Reader J sends in another good thing the NRA has blocked:
“Identification taggants are microscopically color-coded particles that, if added to explosives or gun powders during their manufacturing, might facilitate tracing those products after a bombing back to the manufacturer,” reads the 1999 post “Taggants and Gun Powers” by the NRA’s Institute of Legislative Action. “Then, through the use of mandatory distribution records, tracing would continue through wholesaler and dealer levels to an original purchaser or point of theft.”
The same NRA, however, has twice deployed its lobbyists to block the mandated use of identification taggants by gunpowder manufacturers.
The Boston bomb used gunpowder, with no taggants, thanks to the NRA, because Second Amendment and/or Jesus..
arguingwithsignposts
Why is it the “best” lobbyists in Washington (based upon results) are always the evil ones?
Also, OT: When is JC doing this redesign thing? And when are recent comments coming back? And why was the site wonky yesterday. (looks at list …) Ok, I guess that’s all. ;)
Schlemizel
tags might injure those poor, delicate, objects of the NRAs affection. an’t risk hurting the only thing you love.
c u n d gulag
FreeDUMB!!!
LiberTEA!!!
Oy vey!
gene108
@arguingwithsignposts:
Because the rest of us are apparently too chickenshit to vote out people, who do what these lobbyists want.
I find opposition to the minimum wage to be an interesting point in this, where raising it is overwhelmingly popular, but getting a bill to raise it is seemingly impossible.
If everyone, who wanted to raise it voted out people, who block raising it, you might be able to send a message to the Congressmen that they represent their voters (constituents, who don’t vote still don’t count) and not lobbyists for Wal-Mart.
MikeJ
@arguingwithsignposts:
Link on the front page of reddit. Think of it as a test for election coverage.
PeakVT
@arguingwithsignposts: The site was slow because Cole was linked to from Reddit.
Senyordave
When it comes to the NRA, the current crop of senators could be bought for a lunch at Subway. BTW, if the national Democrats ever give a dollar in the future to that newly-minted NRA whore Heidi Heitkamp, no one whould ever contribute a cent to them in the futre. She isn’t running for five years, and I’m sick of hearing the blue dog argument about getting re-elected. If she can’t do the right fucking thing about a major issue then she is a useless POS. I could imagine her voting against the Civil Rights Acts because her North Dakota constituents might disagree.
arguingwithsignposts
@MikeJ: Someone mentioned reddit in a thread yesterday. Which post was linked there?
I finally gave up after a few tries.
DecidedFenceSitter
@gene108: Exactly, it has support, but it is soft support that doesn’t translate into action, it translates into “wouldn’t it be nice if…”
NonyNony
There really is room here for a single-issue group to demolish the NRA completely. Money would be needed, but the NRA (and by extension, the gun manufacturers that they represent) is so cartoonishly evil that a few years of coordinated attack ads against the NRA might just open up room for politicians to not have to worry about their 100% NRA rating anymore, or even crush them entirely.
Because seriously – the only purpose stuff like this has is to reduce marginal costs for gun manufacturers and protect the perpetrators of gun crimes. Responsible gun owners have zilch to fear about crap like this.
gogol's wife
@NonyNony:
I’m hoping this will be Bloomberg’s next project after he leaves the mayoral-ship.
some guy
countdown to BJ Center Right Fight Club members explaining why primary challenges to Pryor and Begich are a very bad idea in 3, 2, 1…..
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@arguingwithsignposts: Something Else to Talk About
NonyNony
@gogol’s wife:
If I actually thought that Bloomberg were capable of being a silent funder in any kind of project, I’d look forward to it.
He seems to be a self-promoter of the highest magnitude, though, so it would rapidly and easily become “all about him” instead of anything real about the industry that is leading the charge to protect criminals from getting caught at every possible turn.
some guy
so according to Nate Silver, this would be the perfect time to begin looking for a primary challenger for Mark Pryor.
Ash Can
@some guy: They’d be a splendid idea. They just wouldn’t win, that’s all. You can’t conjure an electorate out of thin air (c.f. Darcy Burner).
some guy
@Ash Can:
who said anything about winning? Joe Lamont didn’t win, but Lieberwhore is now gone.
Suffern ACE
@NonyNony: well, at the same time, the more time he spends on gun control, the less time he has available to reform your school.
Schlemizel
pointless but this has been rattling around my brain for a time:
NRA: We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They might steal it from us. Wicked, tricksy, false! They will cheat you, hurt you, LIE. Must have the precious.
