People don’t kill people; hoodies kill people.
Well, this is a new twist on victim blaming. Usually we’re busy telling women not to wear such short skirts, or not to get too drunk lest they get raped. Now, apparently, we’re telling black and Latino youth not to wear hooded sweatshirts because it might-could get you shot in the chest by some lunatic vigilante who has a problem with those “assholes” who “always get away”:
GERALDO RIVERA: Well, I have a different take, Brian, on that. I believe that George Zimmerman, the overzealous neighborhood watch captain should be investigated to the fullest extent of the law and if he is criminally liable, he should be prosecuted. But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.
JULIET HUDDY (guest-host): What do you mean?
RIVERA: When you, when you see a kid walking — Juliet — when you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark skinned kid like my son Cruz, who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles. Take that hood off, people look at you and they — what do they think? What’s the instant identification, what’s the instant association?
STEVE DOOCY (co-host): Uh-oh.
RIVERA: It’s those crime scene surveillance tapes. Every time you see someone sticking up a 7-11, the kid is wearing a hoodie. Every time you see a mugging on a surveillance camera or they get the old lady in the alcove, it’s a kid wearing a hoodie. You have to recognize that this whole stylizing yourself as a gangsta, you’re gonna be a gangsta wannabe? Well, people are going to perceive you as a menace. That’s what happens. It is an instant reflexive action. Remember Juan Williams, our colleague? Our brilliant colleague? He got in trouble with NPR because he said Muslims in formal garb at the airport conjure a certain reaction in him or response in him? That’s an automatic reflex. Juan wasn’t defending it. He was explaining that that’s what happens when he sees these particular people in that particular place.
When you see a black or Latino youngster, particularly on the street, you walk to the other side of the street. You try to avoid that confrontation. Trayvon Martin’s you know, god bless him, he’s an innocent kid, a wonderful kid, a box of Skittles in his hand. He didn’t deserve to die. But I’ll bet you money, if he didn’t have that hoodie on, that — that nutty neighborhood watch guy wouldn’t have responded in that violent and aggressive way.
DOOCY: What about the fact that — I mean, the people of New York, a couple of nights ago, they had a “Million Hoodie March.” You’re not helping.
RIVERA: You can not rehabilitate the hoodie. You’re not going to — I understand that the reaction might be overzealous or even irrational in some extent, I mean, when you look at the statistics. It may be. But you’re not going to rehabilitate the hoodie. You’re not going to —
DOOCY: Just stop wearing it.
RIVERA: Stop wearing it! Don’t let your kid — you know the old Johnny Cash song, don’t take your gun to town, son. Leave your gun at home. There is some things that are almost inevitable. I’m not suggesting that Trayvon Martin had any kind of weapon or anything, but he wore an outfit that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way and if he had been dressed more appropriately, I think unless it’s raining out, or you’re at a track meet, leave the hoodie home. Don’t let your children go out there.
There is so much fail in Rivera’s comments, one hardly knows where to begin.
It doesn’t matter what you are a wearing. You have a right to walk in your own neighborhood wearing whatever the fuck you want without getting shot.
Whether it was raining or not is irrelevant. Whether Trayvon was returning home from a track meet or not is irrelevant. (And really? A track meet?)
Millions of people — black, white, Latino, male, and female — wear hoodies. They’re comfortable. I have a hoodie sweatshirt dress that I practically live in. I’m wearing it right now. And it’s above the knee. ::gasp:: So I guess when I leave the house with my hoodie dress on, I’m just begging to be shot and raped. Is that it?
Mr. Rivera, you are an unconscionable asshole and you should apologize to Trayvon Martin’s parents for your insensitive comments, and you should go ahead an apologize to humanity for existing.
UPDATE: Geraldo couldn’t stop digging:
So now he’s not just blaming Trayvon for wearing a hoodie, he’s tsk-tsking Trayvon’s parents for not understanding the risk of being a kid of color. You see, if only they’d had Geraldo Rivera’s sage words on “the risk that comes with being a kid of color in America” then maybe they would have raised Trayvon differently. It’s just so damn sad that Geraldo has to be the one reminding black parents how to raise their kids, isn’t it?
I swear, this fucking guy…
[via Media Matters]
[cross-posted at ABLC]
shortstop
And quit wearing those short skirts, ladies, or your rapes will be on you.
Rivera’s remarks are, of course, unconscionable in and of themselves. But didn’t I read somewhere that Martin didn’t even have the hoodie pulled up when Zimmerman started following him?
