From an Obama speech in Roanoke, VA, the other day:
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
Exam time. What was Obama saying that the individual business owner did not build? Discuss.
Kilkee
I know! I know! Roads and bridges! Except if you’re a teabagger, then it’s “your business”. This is already all over the place. Hell, the Brits are all over it. Don’t think it’ll stand up to Bain though.
inthekitchen
IMO, he means the infrastructure that allowed the entrepreneur’s business to be created and thrive.
Kilkee
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174935/John-Sununu-Attack-Obama-Romney-aide-president-told-bosses-dont-deserve-credit-success.html
Todd
Unpossible! Everybody has the same opportunity from the time of the first breath, the Gospels of Jesus and St Ayn tell me so!
4tehlulz
Too bad John Sununu stepped all over Fox’s made up shit.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Oh, I know, I know…Obummer was saying that he hates small businesses and that he wants to destroy America.
Morbo
Once Peter Schiff gets his mighty seastead up and running, he’ll show Obama who built what!
Roger Moore
Anything! I can has wingnut welfare, plz?
Ash Can
It’s quite rare that Obama lets something slip into his speeches that can be taken out of context like this. On the other hand, Fox is preaching to its choir, and the deafening racket of Romney’s implosion is drowning out all the little things like this. It’ll be forgotten by Obama’s next speech.
reflectionephemeral
Also, this commonsense idea was offered in defense of returning some marginal income tax rates to surplus-era levels.
All resentment, zero policy. All that can be expected from today’s Republican Party.
Brachiator
Yeah, there’s a broader context, but this is pissing a lot of people off.
dmsilev
Off topic, but wow:
“John McCain: I Didn’t Pick Romney Because ‘Sarah Palin Was The Better Candidate’ ”
(via)
That’s a really low bar that Mitt failed to clear.
jlow
The Internet! Al Gore did that!
peorgietirebiter
Say what you will about infrastructure, Jackson’s private equity firm buying the Mississippi river pretty much set the course for American commerce.
Tim F.
To be fair, the DoD did not create the internet so that companies could make money off of it. The DoD funded Darpanet because the DARPA spends money on a thousand stupid things because once in a while something pays off in a way that you can almost never predict. It is profligate and wasteful by design. The fact that something useful like velcro, silly putty or amateur video porn sites comes out of it once in a while is an incidental benefit.
BGinCHI
I know the answer is either 1, -1, or 0.
That’s how I got an A in Differential Equations.
Ash Can
@dmsilev: I wonder if that’s Walnuts-ese for “I didn’t pick Romney because that pigfucking asshole barely made it out of the interview room without me jumping on him and beating him until he was just a shit stain in the carpet.”
Balconesfault
Speaking of IQ tests, news is out that women now have higher IQ scores than men.
I’m wondering if they removed “Fox Blondes” from the testing pool, but then they balance out with Neal Cavuto and Sean Hannity.
delphi_ote
Jesus Christ. Who wrote this speech? They should be fired immediately. Here’s a MUCH better version:
If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that alone. Your customers, your employees, your friends and family, and, yes, the civil servants who protect your investments and maintain the infrastructure you rely on every day… all of those people helped make your dream a reality.
askew
This article on Romney’s Veepstakes is a must-read. They spend three pages trying to convince people that Portman, Jindhal, and Pawlenty aren’t boring. My favorite piece:
Seriously, that’s all they’ve got.
Tim F.
@Brachiator: You misuse the word ‘context’. The wingnut interpretation mistakes the meaning of the sentence in the same way that the sentence “That would be like saying I murdered six prostitutes” would mean something different if I left out “…that would be like saying…”. It is simply wrong.
redshirt
Pay no attention to the Rich Man behind the curtain! Look! Over there! Shiny baubles!
catclub
@Ash Can: Yes. Everybody else in the primary always ends up hating Romney. Happened in 2008 and in 2012.
Legalize
He’s saying that in Willard’s case, the IRS made his fortune possible to a great degree.
catclub
@delphi_ote: I disagree.
I read a completely different meaning of what was built.
If you have a business, you did not build that system of roads and laws, which supports it.
Tim F.
Examples of the same thing at work.
scav
My currently contending favorite for faint praise is from the NYT: Inside the Romney No. 2 Hunt: First, Do No Harm, which actually kind of nicely bookends yours.
Ash Can
@askew: I’m sure the daughter’s “speechlessness” involved something along the lines of “Dad, that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. What is your problem, anyway?”
fasteddie9318
I believe the correct answer is “Communism Kenya Alinsky Allahu Akbar”
Kane
@4tehlulz: If the Romney campaign is going to put out a surrogate to question Obama’s Americanness, they might not want to have someone born in Cuba speaking on the subject.
And if living abroad somehow diminishes one’s Americanness, then what effect does living in France for two and half years have?
