Wankers in Texas are not going quietly:
Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton on Sunday told clerks and judges in the Lone Star State their religious beliefs could enable them to flout the U.S. Supreme Court’s historic ruling legalizing same-sex marriage, while adding they may face litigation if they refuse to issue licenses or perform gay unions.
“It is important to note that any clerk who wishes to defend their religious objections and who chooses not to issue licenses may well face litigation and/or a fine,” Paxton said in a statement. “But, numerous lawyers stand ready to assist clerks defending their religious beliefs, in many cases on a pro-bono basis, and I will do everything I can from this office to be a public voice for those standing in defense of their rights.”
The opinion – which was requested last week by Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick – comes two days after the high court in an historic ruling struck down gay marriage bans in Texas and a dozen other states. Some county clerks across Texas began immediately issuing licenses to same-sex couples, while many others said they would wait until the state updated its licensing form or until Paxton released guidance on how to proceed.
Importantly, Paxton said the specifics of each case would be important, and that clerks or judges who had a deputy or other employee that would be willing to service same-sex couples might be able to avoid litigation.
Love the verbiage- “may well.” No, you ignorant shitheel, you will be facing litigation and/or a fine. I hate these people.
Mike J
If they don’t like being clerks, maybe they could go to work at the Jehovah’s Witness blood bank.
ruemara
Well… if they did via a referendum vote, we need to offer asylum to decent Texans who are actually loyal to the United States of America. I’m too partisan and lefty, but I suppose the rest of America is just as worn out as mom with a passel of kids who keep haranguing her for an ice cream when she’s said no 20 times.
Yatsuno
@Mike J: Noted in last thread: friend of mine who’s a law instructor in Texas actually finds this funny. He quoted the exact statute that is gonna make these suckers pay through the nose. Best part: it was Texas law he was describing, not federal. So this should be fun.
Belafon
My parents who, a few years ago wouldn’t have stomached the idea, were happy for the 75 and 72 year old that got married here in Dallas. Most people are already over it, and a number of them (including my parents) are finally ready to take down the Confederate flags. Paxton and the others won’t really pay a penalty (it is Texas) but they’re going to lose on this and will have to stop talking about it soon.
Pogonip
Cole, how is Thurston doing at obedience school?
No independence for Texas, sorry. Their economy is mainly sucking at the U.S. defense tit; if they succeeded we’d just end up sending them democracy and suitcases full of cash.
Belafon
@Yatsuno: I would love to know which one since I am here in Texas.
Corner Stone
Thanks, Cole. Really appreciate it.
Hal
Huh. Clerks are tax payer supported employees? The kind that do not deserve to unionize because they are public employees? But they can refuse to do their public, tax payer supported jobs due to their deeply held religious beliefs. Ok then.
Corner Stone
@Pogonip:
You don’t actually know anything about Texas or it’s economy, do you?
Belafon
@Pogonip: Texas is one of the states that sends more money in taxes to the federal government than it receives.
Texas would never secede because they would have to pay and staff their own military.
Pogonip
@Corner Stone: Only what I learned in 20 years of dealing with Texas contractors. There are as many of them as there are fleas on a dog, performing about the same function. Also you have all the businesses that grow up around, and depend on, large bases.
scuffletuffle
Start pulling federal institutions out of Tejas, starting with the military. Lets see how well they do without the cash inflow.
Corner Stone
@scuffletuffle: The ignorance continues.
Yatsuno
@Belafon: It’s on a Skype chat on another computer I can’t get to right now. Well maybe. Hang on I’m about to get creative.
@scuffletuffle: There is a very large IRS complex in Austin and a call centre in Dallas. I’m sure they’d get along just fine without those federal dollars. And I’m certain no income tax Texas easily has the funds to support all the public and private universities without federal financial aid. They ain’t going nowhere and they know it. They don’t have enough oil to be a petrostate.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Corner Stone:
http://www.thetexaseconomy.org/economic-outlook/economy/media/98-986_TexasMilitaryInstallations.pdf
Corner Stone
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): And?
