A reader of Rick Hasen’s Election Law Blog sent this in and it’s fascinating in light of the Pennsylvania voting restrictions that in my opinion were specifically and carefully designed to target Philadelphia voters. Any emphasis in a particular portion of the piece is mine, and was not in the original:
Judge Simpson relies heavily on Paterson v. Barlow, 60 Pa. 54, an 1869 case, and on Winston, a 1914 case that adopted Paterson’s standard. The tagline that everyone remembers from Paterson is its “plain, palpable, and clear abuse” standard of review of registration laws.
What people don’t know is that the opinion settling on that standard is a display of xenophobia and agrarian prejudice as startling as any you’ll find in an American reported decision.
At issue in Paterson was a law patently designed to disenfranchise Philadelphians; among other things, it struck anyone who boarded at a hotel, tavern or sailors’ boarding house from the rolls, and only let them back in if they could supply affidavits from two homeowners in their voting district.
But better yet, that rule, on the face of the statute, only applied to Philadelphia, along with a host of others. The court held that this differential treatment between Philadelphia and the rest of the state was constitutional because Philadelphians, simply, were bad people:
”Where population greatly abounds vice and virtue have their greatest extremes. A simple rural population needs no night police, and no lock-up. Rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors’ boarding-houses, and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes of imported bullies and vagabonds, and to cast them multiplied upon the polls as voters. In large cities such things exist, and its proper population therefore needs greater protection, and local legislation must come to their relief. The freedom and equality of the ballot-box must be protected from the local causes which mar and destroy a free and equal election.” 60 Pa. at 78.
Later:The court then goes on to speculate that without disenfranchising people who stay at hotels, the good householders of Philadelphia could go to the polls only to end up dead:
”How then can the freedom and equality of election be secured in a great city if from the force of local circumstances the places of the real electors are usurped, if the ballot-box can be stuffed with impunity, or if suffrage can be exercised only at the risk of violence or life?”
This passage is especially colorful, with its imagery of urban voters “floating upon the rivers” like some sort of vermin or pestilential insect:
“Where the population of a locality is constantly changing, and men are often unknown to their next-door neighbors; where a large number is floating upon the rivers and the sea, going and returning and incapable of identification; where low inns, restaurants and boarding-houses constantly afford the means of fraudulent additions to the lists of voters, what rule of sound reason or of constitutional law forbids the legislature from providing a means to distinguish the honest people of Philadelphia from the rogues and vagabonds who would usurp their places and rob them of their rights? I cannot understand the reasoning which would deny to the legislature this essential power to define the evidence which is necessary to distinguish the false from the true.”
Here is a link to an amicus brief submitted by a Tea Party member supporting the restrictions on voting. In it, the Tea Party person argues basically the same thing: people in Philadelphia are just bad people.
Mark S.
Wow, doesn’t the 14th Amendment trump some decision made by hillbillies in 1869?
Lee
There has to be a federal challenge (or at least injunction) to this decision.
According to sane people isn’t that the whole point of the federal government?
Steve
From Hasen’s writeup, I gathered the main reason for the court’s ruling is that the ACLU plaintiffs didn’t need an injunction, because even if they couldn’t get an ID, they could just get an absentee ballot by lying on their application and probably no one would check up on them.
Can that possibly be what the court said?
maurinsky
It’s kind of horribly ironic that America has become less free since Obama was elected….if only because his opponents are bound and determined to make it so.
maurinsky
It’s kind of horribly ironic that America has become less free since Obama was elected….if only because his opponents are bound and determined to make it so.
maurinsky
It’s kind of horribly ironic that America has become less free since Obama was elected….if only because his opponents are bound and determined to make it so.
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
@Mark S.:
But those hillbillies were REAL ‘MURICANS! Unlike those goddamned
DemocratsBlah peoplePhiladelphians.maurinsky
It’s kind of horribly ironic that America has become less free since Obama was elected….if only because his opponents are bound and determined to make it so.
maurinsky
It’s kind of horribly ironic that America has become less free since Obama was elected….if only because his opponents are bound and determined to make it so.
