I’m watching the Krugman-Scarborough debate and I don’t have a huge problem with how Scarborough is arguing overall. He’s admitting short-term deficit is not a huge problem. His anti-stimulus shpiel is bullshit and he’s lying about Republicans’ position on fiscal policy, but at least he’s not talking about bond vigilantes.
But…I’ll just say this, Charlie Rose showed a “deficit clock” and is consistently taking Scarborough’s side.
When is this fucker’s liver going to give out?
Update. Scarborough just started talking about bond vigilantes.
Mark S.
Yeah, I’m starting to wonder if he’s going to make it out of Austin.
Omnes Omnibus
I can’t face Charlie Rose today. Fucker saps my will to live.
Short Bus Bully
Krugman already complained on TPM that he sucked arguing against Joe Scar. I’m still lost to explain how someone of Krugman’s intellectual weight and obvious knowledge could get surprised in any way by GOP talking point bullshit.
Default answer should be: “Well, that’s wrong and when you look at reality this is what’s actually happening…”
Done and done.
Hunter Gathers
Why is Krugthulu wasting his time on dumb shit like this? I keep getting told he’s smarter than this. Only an idiot walks into a debate with a pre-determined outcome. There’s only one topic and one topic only that should discussed when debating Joe The Scar – How many dead interns does it take to get you to quit Congress?
Hunter Gathers
Shorter Joe The Scar – Rich White Men Will Kill Us All.
Comrade Mary
@Short Bus Bully: Well, maybe he has a little more empathy now for Obama’s performance in the first debate last fall. I think he did call it his “Denver moment”, didn’t he?
General Stuck
Just read Keller’s champaign buzzed missive. I hate fuckers like him more than any republican. Luckily, as Keller himself admits, the country is paying attention and putting the blame squarely where it belongs. The republican guardians of the rich assholes like Keller.
Hill Dweller
Woodward, Fournier, Rose, Bill Keller, Squint, etc. are all doing the plutocrats’ bidding. They know if Obama wins this fight, he will close all their loopholes and tax shelters, costing them a shitload of money.
jl
As I said in a previous thread, KThug is actually quite polite and mild mannered as economists go. But I think that is why he is the only ‘liberal’ economist who is allowed to get near the precious media diva oafs.
I would have liked to see James Galbraith, Alan Blinder or even old Robert Solow go after Morning Jthug. Even Stiglitz, if Mornin’ Joe could withstand being chuckled at and constantly lectured throughout.
After the first Romney-Obama debate, it is easy to see how an ignorant BSer can win one of these debates if the BSer is ruthless and arrogant enough, and has memorized enough talking points and random stats and can talk loud and fast. Especially with a Charlie Rose moderating.
James E. Powell
I never watch Charlie Rose, but I still suffer from his courtier par excellence act because every single tote-bagger I know considers him to be an intellectual giant in the same class as Friedman.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a couple people have already linked to this, the Squint has cited Krugthulu’s Princeton colleague Alan Binder as an ally against Krugman
Morning Joe’s accuracy deficit
By Alan Binder
pretty good, though it includes this startling but probably, depressingly, true phrase
eemom
My dreams have withered and died.
Also too, Stony Ground, off his new album, rawks.
jl
And actually, I see Galbraith, Blinder and Stiglitz on the wretched business cable channels (When I watch the youtube clips when I want to see what these economists are saying lately). I do not remember ever seeing them on the major cable or network channels.
I figure, no matter how awful some of the business channel reporters and anchors are (or maybe are not so dense, but just do the required schtick for the cameras), they have at least enough brain cells to process what their guests have to say.
The hideous media celebs like Jthug and Rose are not up to anything like that. They have repetition and huffing mastered though.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I have seen Alan Blinder in action arguing with people. Dude, Rose and Jthug would be smoking ruins by the end of the show, probably would never be aired.
Edit: ‘Jthug’ is my new unironic nickname for Mornin’ Joe.
piratedan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: TY Jim, that was a nice succinct read where R’s cherry pick what they want and misrepresent it. These guys are fiscal hawks ONLY when Dems are in power as evidenced by the credit card wars and their homeland security guns warehouse idea of making America one step closer to a Fascist state. All they need are some spiffy boots and they’re ready to roll.
Argo
@Hill Dweller: Here, its all I got for that statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUW1SGF7bR8
jl
I do not see why Krugman would make such a blunder as implying he lost or did not do well in any way. Silly thing to do.
Miserable scum like the media celebs and the GOP thugs will take that as an admission of defeat and use it against him.
