As we amble towards the end of the weekend…
The NYTimes has decided to attempt, once again, to make fetch capital-L Libertarianism happen:
“Let’s say Ron Paul is Nirvana,” said Kennedy, the television personality and former MTV host, by way of explaining the sort of politician who excites libertarians like herself. “Like, the coolest, most amazing thing to come along in years, and the songs are nebulous but somehow meaningful, and the lead singer kills himself to preserve the band’s legacy.
“Then Rand Paul — he’s Pearl Jam. Comes from the same place, the songs are really catchy, can really pack the stadiums, though it’s not quite Nirvana…
I met Kennedy (a gabby 41-year-old whose actual name is Lisa Kennedy Montgomery) in Midtown Manhattan at Fox News headquarters, where she hosts a Fox Business Network program called “The Independents.”…
Because a forty-something Fox talking head has the template to impress The Youngs, you bet. Jon Chait at NYMag is not impressed:
Barack Obama’s first term provoked the Republican Party’s most libertarian moment since the Goldwater campaign, or perhaps even the advent of the New Deal. Several things thrust the GOP in this direction. Needing to distance themselves from the failures of the now-departed Republican administration, most lurched toward the conclusion that George W. Bush had failed because he had embraced big government and forsaken the true free-market path. As it had under Bill Clinton, the Republican base grew more suspicious of the use of military power with a Democrat in office. And the scope of Obama’s economic agenda tended to overshadow social fissures. The result was an anti-statist outburst, bringing to the Party’s fore such libertarian figures as Glenn Beck, Rick Santelli, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, and the Koch brothers; a huge spike in sales of Ayn Rand novels; and a flowering of bluntly anti-statist policy and rhetoric.
The force of this moment has already receded, as most Republicans have subsequently recognized that their dalliance with Randian themes saddled them with a massive political liability that they are working diligently to undo. The political energy lies in downplaying its anti-government extremism and repositioning the Party — either substantively or rhetorically, depending on your view — as a more middle-class-friendly entity…
Jim Newell, at Salon, adds:
Libertarianism has a clever marketing trick. It tries to pitch itself as synonymous with “independent.” As in, if you’re an “independent” voter who’s fed up with both the Republican and Democratic parties, as many are, you’re a natural fit for libertarianism, a neutral collection area for those disenchanted with the two-party duopoly. Since a lot of people are fed up with the two-party duopoly, then, it would follow that libertarianism is growing and on the cusp of arriving as a viable national force…
But being an “independent” or, someone who’s looking for something other than the bundled packages that the Republicans and Democrats are selling, does not automatically make one a perfect candidate for libertarianism. That’s because libertarianism isn’t a void, it’s an ideology that’s selling its own bundle package. And some of its main components are far from what the disenchanted are looking to buy…
Indeed, the left-on-social-issues, right-on-economic-issues libertarian model has made a strong foothold among the entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley. But there’s something separating those #innovators from most other people who haven’t become libertarians: money. Those libertarians in Silicon Valley already have the big money. And economic security is the blind spot in libertarian ideology that separates it from the great mass of “independents.”…
And Professor Krugman sums up:
… But there’s what I would consider an even bigger problem: when it comes to substance, libertarians are living in a fantasy world. Often that’s quite literally true: Paul Ryan thinks that we’re living in an Ayn Rand novel. More to the point, however, the libertarian vision of the society we actually have bears little resemblance to reality.
Mike Konczal takes on a specific example: the currently trendy idea among libertarians that we can make things much better by replacing the welfare state with a basic guaranteed income. As Mike says, this notion rests on the belief that the welfare state is a crazily complicated mess of inefficient programs, and that simplification would save enough money to pay for universal grants that are neither means-tested nor conditional on misfortune. But the reality is nothing like that. The great bulk of welfare-state spending comes from a handful of major programs, and these programs are fairly efficient, with low administrative costs…
In other words, libertarianism is a crusade against problems we don’t have, or at least not to the extent the libertarians want to imagine. Nowhere is this better illustrated than in the case of monetary policy, where many libertarians are determined to stop the Fed from irresponsible money-printing — which is not, in fact, something it’s doing.
And what all this means in turn is that libertarianism does not offer a workable policy agenda. I don’t mean that I dislike the agenda, which is a separate issue; I mean that if we should somehow end up with libertarian government, it would quickly find itself unable to fulfill any of its promises…
***********
Apart from mocking the Versailles posturing of overage adolescents who find Gwyneth Paltrow’s lifestyle instructions not quite butch enough, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up the weekend?