Steve
@Lee: Lots of people assured me in an earlier thread that there is nothing the federal government can do here because a different voter ID law was upheld somewhere else in the country, and Pennsylvania is not a Section 5 covered jurisdiction. However, news sources tell me the DOJ opened a formal investigation into Pennsylvania’s law last month and hasn’t announced the outcome yet. So I’m going to respectfully disagree with those people and say it’s entirely possible for the DOJ to take action.
beth
So when do we start seeing the laws requiring voters to present themselves and a photo ID at some government office in order to secure an absentee ballot? How did the Republicans miss taking care of this or is it on the schedule to be passed two weeks before the election?
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
@Mark S.:
But those hillbillies were REAL ‘MURICANS! Unlike those goddamned
DemocratsBlah peoplePhiladelphians.The Moar You Know
Substitute every pejorative in the cited ruling with “Negroes” and I think I see how the judge got to his decision.
Villago Delenda Est
“They’re just bad people”.
The teatard vermin would scream like banshees if the tables were reversed.
Which they should be.
We learned in WWII how to deal with people like the teatards.
Kay
@Steve:
Honestly, I read it as the judge wasn’t worried about elderly voters because they can honestly qualify for an absentee ballot. He then dismissed the elderly voter issue, because although LOTS and LOTS of elderly voters LIKE to vote on election day, he doesn’t care.
As a pollworker, I would disagree strongly with him. Some elderly voters really, really enjoy coming out (those who do) partly because it’s a tradition for them but partly because it has social aspects, they’re participating with their neighbors, etc. There’s no reason to take that from them.
Lying to obtain an absentee ballot is probably a fairly serious offense. I hope the work-around to this mess of a law isn’t “lie to get an absentee ballot”.
and and and
i love the patchwork of reliable sources pulled together for that very compelling amicus brief.
Villago Delenda Est
“They’re just bad people”.
The teatard vermin would scream like banshees if the tables were reversed.
Which they should be.
We learned in WWII how to deal with people like the teatards.
Villago Delenda Est
“They’re just bad people”.
The teatard vermin would scream like banshees if the tables were reversed.
Which they should be.
We learned in WWII how to deal with people like the teatards.
Frankensteinbeck
The question is, is this settled law upheld by future rulings, or has Simpson done the equivalent of digging up an old witchcraft law? Will an appeals judge go ‘You seriously quoted Paterson vs. Barlow? What are you smoking?’ or go ‘Yeah, that’s the law as it exists. It really sucks.’?
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
@Mark S.:
But those hillbillies were REAL ‘MURICANS! Unlike those goddamned
DemocratsBlah peoplePhiladelphians.Kay
@Steve:
It’s just from what I’ve read, section 2 of the VRA (what they would be relying on) doesn’t have a whole lot of law associated with voting. It’s been used in redistricting. So that’s why people are wary of a success relying on Section 2. There isn’t a lot of law on this issue.
Villago Delenda Est
“They’re just bad people”.
The teatard vermin would scream like banshees if the tables were reversed.
Which they should be.
We learned in WWII how to deal with people like the teatards.
Villago Delenda Est
“They’re just bad people”.
The teatard vermin would scream like banshees if the tables were reversed.
Which they should be.
We learned in WWII how to deal with people like the teatards.
maya
W.C. Fields once said that he spent a week in Philadelphia one night, so there’s that too that was tossed into the judge’s opinion stew.
opie_jeanne
Brian Williams had the stones to tell Jon Stewart that this disenfranchisement by states like Ohio and Pennsylvania only affects 12 counties in the entire country. Only 12 counties, Jon.
He neglected to mention that those 12 counties take in the majority of voters in some of those states.
