Listened to attorney general Holder announce the federal challenge to North Carolina’s new voting restrictions.
In the North Carolina lawsuit, the person said, the government will challenge requirements in state law that eliminate the first seven days of early voting opportunities and eliminate same-day voter registration during the early voting period. Same-day registration allows voters to cast a ballot immediately after presenting elections officials with proof of their name and home address.
The Justice Department challenge also is aimed at a provision eliminating the counting of certain types of provisional ballots by voters who cast ballots in their home counties but do not vote in the correct precincts.
Finally, the federal government will challenge a provision in the new law that requires voters to present government-issued identification at the polls in order to cast ballots. In North Carolina, a recent state board of elections survey found that hundreds of thousands of registered voters did not have a state-issued ID. Many of those voters are young, black, poor or elderly.
Just a helpful hint for conservatives who are feeling persecuted and sad and have hurt feelings – when a state initiates early voting, holds a couple of elections and discovers that 70% of African Americans vote early and then launches a frantic effort to change the law and restrict early voting, we then suspect that conservatives are targeting African American voters. That’s rational. We’re allowed to use common sense when looking at new laws. We’re allowed to consider not just what conservatives say or what may or may not be “in their hearts” but what actually happens.
J.Ty
I really don’t understand why anybody would vote for the party that doesn’t want you to vote. Oh, right–it’s the party that doesn’t want “THEM” to vote.
burnspbesq
Text of Holder’s prepared remarks.
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speeches/2013/ag-speech-130930.html
Violet
Facts? Data? That’s crazy talk! Why don’t you just go with what they say is in their hearts along with whatever they say Jesus told them to do. So much simpler–saves all that time and effort of looking at actual information.
Comrade Jake
What’s the possible rationale for eliminating same-day registration? More voting fraud BS?
Botsplainer
Brownie points to the person who can point out why Americans don’t have a uniform and conveniently obtained form of national ID. Even more points are awarded to the person who can name the political movement that is responsible for the current absence of a national ID system.
? Martin
You’re racist. And they’re racist for all voting early. Let’s just all just agree that everyone except for Republicans are racist.
Kay
@burnspbesq:
One of the questions after was why he flew US attorneys up when we are in a budget crisis. “People” want to know that.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
My own very well thought out voter reform measures involve placing polling places at the top of a remote snow-covered mountain at the end of a blistering twenty mile marathon in August that can only be navigated by the fittest young people who must maintain a brisk pace in an effort to avoid being snuffed out by snipers or chewed up by rabid packs of hyenas.
srv
Eventually you liberals will understand what this fetishization with instant gratification comes with great costs to society.
If you support same-day registration, then you should support same-day gun purchases.
mclaren
Silly lad. Reality is a liberal construct designed to impede the inevitable progress of conservatism. Ignore it.
? Martin
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: I’ve never understood why the KKK didn’t just set up to man the polling places. The don’t need to electioneer at all, just wear the getup. Maybe burn a cross out front to help people find the place.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
BUT ROBERT BYRD USED TO BE WITH THE KKK, THAT PROVES THAT THE DEMONCRATS ARE THE SUPER-MEGA-ULTRA FILTHY RACISTS, RABBLERABBLERABBLE
(God help me I’ve heard and read that too many goddamn times)
@Comrade Jake:
Same-Day Registration means that those who really want to vote haven’t suffered enough to fight for their vote (no, seriously, that’s precisely the rationale from an NC State Legislator for eliminating early voting and same-day registration: they insult those who fought for our right to vote for not suffering enough to exercise it).
EconWatcher
I think this is a great political issue, and I hope we pound it. Focus particularly on restrictions on early voting. That has nothing, nothing to do with fraud, and everybody knows it. Run relentless ads: “They want to make it hard to vote, because they think their chances are better if fewer people have a chance to vote. Does that sound American to you?”
Except for the 27%, I just can’t imagine this playing well, even among many regular GOP voters.
Kay
@? Martin:
I actually think it’s the organizing edge that early voting gives, because it does give a huge edge to the better ground organization. “Banking votes” is real. It has real value. Early voting changes campaigns.
If you’re a conservative backer and you’re wholly dependent on campaigns conducted at 30,000 feet with massive amounts of money directed at ads and consultants, that’s the field you want to play on.
ant
@srv: huh?
IowaOldLady
One of the things I always liked about the Voting Rights Act was that it didn’t care what was in legislators’ hearts, just about the effect of their actions. Now I’m sad.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@EconWatcher:
You underestimate the power of reflexive contrarianism against Dems and ‘those people’. Too many people are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face, long as they get to cut off others’ noses in the process.
Patricia Kayden
Thank God for Attorney General Holder. And thank God that President Obama listen to all the idiots who were encouraging him to force Holder out.
