Unsurprisingly, the @WeeklyStandard Alaska Cruise lineup is whiter than the glaciers they pretend aren't melting. pic.twitter.com/xMu2F6gJSL
— Nima Shirazi (@WideAsleepNima) May 29, 2015
There's never an iceberg when you really need one –> https://t.co/FZe9YbsTmC
— Billmon (@billmon1) May 29, 2015
More from the “Life Among the Repubs” file, via McKay Coppins’ twitter feed: evidence that Hugh Hewitt may have inhaled too many paint fumes while hagiographing Dubya, from the nutball eccentricly conservative Washington Examiner:
Saying it’s “obvious,” best-selling author and national talk show host Hugh Hewitt is urging all of the nearly two dozen potential Republican presidential candidates to pick 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney as their vice presidential choice.
In his upcoming book The Queen, directed at Hillary Rodham Clinton, Hewitt said that Romney has the influence and status of former Vice President Dick Cheney, making him a formidable campaigner and White House partner.
That, he added in the book provided to Secrets, will force Clinton to make an equally top-notch pick, not somebody like Joe Biden, the “lovable dolt” chosen by Barack Obama.
The eventual GOP nominee, wrote Hewitt, should pick Romney for just one term, using his fundraising power and credibility to beat Clinton. By serving just one term, Romney wouldn’t be a political threat to the president he serves and it would create loyalty from potential successors…
That’s a strategic proposal absurd in so many and various ways as to approach the Wingnut Event Horizon. And, before the question of nutpicking is raised, remember Hewitt is not just another wingnut on the internet — he’s going to emcee the second GOP primary debate. (I know the usual verb would be ‘moderate’, but Politico notes that Hewitt “will not moderate the debate… but he will participate in a question-and-answer session.”) I can only hope some humorist will convince him to wear a red jacket and a top hat…
***********
Apart from mocking the RWNJ circus, what’s on the agenda for the day?
Steeplejack
Okay, I’m definitely out of here, what with the bigfooting and all. Morning crew, take it away!
different-church-lady
Yes we needed the rain.
I just didn’t need so much of it coming in the living room ceiling.
Amir Khalid
Yes, of course. Mitt would love to play second banana to ¡Jeb! Or to Ben Carson. Or to Carly Fiorina. Or to Scott Walker. Or to …
Giggle. Snort. BWAHAHAHAHA …
Say, how much influence and status does Dick Cheney have in Washington DC now? As I recall, in his last couple of years, W Bush finally had to take away some of Cheney’s power, because Cheney was doing too much damage for even W to ignore.
Aleta
Some friends, likewise tired of clowns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqgNWLKagZM
NotMax
Aha, the ol’ Bert Parks gambit.
Al Swearengen
Calling Biden a “dolt” while he’s mourning his son. I’ll let the class waft.
raven
The best use of Whiter Shade is in Von Trier’s Breaking the Waves
eta At 1:40 “Jan’s Illness” but it’s all of the chapter titles are cool.
Mustang Bobby
@Al Swearengen: Yes, but say something snotty about Sarah Palin or Dick Cheney and you’re a boor. These folks have standards; mostly double.
OzarkHillbilly
@Mustang Bobby:
Couldn’t tell from the lineup for the cruise.
geg6
@Amir Khalid:
The House loonies have been having Dick in to speak to them in secret meetings for months, if not years now. It’s his wise words that have made the House such an efficient legislating machine. And no, I’m not kidding.
LWA (Liberal With Attitude)
OK, deal.
Vice President Barack Obama!
Please proceed, wingnuts.
Amir Khalid
@geg6:
Face-palm.
Schlemazel
Huge Fuckwit really would look right in a ringmasters costume. I can’t imagine the level of inanity that event will bring. I’m not worried the LHC will cause a black hole & destroy Earth but this event could easily cause a black hole of stupid & swallow us all.
Speaking of morons, I finally have reached the point where I am not going to carry my incompetent boss, he is now floundering badly and management is noticing he has done nothing for the last 2 years. I am going to move on.
dmsilev
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude): Jimmy Carter would also be available.
As would Bill Clinton. Worth it just for the humor value.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
I hope you’re joking. That’s one of my many home fears.
BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: Bill Clinton and O-man wouldn’t be eligible for VP, neither could be President if anything should happen to the President.
Baud
I hope they charter the entire ship. I’d hate to accidentally share an Alaska cruise with those dolts.
Zinsky
Just Wow! Sounds like you should bring a white hood and a burnable cross for that Alaskan cruise! Hugh Hewitt is one of the dumbest men on radio and has always had a hard-on for the Clintons. He should give the Clintons have of his weekly paycheck since he has made a fortune vilifying and spreading false stories about them.
dmsilev
@BillinGlendaleCA: Is there a requirement that the VP be eligible to serve as P? I’m not sure there is. I would assume that if the VP were ineligible, any succession would simply skip them and go to the President Pro Tem of the Senate and then to the Speaker.
Baud
@dmsilev:
Speaker is third in line.
Schlemazel
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I remember some conservative once arguing that the law says a person can’t be ELECTED President more than twice. But honestly, who needs the distraction during a campaign? It would be great if the nominated bozo chose Willard simply because it would reopen all the wounds he caused in 2012 and signal to the loons that the money still rules in the GOP.
BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: Yes there is a requirement, per Bill Clinton. Also, it’s Speaker, then President Pro Tem.
BruceFromOhio
Yuck. Reading Hewitt elevate Romney is like reading about a dog eating it’s own barf. Yeah, he’s just a dog, and that’s what dogs do, it’s still disgusting.
Kay
I went to a county Dem meeting last week and the majority speculation was Julian Castro.
Majority SPECULATION :)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/26/julian-castro-hillary-clinton-veep/?wprss=rss_national
danielx
Hugh Hewitt, the Dumbest Man on the Intertubes? No, wait, that would be Jim Hoft, though I hear he’s given up the crown to Chuck C. Johnson…in any case, Mittens ain’t never gonna play rhythm to anybody else’s lead without a guaranteed option on the Oval Office as part of the package and the base would never accept him within breathing distance of that same office. Mitt as Secretary of the Interior maybe, since loosing the reins on the rape and pillage of federal lands for private gain would seem to be right up his alley and would piss off libs in the bargain. Win-win!
But speaking of dumb, I seem to recall that a previous edition of this Alaska cruise was the frozen tundra from which miraculously sprang the reason for Rich Lowry’s vision of starbursts in his knickers, Snowbilly Snooki her very own self. It remain to be seen whether the current production will plumb the same depths of stupid, but any conference with Bill Kristol and Fred Barnes included among the headliners must be considered fertile ground for bad, horrible, no good, terrible ideas. John Bolton as Secretary of War – er, Defense – and Tom Cotton as Secretary of State, maybe?
Kay
It’s sad we’re going to be denied Dick Cheney losing a presidential primary. I don’t even think that’s fair. Watching Liz Cheney’s campaign was delightful.
BillinGlendaleCA
@BillinGlendaleCA:
12th Amendment. So Bill Clinton and Obama wouldn’t be eligible, Jimmy Carter would be.
Iowa Old Lady
@different-church-lady: Ack. Maybe the roof just needs a little patch. We had a leak around the base of a vent pipe last year. It was an easy repair.
@Al Swearengen: Calling Biden a “dolt” at all is preposterous. You don’t have to be mean to be smart.
@Kay: I’d love it to be Castro. He’s impressive.
EconWatcher
Is it just me, or do all four of them in the Alaska cruise lineup look like they’re clenching their sphincters?
OzarkHillbilly
Over at the Guardian, they are doing some long over due work and counting the fatalities caused by police in America.
Some early analysis, here.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
WaPo is doing a similar analysis.
Full metal Wingnut
@Baud: Speaker is second in line, VP is first in line. The President isn’t “in line,” he/she is just President.
Baud
@Full metal Wingnut:
Even more frightening.
Kay
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yeah, I think what I consider the rise of Democratic mayors as national figures is interesting. You could look at it as a plus- that’s where the Democrats are- but you could also look at it as an indication of weakness at the state level because there have always been a lot of Democratic mayors and there were also more Democratic governors.