It’s near the end of this clip, at the 6:02 point after Stewart points out that the Republicans are trying to keep people from voting:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-15-2012/brian-williams
dr. bloor
Time for a Full Court Press by the good guys to make sure that the Pennsylvania Supremes know they will be defined by this nonsense forever if they don’t overturn Judge Homer Simpson’s decision. Can’t find the link, but apparently there’s one Republican with some semblance of a conscience who might be reluctant to let it stand.
spongeworthy
I agree that there is a rogue’s gallery of anecdotes in that amicus brief. I see no indication the judge relied on it for much though.
Does it ever occur to anybody here that voter ID wouldn’t even be discussed if voters trusted elections? Over 70% of voters favor ID–that’s pretty definitive. How can we encourage people to vote if they do not trust the process?
Quarks
In years of voting in urban areas, I never saw a single strumpet at the polls. I feel cheated.
kd bart
“Philadelphians are bad people”
Have you ever sat near one at a ball game? If you had, you would agree with this statement.
Bulworth
But Biden said something about ‘chains’ so it’s all equal. Both sides do it.
Davis X. Machina
VRA Section 5 pre-clearance involves not just redistricting, but any attempt to change “any voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure with respect to voting…” in any covered jurisdiction.
It’s been used more often to challenge redistricting schemes, but that’s a historical accident.
Culture of Truth
I notice that tea partier went full birther.
opie_jeanne
@kd bart: My youngest was engaged to one and we liked him and his family. We didn’t like being around them when there was a hockey game, though.
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
I know, but we’re not talking about Section 5. PA isn’t a pre-clearance state or area.
ericblair
@beth:
We won’t, because the goopers consider that a reliable vehicle for gooper voters. Of course it’s far more open to abuse, especially by people with multiple properties, but those people tend to skew gooper so it’s all good.
It is a worthwhile argument to make to show how hypocritical the right is being about voting. Sort of like triple-locking the upstairs window while leaving the back door open.
Hungry Joe
“Then there was the educated Texan from Texas who looked like someone in Technicolor and felt, patriotically, that people of means — decent folk — should be given more votes than drifters, whores, criminals, degenerates, atheists and indecent folk — people without means.”
— Joseph Heller, “Catch-22”
Davis X. Machina
@Kay: The question up-thread was whether Section 5 was specifically a tool to use just against racial gerrymandering…
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@spongeworthy:
Ah, yes, the Republicans’ favorite strategy: work for years to destroy the citizens’ trust in the government, and then smugly claim that we have to follow Republican solutions to the problem that Republicans created because now people don’t trust “the government.”
How very convenient for you guys. “Sure, we broke it, but we’re the only ones who can fix it!”
The Dangerman
While I agree the Pennsylvania law is horseshit…
…that State, if I recall correctly, isn’t within the margin of cheating/stealing. Romney ceased spending in PA.
The law sucks road apples, but I don’t see it flipping the state. The law needs to be reversed/struck, but there are bigger battles out there.
Bob
@opie_jeanne: I had the same initial reaction while watching but shortly realized that Williams had moved on to a new talking point that just 12 counties control the outcome of the election, and he wasn’t referring to voter suppression.
Lee
@The Dangerman:
While it probably won’t matter on the Presidential ballot, what we know now is that the control of the state government is also very important.
Punchy
Speaking of bad people, looks like Dave has had just a bit too much coke in those nostrils.
It seems Obama staged the Aurora and Wisky shootings. I wish I were joking.
Carl Nyberg
I’ll add my voice to the chorus that says this seems to run afoul the 14th Amendment.
And using 19th Century and hundred-year old cases to decide voting rights matters seems inherently suspect.
It’s pretty suspect to rely upon cases that old in most areas. There has to be a pretty compelling reason why a court relies heavily on cases that old on any matter.
spongeworthy
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): If voters have lost confidence in government, that can only make for smarter voters. Do a better job!
But we’re talking about elections, not government. So if you have no faith in government and you don’t trust elections to be honest, what would cause you to go vote?