MattF
Also, parents should not have children with the wrong skin color.
Keith
The classic part was where Geraldo tries to absolve himself of any charges of stereotyping by saying he also has a problem with *his* son wearing one.
Bullsmith
Florida’s tourism industry must be overjoyed about all this. Sure sounds like a great place to visit.
handy
Guns don’t kill! Hoodies do!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
I got nothin. But I’d like to break a chair over the face of Jerry Rivers. the fuck. How bout if the actual shooter left his gun at home?
AA+ Bonds
I think this is a good point, in that Steve Doocy would probably stalk and shoot a black kid too if he could get away with it
Wag
Damn right Geraldo
Leave your f*cjkng gun at home.
Just don’t blame the victim
lamh35
I posted this in the previous thread, but it fits here.
Obama: ‘If I Had A Son, He Would Look Like Trayvon’
Ya know what, I don’t care if idiots try to make hay out of what the POTUS said. First of all, genetics is pretty straight forward, barring some anomaly (albinism), if POTUS and FLOTUS had a son what the hell would he look like? I certainly don’t expect a child of their to look like Santorum’s. So yeah, is they had a son, they’d probably superficially look like a Black child!
2nd, it was a very measured response. he made sure he mentioned that he is part of the executive branch, it is the DOJ who has direct involvement in the case and he wants to be careful that what he says does not reflect or harm the DOJ investigation in any way.
The statement was pitch-darn-perfect.
POTUS is darned if he does and darned if he doesn’t, so it’s way better for him to be on the good foot than not.
Napoleon
So in other words any black kid dressing other then as Steve Urkel would dress is asking for it.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Hoodie is the new black (skin).
I think I’ll go buy a really threatening looking hoodie. Some other caller to police: “Yeah, I just shot a 42 year old white male because he was wearing a threatening hoodie.”
dmsilev
Just to add a bit to the utter jackassery on display here, it should be noted that it was in fact raining at the time, and so by Geraldo’s own “logic” hoodies should be on the approved “Do Not Murder” list.
c u n d gulag
So, listen-up you Black and Hispanic kid -, don’t wear a “hoodie” when you go out, or you’ll end up like women who go out in short skirts – only shot, instead of raped.
Apparently, to Conservatives, you are what you wear!
“Hoodies” = a “hood.”
And short skirts, or short-shorts = tramp, slut, street-walker.
In which case, I must still be a jock – since I mostly wear sweat pants in the winter, shorts in the summer, and sneakers year-round.
Only, if that’s the case, why is February a good time in the 40 yard dash for me nowadays?
gex
Even if you take this seriously, all it’s done is move the debate from “You shouldn’t just be allowed to kill black people whenever you want to you shouldn’t be able to kill hoodie wearers whenever you want.”
I mean, even if he really believes that, what is he trying to say? No one should wear hoodies because there are assholes who like to shoot at people wearing hoodies?
Is this like how we should just ban abortion because Christians will never accept legal abortion and we’re just forcing them to murder doctors?
beltane
Ladies and gentlemen, if your child isn’t wearing a sweater vest and bow-tie he is just begging to be murdered in cold blood.
pathman
Hey ABL, Mike Malloy read your post about that crazy congresswoman from Washington on his show last night. Cool stuff.
Satanicpanic
Trayvor would have just as likely been shot if he were wearing a cowboy hat and tight jeans. Maybe more so.
D. Mason
I dunno, his statement seemed pretty clear that he wasn’t justifying the reaction he suggests people have to this particular garment. I mean as a white guy, if I wear a confederate flag t-shirt in the wrong neighborhood, I’m gonna carry home an ass beating, rightfully so. In our country it’s just a fact that you can’t wear some things some places without a reasonable expectation that something bad will happen due to OTHER PEOPLES REACTIONS. Is Geraldo correct in his condemnation of the hoodie? Probably not. Is breaking some new ground in outrageous incorrectness? Not even for Geraldo, not even close. Is he blaming the victim? Doesn’t look that way to me. Sorry ABL 2.0 but my outrage meter is flatline right now.
RP
This is shocking. I was sure he’d go the skittles route.
Brachiator
Fuck Geraldo Rivera, and fuck the idea that an apology from him would mean a goddam thing.
@shortstop:
What the fuck difference would it have made?