Tone in DC
Ned Lamont lost, true. But JoeMentum left due to his own incredible lack of popularity. Once the voters of Connecticut heard him hold forth on health care, insurance companies and national security, I figure they wanted him out more than they wanted Ned.
Cassidy
@some guy: Countdown to some firebagger purity troll thinking he’s witty and using some stale shit in….aw hell, you already got there. You knuckleheads are so predictable.
Kay
@Schlemizel:
This is a teacher-blogger who deserves a wider audience.
It reads like The Onion, but it’s true.
oldster
Daphne Taggant!
RaflW
@NonyNony: There really is room here for a single-issue group to demolish the NRA completely.
I’d support it, heck yah. For now, I’m donating to Gabby Gifford’s PAC.
some guy
@Cassidy:
see, that didn’t take long at all. Cassidy will probably be one of the biggest cheerleaders next fall to tell us why re-electing Begich and Pryor is not only a good thing, but should be a top priority.
this is why we can’t have nice things, exhibit A.
Cassidy
@Kay: Wow. That’s not satire is it? It has to be.
Cassidy
@some guy: You got your attention now. Go back to fapping away in private please. Jesus you guys are pathetic. Have you considered going outside and getting some real human conduct? This shtick you and the others do just to get some human interaction is pathetic.
cleek
i dare say anyone who can rig an electronic trigger can mix up a match of gunpowder. three ingredients. all easily obtainable.
Kay
@Cassidy:
She’s really funny. I read the reform lobbyist Twitter feeds sometimes-the celebs don’t write them, obviously, they have a staff, it’s all marketing slogans with a LOT of exclamation points (!)-and she manages to get the Tweeters to respond to her. They’re angry, so they sound (somewhat) like real people. As the kids say, “hilarity ensues.”
I’m afraid someone is going to “out” her and she’ll get fired :)
Gin & Tonic
@some guy: After having spent six years giving the middle finger to the Democrats who offended him. Effectively.
some guy
@Cassidy:
don’t worry pal, the BJ Center Right Fight Club is with you, 100%. Tell us again why cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits is a good thing. Tell us again why voting down background checks is a good thing. Tell us again why pay equity is a good thing, but it can wait. Tell us again why access to reproductive health is a good thing, but it can wait.
what I find really funny how the conservatives around here go out of their way to pretend they aren’t Center Right conservatives. Cassidy is Exhibit A in why the Democrats can’t have nice things.
Emily
Wasn’t there a debate that the NRA won about taggants after the Oklahoma City bombing? Is there some way to pound the NRA about that?
Cassidy
@Kay: I’ll have to start checking it out more. I just can’t believe that someone is crass enough to have come up with that “solution”.
some guy
@Gin & Tonic:
President KillList’s drone policy offends me, but it didn’t stop me from doing phone banks and door hanging.
Bill Nelson’s fealty to the financial industry didn’t stop me from working to get him elected.
Not everyone is as cynical and stupid as the BJ Center Right Fight Club, though it may appear that way to the resident conservatives
Cassidy
fa, fap, fap, fap, fap, same tired bullshit all the firebaggers say because they’re incapable of original thoughts just like the teabillies, fap, fap, fap
That’s all I hear, sunshine. Use some lube. Don’t want you to hurt yourself.
some guy
@Cassidy:
we await your calls to support Begich and Pryor with baited breath.
Cassidy
You should probably get that chronic masturbation problem looked into. It appears that you can’t stop.
some guy
a Center Right internet commenter obsessed with masturbation? how exceedingly rare.
Cassidy
@some guy: It’s sad how you people just can’t help yourself from shitting all over a conversation just because you need attention so badly. Get some help, stay away from children, stop beating your wife, and fucking goats. Clean living, man. Try it.
NonyNony
@Suffern ACE:
This is actually a really good point. Even if it isn’t productive, at least it stops him from being actively harmful.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Yes, no liability for gun manufacturers and the like. Because corporations are necessarily more equal than you, you dirty fucking prole.
We really are simply fucked, aren’t we? NRA just outright fucking rules our world.
Ruckus
Can we just label the NRA as a terrorist organization and get on with it?
mcd410x
If Democrats are going to be effective on issues like this, they have to start framing better. Less reason and stats — stop trying to argue the merits — no one cares. More vividness.
Why won’t the GOP give the Sandy Hook kids an up-or-down vote on Toomey-Manchin?
Wash, rinse, repeat. Always repeat.
(Aside, Democrats need much better training in mass media. You can see it in the way reporters are unable to say or write the word ‘filibuster’ — they just follow what they’re told. The Democrats have utterly failed here.)
