This Obama ad has the New York Times concern trolling:
… [I]n the days leading up to the first anniversary of the raid that finally caught up to the Qaeda mastermind, Mr. Obama has made a concerted, if to some indecorous, effort to trumpet the killing as perhaps the central accomplishment of his presidency.
Mr. Obama has used the rarefied setting of the Situation Room to give an interview about how he made the decision to send in Special Operations forces. Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. gave a speech saying the re-election slogan would be “Bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive.” The president’s campaign released a Web video showing former President Bill Clinton praising Mr. Obama’s fortitude, as it questioned whether Mitt Romney would have made the same decision.
This makes it sound like the Situation Room is one of the sites where the Blessed Virgin Mary apparated. How dare we talk about killing and death in the room where we make plans for killing and death?
Because Mitt is the target here, for his stupid statement that he wouldn’t make Bin Laden a priority, the Romney campaign has trotted out John McCain to tsk-tsk. Here’s the best he can do:
No one disputes that the President deserves credit for ordering the raid, but to politicize it in this way is the height of hypocrisy.
The Obama campaign asks whether Mitt Romney would have made that decision. Of course they want to focus on this one tactical decision because the other decisions this President has made have harmed our national security.
In other words, “squirrel”.
Raven
Yea cuz those shit-eatin dog-fuckers Boooch and Chaney would have never done some low shit like that.
Villago Delenda Est
McCain is such a loathsome sack of shit.
You’re digging a hole of infamy, John. Didn’t your dad (the admiral, you incapable of command loser) teach you to stop digging?
Raven
@Villago Delenda Est: Squids don’t know shit about digging unless they are seabees.
Villago Delenda Est
Gentlemen, you can’t fight in the war room!
General Stuck
One thing Modo is basically right on, that American voters like their Presidents with a bit of swagger now and then. Concern trolls on the left, and butthurt wingnuts whining cause their guy didn’t get bin Laden, be damned. It all puts a big grim on my face.
dmsilev
After the Republicans, especially including George W Bush and John McCain, spent several years humping the corpse of 9/11, it’s a wonder that they can make accusations of this sort without being struck by lightning bolts from a wrathful deity. Or have we all somehow managed to forget “Mission Accomplished”, Rudy “A noun, a verb, and 9/11” Giuliani, or the video montage at the 2008 R Convention that was a “tribute” to 9/11?
I guess Zeus doesn’t mind hypocrites.
General Stuck
@Villago Delenda Est:
I mean, they’ll see everything, they’ll… they’ll see the Big Board!
Baud
A president who respected the dignity of the office would have treated the anniversary with more decorum and humility by, say, landing a jet on to an aircraft carrier.
Well, I guess that wouldn’t have worked for Obama because the Mission Accomplished sign would have been true.
Valdivia
I just saw that NYT thing and I wanted to throw an ax at someone’s head. So let’s get this straight: exploiting fear about 9/11 to get Bush and Republicans elected, ok. Recognizing that Obama is a bad ass who killed the MoFo, out of bounds?
Shoot me now. He is supposed to just sit quietly while the republicans and their friends call him a weakling? Inexperienced? A hater of America?
ciotog
Well, the public editor of the Times told us there was going to be more of this. I guess the Sulzbergers want those sweet, sweet Romney tax cuts.
ciotog
Well, the public editor of the Times told us there was going to be more of this. I guess the Sulzbergers want those sweet, sweet Romney tax cuts.
dmsilev
@dmsilev: The video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDx80bnFrVs
Dear Republicans: Shut The Fuck Up.
Petorado
Yeah, it’s not like Republicans would have ads saying what would a Democrat do if they had a phone call at 3 a.m. that was a matter of national security. Conservatives would never stoop so low, that’s why it’s always liberals running crazy ads with scary wolves in them coming to eat your Christian babies. Thank goodness folks like Karl Rove and Lee Atwater are the models of decorum in elections.
MattF
Republicans face a delicate task here– acknowledging that Obama accomplished something while reminding voters that the GOP is the true party of Homicidal Lunacy. So, we get to hear from John McCain.
MikeJ
I was thinking about this last night, or actually a related matter. In the book that Time excerpted this week, Gates states that he was dead set against a raid and wanted to bomb the building bin Laden was in.
It has been a matter of faith for Republicans for *decades* that no lowly elected representative of the people should ever dare question one of the holy ones, that is, someone in in a uniform.
I would love to ask Romney, “When Gates said he was against sending in a raid, would you have listened to the military or would you have killed bin Laden?”
Frankensteinbeck
@Valdivia:
Yes. Should we go over the reasons why? They need a horse race, IOKIYAR, they’ve never liked Obama because his policies help people, they’ve never liked Obama because he’s black, they’ve never liked Obama because he wants to raise rich people’s taxes, Republicans are manly Daddy figures and Democrats should shut up and get in the kitchen, fauxrages make news without having to do any work? I’m probably forgetting some.
redshirt
How arrogant that this President should have the gall to list his accomplishments!
Another sign we need an incompetent Plutocrat to rule us.
ira-ny
Reminds me of this famous quote from Dr Strangelove.