Zimmerman appears to have been a hoppped up idiot itching to do something. From the 911 transcript he said that Martin appeared to be “up to no good,” maybe on drugs. Based on what? Zimmerman wasn’t a trained cop. His “observation” were stupidly meaningless, short of being weasel words for “black, therefore his existence must be suspect.”
He had no right to approach, stop or question Martin for any reason. By the tape, Zimmerman was not observed to be doing anything criminal. Period.
The idea that Martin’s clothing is some kind of shorthand for criminal behavior is criminally stupid.
eric
I wanted to joke “You will have to pry my hoodie from my cold dead hand….” but then it hit me that this is what Zimmerman wanted to do…to teach this “punk” a lesson, period. We know it wasn’t the hoodie that Zimmer saw, but the metaphoric “hood” he saw when he spied that poor child. Eff his murderous heart.
Ruckus
Geraldo.
A has been his entire life. And now crystal clear proof that he is an asshole as well.
lamh35
@D. Mason: it’s no different than saying that a woman wearing allegedly revealing or provacative clothing increases her likelihood of rape.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Geez, ABL, don’t you understand what Geraldo is trying to say? You can’t hold white people responsible for acting badly when people trigger their prejudices! I mean, how are white people supposed to control themselves under those circumstances? Obviously the minority, short skirt wearing woman, and gay person is responsible for freaking that poor white guy out!
Tonybrown74
If you watched the clip over at TPM, at the very end of it, he (Rivera) states that unless it is raining then black or latino [male] youth shouldn’t wear a hoodie … which negates his entire racist viewpoint anyway, since Travyon was wearing a hoodie, because it was raining …
This really is tiring …
ABL 2.0
*blank stare*
Some Guy
The grammar is especially appalling, “allowing” himself to be shot as if being shot at is like the wind kicking up on blustery day. Damn, better watch out for those bullets, they loves some hoodie!
And the inversion is just about as perfectly awful as it could be. Geraldo, trying to show his awareness of race basically says its a mad, mad, mad world and so if you don’t let the racists force you into dressing like their image of a “safe negro” then you are asking for it. So he gets to support racist fucks like Zimmerman while acting as if he being conscious about racism.
I seriously wonder what his son thinks of him after a comment like that. If it had been his own boy, would he be saying this shit? Blaming his own kid for being shot by a Zimmerman?
gnomedad
And if he had been naked, Zimmerman would have known he was unarmed, so it’s totally his fault for wearing clothes.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Brachiator: I know your MO these days is to come into threads figurative guns blazing, but shortstop’s was adding to the point that Rivera’s statement was full of shit.
The Dangerman
Bill Belichick is going to give Geraldo a beat down.
Brachiator
@D. Mason:
Martin was in his own neighborhood. What’s your point?
@beltane:
Had he been wearing a bow-tie, Zimmeran would have assumed he was a member of the Nation of Islam and shot him four times.
pk
You know what would really have saved Trayvon? If he had been born to white parents.
SP
@Dangerman beat me to it, but I bet Belichick was never called a wannabe gangsta. I’m trying to think what’s different between him and Trayvon, help me out here Mr. Rivera…
gnomedad
@lamh35:
Winger whining about “playing the race card” in 3, 2, …
grape_crush
A kid wearing a hoodie is a bad mofo, but some chucklehead who’s openly carrying a firearm? Not threatening in the slightest.
JD Rhoades
I occasionally wear a hooded sweatshirt in cool weather when walking the dog. I had no idea how risky it was.
Satanicpanic
@D. Mason: You’re not seriously comparing an article of clothing that pretty much everyone, regardless of age/gender/ethnicity wears and the confederate flag, are you?
Beauzeaux
@D. Mason:
Confederate flag = hoodie sweatshirt.
No. You lose.
maya
IIRC, Trayvon didn’t even pop-up the hood of his hoodie until after he noticed that someone was following him. Great investigative reporting there Gerwaldo. Isn’t there a locked vault somewhere that requires your attention?
shortstop
@Brachiator: Man, your reading comprehension is worse than usual today, and that’s saying something.
You neatly skipped the part where I said Rivera’s comments were unconscionable in and of themselves. My short skirt-rape analogy should have enlightened you if you were still having trouble.
scav
At Geraldo’s post mortem I’ve no doubt they’ll open the skull and find it in a state similar to Capone’s safe. In his world, like FL (America’s Playground, Take the Kids!), one is rightfully no safer than the most nervous armed person in the vicinity feels like.