Comrade Mary
@Tim F.:
It also means that if you put all three together, Rule 34 can be officially retired.
Lee
My wingnut friends are going completely mental over this on Facebook.
I’m having a grand time pointing out how very wrong they are.
Culture of Truth
They should get along well, since Mitt Romney also lays an egg a day.
Tim F.
@delphi_ote: This is a fine point. If you know that the other guy will gladly take your quotes out of context, try to avoid giving sound bites that sound like death when you take them out of context.
wrb
Obama’s claiming that people who don’t own buisnesses, aka his socialist cronies, own our roads and bridges.
He’ll have us paying them tolls soon.
Culture of Truth
They should get along well, since Mitt Romney also lays an egg a day.
JustAnotherBob
Taking a single sentence out of context and running with it.
Desperation.
wrb
Obama’s claiming that people who don’t own businesses, aka his socialist cronies, own our roads and bridges.
He’ll have us paying them tolls soon.
WaterGirl
@Tim F.:
Not that it will matter to the haters, but I think that was just sloppy shorthand.
Mino
Pedant says wrong pronoun. Should have used those as the plural and they couldn’t have grabbed the quote since business was singular.
Culture of Truth
They should get along well, since Mitt Romney also lays an egg a day.
JustAnotherBob
Taking a single sentence out of context and running with it.
Desperation.
JustAnotherBob
Taking a single sentence out of context and running with it.
Desperation.
catclub
OT Bernanke testimony and similar IQ test:
The quote starts like this: “Chairman Ben S. Bernanke told lawmakers that progress in reducing unemployment is likely to be “frustratingly slow” and repeated that the central bank is ready to take further action….”
What is the next word?
a) if
b) immediately
c) only
Reappointing Bernanke was an own goal.
a) if Romney is elected
b) immediately. Kidding!
c) only after all other possibilities have been tried.
eric
Social-a-fuck-ing-ism, with a side of anti-colonialism self-hatred and a dash of christianity-hating-islamic foreignism
Catsy
Honestly, that part of the speech was phrased really badly. I had to read it twice myself with the full context before I understood exactly how the wingnuts were lying about it. I don’t think it’ll mean much in the general, but it gives Fox and the wingnut noise machine an easy source of mendacious manufactured outrage.
Mino
Although if they can’t spell, a grammar no-no probably wouldn’t faze them.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? (formerly MarkJ)
@Culture of Truth: Now I’m confused. Is it Rob Portman or his wife’s chickens that’s going to be the running mate?
I guess this means I flunked the IQ test, though in my defense I would have said roads and bridges.
Kane
The public as a whole pays for the infrastructure, educating the workforce, police and fire departments, providing assorted tax breaks and incentives and a vast array of expenditures for business that other countries can’t/won’t provide.
The notion that a millionaire in America is “self-made” is a myth. Through shared sacrifice, we the people have made the success possible for the millionaires and billionaires to aquire their great wealth. They would not have been anywhere near as successful if they lived and worked in Peru or Ethiopia.
So it is fair and just that when individuals become successful off the public’s investment in them, that they pay back that investment so others may also have the opportunity to succeed. In doing so, they will not only help to strengthen our country, they will help to keep alive the American Dream which has been so very good to them.
jwb
@Tim F.: Sometimes it’s hard to recognize them, however, especially when writing under deadline (I’d guess this one was of that sort), and some very effective rhetorical figures require making statements that mean the opposite of what they mean in the context. This one was an unforced error but is combatible by doing precisely what you did in this post. So I woud suggest to anyone who sees this popping up on FB, Twitter, chain email, or whatnot, to post the full quote and pose the question as to what the President claimed the business owner did not build.
CarolinaDave
It is not just Fox running with this, Mitt used it in his stump speech which Andrea Mitchell and Chris Cilizza both said Obama was channeling Elizabeth Warren. Not calling out Rmoney for using the quote out of context. Our liberal media. At play, because it is just a silly game to these silly villagers.
Chris
@dmsilev:
Best of all, this quote reinforces for the wingnut base the contrast between Palin, whom they adore, and Romney, the almost-liberal Mormon from the People’s Republic of Taxachusetts. The more stuff like this is said, the more they’re inspired to hold their noses and maybe even stay home.
Maude
@Tim F.:
#14 Tang.
That was always my favorite answer to the question, what good is NASA and the space program.
JustAnotherBob
And, no, I didn’t send twice.
I just hit the daily double….
Roger Moore
@Maude:
GPS. Weather Satellites. Communications Satellites. Space pens.
catclub
@Catsy: “mendacious manufactured outrage.”
second sighting of mendacity ( and friends) on BJ today.
Brings back “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof”
redshirt
Is anyone really concerned by this? Shit flinging monkeys are gonna fling shit – it’s what they do! It’s all they do.
Maude
@Roger Moore:
Thanks. There are so many benefits to come from the space program.
