Long overdue, the Mayor of Baltimore has lifted the curfew. Of everything that has gone down in Baltimore, that is what I find to be the most amazing- that a major American city was essentially put under martial law for no reason. The crowds were large, but the violence was negligible- some property damage, but that is why we have insurance. Given what he people of Baltimore have gone through, I thought the “rioting” was extremely restrained.
But this is the worst part of this crap:
This was the curfew equivalent of a teen being sent to his room every night, and then the parents enforced the grounding with the violent and unruly older brother whose beatings caused the whole outburst given the privilege of enforcing the punishment, allowing them to provoke and beat the younger grounded sibling with no repercussions. This isn’t governance. This is the Lord of the Flies, 2015 racist edition.
All of this went on, and the American public, by and large, didn’t give a shit. There’s more outrage in the public about Texas wingnuts asserting that the Federal government is going to invade… itself. So, yeah. You wonder why the security state rules? Because we let them.
Baud
There are apparently some riots going on on the west coast. Anti-trade stuff. Barely mentioned in the news.
Myiq2xu
They were mostly peaceful riots.
D58826
Posted this in the earlier flower thread but more appropriate here :What I’ve found interesting the past few days is the rush to blame liberals and welfare for what happened in Baltimore. Now the fact that the right blames liberals isn’t surprising but it is the way they frame it. Before the Great Society and the war on poverty, welfare was a program limited to widows and orphans with a specific time period for a recipient to get benefits. The liberals changed all of that in the 1960’s and it resulted in the African American community deciding to go on the dole rather than get a job. Yet somehow this trend didn’t affect the white folks who were eligible for welfare. It only created a ‘plantation’ mentality among the African American community. I’ve seen several African American conservatives make the same argument. It certainly doesn’t say much for the moral fiber of African Americans does it. The conservatives seem to be saying that they are so weak willed that they would trade a good paying job (we will ignore the fact that the jobs no longer exist in the inner-city) for a welfare check just so they can sit around and have babies and watch TV. Of course none of this is racist. It’s just the end result of failed liberal policies.
Jerzy Russian
I thought that perhaps a curfew for one night was justified. After that, it seems like it was overkill to keep having it.
I now have a new earworm, thanks to our esteemed bloghost. At least this one is not so bad.
Quaker in a Basement
@Myiq2xu: OK, the protests were restrained. The riots, by definition, not.
Tree With Water
“Politics is the art of controlling your environment. That is one of the key things I learned in these years, and I learned it the hard way. Anybody who thinks that ‘it doesn’t matter who’s President’ has never been Drafted and sent off to fight and die in a vicious, stupid War on the other side of the World — or been beaten and gassed by Police for trespassing on public property — or been hounded by the IRS for purely political reasons — or locked up in the Cook County Jail with a broken nose and no phone access and twelve perverts wanting to stomp your ass in the shower. That is when it matters who is President or Governor or Police Chief. That is when you will wish you had voted”.
Hunter Thompson
Myiq2xu
@Baud: It’s White Privilege in action:
https://youtu.be/RTUow-FR9xY
bemused
So far I have seen the Baltimore troubles blamed on too much welfare, gays and teacher unions.
skerry
At the same time that the assault shown above happened, a smaller protest was held in the Hampden neighborhood (mostly white) of Baltimore. There, the police gave 3 warnings after the curfew time and even offered some protestors a ride home.
There were about 50 protestors and an equal number of police.
Nobody was arrested.
D58826
There is a long piece over on CNN written by a guy who grew up in that neighborhood. He talks about the missing role models, the missing jobs, the closed pools and libraries. The only thing that seems to be in abundance are cops
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/02/us/lord-of-the-flies-baltimore/index.html
Baud
@Myiq2xu:
White riots are so much more civilized.
Richard Shindledecker
The corporate czars are wetting their pants. their army (the cops) are being held accountable – what next?
srv
@D58826: liberal fascism, liberal racism, how do liberals live with themselves?
Corner Stone
@Tree With Water:
And Policing is the art of protecting the property owning rentier class.
Corner Stone
@D58826: As our good friend the Zombie Eyed Granny Starver likes to say:
“He argues for consolidating many of the federal poverty programs into flexible programs that allow states to customize welfare benefits to individual people. When people get welfare from several different programs stacked on top of each other, Ryan argued, they get stuck in the “poverty trap” and lose the incentive to get a job because they would lose some of their benefits.”
Schlemazel
John, I am not sure if anyone noticed this but the majority of Americans are white so what happens TO black people does not affect them & is no concern of theirs since it couldn’t possibly happen to white foks. WHat happens BECAUSE of black folks is of course a major concern since black power is gonna come and get your momma.
