(Walt Handelsman via GoComics.com)
Harold Meyerson taunts the “moderate” Republicans:
… While The Post counts 21 GOP House members who have declared themselves in favor of ending the shutdown by passing a clean resolution, most of them have done nothing to compel the House Republican leadership to allow such a vote.
… The tea party faction, which by most estimates includes about 40 members, wields vast power over the leadership and the caucus, while the center-right contingent wields zilch. Both factions have enough votes to block legislation backed by the House leadership if the Democrats also vote against it, but it has been tea partyers, not centrist-moderates, who have used that veto power. Unlike their tea party counterparts, the center-right members lack gumption and imagination.
The gumption gap is understandable; unlike the Republican radicals, the moderates fear primary challenges next year. But there is a way to avoid Republican primary challenges, though it would take a leap of political imagination. To vote his beliefs and duck that challenge, all a center-right Republican has to do is declare himself an independent.…
If they truly believe that government by hostage-taking is no way to run a democracy, they shouldn’t have too much trouble defending their defection. They could argue that their party has been transformed into a closed sect that can never win a national majority, or that it has descended into a hysteria that has run roughshod over such conservative values as prudence and balance, not to mention a modicum of strategic sense.
They could dub themselves Independent Republicans or True Republicans. They could tell their constituents that they put the interests of the nation above those of their party. If that’s not a winning argument in a swing district, Lord only knows what is….
NotMax
Minnesota tried something similar from ’75 to ’95, when (after Watergate) the state party changed its name to the Independent Republican party.
But then, the Ds in Minnesota have been officially named the Democrat-Farmer-Labor party (DFL) since the 1940s.
Groucho48
They are Republicans. Which is another way of saying that you can’t believe anything they say. Depending on any of these folks to actually do what they say is like depending on Snowe and Collins to vote in favor of Obamacare back then.
Sly
… and forever cut himself off from the NRCC and the galaxy of PACs that get Republicans elected.
Spaghetti Lee
I’d love that, even aside from the standard ‘watch the GOP tear itself apart’ reasons. As a political nerd I’d just be interested in seeing the consequences of a political system where changing or dropping party affiliation due to policy gripes is common and even encouraged. Not that I believe ‘independent’ confers any sort of superior wisdom, but I also think the reason the GOP has been able to hold serve is because the two-sides-locked-in-mortal-combat-for-the-soul-of-the-country meme helps them. Anything that treats politics as war instead of civilized debate helps the GOP. If people realized that party affiliation isn’t in the blood and you don’t need to stay loyal to it at all costs, I think that’s a good thing.
Another group of people who’s bluff would be called are the No Labels/Americans Elect crowd (man, remember those guys?) OK, principled centrist hipster, you think the problem with politics is all this nasty partisanship and that we need to get beyond that? Well, here’s 20 Republicans who agree with you, better give them some shelter before the Tea Party tears out their throats. Oh, you mean the ‘beyond partisanship’ thing only applies to liberals? Well I never…
Hill Dweller
The Village is starting to slightly back off the ‘both sides’ nonsense, but the wingnuts should be getting pounded for this insanity. If they cause a default, the Obama admin should find some way to bring criminal charges.
amk
How about ‘they put the interests of the nation as well as the party above the tea party caucus’ ?
amk
Yeah, where are those charlatans now? They were started to mainly help mittbot.
Villago Delenda Est
They could, but they won’t.
Because they’re all cowards.
No quarter for cowardly scum like the “moderate” Rethugs.
Villago Delenda Est
@Spaghetti Lee:
Well, duh. The “centrists” are actually more worthless Rethuglican protofascists. Fuck them, too.
tbert
Yes, in order to save the political party to which they belong, all they have to do is destroy it. Who could say no to that?
billgerat
I think Obama should stay the course and not give in, and the Democrats need to keep pounding the GOP for their antics and be up front every day with what will happen as a consequence for default, and when the time comes right before the default happens, the GOP will finally cave when they realize that they will get the blame and ruin any chance of getting votes in 2014. There still is a good chance they may hold their ground and let a default happen, but when the world markets panic and big business starts losing money, the pressure will be too much for them to stand and then they will turn tail.
As noted above, the moderate Republicans will not split off from the GOP because they would be shut out forever from the massive GOP funding that helps them get elected. The only way out I see for them is to let their brand be destroyed and then ousting their Conservative tea-baggers in a reform effort, and let the Conservatives go off and become the new Dixiecrats. Their insanity will eventually destroy them, and they will either disappear through attrition, or moderate their politics so the reformed GOP will assimilate them. They could go through what happened to the Whig Party, but I believe that the two party system in this country is much more ingrained than it was in the 1800’s, so I can’t really see a third party ever growing big enough to be a challenge.