Omnes Omnibus
@some guy: Generally, the idea of primarying rightish Democrats from the left works best in strongly blue areas where the population is to the left of the candidate. This is one of the reasons that it made sense in CT; in a two person race, the Democrat was going to win. The whole idea of more and better Democrats is based on two things. First, accept blue dog types in marginal seats because a shitty Democrat is better than a Republican. Second, don’t accept blue dog types in strongly Democratic areas because someone good could win. Based on this concept, proposed and advocated over at DK, is it a good idea to primary Begich?
aretino
I know the NRA has been blocking micro-taggants at least since 1980, when I researched the issue for high school debate.
Feudalism Now!
Blue dogs don’t get you votes, blue dogs get you committee chairs and a chance to set the agenda. Sad, but true. Republicans don’t give you that. If you can get a better candidate elected, go for it. But if you give the seat to a Teahadi, for ideological purity, we all get boned.
Is getting rid of Begich worth losing Warren from banking? Is it worth constant bs bills being sent to be vetoed (hopefully) or rubber stamped if an R is in the WH?
The task is to educate the electorate so that blue dogs and rethugs are equally unelectable. It is a long haul effort, but one that will be fruitful with or without Brand D or Brand R.
Villago Delenda Est
@aretino:
They block it because establishing responsibility for the intended use of the products of the merchants of death is anathema to them.
This is true of gun registration and background checks. The NRA and its members do not want to be held responsible for their exercise of their rights. You cannot be a responsible firearm owner and also be a member of the NRA, because the NRA doesn’t want anyone to be held responsible for death and destruction related to the products of their true masters, the merchants of death…the manufactures of firearms and ammunition.
Taggants would fix responsibility all the way back to the manufacturer of the gunpowder itself, and they’re not going to allow that to happen, ever.
These people scream about rights, but they want nothing to do at all with the responsibility of the exercise of them.
I wonder why that is?
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est:
I’ll take “Because They’re Assholes” for $1000, Alex.
gene108
@mcd410x:
In all honesty, the lack of a strong Democratic media presence hurts them here.
The right-wing media starts pushing a line, like “Democrats failure” and the MSM sticks their finger in the wind and sees it’s whispering “Democrats failure” and runs with it.
I don’t know exactly how to shift this imbalance.
It’s the main driver of the mess we’re in because it causes the electorate to be misinformed.
PeakVT
@cleek: That’s true, but having taggants would force that to happen, which would raise the barrier for making a gunpowder bomb. Some people might be deterred by the task, and others might blow themselves up in the process.
mcd410x
Digging around for writings on why we fear what we fear (in Monday’s wake obv.), I found this by Bruce Schneier. (Ok, really I just clicked through on the links in the Schneier’s Atlantic piece that Cole linked to).
Great read. In part, it tells how the media, esp. video, distorts the availability and vividness of an event. It’s how the “Truth” anti-cigarette ads did what 30 years of arguing the facts couldn’t. Businesses know this. Lawyers know this (or should!). … My big question is why the Democrats fail so badly in this arena. (My guess is we’re too busy with facts that don’t resonate — trying to win an argument that doesn’t exist).
Rob Lll
@Schlemizel:
Damn, how did you get inside my head? I’ve been pondering the resemblance between Gollum and the gun fondlers for a few weeks now. Them and their precioussss gunsssesss…
Some Guy
Let’s just call it like it is: The NRA is actively working to protect domestic terrorism as a technique because they want to reserve the right to a more successful rebellion if their members see fit to stage one. They are willing to tolerate the carnage wrought by terrorists they disagree with as the price of their ability to engage in domestic terrorism for what they find to be good reasons (like Obamacare, perhaps?).
Violent resistance and terrorism are not different things in concept, only point of view. The means are the same and the NRA wants to preserve the means for what it calls resistance but most non-delusional people call terrorism.
Heads up militant paranoids, there are no FEMA camps, no death panels, the UN isn’t taking over, Mexico isn’t plotting to take back the southwest, and a race war isn’t happening. Unless you decide to start one. Which is what makes you the enemy of state, not the savior or freedom.
Mnemosyne
@NonyNony:
After her editorial yesterday, I donated $50 to Gabby Giffords’ PAC this morning.
I like that she can get meetings on Capitol Hill and force those assholes to look her in the eye while they explain that they’re too pants-shittingly scared of the NRA to oppose them. And I really think that she and Mark Kelly are highly motivated to try and change things.