President Merkin Muffley: “Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here! This is the War Room!”
mai naem
You have to be kidding me. This is the same newspaper that had Judith Miller pimping Cheney’s crap and were getting hard ons with Bush’s Mission Accomplished crap. Seriously??????? JGFY.
the Conster
Remember when the WaPo and the NYT called out the Bush admin for obvious misuse of the threat level color codes before every important announcement and election? Yeah, me neither. The upside though is that they’ve clearly got nothin’.
schrodinger's cat
I saw that this morning, and wanted to tear my hair out.
Valdivia
@Frankensteinbeck:
Shoot me now. Again.
Aimai
They are really scared that if Obama is allowed to be photographed or interviewed looking presidential the entire line of GOP attack falls. The times and all those guys want Obama to fight this election with both hands tied behind his back, stuffed in a sack, under a heap of clothes in the closet. How rude of him to animadvert on his successes. A truly modest man, like Reagan or bush, would never have allowed all this cult of me me me.
mai naem
They are also talking about the same situation when MTP and all the other talking heads shows on Sunday after raid had all Republicans on, because you know it was Bush who captured Bin Laden. Also too, Obama is a black muslim kenyan soshyleest appeaser.
dmsilev
I wonder whether Times reporters read the comments to their pieces. Because that article was getting absolutely trashed by the NYT commentariat. For the same reasons that it’s getting trashed here.
Maybe, just maybe, we can do some behavioral conditioning on the authors and editors responsible for nonsense of this sort.
gaz
@dmsilev: I’m thinking that a plurality of NYT staff have some kind of hate-mail fetish.
They write horrible articles and then wank while getting eviscerated by their readers in the comments.
That’s the only thing that makes this all make some sort of sense.
(“Please, may I have another!”)
Elizabelle
I have a bookmark folder for “Bad Journalism – examples” and this went straight in.
FWIW, both Peter Baker and Michael D. Shear are Washington Post alumni who jumped to the Big Apple/Grey Lady.
(And what dmsilev said at 24 — the reader comments are delicious.)
Mike in NC
@MikeJ:
Willard: “I’ll have to get back to you later about that”
MikeJ
@dmsilev: There was one comment in there that was off from the others, calling Obama a coward, et cet. Just loaded booman, and he’s taking apart Big Fap’s story. The blockquotes are identical to the comment at NYT.
HRA
Earlier this morning I went to read some of the comments about the ad and it was nothing except attack, attack, attack upon the president while sugary admiration for McCain’s stupidity.
It brings to mind the saying and the fitness of protesting too much as well as covering up the miserable Romney speech at the university in Ohio. Never was I more thankful for changing to a D from an R!
Jeff Spender
This is why Buddhism is awesome. If you let go of all of your attachments, the world is a much nicer place. I can hear the birds singing outside of my window now, whereas in the past I wouldn’t have heard a damn thing through my rage-clogged ear canal.
Just let go of the idea that we are a sane species and you’ll realize that everything that happens makes sense, precisely because it doesn’t make sense.
eldorado
obama – i didn’t politicize osama bin laden. i eliminated him.
gaz
@Jeff Spender: I can hear the trains outside my window.
I’d move to a better neighborhood, but then I’d have to be around too many white neighbors.
Which means I’d have to cut my grass.
And I’d have to set their GOP yard signs alight.
And I’d have to turn my music down,
etc.
I’ll take the trains.
Freddie deBoer
And all our problems were solved!
General Stuck
I’ve never been quite sure what is rattling around in the collective brane of the NYT’s, when they write swill like this, thinly disguised to put Obama in his place. They and others have treated the Obama presidency as some sort of liberal/progressive experiment to try out, but not take too serious, and certainly not exalt in any big successes the Obama administration has had. The WAPO are a bunch of asshole neo con leaning centrists, at best, and center right at worst. So their MO is fairly obvious.
kay
I’m okay with it because he’s still leading Romney around by the nose.
Media and the Romney campaign spend every day talking about the fine points of Obama’s message.
War on women, too strong?
Student loans and taxes, class warfare?
Bin laden, too triumphant?
When does the Romney campaign start?
All I hear is criticism of the Obama campaign messaging.
Romney and media aren’t even disputing the
substance of his argument. Can we assume they agree with him, they just don’t like the slogans?
quannlace
‘Indecorous?’ Shoot, if they clutch at those pearls any harder they’re gonna break the string.
Cacti
They’ve really got no response for Obama being the guy who got bin Laden, and it drives them batshit.
They wanted to see a Republican parade OBL’s severed head down Pennsylvania Avenue, and the ni-CLANG took that away from them.
Now he’s using their mealy-mouthed excuse making against them. Waaaah, unfair!
MikeJ
@Freddie deBoer: You’re usually not that stupid are you?
Brian R.
Right, because as we all know, restoring America’s image in the global community, winding down the clusterf*ck war in Iraq, toppling Qaddafi without putting a single soldier on the ground, encouraging democracy throughout the Middle East, pushing through the New START treaty and tracking down loose nukes, and killing off about a third of al-Qaeda’s leadership — those moves all harmed our national security.