I had this discussion with the wingnut prepper at work and the simple fact is he is incapable of understanding that the experience of people of color in the US is entirely different than his own. That means he cannot possibly understand how or why their lives are different than his or how we came to this impasse. The is no hope of his ever understanding either. It is depressing because we are currently caught in a loop that cannot end.
Tree With Water
I remember wondering how far down the coast Watts was, and if I could see the smoke (it was over 400 miles so no, I couldn’t). I also recall the riots of the summer of 1967, leastwise the TV footage. Baltimore scares the lovers of the status quo because of what it portends. I think they have excellent reasons to worry. As I recall, the Watts riots began with a traffic stop. A mere, run of the mill traffic stop.
Just Some Fuckhead
I weep for CVS.
D58826
@Schlemazel: Some one made the comment ‘your choices are constrained by your circumstances’. That kid in Texas, who killed four people in a drunk driving accident and was sentence to a year in a west coast rehab facility by virtue of his family’s wealth has many more choices than a guy like Freddie Grey. Grey’s choice pretty much came down to being a pimp or a drug dealer.
Sure you get the outlier like Ben Carson who managed to overcome the odds but he stands out because he is the exception. There is a good bit of white poverty in coal country but that is so far away from the TV cameras that no one notices. Plus at least if you are a poor white you can take comfort in the fact that the poor blacks are even worse off.
Gene108
@D58826:
White racism always seems to assume blacks lived in some idyllic past that was destroyed by liberals forcing more freedom on blacks.
There was the happy contented Negro slave, who morphed into an out of control crime prone threat to society after the Civil War ended and thus forced whites to enact laws to restrict black freedom.
The problem with Great Society programs is they coincided with a sharp spike in crime, so conservatives could say, “see before the Great Society programs less crime, with them more crime” therefore they are the problem and a gullible media reported it as a valid opinion.
Villago Delenda Est
Fascists do not have time for nuance, for granularity, for restraint.
It’s beat down the entire accused group, and punish them en masse…especially for crimes committed by the favored group. See the Nazis wailing about “Jewish finance bloodsuckers” when most of the “finance bloodsuckers” were in fact Prussian aristocrats.
MattF
So, what about the few-days-old WaPo report that Gray was trying to break his own neck? Is it just going to be forgotten? Are we going to have a lockdown on violent contortionists?
Villago Delenda Est
@Gene108:
That certainly explains Nat Turner and his band of happy bale toters, doesn’t it?
Villago Delenda Est
@MattF: What we need is a crackdown on stenographers posing as journalists.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: WORD
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: They’re called “Sportsball Celebrations”
Tree With Water
@Schlemazel: Which is why the study of American history is very nearly tantamount to a revolutionary act in today’s United States.. it can serve to level preconceived notions, many of which are vital to upholding the political status quo.
Corner Stone
@Schlemazel:
I think it’s changing a little, due to the Great Recession and the ongoing jobless economic “recovery”.
Preppers however, by definition, are lost causes.
ETA, and there’s nothing wrong with preparing or looking at possible downsides and taking reasonable actions.
“Preppers” are something else than reasonable.
Villago Delenda Est
@Myiq2xu: Your nym is using the rong mathematical sign. It should be a /.
trollhattan
@Jerzy Russian:
Cool
catSteveLookin’ for a
kittysnack/bird/escape routehenqiguai
@srv (#13):
Uh, sinfully?
samiam
Whiter than white wr0ng way Cole trying to lecture us on the black struggle again. Guess he must have been pretty disappointed to find out 2 of the officers were black and one of those was a female. Kind of takes the wind out of that sail. Notice how this know nothing TV watching experts are quietly making it about the battle against the poors now that they can’t wank off about it being a racial thing.
How about lecturing us on how Hilary isn’t coming out strong enough on the feminist struggle wr0ng way Cole.
D58826
@MattF: Oh it’s still alive and well at least among the Baltimore cops. Megyn Kelly on Faux news had an interview with a BPD cop on Friday night. His face was blocked out because he said he feared retaliation. The 40 minutes can be summarized as follows:
1. everyone is out to get the BPD
2. Freddie was probably dealing drugs but was able to throw them away during the chase
3. the mayor is out to get the BPD
4. Freddie had to fake an injury to maintain street cred since he really was a police snitch
5. the PBD command structure is out to get the rank and file cops
6. the van driver is an absolute boy scout and would never do anything to hurt a prisoner in his charge
7. the prosecutor is out to get the BPD
8. Freddie had a switchblade (kelly did not correct the misstatement)
9. the mayor is trying to lynch the BDP cops
10. the injuries were self inflicted
11. did I mention that everyone is out to get the BPD
12. the other prisioner walked back the statement that he made to the police to maintain his street cred
13. the cop felt a case of blue flu coming on
14. the entire world really hates the BPD rank and file and wants to get them,
I went thru an entire box of kleenex as I shed tears for the poor abused cops of the BPD.
