It’s hard enough to be disabled. Try being disabled and poor. According to a new report released by retiring Senator Tom Harkins (D-IA), 20 million Americans with disabilities are working age and only one third of them are in the workforce:
Americans with disabilities are more likely to be poor than any other demographic group, and their average income in 2012 was about $6,000 less than people without disabilities, according to a report released Thursday….More than 28 percent of adults aged 21 to 64 who have a disability and are not institutionalized live in poverty, compared with the overall 12.4 percent national poverty rate, the report says. The average annual income for adults with disabilities was about $6,000 lower than for people without disabilities.
Disabilities are expensive–a vehicle for someone with cerebal palsy to be able to be mobile can cost $135,000. Not to mention the stigma that many face for mental disabilities and getting help. And in 42 states custody of a child can be rescinded on the basis of a parent’s disability. We talk with Rebecca Cokley, the executive director of the National Council on Disability to get some answers.
Team Blackness also discussed L. Joy’s dreams, the People’s Climate March, and why we’re fed up with the New York Times.
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John Revolta
Huh. So, I guess there is something sadder than a hot person in a wheelchair.
Mnemosyne
My co-worker’s sister is prone to grand mal seizures even on medication. Most people probably look at her and think she should be working because she looks pretty normal, but McDonald’s really doesn’t want an employee who could unexpectedly seize and fall face-first into the fryer. So she has to live on (very small) disability payments and Medicaid.
cckids
It is beyond expensive, and not just for the disabled person themselves. My son, who is 31, is physically & mentally disabled. There is no program in my state to help with his care, because of the level of his medical needs, so I stay home to care for him. My husband makes a decent take-home, but he is self-employed, so that changes month-to-month. (That’s a decision we made 20 years ago, when our son’s hospitalizations & issues were so frequent that most employers wouldn’t accommodate his absences). Our son is on Medicaid & SSI, and thank FSM for both of them, but they don’t cover everything.
Our wheelchair-adapted van crapped out 3 years ago (it was a 1992 model). We just cannot afford another one, so whenever we need to go anywhere we physically lift our 155-lb son out of his wheelchair, into a regular minivan seat, break down the wheelchair & lift it into the back of the minivan (the back 2 seats are removed); then do it all in reverse when we get wherever we’re going. I’d say it is backbreaking, but mostly it is my shoulders that are going. And there isn’t much we can do about it.
I’m weary, occasionally depressed, and living in a version of “Groundhog Day”. We’d love to get out of this state (social services have really gone downhill since we moved here), but again, getting together the cash for that doesn’t seem to be in the cards. We’re in the depressing place that our financial position probably won’t improve until our son passes away & I can hopefully find a job.
Sorry for the pity rant, that isn’t what I’m intending.
Throwaway
1 in 15 Americans is disabled? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know why people living in the suburbs vote Republican? Because they say a 30-year-old with nothing wrong with him aside from a minor ski injury collecting disability and doing absolutely nothing all day but smoke up. Our disability system is broken – people with actual medical conditions are being turned down, while parasites who are fully capable of holding down a job are getting disability. Here’s just an excerpt of an NPR article on the topic:
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http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
In Hale County, Alabama, nearly 1 in 4 working-age adults is on disability.[2] On the day government checks come in every month, banks stay open late, Main Street fills up with cars, and anybody looking to unload an old TV or armchair has a yard sale.
Sonny Ryan, a retired judge in town, didn’t hear disability cases in his courtroom. But the subject came up often. He described one exchange he had with a man who was on disability but looked healthy.
“Just out of curiosity, what is your disability?” the judge asked from the bench.
“I have high blood pressure,” the man said.
“So do I,” the judge said. “What else?”
“I have diabetes.”
“So do I.”
Mnemosyne
@Throwaway:
I think you kind of missed the point of that article. Here it is:
The manufacturing and other light labor jobs that people currently on disability with relatively minor ailments might have been able to do have gone away, and these people don’t have the education or job experience for an office job. It’s either spending all day on your feet at Wal-Mart (if you can get it) or disability. I have heard many stories of people in their 50s applying for disability because no one is hiring people over 50. And on and on it goes.
Throwaway
@Mnemosyne: I have no beef with people close to retirement age getting disability. But as someone who has seen MANY people in their 30s and 40s on disability, often for very questionable neurologic and psychiatric diagnoses (e.g. had a seizure once ten years ago, no active sign of disease), there is definitely abuse going on. Also, they do have other options aside from Wal-Mart, they can pick fruits in our fields, especially in places like Georgia and Alabama. Of course, that will never happen, and the vast majority of these people problem blame Mexicans for all of the country’s woes.
Mnemosyne
@Throwaway:
Yes, people with back and neck problems that mean they can’t stand all day are good candidates to pick fruit instead. Wait, what?