AA+ Bonds
@D. Mason:
LOL, pro-am my brother
Petorado
I’m floored at how conservatives think the optics of things is the be all and end all of everything. The better looking candidate is the best. A good photo op hides all sins. Hoodies absolve shooters of their crime of murder.
The very act of thinking is unnecessary when a visual image is all that’s needed to guide your actions. Who needs a brain when primitive reactions rule the world?
Tonybrown74
@ABL 2.0:
I had the exact same reaction when I read that …
Liberty60
So I saw this guy drive through our neighborhood in a 4 wheel drive with a Confederate flag in the window. He had a buzzcut and some tattoos.
So I took out my shotgun and shot him, figuring he must be one of those dangerous militia type guys.
And anyways, if a guy doesn’t want to get shot he shouldn’t go around looking like a militia guy.
Also, too, I was kind of afraid, so there’s that.
Brachiator
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
The question of whether Martin’s hood was up or down is irrelevant. I didn’t question or disagree with shortstop’s other points.
taylormattd
@D. Mason:
Are you a fucking moron? Since when is a confederate flag t-shirt like a fucking hoodie?
Dumb as a sack of hammers.
JR (Not the other JR)
@Napoleon: Nope. Urkel, too.
Bubblegum Tate
The wingnut version of the story that I’m seeing now is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman first. According to wingnuts, “Zimmerman was first viciously attacked, was then lying on the ground with a stranger on top of him beating him in the face while he pleaded for someone to help him, and then in desperation shot his attacker.”
It really is unbelievable that they can just make stuff up out of whole cloth like that, and then absolutely believe it. I hope somebody does an in-depth psychological study of the wingnut capacity for self-delusion.
Killjoy
@D. Mason: Is there some cash award for being obtuse that I’m not familiar with?
Mark S.
Christ, when I read shit like this, I feel like the guy in American Beauty who is transfixed by a fucking bag blowing in the wind.
There’s so much stupid in the world
some guy
The Right will throw everything they can think ogf against the wall to see if it will stick.
he should not have been wearing a hoodie.
he should not have travelled by himself.
he should not have bought Skittles and Iced Tea.
he should not have walked away from his stalker.
he should not have called his girlfriend on his cell.
Fox News, and wingnuts in general, will try every single way they can think of to avoid saying “he should not have been black” because that would be racist, and they are not racists.
assholes.
Sloegin
@D. Mason: So wearing a t-shirt with an inciting symbol is equal to wearing a generic article of clothing? Wow.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
@lamh35:
This.
And because the President made this statement, anythimg from gas hoses like Geraldo barely earns an asterisk.
Oh, sure, the usual 27% will latch onto it, and will somehow find reason for umbrage in Obama’s remarks.
Doesn’t matter. The greater point has been made, and it is indelible.
May justice prevail.
gex
@Napoleon: That’s too Farrakhan looking to whites. There’s no winning approach because it’s designed for blacks to always lose. Much like gays they really would rather we didn’t exist.
@c u n d gulag: Yup. And those guys like Zimmerman wear fatigues and NFL replica jerseys. They’re elite forces who can run a 40 in 4.1.
beltane
@AA+ Bonds: It’s a shame there are any “right” places to wear that stupid symbol of treason in defense of slavery. This may come as a surprise to some, but the Confederate flag is not the banner of all white people, only the asshole contingent of white people.
PurpleGirl
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): You deserve an Internets for remembering that he began his career using the name “Jerry Rivers.”
D. Mason
@lamh35: It seems foolish to suggest that it doesn’t. That’s much different that suggesting that she is responsible for the other persons behavior. Obviously people who have an urge to rape/rob/kill are responsible for resisting those urges. My only point is that it is an obvious fact that we have to, as a society, avoid wearing certain garments due to the effect they have on other people. While I don’t think the hoodie falls into this category, or that he is correct, I also don’t think hes saying anything new or outrageous or blaming the victim. It really sounds more to me like he is on some personal bent about teenager fashion. In other words, not outrage worthy.
Robert
@c u n d gulag\:sweater vest=closet gay?
penpen
@gnomedad:
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/03/23/obama-plays-the-race-card-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon/
That was posted at 11am, so he only beat your prediction by a little over an hour, much too slow on the draw sir.
Culture of Truth
To paraphrase Jeffrey Toobin, in America we don’t yet have the death penalty for wearing a hoodie.
