Haldeman: "On the investigation, the Democratic break-in thing, we’re back in the problem area because the FBI is not under control."
— billmon (@billmon1) January 10, 2014
Nixon: "When you open that scab…we just feel that this would be very detrimental to have this thing go any further…"
— billmon (@billmon1) January 10, 2014
Phone call Christie made 2 Cuomo, asking 2 call off dogs http://t.co/bIqRswkqLX is strongest evidence he was in on coverup, if not the crime
— billmon (@billmon1) January 10, 2014
Billmon’s not the only one line-by-lining Bridge-gate as the second, farcical coming of Watergate. Here’s David Simon, the man behind The Wire:
… For that kind of behavior you need someone really, really small. For the anger and argument to become that self-absorbed and infantile… You need someone who saw himself as being not only larger than the sum of his constituents, but larger than the commonweal itself. Add in the potential for actually harming innocent people — ambulances unable to reach calls, school buses unable to transport children… For this kind of petty venality, you have to look to a Huey Long or a Richard Nixon, someone for whom any fealty to democratic processes and public service no longer matters when personal ambition and aggrandizement are at stake.
If Mr. Christie didn’t order this mayhem himself, then he knew because the aides who achieved this carnage on his behalf were so successful in doing so that they could not have possibly held their silence. Not over the course of four long days of maintaining the traffic snarl in Fort Lee… The same kind of people who would embark on such an action would not be able to do anything but run right down the hall to tell the governor how they had delivered pain to his political enemy. They would then wait on their attaboy. People of that ilk live for the attaboy. Like cats with a fresh-caught mouse, they were bringing home a prize. And there’s no joy for any housecat if the prize can’t be displayed to the master of the house.
I’m sorry for Mr. Christie, who seems in his better moments to be something of a leader. But anger and argument lose all charm when they are employed for stakes so small, stupid and selfish. He knew. And he’s lying about it now.
Taegan Goddard at Political Wire points out, per the WSJ, that Christie was trying to obstruct the investigation going back to at least mid-December. Ben Smith, Koch-funded editor of Buzzfeed, sniffs the wind and publishes a post on “Why The Christie Mess Is Even Worse For Him Than It Seems“. Alex MacGillis at TNR hunts down Christie’s high school baseball coach to establish that, even then, thrown-under-the-bus aide David Wildstein was “sitting on the bench and providing the Lancers with data that helped make them one of the best teams in the state. The classic loyal geek. And decades later, he was still doing what he could behind the scenes to help the big man on campus, Chris Christie. Except it was again in Christie’s interest to look right past him…”
As the original miscreant so famously said, “It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up.”
Bill E Pilgrim
I guess I should have waited five minutes and posted this here.
mclaren
Who gives a shit about Chris Christie?
He’s not going to come anywhere close to a Republican nomination for serious national office. Likewise, Ted Cruz, if nominated, will go down in flames much worse than Rmoney.
So the real issue facing the Democratic party for the near future (meaning the 2016 presidential election cycle) involves a choice between reaffirming the well-intentioned but deeply corrupt and corporate-owned Clinton family, or moving to a genuinely progressive candidate like Elizabeth Warren.
That’s the big issue for liberal Democrats right now. Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, they’re sideshows. Those clowns are going nowhere. They’re in the same category as Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Bobby Jindal. None of those people can appeal to significant slice of the mainstream electorate. The Tea Party may love ’em, Texans may give ’em ticker-tape parades, New Jersey may adore ’em, but outside of those niches, they’re dead meat on a stick electorally speaking.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@mclaren:
fuck off.
NotMax
If a private firm built and owned the bridge, this never would have happened. Once again, big government is the problem.
/wingnut
(Just speculating on how this debacle will be spun next.)
beltane
TPM is reporting that some WSJ editors were among those stuck in Christie’s traffic jam. That’ll show those liberals.
skerry
I’m more interested in how we stop the fast track for the Trans Pacific Partnership treaty. That is really scary.
kc
Get this:
September 13, 8:41 a.m Bill Baroni to Pat Foye: “Pat we need to discuss prior to any communication”
Sept. 13, 8:55 a.m. Foye to Baroni: “Bill we are going to fix this fiasco”
Sept 13, 9:03 a.m. Baroni to Foye: “There can be no public discourse”
Someone seems really anxious to keep info from being disseminated.
mclaren
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):
Spoken with all the intellectual gravitas and deep concern for evidence and logic of the typical Balloon Juice commenter.
“…what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.” — from the movie Billy Madison (1995)
kc
@mclaren:
Who gives a shit about Chris Christie?
He’s not going to come anywhere close to a Republican nomination for serious national office.
But reporters love him like they loved McCain.
Snarki, child of Loki
Christie admitted, right from the very first question, months ago, that he was personally on the GWB, putting out the cones
I think we should take him at his word.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kc: He’s got McCain press coverage and he would have (had?) Romney’s financial advantage in the primaries and general. He might well be toast, but I still think that until 48 hours ago he was the R’s best candidate.
Violet
Chris Christie is one of the big stars of the GOP, or so everyone thought. Him going out in a protracted scandal will drag down the GOP brand. That is good news for the country. It’ll especially be a drag on the “moderate” side of the GOP, since that’s where Christie supposedly was. That means emboldened crazy ass teabaggers–“See! You can’t trust those moderate Republicans!”
Popcorn.
LanceThruster
When will Christie know it’s time to go?
dmsilev
To quote Jon Stewart from last night, the tone Christie set for his administration is ‘FU Sharp’.
beltane
@Snarki, child of Loki: You’ve misunderstood the quote. This either has something to do with ice cream cones or is the fault of Comrade deBlasio.
BGinCHI
Karl Rove must be asking himself, “How in the HELL did I avoid getting caught doing something like this in TX in the 90s?”
Birds of a fucking feather.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mclaren: Fuck off
Violet
@LanceThruster: Time to go where? Next week he’s going to Florida for a series of fundraisers, including one for Rick Scott.
MikeJ
@BGinCHI:
He didn’t screw up the commute of anybody that worked for the WSJ. This is only a big deal because New York.
mclaren
@skerry:
Good point. The corruption in the Democratic party runs deep, and affects the Obama administration as well as the Clintons. The Clintons are deeply corrupted by the money they’ve taken from Wall Street financial crime lords like Goldman Sachs and by the fact that Chelsea Clinton married a hedge fund trader, while Obama is deeply corrupted by the
donations for his presidential librarybribes he has taken in order to pass the profoundly dishonest license-to-steal for giant monopolistic American corporations misnamed the Trans-Pacific Partnership.Source: “Obama Lame Duck Watch: House Democrats Stymieing Trade Deal “Fast Track;” Silicon Valley Surveillance Payoff Language Published,” nakedcapitalism.com, 10 January 2013.
beltane
@BGinCHI: Does anyone, at least any Republican, ever get in trouble for doing anything in Texas? That state is an accountability free zone for wingnuts.
Cervantes
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): You know, that might be the most cogent argument you’ve made in a while.
Ash Can
Both the left and right are saying, “See? We told you he was a putz.” And any broad, squishy “centrists” who are still deluded into believing Christie is still viable as a national candidate are trying to argue that he’s handled this mess better than Obama has handled any of his crises, such as… And then they proceed to rehash Benghazi, the IRS, or some other kerfluffle that was yesterday’s news, has long since been defused and/or debunked, and that no one cares about any more except them and a bunch of mentally disturbed teahadis. Meanwhile, the great irony in all of this is that the one potential GOP presidential candidate, among all those even identifiable at this early stage of the game, who had any actual moments of sanity and competence in his track record has been the one to get run over by his own dickishness and have his ass blown out of the race. When you step back and look at the big picture, it looks as though karma might have it in for the GOP after all.
mclaren
@efgoldman:
That’s apparently a code phrase meaning “get the n*gger off the New Jersey Supreme Court.”
Not the best electoral strategy outside white suburban New Jersey, really. Yet another reason why oafs like Christie are going nowhere in national electoral politics.
lamh36
Ya know what the best kinda money to receive is…money you were never expecting to receive and you didn’t have to do anything to get. I paid off my car in late 2012, just got a notice from my former loan company that they had reviewed their files an I had been charged fees I shouldn’t have been. So they cut me a check for the complete amount of the overcharge!! Good way to start out a weekend, right?