Villago Delenda Est
@PeakVT:
I’m not seeing a down side here…
Chet
@Emily:
Didn’t the Oklahoma City bombing use a fertilizer-diesel charge? What part of that is supposed to be “tagged”? The fertilizer isn’t explosive, it’s for crops. You know, that you might eat. Is the taggant safe to eat? Did you bother to ask?
Or the diesel fuel? Diesel isn’t explosive, just combustable under high pressure. It’s used in engines, and you breathe the exhaust. Is the taggant safe to breathe? Did you bother to ask?
Silly me, I guess. We’re only supposed to worry about crop safety in Monsanto threads and fossil fuels in global warming threads. But there’s no Monsanto or global warming in gun threads, only the NRA, so the Law of Unintended Consequences doesn’t apply, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chet: And yet the OKC bombing led to a discussion of taggants.
aretino
@PeakVT: Apart from the work and danger involved in manufacturing your own gunpowder, I don’t think you would be able to make it as powerful, given the grades of saltpeter and sulfur available to the general public.
Keith
And $20 says we still catch the guy.
Tonal Crow
Aaaand in today’s installment of “if we outlaw guns, people’ll just kill each other with hubcaps”:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/sleeping-woman-wounded-hayward-shooting/nXPCR/
A woman sleeping on a couch in a Hayward home suffered head and neck wounds early Wednesday when hubcap fragments ripped through a front window, authorities said.
Hayward police said the hubcapping took place around 12:30 a.m. in the area of Smalley Ave. and Flagg St.
The victim, a 24-year-old woman, was rushed to Eden Hospital where she underwent emergency surgery. Her condition was not known.
Witnesses told KTVU that a couple was engaged in a heated argument across the street from the home right before hubcap discharges were heard. Police would not speculate whether or not the argument triggered the hubcapfire.
Tonal Crow
Alright, time to move the needle by pushing for all the stuff Republicans hate:
1. Universal gun licensing, including one database, yearly background checks, and data exchange with all criminal justice systems — to be administered by a new division of the IRS (just because).
2. Universal gun liability insurance. I don’t know of a state where you can legally drive a car without liability insurance, but I also don’t know of any state that requires liability insurance for a gun. Are we morons?
3. Universal gun safety courses, at least once per year, administered by a certified instructor.
4. Ban public carry except (1) for law enforcement on duty, going to duty, or coming from duty; (2) for hunters with appropriate weapons in season only; (3) under exigent circumstances to be fully documented and inspected at least yearly for renewal or cancellation.
5. Limit magazine size to 6. That’s 6 times what a gun could rapidly fire when the 2nd Amendment was framed.
6. A proclamation upholding an individual constitutional right to own a gun — as part of one’s service in a militia, that is not only regulated, but “well-regulated”.
Nerull
Fun fact: Black Powder is a regulated explosive. Purchase of black powder requires an explosives permit, which requires background checks, storage considerations, regular ATF inspections, etc.
Unless you tell the seller you are buying it for a firearm. Then you don’t even have to sign any paperwork or show ID. You can even order large quantities of it online. You can thank the NRA for that.
(You’ve probably seen gunpowder on store shelves, but this is never actually black powder – it’s generally pyrodex or triple 7 or a similar compound. These are far less suitable for making a bomb. You have to ask for black powder, because the store has to keep it in a locked magazine.)
ruemara
@some guy: I think you’re conflating 2 things that had nothing to do with each other.
As far as, “BJ Center Right Fight Club”; damn, do you really want to out yourself as an idiot, right away? Just because people disagree with you, doesn’t make them center right.
Trollhattan
@Chet:
On cue: 1 dipshit with a lie, disguised as mere ignorance. Take it over to the playground, “Chet,” the grownups are talking.
OKC bomb included 350 pounds of Tovex Blastrite Gel “sausages”, triggered by commercial blasting caps.
LanceThruster
The World’s Greatest Deliberative Corpse
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
From the article you linked to:
As usual, Chet is an idiot. You’d think he’d be tired of exposing his ignorance by now, but apparently not.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Like I said, a liar disguising himself as an idiot. Well disguised, mind, but far more loathsome in intent. First parachuted in the day of Newtown, evidently enriched by the presence of tiny corpses.
Flatlander
I agree with the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers who want the citizens of the United States to take gun control measures to protect public safety. We don’t give a damn if hunters in Vermont shoot red herrings in the woods. Instead we care about murderers, straw buyers, madmen, and the corrupt bastards who use them to make a buck no matter how much it costs in human life.
We are held hostage by an anti-democratic organization, the NRA, which receives kickbacks from gun manufacturers whose interest is public fear of crime in order to sell more guns.