Pogonip
@Yatsuno: True, but they might make a go of it when the suitcases of Federal cash start flowing in.
Kropadope
@Belafon:
I have no idea about the structure of Texas’s economy; but just because it pays more taxes than it receives, doesn’t mean that it can’t also be receiving huge amounts of defense contract money.
Belafon
@Yatsuno: Texas has a fairly diverse economy: Ever heard of TI or Dell for starters. We also currently generate the largest absolute amount of renewable energy in the country (even though we do everything possible to ruin that distinction). San Antonio is becoming a huge area in biotechnology.
scuffletuffle
@Yatsuno: yes, you are right about the IRS, kind of interesting. Maybe just a threat to shut it down would shut them up.
Belafon
@Kropadope: Yeah, but the fact that we pay more out than we get back means that the money we would no longer send can cover stuff the federal government is no longer paying for.
Don’t get me wrong, it wouldn’t be pretty in this state at all, and Texas will never go through with it anyway, but we’re not exactly helpless here.
shell
Wasn’t it only last month that texas had all that horrendous flooding and Ted Cruz was yelling for Federal help?
*******
On Cspan the other day, they had a call-in on the Gay marriage ruling. Most of the calls were opposed, and most of them went on about ‘the Bible says….the Bible says…” etc.
Get it thru your thick skulls, people, this is a Republic, NOT a Theocracy!
debbie
@shell:
No, it’s not a Theocracy they’re itching for, it’s Christian Sharia.
Yatsuno
@Belafon: Title XLI (1988). Took me forever and a day to fin it but it could not elude me forever!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I do love the alliance between the REAL American Texas hard right and the Russians. Nothing says patriotism than that.
JPL
Either you uphold the constitution of the United States or you quit. You don’t get to pick and choose which ones you uphold.
Felonius Monk
@Belafon: Do you really think that Dell and TI and other national corporations that have big operations in Texas would remain there once Texas is no longer part of the U.S.?
I admit that this whole discussion is a little far-fetched because secession will never happen, but it’s fun to speculate and would be irresponsible of us not to.
A guy
God I hope if Texas succeeds West Virginia goes with!
Omnes Omnibus
@A guy: I am calling parody troll.
Felonius Monk
@A guy:
Wait just a minute. That would mean that Balloon Juice would become a foreign blog and probably wind up on somebody’s subversive watchlist.
Keith G
So what’s the number given of clerks who said they will not serve gay citizens?
What’s the number given of clerks who said they would have a problem serving gay citizens?
Do we have any specific information at all about the process of issuing licences?
Granted, that is in Austin. Nonetheless, I have a feeling that Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton’s chest puffery aside, this will turn out to be a nothing burger but with extra cheese.
Hate is not a good emotion, Cole. That is what motivates the crazy Right.
Josie
Your headline and the Chronicle’s headline are both wrong and inflammatory. The officials’ statements about backing people’s religious freedom was stupid enough on their own, but they did not tell people to flout the decision. Contrary to expectations, most clerks issued the marriage licenses and marriages took place in many counties, including the one I just moved from and the one I moved to. There are many intelligent, rational people who live in this state. Unfortunately, we are so gerrymandered that our votes don’t count and many have given up voting in favor of just trying to keep our heads above water economically. Stupid headlines like yours and attitudes like many expressed here are not helpful. I dare say there are bigots in many other states besides Texas, but no one ever invites them to secede.
Keith G
@Felonius Monk:
I got news for ya, buddy.
JPL
@shell: When we had a state amendment about Gay marriage in GA, the legislator who introduced had committed adultery and was divorced. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Baud
If all the red states seceded, whose throat would we get to ram gay marriage down?
A guy
Jpl? Did he commit adultery with a chick or a dude?
JPL
@A guy: So true. If it were same sex, he’d be done.
The Sailor
@Josie:
No other state’s governor said they would secede.