WereBear
Funny thing: never met a Libertarian who had actually overcome significant life challenges.
It’s the “born on third base, thought they hit a triple”* school of philosophy.
*h/t to Molly Ivins
Keith G
Libertarianism rest on premises that can not function in the real world. Although far-fetched, it has gotten some it’s recent traction by out flanking establishment Democrats on many civil liberties issues. As more Democrats get wiser on their views on such things, some of the allure of libertarians will ebb.
Pogonip
It’d be all right with me if all the libertarians killed themselves. They’ve helped wreck America.
John, do you get a (cake and punch) party after a certain milestone of sobriety?
My mom once wanted to go to Weight Watchers but didn’t want to go by herself. I was telling my brother that whenever you lost weight you got applause, and when he said, “What happens if you lose all the weight you plan to lose?” I couldn’t resist; I said, “Then we all go out for pizza!”. Hee Hee Hee Hee. (Damn you, ghost of Steve Jobs–stop capitalizing my hee’s!)
lamh36
I’m following the story out of Ferguson, MO and just getting angrier and angrier over another young Black life taken and the same racial tropes being used to belittle the victim.
#IfTheyGunnedMeDown which pic would the news use? pic.twitter.com/hypt23WJuT
Also too the story of the Black guy in Wal-Mart…
Walmart Airgun Death Looks Worse Every Passing Day
Tim C.
weirdly enough, Libertarians remind me most of old school Marxists. There’s an interesting critique there, and I get what they are going for, but it in no way seems to be a workable plan with actual humans.
lamh36
The Other Bob
Can a libertarian point to an example of libertarianism at work in a functioning society anywhere in the world?
Cervantes
Anne Laurie:
Who’s wrapping up the week-end?
Thanks, by the way, Anne Laurie, for that last Nixon thread.
lamh36
If any of you care and have a twitter account, you can follow this twitter account for Vine videos from the protest in Missouri.
https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench
rikyrah
Libertarians do not live in the real world.
Plus, I’ll keep on bringing this up..
for all their talk of FREEDOM…
1. They want all up in my uterus.
2. They always have a problem with the pieces of legislation that ended American Apartheid – LEGALLY -for my ancestors.
Since 1, deals with me being a woman and 2 deals with me being Black..
you can see why Libertarianism has no appeal to me in the least.
Baud
@The Other Bob:
It’s never been tried!
Cervantes
@Tim C.: Left libertarianism can be made to work at human scale.
Nation-states do not work a human scale — that is to say, they do not operate at human scale; nor, increasingly, do they work at all.
Liberty60
Libertarianism is in fact a void- the basic premise, that the individual can be autonomous, and opt out of any engagement with the group, is a direct refutation of every society that has ever existed.
More to the point, it is a direct refutation of the aspirations and cultural mores of the overwhelming majority of Americans.
For example, conservatives like to say that members of a society have a moral obligation to provide assistance to other members, but via private nongovernmental organizations; Liberals suggest that government provides a better method of doing this.
Both of these idea spring from the long Abrahamic moral tradition of the reciprocal bonds between the individual and the clan.
But libertarian theory holds that this is illegitimate, an imposition of the collective on the individual.
The individual has no moral duty to the collective group that can be imposed involuntarily.
Which would be a radical enough departure from our moral traditions, except what lies beneath this is a lack of a vision of what might replace it. The moral tradition that undergirds our laws use as a starting point the idea that the human person possesses and inherent dignity and worth, that must be respected regardless of any other merit- even condemned criminals must be accorded dignity.
Yet in the libertarian positions on the sale of human organs or prostitution, you hear a denial of the concept of human dignity- it is just a moral value, not universal and illegitimate as a basis of law. A human body is property, and can be sold like a car.
Why humans possess rights, but not dignity, is a mystery left unexplained- a void at the heart of it all.
Dog On Porch
There is no such thing as libertarianism. It’s a conceit, a hodgepodge of incoherence, where pie-in-the-sky gibberish is packaged as irrefutable. It’s home sweet home for grifters and suckers alike.
D58826
ot back to Iraq.
A long piece over on kos – ‘ISIS In Iraq: U.S. Drone & F/A-18 Strikes Start and a Big Iraqi-Iranian Victory at Samarra’. If this guy knows what he is talking about then Western civilization will not, contra McNuts and Butters, fall.