From the comments here, it doesn’t look to me like any of you are willing to take any responsibility for the voters’ lack of faith in honest elections. That’s like me screaming that nobody wants to invade Syria over their WMD’s.
The Dangerman
@Lee:
No disagreement; I’m just saying there’s bigger battles out there.
1badbaba3
No way in hayull Obama and Holder let this kind of shite stand. For obvious reasons, of course.
Carnacki
I mean, if it referred specifically to Philadelphia Eagles fans I’d say they had a valid point about them being bad people.
Villago Delenda Est
Well, FYWP has gone full scale teatard on us. The feedback I got on my multiple post (submitted once, mind you) was “error establishing database connection”.
Something is seriously wrong here.
West of the Cascades
@The Dangerman: This is good to hear … it would be deliciously ironic if imposing this law leads to a more enthusiastic (and angry) Democratic electorate and higher Democratic turnout, despite the more restrictive ID requirement.
japa21
@spongeworthy: I am not going to take responsibility for the voters’ lack of faith in the honesty of elections. It isn’t the Dems that have caused that lack of faith, it is the Republicans constantly screaming about voter fraud when there isn’t any.
The real reason for there to be lack of faith is the way votes are tabulated, on machines which can be easily hacked and which leave no paper trail. The Dems have tried to deal with this but 1) the media doesn’t mention it and 2) the Republicans don’t want to talk about it because they are the ones that own the voting machines.
1badbaba3
@Villago Delenda Est: Yes, lots of multiples. Who, I say, who is that in Cole’s kitchen? I, of course, blame Obama.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@spongeworthy:
I know, it’s so weird that Democrats won’t take responsibility for the lies that Republicans spew, like when that Republican official in North Carolina claimed that he had proof of “thousands” of fraudulent votes cast but only managed to provide documentation for one “fraudulent” vote, which turned out not to be fraudulent at all (he claimed the voter was dead when the guy was very much alive).
When, oh when will Democrats admit they’re responsible for the lies that Republicans tell?
Svensker
@spongeworthy:
It comes from a barrage of propaganda over the years from the Right Wing Noise Machine that has successfully entered the zeitgeist. How should I take responsibility for that?
The Other Chuck
How hard is it to just keep a md5 hash of article content then when a post is submitted, reject it if the hash is the same. This is just basic shit any software should be able to do. Fucking computers, how do they work? The wordpress people are at least as damaged in the head as the PHP folks.
Oh and at work, I have the great fun of blocking pretty much every wordpress site that allows image attachments because they’re spam and malware vectors (wordpress doesn’t even check the fucking content).
SatanicPanic
@Punchy: It’s too bad for Lars Ulrich that more people don’t remember Dave Mustaine used to be in Metallica. Lars looks less douchy by comparison.
Steve
@spongeworthy: Many states have voter ID requirements. Do you have any evidence that elections in those states are more trusted as a result? I know lots of people who spin crazy conspiracy theories about elections, but I have yet to find one person who says “now that voter ID is required, I feel I can trust the elections now.” If they’re convinced the other side is up to shenanigans, they’ll be convinced no matter what.
Meanwhile, legal voters aren’t able to vote because we tried in vain to assuage these people’s phantom fears.
Davis X. Machina
@The Other Chuck:
This very site, IIRC, used to have such a dupe trap — a beige screen with a white box that said ‘Oops — it looks like you already made this comment’.
noabsolutes
I don’t even actually care if the voter disenfranchisement scheme fails and PA goes for Obama anyway; voting is a constitutional right. We fought a war over it. It should be easier than getting a driver’s license, or a mortgage, or a job, or a membership at a video store. It’s an absolute necessity for our form of government (which of course Republicans are against).