FlyingToaster
@Josie:
Actually, we do. Every goddamn day. /troll
In all seriousness, secession wouldn’t work; but unfortunately the rhetoric has been ratcheting up the past 10 years so that it looks like 1830-1860. And I’m damned worried we’ll end up as some hellhole LIC civil war, undeclared, making everyone even more fucking miserable.
Josie
@The Sailor: Neither did ours. This is what he said.
I can’t stand Rick Perry, but he very carefully did not advocate secession.
Aleta
Let the secessionists have a spot of land and let Trump put a wall up and run that place instead.
Keith G
@The Sailor: Actually, he did not.
I dislike Perry as much as I do like a factual representation of what happens in our world.
Perry, overly ambitious dope that he is, was having some fun with a reporter’s question and the press and White House reaction to it did nothing but increase Perry’s stock with the ijit brigade. I invite you to use the proper search term to look this up.
edit
@Josie: Dammit Josie, I was going to make him/her work for it. ;)
the Conster
@Josie:
So, Perry said it’s a nice union we got here, it would be a shame if
we don’t get what we wantanything happened to it. That’s not a threat to keep secession as an option? Really?Howard Beale IV
New money (No way will they be allowed to use the USD), New treaties, multiple borders, New tax structures
(foreign and domestic), New military, companies will have one year to keep CHQ in New Republic of Texas or Repatriate back to US, citizens will need to decide their citizenship, etc. etc….
This won’t be no Czech/Slovak split.
Keith G
@the Conster: I am guessing he meant that in the same way Obama meant he was against Gay marriage.
Politicians and their mouths…..
edit:
(@ruemara ) Opps -1
nominus
…that comment section on the secession story….sweet jumping Jesus that is a metric shitload of stupid. It makes me wonder if I should pick a state (or country) to apply for refugee status if they do it, or just wait the 2 months it would take for their secession idea to collapse and we’d be back in the USA.
Howard Beale IV
Now that reject Abbot signed open carry I’m waiting for some whackadoodle to drop some flashbangs at a big event and watch all the ammosexuals start killing each other heedlessly.
Howard Beale IV
BREAKING: Chris Squire, co-founder of Progrock band Yes, died from leukemia, age 67.
Josie
@Howard Beale IV: So true. It doesn’t make you anxious to attend any large public gatherings, does it?
Keith G
@Howard Beale IV: So….by big event….you mean some place with kids and other innocents?
Felonius Monk
Didn’t the current governor of Texas say he was expecting the US Army to invade Texas soon so that the Chinese could convert old Walmart stores into 99cent Stores or something? Or was that just static from the tin foil?
scav
There’s a wee bit of difference between being a big state in one of the most important nations internationally and being a decent sized nation all on your lonesome right next to the sleeping elephant (let alone a sleeping elephant that might be less than perfectly gruntled and willing to share the blankies after the dramatic flounce out the door).
The Sailor
Keith G
@Josie: There was a shooting at the tail end of the San Francisco Pride event. No open carry there. Just some kids who had a dispute.
I am not sure what correlation is shown by such a data point.
/devil’s advocate
Cacti
See how far those Rubles go in paying for your disaster relief.
PaulW
@A guy:
I think you need to check your autocorrect.
Also, the plan for Texan secession is that they leave the US, and Mexico brings up the fact that the peace treaty they signed in 1848 was with the US, not Texas, and Mexico would very much like to have the border reset at the Nueces River thank you very much. Let’s see how quickly Texas – without all the US military gear – falls against the Mexican army.
TaMara (BHF)
Wow all you haters, Bristol’s pregnancy was totally planned. And she was not paid to speak about abstinence.