Corner Stone
“That’s what I’m talking about, Motherfucker!”
/Gortat
raven
@Tree With Water: I was in Inglewood.
Corner Stone
An interesting game, at least. Wiz v Hawks.
Myiq2xu
@Gene108: Black people have proven they can rise to the top in every profession. Each individual should be judged individually.
When Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier they didn’t change the rules to make it easier for him.
Because they didn’t have to.
Germy Shoemangler
@samiam: Three of the officers were black. Chauncey Devega has called them slave drivers in the age of Obama:
http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2015/05/the-three-black-cops-who-killed-freddie.html
WereBear
@Schlemazel: He should read Black Like Me.
But so often, such folks don’t read books.
JPL
@D58826: A previous dentist that I went complained about the cost for malpractice insurance. I said that if they didn’t protect their own, it wouldn’t cost as much because there a few bad dentists and doctors. They drive up the rate for everyone.
I feel the same way about the police union. They are hurting the the cause because the good police officers are not being recognized. There are still guardians in the Police force.
D58826
@Germy Shoemangler: If I remember my WWII history correctly there were Jewish overseers in the death camps. Not the first time some one will sell out his ‘in-group’ whither for cash or survival. The word Quisling came from the name of a Norwegian who sold out to the Nazi’s. And we have Benedict Arnold.
Baud
@Myiq2xu:
They changed the rule that said black people couldn’t play in the Major Leagues. That made it a little easier.
skerry
Baltimore FOP have opened up a paypal account for donations to the arrested officers’ legal fund. Gofundme shut down a similar account last week.
Germy Shoemangler
@D58826: Very true.
It would be like saying the German death camps weren’t a racial thing, because of the Jewish overseers. I don’t get the logic.
lamh36
Read an interesting article today. Since you’re talking Baltimore and white empathy with Black folk plights.
Too Many White Hip-Hop Fans Don’t Give a Shit About Black People
different-church-lady
@Baud: That wasn’t a rule. That was an “agreement”.
leeleeFL
@D58826: that single fact explains the partcipation of poor whites on the Confederate side in the Civil War
Just Some Fuckhead
@Myiq2xu:
Is there anything black people won’t break to get their way?
Milk in NC
@D58826: Pity poor ‘Fox & Friends’ who were deprived their long-awaited race riot, with lots of bloodshed all around. Maybe a false flag operation staged closer to October 2016 will work out for them. Then Hannity can finally claim his Pulitzer Prize for dog-whistling.
leeleeFL
@Villago Delenda Est:This thread is won. Thanks for participating.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Interesting. Thank you.
parsimon
You know, John Cole, I find this glib, and I have to push back a bit on your assessment. Roughly 200 businesses were destroyed, many of them small mom-and-pop corner stores that didn’t necessarily have insurance. There is an insurer of last resort provided by the state, but it’s not necessarily robust coverage.
Are you really completely confident that in the absence of an imposed curfew, a second, or third or fourth, night of destruction and looting wouldn’t have occurred? I’m not.
As it stands, the curfew amounted to a demand for quiet and reflection. Not to mention damage control. I know that a number of people objected to it, but it seems to me, as a Baltimorean of over 20 years, that it did its job. People are reflective now. That’s fine with me.
Gravenstone
Gee, what is it about the topic that brings all the trolls to the yard?
Tree With Water
“People are reflective now”.
I think you mean “quiet”. It’s what people are reflecting on that should still have you worried. And that’s fine with me.
Hal
@Gravenstone:
Cole’s milkshake has been known to do that.
trollhattan
@Gravenstone:
My top guess is they’re wanna be cops who failed the psych screening.
trollhattan
@Tree With Water:
I have a darn hard time spotting joggers and pedestrians when driving at night, so am a big fan of reflective people.