It worries me mostly in the midwest because I don’t think they want to lose that block of states regularly (state level). That’s a pretty crucial block of states for Democrats, the upper midwest. They can’t retreat at the state level there. They can’t start ceding MI, OH, WI and (potentially) Minnesota, state level. I was glad to see they won PA because it looked like it was spreading :)
Maybe the bleeding has stopped but they still need a real push or they’re looking at east coast/west coast, state level, potentially, if they can’t make gains.
I think Kasich is getting ready to overplay his hand (again). His new tax cut push looks like Kansas. It’s extreme. It’s amazing how relentless they are. They always, always push further Right.
ThresherK
@NotMax: Please, God, let there be no swimsuit competition at this year’s cruise.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@different-church-lady:
Ugh, such a bummer.
We got rain inside for many years during VERY heavy rain…including in the basement.
I finally got the nerve to have somebody look at the flashing around the dormers upstairs, and not only did the water stop coming in the living room, but also the basement.
Fluid dynamics are strange.
The boy is off to his last day of high school.
OzarkHillbilly
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): What’s he got planned for tomorrow?
MattF
I suppose Kristol and Hewitt would get starbursts over a Cheney/Romney ticket. Maybe we’re just being trolled.
Germy Shoemangler
Feeling ripped off. Wife’s $pr1nt phone stopped working. Took it to the $pr1nt store. (It’s under warranty) They told her they can’t replace it, send it someplace else. She sends it someplace else, they send it back, can’t fix it, they say they found evidence of water damage (little battery sticker turned pink). Phone has never been ANYWHERE NEAR WATER.
Googled it out of curiosity. Message boards are full of people saying “WTF? They told me my warranty is voided because of water damage, but it was never wet”
I wish there was some regulation and oversight of these crooks.
She couldn’t sleep last night, so stressed out by the run-around. Which meant I couldn’t sleep.
I’m sure the crooks sleep like babies, though.
debbie
@MattF:
I’d almost pay to see a Fiorina/Romney ticket. The smiles through gritted teeth would be priceless.
Germy Shoemangler
@debbie: I remember when Mitt and wife appeared onstage with Christie. Mitt wife clearly and palpably DID NOT LIKE Christie. Her nostrils curled like he gave off an odor.
I can imagine if Fiorina DID somehow run with Mitt, there would be some inevitable conflict with Mitt wife. Very subtle aft first. Perhaps a wrong word, a sidelong glance, and then they’d be enemies. But they’d have to put on a show of friendship for “you people” and it’d be fun to watch.
OzarkHillbilly
@Germy Shoemangler: I just tried to send them a nasty note saying I will never use them. Their website locked up my computer. Sorry.
MomSense
@different-church-lady:
Oh no! Sorry to hear that. I’ve been there and done that and never want to go through that again.
debbie
@Germy Shoemangler:
Ah, but it’s the inevitable “My business sense is better than yours” that would be the real treat.
Germy Shoemangler
@OzarkHillbilly: What infuriated me was when they were running their tv commercials with their smug CEO riding in the back of a limo, talking his big ideas: (basically, pay mee)
Patricia Kayden
That Alaska cruise with all those Rightwingers sounds like so much fun!!! Sarah Palin should have been added to up the craziness factor.
Romney lost soundly to President Obama in 2012. What’s so fascinating about him that some Conservatives are still pining for him? He couldn’t even beat the Negro Communist after the worst tragedy in human history (Benghazi) occurred on his watch, for goodness sake.
Kay
I;m genuinely curious how Congressional Democrats think they can “influence” the trade deal once they pass Fast Track. The deal will be done when they get it. They won’t even be able to pass additional legislation to temper any downside or get something in exchange for the vote because the GOP controls both chambers and they will have already given them Fast Track. This idea that they somehow will get something in exchange for Fast Track after they pass Fast Track is just nonsense.
Hopefully this guy has read the trade deal, because that’s what he’s getting after he votes for Fast Track. I hope I don’t hear claims after that Democrats thought they could “make it better”. No, they didn’t.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/labor-targets-ami-bera-as-warning-shot-on-trade-118468.html#ixzz3buGg9hM8
Germy Shoemangler
@debbie: True. Inevitably Mitt would make some remark or another about how much better he did than her, perhaps during a policy discussion, and then angry sparks, and then he’d give her a buyout to leave his campaign. Or a golden parachute to float gently out of his administration.