Chyron HR
Feh. If voters had these alleged “civil rights”, Paul pere et fils would be defending them. QED.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
Just going to slip this in here for your “education reform” file: an interesting review by Jonathan Kozol of Diane Ravitch’s new book, Reign of Error: The Hoax of the Privatization Movement and the Danger to America’s Public Schools, in The New York Times Book Review:
Yatsuno
@ant: Trolls gotta troll.
Patrick
@srv:
Yes, because obviously they are the same thing. Goodness…
Violet
@EconWatcher: There are a lot of ads that could be done in support of early voting that would target Republican voters.
White, thirties-ish mom type woman talks about how she’d planned to vote on election day and then her daughter got sick and had to stay home from school and she couldn’t leave her home alone. So she didn’t get to vote. If only she’d been able to vote early!
White, middle-aged man, a small business owner, talks about how he likes voting on election day, but last election his business had an emergency and he wasn’t able to get to the polls. If only he’d been able to vote early!
White, elderly woman talks about how voting is so important to her, but she depends on her son to take her to the polls and he couldn’t take that time off work on election day. If only she’d been able to vote early!
Patricia Kayden
@srv: Wow. Just wow on that “argument”. Wish I could downvote that comment.
Patrick
I don’t have a problem with the provision in the new law that requires voters to present government-issued identification at the polls in order to cast ballots.
Provided of course that they are issued for free by the government. Otherwise, this is no different than a poll tax.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Patrick:
Of course they’re not the same. You vote only a couple of days a year at most, but GUNS ARE FOREVER. Guns are more freedom than voting is, QED. /s
Kay
@IowaOldLady:
The whole thing drives me crazy, across the board. I read a NYTimes piece last night about the shut down and one of the questions was could conservatives “save face”.
Really? Why should anyone care?
Justice Roberts made a whole supreme court hearing ABOUT whether conservatives are racists. I mean, jesus christ. They really, really believe that they are The Standard and the rest of us just revolve around them. It’s like a distraction when we have to tear ourselves away from the examination of The Conservative Soul and talk about those pesky voters. They should conduct these boring discussions on an intra-GOP basis. Why the whole country has to follow along is beyond me.
Patricia Kayden
@Violet: So pretty much anyone White will appeal to Republican voters. Unfortunately, you’re so right about that.
Roger Moore
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
I think the snow-covered mountain is incompatible with the blazing August heat, especially given that elections are in November. Also, too, marathons are 26.2 miles; the last 6.2 can’t be left out because they’re really, really hard. That said, I think we should move all the polling places and voter registration sites into minority-dominated neighborhoods so only people who aren’t afraid of blacks and browns can vote.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Kay:
We should care because Conservatives are the True Real Americans and have to teach us Fake Americans and Aliens what it truly means to be a Patriotic God Fearing Citizen. Duh.
Yatsuno
@Kay: Cuz they’re the Real Merikans of course! Ain’t you learned nothing in yer fancy elitist universities libtards? All Republicans have nothing less than the true interests of Real Merika at heart, not them funny-lookin’ swarthy city folk, ifn ya know what I mean and I think you do.
Violet
@Patricia Kayden: ONLY white people will appeal to Republican voters. White people in ads can also appeal to non-Republicans, but if it’s Republicans you are targeting, you gotta go white.
srv
@Patrick: Clearly, you believe some Constitutional Rights are more equal than others.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
And yet the MSM and politicians are obsessed with “saving face.” That’s why they believed that Obama couldn’t possibly back down from military strikes and accept a diplomatic solution, especially one spearheaded by Putin — it would make him and the US “look weak” and that was more important than not dropping bombs on civilians.
Luckily for all of us, Obama doesn’t care about “saving face.” He cares about getting the results he wants, and if that means other people get to look better than he does, he could not care less.
Roger Moore
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
So, how are well-off white people suffering for the vote, or does that apply only to Those People?
burnspbesq
@Kay:
DOJ racks up millions of frequent flyer miles every year flying trial lawyers around the country. For example, only three of the 88 U.S. Attorney’s offices (SDNY, NDCa, and CDCa) have Tax Division lawyers. The other 85 districts are covered from DC.
Patrick
@srv:
I take it you think guns should be allowed in airplanes? After all, 2nd amendment…
Kay
@Steeplejack:
Thanks so much. I read it. I follow it pretty obsessively now. It’s been great to watch it build. I read “Savage Inequalities” a hundred years ago but I still remember the book.
I was waiting for it to become a political liability, a political issue, and it’s part of the debate in Michigan because the Dem candidate launched a real broadside against for-profit schools in an op-ed. He’s either extraordinarily brave or he’s hearing this from voters. It’s the first time I’ve seen it raised so bluntly in a state-wide campaign.