BGinCHI
@beltane: True. It’s like they expect to be killed by their GOP overlords.
Violet
@lamh36: Nice! Whatever happened with the job you interviewed for and they offered you on the way home? The one in NOLA?
tybee
@mclaren:
only one problem: warren ain’t running.
beltane
How long until Andrew Cuomo is accused of being hyper-partisan and mean spirited for not helping his neighbor with the cover up?
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman: Posted Maddow’s clip here last night.
beltane
@BGinCHI: They welcome death at the hands of their GOP overlords because this is a sign that ultimate Freedom has been achieved.
Ash Can
@Violet:
I’m thinking the same thing. Who’s left in the GOP to run as a “moderate”? Tom Fucking Coburn? This has got to pose a real concern for the big-money types in the GOP.
Jay C
If any recent affaire illustrates this classic, if simple maxim, it’s Chris Christie’s “Bridgegate” – a cheap, stupid, politically-motivated prank at bottom: but one whose negative fallout was not only apparently completely unanticipated (through arrogance? stupidity? poor planning?), but which might prove far more damaging to the author than any alternative might.
Good job. Governor…..
Culture of Truth
@Cervantes: Did we ever got a copy of the traffic study?
dmsilev
Correction of the day, courtesy of the NY Time’s story on The Bridge:
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
A few weeks ago when I totally retired, I cancelled my monthly parking contract with my office building. Turns out I had been over barged for quite a while, and they cut me a cheque for $200 bucks. Nice found money, during the holidays.
Violet
@Ash Can: The “moderate” wing of the GOP is just anyone who is left who isn’t a nutjob teabagger. McCain? McConnell? Lindsey Graham? As far as governors go, maybe someone like Susanna Martinez of NM? The “center” of the Republican party has moved so far rightward that “moderate” means something entirely different than it did ten or fifteen years ago.
ChrisNYC
Always despised Christie. Always will. Looking forward to his continued going down in flames. It’ll be this or it’ll be the surely innumerable other illegal/distasteful megalomaniac stunts he’s pulled. If his crack team of advisors were so indiscreet in their emails about the GWB they surely were on other matters.
Anne Laurie
@MikeJ:
Yeah, but Christie has only ever been a big deal because New York — specifically, Wall Street money backing his eventual Presidential run. Lotta those prospective fundraisers have to cross the GWB every day, and as Buzzfeed points out, Christie just moved from ‘Guy who appreciates Hard-Working Capitalists Like Us” to “Jagoff who fvcked up our commute because he’s a petty little bully”. There’s plenty Repub candidates willing to tonguebathe Hard-Working Capitalists, but only Christie’s been identified as a traffic cone.
MikeJ
@Ash Can:
Huntsman. Pawlenty. Thune.
You don’t have to actually be sane to pretend to be a moderate Republican, just avoid actually drooling on yourself in public.
Ash Can
@efgoldman: I see no reason it couldn’t have been both, although the timing does favor the state SC flap.
lamh36
@Violet: I still have not heard from the recruiting office at the job aside from a call Monday about faxing a release form. Nothing to say that my faxed copy was received, nothing to say what step in the process we are in, nothing.
I know I’m probably expecting too much, but every job I’ve ever applied for once the interview happened if they wanted to consider you for the position you were made aware of the process and if you weren’t being considered you were notified of the disinterest. I haven’t heard from them yet.
IDK, maybe I was just spoiled by my previous experiences but in my mind this does not make a good impression to me of the company’s human resources management or HR environment. It’s particularly stark right now because I just came from a premiere experience seminar by my current employer discussing quality of service and care. The one thing mentioned in costumer satisfaction surveys was administering services in a TIMELY manner. Maybe I’m being too harsh but this whole treatment doesn’t seem to be done in any timely manner
I’m still interested in the position because the lab itself and the staff were fine, but this HR process is frustrating to say the least. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be if I didn’t currently have a job that for all intent and purposes is an okay job. I’m not in desperate need. At the very least it makes me definitely more willing to play hardball with my increased salary requirement. If I don’t get the pay I asked for I’m gonna decline any offer of employment.
Culture of Truth
Just heard David Brooks on NPR. He says Christie will skate because we’ve always known he’s a bully and crook and people want to send a bully and criminal to Washington.
I’ve heard this all my life. We don’t expect ethics from Republicans because they are “tough” and “get things done” (like daddy!) But we expect more from Democrats because they’re supposed to be good. Brooks said this too. Of course the host agreed and EJ Dionne pushed back a little but has little time.
But maybe his Achilles heel will be Christie’s mis-management. He’s a bully, and incompetent! Sigh.
Gex
@Violet: Policy wise they are nearly identical. “Moderate” in the GOP means you can stick to the sound bites and avoid sounding like a rabid zealot.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
That whole NYT article was full of win.
Reposting from an earlier thread:
beltane
@Culture of Truth: David Brooks deserves to be trapped in an elevator with Chris Christie for several days.
kc
@lamh36:
Drinks on you!
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Um, overCHARGED.
Jesus fuck.
Violet
@lamh36: Well, best of luck with it. I have to say, when you said the hiring manager told you the salary part was all up to the HR department that sent a red flag to me. I know there will be a range they have to stay in, but the hiring manager is the one who needs someone and if they want you, they’ll tell HR to do what it takes to get you. Definitely play hardball to get what you want.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
Wonder if it’s a decent company that found the mistake and repaid it or maybe they got audited and someone discovered their “mistake”?
Worked out good for you in either case.
James E. Powell
@mclaren:
a choice between reaffirming the well-intentioned but deeply corrupt and corporate-owned Clinton family, or moving to a genuinely progressive candidate like Elizabeth Warren.
Are those the only two choices? What about the old school progressive but social issue suspicious Brian Schweitzer? The aging but still has all his marbles Jerry Brown? The actually trying to do something in the senate Kirsten Gillibrand? The liberal who wins in the Midwest Sherrod Brown? Or that guy from Maryland who doesn’t have a phrase in front of his name yet?
gogol's wife
@dmsilev:
I loved that one!
BBA
The Port Authority is supposed to be an independent, autonomous bi-state agency. It’s designed to be insulated from political pressures. Historically this has just meant they’re unaccountable when it comes to things like raising tolls and transit fares without warning or wasting billions of dollars on the World Trade Center construction.
But if they’re accountable enough that Trenton can have them close a bridge lane behind Albany’s back, then I really don’t know how they can get away with the other shit…well aside from Albany and Trenton also being unaccountable to anyone.
Violet
@Gex: Yeah, a Republican is a Republican, although you have Republicans who do things like refuse the Medicaid money and those who don’t. So there are some differences. It’s those small differences that make them “moderate”, I guess.
scav
@Ash Can: The SC thing might explain the timing of pulling the trigger, but there necessarily was planning ahead of time to get this prepped to be set off with an e-mail. Then didn’t it take weeks afterwards to become a real thing and didn’t we just find evidence they were explicitly naming the local mayor as the source of the problem to some included the FD? Seems to be a mixed beast — they were pretty much indifferent as to whose Millie got gored, but just sat back and enjoyed the generalized pain and mayhem in their guise of Wanton Boys.
lamh36
Ya know, I really do hate dumb blond jokes and stereotypes, but I admit, I thought of a few when I read this story, but then I forgot ’em all and just decided to say “F&*( Mika and Joe “Dead Intern” Scarborough”. I hope they both go out an play in heavy traffic.
Mika Brzezinski Believes Friend Chris Christie Handled His Crisis Much Better Than Obama (VIDEO)
lamh36
@Ruckus: Probably an audit process. The letter with the check said after a “recent file review” they found the overcharges. It’s been over a year since I paid the final payment (I think it was Oct 2012?) So they did take a bit of time to find the error
lamh36
@efgoldman: Oh I plan to. Gonna hightail it to the bank tomorrow morning
Arclite
@beltane:
You know that can’t be true. WSJ editors would never stoop to living in Jersey.
mclaren
@tybee:
Yet.