The amicus brief by that nutso is really incredible. It basically just says flat-out, Democrats are bad, John McCain was too scared to be racist enough or else he could have won PA, and black people are somehow fraudulently voting Democratic in vast numbers… which is weird because I thought black people were allowed to vote. The entire point is that the writer thinks black people voting deprives white people of their power to decide who wins elections. Seriously.
kuvasz
In 1968, there was a skit on the old Laugh-In show that started with several people standing in line to vote. When the person came to the front of the line opposite a white man sitting at a table this man asked them a question, to which if answered correctlty the person was allowed to cast a vote.
The first several people in line were white and the questions that they were asked were simple, innocuous interogatives easily answered by an adult, viz., what is 2 plus 2, define the word rain, etc., when a black man (played by Sammie Davis Jr.) arrived at the table, the questioning man looked him up and down and stated that he was going to ask him a question, which if answered correctly would allow him to vote…… the man then said
“tell me what “aurora borealis” means?”
Davis turned to the camera and said, “it means I don’t get to vote!”
cmorenc
@beth:
The reasons the GOP hasn’t (yet) tried to extend voter ID to obtaining absentee ballots are:
1) at least until recently, doing so would adversely impact their own base voters as much or more often than the dem base;
2) the target classes of people disproportionately without the specified forms of picture id have, in the past, been disproportionately less likely to use absentee ballots.
If heavily democratic groups do start to use absentee ballots as an end-run around voter id, watch for GOP legislatures to attempt to come up with additional requirements that are disproportionately easy for their base to satisfy. For example, people whose names on real property tax rolls are exempt from having to go down to the board of elections to show id, and so on.
peach flavored shampoo
@Punchy: I’ll call your entertainment butthurt and raise you a Kelsey Grammer.
Such the POS.
Valdivia
a little OT but I can’t stop laughing
Romney brought out a whiteboard to make it seem his lies are all wonky and shit. They are really going to go with this pantomime that they are ‘serious’ while lying their asses off and saying nothing substantive.
Steve
@kuvasz: My wife told me she tried to take the Arkansas literacy test that they supposedly gave to black would-be voters back in the day. She says she didn’t do very well.
scav
@Valdivia: ooooooooo. Mark of the PowerPoint MBA Voodoo. . . . . .
Hill Dweller
I just want to reiterate the Commonwealth’s attorney conceded right off the bat that there was no voter fraud and this new law wouldn’t do anything to stop voter fraud if it was happening. They defended the legislature’s right to pass the legislation, not the law’s efficacy.
This law is a blatant attempt to suppress voting.
The Moar You Know
@Punchy: The guy used to have his head on straight and made some of the best albums any human being has ever made. But he couldn’t stay sober, and it was killing him, his career and his family.
So he converted to Christianity and hired a 100% Jesusland-approved “minder”. Looks like he got more than he bargained for, turns out he made a deal with the devil.
The cure is worse than the cause. And I’m pretty sure he wrote a song or two along those lines.
NancyDarling
I have it on good authority that there are rogues and strumpets (not to mention assorted sex offenders out in the hills and hollers) in my little corner of the Ozarks. The same was true in rural PA in 1869.
WaterGirl
Kay, your next thread – Moochers and Looters – says comments are closed. I am guessing that was not intentional?
Valdivia
@scav:
that’s what I thought. I also think images like that coupled with the AP brutal factcheck this am of this bs could make a really devastating ad for the O Team.
ETA: very soon though he will seem Glenn beck crazy instead of wonky.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
If Eisenhower were President, he’d be sending the National Guard into PA on voting day.
Remember that.
scav
@Valdivia: White boards are awfully easy to photoshop too. Made the Beck connection too. Basically a mind-meld without overly duplicate comments. That’s encouraging: we should have company.
amk
@WaterGirl: Beat me to it. She is still editing it. First time though I’m seeing it here.
J. Michael Neal
Mommy! Kay won’t let us comment on the next thread!
Kay
@WaterGirl:
No, it was a mistake. John is going to fix it.
Kay
@J. Michael Neal:
I don’t know what I did or how to fix it. I need a full time assistant :)
WaterGirl
@Kay: Be careful what you wish for, Kay! It might get kind of rough with so many of us jostling to get to be your full-time assistant. :-)
Bulworth
comments turned off. we’re being oppressed. hands off my healthcare.