Wag
@srv:
…and therefore anyone who supports same day gun purchaes should support same day voter registration.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Kay
@burnspbesq:
I hate it, because obviously voting rights isn’t a top-tier issue, but does she have to go to the press conference and hijack it for the 10,000th discussion of the shut-down? Really? That’s what “people” are worried about? The per diem of US attorneys? Who are these people that are worried about that?
srv
@Patrick: I take it you think voting should be allowed on airplanes.
burnspbesq
@Kay:
Where did you watch/listen to the presser? I’m looking on C-SPAN, but I haven’t found it yet.
gian
@Patrick:
Why should air marshalls be the only ones allowed to pack ? (Seriously I expect this argument sooner or later… the gun nuts want people packing in bars…how would drunk sports fans with guns be anything other than a recipient for carnage I don’t know)
Patrick
@srv:
Of course. Airplanes, trains, voting booths, community centers, anywhere possible. That’s why we fought the British and beat the Germans, pal. Otherwise, what was the point?
Roger Moore
@Violet:
I think it depends on the ad. If you’re trying to protect or expand rights, yes, it’s very important to point out that you’re protecting the rights of white people, since Republicans see protecting the rights of minorities as giving them special privileges. But if you’re doing an ad to support anti-minority policies, it’s especially important to have a minority spokesperson; one minority speaking up in favor of a Republican policy is enough to prove all the critics who claim it’s racist and targeting minorities wrong.
Kay
@burnspbesq:
On Talking Points Memo. It started about 12:15 here.
She seemed to be making some point about how political appointees won’t be affected if there’s a shut-down (which I didn’t know) and career employees will. Holder has absolutely nothing to do with the shut down and no control over it. Is he supposed to stop working? I thought it was a dumb question. It’s bad even as a “gotcha” question. She caught him working instead of hammering out a budget deal!
Seanly
@srv:
You make no f’ing sense. Restrictions on gun purchases have no bearing on restrictions on voting or vice versa.
Roger Moore
@Wag:
Not at all. As wingnuts will point out*, the Constitution explicitly protects the right to keep and bear arms, but it doesn’t protect the right to vote. Checkmate, libtard!
*Incorrectly. There are actually plenty of constitutional amendments that protect voting rights.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
People who want to distract attention away from the Republican attack on voting rights. Asking about the shutdown is the political equivalent of shouting “Squirrel!”.
Haydnseek
@srv: Of course not! Same day voting is exactly the same as ensuring the rights of a pissed off drunken psychopath with a record of spousal abuse as long as your arm to patronize a gun store for the express purpose of obtaining a gun that very day for the express purpose of shooting that fucking nagging bitch in the face. Cooling off periods are for pussies, faggots, and Democrats. Yeah, I know you’re a troll, but fuck it.
Jebediah, RBG
@srv:
Yeah, because, per the Arglebargle Principle, any two things that can be put into the same sentence (eg buying a gun, voting) are automatically perfectly analogous.
Kay
@Roger Moore:
I love when they bring that up. It’s such a bad political argument. “There is no right to vote!”
From incumbent politicians. Hmm. Please proceed, gentlemen. Tell us voters more about that, how we have no rights. That’s a real winner.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
I think some serious snark is flying over a lot of people’s heads here.
At least I hope it’s snark.
srv
@Patrick: Well, while your ancestors were valiantly fighting at the voting booth, others thankfully did not have to wait for a permit to actually do stuff.
NotMax
The way the North Carolina legislature is trending, that state may end up as the first with a two-tier voting regulatory system:
· Many restrictions overturned and status quo ante applied to federal races
· Most restrictions left in place for state and local races
Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare. (Also a guarantee of even longer lines and waits, depressing turnout and voting further.)
srv
@Roger Moore: It’s always very interesting when hypocrites point out that others are hypocrites.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
It’s doubly bad because it’s so clearly not true. It’s only true in the wingnut version of the Constitution, which stops at the 12th Amendment.
shortstop
@Roger Moore: And voters must take public transportation to get there. No private cars, taxis or armored trucks.
Chyron HR
You’ll all have to excuse srv. As a True Progressive he, of course, reflexively opposes anything “Lynch” Holder does, but he can’t actually say “voting rights are bad”.
So instead we get some tortured nonsense about “gun rights hypocrites” and he hopes we all drop the subject.
Trollhattan
O/T for Kay: I heard (part of) a Diane Ravitch interview this morning. The audio should eventually be posted here.
http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201309300900
One of the most succinct summaries I’ve encountered about the for-profit hijacking of public education–made all the more powerful by her former insider role.
shortstop
I always get srv mixed up with someone else with an all-consonant nym. If people would just name themselves Multiple Orgasm* or Sacher Torte or stuff like that, this wouldn’t happen.
*Wish I’d called myself that, instead of carrying on a lame old childhood joke.