No one is saying that the disability system isn’t prone to abuse, but we are saying that it would be a whole lot less prone to abuse if there were jobs available to people with a high school education and physical limitations. Most retail jobs require you to be able to lift 15 pounds or more, which would preclude a lot of the people in that story.
The Bobs
I’m now officially permanently disabled due to terminal cancer. It certainly does take a bite off your income. On the other hand I don’t have to go to work.
People probably think I look well enough to work, but boy am I not.
@Throwaway Your surprised at the 1/15 number? There are a lot of us out here. You just don’t see anything obviously wrong. It’s OK, I’ll be gone soon enough.
Throwaway
@The Bobs: Yes, I’m sure all of those 1 out of 15 have terminal cancer. See how easy it is to twist someone’s argument?
For the record, I have seen many, many patients with Stage 3 and even 4 cancer still go to work every day, because it gives them meaning and beats sitting at home feeling sorry for themselves. Those people milking the disability system, however, only know to sit at home and feel sorry for themselves over imaginary ills. And unlike the cancer patients, they’ll be around for many decades, doing nothing productive with their lives.
The Bobs
@Throwaway: I don’t feel sorry for myself, I feel sorry for you.
Throwaway
@The Bobs: I feel sorry for your family, since you clearly prefer spending your final days throwing strawman arguments against internet strangers than spending time with them.
The Bobs
@Throwaway: My illness is going to consume about 1/15 of my life. From my point of view the number hardly seemed outrageous. What is the source of your outrage?
Throwaway
@The Bobs: I know people with genuine disabilities who can’t get put on this program, while people without such disabilities are milking it, thus forming a backlash that Republicans can take advantage of to cut all social safety net programs. Liberals don’t like talking about this, but we must if we want the “independent” 20% of this country to take us seriously.
sylvainsylvain
The point is, no one gets on disability to get rich. I work with a guy that hurt his back working at the post office. It lays him up regularly; he needs to take about 5 days a month off.
He’s limited to $X income a month, or else they
a. deduct $ from his disability payments
And
b. question whether or not he’s really disabled.
For the people in their 50s who go on disability as some sort of retirement plan, they understand better than you or I how they’re opting out of 401Ks etc. This is another symptom of the Jobess Recovery.
Mnemosyne
@Throwaway:
Out of curiosity, is schizophrenia an imaginary ill or a real one? Depression? Bipolar? Sounds like those people need mental health counseling and support, not for you to kick their one means of support out from under them.
@sylvainsylvain:
Exactly my point above. I’m guessing that the majority of people with a minor disability would prefer to work if the job isn’t going to cause them additional damage or pain, and if working isn’t going to limit their access to health insurance.
Mnemosyne
@The Bobs:
You didn’t ask for hugs, but you can have some if you want. :-) I can understand that, with a terminal diagnosis, it would be much, much more important to get your life in order and spend as much time as you can with your family and friends than it would be to sit at a desk worrying about work. It probably means that you have your priorities in order.
Throwaway
@Mnemosyne: Given that I treat people with those conditions for a living, no, those are not what I am referencing. This is what I am referencing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder
I see there’s no point in having this argument here, because the commenters here are willfully naive. One day, liberals are going to wake up to a country with no social safety net, where senior citizens and the disabled are left to die in the streets, and it’ll be their own fault, because they’d rather let some parasites abuse our safety net than admit that maybe welfare doesn’t make its recipient a saint.
cckids
@Throwaway:
Not at all. Most of us liberals comprehend human nature & that there will always be someone out to get what they can. If you want the program to help as many people as possible who need it, this is just how it is. How much will you spend & just how, exactly, will you be sure that each person is disabled to your satisfaction?
I know people who are on SSDI whose doctors have verified them for it, who are absolutely scamming. I know some who need it who are having a terrible time getting approved. Both of these situations suck. I don’t just assume that someone who doesn’t “appear” disabled is faking.
Mnemosyne
@Throwaway:
Um, you did see that Conversion disorder is an actual DSM-IV diagnosis, right? That kind of makes it not fake by definition, unless you’re going to argue that everything in DSM-IV is equally fake.
You seem to think that the social safety net is far more generous than it actually is. Hopefully, you will never be forced into a position where you’ll be forced to live it yourself and see how bad it actually is.
Also, on behalf of The Bobs — go fuck yourself. I feel sorry for your patients if you’re lecturing someone with terminal cancer about how they should work themselves to death to make you feel better.
Mnemosyne
@cckids:
My co-worker’s sister referenced above is trying to get disability in the state she just moved to. It’s tough, because she’s young and appears healthy but, ADA or not, no employer is willing to take on someone with unpredictable grand mal seizures.