And earthquake alert – according to Laura Ingram, on Fox of all places, said that Iraq is worse off than before Bush invaded and that Obama is facing an impossible situation. I’m sure Fox management is heating the boiling oil after such heresy.
RSA
@The Other Bob:
When I’ve asked this question, I’ve been told that the best example is… 9th century Iceland.
? Martin
Looking like Maliki is has gotten the backing of part of the Iraqi military and is planning to hold power by force.
Man, the Middle East can by downright sisyphean.
Suffern ACE
The fed too is printing money irresponsibly. Which is why I buy gold and that computer money. Weimar is just around the corner.
How are sovereign citizens different from libertarians? Or those guys in the 1990s who used to sue the Feds for trillions of dollars in damages over fiat money different from libertarians? I don’t see much besides tone.
MomSense
I was out working in the garden and then went to visit a neighbor. When I got home I found my Mom in the kitchen with the boys just dancing and laughing and listening to the Rolling Stones. It was like the funniest dance party ever.
WereBear
Libertarianism is like that person in every dorm who has no rheostat.
Fruit is good for you so I’ll live on nothing but fruit!
Studying gets good grades so I stayed up all night cramming, overslept, and missed the test!!
I realize I don’t have a personality so I’m a fan of Insane Clown Posse!
The germ of an idea is there, but the follow through absolutely sucks.
raven
Two minutes of puppy sneezing.
drkrick
@Suffern ACE:
Libertarians are less likely to act as if their ideas have actually been enacted into law. That’s about it.
Litlebritdifrnt
Following up to John’s experience at Wally World today. I went there recently and I was stunned by how empty the shelves were. Whereas my local Piggly Wiggly and Food Lion obviously diligently restock shelves every evening the shelves at Wal Mart were bare. The produce department had nothing on the shelves other than potatoes and some corn, all of the bagged salad shelves were bare, The Deli had nothing. 20 out of 25 deli meat products were missing, I asked the clerk for three different items and she said “sorry we are out”. The cheese counter was the same. I cannot fathom how they can run on this business model.
mdblanche
As one of The Youngs who Kennedy is trying to appeal to, I just have one question: who are Nirvana and Pearl Jam?
Bob In Portland
Speaking of Ron Paul, he’s talking about Ukraine.
Not that I trust Paul to ever be on the right side of an issue, but we have interesting circumstances here. Remember how there was no difference between Gore and Bush and how Nader peeled off enough votes in Florida to let the Supremes rip off the nation? Maybe Paul is being groomed to siphon some votes off the Republican candidate so that the permanent government’s candidate, Hillary, gets that extra push to put her into office. They would still get their wars a la John McCain, but without grandpa drooling on camera. A better parallel would be when that crank from Texas siphoned off votes during Bush1-Clinton1.
By the way, the Brits have had the black boxes from MH17 for a couple weeks now. It took a couple of days to get the information from the black boxes in the plane that went down in Africa. Still no satellite intel from the US and not one eyewitness on the ground reporting having seen a BUK launch’s contrail, which would have happened if either Ukraine or the rebels shot a missile.
Russia released their radar of the incident showing a Ukrainian jet near the airliner before it crashed. The US and the Ukraine haven’t released their radar. The Ukrainians immediately seized the cockpit-air traffic controller recordings and haven’t released them.
In the first day or two after the crash there were reports that the jets in the vicinity of the airliner were under the direct control of the Ministry of the Interior. This week, on the eve of the Ukrainians’ great victory over the rebels, Interior Ministry Parubiy, a founder of Svoboda, resigned his post. Wouldn’t you think he’d like to be at the victory parade when the Ukrainian army liberates Donetsk?
But maybe the story everyone here was willing to swallow won’t hold up, and there will be a sacrificial lamb prepared for the airline downing.
Also, the NY Times finally admitted that there are anti-rebel militias that are “angry” and “uncontrollable” and are marching under a “Swastika-like” flag. So after Odessa and Mariupol these angry militias with flags similar to the kind the Ukrainians marched under while killing Jews and Russians in WWII for the greater glory of the Third Reich still can’t be called Nazis.
Bite my tongue.
WereBear
@Liberty60: Few of them have ever read early Ayn Rand, where it’s quite clear she’s a sociopath driven into a lifelong tantrum by loss of status in her formative years and the enforced collective culture in revolutionary Russia.