Howard Beale IV
I hope Wildstein turns states’ evidence and gives up Christie.
kc
@Culture of Truth:
CoT, there are a few documents buried in today’s released emails that apparently constitute the results of the “traffic study.” It’s pretty lame.
To quote the NYT:
Link to NYT story: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/nyregion/hundreds-of-pages-on-bridge-scandal-released.html?hp&_r=0
Arclite
@kc:
That was my thought. He actually had the best chance, b/c Repubs actually choose the least batshit candidate to run: Romney, for all his faults certainly looked the most competent and grounded (relatively speaking). And McCain was the most moderate of his bunch of crazies as well.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
I’d say it’s a crap shoot as to getting any info other than a hiring proposal. Some HR people just don’t bother with the niceties. That’s been my experience anyway.
beltane
@Arclite: Maybe they were on their way to a golf course.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Heh. I always revert to Canadian/Brit usage, partly because I attended school in Canada during a particularly receptive time of learning that spelling, and partly because I have just retired from 25 years of working for the Government of Canada. Old habits die hard.
Bill E Pilgrim
@dmsilev:
I think that’s the state motto.
MikeJ
@efgoldman:
And they picked Romney last time. Your point is?
Mike in NC
@Culture of Truth: So Bobo thinks Christie will make the trains run on time, like Mussolini? Unless he decides that railroad studies need to be done.
Ash Can
@mclaren: I happen to believe that Elizabeth Warren is one of the most honest people on the federal level of government today. Why do you think she’s a liar?
Bill E Pilgrim
@Culture of Truth: Brooks was probably just high.
Arclite
@BGinCHI:
Nah, Rove knew he could get away with ANYTHING in TX. And when you screw the minority Dems down their it’s mostly browns and blahs anyway, so it’s easy to sweep stuff under the rug.
Christy is in a Dem state, with a Dem legislature. He brought a knife to a gunfight and got shot.
Culture of Truth
But can you really separate the crime from the cover up? Wasn’t Nixon’s real mistake not burning the tapes?
In any case, is it at least in part the crime, from both an ethical and pragmatic perspective. But if CC has lost the beltwat media, he better prepare for a bumpy ride.
Origuy
I’ve got to get serious about those popcorn futures: He’s BAAAACK!
mclaren
@James E. Powell:
Yes, you’re right that we have more choices. I’m just trying to highlight the fact that the major public policy moves over the next 6 to 8 years won’t come from Republicans like Chris Christie. Christie essentially took his lead from Obama’s policies.
The Republican party is so degenerate and so morally and intellectual bankrupt that all the serious public policy proposals are coming from Democrats. That makes it especially important that we elect the right Democrats. The Clintons look increasingly like transitional figures between the dementia of the Reagan years, when the Republican party was going strong, and the current era of collapse and Republican dysfunction, which clearly requires an entirely new progressive strategy other than balancing the budget (what the fuck for when the Republicans will just piss it all away?) and triangulation (code words for Reactionary Lite, by which the entire electorate is now repulsed).
Jerry Brown is probably too old, at 75 now and 78 by the time we get to national elections in 2016 (he was born 16 August 1938). Joe Biden is also probably too old. Both Brown and Biden also have such long records that they represent a target-rich environment for oppo research in today’s presidential politics.
Brian Schweitzer doesn’t have a lot of name recognition yet. Sherrod Brown and Kirsten Gillibrand and TX state representative Wendy Davis are real possibilities. I’d also throw in congressman Alan Grayson and former senator Russ Feingold as vice presidential possibilities. Because they’re both Jewish, they can’t run for president in this racist religiously fanatical Christian country, but they’d make excellent progressive running mates.
Culture of Truth
@Mike in NC: Or the trains are all under water because a hurricane was coming and he was too busy yelling at people to notice.
Suffern ACE
Has anyone found a site that discusses what laws were broken by closing the lanes? Yeah, the grandma died and that is sad, but is it against the law to close the bridge toll booths, study or no study?
Culture of Truth
@Bill E Pilgrim: See, SuperBowl 2014
Culture of Truth
@kc: dammit, I was attacked here for saying there was no traffic study. Such a shame.
beltane
@Origuy: Hmmm…Trump or Astorino. Trump’s hair would come in handy when Cuomo ends up mopping the floor with him.
mclaren
@Ash Can:
She’s not lying when she says she’s not running for president. She’s just telling us she’s not running for president today.
It’s a long tradition in America for potential presidential candidates to deny their interest in running.
Here’s a YouTube clip of a CNN interview in 2004 in which Barack Obama discounts any possibility that he’ll run for president, saying he’s “not qualified.”
This is standard stuff. Nobody is actually running for president…until they, you know, run.
dmsilev
@SiubhanDuinne: My favorite part was this:
“Let me send you an email telling you not to use email”.
lamh36
Golden Globes this weekend. My money’s on 12 Years A Slave for a win in all categories.
Can’t wait for the Oscars noms. I’m as cynical as most people are when it comes to movies about POC, so I am fully expecting the possibility that 12 Years is just “too much” of a brow beater for Academy voters (read that somewhere) or “torture porn” (as one idiot called it) and therefore like films before it, being upset by another film, such as American Hustle, which of late I’ve been hearing alot of buzz about or Gravity which has the heft of being a good film and having big stars like Bullock and Clooney.
At the very least, I hope to see Oscar noms for Adapted Screenplay, Director, Motion Picture, Best Actor (Chiwetol Eljofor) and Best Supporting Actor (Lupito Nyongo, who is lovely, BTW).
Corner Stone
@Violet: I, personally, never thought Christie was going anywhere in the R primaries.
BUT, I agree with you that this is awesomely popcorn inducing. Because now he not only can not be the R nominee, but this opens the floor to the nuttier-than-Bachmann wing of the R party. They will absolutely think this is an open contest and hate, hate, hate on any establishment R candidate.
And the beauty of that is, that every candidate who is not *them* is in fact, the “establishment” candidate.
It’s gonna be a bloodbath to get through the primaries. There will be no Romney-esque person who everyone hated but had to get behind anyway.
This will be the primary fight where we see Santorum and Cruz both get accused of being RINO’s.
gwangung
@mclaren:
Nah. Just speaking in simple words you can comprehend.
Now fuck off.
Arclite
@ McLaren.
I agree that Warren is an ideal candidate. But Clinton is the one who will bring in voters. She’s the known quantity, and the Clintons have built up a huge name brand. She had the highest approval ratings of any of Obama’s staff. For better or worse, if she runs, she wins the nomination. Is she perfect? Far from it. Is she better than whatever the Repubs are offering? Yup.
Ash Can
@efgoldman: MikeJ has a point — the GOP Machine can package and market pretty much anyone they want. However, what I wonder — and what I’m sure you and a lot of other people wonder as well — is which candidate would be able to survive a primary involving a gantlet of voters who should all be in straightjackets, and still retain any “moderate” cred. Romney managed it last time by pretty much being both a blank slate (and saying contradictory things to different audiences and never being called on it) and a familiar personage. Huntsman wasn’t well-known enough for his name-recognition to offset any “non-conservative” (i.e. sane) blemishes on his record. Perhaps Pawlenty could be resurrected and made into another Romney since he has name recognition from the last time, but not a whole lot of notoriety regarding his record. Or maybe Rand Paul will blast his clown car through the primaries and the GOP kingmakers will be stuck with him. Should be interesting.
Anne Laurie
@Bill E Pilgrim: Honest truth? The NY state motto is “Excelsior”. Which, as the born-and-bred-in-NYC nun who had us third-graders memorize that fact told us, is what you call the wood shavings that were then still in use as packing material for fragile products. Because, she added, the state founders didn’t know the Latin translation for “bullshit”, which was & remains the state legislator’s main product…
lamh36
@Ruckus: Yeah, I’m expecting that now. Like I said, I think I’m just spoiled by the experience I’ve had in the past vis a vis HR applications and proposals.