Trollhattan
@Trollhattan:
I see I should have read the thread from top down.
@Steeplejack:
Shakezula
Fixed.
Kay
@Roger Moore:
I think the NC governor is fascinating. He’s one of those Republicans that sounds like a hostage delivering a prepared statement from his captors. He doesn’t have that devil- may-care belligerence they look for in leaders.
NotMax
@shortstop
Reminded of this: Clinton Deploys Vowels To Bosnia
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Yeah, that’s a pretty good one, but I had to go by memory because your link failed.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Alternate link to a different site.
srv
@Chyron HR: A PUMA’s hate voting rights theory. Interesting. I’m not sure how that helps the wife of the first black President though… Must have something to do with Benghazi.
I was hoping for a Rahm thread, but now everybody hates him. Leaving the Obotsphere is apparently just like leaving the Cheney administration. Can’t wait for all these books to come out.
? Martin
@Roger Moore:
Stops at the 2nd, and only even numbered amendments are worth considering, like Star Trek movies.
Kay
@Trollhattan:
Did you see who Education Nation invited as experts on public education?
I think they should ask him how foreclosures and unemployment affect test scores.
One year I watched they had the governors on a panel and behind them was a huge University of Phoenix logo. Do these governors have no self-respect? I mean, really, they were used as endorsers of the for-profit sponsor by NBC. How dumb are they?
Another Botsplainer
Reconstruction today, Reconstruction tomorrow, Reconstruction forever !
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
I don’t know about that. They’re perfectly happy to claim 1st Amendment “free speech” support for Unlimited Corporate Cash!! and “free exercise” support for refusing to provide health care they don’t like. They’re OK with using 5th Amendment “taking” claims to try to undermine government regulations, and they seem to be new converts to the 10th Amendment. The big thing about the 2nd Amendment is that it’s the only one where they seem to be vocal and full throated supporters, at least now that the Roberts Court has ruled that the “well regulated militia” clause is meaningless.
cckids
@Kay:
Me too. I have to say it is a book that changed my life, in that it opened my (white, small-town Nebraska) eyes to the realities of inner-city kids; not just the sentimentalities of them. I have recommended it to everyone I know who is involved in education; and given it to many teacher-graduates. (not all of them appreciated it).
The story of the school in East St. Louis where the sewer system was backing up into the kitchens, named after MLK, and the HS girl said “Our school’s name is like a joke on history”. Some things you don’t forget.
Trollhattan
@Kay:
Dear Lord. Were Willard Romney and David Koch unavailable?
Kay
@cckids:
I feel as if they need the big PR push because the polling doesn’t back them up. The number one concern of parents regarding public schools is funding, not test scores or teacher assessments. Parents are right, too. 17 states have drastically cut funding since 2009. People who use public schools of course know this.
Parents overwhelmingly “trust” teachers, and that hasn’t slipped as long as they’ve been polling on it, and that’s despite a nearly 20 year campaign to portray teachers as stupid and lazy and self-interested. In political terms, those are some resilient poll numbers. Politicians would love to poll as well as teachers do.
As hard as they’ve tried, people just don’t hate public schools or teachers. That’s why we need this CRISIS and all this URGENCY from the media-reform nexus.
Patrick
@srv:
So again, are you in favor of guns on airplanes? Why are you refusing to answer the question? Do you believe or not believe in the 2nd amendment?
Ripley
And what kind of dressing would you like with your word salad?
PIGL
@srv: Just like I believe that some people are bigger douchecanoes than others. And the douchiest of all are the gunbuggers who think the world revolves around them and their fetish.
burnspbesq
The predictable response from the state.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/30/3242351/gov-mccrory-says-justice-departments.html
pseudonymous in nc
@Patrick:
And the government does the work of verifying identity for those people who, through no fault of their own, lack the perfect paper trail that so many take for granted.
Lots of county courthouses burn down, taking their vital records with them. Lots of people were born without birth certificates, especially in states where one group of people were second-class citizens.
Kay
@pseudonymous in nc:
I’m ashamed the Supreme Court doesn’t get that, because ordinary lawyers get it. It’s really hard to collect documents for poor people. They could have contacted any muni court judge or clerk and asked about that. The cluelessness pisses me off. It’s lazy. If they want to accept these cases they’re going to have to consider practicalities, as boring and mundane as that may be.
Older
@srv: Let me know the next time someone drops his ballot and it “goes off accidentally” and kills a small child.
Jebediah, RBG
@Older:
Well, just last week someone in my town robbed a bank with a sawed-off ballot. It was terrifying.
Spike
@Kay:
I hope he went with the obvious answer: We’re not in a budget crisis, we’re in a Republican douchebaggery crisis.
rikyrah
thanks Kay.
I knew you’d be on this.