I do not understand that Krugman post at all. He must have been rattled. But why did he not see the tactics Jthug would use. He is the media celeb oaf who most reminds me of Romney.
Edit: Why not wait for the public and media goofball reaction, and just fight back?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@piratedan: the word seems to have gone out on the left that we need to start making the point that the R’s don’t really care about “the Deficit”, they want to shred the social safety net and protect the rich because of their weird and cruel social Darwinist ideas about poverty being a moral condition
I even heard somebody on TV refer to Cheney’s “deficits don’t matter” today
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
So basically the fix is in, and the media will not brook any argument that doesn’t totally and utterly lay the shit sandwich sequester and inability to get any deal done at Obama’s feet? How surprising.
The shitty thing is it’s going to work just enough to get votes toward ’14 and ensure the Stockholm’s Syndrome Dems in Congress get a shitball passed so we can have this fight again in 3 months.
Omnes Omnibus
Bond vigilantes? That is so 2011.
handsmile
That old chestnut about dogs and fleas came to mind when I first read that Krugman would be entering this particular kennel tonight. At Krgthulu’s own blog, a number of commenters were dismayed that he would even agree to legitimize a buffoon like Scarborough by appearing with him to address matters of economic/fiscal policy. The Morning Joe frat party should be even more unbearable than usual after this.
I’ve been away the past few days: was there any thread discussion about Scarborough’s fatuous NYT op-ed column on Saturday? With that and his appearance at Rose’s gasworks tonight, this blowhard must have a book about to spew forth.
@eemom:
Never knew you for a fan of the sublime Mr. Thompson. To be sure, this cruel country is driving us all down.
jl
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: You are too glum. The corporate media divas are already concerned that they can’t pass on the transparent GOP BS without appearing idiotic to their audience. And Obama’s position has majority public support.
The GOP is getting ready to attempt another rewrite history with a transparent bright yellow magic markers again, and coming up is a potential government shutdown.
So, we may be in for another, rare McCain/Palin late 2008 election media moment. At least, I hope so.
Hill Dweller
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: The AP ran a story lamenting the plight of rich people.
One positive of the sequester nonsense is every time the courtiers push their bullshit articles, a lot of smart, high profile bloggers(Klein, Chait, Benen, Sargent, etc.) smack them down with facts.
Redshirt
Joe Scar squints cuz of the blinding awesomeness of freedom.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@jl:
The problem is the assumption that the audience is actual news-consuming citizens and not the Washington insiders who just know in their heart of hearts that austerity now, austerity forever is the way to go, with just enough to muddy the waters and convince a few mooks to vote in ’14 on the assumption that the Dems are dirty Socialibs.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Redshirt: To me he always looks like he’s been sucking on a lemon, or just smelled a fart or something.
piratedan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: agree, these guys are all about having no qualms whatsoever sending the grunts to go and salve their wounded pride and perceived insults. A damned shame that they’ve found common cause with the holier than thou brigade which supplies them with votes and a steady supply of cannon fodder to sacrifice to “preserve their way of life”.
Hill Dweller
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I actually think the sequester drama is teaching the public a hard, but valuable, lesson about government spending and austerity.
jl
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: We disagree there too. Another reason to have hope that the corporate media celebs may start calling BS on the GOP is that with the sequester, social security and medicare are not touched.
Obama is offering a (IMHO bad) grand bargain that would include those social insurance programs. And you know how money bag media news actors love cutting those.
Of course, Obama is not offering any cuts anything like sadistic ignoramuses like Mornin’ Joe or Rose would want, but they have no clue what is going on.
They just know that if the GOP would engage with Obama, social security and medicare would be on the table in some way, And now it is not.
Not sure this is planned out eleventy D chess by WH, but I sense frustration among the big media shots that we are just so close to stealing poor people’s money, for their own good, of course. And we just can’t get there and take their money so rich money bags on TV can feel all noble and good.
Cassidy
@Hill Dweller: I just got asked, today, which day I’d like to be furloughed on without pay. Having been on welfare before, I don’t need any lessons.
danielx
@James E. Powell:
Oh, now, that’s cold. I’ve never yet heard Charlie come out with anything equivalent to the famous “suck on this” statement. Friedman’s been wrong more often than Bloody Bill Kristol and still graces the Times, which falls under the category of unsolvable mysteries.
waynski
Conservatives NEVER make an honest argument. They begin with a torrent of conflation, logical fallacy and projection, interrupting the other party constantly and then crying foul or talking over you when you attempt to interrupt them is another tactic. If they get in trouble they either make ad hominem attacks, change the subject or make stuff up. Finally, especially in a timed setting they’ll filibuster as Joe did and complain about not getting enough time.