They see governance as one big bizness. And are amazed that there are people who don’t.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay: Castro would be a great pick for VP. Hope that happens.
Germy Shoemangler
@Patricia Kayden:
They probably couldn’t or wouldn’t meet her price.
Belafon
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude): Sadly, can’t happen. Obama can’t suddently become president if Clinton or Sanders was to die in the first year of office.
Belafon
@dmsilev:
It’s the only job requirement for the office of VP. The VP has to be eligible to take over as president. This also means that the VP has to be a natural born citizen, over 35, etc.
MattF
@Germy Shoemangler: I doubt that the Mittwife would be so subtle. She married Mitt, after all.
Kay
@Patricia Kayden:
I don’t really believe in the strategic Vice President idea. I imagine if Clinton has a good relationship with him and wants him he’ll be her pick. I don’t think Vice President’s have any huge upside, although I guess they could have huge downside if there were scandal or an implosion or something. I don’t think Joe Biden changed any minds on Obama. I think he was sent out to rally people who are partisan Democrats in certain traditionally democratic sub-sets and those people would vote for the D candidate under nearly any circumstances. I don’t think Biden moved the election for Obama.
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: Perceptive comments, as always.
Paul in KY
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude): I like your style! Damn, that would freak em out.
Brachiator
Hugh Hewitt is the poor man’s David Brooks.
Paul in KY
@BillinGlendaleCA: Doesn’t it just say they can’t be ‘elected’ more than twice? Ascending due to some catastrophe would not be being ‘elected’.
Edit: See that if you are ineligible to be President, you can’t be VP. Dammit!
jonas
@Amir Khalid:
IIRC, they weren’t even on speaking terms by the end of it all, especially after Bush refused to pardon Scooter Libby in the Valerie Plame leak case.
Paul in KY
@Germy Shoemangler: Could have got wet due to sweat. Happened to mine once.
Josie
@Kay: I think, in general, you are correct. In this instance, however, it could be the key to unlocking the Latino voter (or non-voter) puzzle. In Texas, Latinos have little influence on any but purely local elections, due to their unwillingness to vote. I believe it comes from their belief that they can have little influence on outcomes. If a Latino were on the national ticket, it would give them, for the first time, a sense of being included in the process and could make a huge difference in several states.
MattF
@Kay: It seems surprisingly easy for the Presidential nominee to get the VP nom wrong, though– consider Agnew, Quayle, Cheney. Years ago, I knew a woman who worked for the elder Bush when he was Reagan’s VP. When he was elected President she was offered a White House job, but chose to go back to California– in the meantime, she had the job of sorting Bush’s VP correspondence. She said it was an odd job– “People write to the Vice President after they’ve gotten negative responses from the Pope and Santa Claus.”
Paul in KY
@Kay: I do know 99.99% that if VP Gore had chosen Bob Graham as his running mate, he’d have been President in 2001.
Sen. Graham would have won him Florida, no doubt about it.
Kay
@jonas:
I watched a documentary on torture and it was interesting to me how worried Bush was with that as a “legacy”. We saw the belligerant sales job aspect of that, the circling of the wagons, the “best defense is a good offense” almost knee-jerk conservative response to any accusation, but my sense was Bush really, really did not want that on his name and the people who surrounded him and were truly dedicated didn’t either. It was personal to them. He had to be seen as a “good man”. That “good man” thing was so central to the real true Bush believers. He could screw up. What he couldn’t do was be a bad person.
It ended up as almost two parts of the GOP- the any means to an end people where competence is the essential factor and the people who are Republicans because they believe Republicans are better, more moral people.
The “competence” Republicans were mad at Bush, but the “good man” contingent never abandoned him.
SenyorDave
I’m thinking of epic punishments in mythology:
Prometheus – liver eaten daily for giving humanity fire
Sisyphus – being cursed to push a gigantic boulder up a hill, only to have it roll back down again – for eternity.