Stop digging, McCain. You’ve already shat all over your reputation.
gaz
@General Stuck: I’ve been seeing the pseudo word “brane” around here a lot lately. Is there a meme I’m missing (like Morans) or have a plurality of people here just collectively forgotten how to spell (like when people use loose instead of lose)?
This is not a critique, it’s an actual question. Whenever I see “brane” it makes me cringe, because it’s usually ironic as hell – as in “you’re an idiot! use your brane!!!”.. it just doesn’t make sense to me.
shortstop
On the subject of dignity and decorum, I don’t remember any other loser in a presidential contest constantly making public digs at the guy who bested him.
Because he is ruled by petty rages and utterly lacks self-control–two attributes that are not useful in heads of state–McCain is totally oblivious to how pathetic he looks when he continues to pick the scab of his loss in public.
Odie Hugh Manatee
GM’s alive & Osama’s dead. Enuff said.
@Freddie deBoer:
Well, that’s what the Firebaggers want us to think. ;p
@MikeJ:
Depends on the topic.
amk
shorter msm pricks – Obama cannot campaign on his record.
General Stuck
@gaz:
It means whatever you want it to mean
slag
I really don’t understand the concern here. Like at all. Killing Osama Bin Laden is a line on Obama’s resume. This ad was pointing that out. And voters should get to decide whether or not they want to rehire him partially based on that line on his resume. What’s the question?
That ad obviously wasn’t intended to intimidate anyone–or if it was, it probably failed miserably. It was a rare low-hyperbole ad that actually focused on one of many issues we’ll be voting on in this election….oh…now I see where the problem is. Jesus H Tapdancing Christ they’re focusing on issues! Sans hyperbole even! Send in the clowns.
Brian R.
This reminds me of the West Wing episode where the re-election campaign started to revolve around the question of whether or not Bartlet’s opponent was an idiot or not.
As long as we’re talking about Obama killing Bin Laden, it doesn’t matter how much they clutch their pearls — because it’s just going to remind people, over and over again, that Obama killed Bin Laden.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Obama killed Bin Laden BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Quite a tantrum from The Man Who Picked Palin. I especially like the part where Obama has thrown Israel under the bus. Didn’t McCain and Romney both scold Obama for saying he would go into Pakistan to get bin Laden, saying his willingness to offend our “ally” was evidence of his irresponsibility and lack of experience.
Culture of Truth
@kay: Exactly. The Romney campaign is always playing catch up, on the defensive, whining about how Obama’s successes aren’t successfully enough. It’s a sure fire loser.
jim filyaw
for thirty plus years we’ve been treated with the freedom fries, mission-accomplished, other priorities, chicken hawk republicans strutting across the electoral stage telling us about how tough they are as compared to democrats. they’ve nominated a guy who epitomizes that paradox (three generations, five wars, seven fit men who never served a day in uniform). and yet, their nominee pronounces himself more qualified to be commander in chief than our president, the one who had to make the decision, and did. how dare the democrats, to point this out!
gaz
@General Stuck:
Channeling your inner palin? hehe. I was under the impression that words mean things. my bad.
quannlace
Well, of course they have to go to McCain for a quote in these situations. Cause he’s the only Repub around who has ANY military service. Who else are they gonna ask? Boehner, Cantor, Ryan? Romney’s sons?
Baud
@eldorado: Me likey.
eemom
@Aimai:
sweeet.
My opinion is thus: the attacks have gotten SO ridiculous, SO fast, that if I were Obama I’d just tune them out totally and do my thing without regard to all the noise.
MikeJ
BTW, Newcastle is giving us the most boring game in the history of football. They may as well not be there.
I was already cheering for Wigan, but 4 nil after one half? Sheesh.
General Stuck
@gaz:
Channeling your inner asswipe?. Stay the fuck away from me.
mistermix
@Freddie deBoer: You got that out of this post?
eemom
@Freddie deBoer:
hey, I hear Greenwald is preaching on the mount again today. Go wash his feet.
kay
@Culture of Truth:
I don’t know what it is. What is Mitt Romney running on?
I listened to his college speech in Ohio. Is he running on investing in Staples? WTF was the broader message?
“Things aren’t what they appear to be”?
What a weird, weird thing to focus on. He lies constantly and no one knows where he stands.
So he chose “things aren’t what they appear to be”?
Frankensteinbeck
@Cacti:
That’s true. Obama taking out Bin Laden is an unforgivable contradiction of one of their favorite narratives. Republicans HAVE to be big, strong, and tough. The punditariat desperately needs the OBL takedown to not have happened.
@slag:
Issues Bad, also a journalistic favorite.
@Brian R.:
Thankfully, so true.
shortstop
@mistermix: no kidding. Way to miss the point by a continent.
gaz
@General Stuck: lol.
General Stuck
@eemom:
That’s some primo snark, eemom. well played!!
Cacti
@eemom:
He can bathe them with his tears, then moisturize them with his semen.
GregB
Mitt Romney is the field marshal in the War on Truth.