NASA does great maps of places as well.
They saw another moon by Pluto. P5.
I found this exciting. It was seen by Hubble.
catclub
@Roger Moore: GPS. Weather Satellites. Communications Satellites.
GPS: Dept of Defense.
Weather Satellites: NOAA and NASA
Communiciations Satellites: Dept of Defense.
Space Pens: Sure, NASA, why not.
NASA is a Public Relations organization with rockets.
scav
Amusing argument to have (the who did what in business, the true ‘mercan businessman dragging goods to customers personally over unpaved fetid swamps and flying on his own bootstraps) with a man defending to the teeth he had nothing whatsoever to do with a company under his sole on-paper control for 3 years, during which time the magic underwear gnomes did all those mean mean things.
Brachiator
@Tim F.:
Whatever. Trying to dismiss negative reaction to Obama’s remarks as coming only from wingnuts is a waste of time, as is pedantry over the use of the word “context.”
The chatter among some of my fellow commuters, which includes some strong Obama reporters, was very negative. The broader context of the remarks, however you want to take it, doesn’t improve on the resentment that some may feel here. Even trying to explain what Obama really meant, or providing the full remarks does not necessarily help.
I am curious about how voters will take these remarks, and how the GOP will use Obama’s statements to their advantage. The rest is commentary.
@delphi_ote:
Yep, you got it. Obama is stepping on his own message.
Chris
@Kane:
I’ll take “what have the Romans ever done for us” for nine hundred dollars, Alex.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
They’re all a result of the space program, which was what they were asking about. And even if you want to look more carefully than that, most military satellites went up on NASA rockets.
wrb
Motown, pot smoking… next they are going to claim that Obama’s got rhythm.
Davis X. Machina
I’m so old I remember when Obama’s ‘doing fine’ gaffe cost him the election. That was five weeks ago….
Davis X. Machina
I’m so old I remember when Obama’s ‘doing fine’ gaffe cost him the election. That was five weeks ago….
jwb
@Brachiator: You can’t explain the remarks. That approach rarely works, as whomever you are trying to convince will just take you as spinning. Tim doesn’t do that here. He asks you to read the quote and and determine what the referent of “that” is. IMHO, this approach is much more likely to be successful.
ETA: So I see that Romney picked up the line and was using it in his speeches today. I think that was a bad move on his part, because it gives the press a reason to source the quote and talk about the chatter about it on the social networks.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Brachiator: Did you push back against what they were saying? How did the commuters respond?
Anonymous37
Exam time. What was Obama saying that the individual business owner did not build?
Obama is saying that the individual business owner did not build the teacher. Which is a weird thing to say: businessmen build teachers all the time.
delphi_ote
@Tim F.: Precisely! And clarifying the language actually makes the speech more inspiring. You’ve got to be careful about this kind of thing on the campaign trial.
Mino
Well, Obama should use the phrase prominently in his next few speeches and force the idjits to show the context. He should not drop it.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@CarolinaDave:
When I read this, Warren’s ‘you didn’t do that by yourself’ stump speech did come to mind (I can’t get to video from where I sit, or I’d provide a linky).
It’s amusing to me how wingnut narcissism runs so deep down to the bone that the mere mention that each of them didn’t spring from Zeus’ head fully-formed like Athena with an MBA triggers such levels of whiny poutrage.
fraught
I’m offended for my good buddy Ayn Rand and all of her adolescent objectivist friends. But, aside from us, no one else should care too much. Besides, O will correct his wording in his next speech and even Rand Paul will stp holding his breath.
Liberty60
I have a running debate with the guys over at League of Ordinary Gentlemen about this very issue; that capitalism requires government, that without the societal infrastructure that government provides, business can’t operate.
I also used it in a townhall forum at my church where we brought together a cross section of middle class suburbanites, mostly conservative Republicans.
I think its a good meme.It places government and taxpayer spending in the realm of providing benefits for everyone, and doing something obviously positive and helpful.
In my conversations, no one has been able to refute it easily.
RP
I seriously doubt Obama read the speech exactly as written. He probably just flubbed the line.
Brachiator
@jwb:
That’s just a grammar or usage lesson; it is irrelevant to how people react to the remarks.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I don’t usually play political blogger in the real world, unless someone is actively engaged in a political discussion or dissing the Democrats or Obama. Here I was interested in how my fellow commuters were reacting to the statement, not trying to correct their supposed misapprehension.
Bottom line, a lot of people aren’t stupid, and they don’t react well to the implication that individuals are little more than cogs in a larger social network, and that they owe their lot in life to the beneficence of government or other people. It seemed a secular variation of the idea that humans are nothing and a deity is everything.
BTW, the background here was that some of the commuters had heard about the remarks or had listened to a discussion of the remarks earlier in the morning on a talk radio program on KFI (the Bill Handel show). It was just part of general morning commuter chatter, but you could tell that the tenor of the remarks did not go over well.
