This should surprise no one who ever served in the military:
Sara Emsley always knew she wanted to join the U.S. Army, ever since she was a small child. “You can ask any of the kids I made go through an obstacle course at my sixth birthday party,” the West Point cadet recently said. She dressed up as soldier for Halloween for “many, many years,” and never paused to worry about whether the military would let a girl like her fight.
Then she hit adolescence and began to discover her sexuality. She didn’t like what she felt. Girls like that were forbidden from serving, so she denied her own urges. She couldn’t let them stand in the way of her dream.
Emsley first went to college at Virginia Tech, where she finally came out to herself and trusted others, but hid her sexuality from her peers in the college’s R.O.T.C. program. By then, the military had lifted its absurd “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, but Emsley still felt it was too dangerous to say anything. Then the U.S. Military Academy at West Point accepted her. She expected to dive much deeper into the closet when she arrived last summer for basic training. “I couldn’t have been more wrong,” she said. “I received nothing but support or indifference.”
Funny how appealing “indifference” sounded. Such a surprisingly beautiful word. At first gays asked for tolerance, but what a degrading goal that was: Who the hell wants to be tolerated? Then we asked for acceptance, but maybe “indifference” would be best of all. It sounded that way when Emsley spoke about it this March at an official West Point ceremony I attended honoring gay cadets and Spectrum, the academy’s gay-straight alliance. Indifference. The ultimate goal, the cherished hazy objective gays hope for on some distant horizon has always been indifference. Where nobody gives a shit. You’re a lesbian? Cool—we won’t be interested in the same guys.
The only reason there would and ever will be a problem with homosexuality in the military is if it comes from leadership. No one cares- there’s enough chickenshit and important shit to deal with that someone’s sexual orientation just isn’t going to matter in any way.
Punchy
This is terrible news for John McCain.
Belafon
I can imagine some of the people I served with in the Navy would have had a problem, but that was 20 years ago, and they weren’t anywhere near a majority. As you said, most of the problems are caused by the leadership.
shell
“Peter Malloy: One day I just cracked. I said: “Mom, dad, Sparky, I’m gay.”
Howard Brackett: So what happened?
Peter Malloy: My mom cried, for exactly 10 seconds, my boss said: “Who cares?”, and my dad said: “But you’re so tall…!”.
From ‘In And Out’
raven
I’ve said it here more than once but there were gay troopers in every unit I was in during my three years in the Army. Never an issue but I’m sure being closeted was a drag for them.
WereBear
The problems are caused by people with problems.
Geeno
@WereBear: As always
Belafon
@shell: My favorite story, and I don’t remember if I read it here or where, but someone said they told their parents and his or her mom turnd to the dad and said “You owe me five bucks.”
Josie
@WereBear: Bingo!
raven
@Belafon: Yes!
Woodrowfan
that’s how I felt about gay guys in college, “cool, less competition for cute girls!”
Belafon
@Woodrowfan: And I always figured guys should be afraid of lesbians because they are way cuter than we are.
Edit: And yes, I realize this ignores a whole lot of stuff about sexual preferences, but I was a horny college student at one point. One of my lesbian friends and I in college would compare notes.
Gin & Tonic
@Belafon: That was here, commenter Mustang Bobby the other day.
different-church-lady
@raven: Closeted! Drag! Funny!
Uh… wait, you weren’t intending that, were you?
Belafon
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks. I couldn’t remember. It’s a great story.
Punchy
Nicely done.
ETA: beaten to the punch by DCL….
raven
@different-church-lady: Me?
NCSteve
But . . . but . . . the showers! What about the showers? What if teh gayz shoot their icky gay rays from their eyes at strapping young naked men or innocent young nubile girls in the showers and turn them gay too, causing them to have gay sex right there in front of decent people in the showers? Think what could happen to discipline! Indeed, how can you even have discipline when you’ve got people who like being disciplined in the military?
Pope Ratzy
Back in the 70’s as a young Airman living in the enlisted barracks of that winter wonderland of K.I. Sawyer AFB Michigan, there were 2 sets of roommates (at least) that everyone knew were gay. No one ever reported them or gave them any abuse. I cannot say we were more accepting of it, I am afraid it was that we were more “eeuuw icky” and just pretended we didn’t really know.
Shakezula
And yet people do find time to give a shit in the worst ways possible about race, gender, orientation, you name it. It’s almost as if human beings are pre-disposed to suck or something.
Woodrowfan
that’s WAYYYYYY more sophisticated than most horny college guys think… :)
Woodrowfan
ahem.
NotMax
Khaki is the new black.
Belafon
@Woodrowfan: I find it funny how “suck” and “blow” have lost their source meaning. It’s kind of why you actually have to point out to people why the Confederate flag is not about “Southern Heritage.”