I have never seen such a mendacious human in my life.
Anya
@Freddie deBoer: <:-)
gaz
@kay:
When he figures that out, I’m sure he’ll let us know. And tomorrow, when he figures it out * again * he’ll let us know again. And on monday, when he figures it out * again * …
I’m sure you know the drill by now. =)
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
fuck no, no gop’er would have made that decision, they all respect pakistani soverignty just too damned much to have done what was needed. oh, and pakistani lobbying dollars in the case of mccain advisors.
Kane
If the previous administration can claim that they kept the country safe after ignoring the warnings of what would be the deadliest attack on American soil, the Obama administration can remind voters of the successful mission that took out Bin Laden.
It’s not indecorous or unbecoming to trumpet the killing of Bin Laden. If the mission had failed, we all know that President Obama’s opponents would be bashing him over the head for his decision in perpetuity.
GregB
Piss off your wingnut friends and family by telling them that the last time the US had a GOP President with a GOP House the United States suffered the worst attack in our history.
9/11 changed everything mofos!
Mino
You gotta wonder what the Republican will do for a candidate in 2016 if they are unsuccessful this go-round.
Mittens is the last plausible quasi-moderate left in the party.
JEB!, Christie, et al have no public record of even semi-moderate behavior. Are they gonna draft Charlie Christ?
Brachiator
@amk:
Shit, I am waiting for the mainstream pundit who will write that the uppity Obama has no right to campaign at all, and who will angrily snort about Obama upsetting Mittens delicate sensibilities.
And Romney will just eat this shit up. “Here’s a president who does nothing but attack, attack, attack, while we are nothing but dignified white folk trying to save America.”
Cacti
@kay:
Romney doesn’t seem to have much strategy beyond flinging shit like an enraged gibbon.
gaz
@eemom:
Agreed. He just needs to run on his record. The screeching is becoming counter-productive for the screechers. He just needs to tune it out. Pretty sure he knows this, which is probably part of the reason he’s such a great campaigner.
bcinaz
Let’s see, President Obama started looking in Pakistan immediately after his inauguration, authorized the training of one elite SEAL team and gave them the go ahead to kill OBL who was actually responsible for killing 3000 Americans on 9/11. George Bush told everybody a bunch of big fat lies about Saddam Hussein then used the entire military apparatus and a trillion dollars to kill him. Then kept Saddam’s gun as a souvenir. And had to remind us all what a Success Iraq was by landing on an aircraft carrier.
Contrast in leadership, I’d say.
gaz
@Cacti: Enraged gibbons are cute, at least.
Culture of Truth
@kay: Right now he’s running as rich, white, handsome, big-shouldered rich guy so naturally he should be President. But there’s no ‘there’ there, so of course he must bring down the President.
If Obama not a good President, or Romney were better candidate (1980?) this might work. But those does not apply, so it isn’t.
dmsilev
@kay:
“I deserve to be President.”
Seriously, the one position that Romney has unswervingly adhered to over the last 8 or so years is “Mitt Romney should be President”.
Mino
@kay: That was an amazing performance. Republican tacticians be reeling after that. Can they just lock him up and run ads against Obama.
dmsilev
@Kane:
No, not all. See, in foreign policy, the first year or two of an administration doesn’t count and anything that happens is due to the previous administration. Therefore, 9/11 was Clinton’s fault and Bush deserves the credit for killing bin Laden. This should be contrasted with domestic issues, where the new administration gets credited or blamed for events in the last couple of years of the previous one. Thus, Bush is responsible for the late-90s boom and the budget surplus, but Obama is to blame for the collapse of the housing bubble.
rlrr
Yet, it was OK for the Republicans to politicize 9/11…
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Obama Administration needs to replay the video of this. And yeah, drive the point home by showing he crowds outside the White House celebrating when bin Laden’s death was announced.
Cacti
@dmsilev:
The best description I’ve heard came from the mouth of the blessed matron Ann Romney:
“It’s our turn”
That’s really all it’s about. Bored rich guy wants to cross “POTUS” off his bucket list before entering his dotage.
Kane
Ended the war in Iraq
Began drawdown of war in Afghanistan
Toppled Moammar Gaddafi. No American lives were lost.
Publicly called on Hosni Mubarak to step down.
Ended Bush-era torture policies.
Tightened sanctions on Iran.
New START Treaty.
Improved America’s image abroad.
Ordered rescue mission of American sea captain, taking out three Somali pirates.
Ordered rescue mission of American and Dane reflief workers, taking out nine Somali kindnappers.
Kept us safe from another 9/11 type attack.
Which of these decisions has made have harmed our national security?
Kane
Ended the war in Iraq
Began drawdown of war in Afghanistan
Toppled Moammar Gaddafi. No American lives were lost.
Publicly called on Hosni Mubarak to step down.
Ended Bush-era torture policies.
Tightened sanctions on Iran.
New START Treaty.
Improved America’s image abroad.
Ordered rescue mission of American sea captain, taking out three Somali pirates.
Ordered rescue mission of American and Dane reflief workers, taking out nine Somali kindnappers.