And again, the other point here is that these people are not wingnuts or people who worship at the shrine of Limbaugh. They are not political junkies, but they do vote, and are generally pro-Obama and the Democrats.
waratah
This will be long forgotten, but retroactively is here to to stay. Simple one word, easy to remember.
Rafer Janders
@Roger Moore:
What have the Romans done for us lately?
schrodinger's cat
I think that the Bain attacks are working and this is the Villgers way of changing the topic.
fraught
@jwb: yep. It’s just a matter of wording. It’s not like O stole a 102 million dollar IRA or anything. And we must control the concern troll who lives in each of us lest he makes our fingers write anti-O nonsense.
Spatula
@delphi_ote:
Jesus Christ. Who wrote this speech? They should be fired immediately. Here’s a MUCH better version:
Oh please.
Sounds to me like he was speaking off the cuff. And the wingers know exactly what the totality of his statement means…which is why they are freaking out and misdirecting.
Emphasis and inflection in public speaking are just as important as the words. I don’t think Obama was referring to the “business” the owners did not build, but all the other stuff he was listing, which made it possible for the owners to build their businesses.
Please don’t feed the fake fire.
Rob in CT
Clumsy of O, prolly flubbed the line. If you think about it for 2 seconds, it’s easy to figure out what he meant.
The very first time I read it, I had a “wtf?” reaction to it. Then I realized what was going on. If you never make it past the gut reaction, it sounds bad.
Clean it up for the next speech (most likely, simply say the line properly, as I doubt the speechwriter put it that way), but continue hammering the meme home.
Spatula
@JustAnotherBob:
Wingnut SOP also, too.
It’s also all they have, but we shouldn’t misunderestimate its impact as a strategy.
Most of the electorate in America that isn’t mean as snot is dumber than a fence post.
Spatula
@wrb:
I’m sure he does have rhythm, and lots of it. I saw him move on TV.
He should own it and rock it.
VividBlueDotty
@delphi_ote@Rob in CT@delphi_ote@Brachiator: Jumping on this train with you.
This speech, as delivered (and I read it in its entirety) is serious FAIL. Yes, if you WANT TO, you can get the point he was making. But you shouldn’t have to try. The point should have been clear, and there are a million ways this message could have been worded better.
I live in Texas. Owners of truly small businesses have been among the hardest hit in this economy. Not all of them are teabaggers. And some of them are growing suspicious of Rmoney, But if they don’t feel supported by Obama, they won’t vote for him. Isn’t getting their votes worth a little more effort on the part of the speechwriters? Can they not take a little more care to ensure that the message being received is the intended one? Maybe not to everyone (obviously) but to those who are truly listening, waiting for someone to speak to them and their needs?
I have to hope the suggestion that he flubbed the line is correct. If so, he needs to get it right next time.)
delphi_ote
@Spatula: You and I both know what Obama meant. But this is politics. His job is speaking. His advisors are responsible for making sure he doesn’t say dumb things. That phrase was a fuck up. It shouldn’t be a big deal, but it will be.
It’s an unnecessary self-inflicted wound.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
@Mino: ‘Xactly! And add something along the lines of, “Now, I wasn’t as succinct on that point as I could have been when I was talkin’ about this the other day. And do you know what Romney and his
ill-trained flying monkeyssurrogates did? They claimed I was sayin’ that if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build your own business! Now, why would I say something like that? There’s no logic in it whatsoever! But they’ve been feelin’ some heat, and they were desperate to create a diversion out of what, on it’s face, would be a completely nonsensical statement. So let me repeat myself, more clearly this time, so there’s no mistaking what I’m sayin’, here…”Will
I still think it was sloppy for a public speaker as skilled as Obama to provide them an easy sound bite like that. What good possibly comes out of a phrase that can so easily be twisted into some kind of attack on small business owners? I don’t know why that wasn’t caught in advance.
pattonbt
Again, the problem for the 27% is they will jump on this, salivate and pee themselves with glee “See?!??!! He’s a total socialist, black panther reverse racist, government freeloader taking away the white mans guns and American rights!”.
And the middle will go “WTF? Did O really say that? That sounds pretty bad”. But then, unlike the 27% (and outside the Fox bubble), they will go out and get the general context and come to the conclusion “Wow, that sounded dumb, but we see what he was trying to get at. That pretty much fits in with what he always says. Still may not agree, but he wasnt saying what the 27% thought. No biggie”.
The problem for the right is they are looking for that one gotcha as if they can prove that “See, we were right all along with our insanity about O”. They will always FAIL on that because Obama isn’t new anymore, he has a record, he is known and there isnt any “there” there anymore. His record is already there. So gotcha ain’t gonna work. It’ll be great for the base in the bubble, but it will FAIL with the middle.