LanceThruster
@Napoleon:
No need to exclude Urkel. He’d be “asking for it” too.
Plenty o’ thugs wear shades.
[sigh]
shortstop
@Brachiator:
Duh, of course it is — to the reality of whether someone wearing one deserves to be shot, and no one here’s arguing that, so your indignant restatement of the facts is rather silly. It’s not, however, irrelevant to illustrating the full extent of how idiotic Rivera is. Taken at face value, even the reasons he gives are crap: it was raining and Martin wasn’t hooded when Zimmerman started following him.
I think you know all this, but you gotta be you and box shadows all day long in these threads.
Napoleon
@gex:
You have a point, Farrahkan does have a geeky look to him.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@D. Mason:
Talk about completely failing. You have every right to expect not to be beaten or shot, no matter who you are or what you are wearing or where you are walking. Any time this happens it is the fault of the person doing the beating.
scav
Imagine if anyone felt threatened by Wall Street bankers and went after anyone in a suit.
Culture of Truth
You didn’t bold this one, but wow. It’s inevitable now for an America (white, black, young?) to murdered for wearing a hoodie? okey dokey.
Brachiator
@shortstop:
I clearly had no problems with your other points, or I would have said so. Did you miss the part where I said “Fuck Geraldo?”
My point about the irrelevance of whether the hood was up or down was not just addressed to you, but to others in this thread.
shortstop
@scav: Well, I kind of do, but I prefer less physical means of pushing back.
DFH no.6
@D. Mason:
Sorry, bullshit. Because asshole Rivera said this (it was bolded above, how did you miss it?):
“I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”`
Most outrageous thing said this week? Probably not.
Pretty fucking outrageous, though.
Fuck Rivera, and fuck anyone defending what he said. Period.
beltane
When was the last time anyone was physically assaulted for wearing a Confederate flag T-shit or any other T-shit bearing symbols of white supremacism?
lamh35
I’m at work so can’t get on twitter, but there is a tweet supposedly from Gerald where he says: “my own son just wrote to say he’s ashamed of my position re hoodies – still I feel parents must do whatever they can to keep their kids safe”
If it is him, it’s nothing but a cop-out. His own son thinks he’s an idiot!
MattR
I think Geraldo meant to say that “the fear mongering we do at Fox News (and elsewhere in the media) about hoods wearing hoodies is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”
Scotty
My take is that Rivera was just trying to say that people will stereotype someone into a certain grouping depending on the clothing you are wearing. He just said it in a moronic fashion. Zimmerman stereotyped Martin’s skin color and wearing of a hoodie as being dangerous. That being said, the solution is not to discontinue wearing hoodies, it’s for stupid people like Zimmerman to not stereotype people based on their looks. If Rivera had said that it would have made sense.
D. Mason
@Sloegin: The word “inciting” seems pretty ticklish there. A Malcolm X t-shirt is every bit as inciting in some neighborhoods as a confederate flag shirt would be in others, but we still have freedom of speech and should be able to dress according to our views. I support the rights of anyone to wear whatever they want and would expect them to be secure in doing so but common sense tells me that doing so in the wrong place is probably going to have consequences regardless of what someone has the right to do under the law. If anyone disagrees with this basic point please let me know.
If we can agree that wearing something “inciting” can have consequences outside the law then the only thing left for discussion is what falls into the category of “inciting”. Geraldo seems to think that hoodies fall into this category, I disagree but am not outraged at his having said it. That’s all.
SuzyQ
There’s a mall in SE Penna that has a sign that says “No hoodies” I found it very offensive. Like, wtf? And I don’t even wear hoodies! But you best be sure I’m going to wear one now! And dare someone to tell me otherwise!
FU Geraldo!
scav
@shortstop: Very probably wise, all in all. It’s not quite the full Floridadome yet.
shortstop
@beltane: I’m sure it’s happened, because black men are Violent and Menacing.
Liberty60
@Brachiator:
From the moment that Zimmerman left his house that night, there was an almost certainty that someone was going to get shot.
Based on his actions and comments, he was hunting for criminals.
Once he spotted Trayvon, he was convinced that Trayvon was his quarry.
There really wasn’t anything Trayvon could have done or said to erase the certainty in Zimmerman’s mind.
Hoodie or not, walking or running, down this street or that, Zimmerman was intent on confronting and defeating Trayvon.
penpen
@DFH no.6: That’s a Bingo.