Rose was clearly taking sides with his TV/Village counterpart, but I think the reason Krugthulu subjects himself to this is he actually does care about getting the message out and pushing back on these guys. I’m guessing he trusted Rose to keep things fair and that now Rose is dead to him.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Hill Dweller:
@jl:
Sorry if I’m being a pessimist, but I’ve seen far to many times where the GOP loses only to win anyways because they play scorched earth, backed by utter domination on the state level, for which they never get the blame they should be accorded because ‘both sides same thing, but Dems are always worse’.
Hill Dweller
@jl: If a deal isn’t reached soon, I think the public will start putting pressure on congress to just end the sequester without any sort of deal.
The media is detailing daily all the horrors the sequester will bring. People are anxious, and want it to end swiftly.
Rep. Conyers is trying to get a bill going in the House to just end the sequester. Depending on the timing and public pressure, it could work.
I hope the President continues pointing out austerity is actually counter-productive at this point, and ultimately hampers our ability to reduce the deficit.
jl
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: You might be right, though. We will see. The media has to balance their worship of balance, paying respects as craven hacks to their corporate masters and buddies, and not losing audience due to looking like pathetic idiots or corrupt a-holes when the GOP spews lies.
I think that becomes a fine balance at times, though usually the first two considerations win out.
David Koch
Has Scar killed any interns tonight?
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: Sorry. You picked a Monday or Friday, right?
TheMightyTrowel
Some music for you bitter twisted late night commenters….
the new single by Australian ska/jazz/?? group The Cat Empire: Brighter than gold.
If you’re not dancing when you play this your soul is even more shriveled and blackened than I thought.
Omnes Omnibus
@TheMightyTrowel: Excellent, I needed something like this tonight. I take back many of the bad things I said about you.
Meg
I can’t watch Charlie Rose. This is the guy who was sad that President Obama is not taking Dick Chenny’s advises on foreign policies. What a tool.
TheMightyTrowel
@Omnes Omnibus: Excellent! My three-courses-and-150-students-this-semester-swiss-cheese-memory holds no record of you ever saying anything particularly awful to/about me so I’ll mark you down in the positive column.
My deepest condolences for what you’re going through with your family – it’s so hard when a relative is ill, and I hope you have a good support structure there giving you hugs and/or beer when necessary.
Omnes Omnibus
@TheMightyTrowel: Thanks, I appreciate the sentiments. I don’t want to clog this thread up with mawkishness as well though.
TheMightyTrowel
@Omnes Omnibus: No worries. How about more music?
handsmile
@TheMightyTrowel:
Definitely off-topic, but reading tonight through recent threads, I came upon your comment on a course you are now preparing on representations of archeology/archeologists in film and literature. Thought you might be interested in this Guardian article today on the “re-invention” of your colleague Lara Croft:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/mar/04/lara-croft-reinvention-of-sex-symbol
And I can’t help but imagine that your students would by edified by this classic of the genre, “She” (1965):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059710/
Jay C
OT, but another right-wing ” scandal ” seems to have ignominiously collapsed: after various outlets ( mainly The Daily Caller) have been pimpimg a sex scandal against Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ) for months, claiming he had patronized “underage prostitutes” in the Dominican Republic with a donor pal. One of his supposed “escorts” has come forward to state that she had not only never met Menendez, but had been paid to read a scripted “deposition” by a local lawyer.
Sorry, can’t link from my tablet…
Wonder how long we’ll have to wait for a retraction…..?
Omnes Omnibus
@handsmile: Christ, I remember reading H. Rider Haggard’s novel when I was a kid.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay C:
::crickets::
aangus
@Jay C:
Linkee,
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/04/alleged-escort-in-daily-caller-video-i-was-paid-to-make-claims-against-democratic-senator/
Yutsano
@Cassidy: Management has decided they will pick our furlough days. Which means no one will get Monday or Friday. And apparently I was incorrect about the rolling furloughs: we all get the same day off. WHEE!!
Suffern ACE
@Yutsano: @Yutsano: I’ve never liked working on Thursdays. So if I was going to have a pay cut, I’d probably choose Thursday as my unpaid day.