Yes, I took a seminar in college. Her early works were shorter.
Pogonip
@raven: Cute!
When I was a kid our dog would get really excited playing in the snow. When she came in she would do several fast laps around the coffee table, then sneeze repeatedly, then snort in a satisfied manner and flop down. It was so funny.
Frankensteinbeck
Ron and Rand Paul want to enforce fundamentalist morality, the Kochs fund the Tea Party, their daddy founded the Birchers, and the last guy who wanted to tell me how the government should leave him alone also told me what he knew about The Negro. There is no upswell of libertarianism. It didn’t exist in the first place. Half the country can’t say out loud that they’re angry and scared because a black man is president.
raven
@Pogonip: Cats don’t do that!
Karen in GA
Iggy shows why we can’t have nice things.
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: Methinks that is a wildly exceptional situation. We may not like em but they sure as hell have an effective business model.
raven
This is one hell of a golf tournament. Of course they probably won’t finish today.
SiubhanDuinne
Oh, let’s not.
Suffern ACE
@raven: nope. Stocking issues have been a problem now for two years. Their vaunted supply chain system is being stymied by a last mile problem.
raven
@Suffern ACE: Ah, didn’t know that.
Mike in NC
Who used to talk about blowing Rush Limbaugh. Go buy some self respect, bitch.
? Martin
@Litlebritdifrnt:
To some extent, they aren’t.
WalMart has likely peaked. Amazon is eating them up from one end, their expansion options are played out, and consumers like me will never shop there, favoring Costco and local retailers. That doesn’t mean they are going anywhere soon, but I think more and more retail competition is going to crop up. They’re going to start losing in some retail markets.
Ken
libertarian government
I can’t decide if that’s nonsensical because the adjective doesn’t go with the noun, like Shakespeare’s “heavy lightness”; or if it’s more like “pink unicorn” where one word is imaginary – except in this case the adjective.
Suffern ACE
@? Martin: yep. Read an article today that does not make me think a coordinated response is possible. It isn’t Shia policy that created any negative pushback. No. The Kurds stabbed the Shia in the back is the sentiment. I think we should go about Iraq destroying our tanks and equipment. On all three sides. Everyone to their own corner. First one not to attack any of the others for two years gets a kitten.
KG
The problem with Big-L Libertarianism is that it operates on the basic idea that people are inherently good. It also operates on the notion that everyone has equal access to perfect information and knows how to properly analyze said perfect information. When you work with those basic assumptions, it is easy to get to the point where you see government as the Big Bad. You also get dangerously close to an anarchist world view.
Small-L libertarianism is basically “keep my taxes low and leave me alone.” That’s mostly my fortune cookie political philosophy. In practice, it gets a bit more complicated because I’ve come to recognize that tyranny is not exclusively a government thing, that oligarchy can be just as dangerous. But unfortunately, most libertarians don’t get that.
Funny story, a while back, I got into a Facebook argument with someone wherein I was declared a statist because I made the outlandish statement that government is a rather necessary thing to allow society to function. I was told if you took the government completely out of a small town (I forget the city that was actually named) that nothing would change. I don’t think I got an answer when I asked what would happen when someone killed someone else or violated a contract or was otherwise negligent in a way that would cause harm, but if think it was along the lines of “shut up, that’s why”
KG
@Suffern ACE: by “kitten” I assume you mean “recognition as a nation state under international law”? Because I’m guessing that is what the three major factions in Iraq want. And very much not what any of their neighbors want
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As one of the middle ageds who actually remembers when MTV had VJs and played music videos, they’re groups “Kennedy”‘s younger siblings and cousins told her about, they formed about five years after “Kennedy” got fired by MTV
From the same era, Dr Frasier Craine: “Don’t try to sound hip, Kennedy. It’s like watching Bob Hope dress up as the Fonz” (ask your parents who The Fonz was, your grandparents may remember Bob Hope).
NotMax
Fox Business Network?
Bwah-hahahahahaha.
Watched by a barely perceptible number of people. In the key 25 – 54 age demographic, the total audience is particularly abysmal.
Mandalay
@? Martin:
Maybe, maybe not. It looks like they recognized they have a problem, and they are trying to do something about it….
More Walmart stores everywhere. Great.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Okay, I was curious, and I can admit I was wrong. I would’ve bet MTV had gone full time Real World by ’94. The nineties are fuzzy.
