This is kind of insane. How on earth is this person still a judge?
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by John Cole| 72 Comments
This post is in: Fucked-up-edness
This is kind of insane. How on earth is this person still a judge?
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Drunken hausfrau
Horrible. She shouldn’t be on the bench. I actually think she should be disbarred. Monster.
JPL
NBCnews.com leads with that story. It is so sickening, that I hope someone steps in and stops the assault on the children.
JPL
@Drunken hausfrau: It would be nice if she were stripped searched and thrown in jail.
MJ
I saw that earlier. That crazy judge should be disbarred. And why did the Dad just leave town without trying to get his kids out of juvie?
schrodinger's cat
Still better than the Indian judge who wanted to reconcile a rape victim and her convicted rapist.
PaulW
the judge should have taken a step back and tried to re-examine the requirement of “what is in the best interests of the child”. instead it looked like the judge wanted things to get done her way at all hazards, and disregarded the concerns the teenager had about meeting the father.
geg6
Horrific. This woman has lost the plot, if she ever had it. She should not only be removed from the bench, but prosecuted for false imprisonment, child abuse and endangering the welfare. She’s a repugnant human being.
PaulW
@MJ:
that is sad. a real father – regardless of the divorce situation – would have done everything to keep his kids out of jail.
JPL
So the loving father allowed this.
JPL
@PaulW: I was later than you but how would a father allow this? It really does sound like, he has the attorneys and money so whatever it takes to win. This is so sick.
geg6
@PaulW:
Exactly. I’m with the mom and kids based on that evidence alone.
WaterGirl
This is beyond fucked up. Is no one looking out for these kids?
Edit: This judge is beyond out of control. Aren’t there mechanisms for dealing with judges like this?
Ahasuerus
The reality of this case is not necessarily quite so straighforward. There’s an interesting article at The Observer which contains more detail. TL;DR version: dad actually seems like a nice guy, but mom has the kids and has turned them into defiant little monsters that pissed off the judge. And dad has tried to keep the kids from being sanctioned, but hasn’t been able to convince the judge to back off.
Disclaimer – I have no direct knowledge of this case, but I’m always wary of accepting the conventional wisdom of anything that’s presented as outrage bait. YMMV
JPL
@Ahasuerus: I’m sure there are two sides but put the f..king parents in jail, not the children. It makes no sense.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You’ve got a ways to go to demonstrate that a fifteen year old should be in juvie and a ten and eight year old should be threatened with jail.
JPL
Once a neighbor had a son who didn’t want to visit his dad, and the psychologist wrote a letter and said the visitation would cause damage. The dad backed off.
EconWatcher
I grew up in Oakland County, and back then it was an open secret that kids got raped in juvenile hall. I hope to God that isn’t true now. But this judge obviously has enormous mental health issues and needs to be removed immediately.
Suzanne
Gross. No matter if mom or dad are in the wrong, it is wrong to force anyone, a child or not, to have any sort of relationship that they don’t want. Everyone gets to set their own boundaries, even if those boundaries are dumb.
rb
dad actually seems like a nice guy
Perhaps, perhaps not. Perhaps they together made the decision to move to Israel and mom absconded with the kids. Or: perhaps he made the decision unilaterally over her objections, she went along to keep the family together, and then got up the courage to rescue her children from an abusive situation. Or perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Can’t tell.
What you CAN tell from the transcript is that this judge is absolutely out of control. Threatening a terrified 9 yo guilty of nothing but being 9 year old that she can be forced to “live in jail just like her brother” is fucked right the fuck up. “Defiance of a direct court order” my ass; this is abuse of power, and she should be sanctioned for it.
Face
Does contempt of court for a juvie really earn one months in the pokey? Seems excessive to the point of illegal.
I suspect this judge is gone-zo by Monday.
JGabriel
How the hell is this supposed to help the father build a better relationship with his kids? Instead of just being allegedly abusive, now he’s responsible for getting his kids stuck in juvie. Yeah, they’re gonna be real happy to see their father when they get out, if only for the opportunity to torch the bastard.
Yes, the judge is completely out of bounds, but the father appears to accept this is as just. Utterly bonkers.