NotMax
Meyerson’s heart may be in the right place, but his call for a mutiny will yield no bounty.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Promising signs from yesterday’s local elections. One of the two Republican winners was also the only Republican endorsed by Indy Week, and is my council rep. I’m not too upset, especially since his opponent is a first timer. I should also mention that his opponent was a GOTV type; this was the first time I’ve gotten even a robocall from a local Democrat, let alone two. If he stays involved, and he says he will, I’m even more hopeful.
I’m especially happy with the school board results.
Michael Bersin
The U.S. representative in my district, Vicky Hartzler (r-the Chinese are spying on us through our toasters), is taking a lot of grief on the shutdown and her teabagger pronouncements on the ACA from constituents via Twitter and Facebook. Interestingly, it’s been a while since she’s had on open to the general public town hall.
Higgs Boson's Mate
And to fly without wings all I have to do is obtain Harry Potter’s magic wand. C’mon, these moderate Republicans won’t stand up to the Tea Party. What in the world would make anyone think that they’d stand up to the Tea Party and their own constituents?
Not going to happen.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Food for thought from BBC News:
Linda Featheringill
@billgerat:
The Republicans will cave at the last minute:
I no longer think so.
What seems to be at stake is the republic. Either the Righties overthrow the present government and institute rule by whichever minority is willing to be the most destructive or the President will assume responsibilities [and power] that effectively subvert the representative form of government.
Either way, the US will become less democratic.
We might need to hold a constitutional convention or something.
Schlemizel
So I’m going to take it that this Meyerson character just fell from space a couple of days ago and has no idea how politics works in the US at the dawn of this new millennium.
Any Representative who made a move like that would be denied all that sweet sweet cash they need to run a campaign. They would be teabagged if they attempted to run in a primary, frustrated by ballot laws their brothern enacted to limit 3rd party access in some states and left in a 3-way with a well funded GOP opponent and probably a Dem one if the DCCC thought they might tip the balance. It would be faster and easier to come out publicly and say they are retiring.
I’ll second NotMax’s story about the MN ‘IR’ party but add the note that there was actually a Farmer-Labor party in MN in the 30’s and 40’s. It was a populist group that fit naturally into the local Democratic party as they moved into the FDR era.
mai naem
I would like people(i.e Dems) to show up Lizzy Cheney’s events and push her to have her Daddy’s pals pay for the dead soldiers’ death benefits. Since her daddy-o and her were such cheerleaders for mo’ war mo’ war its only fair they and their other rich war profiteers pay for them.
Schlemizel
@Linda Featheringill:
Cheese! And I thought I had a bleak opinion of the future!
Sadly, I think there is a very good chance of the first part of your vision. I see no hope in todays society of a successful constitutional convention. Imagine a group representative of the country that could write something that would satisfy Occupy and Tea Party, Paulites and Republicans, Christianists and free thinkers. It would never be written but if it were it would either be so vague as to be pointless or written in the blood of the factions that lose in the streets.
Linda Featheringill
@Schlemizel:
Yeah, the constitutional convention thing might be a dream.
Patricia Kayden
@Linda Featheringill: I don’t see the Repubs overthrowing President Obama’s administration (although they’re making a strong effort to do so) and I hope President Obama doesn’t assume any unauthorized power to address the debt ceiling crisis. I’m hoping that Wall Street/mega rich will put enough pressure on Republicans so that they have no choice but to buckle at the last minute. A lot of $$$ will be lost among the 1% if the US goes over the financial cliff and takes other countries with it.
Schlemizel
@Linda Featheringill:
Yeah, we should probably not discuss it further, I don’t need any more cheering down.
On the brighter side – at least the baggers are not bringing AK47s onto the House floor, yet
http://www.albawaba.com/news/jordan-parliament-gun-519385
Schlemizel
@Patricia Kayden:
Not to go all godwin but back in the ’30’s the German industrialist thought they were pretty clever to use the Nazi Party as a populist front for their own ends. They assumed they could control the monster. What they didn’t count on was a megalomaniac for a leader and a hard core of true believers that were not about to be reined in once they had control. It did not end well as I recall. My concern is that the baggers actually believe the BS they are being fed and will not concede quietly. They are already talking themselves over the cliff by pretending it will be simple and painless.
agrippa
Copperheads.
These ‘moderate’ Republicans remind me of the copperheads. Copperheads were Democrats who were against secession and opposed doing anything about it.
‘Moderate’ Republicans have these choices: go along to get along; stay home at election time; vote Democratic Party. I think that most will choose the first option.
zoot
“such conservative values as prudence and balance”
WHAT!!! what world is that?