Arachne – turned into a spider by Athena for hubris
I’ll take any of these over being on a cruise with Bill Kristol, Fred Barnes and company.
Full metal Wingnut
12th Amendment says no one who is constitutionally ineligible to be President can be Vice President (for obvious reasons, that would be a huge loophole). I believe it’s the 22nd Amendment that limits presidents to two terms.
And even if it *were* constitutional Bill Clinton to be Vice President, the anti-Clinton howling would just get even louder. All of a sudden, conservative legal “scholars” would employ the IOKIYAR doctrine, and finding Clinton a Democrat, decide it’s unconstitutional.
Full metal Wingnut
@Paul in KY: People love Bob Graham. My mother’s been a Republican since around the time of Reagan and she loves Bob Graham.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
Unfortunately for all, he was a bad screw-up.
RSA
Aw, you can have more confidence in the BJ commentariat than that!
boatboy_srq
@BillinGlendaleCA: Actually, they could: for an additional two years.
Emphasis added.
So neither could be re-elected, but should anything happen to HRC, they’d be able to take over for up to 24 months. Anything in the first two years and there’d have to be a special election, but that’s a small price to pay for the insurance.
Personally, I think BHO as VP to HRC would be the best insurance policy possible: nobody would go for HRC because they’d put That Man back in the WH.
Paul in KY
@Full metal Wingnut: I lived down in FL when he was governor. Very, very popular man down there.
Paul in KY
@boatboy_srq: Would be the ultimate ‘Quayle Insurance Plan’. (my name for Bush Sr. move. I might have despised him, but I sure as Hell didn’t want Dan Quayle as Pres).
LWA (Liberal With Attitude)
@OzarkHillbilly:
“We’ve had mad kings, we’ve had evil kings, but we have never had a mad evil king!”
Tyrion Lannister
Botsplainer
@Kay:
In the face of manifest failure of conservatism, the answer is ALWAYS to “conservative harder”. Destroy the ability of government to deliver appropriate aid in a crisis, and more importantly, shut down reliable data collection and analysis on the environment and the economy, as that might earlier reveal the fact and extent of the failures wrought by conservatism.
LWA (Liberal With Attitude)
@boatboy_srq:
Or Michelle Obama.
Imagine the freakout with Bill & Hilary, Barack & Michelle all in the WH together.
MomSense
@Kay:
Nobody goes extreme like LePage. He has threatened to veto every piece of Democratic legislation until they pass elimination of the state income tax.
Fucking Cutler.
Paul in KY
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude): So the nut that Robert Baratheon deposed wasn’t evil?!
MomSense
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude):
Or Eric Holder. All the ire with none of the constitutional murkiness.
Chris
@Mustang Bobby:
And call Reagan an “amiable dunce” and you’re a monster. Because Alzheimer’s.
@Patricia Kayden:
Palin’s too lazy, as she was in 2012. She’s got a good gig as the star of Keeping Up With The Conservative Kardashians. Politics? It’s work, how she hates it! She’d much rather play!
@Kay:
Conservatives believe there are no such things as good and bad actions, only good and bad people. Hence, the obsession with that sort of thing.
That’s pretty much verbatim what fundamentalist theology, and its “saved through faith not acts” worldview, holds. Actions mean nothing, since all human beings are fundamentally evil; all that matters is whether you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior (translation: join their chuch/tribe), and then he’ll accept you and ignore your fundamentally evil nature.
jake the antisoshul soshulist
You really should have put those pictures under the fold with a trigger warning.
BTW, even the conservative Kathleen Parker can’t stand Bill Kristol. From her recent column excoriating his attack on boomers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/william-kristols-self-loathing-attack-on-baby-boomers/2015/05/26/91735c44-03e8-11e5-bc72-f3e16bf50bb6_story.html
Punchy
Meanwhile, in KS, something I predicted 4 weeks ago is happening…when 80-90% of your state legy is demonstrably anti-taxers, and you need to raise money, you’re completely and utterly fucked.
They’ll be in this stalemate until someone figures out how to sell enough poors to generate $400 very large. Until then, these clowns will be in extra session until August.