Suzanne
@JGabriel: Any dad who loves his kids would do anything to avoid them spending time in juvie, FFS. Spending their birthdays in “children’s village”?!?! Gross.
Steeplejack
This is so over the top it would never even fly on Law and Order: Special Victims Unit, the craziest of the L&O‘s.
JGabriel
@Face:
I wonder if this is another instance of a judge getting kickbacks for kids in juvie?
mai naem mobile
I saw this on Raw Story earlier and looked it up a little further. Theres an interview with the dad online. Granted I’m only hearing one side of the story but it does appear that the mom’s poisoned the kids against the dad. I may be seeing it this way because I’ve seen similar stuff go on in my extended family. I’m not sure what the judge can do but the mom is at least partially to blame for the situation.
JPL
@mai naem mobile: I can’t buy that. The children might be caught in a contentious custody battle but why throw them in jail.. That would never be the answer. Throw the parents in jail, but not the children. Juvie is jail
Steeplejack
@mai naem mobile:
Like no parent in the history of divorce ever “poisoned the kids” against the other parent before?! Why is that a mitigating factor for this judge’s completely nutzo actions?
EconWatcher
@JGabriel:
I had a somewhat different thought, although also suspecting corruption: The judge repeatedly said on the record that the father was a “great man.” Why would she say such a thing? How, in her simple capacity of judging a lawsuit, could she even pretend to know such a thing? So I was thinking possible payoff or other undisclosed connection. But then again, maybe she’s just bonkers.
Ahasuerus
@JPL: I agree, but still; you don’t openly and deliberately defy a judge in court and expect no repercussions. I’m not sure a stint in juvie is the proper response, but I have no idea what is (or even what sanctions are actually available in such cases).
JPL
@Steeplejack: Yup.. Let’s put these spoiled kids in jail and that will make them love their dad.
Ahasuerus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Agreed; see my response to JPL at number 30 above.
JPL
@Ahasuerus: Truth be known, I thought the children showed restraint.
Why would a father think this is a good idea?
HRA
Divorce with children is akin to walking barefoot on hot coals. That does not in any way excuse this idiotic judge’s ruling at all. It all had to begin when one of the parents sought the court to intervene.
I wish one of the BJ lawyers was here to comment on it.
Renie
it appears the parents have a long history going on in this divorce proceedings but for a Judge to take it out on the children is unbelievable. jail the parents not the young children. some legal authority needs to do something about these children and their interests the actions of the judge need to be reviewed also
Article
JGabriel
EconWatcher:
Also a good possibility. Whatever the case, something definitely smells off here.
EconWatcher
@HRA:
I am a lawyer, in fact educated in the same state as the judge, and in my professional opinion she is a whackadoodle. The Charles Manson references leave no doubt about this.
Ahasuerus
@JPL: I didn’t get the sense from what I read that the father thought it was a good idea, rather that he was unable to prevent it. But I don’t really know, because I’m not there and I’m relying on reporting from an industry which I have come to believe is inherently unreliable, especially in the early stages of events.
ETA: apropos my final sentence above, I don’t always agree with Villago Delenda Est, but I fully concur with the sentiment contained within his/her nym.
mai naem mobile
@JPL:I’m not sure why the kids can’t stay with a non -juvie neutral party. And the moms an established opthamologist so I doubt she lacks the money for lawyers. I think this is like the Rachel Dahzelol story. There’s way more to it than poor mommy or daddy. The dads hired a PR form for crying out loud.
@Steeplejack: I think the mom pushed the judge over the edge. Just my opinion.
JPL
@Ahasuerus: One thing he could have done is back off. I understand that he might want to connect with his children, but this might not be the way.
@EconWatcher: Could the dad have backed off?
JPL
@mai naem mobile: Oh great.. The judge is pissed at the mom so sends the kids to jail. Nice.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That was my first thought– grandparents, an aunt or uncle taking custody, and some kind of multi-party therapy session. Not juvenile detention. This judge may cost the county more money than her husband did. I hope so.
EconWatcher
@mai naem mobile:
The most basic requirement for a judge is that you not be susceptible to being pushed over the edge. “Judicial temperament.” In no way could she be justified in detaining the kids. She will lose her job over this.