Myiq2xu
@WereBear: That book was published 54 years ago. Things have changed somewhat since 1961.
jeffreyw
@Gravenstone:
FTFY
trollhattan
@Myiq2xu:
And a metric shitton of things haven’t budged; we’ve just stopped paying attention until recently.
gelfling545
@Quaker in a Basement: Protests by certain sections of the population will always be considered “riots”, at least potentially.
raven
@parsimon: What about the blood thirsty national guard with their fingers on the triggers of their full-auto M-16? Huh, huh, what about them./s
xenos
@JPL: a good contrast is the legal profession. If you brake certain fundamental rules you can be drummed out quite efficiently. Malpractice insurance is not cheap, but if they let the bad apples flourish (sry for the mixed metaphor) it would be impossible to get insured.
Hal
@lamh36: I was just thinking about this on my way home today. I’m friends with people from high school and we are all late 30s early 40s. Several hip hop, dated a black girl/guy, honorary black person white folks who have completely dismissed all of this is astonishing to me. You used to listen to nwa, biggie and tupac but you’re saying there is no racial profiling among cops? Three of the officers are black so now race isn’t a factor?
I’ve been incredibly disappointed this past week. The gap in opinion between white people and black from what I’ve seen at work, at home and on social media is enormous. I’ve had white friends say racism is just a business to make money (Al Sharpton) and been asked where all these protesters were when a white person was shot and killed by the police.
Too many people are going to sweep all of this aside asap and when it happens again we’ll start all over again with way too many people in this country sticking their heads in the sand waiting for the inevitable unrest to blow over.
skerry
@Hal: I predict a long, hot summer. Baltimore is just the beginning. People are already calling it #BlackSpring.
parsimon
@Tree With Water:
I’m listening to a hell of a lot of what people are saying. The economic circumstances of people in the Sandtown/Winchester area is no joke. Baltimore’s local public radio station (WYPR) had an excellent episode of its show called “The Signal” the other day.
I’m not a troll, by the way. I’m mildly bummed that you’d think so.
gwangung
@MattF: Well, the wingnuts seem to think we should. They think Negroes are magical, capable of miraculous feats:
https://twitter.com/deray/status/594943573134548992
Kryptik
@Hal:
At this point, I’m about convinced that this generation is just as racist, if not more so, than the previous one, just so internalized and coded that just because it isn’t mustache-twirlingly evil they think they’re ‘above it’. And any hope that this generation is going to be any better regarding race relations is put to paid by just a cursory scan through twitter and facebook.
WereBear
@Myiq2xu: If some brave soul would try a remake, we’ll find out what and how much.
I’d contribute to that Kickstarter.
La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
@xenos: I am a lawyer and I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Lawyers don’t effectively police their own. Witness the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of perjured documents filed in courts all over the U.S. during the foreclosure crisis, and still being filed, by lawyers. One asshole in Florida got disbarred behind that shit, but mostly because he lost his investors’ money.
The only discipline I ever see meted out against misbehaving lawyers is when they dip into their escrow accounts. The reason is escrow is used in real estate transactions, so it’s gotta be sacred or the banks and other rentiers might not get their money every time a property is flipped.
Aleta
If our brave citizen-militia bands of roving minute-men are so convinced that the Constitution God wrote is about to be annihilated, surely they will stand up, stand their ground, refuse to stand for it, and sally forth. I’d like to see it. Ted Cruz is such a killjoy for trying to talk them down before they lose their voting rights.
different-church-lady
@Kryptik: I would submit that Twitter and Facebook present views of our society through distorted lenses.
The Thin Black Duke
@different-church-lady: Yep. Barack Obama was elected President of the United States, after all. Twice.
Cervantes
@parsimon:
Pay no attention to that nonsense. It’s laziness, at best.
Kryptik
@different-church-lady:
Distorted or clearer? My impressions lately of twitter and facebook have become that people show their truer colors there than anywhere else because it’s easier to find validation for your creepier beliefs without physical confrontations.
Tree With Water
@parsimon: By “you” I meant people who fear acknowledging economic/historical cause and effect, to the point of denial. You obviously don’t fit the bill.
parsimon
@Cervantes: Thanks.
D58826
@Kryptik: or actually identifying yourself
different-church-lady
@Kryptik: Distorted because it only reflects the behaviors and attitudes of the kinds of people who use that technology.
If you looked at the comments section of any (and I mean any) newspaper website, you’ll see it as a cesspool of crazy. This is not because people who read newspapers or newspaper websites are crazy. It’s because there’s a certain kind of crazy that finds making rude, inflammatory comments on newspaper websites to be irresistible. And newspapers, in the attempt to not be accused of censorship, tolerate more of it than they should. If one were to use it as a measuring stick of society it would be distorted.