Kay
@WaterGirl:
Should I do what we do when the comments won’t post? I’ll just call him repeatedly until the comments are open. Keep hitting “submit”, in a way.
Frankensteinbeck
@NancyDarling:
I live in Kentucky. We have strumpets everywhere. Strumpets are the only useful thing the state produces.
scav
While we’re waiting to be rude to Miami of OH (Well, I am) here’s a little OT giggle: Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp launches anti-corruption review
quannlace
Even this must vary from state to state. Here in Jersey you don’t need an ‘excuse’ to receive an absentee ballot.
Valdivia
While we wait to comment on Kay’s thread here is something to make your head explode.
Romney on taxes is about honor
shoot me know
Smiling Mortician
@scav:
Orwell just spun so hard he threw up in his mouth a little.
Xboxershorts
Holy Shit…George Ellis is a goddam wingnut pukefest, all by himself.
In case you’re interested:
http://freeandequalpa.wordpress.com/
I can’t belief this asshole cited a shitload of wingnut blogs as evidence and that this judge ACCEPTED this Friend of the Court brief…
spongeworthy
When you scream like ninnies over defunding ACORN, you have some responsibility for the problem. Surely you guys aren’t going to claim ACORN didn’t submit a ton of phony registrations, are you? Don’t you think that has any effect? Why, when they’re caught red-handed trying to submit bad registrations, do you guys rush to defend them? Why not get the bad apple out of the barrel?
Instead, you guys rush to their defense and they splinter off to run the same game under other names. Sounds to me like you want some voters to distrust the system and stay home and others to vote no matter what. Why, d’ya suppose?
Kay
@quannlace:
You don’t in Ohio, either. It’s called “no fault” absentee balloting. The absentee balloting rules were based on this archaic notion that people would be trapped working “out of county” and couldn’t return. That’s how Ohio’s original reads: like you’re scheduled for a fortnight visit with relatives that month.
rlrr
Our rights, they come from nature and God
I’m not so sure. The idea of “rights” seems to be a fairly recent development…
Kay
@Valdivia:
I have to go to work so I’m abandoning my fix the comments duties. Again, I apologize. It’s weird that it’s “comments off” rather than “comments closed”.
Sorry. I looked at all comments related-things back there and I’m coming up with nothing.
Valdivia
@Kay:
we forgive you. :)
SatanicPanic
@spongeworthy:
You mean as in- look, we had these phony registrations submitted to us, please dispose of them, because we’re not supposed to do that ourselves? Sure, they did submit those. What’s your point?
Bulworth
Now I’m confused. Our rights come from God? But I thought ‘Freedom Isn’t Free’?
Smiling Mortician
@spongeworthy: Facts are cool. You should try some:
rlrr
@Kay:
Edit the post and check “Allow Comments”…
Chyron HR
@spongeworthy:
ACORN was required by law to submit all registration forms to the proper authorities for validation.
Or to put it in terms you understand, do you really want the “nigger thugs” at ACORN to have the power to throw out voter registrations that they don’t like?
WaterGirl
@Kay: I highly recommend calling Cole’s mom, that ought to get the job done.
Villago Delenda Est
@Valdivia:
Interesting that an honorless cur would make that argument.
Rmoney is despicable in every way imaginable.
rlrr
@Chyron HR:
ACORN was required by law to submit all registration forms to the proper authorities for validation.
A fact no right wing news source has ever found necessary to report.