EconWatcher
@JPL:
I don’t know whether it would have mattered if the dad backed off, because the judge was acting outside the bounds of the law, so the law can’t answer that. Yes, judges have summary contempt powers against people who disobey their orders, but those powers have limits, and generally can only be used for misconduct occurring in the courtroom (eg, refusing to testify under subpoena). The idea that these powers could be used to punish a kid for refusing “an order” to have lunch with his dad is completely whacky.
Omnes Omnibus
If you have elected judges, you sometimes get morons.
JohnPM
Not only is she a judge, but she is the Presiding Judge of the Family Division of the Oakland County Circuit Court.
Seems to me that the mom’s attorney should be able to appeal the civil contempt ruling, but I do not practice in Michigan.
Percysowner
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Both sets of grandparents are in Israel. It was part of the father’s whining that the mother didn’t stay in Israel, even though both sets of grandparents lived there. As if her wishes should only be about that. Plus he gets all huffy that he paid child support “even before the court order” as if actually supporting his kids makes him a martyr and a saint.
Many psychiatrists thing Parental Alienation Syndrome doesn’t really exist, or that it is really rare. In any case, the judge has pretty much made sure these kids will hate their father for life. Even if he couldn’t stop it, they will see that he insisted they see him when they didn’t want to and blame him for being sent to jail. Basically the kids are going to be traumatized by this. This ruling should be overturned and the judge should lose her job or be sanctioned.
Walker
I was reading another thread where a family lawyer commented. Supposedly this is way off base because children are not a party to a divorce. You cannot legally compel the children to do anything. Whether or not the mother “brainwashed” them is irrelevant.
zattarra
Children’s Village is not Juvie. It’s not prison. It’s the place where the state sends kids when they can’t find them permanent foster placements or need to be taken from their homes for some reason and there is no place else for them to go. It ain’t a happy place but it isn’t prison. This story was designed to elicit outrage the way it has been reported but keep in mind kids are pulled from parents all the time. I’m a foster parent, I’ve had “my” kids spend time in Children’s Village, it isn’t as good as my home but it’s better than a lot of their birth parents.
Kids get pulled from their homes all the time. It happens. Judges decide to remove parental rights from parents for many reasons. This story is sensationalized to get clicks. In the US we empower family court judges to take kids from their parents. It’s the worst part of their jobs but they are the people stuck having to do it. And the parent who feels wrong makes up all sorts of stories and excuses and says the judge is out to get them and brainwashes the kids. I’ve watched this. I’ve seen 12 year old girls defend their mom after mom has let her sex offender boyfriend rape her 12 year old. I’ve seen women who have allowed their 6 year old to be raped and still date registered sex offenders blame the judge for wronging them and being out to steal their babies. I’ve had my kids ask when they would get to go home to their drug addicted parent who let them sit in their own feces because they miss mommy. Mom get’s very little benefit of the doubt from me.
Omnes Omnibus
@Walker: Children are not parties in a divorce, but a family court is supposed to put primacy on the welfare of the children.
gelfling545
How is it that there doesn’t seem to be a law guardian appointed for the children? Or is that only a NY thing?
EconWatcher
@zattarra:
Helpful to know about Children’s Village, but otherwise no: the direct quotes from the judge show that she was punishing the children by sending them to the facility, even comparing the boy repeatedly to Charles Manson; she was not taking them from their home to protect them. So no, I don’t think you’ve made the case that this is overhyped. This judge is nuts. (Unless the direct quotes from the judge are faked.)
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@zattarra:
So if mom is that awful, why did the judge put them in a facility rather than placing them with their father?
Sorry, I don’t give either parent much credit in this situation. This man’s children have spent TWO WEEKS in that facility and he doesn’t give a shit. Read the interview with him: he thinks they deserve to be there.
The judge, by her own quotes, explicitly put the children in the facility in order to punish them for not wanting to spend time with their father. That’s fucked up.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@gelfling545:
The kids have their own court appointed lawyers, but they aren’t talking to those lawyers.
@EconWatcher:
No, she was comparing the mom to Manson. She was referring to the eldest son as one of Manson’s brainwashed followers. I’m putting a bit more trust in the Detroit Free Press’ coverage of this. The article there contains a copy of the transcript, and the Manson bit is pretty clear when you read the transcript.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
I don’t think she sees the mom as a complete loss on this. Mom actually did encourage the kids to have lunch with dad a few weeks ago (again, read the Detroit Free Press’ account of the story).