Kept us safe from another 9/11 type attack.
Which of these decisions has harmed our national security?
gaz
@Kane: ummm. YOUR LEGS ARE STUPID!
/standard GOP response.
Southern Beale
God, I’m so old I remember endless puffery about how there hadn’t been a terrorist attack since 9/11 thanks to Bush. And that claim wasn’t even fucking true.
Whatever, so sick of our bullshit discourse.
In the meantime, here’s some good news in my weekly progress report …
Brachiator
@Mino:
But the GOP purged all their moderates and went all Tea Party. They continue to insist on an ideological purity based on creationism, right wing authoritarianism, and bigotry.
And while the Republicans look for a candidate, like a Romney or a McCain who can put a happy pseudo moderate face on their insanity, they insist upon someone who will give them their heart’s desire.
I don’t know why Beltway pundits and others insist that Romney is going to pivot toward the center or try to seriously appeal to moderates. This is as dopey as those pundits who say that people should ignore the extremist right wing shit that Republicans do and concentrate on the economy.
The GOP convinced themselves that they had to stand firm to their principles and kicked out anyone who suggested otherwise. This is who they are. They are not going to change in 2016.
A better question. If Obama gets re elected, what will the Democrats do to keep the ball rolling in 2016?
Roger Moore
@kay:
Unlimited Corporate Cash!
Frankensteinbeck
A question just occurred to me. The glorification of Bush and McCain among the journalistic class was blatantly homoerotic (not that there’s anything wrong with that, except when you’re trying to pass it off as journalism). We have an actually attractive president now. Shouldn’t they be howling at the moon?
@Brachiator:
No, I think Mitt will definitely tack to the center, and is already doing so. In the process, he will piss off his base and a lot of them won’t vote at all. He will also try to throw lumps of red meat to his base, and moderate swing voters will be horrified by the insanity coming out of his mouth and vote for Obama, and possibly all down the Democratic ticket. Everything he does will lose him more voters than it gains. He’s just a lousy campaigner. He got this far because his opponents were insane, underfunded, and wildly, ‘I have no campaign staff’ incompetent – and he barely beat them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mino: Christie appointed a Muslim judge and publicly mocked anti-Sharia laws. And in a world where David Gregory describes Obama’s economic policy as “class warfare” with a straight face, Christie’s plan to gut Social Security and Medicare is just common sense. Jebbie, who IIRC as governor publicly prayed with Terri Schiavo’s parents and Brother Theodore, is said to be a moderate because his stance on immigrants is less than rabid. This is enough for the green rooms and oped boards.
Linda Featheringill
@gaz:
You’re cool! Will you be my neighbor?
slag
@rlrr:
9/11 was a failure that Republicans turned into an asset through emotional manipulation. Killing Osama Bin Laden could easily be considered an asset that Republicans and the “liberal” media now want to turn into a failure through emotional manipulation. What was so striking about the Obama ad was that there was very little overwrought emotion to it. I saw no burning towers. I didn’t even get the sense that we were supposed to be afraid while pondering Rmoney’s inevitable incompetence in that situation. Just that we were supposed to ponder Rmoney’s inevitable incompetence in that situation. Which is totally fair game.
Nellcote
@kay:
He’ll get back to you on that.
Southern Beale
Jeb. Because the hope is by then, the Bush stench will have subsided somewhat.
Good luck with that.
Svensker
@kay:
Fumes?
slag
@Southern Beale: That was some good news.
rlrr
@Brian R.:
While we’re at it, he also killed some pirates…
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
Pundits and others think that it is sufficient for a candidate to talk moderate. Romney’s problem is that he actually governed as a moderate, but has actively repudiated his own accomplishments and past policies. And the Republicans still expect their Tea Party enforcers to push their leaders to the right.
So, tacking to the center is meaningless to anyone but Villagers who confuse political kabuki with actual governing.
Also, too, I don’t know whether many of the conservative base will not vote at all. The GOP has done a pretty good job in whipping up fear and trembling against Obama. This will help drive conservative sheep to the polls no matter what Romney says or promises.
Kane
I recall a different reality with some Republicans refusing to acknowledge that President Obama was deserving of any credit.
It just kills some people on the right that President Obama ordered the successful mission to take out Bin Laden. The mere act of writing “the President deserves credit” must have been quite painful.
FlipYrWhig
Does anyone else remember that the video they played at the RNC in 2004 was all about how great it was that George Bush threw an accurate ceremonial first pitch at the 2001 World Series in New York? Or Giuliani saying he turned to Kerik and said, “Thank God George Bush is our president”? Also, McCain might want to study up on what the word “hypocrisy” means.
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
They are grumbling a LOT. They don’t like Romney, they’ve been fed the lie that they should be represented by lunatics like themselves (Santorum, anyone?) and their turnout in the primaries reflects this. Will they desert en masse? Hell, no. Two or three percent of them failing to show up, a perfectly reasonable number, would be cataclysmic for the GOP.
danielx
I don’t recall that the Times or any other major media outlet had any real issues with “Mission Accomplished” or “manly characteristics”. At least not until it became evident some years later that said mission was not only not accomplished but had been based on bullshit and lies in the first place. Also gave prime front page space to Judith (I Was Proved Fucking Right) Miller well after her sell-by date and continues to give prime editorial space to Tom (Suck On This) Friedman of Friedman Unit fame. The Times didn’t have a problem with the political nature of their writings at the time of those writings, and in Friedman’s case still doesn’t. Hell, it doesn’t even have a problem with the fact that Friedman is frequently outright wrong.