Valdivia
@Villago Delenda Est:
I am just speechless now. and seething. fucking Village.
quannlace
I don’t quite get this ‘rights come from nature’ angle. I suppose he’s echoing the ‘endowed with inalienable rights, etc.’ from the Declaration. But the way he’s phrasing it, I keep imagining him cornered in the woods with a hungry grizzley bear, and trying to explain his ‘rights.’
scav
@Villago Delenda Est: Remember reading somewhere that honor (as in justification for killings {esp of wive’s lovers?}, general social value / alibi) was more common to Southern culture or at least the traditional elements thereof. So, conceivably, that could be a button they’re pushing.
maurinsky
I apologize for all the duplicate comments. I didn’t get any indication that it had gone through once, let alone 6 times.
Hill Dweller
@spongeworthy: ACORN had to turn in all registrations, including the fraudulent ones that they flagged before submission, by law. State’s do that to prevent shady people selectively turning in new registrations that just benefit their party.
When you base pay on number of registrations, sometimes workers artificially inflate the numbers with false names. This happens to everyone that holds registration drives. Pretending this is/was solely an ACORN problem is ignorant.
You’re also ignoring Rove using the DOJ to bring phony cases against ACORN, and firing US Attorneys that didn’t cooperate. This is all part of the propaganda to convince people that there is massive fraud.
The Republicans have been going after all the tools to increase voter turnout for the better part of the last decade. The voter ID laws, cutting early voting, making registration drives virtually impossible, are all meant to suppress voting by young people, minorities, and the poor, because they tend to vote for Democrats.
Martin
@Hill Dweller:
What’s more. ACORN had a program to submit the registrations in groups – with the ones that ACORN suspected to be fraudulent in a pile, basically saying to the Registrar of Voters “We are required to submit these, but we think they’re bullshit.’ It was that courtesy that ultimately hurt them because the GOP zeroed in on those groups of registrations and said “Look! ACORN is submitting stacks of clearly fraudulent registrations!” Duh, that was intentional – and helpful.
scav
OK, this is rather funny, consider it a loopback to our rights being given by nature: Norwegian driver hits bear while trying to avoid moose
Svensker
@quannlace:
This is a huge meme on the right at the mo, all my wingnut rellies are posting on FB about “rights come from God and nature not government”, as though liberals disagree with the idea of natural and inalienable rights that are inherent rather than granted by the potentate of the day.
It makes them feel all intellectual and stuff.
rlrr
Comments are enabled upstairs…
Dork
@scav: Anything happen to the moose’s knuckle?
/giggles
Argive
@spongeworthy:
Man, I worked for the PA Obama campaign back in ’08 and I fucking hated the ACORN voter registration people. They were doing all sorts of underhanded shit; paying homeless people to register multiple times, submitting fake registrations, etc. Of course, they were doing all of that because ACORN was in the habit of hiring just about anyone to do voter registration. The result was that they inevitably hired people who were desperate for work and would commit voter registration fraud to make their quotas (often around 15 – 20 registrations a day). But guess what? None of that bullshit made it past the county voting board. If you submit a voter registration card under the name Mickey Mouse or whatever, it won’t work because the county voting board knows that that person ISN’T ACTUALLY REAL. Same goes for multiple registrations or registering people who are dead – the county voting board catches it. The worst that voter registration fraud does, in my experience, is that it makes legitimate voter cards take longer to process.
ETA: @Martin:
It’s good to hear that they were aware of the nonsense their voter registration people were up to. Maybe if they hadn’t required such outrageous quotas they wouldn’t have had to do it in the first place.
spongeworthy
I’m pretty sure it is wrong to pay people for registering voters. It can only lead to this stuff. I mean, I get that ACORN knew they were submitting false registrations, but I still don’t see how you can defend their methods when it leads to a lack of condience from other voters. And then turn around and blame everybody but ACORN when people decide they want voter ID.
Yutsano
@spongeworthy: You’re discussing two completely separate issues, which is a classic misdirection technique. Just admit you got nothin’ and move on.
japa21
@spongeworthy: ACORN didn’t lead to a lack of confidence among the voters. The Republicans did by lying about ACORN.
And paying people to go out and get voters registered has long been an approved process. Hell, the Republicans paid groups in Nevada to do the same. But then they got caught throwing away all the registrations of people who registered as Democrats.