What this looks like to me is the judge trying to walk a tight rope here. I think she wants to grant mom custody while still allowing dad visitation when he’s back in The D. She doesn’t want dad bouncing off to Israel with the kids, and she wants mom to come clean about feeding these kids a line of bullshit for the 5 1/2 years this case has been in her court. Reading between the lines a bit further, it comes across to me that the judge has caught the eldest kid in some inconsistencies in his story over the years.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
From the Free press story:
If the kids refuse to have a relationship with their dad, putting them in a juvenile facility as punishment isn’t going to make them magically decide their dad is a great guy after all. This was, to say the least, a very, very poor decision by the judge that will have the opposite effect from what she claims to want for this family.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Think about this: The case has been going on for 5 1/2 years, and one of the kids is 5-years old. How could she have ever formed an opinion about her dad all on her own?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
So if the youngest child barely knows her father, the best way to get her to know him is to throw her into a juvenile facility, separate her from her siblings, and tell her she’s going to have to stay there until she’s 18?
Here’s another article from the Freep with experts who are astounded that a judge would think its a good idea to punish the children who are stuck in the middle of their parents’ fight:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/experts-jailed-kids/29943451/
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Also, I can’t tell if you have a typo above or have the facts wrong, but the youngest child is 9 years old, not 5.
seaboogie
@EconWatcher: What a sad, sad story. I did go back and read the available reports, and it seems to me that the father and children in this situation are stuck between two women (mother and judge) who have some serious issues, neither of whom are concerned about the welfare of the children, no matter now much the crazy judge doth protest.
On the one hand, Dad is dealing with an unbalanced and bitter ex-wife turning his children against him. On the other hand, he has an unhinged judge who is his advocate, lecturing his children and putting them (or threatening to) in jail. Even when he wins he loses, and so do his children.
My ex (who introduced me to Balloon Juice) has a good friend in a similar circumstance (sans the crazy judge). This friend – J – is perhaps the sweetest, gentlest and kindest soul I have ever met. His ex-wife, who started to fly her freak flag on the day that they were married has gained full custody of their daughter and has poisoned the daughter against the father to the point that she will have no contact with her Dad. If memory serves correctly, the ex-wife is a social worker (and so knows how to work the system by dint of her job). So proof that no profession (not even judges), including those in the “helping” world, is free from the crazy, bent selves that some folks can be.
J has a new partner and is helping to parent her kids while he awaits his daughter to achieve the age of majority, when he might be free to become a part of her life again. Once this young woman discovers how absolutely wonderful a man her father is, and what she has missed – and then turns to look at her mother and all of the poison that mom has poured into her ear and heart, she is going to need a great deal of therapy. I hope that she has a good therapist, who can guide her wisely through that.
Kids in this situation are kind of like hostages, and dependent upon the custodial parent for their care. Stockholm situation, anyone? Once they realize that most of what they’ve assumed as truth and integrated into themselves and their experience is a lie, they are going to need a LOT of help. Hopefully they will have good therapists as guides, and (in these 2 cases), the dads are there to be loving, present and understanding for their children, and able to handle the absolute rage of betrayal that these children will experience.
And also – somebody get that fucking judge off the bench – Charles Fucking Manson? Not only is that a heinous reference, but the kids for sure have absolutely no clue who he is. She’s a nutter, that one!
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
The best way to get her and her brothers know him is to reverse the damned brainwashing in a neutral setting, then try to start all over again.
FWIW, the same thing should have happened to all of those kids who testified for the prosecution in the McMartin Preschool case in L.A., the Little Rascals case in North (South?) Carolina, and the Dale Akiki case in San Diego. Barely one of those kids in any of those cases has recanted the bullshit planted in their heads. Those kids need lots of help, and their parents, the prosecutors and the “therapists” who planted the bullshit in their heads should all be in prison.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@seaboogie:
If you read the Free Press stories, it’s pretty clear that both parents suck. It REALLY doesn’t help that the judge is so blatantly picking sides and trying to force the kids to choose as well.