Botsplainer
@Punchy:
Soylent Jayhawk, the newest Koch product line…
Jay C
@EconWatcher:
Fixt
Sherparick
It says a lot about systemic closure or “bubble” that these Right Wingers live in. Hewitt really does not register that even with all the “ID” laws and other barriers, millions of Black, Brown and Asian people vote, at least in Presidential years, none of the Republicans, including Rubio, have any appeal or agenda for those who have not been admitted to the 1% club.
Kay
@Botsplainer:
But that wasn’t his “brand”. When the union-busting law went down he re-branded as “moderate”. Ohio really is a swing state. They’ll check him if he turns into Brownback.
Kay
@Chris:
They really do sound biblical a lot. I’m so uncomfortable with the whole ‘who is his father?’ line they used with Obama because that seems truly ancient to me. Bloodlines? Really? We haven’t made any progress there?
There were conservatives here who promoted the idea that Bush invaded Iraq to seek revenge on his father’s behalf. I think that’s insane. They think it’s the natural order of things- like it’s a series of kings.
Chris
@Kay:
This comes out in force with the gay marriage argument. “But what about all the children who will grow up without a FATHER?” It’s mostly just concern trolling, but not entirely.
jonas
@jake the antisoshul soshulist: The Unbearable Persistence of Bill Kristol is one of the greatest mysteries of our modern media era. How someone so wrong for so long about so much can still be on my teevee or hosting a fundraising cruise is just…it boogles the mind.
Elizabelle
Norovirus: you have your mission.
Rich (In Name Only) in Reno
So who’ll be trawling the wharf in Juneau when the ship pulls in this year, the Immaculate Bristol or Grizzly Mama?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Kay: GOP is killing it at the local level here in CA. Very, very unhappy about that. Absolutely no organized, or for that matter unorganized, opposition.
jonas
Didn’t Hewitt recently opine that the GOP should not only host more debates, but that they should be longer — like a day-long forum with each individual candidate? Sweet Jeebus, the man’s certifiable.
Bobby Thomson
@BillinGlendaleCA: incorrect. The 22nd amendment prohibits them from being elected president again. It doesn’t prevent them from serving.
Xenos
@SenyorDave: Just don’t let Tantalus work in the galley.
Bobby Thomson
@Schlemazel: that is in fact what the amendment says.
Bobby Thomson
@BillinGlendaleCA: but they aren’t ineligible to serve. They’re ineligible to be elected president.
cmorenc
@Paul in KY:
Or, if Gore had permitted himself to turn big dog {Bill Clinton) loose to campaign for him full-bore in Florida, he’d have easily turned out an ample number of additional democratic votes to eliminate any opportunity for Kathleen Harris or the GOP operatives (or SCOTUS) to manipulate the result into a Bush win. For all Gore’s good qualities (he would have been light-years better than Bush in every respect) – he had a cautiously priggish streak that was his undoing when it rose to the fore, and which facilitated some of the image-based attacks by the GOP against his person to succeed.
PaulW
The insulated nature of the upper income right-leaning Beltway media means that they never get it, they don’t grok. Hewitt seems convinced the “sane” choice for a Veep is a guy who failed twice to win the Presidency and was thisclose to not even be the contender in 2012 because nobody could settle on a viable “Not-Mitt” candidate (I still believe if Huckabee ran in 2012 as the Not-Mitt guy he would have tossed Mitt aside with ease).
These are the same media jokers who think Jeb Bush is a profound “moderate” candidate. These are the same media jokers who think Bernie Sanders is an unserious candidate. These are the same media jokers who can’t comprehend how income inequality is the defining moral political issue of our times.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay: I canvassed people personally whose minds were changes by the Biden pick.
PaulW
@cmorenc:
I’m still worried that damn butterfly ballot in Palm Beach County would have tossed wrong votes down the hole, well enough to still lose Florida.
It is possible voter turnout for Democrats state-wide would have perked up for Gore, with those who voted for Nader switching to Gore. If 1,000 voters with Nader switched to Gore that election…
Bobby Thomson
@boatboy_srq: no, that’s wrong. The 24 months thing has to do with someone like LBJ (who could have run for reelection twice because JFK died more than 24 months in) or Tyler (who could not have if the 22nd amendment had been effective).