This place is the slowest of the bunch. In fact, my current job, part of the interview process included going back to the HR Department and having the recruiter sit me down and explain the whole reasoning behind the offer of employment and the pay rate they were offering. I knew what they were offering me before I was even offered the job. I received a call from the HR Recruiter, not the lab manager, that they wanted to offer the job to me.
So like I said, I think I’ve been spoiled. But there is another position at another hospital in NOLA, that is IN my field, which as I’ve said doesn’t happen often, that I am thinking about applying for this weekend.
mclaren
@Arclite:
Don’t forget that the Clintons also have an awesome amount of money + connections. Slick Willy and HIllary have been around Washington for so long that they both know all the movers and shakers. When it comes to cornering endorsement from prominent Demos, Hillary is miles ahead.
But of course anything can happen between now and 2016. Two years is a lifetime in presidential politics. That’s why I hold out hope for a more progressive candidate than Hillary.
mclaren
@gwangung:
David Simon’s words apply equally well to you with a few slight changes:
Thor Heyerdahl
@Culture of Truth: Nice typo
Ernest Pikeman
@mclaren:
That’s a winning ticket! A state rep from Texas with Alan Grayson’s Guts as VP. Dude, you’ve got to hook us up with your dealer, that’s some wacky shit.
Anne Laurie
@Corner Stone:
From your keyboard to the FSM’s orrichetti!
Sarah Palin’s already on the infotainment shows, explaining that this is what those east-coast eee-leetists get for electing a ‘Wall Street guy’ instead of a true conservative. In my happy dream, this will offend Christie enough that he shivs her in return…
gbear
@Ash Can: Tim Pawlenty has his own ‘bridge’ problem. He vetoed additional infrastructure spending after I-35W collapsed. He’s too boring to get any traction anyway.
JPL
@Suffern ACE: I haven’t seen a discussion on this yet but I would assume that commerce laws and homeland security laws could have been violated. imo
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Yeah, that’s good, but c’mon, DARCY LICORISH.
tybee
@mclaren:
and hillary isn’t running, either.
Anne Laurie
@Ash Can:
Romney managed it, in 2102, by having enough of his own money that he could lie low while all the Klown Kar candidates tore each other up. Even if the Wall Street wing of the GOP finds another billionaire who wants to add ‘Oval Office’ to his resume, the gambit probably can’t work twice, because the 2016 Klown Krop will be alert and eager to quash any Walton heir or JPMorgan retiree as a RINO squish.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: I have no illusion that they can deliver anything. That’s the beauty of it.
Right now, in our fevered fantasies, we have Christie and Jeb Bush. No other potential candidate I am currently aware of can I see ever *ever* getting the R nomination.
It won’t be Cruz, Santorum, Perry, Rubio or Paul. I have a bridge with fully functioning lanes to sell you if you believe that.
So…take out Christie and now everyone has to go after Jeb Bush when he pokes his fucking little patrician nose out of the swampy water.
And they will chew him up.
It’s gonna be awesome.
eric
@tybee: she wont run because Ombambi is going to declare martial law and install himself to a third term just in time to execute new UN global warming protocols.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: You can’t even say my name anymore, can you?
*sobs quietly*
hooo…hooo.hoo…sniffle…hooo hooooo
lamh36
scav
I’m glad someone at the Guard also burst into a chortle at the sigline in Exhibit A
Corner Stone
I know absolutely nothing about Patrick Foye, but if he is anything like he comes across in this scandal he is an absolute bad ass.
Suffern ACE
@JPL: I just think that is rather important. Right now, this is being played as “Christie and company are mean” but honestly there still isn’t much here. Are people in Indiana or Alabama really going to care that Christie created a four day traffic jam on purpose? However a lawyer who ordered or helped underlings to break laws is a bigger problem. One that will actually tie him up in New Jersey.
lamh36
Extra Bonus Quote of the Day
MikeJ
@scav: You have an extraneous unicode char in your url.
Corner Stone
No shit. If it is, in fact, a legit study then why the hell wouldn’t you tell your boss that a real study was causing all kinds of fucked up bullshit that everyone hated?
Corner Stone
@MikeJ:
You were always really bad at insulting the other kids on the playground, weren’t you?
WereBear
@Violet: Oh, Violet, that sounds so good!
amk
@Suffern ACE: people in Indiana or Alabma don’t give a fiddlesticks about the fat fucker any way.
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, I can. I choose not to.
Also, LOLWUT?
JPL
@Suffern ACE: I assume that will be the next shoe to drop. Hopefully it will be commerce because homeland security could be seen as more political. Surely one of the lawyers who comment here will write something soon.
@lamh36: I have never sat in a traffic jam and said who did this. It wouldn’t have occurred to me before this fiasco. It was an interesting comment from Paul.
scav
@MikeJ: Blame it on the cut & paste, I wasn’t expecting it to become a link. Sorry.
ETA. I assume I played on different playgrounds than CS or that I’m unusually dense with regard to self-esteem unicode issues.
beltane
@Corner Stone: Here’s a story about him from 2011 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/spitzer-economic-whiz-pat-foye-gov-cuomo-pick-run-port-authority-article-1.965202 He doesn’t look like a man who is easily intimidated. Christie may be a loudmouth but he happens to be just one loudmouth among many.
IowaOldLady
@Suffern ACE: I don’t know about Indiana or Alabama, but at Panera today, I heard two guys talking about CC, and you almost never hear anyone talking politics in public. We’re too polite. I couldn’t hear much but one guy did say, “It doesn’t do to stay mad at CC.” I’m not sure what that means.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: That was me crying and sniffling from the pain. I’m a very sensitive man.
beltane
@JPL: Rand Paul most likely thinks that traffic jams are caused by the illuminati. Of course he would sit in traffic trying to unravel the conspiracy that lies at the heart of it all.
Culture of Truth
@efgoldman: I agree, but I think many Nixon partisans believe that he was a victim of a partisan witch hunt and believe (correctly, probably) that if he burned the tapes he would escaped resignation.
scav
@beltane: Would that he would sit in unjammed traffic trying to figure it all out.
Traffic Jams are sometimes just the Illuminati, waving at us backwards.
mdblanche
Governor Harkonnen is now the biggest Nazi gasbag to crash and burn in New Jersey since 1937.
Stick a gom jabbar in Christie, he’s done.
Baud
@lamh36:
Um…unless you’re in New Jersey, you did this, Rand. If you’re in traffic, you are traffic.
Baud
Duplicate.
Corner Stone
@lamh36: Actually, when I hear Rand Paul’s answer there, I hear him say, “who did this to me“.
Which I think gives it a better insight.
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone:
You’re ripping my heart out here.
jl
Put all together, the circumstantial evidence is that Christie ordered the traffic jam for payback to somebody or something. Or, fostered an atmosphere that gave three people on his staff or very closely associated with him, and two of his appointees, the impression that it was an appropriate thing to do, and Christie himself knew about it shortly afterward.
Or, Christie should have strongly suspected it, unless he is mentally very slow.
Against common sense, we have Christie’s absolute denial, but several pundits have said that much of credibility of that denial comes from the fact that Christie left himself no out or wriggle room if information comes out that he did order it, or learned about it shortly after it started, or should have suspected it and investigated it but accidentally didn’t quite catch on to it on purpose and therefore did not investigate. But now we are in the infinite regress logic of bluffing.
Christie is surely smart enough to notice the GWB statement that he left as little written record and made as few written communications as possible so people would not ‘read his stuff’. So maybe Christie figures that will be his impregnable defensive line, especially if any orders where disguised as ‘jokes’ or ‘loose figurative talk’.
I don’t know whether Maddow’s theory is correct, that the target was a Democratic legislative leader over a protracted fight over the NJ Supreme Court, but why Ft. Lee or its mayor would be a target remains a mystery.
And what is the deal with Port Authority cops telling people that the Ft Lee mayor decided to close the lanes? If any cop of any kind said something like that in a similar situation in CA, I wouldn’t say anything to the cop, but I would think he was joking, or maybe a little tipsy.
I guess the world of NJ politics is too foreign for me to figure much out on my own.
jl
A more appropriate question would be
” If He Didn’t Order it, How Could Christie Not Figure it Out Within a Day, Unless He is A Idiot?”