The same is true of Facebook or Twitter. Despite their ubiquitous nature — their overwhelming, unavoidable “buzz” — not everyone uses them, nor cares what happens there.
Additionally, because of the democratization of media, any crackpot can have a shot at a national audience. Whereas 50 years ago you had to wait until a reporter stuck a microphone in front of you, today you can find the world and the world can find you.
The crazy is more easily accessible than ever. But that doesn’t necessarily mean there’s more of it.
Ruckus
@Hal:
As @Schlemazel: pointed out, most people do not think much about, if at all of daily situations that do not affect their lives directly. Are you white, only know indirectly one or two blacks, if that many? You aren’t going to see things from the average black perspective for a couple of reasons. No exposure, other than the news and we know how much actual information you get from that. Things like riots are not in most people’s wheelhouse, they can’t see this even as a last retort to an ongoing shitstorm they know nothing of.
Shorter, it’s hard to have even a modicum of empathy for something you can’t comprehend, much harder still for those lacking any empathy whatsoever.
parsimon
@Tree With Water: Correct, I don’t. It’s not great that you’d assume otherwise, but let’s leave it at that.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Kryptik:
Your point is a good one, and too often overlooked. The people spouting the vicious bile on FB aren’t by any means all in their 80s. Many are younger than I am – and have dropped the code, when it’s dropped, because there’s a near President. Yet they actually believe they don’t have racist views or make racist statements.
ms_canadada
@Myiq2xu: hmmm…peaceful riot…oxymoron?
Germy Shoemangler
@different-church-lady: That’s reassuring. Because when I read the comments section of my local newspaper websites, I fear for my country. The racism, the fox talking points, the overall nastiness is just outrageous.
Tree With Water
@parsimon: Well, thanks all the hell for not getting rankled at me, big fella. Let me leave you with this:
“Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asserted over the weekend that poor communities — like in Baltimore — were stuck in a “poverty trap” because lucrative welfare benefits did not encourage people to find jobs.”
That’s who I was talking about.
WereBear
@Germy Shoemangler: There’s something about the digital screen that lets jerks run off at the mouth and say things they would normally moderate, or censor all together. Seeing a defenseless comment section draws them to verbally bully the same way a skinny child with glasses becomes a target in school.
I have been startled via Facebook to find that an acquaintance has expressed approval of things I find repugnant. But they always thought this way.
I just didn’t know it.
parsimon
@Tree With Water: Understood. Paul Ryan is a smooth-talking devil with a forked tongue and all that.
Let’s all try to counter his narrative as best we can, yeah? You and I are on the same side. Peace.
Raven
I Just fell taking chicken out to the grill and cut the shit out of the base of my pinky. They just did X-rays at the ER but besides a really deep cut I think m ok .
WereBear
@Raven: Sounds like you’ll be okay, except for taking tea with the Queen.
skerry
In other news, Baltimore City is sending water turn-off notices to 25,000 customers. Shut-offs will begin Wednesday.
There’s more than one kind of violence.
Raven
@WereBear: Yea, prolly stitches and it won’t do my fishing trip much good but it could be worse. I’ve got the nurses in stitches too!
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven:
Yikes and ouch! Hope it heals quickly.
Germy Shoemangler
@parsimon: Someone edited Paul Ryan’s wikipedia page to say he worked a variety of jobs after college, but I recall a few years ago reading that his only private-sector employment had been a few months at his uncle’s law firm. And then it was on to the public teat (assisting various repub representatives)
shortstop
Oh, the American public definitely gave a shit — about expressing alarm and disgust at these HUGE, OUT-OF-CONTROL RIOTS by masses of ANIMALISTIC BLACK PEOPLE…exactly like they did about the very limited violence in Ferguson. The majority of white Americans will go to their graves believing that both municipalities were burnt to the ground with thousands of cops injured. That, even more than pushing down the people protesting, was the point of the curfews.
Raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks ! I sent my bride home since we are about 100 yards from the hospital!
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven: Well, that’s convenient anyway!
D58826
@Tree With Water:
Yep those lucrative benefits. They only live in rundown housing in rundown neighborhoods to hide their wealth. They only show up for the occasional riot. The rest of the time they are cruising on the Queen Mary II or the Pacific Princess, lapping up those steaks and lobsters. The hotels on the Riviera are booked years in advance so that the children of the current generation of welfare queens will have a place to winter.