Though I think this means I was still kind of right.
She alternated with Rose Marie and Joe Isuzu
Dog On Porch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: From my parents point of view, I may as well have been born on Mars, so much did the America I was born and raised in differ from the country of their youths.
Thoughtful David
I agree that libertarians are living in a fantasy.
The problem with libertarianism is that it’s an inherently unstable system–it can’t last for more than about a day before decaying into authoritarianism, human nature being what it is. If you could install some kind of real libertarian “government,” in a couple of years you’d wind up like Somalia–a place run by local warlords for their own benefit. That will _always_ be the end result of a real libertarian “utopia,” because libertarianism has nothing to check the decay into authoritarianism.
Lurking Canadian
@RSA: yep. Where you had to take your sword with you to the outhouse, for fear of assassins. FREE-DUMB!
the Conster
@Tim C.:
Obligatory epic takedown of Libertarianism ever.
? Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Kennedy is still a DJ. Or had been as of a few months ago. Not that she had anything to do with the programming, either.
fleeting expletive
What is the deal with Omnes? I was trying to catch up and so I went back in the threads to yesterday but didn’t find any information.
Thank you.
Mike J
@KG:
I don’t think this is true. Every Libertarian I’ve ever met says that if you don’t have the information, it’s your fault. If you don’t know what to do with the information, it’s your fault. And if it’s your fault, it’s morally acceptable for you to die in the street.
StringOnAStick
I suspect all the bandying about of the word “libertarianism” is just to give people something to attach their ginned up fears to since “republican” is toxic to many young people. If you are younger than 40, then you’ve only seen increasingly dysfunctional government in the US and you know your economic prospects aren’t as good as your parents’ were.
FOX and the righty-leaning media have done a fine job of convincing this demographic that Social Security will be an empty cardboard box when they get old enough; I hear this from well-educated, master’s level science professionals who lean liberal, and if they’re buying it then you know the less educated take it as set in stone. So of course the politics of resentment are finding a foothold, and they’re trying to make libertarianism the natural home for people who are feeling this way. The Koch strategy is a many-tentacled thing.
JPL
Mediate has a clip on Palin talking about something or nothing, I’m not quite sure. John McCain needs to watch it ten times and then apologize to the country. link
? Martin
@Mike J: Libertarianism is the right to be shot in the back of the head on a dark corner and having your wallet stolen.
StringOnAStick
@Mike J: That sounds like the Efficient Market Hypothesis, but applied to all aspects of life; I guess I can see why a lot of MOTU types are libertoonian then.
I do think this idea of a guaranteed base income for everyone is great PR, and about as far from what most libertoonians I’ve known would agree to as mass collectivization would be. Where would that guaranteed income come from but that libertarian uber-evil known as taxes? Wouldn’t the beloved Producers have to share more of their wealth with the moochers if there was a base income for everyone? That right there tells me this is being floated as a trial balloon to get more people inside their tent while their minds are still malleable (or so they think, since that’s when they bought into it). A guaranteed income with enough for tunes, weed and your cell service doesn’t sound too bad when you’re 17 and still living with your parents.
OzarkHillbilly
Am I the only person who finds discussions about libertarianism really boring because they are so redundant? And don’t bother answering, I’ve heard that before too.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: :) That’s why I posted the sneezing puppy video.
WereBear
Tea Party, libertarianism, No Labels… it’s all desperate attempts to rebrand the Republican Party, but it’s like New Coke. If all they had was New Coke.
JPL
@raven: Finch didn’t appreciate the video. My son’s Maltese, Nona, does the reverse sneeze thing.
Karen in GA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember Kennedy on MTV in the early 90s. I lived out in the sticks (Brooklyn), so I didn’t get cable until then.
And my God, she was annoying.
ETA: And you were already checking the dates before I posted. Never mind.
raven
@JPL: Bohdi liked the husky howl.
Suffern ACE
@fleeting expletive: what’s the post that makes you think there is a problem with Omnes?
Mike J
@StringOnAStick:
Another thing I’ve often heard from Libertarians is that everything short of physical force should be legal, so that if you just happen to be smarter than somebody else, it’s perfectly ethical to take advantage of them.
They’ve never really been able to explain why they should be allowed to use the talent they have an edge in and others who may have an edge in physical strength shouldn’t be allowed to use their own talents.
raven
@Suffern ACE: The sounds of silence.