Chris
@Gex:
I think “moderate” in the GOP is about your background rather than your politics. “Moderate” is what the establishment, the blue bloods, the Wall Street and Washington based crew call themselves (it’s another word for Very Serious Person.) “True conservatives” is how heartlanders in the South and West see themselves (pure and untainted by VSP elitism). Been that way since Rockefeller v. Goldwater at least.
Nowadays there’s hardly any difference between them in terms of policy. But there’s still the tribal chauvinism on both sides, with the “moderates” seeing the heartlanders as backwards-ass country hicks with the wrong priorities, and the “true conservatives” seeing the East Coasters as degenerate elitists that they suspect of plotting with liberals behind their backs.
Corner Stone
@jl: Yeah. Christie – Liar or Buffoon?
Your choice Governor.
Villago Delenda Est
@jl:
Someone told them to give that answer. They didn’t come up with it on their own. They were briefed on the closure action and were told who was responsible for it.
This entire thing was done with malice aforethought.
Chris
@Ash Can:
And by having the money and establishment backing that enabled him to outlast his Monster Of The Week competition.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone:
Liar buffoon or incompetent buffoon?
Sort of like the situation Ronaldus Magnus faced with Iran-Contra.
pluky
@Culture of Truth: But since when has David “BoBo” Brooks been right about anything?
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est: That’s kind of disappointing, considering that he’s now chiseled into Mt. Rushmore.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud:
Dumbfuck is too stupid to figure that out. HE is never the problem…someone else is. Always.
Corner Stone
I don’t think TRMS did any pre-interview with this Bergen Record journalist.
He is awful.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone:
They fucked up on that. He should have been chiseled on to Stone Mountain, GA, with his fellow reactionaries.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
I said this morning that the Iran-Contra analogy hasn’t been made enough.
Yatsuno
@Villago Delenda Est: Well he copied Ronnie’s defence down to the last vowel. If any hint of his awareness of the happenings here comes to light he’s slightly singed melba.
Helen
I live a block and a half from Burns Street and Ascan Ave in NYC. How is this relevant to this discussion? Dunno – but which politicians should resign for dumb-ass political/personal decisions? Prolly those who affect their constituents Unlike my neighbor at Burns St and Ascan Ave who was forced to resign. 10 points to anyone who can name my “neighbor”
Also? Helen +6
Baud
@Yatsuno:
Baud
@efgoldman:
The young uns don’t, but the media certainly does. They certainly remember what every Democrat was doing in the 60s and 70s.
jl
@Villago Delenda Est:
I agree, I was implying that in a snarky way. But also, it’s such a weird and goofy HS prank thing to do. And why would the cops follow an order like that?
Lots of corrupt and weird stuff happens in CA politics. But I cannot imagine a morning briefing that goes like “Hey youse guys, Zen-Guv Brown wants da Bay Bridge Maze shuddown tight like a can a bad farts, so youse geddonit, OK?” “Fuck all ‘how come?’, that whats he wanna do, OK?” I just can’t imagine that happening here.
It’s like something out of a bad movie script.
the Conster
@Culture of Truth:
Dems should cut an ad for the Superbowl, asking “who do you trust to get you in and out of here safely?”
Culture of Truth
This is much worse than Iran-Contra.
<
This is a key point. Cops can be subpoened, and prosecuors can work from outside in. Who told them to say this?
jl
@jl:
Sorry I meant to type
“Hey youse guys, da mayor wants da Bay Bridge Maze shuddown tight”
I guess a Freudian slip on my part.
GregB
@Corner Stone:
My brother said he should stick to writing.
Pretty incoherent.
@efgoldman:
I believe the common refrain was ‘every politician does it, Nixon got caught’.
Chris
@Baud:
This is key. Even if you, in good faith, had no idea of all the dirty deals, it’s still your administration. If you’re unable or unwilling to keep tabs on what your deputies are doing and rein them in when it’s criminal, that’s just as much reason why you need to go as if you’d been ordering the criminal activity yourself.
(Not that I believe for a second that Christie had no knowledge of this, but it’s a moot point even if he is).
@Baud:
And even quite a few things they weren’t doing.
Cervantes
@Culture of Truth:
From whom?
Yatsuno
@Baud: Wow. The similarities to what Christie said today are jarring. I wonder if the immunity is about to be handed out like candy like it was back then.
jl
@Cervantes: There was no traffic study, so no copy exists. I think that is the correct answer. That is one of the few aspects of this story that makes any sense.
Now I see on TPM, that besides Port Authority cops saying weird garbage about the shut down of the lanes was because the mayor said so, apparently there is something odd about the timing of the order to close the lanes and chief cop’s promotion.
My dear BJ dudes and dudettes, this scandal is going to have plenty of strong legs sheerly out of the entertainment, WTF!? and hoodunnit? angles. By this point, it’s like watching a good TV who-done-it, mystery, but broadcast in five minute segments, separated by a day or two of commercials.
Culture of Truth
@Cervantes: From who ever ordered it.
You probably remember, when you went after me, when I said there was no traffic study, and this was abuse of power, and you implied I said Bob Somerby beats his wife.
I was hoping perhaps this long lost traffic study had finally turned up. Any luck yet?
Helen
@jl: Yes and go back to my comment at #150.
My stupid friends do not know anything about politics. Only 30% of Americans can name 1 Supreme Court Justice.
90% of them name????? 10 more points!
jl
And it will be fun (at least in terms of Christie’s political hopes and the fate of the 2016 elections), because Christie will be hanging out there looking like some kind of gigantic ass in front of the whole country. We do not really know for sure precisely what kind of gigantic ass he is at this point, but it is clear to all that Christie is some kind of gigantic ass. Which I for one, think is a very good thing.
Bobby Thomson
@Culture of Truth: TPM has today’s document dump, which includes at least one power point presentation and various emails. As near as I can tell, the idea (at least ostensibly) was to shut off access from Fort Lee and see if it made traffic faster for everyone else. Until the people who really know talk, it’s tough to say whether this was a stupid but legitimate idea and inconveniencing Fort Lee was icing on the cake, or whether it was all just a cover story.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Helen: Spitzer?
jl
@Helen: I saw your comment, but it didn’t come to my mind who you were talking about.
Well I can name the Chief Justice. Not sure who you are talking about. But since the street names you mentioned sound kind of New York New Yorky, any hot doggers in your neighborhood?
If so, that guy should have been a very serious object lesson to politicians of all parties and political stripes. And wrt to this scandal, it should be an object lesson to us lesser persons that there are people with those kind of brass balls and that kind of judgment walking around among us. And exactly how closely has Christie followed that model, and in what ways? The answers will be interesting.
danielx
@beltane:
Actually, I’m thinking David Brooks should have to spend the rest of his life at an ABBA concert.
Am I really that cruel?
jl
@jl: Yeah, Spitzer fits too. But if Christie is trying to pull off something as brazen as the hot dog guy tried to, Weiner is a better example.
Culture of Truth
@Bobby Thomson: Do you know if there a copy of the study online anywhere? It’s been since September, and is a national story, after all.
mclaren
@danielx:
Better yet, a Captain and Tenille concert.
Helen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: NOPE
beltane
@Culture of Truth: There’s this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/10/1268754/-UPDATE-X2-There-WAS-a-traffic-study-but-Wildstein-s-test-actually-screwed-it-up
Helen
@jl: BINGO. WEINER!!
beltane
@danielx: David Brooks might be the type to enjoy the Hayekian wholesomeness of an eternal ABBA concert, especially if he were stoned.
mclaren
Over at Crooks and Liars, I saw the headline “As U.S. Attorney Examines GWB Scandal, Lawyers And Pols Weigh In On Possible Outcomes” my heart leapt. Wow, I thought, a federal prosecutor is finally looking into the 8-year-long scandal of the George W. Bush administration! Maybe they’ll even issue some indictments.
No such luck.
GWB refers to the George Washington Bridge.