I really despise people projecting values we would like republicans to have onto republicans when there is clearly no evidence that they possess said values – just the opposite. Clearly, clearly today’s republican is ruthless, egomaniacal, indecent, irrational, ignorant, violent, the worst of every trait a human can possess.
raven
@Schlemizel: You two need to get a room.
Waldo
@Patricia Kayden: I think you’re right about the 1 percenters — most of them, anyway. They’ll probably go along with the brinksmanship until it looks like it might really cost them some $$. Another factor is that all the talking heads who can easily shrug off the effects of entitlement cuts to the poors will soon have to consider what a financial collapse will do to their personal investments. The abstract is about to become real for a lot of these people. Money changes everything.
OzarkHillbilly
So Meyerson shows he doesn’t know the first thing about politics.
So he can’t get primaried. Whoo hoo!!! Now how does he get re-elected with only half the GOP votes and none of the Dem votes?
David Fud
@Patricia Kayden: and then they buy it back at firesale prices… bigger piece of a smaller pie is probably quite acceptable to the zero-sum-gamers.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Patricia Kayden:
The influence of Wall Street and the mega rich has been severely eroded over the past few years. Now that their money no longer flows through the hands of party leaders but instead flows to PACs with agendas of their own it’s become much more difficult for reasonably sane leaders to curb their less sane brethren with threats of withholding cash.
For all we know both Wall Street and the mega rich have already wargamed strategies that will enable them to make money from a collapse. If that’s the case then their interest in preventing a collapse will be zero.
satby
Meyerson isn’t a dummy; I’m pretty sure he’s deliberately mocking the “moderates” who vote lockstep with the crazies but then go home and tell their constituents what brave independents they are. I think the mockery is as much of a cudgel as logic. Maybe more, because Dog knows logic isn’t making a dent in their skulls.
C.V. Danes
Even if they called themselves “Independents” or “Independent Republicans”, they would still have to win elections in highly conservative, gerrymandered districts.
The Republicans have gerrymandered themselves into a corner on this one. It will take the enormous effort of flipping a lot of state legislatures to fix it.
Napoleon
@agrippa:
That is exactly what they are and that analogy should be made whenever possible.
Chris T.
@amk: They’re still advertising on the TeeVee Machine here (on the “pivot” channel, which seems to be aimed at those in their late teens and 20s).
Emma
Not a single one of them have the balls that Walt gave Mickey.
Narcissus
In addition to cowardice they are completely without shame so I’m not sure how pointing out their craven nature changes anything
liberal
Moderate? LOL. Just “far right” instead of “nutball, loonytunes far right”.
nemesis
Kinda like how the progressives weild ziltch power over the Dems party.
Oh, and the notion of moderate gopers flipping to Indi status over this is silly. Thats not even an option.
nemesis
The end game? Your thoughts?
Maybe run the country into default and blame Obama/Obamacare for the disaster?
Maybe rock the country to its financial core, thereby bringing about a Shock Doctrine moment where new ideas (really just old far right ideas) are more acceptable to the masses?
I cant accept the baggers have no plan. Sure they expected Obama to fold. If he doesnt, baggers arent of the mind to reset and start again. They have commited 100% to the shutdown/default. They have wanted to destroy gummit for decades. Now the party has become crazy enough to do just that.
And we will sit and watch the slo mo train wreck and wonder how it could happen here. So we default, the world shutters and shit gets even weirder. Then what happens?
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Awe. Some. I’ll have to call and jubilate with my family in Raleigh-Durham. Thanks for sharing this.
Ash Can
Realism of Myerson’s suggestion aside, I’m just glad to see him calling these guys out. I’m just happy to see anyone in the corporate media calling them out, as long as it’s on a consistent and daily basis, like a drumbeat, just like the president is doing with his daily appearances, speeches, meetings, etc. This is how the tide of public opinion is turned; this is how “conventional wisdom” gets made. And there’s a very real purpose to this — if America and the world collectively view the House GOP as a group of terrorist extremists who are holding a gun to everyone’s head and are about to pull the trigger, Obama taking extraordinary measures to defuse the situation will come not as a shock but as a relief. Following that, the factions in the House demanding (and likely getting) impeachment will be marginalized and will do nothing but further damage the GOP brand.
It’s a strategy that can yield some very positive results over the longer term, not just for the president and the Democrats, but for the nation and the world, who will ultimately benefit from competent governance in America once the wackos are neutralized. It’s just a goddamned shame that so much destruction and harm have to take place in the meantime.
Punchy
Please tell me this clusterfuck idea is approaching Peak Wingy. Cuz if having a roaming band of asshole truckers causing mayhem in any small town that pisses them off becomes the norm, then please, bring on the meteor.