Chyron HR
@Liberty60:
You were Standing Your Ground, right? Then you’re innocent, congrats.
LGRooney
@c u n d gulag:
Hasn’t this always been the problem with the prejudiced? It’s not what you’re wearing, it’s your appearance, full stop. The perception in the eyes of the subject, not the object, is the right one, as long as the object can be defined as the “other” (the normative controlled) and the subject can somehow be associated with the “in crowd” (the normative controllers).
Culture of Truth
Here’s a good rule to live by: If even Steve Doocy thinks you sound like a murder-excusing racist asshole, time to shut up.
TK-421
@D. Mason:
I often find myself at odds with the community here at BJ, and I’m always prone to question my own beliefs on things as a result (i.e. ‘if many BJers disagree with me, is it possible that I’m just an idiot that doesn’t know s–t from shinola?’ etc)
But then I see your comment with this passage…
…and I’m reminded that no, this place is not a “lefty blog,” strictly speaking, and there are a lot of people with f–ked up/cruel opinions on the world here.
So while I’ll give the obligatory response to your hot mess of a comment by pointing out that:
A) Confederate Flag t-shirt =/= Hoodie
and
B) ass beating =/= shot and killed
I’ll also thank you for letting me feel better about myself. To wit: thank FSM I’m not like you.
khead
This thread is already loaded with win – Belichick, blank stares – and I suspect it will only get better.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
I’m considering spending some free time this weekend walking in a hoodie (hood fully deployed), carrying Arizona tea and skittles. But I’m thinking my fleece pastel aqua hoodie(a gift – I’d have gone for bright turquoise in actual sweats fabric) is too tame. Should I go with Belichik grey, or is black better? If it helps, I have bright auburn hair and a pale(winter) Irish skin tone.
J.D. Rhoades
@scav:
There are days, man, there are days….
shortstop
@scav: OT, are you loving this atmospheric day in Chicago? I adore the mist with the yellow-green leaves glowing through it. Spring is too wonderful.
@Culture of Truth: I took Doocy’s “uh oh” to be confirming Rivera: yeah, you see a hoodie and you immediately know the person wearing it is trouble. But maybe that’s because I’ll go to my death not having given Doocy credit for anything positive.
c u n d gulag
@Robert:
No!
Didn’t Mr. Rogers wear sweater-ves…
ZOMG!
lamh35
Again, I’m at work, but it appears Santorum and Romney have now weighed in on the Trayvon Martin case.
Once again, just like Sandra Fluke, Obama’s leading and the people who are auditioning for the leadership follow. These idjits had to wait for Obama to respond first.
Cowards!Romney, Santorum Comment On Trayvon Martin
After weeks of silence, candidates follow Obama’s statement
And these are the people who want to replace POTUS…?
Wordsmith
This is just the best advice, ever.
So – if you’re a white parent it’s okay that your kids wear a hoodie.
I did see Trayvon’s parents on with Matt Lauer, wherein Mr. Martin did say that Trayvon had his hoodie up because it was raining.
LGRooney
@scav: I told my wife a version of this last night. All blacks should now concealed carry and shoot at any light skin behind or in front of them because they are clearly under threat.
D. Mason
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Absolutely, but that’s a cold fucking comfort after I’ve been shot. It just doesn’t outrage me when someone says something off target based on a premise I already know to be true. I disagree with his inclusion of the hoodie into a category of clothing (that which “incites”) where I don’t think it belongs, but I won’t pretend to be blind to the existence of said category.
gex
Listen, the entire problem is, even if you take it at face value, why the hoodie could be the problem. And it still comes down to white people deciding to associate the hoodie with black people and to associate all of that with whatever the fuck they think about black people. (I really don’t want to put the thoughts in my head to even write them down.)
So it could be revealing tank tops on “urban” youth for all Rivera and Zimmerman care, it would still be gang wear and deserving of shoot first, answer all questions with SHUT UP THAT’S WHY later.
butler
Holy fuck! I’m wearing a hoodie right now!
SBJules
I’m a senior citizen woman at work wearing a hoodie. Should I take it off when I take my walk today? Geraldo is an idiot.
Felanius Kootea
@D. Mason:
Facepalm.
Generic article of clothing that every jogger in my neighborhood – white, brown, black, Asian wears especially when it’s cold in the morning or raining != whatever the hell it is you just ginned up.
Please stop being so tiresome.