That’s America, right there. Close a fuckin’ bridge for a few weeks and everybody comes unglued. Invade the wrong country in an endless unwinnable war and loot the coffers by tossing military contracts to your corrupt cronies while you set up legal witch-hunts of your political opponents and tear up the constitution and use it to wipe your ass?
Oh, that’s no problem. Hey…the constitution isn’t a bridge. Who cares if you shut the fuckin’ constitution down?
Helen
@jl: I did not say Chief Justice. I said Supreme Court Justice. They all say…Thomas, of course. All we need is SEX to remember.
Nobody gets the 10 points. Sorry…..
Hill Dweller
@Bobby Thomson:
Likely a cover story, because they could do the study using computer modeling.
beltane
@Hill Dweller: It appears that there were cameras installed to measure the normal flow of traffic but that the lane closures ordered by Wildstein had nothing to do with this. If this were a legit study, the NY Port Authority contingent would have been aware of it and they were not. The fact that Christie’s lackeys repeatedly put quotation marks around the word “test” (because they are so cute and witty) is also damning.
jharp
@amk:
I live in Indiana and I care.
I have no interest in Christie becoming Pres.
Cheers.
jl
@Helen: Ohhhh nnoooo! I want some points.
And my favorite Justice, who I woudda named, is Suuuuupppeerr Sonnnnyaaaa Sotomayor!!!!!!!!
She can climb down into the constitutional interpretation octagon and wipe the mat with Fat Tony any day, IMHO.
Edit: who I also think is kind of cute. She is my constitutional law crush, I guess.
Culture of Truth
@beltane: Note the warning of “sideswipe crashes.”
Culture of Truth
Since it’s been since Sept. I was hope for actual traffic study itself.
….any day now…
Little Boots
he knew it all. we know it. he knows it. the port authority knows it.
Cervantes
@Culture of Truth:
You’ll have to remind me where this conversation took place because, contrary to your assessment, I do not, in fact, remember. Sorry.
As for the alleged study, there are a couple of hints floating about (including in this thread), plus Rachel Maddow talked about it briefly on December 13 — but beyond that I have no idea. Sorry again.
Helen
@jl: Yup. I watched her confirmation hearings (actually I watch all the confirmation hearings; my favorite was Souter’s where those dumb-asses fell over their lame-ass selves NOT to call him GAY). But yeah – if anyone in America is against affirmation action -watch Sonya’s hearings.
And just cuz I like you jl, you get 10 Helen points. You are welcome!
Corner Stone
Naked Jessica Biel is naked.
Oh, sorry. What?
mclaren
@Villago Delenda Est:
Big difference. Ronnie “the senile sociopath” Reagan was a charming charismatic genial thoroughly lovable sociopath. Whereas Chris Christie is just a thuggish boorish crude in-your-face sociopath.
That’s why Reagan was so dangerous. He had all the viciousness and indifference to consequences and dishonesty of Christ Christie, but Reagan did such a superb job of masking it that even liberals adored him.
I remember students in college who flocked to listen to Reagan’s speeches even though his policies were slashing their Pell grants. “But that asshole is wrecking your life!” I used to object. “Yeah, man, but Reagan is just so cool!” they replied.
Little Boots
deep, deep waters here.
jl
@Helen: Thanks. I was kind of angling for you to email me a beer, but I’ll take the ten points gladly.
Little Boots
bob somerby beats his wife?
what the hell has happened to these internets?
beltane
@Culture of Truth: It’s also weird that Christie claimed he was putting the cones out himself. Governors usually are seen at ribbon cutting ceremonies opening bridges to traffic, not closing lanes down for “traffic studies”. People are scratching their heads over the lack of a good motive, but if you see these people as the grown-up College Republicans they are, their behavior has a perverse logic to it.
Keith P
@mclaren: I’d like to see him at a Gwar concert.
Corner Stone
@jl: Wake me up when those 3D printers can make an Imperial Stout.
GregB
@Helen:
Souter was and has always been a confirmed bachelor. Maybe you are thinking of the weepy Mrs. Alito?
Little Boots
@Corner Stone:
first, explain christie.
seriously, what the hell?
Cervantes
@mclaren:
The lanes were closed for a few days, not weeks, but other than that it’s not a bad point.
Cervantes
@Little Boots: Don’t believe everything you read!
Omnes Omnibus
@mclaren: Liberals did not adore him. Sorry, pull the other one, it’s got bells on.
Little Boots
@Cervantes:
which parts? the closing happened. the staff was involved. there are, admittedly, wild rumors, but what do you think happened?
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: Man, you’re like an intertrons vigilante and shit. First you hunted down Culture of Truth and now you’ve brutally silenced mclaren.
I remember that time you came after me on the windy plateau. Tracked me for days because I’d used an outdated spelling of a French word for impromptu mimicry.
I ran and ran. All across these series of tube but you were relentless.
How you feelin’ now, Cervantes? Now that we both know my choice of spelling was correct. How you feelin’ now?
patroclus
I don’t believe Christie – I think he knew about it beforehand or shortly threreafter. He seems to be a ratfucker. Very Nixonian.
With Nixon, it was petty retribution all the time. Watergate was truly the tip of the iceberg; there was the Segretti stuff, the anti-Muskie stuff, the Kennedy stuff, the Larry O’Brien material, the enemies list, the IRS targeting, the Ellsberg break-in, the Huston Plan, Charles Colson and Gordon Liddy, two of the great ratfuckers of all time, Hoover, Mark Felt and virtually anything you name, Nixon targeted it for retribution.
Maddow’s reporting shows that Christie is Nixon revisited. I don’t want that.
Helen
@GregB: OH no. I watched Alito’s hearings too. Trust me, they kept saying to Souter “AH MAH GAH, imagine that you like books…and hiking. Of course YOU ARE NOT GAY.”
Don’t forget Souter was presented as a Conservative, but was really a liberal (in terms of 1990ish definitions of those words). The Senator(s) who nominated him were faking it for GHW Bush. Gotta go look up which Senators said that but they have totally admitted it now.
jl
@Cervantes:
We go to political war with the scandals we have, not the scandals we wish we had. Cripes, how old is mclaren, and how long has s/he followed political scandals?
It’s actually a good thing no one (as far as we know so far) was seriously hurt as a direct consequence of the lane closures. Otherwise speculation about Christie’s role would ruin the fun, since it would implicate him in manslaughter and people would have to be all careful about what they said front of the pundits.
So far, this is a fun scandal that will prove at the very least humiliating and damaging for Christie. So, why complain?
When some of you folks can find a way to get the general population riled up about an illegal, deadly, counterproductive war or civil rights, let us all know. Seriously, let us know how to pull it off, it would be useful information.
Little Boots
@patroclus:
he is a thin skinned bitch. that is obvious.
Cervantes
@Corner Stone: Humble, that’s how.
Who the hell is Jessica Biel?
Cervantes
@mclaren: Please tell me you did not just extrapolate from “students in college” to “liberals,” because that would break my heart.
Helen
@jl: Well, did I say Helen +6? I am now Helen +10. Sorry darling. I drank your beer.
Little Boots
@Cervantes:
okay, nobody buys this.
okay?
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: Nobody is more humble than me, you MFer! NOBODY!
Culture of Truth
@e antes: True, except this does involve use of state power to exact revenge on children for their parents voting against the state executive, not exactly a minor issue, and it seem like, far from everyone coming unglued, a number of people in politics and the media are actively covering for Chris Christie, trying to pretend this didn’t happen at at all; or if it did, it’s no big deal; or if it did and it’s abuse of power, everyone does it.
jl
@Helen: Your internet persona does not suggest beer, but that is OK. Please don’t go Cole and have a mishap with the mouse or get tangled in the keyboard.
Cervantes
@Little Boots: Damned if I know. Just don’t ask me to jump to conclusions.
Little Boots
@jl:
he is kind of a lightweight.
kc
@beltane:
That’s good work by that blogger. That makes perfect sense. Wildstein just tacks the lane closures onto an already planned non-disruptive study.
Little Boots
@Cervantes: @Cervantes:
oh, these are the internets.
speculate.
it would be irresponsible not to.
mclaren
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hell, buddy, liberals were deep-throating fuckin’ Chris Christie only 6 months ago:
Source: “Major Democratic donors flock to Christie,” The Star-Ledger, 3 June 2013.