Kay (not the front-pager)
My niece’s best friend from babyhood came out to her a couple of years ago, when they were both 15. He also told his older sister, who was not especially accepting. One day the older sister asked my niece if it bothered her when he talked about his gay crushes. My niece responded, “No, I like boys too.” So pretty much this:
boatboy_srq
@Woodrowfan: Ditto. Doing my best not to break into hysterical laughter (at the office). @Belafon: I’ve not seen “blow” recently without the unspoken “chunks” implied, so not too sure about that one. Still, and all…
boatboy_srq
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Not an especially uncommon situation. Speaking from personal experience.
phein55
I’ve got enough problems with my own sexuality, I sure don’t need to be thinking about yours.
Now that I think of it, I really resent the right wing for shoving their petty concerns down America’s throat all these years.
John M. Burt
@Belafon: That is even better than the person who said that when you come out to your family, at least one person is going to say, “Was it supposed to be a secret?”
Shakezula
@Belafon: What does fellatio have to do with the confederate flag?
TG Chicago
Please change this to sexual orientation. We all need to remember that it’s not a “preference” — that’s the language of those who want to prevent equality.
Thanks! :-)
Belafon
@Shakezula: The fact that some people don’t get exposed to the original meaning. I have told my kids after they got old enough where “suck” comes from when they say “that sucks.” I’ve told them because I find the origin of words interesting.
I’ve had a couple of people do the “the Civil War was about states’ rights” and then I show them the relevant sections of the Texas Declaration of Secession (since I’m in Texas) and I get a “well, then, that kind of lays it out.”
peach flavored shampoo
Hey Sara, don’t move to KS.
I swear Brownback is the most vile POS this side of…pretty much all sides.
boatboy_srq
@TG Chicago: “Sexual preference” IIRC was originally an LGBT term, coined to combat the thinking of that day that said homosexuality was a disease (and therefore treatable, which misconception led to countless ruined lives and more than a few thoroughly fraudulent medical studies). Making it a “preference” took it out of the medical sphere so the Reichwing couldn’t trot out their physician buddies and their whackadoodle cures. “Orientation” for some of us is a little too close to that old Conservatist thinking for some of us to be entirely comfortable using.
guachi
I’ve been in the Navy 13.5 years and counting.
Nobody cared before DADT and nobody cared after DADT.
A Ghost To Most
As an airman in the seventies, I had the acquaintance of a texan whose favorite Saturday night activity was , in his words, ‘rollin’queers’. I still base most of my distaste for texans on shit he said and did.
When I learned my younger son was gay, by being woken up my (then) drunkard older son, my response was “So? And why do you think it’s your business to tell me?”
Origuy
All clear at the Navy Yard. No shooter; someone thought they heard gunshots.
Probably fireworks; I live in east San Jose and have learned to tell the difference, but it’s not easy.
Mike in NC
How many of the Republicans running for president want to bring back DADT? Gotta pander to the bigoted base, after all.
Belafon
@efgoldman: The difference between Brownback and Paxton is Paxton was using weasle words: You can choose to not issue licenses but you might get sued. In other words, it’s not his fault if you get in trouble.
ThresherK (GPad)
The limits of the meaning of “tolerate” reminds me of this from the 1950s, when it was seen as the least (seriously, the absolute least) one could do.
“Two, four, six, eight
Who do we tolerate?
Indians! Indians!
Rah!”
-Stan Freberg, ‘Take an Indian to Lunch’
Paul in KY
@efgoldman: I do think Brownback is the most vile. Not by a lot, but boy oh boy is he a sicko. He would have made a great inquisitor.
JPL
@Belafon: The Dallas Morning News has an opinion piece on Paxton.
Time for the attorney General to face not flaunt the law. link
a special prosecutor says he’ll ask a Collin County grand jury to indict Paxton on first-degree felony charges related to violations of state securities law — violations that Paxton has already admitted to.
Earlier someone mentioned the possible indictment. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
Paxton needs to read the bible.
cmorenc
But…but…if I’m a straight guy hunkered down in a foxhole during live combat, that might mean I’m taking refuge in a gay foxhole – with soldiers whose guns shoot rainbows instead of bullets, whimper-fi and all that.
If you take offense to this – well, your snark-detector might be in need of adjustment.
WereBear
@Paul in KY: Brownback gives me an awful vibe.
In my evangelical youth, we would get visiting preachers, and every so often one would be utterly puritanical and prune-mouthed, with some miserable looking wife and everyone in his group would scuttle around, and that would invariably be the one who wouldn’t be on the circuit anymore… because of something the adults were gossiping about.
Like the first time I saw Huckabee all I could comprehend was those mean little boar-hog eyes. Cruel faces… and yet, people follow them.
Felonius Monk
@JPL:
I think it would be more appropriate if the bible was shoved up Paxton’s ass, so he could internalize it’s real message.
LanceThruster
Reposted as pertaining to the topic –
I was in line at the bank the other day and a woman asked me what I thought of Bruce Jenner and showed me the VF photo on her smart phone. I told her that “I think it’s a good thing that I don’t care.” and went on to explain that people should be free to follow their own happiness and own sense of self. We agreed that society is moving towards the point that this is no big deal (or at least perceived as something that should not be).
I put no more thought into his/her ‘conversion’ than that of someone getting a nose job. Granted, having your ‘junk’ bobbed is some serious surgery, but that’s the freedom that adults should possess.