As to John (I Was A POW) McCain having a problem with politicization of accomplishments or for that matter the lack thereof, the less said the better. Not to belittle his record, but getting shot down and taken prisoner is not that hard. It was accomplished by somewhere between a thousand and two thousand men during the Vietnam War and by tens of thousands during WW 2. But what of it? Every politician uses his accomplishments as political fodder. Why not, his opponents use his failures and mistakes (real and imagined) as political clubs. By the way, do you know John McCain was a POW?
Concern trolling by the Times or John McCain over politicization of a successful mission? Be still my heart. If Osama Bin Laden had been killed during the Bush-Cheney regime, they’d be carving George Bush’s face on Mount Rushmore this very minute.
Also. Too. Fuck them and concern trolls in general, especially those of the Villager variety. Because why? Because fuck them.
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When it comes to teabaggers, I don’t think actual actions matter as much as tone. If Christie keeps behaving like as much of an abraisive bully as he has up to this point, especially towards unions and gays, I could easily see the base forgiving him his Muslim moments.
Meanwhile, the MSM will point to them as proof of his Very Serious Person cred.
Yeah, I think it will be Christie. I also think he’s better placed than any of their current candidates.
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When it comes to teabaggers, I don’t think actual actions matter as much as tone. If Christie keeps behaving like as much of an abraisive bully as he has up to this point, especially towards unions and gays, I could easily see the base forgiving him his Muslim moments.
Meanwhile, the MSM will point to them as proof of his Very Serious Person cred.
Yeah, I think it will be Christie. I also think he’s better placed than any of their current candidates.
danielx
@Brachiator:
Actually, Villagers generally believe that political kabuki is actual governing.
MikeJ
If the mission had failed we’d be trying to decide who would run as a Dem this year, what with Biden being to damaged by association with Obama, who had been forced to step down or face impeachment.
Clime Acts
Before the Obama campaign claims awesome macho status for having killed OBL, they ought to at least show us some evidence that they actually, you know…KILLED him, right?
I mean, the death pics would be a good place to start, but no…the republic will not survive the publication of those pics because…something something…
Weird.
AkaDad
Killing bin Laden just shows that Obama is uppity.
dmsilev
@Clime Acts: If they published those photos, you’d be out there claiming that they were Photoshopped.
Don’t bother trying to deny it.
Chyron HR
@Clime Acts:
Just so we’re sure, you’re repeating these Republican talking points verbatim from THE LEFT, right? Because you’re such a True Progressive and all.
Mino
I think when Chrisie gets through with New Jersey he will be unelectable. The economies of states with Republican governors are falling further and further behind their neighbors.
WhoopTDu
Jed Lewison’s diary at DKOS about McCain politicizing 911 at the Republican National Convention in 2008.
http://bit.ly/KiGggn
Foregone Conclusion
@Clime Acts:
Al-Qaeda acknowledged that they’d got Bin Laden. Unless there’s some sort of nefarious agreement between the Democratic National Committee and Al-Qaeda, what would be the point except offering ghoulish entertainment for snuff-flick addicts?
Tractarian
@kay:
This. The more the media is talking about the OBL raid, the better.
The Obama campaign needs to not fall into the trap of actually believing that there are voters out there who think it’s “unseemly” to campaign on your record.
Cacti
@Foregone Conclusion:
You’d have to include Republicans as part of it too.
Noted Obama fan James Inhofe (R-OK) described the photos as “pretty gruesome” and that the head wound “either entered or exited an ear.”
So either Dems, Reps, and Al Qaeda are all in cahoots, or he’s actually dead. There’s no third possibility.
dmsilev
@Foregone Conclusion: The only way a false announcement of Osama’s death would make any sense is if the US captured him alive and didn’t want al Qaeda to know that he was being interrogated. But, since it was announced pretty much from day one of the raid that there was a substantial intelligence haul from computers and files and so forth, that doesn’t make much sense either.
Clime Acts
@dmsilev:
Actually, like skeptical people everywhere, I’d leave the inevitable photoshop analysis to the experts, read up on it and come to some conclusion.
If they are credible, I have no problem at all acknowledging OBL’s death. It’s just very bogus that the gov is withholding the pics, even after a Judicial Watch lawsuit, which a judge turned down. Notably, in his ruling, the judge did not say WHY he was turning JW down, just that he was.
Interesting…
Clime Acts
@Chyron HR:
YOU are the one obsessed with R talking points. Don’t keep tabs myself.
Clime Acts
@Foregone Conclusion:
Proof of death.
An ancient and honored concept.
Um…don’t really trust AQ.
Admit it…the whole “we had to throw the body in the deepest part of the ocean asap” is kind of…fishy.