Iowa Old Lady
@raven: Thank you
KG
@Mike J: well that’s the other side of the coin to what I was saying. The idea, better stated, is that everyone can get perfect information. I’ll admit, in my youth and inexperience, I subscribed to the idea that if you couldn’t properly analyze the info, then it was your fault. I’m not as harsh as I use to be.
@StringOnAStick: yeah, the rational market hypothesis as a governing principle is pretty spot on.
SiubhanDuinne
@fleeting expletive:
I don’t know what you mean by “deal,” but if you mean you haven’t seen him recently, I think it’s because he’s been on vacation.
ETA: How dare he, eh?
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Deal Garcia
Since it costs a lot to win, and even more to lose,
You and me bound to spend some time wond’rin’ what to choose.
KG
@Mike J: well, the ideological answer would be that physical force against another person is a violation of that person’s right to be left alone. The real world answer is more likely that most of the libertarians were pencil necked geeks who got stuffed in lockers in high school and never got over it
Thoughtful David
@the Conster:
That’s good.
fleeting expletive
Good to know, thanks. I thought I had seen some comments earlier that implied something had happened to him/her.
Oh, people were saying that they missed Omnes. Vacation totally cool.
Never mind.
raven
@fleeting expletive: It’s nice you care.
Mike J
@KG:
If Bill Gates wanted to buy every grocery store and gas station within 200 miles of where you live, he could. I think it would be economic violence if he got pissed off at somebody and refused to let them buy anything including food. Libertarians would think it both hunky and dory.
NotMax
Election remains up in the air.
JPL
@NotMax: I haven’t followed the race. Since a democrat is poised to win in November, is there a concern?
BBA
Wait, the basic income is libertarian now? I thought the basic income was an economics class spherical-cow abstraction that would be politically and technically infeasible to implement as such. Libertarians would be opposed to it, because libertarians reject all forms of welfare.
Minor quibble. Carry on.
fleeting expletive
Thank you, raven. I do care. This is one of my favorite blogs and I appreciate the stories and insights here.
Suffern ACE
@fleeting expletive: that’s little boots. He misses Omnes when Omnes nods off and goes to bed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“People”? Or Omnes’ personal stalker?
somebody should check to see if Omnes isn’t tied up in Little Pig’s basement like Sandra Bernhardt and Robert DeNiro did to Jerry Lewis in that movie. The King of Comedy?
Iowa Old Lady
It looks like something is happening in Iraq. A coup maybe? Reports are really confused on twitter.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
It’s possible he went on vacay without notifying Little Boots, who was getting a bit testy at his absence last night.
ETA: Sorry, typed without seeing Suffern Ace’s comment saying much the same.
JPL
@lamh36: I don’t have an account but I’m still able to read the updates.. Thanks for the link.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: I have that clown pied.
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
I don’t do Twitter and I (so far) don’t see anything in more conventional media. Have a link?
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: http://www.businessinsider.com/iraqi-prime-minister-maliki-defiant-as-allies-call-for-his-ouster-2014-8 This is earlier today..
lamh36
Eric Holder and the Civil Rights division has been pretty good in my view. I’m hoping that the DOJ of the next Dem administration continues to bring focus to these types of possible violations too.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
You are smarter than I am. I watch in amazement. Every.Single.Time.
realbtl
@raven:
Damn you Raven for linking to that particular Garcia series, I just lost 20 min figuring out what I could perform with acoustic guitar and my friend the fiddler. Definitely Deal and New Speedway Boogie. Heading back to see if Ship of Fools will work.
/olds musician rant
raven
@realbtl: Wheel?
Suffern ACE
@Iowa Old Lady: yes. It looks like that dipshit has decided to declare Iraq Shiite heaven by arresting the Kurdish president.
I think he has syphilis.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Good.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: Maliki has called out the Iraqi military in a bid to hang on to power:
the big outlets (NYT, BBC, Guardian) seem to be waiting for details
raven
They are playing 18 in the dark.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: From the article at Business Insider, I clicked on a few of the
twitter feeds. This one is interesting.. https://twitter.com/AlOraibi You don’t need an account just to view.
Iowa Old Lady
@SiubhanDuinne: Here’s Reuters (I hope. My computer is so slow at the moment, I’m not sure what I’m getting).