The current system might very well need an overhaul, in addition to additional funding but when some one says something that stupid you know they are the problem not the solution
Aleta
Interviewers have asked German citizens whether and why they voted for the Nazis in the 30’s. Answers I remember: the economy was improving; the economy was very good; the soldiers were clean, good-looking; the soldiers kept order. Fear has always been used in the US to keep order, but it seems like since the 80s fear been used to control the white middle and upper-middle class. Fear of becoming homeless like the people seen on the streets; fear of losing one’s job and health care and ‘everything you’ve worked for.’ Fear of being called a traitor or ‘not supporting the troops,’ fear of crime and riots and of darker people having control. When the main media is broadcasting fear, the resemblance to fascism is what’s truly scary.
Baud
@Raven:
Jesus. Thank God it wasn’t your middle finger, cuz what would you then? ;-)
Cervantes
@Raven:
Sorry to hear it.
Dominant hand?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Raven: Damn, Sparky, I hope you’re really fine but for the cut. Saltwater burns like a son of a bitch but really does promote healing. (I’m just assuming you’re fishing in saltwater.) Take care, man.
ETA:
Color me totally unsurprised.
askew
@Germy Shoemangler:
Ryan’s only job outside of government was as an Oscar Meyer Weinermobile driver. I remember that from 2012 because it is hysterical.
Brachiator
@D58826: Whoa. What do you know about Freddie Gray’s choices, and what the fuck does it have to do with anything? When Greg was stopped by the cops, he wasn’t pimping or dealing drugs. There is no evidence, not even an assertion by the police that he had any drugs on him.
Your heart may be in the right place, but it reads as though you have to invent a Negro stereotype in an attempt to comprehend Greg’s reality. This only moves you further away from understanding.
opiejeanne
@askew: So, he was Little Oscar?
Ruckus
@askew:
A dick driving a wiener.
Somehow appropriate
Xantar
@parsimon:
As another Baltimorean albeit only since 2011, I think we only needed one day of curfew. Two at most. The whole damn week was really excessive, and it left many businesses unable to pay rent since they couldn’t open past 9 PM. If the police were out in enough force to enact a curfew, then there were also enough of them out to simply watch people go about their business and make sure nobody was throwing rocks at windows. I saw some of the destruction firsthand, and it saddened me greatly. But it was clear by Wednesday that we were not going to get a repeat of that night. Not even close.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Well of course if you are like some people that I know, as I assume most all of us do, they don’t understand why someone would be afraid of cops, be they black or white. If you run from cops, you must have done something wrong. That is the their extent of comprehension.
Sharon
@D58826: I was pretty pissedoff about the curfew, but given this cop’s attitude about the entire population and political structure of Baltimore, I think the way too long curfew was a good way to protect my fellow citizens from cry babies like this guy.
The last thing I wanted to run into was one of BCPD’s finest with a bit of score settling on his mind. Of course the city obliged our little Corner of Baltmore. We didn’t see a police car our a actual cop in our neighborhood the entire week and we live about 10 blocks east of Penn North.
We’re going to celebrate the lifting of the curfew by hoisting a few at our local hangout and then walking home at precisely 10:01 pm.
john fremont
@D58826: And to think, I thought we ended Welfare As We Know It almost 20 years ago with the Contract with America’s Welfare Reform Act in 1996. I thought Newt Gingrich and the Party of Ideas broke the cycle of poverty with the passage of that law.
Ruckus
@Xantar:
Two tons of bandaid, without any cure, that’s the prescription.
opiejeanne
@Ruckus: I’m white, I’m an old lady, and I’ve never done anything wrong other than a speeding ticket when I was 37, and I’m nervous around cops. I can’t imagine how much worse it is for black people.
Roger Moore
@askew:
Which shows the one skill he picked up in the private sector: selling baloney. He’s just moved on to a bigger market.
skerry
@Xantar: It’s not only the businesses that were hurt by the curfew. Think of all the employees. I don’t know how much money my daughter lost this last week (she tends bar), but I’m expecting her to ask me for money this month.
Brachiator
@Ruckus: Bad assumption. Very, very bad.
But here is what infuriates me. Conservative and some apparently moderate people commenting on this assume that the cops had a right to arrest Greg, and they bend over backwards to justify or excuse the cops’ use of their authority.
And they excuse the cops’ right to make up a crime to justify Greg’s arrest. They insane, Kafkaesque nonsense, approved by “law abiding” white people is that even if Greg was not committing a crime now, he had committed one in the past and would commit one in the future, so who gives a shit whether the stop was valid or not. If you are white, maybe you’re just a kid who could use a break. If you are black, you’re inherently criminal and just haven’t been caught yet.