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1
This is not a social club, it’s an industry lobbying group. Their product is guns and their sales tools are murder and fear. They will go to any lengths necessary to preserve their profits. They will do anything necessary to prevent democracy and public safety, which might impact sales.
It is in their interest to make sure violent crime is the highest possible in order to sell more of their products, and they will oppose any measure that would reduce violent crime. To the end of increasing terror and reducing safety in the public, the NRA opposes any attempt to get illegal guns off the street or out of the hands of criminals, and all attempts to solve crimes committed with firearms or explosives.
One crime-solving technology that might have the Boston marathon bomber already in prison is the use of taggants in gunpowder. The Boston marathon bomber, however, knew the NRA has his back, as it does the back of any murderer or terrorist, and has prevented the use of taggants in gunpowder in this country.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-04-28/news/mn-59942_1_oklahoma-bombing
It’s time to call a spade a spade. The NRA is a terrorist organization, as surely as if Wayne La Pierre had set the bombs in Boston himself. They were probably high-fiving each other in the boardrooms as they saw sales go up again. If you ally yourself with them, you are supporting terrorism as surely as if you donated money to Al Qaeda. Congrats. Wash your hands all you like, the blood’s not coming off.
pluege
wayne lapierre, the rest of the NRA hierarchy, and the cretins that swallow what they’re selling are the best examples going of why our mental health needs vast improvement.
now the gun and ammo manufacturers, they’re not insane like the stooges they buy at the NRA; they’re cold, calculated subhumanoid vermin that will do anything, literally anything for a buck.
Gravenstone
@Nerull: Um, Pyrodex works just spiffy for explosive devices. Or at least my misspent youth has called to inform me thus. Plus, its a damn sight safer to handle than black powder.
cleek
@aretino:
maybe not “as powerful”, but powerful enough.
my uncle and i made a lot of powerful-enough powder, back in the day. powerful enough to put a homemade 1/2″ lead ball through a 3/4″ piece of plywood, then 200′ down the back yard when shot out of our homemade cannon (aka, piece of steel pipe).
taint TNT. but it’d do the job.
Howard Beale IV
Your NRA at work-supporting the rights of terrorists, foreign and domestic.
Glocksman
Leaving aside the more paranoid fears of taggants leading to gun bans, etc., the one argument against it that seems to make sense to me is that adding taggants changes the burning rate of the powder.
This wouldn’t affect commercial ammo manufacturers because they test each lot of powder for burning characteristics and adjust the amount used accordingly.
For the home reloader using AA#5 or Unique and a 20 year old Speer reloading manual to load his .357 rounds, changing the burning rate of the powder could either make the round less powerful or raise pressure to the point that the gun blows up.
I haven’t reloaded ammo in over a decade and don’t follow the issue though, so I couldn’t tell you if it’s a valid worry or just more FUD spread by the NRA.
Omnes Omnibus
@Glocksman: I would bet that a taggant would have a consistent effect such that one could simply adjust the amount of powder to compensate.
Glocksman
That would probably work, but the problem with adjusting powder volume is that there would be millions of reloading manuals still out there with the pre-taggant charge weights.
Sure as hell some idiot would ignore the blatant warnings against doing so on the tagged powder cans and use the old data, instead of buying a new manual with adjusted charge weights that compensate for the taggants.
Taggants are a good idea and if the safety issues can be (or already have been) worked out, then I’m all for it.
RaflW
Here’s the key list for funding Dems in the next Senate races: no-voting Republicans from swing or Democratic-leaning states include Rob Portman in Ohio, Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire, Dean Heller in Nevada and Ron Johnson in Wisconsin.
Chet
@Trollhattan: The bomb was more than 5,000 pounds of fertilizer and diesel fuel. Every source agrees. The Tovex was a detonator, not the charge.
And sorry, no, I didn’t “show up” for Newton. Been posting here for two years, stupid.
Chet
@Omnes Omnibus: Right, and the discussion was that taggants make explosives unstable and unsafe.
OmerosPeanut
@arguingwithsignposts: Good lobbyists are motivated by money. There’s a lot more money in helping entrenched interests preserve their power.
Lucas Beachell
Jack, thanks for your comment. I have used the exact same glycerin with no ill effects. That said, I would feel a lot better using glycerin sold by one of our suppliers that is expressly sold for vaping. As for using it straight up, you can definitely do it, but the results will probably be pretty poor. First off, glycering at 100% is going to be very thick. Secondly, throat hit is going to be virtually non-existant, because of the lack of PG and nicotine. Give it a try, but don’t expect too much from it.