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/10/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0G808J20140810?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=71&google_editors_picks=true
ETA: Yeah, that’s not very useful. JPL’s link is better
lamh36
Police Shooting Victim Michael Brown Remembered as a ‘Gentle Giant’ http://lgf.bz/1sDUW11
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Thanks!
I wouldn’t be POTUS or SoS for anything you could offer me. Even if I were remotely qualified, which, needless to say, I am not.
raven
@lamh36: Reminds me of Radio Raheem.
JPL
@Iowa Old Lady: Did you see this? Fully support Iraq Pres Masum as Constitution guarantor & a PM nominee who can build natl consensus. That’s from the State department..
https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk
raven
@JPL: Maybe they’ll offer Maliki a ride in an APC.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tim C.:Marx’ analysis of capitalism was pretty good.
His solution, OTOH, was just stupid. A lot like American libertarianism.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I thank you. I have semi-deliberately kept myself away from news coverage today. It’s been sending me into such a rage lately, I figured my blood pressure was more important than being right up to the minute.
The downside is, of course, that I come across as an ignorant doofus on Balloon Juice.
realbtl
@raven:
Finally back, no not wheel but definitely Ship of Fools if I can figure out the chord progression which is fascinating from a musical POV. I’ve done New Speedway solo for a while but I think it would be killer with a raw sounding fiddle.
Poopyman
Are we sure Little Boots is a He?
And speaking of the absents, where’d Aji go?
Bob In Portland
It’s the patriotic thing to do.
Iowa Old Lady
@JPL: That’s interesting. I can’t tell if that’s news or one of the things that should make you go hmmmm? Who was pulling what levers?
JPL
@raven: They are fortifying the embassy in Baghdad. It does sound like the administration decided they could no longer work with Maliki..
Mr Stagger Lee
@? Martin: Also Dollar General is grabbing the low income money.
Poopyman
@JPL: Saigon 1975 all over again. Fire up the ‘copters.
KG
@Mike J: yeah, and that is one of the major issues I have with libertarianism. It sees only governmental economic action (mostly as regulator though many don’t like government bring a market participant either) as a problem and sees no problem with private market manipulation. My favorite argument they make is “monopolies only exist because of government!” To which my stock answer is “ever hear of standard oil?”
raven
@realbtl: Here’s my buddies band Hogeyed Man
Suffern ACE
@Poopyman: nah. Saigon was orderly by comparison to what we are going to witness.
NotMax
@JPL
Yes and no, the yes being that getting rid of Hanabusa is a Good Thing.
Kay
I saw an ad for a lawyer in an Ohio journal that had “more John Maynard Keynes than John Galt” as one of the qualifications, which made me laugh.
If you understand that and agree, you’re in the running!
Jewish Steel
Nirvana’s breakout was 23 years ago. So, that means Nevermind bears the same relationship to today’s yutes as The White Album did in 1991.
Pretty hip!
Jewish Steel
@Jewish Steel: And the musical, Hair.
JPL
@NotMax: Hopefully, that is what happens then.
realbtl
@raven:
I’ll check them out. Since we’re having an OT music thread have you heard of Goose Creek Symphony? One of my favorites since the 70s and they are still active on youtube. I’d link but I’m a html dumbshit. Good southern bluegrass/rock/whatever mix.
SiubhanDuinne
@Poopyman:
I always thought LB was a she, but a fairly recent post prompted me to reconsider. Now I’m just not sure.
Not that it matters.
Suffern ACE
@SiubhanDuinne: he is a he.
Eta: and I suspect that he doesn’t always post here as little boots. I think lb is his night time persona.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suffern ACE:
That’s fine. He slightly creeps me out, but it’s not directed at me, and really I am a “live and let live” kind of person so I’m not going to fuss.
Cervantes
@JPL:
Other than the clown at the very top, the previous administration had already decided it couldn’t work with Maliki. He is a mediocrity elevated to power by Cheney et al. because they thought he’d be sufficiently pliable — who has kept himself in power by indulging the worst instincts of his (Shia) community. It is long past time for him to go.
Cervantes
@SiubhanDuinne: Slightly?
NotMax
@Suffern ACE
Less a persona than a disorder.
SiubhanDuinne
@Cervantes:
Yeah, well…
SiubhanDuinne
@Cervantes:
@NotMax:
I’m not going to bash. Those who are the objects of LB’s attention can fend for themselves just fine without my help.
Cervantes
@SiubhanDuinne: If I were the worrying kind, I’d be more worried about the subject than the object.