I can’t even…
Anne Laurie
@Felonius Monk: Ah, yes, the Jade Helm paranoia. To be fair, seems like Gov. Abbott only said he took seriously the fact that so many of the folks who’d voted for him were absolutely convinced that Alex Jones’ elaborate phantasy just might have “something” behind it. Were I Governor of Texas, I’d take those folks seriously my own self, and make sure I never turned my back on them, while sidling sloooowly out of the room…
boatboy_srq
@A guy: Does it matter? It may have been legal and it may not, but there’s this funny thingy called a Commandment (“Thou shalt not commit adultery” IIRC) that Reichwingnuts insist takes precedence over all laws (and prophets, for that matter).
Cacti
Ed Schultz has decided to join fellow “ex-Republican” Jim Webb on the “leave the confederate flag alone” platform.
Calls taking the flag down “desecration of American history”.
I’ve long had my doubts about how “ex” of a Republican Ed actually was.
Thoughtful David
So, why don’t some vegetarians with strong beliefs working in county offices just decide that they won’t issue any more hunting licenses? And some anti-gun folks with strong beliefs refuse to issue gun permits? I’m sure Dan Patrick will be quick to defend them–I mean after all, it’s all in the name of religious freedom, right?
Baud
@Cacti:
The linked article says he supports taking it down from public buildings.
@Thoughtful David:
Wrong religion.
LWA (Liberal With Attitude)
@Felonius Monk:
“Governor Abbot- We checked the signal…THE CRAZY IS COMING FROM INSIDE YOUR OFFICE!”
NotMax
@Cacti
Sheer idiocy.
As the only thing(s) which can be desecrated are thing(s) which are sacred (a peculiarly religious designation or status), it’s pure Grade A bullpuckey.
America and American history are not holy, spiritual or objects of religious veneration.
Roger Moore
@Howard Beale IV:
We couldn’t stop them if they wanted to make the dollar their official currency. But they wouldn’t have control over the Federal Reserve, which would mean bad things for their economy the next time it was in a different stage of the business cycle from the US.
Cacti
@NotMax:
Not to mention, we’ve now spent a century and a half on rehabilitating the “good character” of assorted secessionists, traitors, and slave owners, for fear that it might hurt the feelings of the southern states.
We’re long overdue for a reevaluation of the confederacy, and the motives of its supporters and sympathizers.
Ed’s worried that after 150 years, we’re moving too fast and not “being smart about this”.
GFY Big Ed.
the Conster
@Cacti:
He should just stick to labor issues, and stay away from white guy agenda issues.
ThresherK (GPad)
Time to pull all of America’s military $ out of Secessionland, just as a precaution.
All you base does belong to us, Texas.
Howard Beale IV
@Roger Moore: True, I forgot that some African countries actually use USD as their currency-but everything else would still apply that were non-monetary related.
be an interesting fight for flag carrier-American or United?
Elie
“…was blind, but now, I SEE” —
They are not aware enough and are deeply afraid of “seeing”. How do they then process a lifetime of “wrong”? How do they process their next steps? This is world shattering if your whole frame rested on the honor of this set of views and beliefs. You can’t just concede to this in one step.
I believe that we shouldn’t want to MAKE them admit their blindness or expect them to see.. they will have to come to their own vision — by the GRACE of God (or good luck, fate or awareness — whatever you want to call it)..People are sometimes the most vocal and angry before they have epiphany…
Corner Stone
@PaulW:
Thank you. I haven’t laughed that hard in a long time.
“Falls against the Mexican army” that is some seriously good shit, right there.
Corner Stone
@Felonius Monk:
Why wouldn’t they? If Fortune 500 companies will do inversions to HQ in Ireland for the tax breaks, then why not Texas? You act like we couldn’t produce our own energy or have exports to other nations around the world.
Come take the refineries from us, or the Permian Basin, or the wind farms, or the cattle or the rice or…
I hate stupid fucking threads like these.
Morat20
I’m just going to be blunt.
As fun as this is to mock, nobody’s going to secede. We all know it. There’s three types of people calling for it: Idiots, people scamming idiots, and trolls.