This has less to do with growing up black and poor, and more with growing up in a society that treats blacks as a lesser caste not deserving of either rights or justice.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
I’m old, white, male and the last enforcement situation I had was a speeding ticket 26 yrs ago. I thought I had a good record.
I’ve been nervous around cops since I did a ride along with a HS friend who was a deputy., 40 plus yrs ago. He arrested a guy that he had knowingly just done an illegal search on. He did it knowing that the guy would get out on Monday morning when he went before a judge. I know this because I asked him directly. His answer? “I got his dope(about a 1/4in joint, street value, zero) and he gets to spend 3 nights in my jail.” That’s judge, jury, punishment, all in one easy place. Well at least he didn’t kill the guy. That’s what is happening these days, for the equivalent of that nothing or even less, people are getting beaten, permanently disabled or dead. It wasn’t good policing 40 or 100 yrs ago and it isn’t now either.
Raven
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Not for a couple of weeks!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Brachiator: I think the assumption is that you, like of all of us know, some fool(s) who
That’s my reading of the comment by Ruckus.
opiejeanne
@Raven: Don’t you do that no more! Just the description makes me cringe.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Yes it’s a bad assumption. But people make bad assumptions all the time, hence the old saw, “When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.”
My issue is I don’t think it is all that simple. There are two sides to making that assumption. First of course is racism, the concept that all blacks(in the US it is of course primarily blacks) are scum, bottom of the bucket. Second is that they don’t understand that cops are not always the nice, polite, friendly protectors of law and order they assume them to be. Or that things have changed(crime stats are way down in the last few decades, cops must have been doing something right!) They don’t think the news is mostly bullshit either, they trust it to be true, they have no idea that the Fairness Doctrine is gone, or probably even existed in the first place.
It’s a convoluted mess, at this point you can’t just fix one part and expect change. You have to change perceptions, information, racism, fear, and I’m sure about a dozen more that I’m leaving out.
Ruckus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
I think he took it the right way.
Brachiator
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): But that’s really not the point is it? How do we get from Grey running from the cops to Greg ending up dead? Even if we were debating stupid assumptions, wouldn’t a reasonable conclusion be that a black man has a reasonable fear for his life when he sees a cop approaching?
So, what the fuck does wondering why someone ran from the cops or “must have done something wrong” have to do with anything?
Or another way of looking at this, why are people unwilling or unable to look at the facts of this case?
Is it that white people see police as their friends and protectors and always give them the benefit of the doubt,especially if they live in nice middle class (and often still segregated) neighborhoods?
opiejeanne
@Ruckus: When I was a freshman in college in the fall of 1968, a boy took me to a Joan Baez concert in Inglewood. The news either that night or the following night claimed there was a riot by the unruly anti-war crowd in the parking lot, and then a near-riot in the rush to the stage to give their draft cards to Ms Baez so she could burn them. My dad was watching and I said to him, “That didn’t happen.” He looked at me funny and asked me how I knew, and I said, “Because I was there.”
To say that Dad was shocked is an understatement, both that I had been at this orgy of lefty wrong-mindedness as well as saying the reporter (and the news) was wrong, and this reporter was one of the ones considered to be serious and accurate; this had startled me when I heard his report.
I explained to dad that the picture of the crowd was people at the Will Call window, and that I had been in that line. Then I told him that a grand total of 7 guys gave their cards to Joan Baez during the intermission, and it was very quietly done. We didn’t see a cop before, during, or after the concert, other than the guys directing traffic The concert itself was kind of dull, if I remember it correctly.
opiejeanne
@Brachiator: Yes.
Mudge
Once I, as were we all, was 16. It was 1966. I had a summer job for a pharmaceutical packaging company in a warehouse in Philadelphia that was not air conditioned. I lived in the New Jersey suburbs. I woke up every morning at around 5 to (I swear) this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZT-Gj7QNI , got ready, and walked to a bus for the ride to Philadelphia to start at 7 AM. The shift ended at 3:30 PM and I was hot and exhausted (one day I lost over 10 pounds) and caught the bus home. On WIBG, or more likely WFIL, that night I’d listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m648v4s5sFc which John alluded to in his title. The Philadelphia riots were in 1964, but even in 1970, when I had a short term job on a Coca-Cola truck in North Philadelphia over Christmas, Norris and Diamond streets still looked like 1945 Berlin. I do not want those days to return.
opiejeanne
@Mudge: Philadelphia was before Watts? For some reason I thought Watts was first. Probably because Watts was nearby.
I remember my dad putting a gun in the trunk of his car the second day of the rioting, on his way to work. He had discovered that city inspectors were allowed to do so. He was relieved that he never had to use it or even consider using it.