SiubhanDuinne
Has anyone had a good look at tonight’s Super Moon? Here in metro Atlanta, unfortunately, the skies are so overcast with thick, damp, intermittent clouds that the moon is mostly obscured. Every few minutes they disperse for a couple of seconds and a smeary moon peeks coyly out from behind the veil, then darts back into hiding.
Yatsuno
@Poopyman: Aji got busy with her blog & personal life stuff. I hope she comes back, I miss talking with her.
My Truth Hurts
My generation referencing Nirvana and Pearl Jam nowadays is like asshole baby boomers going on and on about the Beatles and the Stones in the 1990s. It’s why we listened to bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam in the first place. Because boomers were condescending and out of touch.
Oh history, there you go a circling back round again.
SiubhanDuinne
@Cervantes:
Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Bill Arnold
@Cervantes:
Can it be made appealing (and intuitive) to engineers?
Suffern ACE
@My Truth Hurts: you missed the part of the article where they has their big libertarian gala and themed it around 80s night. The millennials must be crawling over themselves to attend. I mean, where can a person find an opportunity for 80s night with people in their mid 40s and 50s?
LAllen5589
Federal Judge, Middle District of Alabama, arrested in Alabama.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/federal-judge-arrested-for-battery/ngyss/?icmp=ajc_internallink_textlink_homepage
Chris
@Liberty60:
I don’t think there’s that clear of a line between the conservative and libertarian positions. Libertarians happily justify their ideology on the basis that it’s the most efficient way to see to it that the poor are taken care of (trickle-down, etc): and plenty of conservatives will argue that, if not all poor people, then at least many poor people are only that way because of their own moral flaws and giving them money would just be enabling them (I’ve heard at least one pastor deliver an entire sermon on the need to be careful who you were subsidizing).
Which really gets to the basic problem with any analysis of “libertarianism” – it’s much too entwined with conservatism for us to really be able to judge it as a separate ideology. The bulk of it is indistinguishable from conservatism. “Libertarians are what conservatives call themselves when they’re trying to get laid” isn’t just a line, it really does pretty well summarize it.
Chris
@Mike J:
The defining moment of modern American libertarianism was when Ron Paul said in front of CPAC (think it was CPAC) that people who didn’t have health insurance should be left to die, and the entire room stood up and cheered. The notion that you might just not have health insurance because you couldn’t afford – nope. Don’t let that bother your beautiful mind.
That was also the defining moment of modern American conservatism. But I repeat myself.
Console
The biggest civil liberty question of the 20th century in America was segregation. Libertarians had no response for that. In fact Barry Goldwater pins the libertarian solution on the wrong side of history. For 2 of the biggest questions in the 21st century, Libertarianism still has no coherent answer (illegal immigrant underclass, gay marriage). And abortion is still one they have no real solution to. For that reason alone, it’s hard to see Libertarianism going outside its privileged white male wheelhouse. There are real problems of freedom/liberty that the philosophy isn’t even remotely equipped to handle and which ultimately expose american Libertarianism as merely a more intellectual sounding “Fuck you, I got mine.”
And don’t get me started on environmental issues. If your philosophy can’t get something as basic as water rights correct… then what use is it to governing?
Of course that doesn’t mean the left can’t be divided by Libertarian principles. The war on drugs and the security state are important questions that Libertarians definitely have the answer to.
Chris
@Tim C.:
Yeah, I agree.
The difference is that you could reliably expect “the establishment” (be it politicians, the rich, clerical elites, the military/security state, wev) to stomp hard on Marxism wherever they found it. By contrast, plenty of the people in these institutions have bought the libertarian kool aid hook, line, and sinker.
ETA:
@Villago Delenda Est:
At least you can say that Marx’s analysis was useful, even if his proposed solution was not.
Libertarianism, you can’t even say that it brings anything useful to the conversation.
Kyle
The glibertarians of my acquaintance (thinly disguised right-wing Republicans) have a solution — the fetus has rights, so the woman is forced to give birth.
Matt McIrvin
@WereBear: It actually seems to me that many of the online libertarian types are people who are not doing so well, and blame the state, moochers and liberals for their problems. If all that stuff just got out of their way, they’d be kings.
Captain C
@Thoughtful David:
I think libertarianism counts on everyone acting perfectly all the time, for libertarian definitions of perfect.
Which has pretty much never happened, anywhere, ever.
In other words, nothing.