I think the kids are going to need a certain Reddit board sooner rather than later:
http://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Sorry, but I’ve been reading way too much about manipulative parents of both genders to assume that there’s an innocent parental party here. You say “brainwashing,” I say, “kids being forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.”
Again, according to the Freep stories, these kids WILLINGLY WENT TO A JUVENILE FACILITY rather than speak to their father. “Brainwashing” just ain’t that effective. Mom may suck, but I seriously doubt that the dad who appears to be making NO effort to get his kids out of a juvenile care facility is a totally innocent party here.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Maybe so, but brainwashing IS that effective, especially on children. The kids are just trying to survive, and likely humoring the crazy custodial parent in that effort. Children love parents who beat them, because that is what they know. And then they think that that is how love is expressed.
Dad’s advocate is a crazy judge who sends his kids to jail? I’m saying his head is probably spinning right now as to whether anyone is trustworthy, and he has none of the power.
Then again, my Dad wanted us when our mother decided she’d rather not raise her children, so I am definitely going to give a Dad who is not an obvious asshole the benefit of the doubt as he tries to sort out the situation in this crazy system.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne (tablet): The judge is punishing the children. The judge is not only lacking judgement, but by virtue of her comments, is unhinged. Poor kids in this situation. Which adult can you really trust? Answer: None of them. Not even the law that is supposed to protect you.
Arclite
Rubies to rosebushes, those kids are black.
Donalbain
@mai naem mobile:
Here is a full list of the people to blame for those children being sent to prison.
The judge.
That is all.
Even if the mother has twisted the kids and made it so they hate their father, why the hell would anyone think that it is a good idea to force a child to see someone that the child hates? In what universe is that what is considered best for the child?
Denali
This is one of those case in which no one will ever know the whole story. It is just a deeply sad one, especially for the children. There is no good solution, just the least harmful one. The information from the foster mother re Childre’s Village was useful. That said, the judge does not come out well.
Ohio Mom
@Arclite: That was my first guess, after all, much more likely that African Americans get treated so shabbily. But with both sets of grandparents in Israel, no.
I’m left wondering if some of this has to do with how the parents want to be Jewish: Move to Israel v. stay in US, maybe also how orthodox to be. People can get pretty worked up on how “religious” to be/raise the kids (hate using that word that way, who are Orthodox Jews to tell me that I am not as “religious” as they are?).
Barry
Read the linked story for a background on the judge. She’s formerly from the Oakland County DA’s office, which is a nasty place (google ‘L Brooks Patterson’).
Her husband had to resign after a deliberate, malicious and perjurious prosecution. And that’s just what he was caught at – remember, prosecutors have immunity from – well, the law.
In short, the judge is a nasty piece of work from a nasty power couple who were trained in a nasty, corrupt, power-abusing place.
Percysowner
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I don’t know. Telling the kids that either they or their mother are equivalent to Charles Manson AND that their father is “a great human being” doesn’t sound like trying to walk a tightrope to me. It sounds like someone who has picked sides, rightly or wrongly,
I do appreciate the description of Children’s Village, but it doesn’t change the fact that in being sent there the kids are being cut off from any friends they have and from a normal life. They also are being kept from seeing their siblings. Add to that the kids are being told it is because they are bad people who deserve to be removed from normal society and what the judge has done is pretty appalling. It sounds like a total abuse of power to me.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@seaboogie:
Since I am not a parent, I always put myself in the kids’ shoes in a situation like this. If you were 15 or under and your chose was between an asshole parent who wanted to make you move to a foreign country or an asshole parent who would let you stay in the country you grew up in, which parent would you choose?
The dad is still fighting in another court to have the kids returned to Israel. If I were those kids, I would be afraid to have lunch with him, too, because I would not want to leave my friends, my school, and everything I’d ever known to live in a foreign country.
If the dad drops his insistence that the kids be forced to move to Israel, they might be able to repair the relationship, but if the price for having that relationship is to be moved to a foreign country against their will, I can see why the kids are resisting with everything they have.
retr2327
@mai naem mobile: IAMAL, FWIW.
A) as a judge, it’s kind of your job not to let the parties push you over the edge; and
B) so the mom pushes you over the edge and you take it out on the children?
She needs to be gone, period.