And now you’re trying to tell us the obviously foolish lie that massive numbers of Democrats never flocked to support Reagan? That huge numbers of liberals never cheered Reagan until their throats were hoarse?
Now we know you’re a paid astroturfer for the military-industrial-prison-surveillance-police-torture complex, buddy.
Source: “Reagan Democrats” entry in Wikipedia.
The problem with paid astroturfers like you, omnes omnibus, is that you keep going too far. You get cocky after denying fact after fact after fact and nobody calls you on it…so you step right up and start blatantly denying whole huge chunks of documented recent history.
Bad idea, buckaroo.
Little Boots
@mclaren:
there are actually appealing things about Christie. there are.
the bluntness was appealing.
but now he has been revealed as a douche.
he will not be president, ever.
Cervantes
@jl:
A bit of a cop-out. It is possible to set the agenda. Difficult, but possible — especially if you can wield, say, 200-300 minutes per week on prime-time MSNBC. (You may have heard recently that Bob Somerby tries to make this point; in vain.)
Is someone here complaining about the damage Christie is sustaining?
Oh, we did find a way. It’s your turn now.
mclaren
@patroclus:
All Republicans today are Nixonian ratfuckers.
That’s the legacy of America’s refusal to try and convict that scumsucking thug and sentence him to life in prison without parole for his high crimes and misdemeanors.
Omnes Omnibus
@mclaren: The Venn diagram of liberals and Democrats is not a perfect overlap. Yes, some Democrats supported (or at least voted for) Reagan. How do you get from that to liberals adored Reagan? Some of us were alive and reasonably sober during the relevant time period.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots:
No. There aren’t.
Little Boots
@Cervantes:
oh stop trolling.
be a human.
what do you think is going on here?
Helen
@jl: OMG. That is the most loudest bestest sentence in the whole history of internet questions. So, my internet persona makes you think I am a wine, champagne, vodka, whiskey, girl? What?
Please do not hold back. I am fascinated by your comment.
And mishaps – they only started when I got old. Well – oldish. As comparison – Cole is young. He can’t be my son – but he can be my MEGA younger brother.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
there are, buddy, but there are apparently all these other things.
scav
Targét has company. NYT: Neiman Marcus Says Hackers May Have Stolen Payment Card Data.
Omnes Omnibus
@Helen:
A little selective editing and look what we get.
Cervantes
@Helen:
Just what I was thinking.
mclaren
@Omnes Omnibus:
Because plenty of fucking liberals adored Reagan during the goddamn 1980s. I was there. I saw it. So did millions of other people. Full stop.
This discussion is over. Somebody hit the lights on the way out.
Kropadope
@mclaren: How many Democrats do you think that group of voters voted for after Reagan?
jl
@Helen: Some kind of sophisticated NY NY cocktail sequence that I would not understand, was my vague impression.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I guess I have always reacted to Christie differently than many did. The loud blustering was always off putting for me. The meanness was obvious. He is the stereotype of the Ugly American who always embarrassed me when I was in Europe. Never could see any positives about the guy.
kc
@mclaren:
Damn, OO gets paid to post here? And all this time I’ve been doing it for nothing?
Hey, OO, hook me up!
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
there is true ugliness. but that won’t kill him. I think it’s the pettiness.
max
And now you’re trying to tell us the obviously foolish lie that massive numbers of Democrats never flocked to support Reagan? That huge numbers of liberals never cheered Reagan until their throats were hoarse?
Huge numbers of Southern Democrats did support Reagan (the Congressional contingent were called ‘Boll Weevils’ – you could look it up on Wikipedia, even). Huge numbers of liberals? No. If anything liberals were taking a beating for being anti-Reagan, even though it so turned out they were correct on the merits.
Meantime, huge numbers of *Democrats* basically backed Bush’s foreign policy agenda even though it was wrong-headed in every way. And conservadems like Rahm like to cover their bases with their pals.
I’m not a conservative, never was. I wasn’t, however a hard leftie either. I was not (at the time!) pro-Reagan, and I was never pro-Republican. I can say nice things about Reagan about the fact that he went with Thatcher and made nice with Gorbachev (who I consider probably the most important actor of the late 20th century, and arguably the savior of the human race).
I don’t know what those other folks were thinking.
max
[‘Ask John Cole, maybe he can explain it to you.’]
gwangung
@mclaren: Aw, c’mon kid….none of of that impresses any of us who were around and sober. Pull the other one.
Also. Fuck off.
mclaren
@scav:
Pretty obviously the Target scam was the proof-of-concept for a new exploit by our charming friends in Bulgaria or Latvia or Buttfuckistan or whatever-the-hell central European former Soviet republic run by gangsters and riddled with impoverished former Soviet scientists and programmers who now have to write the code for these kinds of exploits to feed their children after the end of the Cold War.
The really impressive ones I’ve heard about are the remote exploits that access a car’s brakes and ignition and windows and all its other automatic systems while the car is travelling at speed over the car’s wifi. How long will it be before luxury sedans travelling on the freeway in HelL.A. start getting OnStar messages from another car tailing them, instructing the car’s driver to transfer a few thousand dollars into a wire account, or the car tailing ’em will remotely trigger their brakes and send the car into 20-vehicle collision fireball?
Cervantes
@mclaren:
True enough, but roughly 36 million people voted against him in 1980 and 1984. What were they, chopped liver?
Villago Delenda Est
@jl:
Because that’s what grunts do.
Waaaaay back in the 80’s, when I was a 1LT pulling staff duty, one of my responsibilities was to inspect the guard. I asked one of the soldiers if I gave him an order to shoot someone who was within the protected perimeter (we were responsible for guarding some warehouses near the battalion area) what would he do? His answer was very simple. “I’d shoot them, sir.” I was hoping to see if the soldier would question such an order and use some of his own judgement, but the grunts are, by necessity, I suppose, inculcated with fairly blind obedience to orders that are issued, even questionable ones like that.
If the cops were briefed to respond to queries from motorists stuck in traffic what the hold up was, they were told to say the Mayor of Ft Lee had ordered a traffic study. This is pure ratfucking, but someone had to give the order to brief the cops that way, knowing that the cops would repeat it pretty much verbatim.
Omnes Omnibus
@kc: According to mclaren, I am a PFC posting from some DoD warehouse. I will admit that I was briefly an PFC during Basic Training – before I went to OCS. That was about 27 years ago.
@mclaren: Not all nominal Democrats are liberals. Provide some valid evidence to support your statement or stand revealed a liar.
max
@Omnes Omnibus: The loud blustering was always off putting for me. The meanness was obvious. He is the stereotype of the Ugly American who always embarrassed me when I was in Europe. Never could see any positives about the guy.
Thanks, that was exactly my reaction. (‘You people think this worthless shithead is going to win? Good God, why?’)
max
[‘But then, lots of ’em thought invading Iraq was a fucking GREAT plan, so I guess you can fool some of the people all of the time.’]
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Stand revealed as a liar, Pfc Butterfield!
Helen
@jl: OH sweetie – I am in Queens, NY. a block an a half from Weiner!!!!!
I choose Queens. I can live in Manhattan – but those assholes drink martini’s.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I love that line.
kc
@mclaren:
Liberals suck!
Corner Stone
@gwangung:
Jesus Christ. When did you turn into me?
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
what exactly are the initials about?
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus:
Holy shit, that was you telling me you’d shot them?
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t you think you can co-opt me, nor my precious bodily fluids!
max
@Villago Delenda Est: I asked one of the soldiers if I gave him an order to shoot someone who was within the protected perimeter (we were responsible for guarding some warehouses near the battalion area) what would he do? His answer was very simple. “I’d shoot them, sir.” I was hoping to see if the soldier would question such an order and use some of his own judgement, but the grunts are, by necessity, I suppose, inculcated with fairly blind obedience to orders that are issued, even questionable ones like that.
How could it be any other way? You tell him there is enemy in the perimeter, you tell him to shoot them. He does it. That’s his job.
