favor of shooting them. That buckshot that misses the little drone doesn’t stop there. Now if you can net them or use spidey-silk or something like that…
Another Holocene Human
@Another Holocene Human: Tommy, sorry if that came off too harsh. I just reread and realized it could be taken that way. I, for one, find (most of) your personal stories fascinating. I also like the way you draw observations from your own life.
I also share your incredulity at what has happened with politics in our lifetimes. (I differ–perhaps?–in that I think it all just reduces down to the big R word, race.)
Tommy
@NorthLeft12:
Yes I am assuming that and I could be very wrong. But I come back to if I wanted to film my house, I don’t know, I’d go to the house and film it from there with the drone.
Not fly it over the yard of other people.
Emma
Well, it could have been a good thread, but it turned into a pileup with all the usual arses making arses of themselves.
Another Holocene Human
@NonyNony:
Well, that’s a little hand-wavy–legal exclusion of Jews and in some cases Catholics went on for centuries, and it definitely started well before the Revolution with the execution by Puritans of Quakers and so on.
However, the Founders were Enlightenment thinkers who had a revulsion for the horrors of the past on two continents, and deliberately sought to put an end sectarian violence. And their philosophy on the subject is laid out clearly in the Treaty of Tripoli. Abolishing established religion was an enormous step, as was the 1st amendment, towards the eventual banning of discrimination by private business entities by creed in the 1960s.
Another Holocene Human
@Bobby Thomson:
Truer words were never spoken.
karen marie
@MattF: Hilarious. I have never called a congress critter’s office and been told that they had a stated position on anything.
SFAW
@Paul in KY:
You’re probably right.
schrodinger's cat
@Tommy: Here are my 2 cents. I don’t dislike you. However, I do find your endless repetition of your family history, in turns, annoying or amusing, depending on my mood.
One example, your repeated comments is about your father’s PhD. We get that you are proud of the fact, but many people have a PhD, there are quite a few academics who comment here. All a PhD signifies is that you are an expert in a very narrow field. It does not instantaneously make one a wonderful person or even a genius.
OK he has a PhD, so what? I don’t get the point of repeating that fact in every other comment thread.
Anyway, I am sure that I can be annoying too with lolspeak and kittehs and blog pimping and other ticks that surely tick some people of.
NonyNony
@shortstop:
I’m wondering if bean bag cannons or waterballoons would be a better approach. But you’re right – discharging a firearm anywhere near people is rarely the right answer to any question being asked.
As idiots flying their remote-controlled toy planes equipped with spy cameras become more and more of a thing, I suspect these kinds of incidents will become more prevalent though. I’m thinking about coming up with a safe beanbag or nerf cannon that could down a drone without hurting a human being much, market it as an “anti-drone device” and see how much money I could make…
Valdivia
@MattF: I agree! :)
For all the outrage about the GOP’s crazy positions on Iran, if we do not thank those who support the deal, or encourage the other congress-critters, the crazy positions will be our reality unfortunately if the deal goes down.
Paul in KY
@NorthLeft12: If there’s a court case, that SIM card is evidence. Seems that if you were doing what you said you were doing, the video will show film of the house & then it being shot down.
Paul in KY
@OzarkHillbilly: I thought you told them all the time :-)
shortstop
@NonyNony: But again, suddenly disabled drones are weapons themselves. Increasingly, people are being injured by poorly piloted drones; any widespread practice of suddenly taking them out of the sky (by any means, not just guns) is adding to the problem.
I know it pisses people off. I understand why. But I think the way to deal with this long-term is to 1) press for legal parameters on privacy (because case law on privacy from the air pretty much only applies to traditional methods of flight like planes and helicopters) AND 2) get some state and/or federal regulations in place for safe operation that mirror or at least compare to the regs for commercial drone operations.
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: I have no idea what you look like, but I picture you looking sorta like ‘the most interesting man on earth’ from those Dis Equis commercials.
Paul in KY
@SFAW: I like Tommy. Think he is a good guy. If he can get his father to avoid pulling that ‘R’ lever next November, he will be elevated to sainthood status.
dogwood
@schrodinger’s cat:
In Tommy’s defense, I’ve always assumed he repeats his family history because he’s unclear about his audience. Is it the regulars who comment here, or is it a wider audience who read occasionally?
NorthLeft12
@Tommy: Yes, I agree with you on that, but you sound like a thoughtful and considerate person who would think about what you are doing and how it might be perceived by your neighbours.
I’ll take a small leap here and assume that the drone owner/operator sounds like the kind of guy who knows enough that it is legal to fly it around the neighborhood, and really does not give a flying fazoola if it disturbs or bothers any of his neighbours. Its just cool!
Yes, we have people like that up here in Canada too.
gelfling545
@Tommy: I’d rather hear people speak from what they know (including their own experience) than blather about what they assume. But that’s just me, talking about myself. Write as you like. Everybody else seems to.
muddy
@schrodinger’s cat: The one that makes my head explode is that there have only been males born in his family for 5 generations. Clearly this is biologically impossible. I have replied to him several times about this, but got no response. Clearly his family only consists of the male line like the King of England. Oh wait, even *they* changed that BS.
But he’s such a feminist that people often take him for a woman online. He has a niece and she is female, he’s all for it! But yet time after time, his “family” is a thread (from Scotland in 1870) and not a tree. All the women in his family aside from his mom and his niece just don’t count. They are invisible.
J R in WV
@Tommy:
But then there are all the others, even the lurkers, who don’t mind you at all. As others have said, if you don’t like it, scroll, scroll, scroll on down.
J R in WV
@shortstop:
Well but that’s what shotguns are for. Small pellets in a cloud, short range, unlikely to hurt anyone when they fall. Designed to shoot birds flying away from the shooter.
So perfect for dronz – but probably not in urban or densely populated areas, to be sure.
There you need an anti-dronez drone, to hook onto the drone prying into your space, and pull it down to where you can hit it with a golf club, or other rapidly moving object….
AxelFoley
@NonyNony:
W was NOT an amazing campaigner. He barely won/stole two elections against two opponents who ran not so great campaigns.
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat: Pimp that blog! I stole Austerity Cat for my Facebook page, and it is “liked.”
@Paul in KY: Yes. I see AK as an international man of mystery. Beloved or not, always smart. And have to laugh at the typo:
The beer that’s refreshingly insulting.
Paul in KY
@Elizabelle: LOL!!
Paul in KY
@AxelFoley: He was amazing at staying on script & not taking the bait.
SFAW
@Paul in KY:
That implies that he was smart enough for something to be considered “bait.” In other words, if he didn’t understand the point that was being made by the baiter, then he couldn’t get drawn into a debate about said point.
ETA: And “staying on script” is nothing special, plenty of better (and worse) politicians than W have been able to do it since time remorial.
shortstop
@Elizabelle:
Bwa ha ha
Paul in KY
@SFAW: That fucker was relentless in staying away from gotcha questions (IMO).