Chris
@PaulW:
The thing is, “right leaning” though they may be, they don’t grok the right wing either. Conservatives didn’t like Romney either. I remember what they were like when they had a candidate they loved (Bush), and 2012 was not that. They voted for Not Obama. The empty chair Clint Eastwood was talking to at the convention would have gotten about the same number of votes. Nobody except a gaggle of pundits and socialites in Official Washington wants the Romneys back, on either side of the aisle. Even the money people have moved on.
Kay
@Bobby Thomson:
That’s interesting because he never made much headway as a Presidential candidate, even among Democrats.
Brachiator
@Full metal Wingnut:
With some justification. I have reservations about presidential spouses subsequently running for president. And it is not a gender-specific issue.
Of course, back in 1951, the Argentine military went nuts over the possibility that Eva Peron might run for vice president, with her husband running for president, and her sudden illness resolved this crisis.
There is distance between the Clinton presidency and Hillary’s run, so I have less of an issue. But the possibility of Bill as First Gentleman and an advisor is sure to create a few conundrums.
And I don’t know if I would be against a constitutional amendment that would prevent spouses or close relatives from running as president and vice president on the same ticket.
catclub
@Brachiator:
This ONLY exists in the media. Both Clintons are more popular (with people outside the beltway) now than twenty years ago, after two decades of attacks.
They are bulletproof.
catclub
@PaulW:
I think the best question to ask Huck will be: “Why were you too scared in 2012 to run against the black guy?”
catclub
@Bobby Thomson: I agree. I think Bill Clinton or Obama could be nominated to replace a Vice President. Running as VP candidate is trickier, due to the 12th amendment bit.
Brachiator
@catclub:
The media ain’t what it used to be. It is pointless to single the media out for everything.
I agree that the Clintons are popular, but I think that popularity is getting a bit frazzled and will be tested as Hillary pursues the presidency. Bill Clinton cannot run for VP, so the issue is moot, but were he available, I don’t think their popularity would prevent reasonable (and unreasonable) opposition.
boatboy_srq
@Bobby Thomson: The Amendment explicitly denies a candidate from election to the office. It says nothing about someone who assumes the office other than the two-year limit on his/her term. BHO could be Veep, and assume the Presidency two-plus years in and complete that term: he just couldn’t run for reelection again at that point.
Paul in KY
@cmorenc: That too. Could have just sent Bill to Arkansas and asked him to win it for him.
Paul in KY
@PaulW: That’s why I said ‘Bob Graham’. Can assure you it wouldn’t have been close enough for them to steal it, butterfly ballots or not.
Chris
@catclub:
I think between his “soft on crime” record and his occasional talking about “Wall Street versus Main Street,” any serious Huckabee run would have the Republican base and the Republican elites catching him in the crossfire and absolutely shredding him to pieces.
KithKanan
@boatboy_srq: Where does your reading of the two year limit on the assumed term come from? I read the amendment as only saying that serving more than two years of someone else’s term allows only one further elected term.
catclub
@Brachiator:
Indeed, Clinton never got a majority of the popular vote. I bet Hillary will.
Brachiator
@catclub:
We shall see. Of course, Hillary has to win her party’s nomination first.
NotMax
@catclub
Regardless, Bill and Hillary both being residents of the same state negate his consideration.
boatboy_srq
@KithKanan: Maybe I’m misreading the amendment, but it implies that the true absolute limit is 2 1/2 terms, with the 1/2 term having been assumed from another President. Rereading the amendment, it’s possible that a previous Prez as current Veep would be eligible to assume the higher office for virtually the entire term, and be blocked from reelection after that.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
Nothing in the Constitution bars presidential and vice-presidential candidates from the same state from running, being elected, or holding office together; it only bars the electors from their home state from voting for both of them. This can create its own set of problems.
Great write up on this at Snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/vicepresident.asp
NotMax
@Brachiator
Do your see either the word Constitution or constitutionally in my comment?
Splitting New York’s electors is reason enough for my expressed viewpoint.