If you took the state with the highest support for secession, got them to totally believe it was their call entirely (no federal goons or hard feelings, just a parting of the way) it wouldn’t pass a popular vote if you rounded everyone up and had them vote that week.
If there was an actual campaign, and it got explained what secession would actually entail — you’d have the crazies (27%!) voting for it and no one else. Based entirely on “What do you mean I can’t go to New York or Iowa without a passport?” and “What do you mean the US military is saying “bye!” and taking all their stuff, and leaving us just concrete and empty buildings?” and “What do you mean, our ports and airports are no longer attractive to your business because you don’t want to deal with customs and taxes twice to get goods to the US?”.
So honestly, other than to make fun of twits, what’s the point?
It's Not The Fall, It's The Landing
Should Texas vote to secede from the United States, I’d imagine the oil fields and processing facilities would be just the first of many targets destroyed by US bombers, followed by anything else of substantial economic value.
Also, they could forget about shipping or receiving any goods via the Gulf of Mexico, unless they spend a lot of money building a big-ass navy prior to secession.
Corner Stone
@It’s Not The Fall, It’s The Landing: Why would you imagine any of those things would happen? Why would the US military bomb some of the largest refining capacity in the NA area? Why would you imagine Texas would need a blue water Navy?
A lot of you idiots seem to think the US does not trade or import/export with a lot of countries around the world.
Corner Stone
Somehow the USA occupies all landmass in the Americas. Who knew?
Corner Stone
@It’s Not The Fall, It’s The Landing:
Fucking ridiculous. Where the fuck do you think the Keystone XL Pipeline was going to terminate?
Moron.
Corner Stone
@Morat20:
Actually, there are two types of idiots talking about it. Cole, and people too stupid to think for themselves. Ok, so that’s one type of idiot, granted.
the Conster
@Elie:
This. All of this. Something shifted in that direction this week. It was an auspicious week, in the sense that things that are seen cannot be unseen, and we’ve seen a lot of things happen just this week. No going back.
It's Not The Fall, It's The Landing
Re: destroying the Texas oilfields, why would the US necessarily want to buy oil from a hostile nation, just because they used to be one of our states?
Bombing Texas wouldn’t be _my_ first choice, but all those who talk about secession seem to assume that it would happen with no hard feelings or repercussions, beyond just getting the paperwork sorted out.
What if the the White House and/or Congress at the time were occupied by vindictive, bloody minded individuals out primarily for their own political gain? (I know, something like that could never happen in the good old USA.)
Piss them off sufficiently, and things might not turn out as well for an independent Texas as the proponents of secession assume.
It wouldn’t even be necessary to use nukes, though it might be instructive to set off EMPs over Dallas, Houston, Austin, etc, just in case the secessionists were counting on revenue from tech, finance, and other non-oil portions of the economy.
Let ’em eat armadillos, with a side order of that brush that W. Bush used to clear from his “ranch,” and wash it all down with a nice tall glass of crude!
Elie
@the Conster:
I think that is what happened to gay rights… small victories that moved the needle. To me the biggest was the realization many people had that gay people were people that they knew and loved in their own families… not some strange “other”. You can’t “unsee” that.
There is so much to let process and “sink in”…
Corner Stone
@It’s Not The Fall, It’s The Landing: Jesus Christ, you’re dumber than the John Cole’s of the world who think Texas might ever secede.
EMPs?
Ever hear of a tiny place named Saudi Arabia?
Fucking fool.
notoriousJRT
@Josie:
Nah. He just threatened to.
Nice little Union you got going there. Be a shame if something happened to it.
Bill
I’m starting to think all of this is going to end with the National Guard being called out somewhere south of the Mason Dixon line.
We are never going to see eye to eye on some very fundamental issues. It’s time to admit the dream is over.
mclaren
Why stop with litigation and fines? If these assholes won’t uphold the law, remove ’em and send in the National Guard.
We did for school desegregation. See how far these creeps get when they’re in jail for obstruction of justice and National Guard corporals are manning the clerk’s office handing out marriage license.