Throwaway
@Mnemosyne: You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Someone with conversion disorder DOES NOT HAVE AN ORGANIC DISEASE – the disease is solely in their heads. Yet each time one of them comes to the emergency department with symptoms of a stroke, even if their chart says that they’ve done this exact same thing ten times in the past year, they get a full stroke workup: Head CT, serum electrolytes, cell counts, etc etc not to mention that they take up a bed that could go to treating someone with an actual stroke. $5000 and a few hours of precious doctor/nursing hours later, they get sent home with a prescription to avoid stress. THIS is why our health care costs are atrocious. THIS is why so many healthcare providers are complete cynics. THIS is why our social safety net is screwed – because our system, and know-nothings like yourself, actively encourage this kind of behavior.
Gvg
appearances are no way to judge disability. the myth of fakers is way overstated. a lot of people look fine until they don’t. it’s also a lot easier to walk around a little than do a full days physical labor. I became aware when my grandmother was disabled that the disabled have family helping them too. I sometimes had to use her parking decal hanger in order to park where there was room to open the doors enough to get her in and then her wheelchair. I was fine, and people looked at me funny, till I came back out pushing her. You don’t know. if you think you know all about someone else, you are probably fooling yourself. People don’t always tell the neighbors intimate problems. heh I have seen people report others for financial aid fraud and investigations just showed the tattletales were fools.
there isn’t enough money in disability to make pretending that attractive. Being afraid of bills all the time is not a pleasant vacation.
Barbara
@Throwaway: Thanks for that clarification. All this time I’ve thought our health care costs were “atrocious” because the health insurance companies were skimming off the top like crazy — ever seen the Humana building in Louisville, Kentucky? It’s decorated in 14k gold leaf.
But no, it’s not that huge profits are built in every charge — it’s all those people with a condition I’ve never heard of before, Conversion Disorder, racking up bills. So I’ve learned two things, that Conversion Disorder is a real dx, and that people with it are the reason we as a nation spend so much on health care.
Mnemosyne
@Throwaway:
Please name a mental illness that is not solely in someone’s head. Schizophrenia is not an organic disease. Neither is depression, or bipolar. So I guess those people shouldn’t show up at a doctor and waste everyone’s time by pretending to be sick?
I really, really hope you don’t work with mentally ill patients, because telling someone that their schizophrenia is “solely in their head” isn’t going to help them as much as you seem to think it will.
Barbara
You know Throwaway, even if we had a magic wand, and we waved it and presto-change, everyone on disability was “legit,” and everyone who wasn’t, was kicked off, the people who are against providing a social service safety net WOULD STILL BE AGAINST it.
When Margaret Thatcher said, “There is no such thing as society, only individuals and families,” she didn’t add, “But of course we want to help those individuals and families affected by disability.” People who don’t believe in society, don’t believe in society. Capiche?
It’s not that we liberals don’t believe that there are in fact people who game the disability system. There isn’t anything happening in this world that isn’t gamed by somebody, somewhere. Rich people just get their lawyers to do it for them, and as a result, they cover their tracks better.
Mnemosyne
Also, to clarify: there is a problem with our current disability system, because it’s being forced to support people it was never designed to support, namely people abandoned by the “jobless recovery.” The majority of those people would probably prefer having some kind of desk or low physical effort job rather than having to try and get by on disability payments, but right now our system is set up to punish people who can’t work rather than finding a variety of jobs that people can do at a variety of ability levels. From the article that Throwaway linked to:
PurpleGirl
One time I was a sitting in the front seat of a bus and a woman across the aisle kept looking at me. I had my cane with me. But she kept looking at me. So I looked at her and said: “Would you like to exchange spinal cords… I’ve had surgery on a herniated disk and bone broken out, too.” She got very flushed and looked away quickly. There’s a reason I can’t stand on a moving bus and have to sit down.
ETA: Yes, looking at me you see a “healthy” larger woman; you don’t see the distressed spine. I may not be in pain but that doesn’t mean everything is 100% fine.
The Bobs
@Mnemosyne: Thanks. Glad I went away for a while. I couldn’t believe someone would talk to me like that either.
I spend as much time with my wife and my other relatives as possible. That is a gift and I enjoy it almost all the time.
Since my diagnosis, my sense of time has altered considerably. Time passes very slowly. All that meditation has got me to live in the moment to an amazing degree.
PhoningItIn
Mnemosyne has it right. I know a woman with a disability “not serious enough” to qualify for disability, but just enough to get her knocked out of job applications because technically, yes, she is disabled and needs a minor accommodation.
We no longer belief that she’s not qualified for anything she’s applied for after months of hard looking. We think the damned form that assures the applicant that “this data is used to help us comply with federal anti-discrimination laws” is being used to screen out people with non-obvious disabilities with the usual Catch-22: either lie on the form, risk getting caught for lying and get terminated. Or tell the truth on the form, get caught for telling the truth and get rejected.
If you have an emotional illness, you are highly likely to become homeless, and the fucking employers will surely do as much as they can to help you. God forbid they should have to get a minor education.