Clime Acts
@Cacti:
Great! If the noted moran Inhofe can see the OBL pics, we should be able to see them too, don’t you think.
I believe in transparent, accountable government. I wish you did too.
Sentient Puddle
Next thing we know, Clime Acts will be saying he isn’t totally convinced that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job.
Clime Acts
There’s a simple calculation to be made: If Bush the Golden Child had claimed to have killed OBL under the same circumstances and refused to release proof of same, would you be satisfied with that?
If so, you are a moran.
If not, you should hold Obama to the same standard. It’s simple.
Because you know…it’s not like there’s any history of the U.S. government lying to us.
Clime Acts
@Sentient Puddle:
Anyone who claims to be “totally convinced” about anything involving 9/11 is a credulous tool.
Which most Americans are of course, so there ya go…
Yutsano
@Sentient Puddle: @Clime Acts: You win SP. But remember: only Special Timmeh is special enough to see DA TROOF!!
Brachiator
@Clime Acts:
This isn’t skepticism, it’s just typical misdirection and nonsense on your part.
You don’t hear gran pappy McCain or the other GOP stooges ruminating whether bin Laden is still holed up somewhere.
Your deatherism speculations do little more than make you Chief Stooge.
Mnemosyne
@Cacti:
Don’t forget that the Pakistani government is in on the conspiracy, too, since they made a formal complaint to the State Department.
So the list of conspirators includes Democrats, Republicans, al-Qaeda, and the government of Pakistan. Yeah, it’s completely logical and rational to believe that all of those groups are conspiring together to pretend that bin Laden is dead.
It’s exactly as logical as believing that the state of Hawaii, the FBI, the State Department, and the Department of Education are all conspiring to conceal the fact that Obama was actually born in Kenya.
ETA: Also, too, don’t forget that the entire international media — including al-Jazeera, the Guardian UK, the New York Times, and the Pakistan Times — are all in on the conspiracy, too.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
I see your point, but I never count ballots before they are cast.
We don’t know who the VP pick is yet. In 2008, Palin’s selection did much to energize a lot of GOP voters who were distinctly unhappy that McCain was the presidential pick.
The GOP leadership is aware of their problems. The campaign season is barely underway.
Clime Acts
@Yutsano:
Kind of the opposite of my position, actually, but whatever.
Clime Acts
@Brachiator:
Would you accept this story from the Bush administration?
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
So he’s dead. So why not release the photos to prove it?
To avoid hurting fee fees? hahaha
We saw photos of mutilated Hussein boys, Sadam, and Kadafi. Why not OBL?
We’re too delicate?
Baud
@Clime Acts: God, I hope the Republicans take a cue from you and campaign on whether Osama was actually killed.
Clime Acts
@Baud:
Can’t give me a coherent answer, eh?
You’re right…it doesn’t wash.
Baud
@Clime Acts:
Not worth the effort.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
What’s the matter, is that footage of Saddam being decapitated by an incompetent hangman not getting you off anymore?
IIRC, none of that footage was released by the US government. It was released by the Iraqi government (remember them?) and by the news media. So I guess that means that Saddam isn’t really dead, either, since the US government refused to release their footage of his execution.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
Try making a coherent argument first. Claiming that there’s a grand international conspiracy where the US government, the government of Pakistan, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban all cooperated together to fake the death of bin Laden is not quite as logical and rational as you seem to think.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Can’t really answer my question, eh?
Why can’t we see OBL’s proof of death?
If all you’ve got is insults, save it.
Clime Acts
@Baud:
hahahaha…
being a credulous Bot must be exhausting. So much repression of instincts.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Typical misdirection from you, Mem.
Rather than address my question: Why can’t we see the proof of death of the greatest single mass murderer of Americans in the greatest single epic attack on American soil in history that took down the most iconic skyscrapers in the nation and tramatized the population, leading to two wars and hundreds of thousands of deaths?
Why can’t the death of that monster be proven to us by the simple release of photos?
Didn’t say anything about conspiracies; just asked one central question which you can’t answer, so you expand and obfuscate. You should be embarrassed.
jncc
I really hope that Obama drills Romney with this again and again during the debates.
eemom
@Clime Acts:
Timmy, Timmy, quite contrary, how do your flame wars grow?
I’ll venture a “why not”: the photos would be used to martyrize OBL among his supporters and for recruitment purposes.
No doubt you’ll scoff at that, but I find it plausible.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
The US government never releases that kind of footage. Why are you demanding a change in the policy of the last 80 years (at least) just so you can satisfy your morbid curiosity?
Rev. Dada Grind
I bet Clime Acts also wants to see the REAL birth certificate, too.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
We never saw the proof of death of Hitler, either. I guess that proves that Hitler is still alive and claims by the Allies that he was dead were all faked, amirite?
Mnemosyne
Also, too, by Timmy’s standards, no one in Japan was ever executed for war crimes, because there were no photographs of the executions or the bodies:
Wow, this conspiracy just gets bigger and bigger! Tell us, Timmy, has anyone ever been killed by the US government if no photograph exists of their body, or are they all being kept in secret prisons somewhere?