John
@James E. Powell:
Come on, nobody actually thinks Thomas Friedman is an intellectual giant, do they? I guess I can just barely see someone thinking he is a wise and knowledgeable man who has interesting ideas, or something, but an intellectual giant? Nobody really thinks that, right? Friedman is a writer who, like Bob Woodward, lays his intellectual inadequacies right out there for everyone to see. It boggles the mind that anyone might take him for an intellectual giant.
Anne Laurie
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
It’s the epicanthic fold, which at one point cultural anthropologists also called a ‘nordic fold’ when they were talking about tracing the Vikings. Tragically common among those of Irish descent, even people like Pierce Brosnan and George Clooney who are generally considered attractive. Of course, their eyes aren’t quite as close-set as JScar’s who therefore looks squintly as well as beady-eyed.
Jewish Steel
Calvary Cross for Charlie? Or maybe Wall Of Death?
Triumph
I will never understand how Krugthulhu didn’t murder everyone on set when Charlie Rose told him “Here’s 3 things Obama should do that would make us think he’s a strong daddy according to TOM FRIEDMAN.”
I literally had to leave the room and scream out my back door when that happened. Good thing I live in the sticks.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Anne Laurie: I never, ever would have noticed that on either Brosnan or Clooney if you had not pointed it out. I think there’s more to it than that with Scarborough, he has this weird pinched expression in his whole face.
Also, as a first-born-in-the US Irish-American, you made me go look in the mirror, and I see that I do not have that fold. Not having it doesn’t make me look any more attractive :-).
TheMightyTrowel
@handsmile: Thanks for the article. FSM bless the grauniad. As to She… of course!
dance around in your bones
Well, if George Clooney has an epicanthic fold, I want one, too. Then we could have beautiful babies together. Of course the fun part would be making them :)
@TheMightyTrowel: Mighty nice music.
mgdixon
I’ll be a pal and tell you what’s in store, there’s nothing at the end of the rainbow – nothing growing up for anymore..
Glad to see some fans of RT on the site!
Moses free my people again, we’re all working for the Pharoah.
Anne Laurie
@The prophet Nostradumbass: If you did, you’d already know. Especially if you’ve ever tried to put on eye makeup.
The Kennedys shared that gene around, too — it’s one of the reasons Caroline looks so much like her father, poor woman.
Rogers
If Rose is the “moderator” it’s actually a 2 on 1 beatdown. He’s another of the totebagger “liberals” that have proven their worth to the top 1% Lo these many years. “Socially liberal but fiscally conservative” which translates as Keynesian Denialist and clueless tool of the Kochs.
cmorenc
@John:
Um…you missed that Mr. Powell was being enormously sarcastic in his reference to Friedman – actually, it was meant in context as a huge put-down to Charlie Rose and every tote-bagger who thinks Rose is an intellectual.
chris
Between the lyric reference post titles and the bear baiting conservatrolling, Doug is my fav front page poster.
Since you used Richard Thompson here, gonna point out that I just saw him perform in a room of about 100 people (for tv), and it was shit hot.
amk
@handsmile:
bingo. pig, fight, dirty and all that.
Svensker
@chris:
Srsly? Dang.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Krugman needs to read about the history of the creationists verses science. It is easy to win a debate when one side is stuck telling the truth in a professional manner and the other side is a lying carny huckster. Debates are just the ultimate expression of Brodorism.
MomSense
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
People listen because most of us are hoping to confirm our own biases. We self select the news sources, pundits, and politicians who agree with us. I do a lot of campaigning both for issues and candidates and this poses a huge challenge when trying to persuade voters. I spend way too much time figuring out how to explain things so that they resonate with a value–because facts are often not persuasive.
People believe things about climate change, economics, “entitlements”, national security-science, data and evidence be damned.
I am not surprised that people listen to Scarborough-and that Kthug was frustrated trying to debate with him. It is really hard to refute beliefs.
bemused
Our local PBS channel doesn’t carry Charlie Rose so I am hoping to find the whole show today instead of seeing it in clips that are up this morning.
schrodinger's cat
@James E. Powell: Damning with faint praise, you are doing it right.
Howlin Wolfe
@waynski: That’s why I wish more people would go Keith Ellison on the village clowns. Let them know people are pissed off at them for their role in the trainwreck.
shortstop
@chris: Nice! I loved the show he did in, of all places, the tiny Welles Park in Chicago in the summer of…2000? 2001? He warmed up for Patti Smith. Some night.
xenophile
@Jewish Steel: Nahhhh. Hard Luck Stories, donchathink? Everyone don’t like something, and we … ;-)