Chyron HR
@spongeworthy:
Well, there’s new entry for the big list of things Republicans are “pretty sure of”:
1) The President is an illegal immigrant from Kenya.
2) No Republicans ever voted for George W. Bush.
3) Cash for Clunkers was a government plot to install spyware on Americans’ computers.
4) George Soros is destroying
GermanyAmerica with his filthy Jew gold.5) It’s wrong to compensate people for time they spend on a job.
Lojasmo
@spongeworthy:
Did it ever occur to you, thou dipshit, that voters WOULD trust elections if the republicans didn’t demagogue a thouroghly vetted, and trustworthy process?
Fuck yourself.
Argive
@spongeworthy:
Voter registration fraud didn’t lead to a lack of confidence from other voters because none of the phony registration cards made it past the county voting board. If anything, watching how the voting board dealt with registration fraud gave me MORE confidence in the system.
And while having volunteers do voter registration does eliminate this kind of fraud, street level or door-to-door voter registration isn’t always that much fun (remember, you’re doing it in the late summer and you have to talk to everyone you see, which ensures that you’ll meet some unpleasant people). Paying canvassers to do it ensures that they will actually do it instead of come back to the campaign office after a few hours and ask to do data entry or phonebanking in the sweet sweet AC instead. No, the thing to do is to not require workers to register upwards of 15 people per day in order to keep their jobs.
Argive
@Argive:
I should add that the Obama campaign here did not pay canvassers to do voter registration. My experience as a paid voter registration canvasser comes from being employed by a non-partisan voter registration drive. I had a lot more fun registering people on a volunteer basis.
Lojasmo
@spongeworthy:
I felt a little bad telling you to fuck yourself up thread. Now I feel vindicated.
opie jeanne
@Bob: Thanks. I totally missed that. I’ll go back and listen to it again.
opie jeanne
@NancyDarling: Nancy, are you near Bannister Holler (Hollow)?
opie jeanne
@quannlace: California, too.
spongeworthy
@Argive: I think you’re right, that this is where ACORN went wrong, with the quotas.
My point isn’t that ACORN led Americans to distrust the process, it’s your defense of ACORN that does this. It’s no secret that the Left has an incentive to game the system, so when anybody’s caught anywhere close to doing this, you have to throw them right under the bus. Otherwise nobody trusts the system.
They may be getting a bad rap, but they can defend themselves. Don’t give people reason to believe you approve of their methods. Or they’ll press for voter ID.
eyelessgame
If “rights come from nature and God, not from government”, that makes the Bill of Rights pretty useless (or at best redundant), doesn’t it. Funny thing for a Republican to say.
Catsy
@Punchy: We’re talking about the guy who was such a huge asshole he got kicked out of Metallica.
Mustaine’s been a nutjob for a while now. Still love a lot of his work in Megadeth, but he’s a real nasty piece of work.
Catsy
@spongeworthy:
Okay, now I know you’re either stupid or just trolling.
Because if you knew the first thing about the kind of voter registration work that ACORN was doing, you’d know that they were required by law to turn in all registrations they receive. It is flat-out illegal to pick and choose which ones they think are phony.
Now go away and stop wasting our time with this mendacious claptrap.
joel hanes
@spongeworthy:
pieworthy apparently doesn’t know that ACORN customarily drew attention to registrations they knew were invalid, while complying with law that required them to submit them anyway.
pieworthy apparently doesn’t know that preoccupation with ACORN on net is one of the most effective ways of signalling “I am a racist”
rikyrah
the stuff you find, Kay.
but, they are who we thought they were.
no shock, even if I can get disgusted by it.
1badbaba3
Oh boy, another has-been hack from the prevoius century applying for wingnut welfare by slagging the first metrosexual black President? Jesu frakkin’ Christe, get a job!
Jebediah
@spongeworthy:
Just fuck off, you disingenuous douche. No-one’s buying your shit.