Brachiator
@Ruckus: Death is simple. Murder is simple. And permanent. Your story about the cop acting as judge, jury and dispenser of justice is pretty simple. We see from the Tea Party simpletons and libertarian nut cases that some people seem to have an exquisite sense of liberty and justice and twitch at the slightest sign that the government may be trampling on their rights. But somehow, none of this applies to black people, who are presumed to be guilty until … well, no proof necessary. Simple.
What does it take to get beyond this?
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Maybe I wasn’t clear in my response to you. You and I are on the same page, with the exception that I don’t think there is a simple answer, one or two things to change. Things involving humans rarely have simple one or two dimension answers and in our modern times involving mass relationships, never do. Some people are racists. Fix that and you still have many who side with whatever the cops say. They don’t know any better, the sources of their information flat out lie all the time. Fix that and you still have the answer that anyone who runs from the cops probably did something wrong. You can only fix that by fixing the cops beating/killing people. But many still think that it’s cops jobs to extract “justice” because the courts don’t. They of course see that on the news, for example the financial sector/great recession or that money buys you out of trouble.
You can’t just fix one thing, you have to address all of them, at least to some degree.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
That’s the 80 gzillion dollar question.
I think it takes exposure. Integrated schools seem to have made a huge difference where they actually happened, in other words where white flight and charter schools to make that easy didn’t happen.
I know it takes time. Of course we’ve spent way too much time with very little to show for it.
It takes work. As in employment opportunities.
It takes a reasonable minimum wage so that working your ass off has actual value.
It takes knowledge. Of history, and not that bullshit that TX wants everyone to hear. Get rid of the glorification of the losing side of the civil war. The south lost, they should own that. And the reason why.
That may be a start, once again I’m sure that there is more. Much more.
Brachiator
@Ruckus: You keep focusing on the “people who run from the cops must have been doing something wrong” thing. And maybe this is the heart of the problem.
The idea here seems to be that if you run from the cops, then anything the cops do to you is allowed. Run and you give the cops a license to kill.
What will the excuse be when more examples of people standing still and getting killed by the cops be?
Brachiator
@opiejeanne: Great and sad example of biased and bogus reporting. I’ll bet that the news director could explain that “near riot” could be taken to mean that “nothing really happened.”
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I don’t agree with the premise, please don’t keep putting that on me.
I’m explaining that many do think that way. From their prospective they don’t know that many cops beat people all the time and have for, well, ever. I recall that it used to be called street justice. And if they do know the line I usually hear is that they must have done something, otherwise why did they run? Many if not most white people have no concept that this happens all the time. Cell cameras have changed that a lot. But it will take time to sink in. Recall the other day a federal marshal grabbed a woman’s phone and smashed it because she was recording what the marshals were doing. It was only caught because there were several people videoing him doing this.
My only issue with you or your questions is that you seem to be trying to simplify the whole process, distill it down to a single answer and I’m telling you there isn’t one single answer. Because there isn’t one single issue at hand. It’s easy to say it’s racism. Because it is in many cases. But if all the racists pulled a George Wallace tomorrow there would still be a multi-sided problem. And they are not going to do that.
Brachiator
@Ruckus: Your continued assertion that it is not that simple is useless to the dead and no comfort to the afflicted.
And you keep harping on the running from the police angle. The plain fact is that in any confrontation with the police, a black person (or Latino) is presumed to be at fault.
And you skip over how in this case, many whites seem to ignore the deliberate falsification of evidence with respect to the nonexistent dangerous switchblade knife.
The answers may not be simple, but I don’t think you are even asking the right questions.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Are you off your meds or something?
You are the one asking questions. I’ve been giving you some answers and pointing out that these are only some of them. My writing may not be Pulitzer prize level or even in the same hemisphere but your reading comprehension is in serious trouble if you can’t see this.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
Actually, no, you’re the one who keeps harping on the “running from the police angle.” Ruckus is pointing out that a pretty large number of white people have the misconception that running from the police means the person is guilty of something. He is not saying, and never has said, that he thinks that.
I honestly can’t figure out what area of conflict you seem to think you see between the two of you.
brantl
@Quaker in a Basement: RIght on the money. I don’t see how people can say that you don’t need to control a situation where people are burning parts of a city. I don’t agree with all or maybe even most of the methods, but it’s nuts to say that you don’t need to get government personnel on the street, to control this kind of thing. The rioting needed to be stopped.
brantl
@samiam: Are you a professional dick, or just a gifted hobbiest?