Sad_Dem
Speaking of gays in the military, here’s a sample from our recent past that I was just reading this morning: Oliver Sipple.
NotMax
@Lance Thruster
Or Bobbitted.
Paul in KY
@WereBear: I can guarantee you that he would have loved to burn young witches at the stake. All the time asking them to confess their sins, so they can be drowned, instead of being burned.
TG Chicago
@boatboy_srq: “Preference” is certainly better than “disease”, but you don’t get immutable human rights based on your preferences. I’d prefer to see the ocean when I wake up, but that doesn’t give me the right to live on beachside real estate I can’t afford.
If you don’t like “orientation”, I’m fine with considering other options, but I can’t see how “preference” could possibly be better.
NotMax
@Paul in KY
Time to stop gilding the lily and call it what it is: sexuality, period.
raven
@NotMax:
Flying Burrito Bros.-“Sin City” from “Guilded Palace of Sin”
This old earthquake’s gonna leave me in the poorhouse. . .
cahuenga
“Indifference”… As it should be.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
It’s kind of fascinating that celebrity coming-out stories are mostly met with a “meh” these days unless it’s something uncommon (like Kaitlyn Jenner).
From what I’ve been told, my brother-in-law wisely waited to come out until there was a ton of other family drama going on, so no one really had the energy to get worked up about it. I would love to tease him more about marriage, but things seem to be going pretty well with his new boyfriend so I don’t want to put too much pressure on them too soon.
Amir Khalid
@efgoldman:
I have always believed that “gaydar”, the ability to distinguish gay people from straight, is not really a thing. People often think they have good gaydar, but as with other abilities one tends to overestimate oneself.
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: I think it is a thing, and you either have it or you don’t. But it’s not necessarily related to whether you are gay, yourself.
Or, alternatively, I resemble your remark and I am overestimating myself.
Either way, I am so glad to see you are home and (apparently) doing better.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
I definitely had better “gaydar” when I was single, but that may have been been because most gay men are polite enough to drop hints to single women that they’re really not available. Since I’m no longer flirting for a purpose, they don’t have to send me those signals anymore.
Interesting thing a gay male friend told me: the signals vary from country to country, so he was occasionally embarrassed that he was rebuffed by guys from Britain or Australia whose body language etc was read as gay in the US but was normal straight behavior in the UK.
LanceThruster
@NotMax:
On caveat comes to mind. Howard Stern had a sex reassignment guest as a regular on his show for a while (Siobahn?), and it was sad to hear him/her explain the disappointment of the mechanics of his/her new plumbing and the loss of feeling compared to the ‘original’ equipment. I got the sense that he/she wishes he/she could unring the bell.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I agree. Part of gaydar is a combination of sender and receiver; if someone wants to send a signal it’s easier.
Many of the famous stars of yesteryear got a “meh” from me growing up… and most of them would turn out to be gay :) Long distance gaydar or just projecting macho signals that left me cold?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@LanceThruster:
As I understand it, a lot of transgender people will get appearance-related plastic surgery (nose/chin job, breast removal, etc) but leave the genitals alone because it’s a major crapshoot and you usually don’t end up with something functional in the end.
That’s also the reason a lot of intersexed people (people who were born with ambiguous genitals, FKA hermaphrodites) are pushing to change the recommendations and say that, unless there’s a functional issue, they should not do genital surgery on babies to make them “look” a certain way because it removes a lot of the sensitivity and can cause problems in later life.
I don’t demand that my cisgendered friends pull down their pants and show me what they’ve got, so I’m not sure what some people’s obsession is with policing what genitalia transgendered people have.
boatboy_srq
@efgoldman: @Amir Khalid: It’s definitely a regional phenomenon: behavior patterns that are normal in some regions are just nawt raaaat elsewhere, and sensitivities are based on cultural norms as much as anything else. My ‘dar got honed in the UK and NorCal, and nowadays in the Company Town I find myself with more false positives than false negatives: I swear to FSM half of the Beltway types I run into have to have BFs/FBs on the side, but they’re still happily domesticated with wives and kids and apparently all’s well on the home front. I can totally understand how K would not be in tune with H: “passing” doesn’t just work on straight people.
boatboy_srq
@TG Chicago: I definitely understand where you are with this. I’m just still a bit irked that what is pseudo-genetically-determined is acceptable when it was once something that could be medicated and/or selected prior to birth. I recall one or two screeds by RWNJs that suggested abortion was acceptable if your offspring would be That Way™. I’m pro-choice, but I don’t think that’s a reason to make that choice and I don’t like the anti-choicers making that kind of exception. Also, rights are immutable based on one’s humanity; sexual orientation isn’t any different from pigmentation or procreational plumbing or any other distinction when it comes down to it: we should be free to choose to be what we want just as much as we should be free to be what we were born.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the additional info. I hope everyone would make as an informed a decision as possible for themselves, regardless of what they ultimately decide to do.
PurpleGirl
@Belafon: That was Mustang Bobby, one or two days ago. A couple of people responded that they liked his parents or wanted them for their own.