KithKanan
@boatboy_srq: In any case, I’m not sure by what mechanism a US Presidential Special Election would be held, or what would force the former president-then-vice-president-then-president out of office aside from either resignation or impeachment-and-conviction. I’m guessing it would lead to an interesting supreme court case at the least.
Bobby Thomson
@boatboy_srq: no, he can’t ever run for reelection, regardless of anything else, unless the 22nd Amendment us repealed. And the 24 month period is not a term limit. It’s a qualification for re-election more than once. That’s my point.
drkrick
@MattF:
How were any of them wrong on the terms of the Presidents who chose them? Nixon and GW Bush were elected reelected twice, and I’d need serious convincing to buy the idea that Quayle was GHW Bush’s problem in ’92.
Palin and LBJ are the only VP candidates I can think of who might have affected the outcome of the election, albeit in opposite directions.
Bobby Thomson
@catclub: grey area, but I think the better reading is the 12th amendment doesn’t prohibit it. The 22nd amendment came later and it would have been written differently if it had to do with qualifications for service rather than qualifications for election.
jl
Before Biden was VP, and became a reactionary prime target to tear down, he was never called a dolt, or a crazy uncle. He has just received the standard GOP smear treatment, like HRC, Bill Clinton and Obama (and Kerry, etc. etc.) throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, and what the dupes will buy. Biden as a center, maybe slightly lefty Democrat. Considered very good on foreign policy, and ambiguous on domestic economic policy (likes workers, but remember his weakness on credit card industry regulation), with a talent for periodic, rather small bore, gaffes.
Remember that Obama was praised for the Biden pick because Biden was supposed to be a reassuring sound solid establishment pick that strengthened the administrations’ foreign policy competence. (Edit: remember the phrase ‘he hit the VP pick out of the park’)
Biden has not been a nonentity, so probably important to diminish him with ridicule. Regardless of what one thinks about his policy advice on Afghanistan and Iraq (I don’t think much of a lot of it) he was righter and more direct than most in predicting the fate of post-Invasion Iraq. And freed from responsibility for legislative sausage making, he has trended more progressive on domestic economic policy, and was responsible for getting some more progressive economic advisers in the administration.
So, of course, from the GOP side, he must be labeled a ‘dolt’.
Brachiator
@NotMax: I did see that ” Bill and Hillary both being residents of the same state negate his consideration” is not a correct statement.
And my response wasn’t just to you, but to anyone else reading this thread.
NotMax
@Brachiator
Again, it did not say “Bill and Hillary both being residents of the same state constitutionally negates his consideration” which is what your complaint was about.
Electoral numbers matter. Period.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
I didn’t have a complaint at all. Your original statement was incorrect, incomplete and potentially misleading. Obviously, there is common confusion over this point, or else the Snopes reference would not be necessary.
And even your claim that “Electoral numbers matter. Period. ” is not quite right either. Electors matter.
I provided the reference and the link because the historical and political facts are not a personal matter. It’s not about you or me.
NotMax
@Brachiator
Curious if you save the nits you pick in a giant jar or just toss them.
;)
NotMax
@Brachiator
Whence do you presume the numbers derive? Betelgeuse?
Turgidson
@catclub:
The honest answers would be (1) he knew he’d lose and couldn’t bear the shame; and (2) he hadn’t collected enough of that sweet, sweet Fox/wingnut grifter cash yet. Not sure which order.
Turgidson
@jl:
I find it hilarious that they’re still calling Joe a dolt even after he applied an epic atomic wedgie to Paul Ryan (supposedly the GOP’s bestest smart wonk guy) in front of the nation.
Joe can certainly be a goofball, and I wouldn’t claim him to be the most intelligent person on the planet, but he’s no idiot and, at the very least, clearly does his homework.
Sm*t Cl*de
So Hewitt is telling the candidates whose debate he will control that they are all inferior to the loser from 4 years ago, and should beg for that loser’s mentoring buddyness to get the stink of loserhood off them.
low-tech cyclist
This shows their blindness goes way beyond that required of simple political allegiance.
I mean, Mitt signing on to be someone else’s veep? I don’t think there’s an alternate universe where Mitt would do anything but laugh that notion out the door.