Clime Acts
@Rev. Dada Grind:
Typical Bot misdirection also too.
Actually, I don’t give two shits where Obama was born. I’m fine with him being president one way or the other. Matters not a whit to me. I’ll let that be your obsession.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
The US government never releases that kind of footage. Why are you demanding a change in the policy of the last 80 years (at least) just so you can satisfy your morbid curiosity
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-sons-photos_x.htm
OK, you were saying…?
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Still can’t answer my question, can you dear: Why no OBL death pics?
If anything, the Hitler case supports my reasoning. All the MORE reason to release photos.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Still unwilling to answer my very simple question, eh, Mem?
Expand and obfuscate, the Mem answer to most things.
eemom
@Clime Acts:
I answered your question and you ignored it.
Sheesh.
Note also, the martyr thing wasn’t an issue in the case of the Husseins.
Clime Acts
@eemom:
Good grief, eemer, give me a chance to catch up with mem’s assaults, ok? :D
I don’t buy the recruitment/martyr thing. As if the carnage of two wars in the ME and all the attendant atrocities aren’t enough recruiting ammo for AQ already? Please. PLUS the fact that the POSITIVE effects of the firm knowledge among the American populace that OBL was dealt with, and the attendant morale boost/macho image boost worldwide would far outweigh any negatives.
I mean, supposedly, AQ already knows the U.S. wasted their “leader,” what diff does a picture make to them?
Clime Acts
@eemom:
Not true. PLENTY of Baathists remaining in Iraq at that time to piss off.
Brachiator
@Clime Acts:
Complete non sequitur. It’s not about either the Bush Administration or the Obama Administration. It’s about your stupidity and idiotic assertion that bin Laden is not dead unless you have personally been shown the photos.
But please write to Romney and see if you can get him to embrace deatherism. And while you’re at it, ask him if his church has re baptized bin Laden as a Mormon.
Clime Acts
@Brachiator:
Actually, it’s about your idiotic and stupid willingness to believe anything the government tells you sans evidence.
Brachiator
@Clime Acts:
Well, no. You are sounding more and more hysterical, like conspiracy nuts who don’t believe that Oswald killed Kennedy, or that Americans never landed on the moon. Or that Saddam had WMDs.
You really need to take this up with the GOP. I would love to see Romney declare that he does not believe that bin Laden is dead. I would love to see the entire Republican leadership declare that they do not believe the classified briefings they received about the operation to get bin Laden.
Instead, all we have is your dopey deatherism, in which everything hinges on a single document, a photograph which must be seen and validated by you, and only you.
Are you really Donald Trump, posting under a pen name? Because you have achieved the same level of nuttiness.
So, where were we? Oh, yeah, stupid criticisms of Obama’s commander-in-chiefiness.
Clime Acts
@Brachiator:
Wow. Your willful obtusity is astounding.
Duly noted. Carry on.
Clime Acts
@Brachiator:
So…you believe Sadam had WMDs?
Given your credulous stance on OBL/Obama, that makes sense, actually…
asiangrrlMN
My favorite pie filter quote so far.
This is all just a buncha bullshit, and we all know W. would have been doing a victory lap in his flight suit, taking out a hundred ads, and crowing far and wide had he been the one to issue a successful kill order on OBL.
I’m not crowing about OBL’s death, but it is a major accomplishment.
Oh, and fuck Grampy McCain with my rusty pitchfork™. What a sore loser.
Clime Acts
@asiangrrlMN:
Totally agree. So why do you think they won’t release proof of death to prove it happened?
LosGatosCA
Karl Rove wrote the
bookslide deck on that back in 2002 and 2004. Jam colored natural security threat chart right up their fat, out of shape, cellulite ridden ass.amk
birther, deather and racist pig – a 3fer – Victory!
Clime Acts
@amk:
ah…dear pathetic amk with its usual convincing arsenal of carefully reasoned rebuttals.
Take your thorazine, dear.
amk
dumb asses just assume every insult is about them.
Clime Acts
@amk:
Thorazine, precious.
Pepe
Clime Acts, I don’t think anybody particularly cares that you think that OBL is among the living. You maintain that OBL wasn’t killed? Fine.
But know htat OBL’s widows say otherwise. As do the Congressmen and Senators of both parties that have seen the death photos. As does Al Queda. As does Pakistan. As does SEAL Team 6. As does everyone except conspiracy theory nuts.
But you think OBL is alive. Fine, you have every right to believe whatever you want.
Clime Acts
@Pepe:
I think that I can’t believe the U.S. government just because it says so, or trots out the alleged statements of others to back up its assertion, when it could very easily go a lot further to provide concrete evidence.
My best guess is that OBL was dead for some time and this raid was a charade to close the book on that silliness.
I am comfortable not knowing for sure. Not knowing is OK. Uncertainty about things is a fact of life.
But to pretend that because the u.s. fucking lying government says something makes it so is absurd.
It’s the sheep like thinking on this blog and throughout the U.S. population that led to most people believing in Sadam’s WMDs too.