Now, you tell him explicitly to shoot up a school bus full of children, maybe he reacts differently.
max
[‘Depends.’]
patroclus
@mclaren: Most Republicans adore Nixonian tactics and the politics of personal retribution. Because he had embraced Obama during Sandy, I had thought Christie was different. I was wrong. He’s even more Nixonian than most.
Reagan was different. He thought simplistically and had oncoming Alzheimers through most of his Presidency, leaving him somewhat of a doofus who didn’t really know what was going on most of the time. Dangerous things certainly happened with Reagan, but like with Iran-Contra, he often seemed only to have a vague relationship with events. With Reagan, there was a rotating series of culprits; with Nixon, it was always him and his henchmen.
Christie is more like Nixon.
Little Boots
@Corner Stone:
everyone love omnes.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est: Big difference between telling his boss he’d do it, and actually freakin’ doing it.
Little Boots
honestly, as they should.
omnes is one of the best things about this site
I love omnes.
Little Boots
fine, supremes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFIyLRGBKvQ
Villago Delenda Est
@max:
It was the bluntness of his response that kinda knocked me backwards. He didn’t ask any questions about it, or ask for clarification, or a better description of the scenario.
My response would be “do we really need to shoot this guy? Might be better to not fire on him and miss and scare him off without knowing what he was doing there…”
But then again, guys with brass are supposed to be the brains.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: OCS = Officer Candidate School.
@max: He was in a peaceful area. Rules of engagement are different.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
see? helpful,
why people love omnes.
Little Boots
for omnes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6DN11Q4Kao
Little Boots
omnes? why are you withholding?
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Dude, you must chill.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
I am.
I’m trying.
scav
Are his gold plates talking to mclaren again? Has he explained to us fully what we were failing to observe as we apparently arrived at our current ages without traversing the actual past that mcl traversed, seeing and understanding all, perfectly, but apparently very very alone? I’m personally rather amused to discover my entire past is manufactured, like all those fake fossils jeebus hid on the top of mountains while riding his dinosaur.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: You mocked me once, never do it again! I died that day!
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Mike in NC
@mclaren: Liberals in the 80s didn’t adore Reagan. Was there and such a claim is bullshit.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@mclaren:
Wait, you’re astonished that the college students who voted for Reagan were fans of Reagan? (If you’re confused by all of the graphs, the relevant one is “Presidential Legacies: How Those Who Came of Age Under Different Presidents Have Voted.”)
Generation X is a conservative generation, more conservative than the generations that came directly before and after it. Sorry, but it is. Claiming that you must have been talking to liberals because everyone knows all college students are liberals is letting your Republican slip show again.
Corner Stone
@scav: Man, you’re like on a multi-day high and shit. Can you share with us what, exactly, you’re ingesting?
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): What do you think those charts tell us?
I mean, I know you’re crazy as a shithouse rat, but what are the pretty pictures saying in your fucked up brainpan?
scav
@Corner Stone: Suddenly, It’s been a long life.
Helen
@Mike in NC: Ding Ding Ding. I was there.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
I’ve never been in the military, but also, you’re assuming that just because he said it, he would’ve actually done it. Things are never the same when they’re actually happening as they are in your head when you’re planning for them (one reason I find gun nuts amusing and pathetic when they talk about how they’d totally go John Wayne when faced by a dangerous criminal).
Heck, wasn’t there a study in World War Two that showed a staggering number of soldiers couldn’t bring themselves to shoot at an enemy even on a battlefield?
Corner Stone
@Helen: Well, somebody voted for that motherfucker. Was it you?
Amir Khalid
My guess, if anyone wants to know: Everything. From the get-go.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: It wasn’t liberals.
Helen
@Corner Stone: Nope. I am way embarrassed to say that that was my first vote. Yep I was 18 yrs old in 1980. And I voted for? John Anderson. SHUT UP. I was stupid.
Corner Stone
@Helen: Nothing to be ashamed of. He had a great hit song, that one time.
Irishguy
“It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up.”
Sorry, but I didn’t get that when it was said about Watergate and I don’t get it now.
It is the crime AND the cover-up.
First we “All the President’s Men” — and no doubt in my mind the president himself — ordering the burglarly and bugging off the offices of the opposition party. This is dictator stuff. It was never a “third-rate burglary.”
And if you don’t think this “crime” was serious, go read the angry e-mail from the head of the Port Authority, Patrick Foye. He sure thought it was the crime, since the cover-up had not even begun.
Irishguy
@Helen: My first vote was for George McGovern. Not many people can say that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Irishguy: I was fucking eight years old. Jesus!
Helen
@Irishguy: What year was that? 196??? And how Irish are you? Mom was born and raised on Conway St. If you are good Irish you will know Conway St.
Joke – but really not.
Omnes Omnibus
@Helen: It would have been ’72.
max
@Omnes Omnibus: He was in a peaceful area. Rules of engagement are different.
True, but generally anyone toting a gun in a secured area is going to be a guard, and a guard’s duties generally involve dealing with perimeter penetrations.
Also, an officer is asking a hypothetical question of a enlisted man about whether the enlisted man is going to obey orders.
@Villago Delenda Est: It was the bluntness of his response that kinda knocked me backwards. He didn’t ask any questions about it, or ask for clarification, or a better description of the scenario.
See, I suspect he’d say he’d shoot up a bus that he knew was full of schoolchildren. Because orders.
My response would be “do we really need to shoot this guy? Might be better to not fire on him and miss and scare him off without knowing what he was doing there…”
And I’d bet he would do that on his own (or go ask his sergeant)… but if an officer goes ‘ENEMY! KILL!’ bang bang band.
But then again, guys with brass are supposed to be the brains.
I’m certain that both his DI(s) and his sergeant had repeatedly informed that thinking was above his pay grade.
max
[‘In all the accounts I have ever read, balking at an *EXPLICITLY* illegal order is so difficult as to border on the impossible. Iffy scenarios are no-brainers. So to speak.’]
Omnes Omnibus
@max:
FWIW I was given an illegal order by my battery commander (a captain) when I was a first lieutenant. It wasn’t a shoot civilians thing – it was simply a directive to do something improper. I said no. My commander repeated it as a “direct order” and I said that we should probably take it to the battalion commander (my boss’s boss); at that point, it got dropped. My relationship with my commander was somewhat fraught from that time on, but I already knew that the army was not a career for me.
Helen
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks Omnes – 10 I was.
PurpleGirl
Helen — Allan Hevasi. He was the NYS comptroller and was forced to resign over decisions made as comptroller and also because he had state employees using a state car take his wife to the hospital for her chemotherapy sessions.
Another dynastic family in the making when his son also ran for State Assembly, I believe.
KS in MA
@Irishguy: I can! And damn proud of it!!!
Helen
@PurpleGirl: OY vey I went to grad school with his son Dan. The stories I could tell you. Dan is why Alan did not go to jail. Alan made a deal to save Dan.
Helen
@Helen: Sorry – why Alan DID go to jail. He saved his son Dan. And now the other son – don’t know his name is my NYS Assemblyman. You’d think they would be embarrassed – but no.
Joey Maloney
@jl: When some of you folks can find a way to get the general population riled up about an illegal, deadly, counterproductive war or civil rights, let us all know. Seriously, let us know how to pull it off, it would be useful information.
Start preempting Duck Dynasty with news reports about it.
Joel
@Suffern ACE:Christie’s viability depends on his ability to project a “bipartisan” front. This scandal takes that facade away, leaving him without a considerable edge on any of the other republican candidates for 2016. Yes, he can hang his hat on Sandy, but Rudy Giuliani’s 9/11 Mad Libs campaign didn’t go very far, so I don’t think Christie will, either.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: I can usually spot an autocorrect, but in this case I thought I had just learned a new colloquialism. I kind of like it. over barged
Cervantes
@Culture of Truth:
I went after you? What on earth does that mean?
Anyway, I went back and looked. Here’s the exchange you’re likely talking about:
Read it again. You just may have missed the point.
See above.
Drosselmeyer
@Culture of Truth:
“Beltwat Media” You win the intertubes today.