Ash Can
@Punchy: Didn’t you see the latest? The guy organizing this idiocy was quoted in yesterday’s WaPo as saying naw, it was all just a joke, he just wanted to get some publicity for his pet RWNJ gripes. That left me wondering who called him first — his boss, telling him to get his stupid ass back to work and stop fucking around, or the FBI, asking him if they could come by his house later in the day to have a few words with his kneecaps.
g
They could grow a pair.
bjacques
I seem to recall the Million Gun March (or whatever it was called ) that was supposed to happen this summer ended the same way.
I am disappoint,
Tone in DC
@bjacques:
Now you’re just messing with us.
What substance could one smoke that would make that seem possible? Must be some strong shit.
As for the moderate g00pers… whatever, man. Another commenter quoted General Sherman earlier this week. I can’t improve on that.
TAPX486
On the Daily Beast
He is editor of Reason Magazine. What an oxymoron.
We are destroying the system in pursuit of a goal that some one who believes in ‘reason’ would see is impossible to achieve. We can’t keep reducing government spending for the obvious reason that the population is growing. You need a lot more teachers, school building and school buses for 60 million kids than you do for 30 million. In addition those extra 30 million kids have to live in houses that require roads, fire protection, etc. You also have to raise the tax money to finance that growth. It really isn’t rocket science.
Now maybe the folks in Texas have seen the future and are leading by example. In some counties they are replacing paved roads with dirty/gravel roads because the locals won’t raise taxes to fixed the paved ones. I remember years ago reading how Cuba was headed back to the future by replacing cars with horses. It was pretty funny. Are we headed in that direction? Looks like it in Texas.
Kropadope
@zoot: He said conservative values (the small c is relevant), not Republican values. There is nothing conservative about Republicans or the Conservative Movement. They want to conserve nothing, just to rip things down (except for our feudal lords-in-waiting).
These terms liberal and conservative have been twisted by modern politics. First of all, they are not mutually exclusive. Liberalism is organizing the economy so that a maximum number of decisions are made by individuals and I believe is synonymous with capitalism. Our current society is organized around a regulated form of capitalism.
A conservative positions would be to preserve that, while making the small, regular tweaks that are required to keep it functioning in a changing society. This would be a conservative liberal position, the hallmark of the modern Democrats. The Republicans want to tear down decades’ worth of institutions and replace it with their preferred way of organizing society (this describes a “radical” position), absolute laissez-faire capitalism (an absolute form of liberalism). This would make the Republicans radical liberals.
Proceed to tear down the radical liberal Republicans, Rush Limbaugh.
Jim C.
Joe Lieberman won election as an independent because the Republicans threw their entire weight behind him and didn’t really support the republican in the race because they knew that he’d never win.
Any Republican Congressman who tries to run as an Independent will likely lose. He and the guy running on the Republican ticket will split the conservative vote and hand the seat over to the Democrat.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@nemesis: I cant accept the baggers have no plan.
God lord, you’ve listened to the nonsense they put out like “don’t socialize my medacare” and say that? They had a plan, it was Hilter-Carter Obama would cave because Hitler-Carter Obama is a wimp. Turns out President Obama isn’t the Tea Tard fantasy Hitler-Carter Obama and now they don’t know what to do, beyond they can’t back down or they will be primaried by their own outraged base.
It’s that simple.
Hungry Joe
@agrippa: Damn — that’s perfect. Copperheads, indeed. To those who still believe there are moderate Republicans in Congress, I say: Name one. And by that I don’t mean, name a right-winger who isn’t certifiable; I mean, look at the voting records, then name a moderate Republican. One.
Remember when people used to do ::crickets:: ? It’s fallen out of style, but I never had a chance to do it when it was cool. So what the hell:
::crickets::
Lurker
Where on earth is John Cole? I want updates on the piglets and Steve, as well as on whatever predicaments John has gone through in the past few weeks (like misplacing his mustard jar, etc.). Where is the man?
Pluky
@Sly: Beat me to it.
Matt McIrvin
@TAPX486: The thing that really pisses me off is that, just at the point when austerity economics has been thoroughly discredited both theoretically and by disastrous experience with it in Europe, we’re getting a big old heap of austerity economics dumped on us for no reason other than that the most extreme right-wing part of our legislature found ways to impose it by force and terror. And the Very Serious People are all going to go ahead and act like this is a normal and sensible thing to do.
I’ve seen a bunch of Republicans providing the new talking point that failure to raise the debt limit doesn’t imply default at all, it just means that we get an instant balanced-budget amendment! We’ll just cut what we have to to keep servicing the debt, because the 14th Amendment says so.
I think the translation from wingnutese is: the right way forward is to never raise the debt limit again, and when the default happens, it’ll be Obama’s fault, not ours. I assume they’ll be pushing this line hard, and I figure there’s at least even odds people will eventually believe it.