J.D. Rhoades
@SuzyQ:
I see these all the time, particularly in convenience stores. I’ve walked in wearing my hooded sweatshirt a few times. No one’s ever said a word. Maybe because I’m a middle aged white guy, you think?
scav
@shortstop: OT reply, Yes, nice drippy day perfect with tea, the satisfaction of it actually feeling like spring again and the balcony getting rearranged for planting.
D. Mason
@TK-421: I’m super glad that comments on the internet are enough to inflate your ego properly.
Lawnguylander
Mike Lamb
@D. Mason: Maybe you should stop talking Champ. Take a break for a while.
Killjoy
@D. Mason: Is there a list of articles of clothing that people of color should avoid wearing so that they don’t have to worry about getting shot? I’d hate to be gunned down on my way to work because I’m wearing a brown polo shirt and Docker’s khakis. TIA
Comrade Dread
Uh… no. No, I don’t. I walk past them and they walk past me. Sometimes we say a variation of “Hello.”
And, I think if you genuinely feel that way, then perhaps that feeling is more likely the root problem of why Zimmerman felt the kid was a ‘threat’ than the fact that he was wearing a hoodie.
Also, I don’t know about where you live, but out here in L.A., you’re far more likely to die crossing the street than you are from a black or Latino kid.
J.D. Rhoades
@Lawnguylander:
Even if someone did, I’d expect the people who did it to be prosecuted for it.
JasperL
Geraldo could have made a decent point.
To a racist, young black male wearing hoodie = thief, f’n coon. If he tells his kids, “there are a lot of racists out there, and you can’t dress like a white teenager, you have to look twice as good to prevent the racists from assuming your color and casual dress = dangerous f’ing coon. It’s not fair, but that’s life in America where racism is alive and well”
But he’s at Fox News, so that clear line between a racist with a gun permit and his racist reaction to any hooded black person can’t be drawn. If he did that, of course, the problem isn’t the hood, but racism, which we know is dead according to the right wing.
taylormattd
@D. Mason:
He is LITERALLY blaming the victim.
And to answer my own previous question, yes, you are a moron.
gex
@J.D. Rhoades: This is where maybe the money guys in the GOP don’t want the situation where the gun laws of any given state need to be honored nationally. NYC is much stricter than Mississippi, but those Mississippi guns can travel north…
@Wordsmith: As an Asian, I find the new dress codes in the US confusing. Are hoodies on the approved list or not if you are half-Chinese and half-German?
Rafer Janders
This must make walking in New York hell for Geraldo, having to constantly cross the street every five seconds. And considering that there are usually black and/or (not “or”) youngsters on every single street in the city, this basically means that Geraldo can only walk in the middle of the street in traffic.
Which, you know, might not be all bad.
TK-421
@D. Mason:
I’m super glad you’ve realized the error of your ways and have admitted as much. Oh wait…
Culture of Truth
Even giving Rivera’s remarks the best possible gloss, it’s still a really dickish thing to say. He’s tacitly blaming not just Martin but his parents, and spins Zimmerman as having been “allowed” (interesting word choice) by virtue of the outfit to act in an “overzealous” way.
I know some racists and they watch Fox just so they get fed stuff like this.
pete
@D. Mason: Stop digging.
Ruckus
@scav:
That may not be as nearly as far fetched as wearing a hoodie. Or a confederate t-shirt.
/snark, just to be clear.
DFH no.6
@Bubblegum Tate:
That’s the talking point with the fascists now.
Some of the evil motherfuckers I work with have made that exact claim. They’ll all be on board with it soon.
Pointing out that Trayvon was an exceptionally slight teenager, and Zimmerman a grown man nearly twice his size (oh, and it was Zimmerman who initiated contact by following Trayvon, as proven by the 911 tape) means nothing to assholes who lie constantly, and claim to believe whatever lies their faith-based tribal ideology spews forth.
Fuck all fucking fascists, and kapos like Rivera.
pk
@D. Mason:
Really! A confederate flag tee shirt will get you shot in some neighborhoods? Because a heck of a lot of people wear these shirts. I’ve seen lots of pick-ups with confederate flags, going around neighborhoods (some “wrong” ones too). I’ve yet to hear of one white guy ever getting shot over a confederate shirt or flag. You’d think it would be quiet common considering the romance so many people have with all things confederate.
The big difference between being black and white is that if you’re in a bad neighborhood something bad is likely to happen to you (whether you are black, white or brown). If you are black or brown something bad is likely to happen to you even if you are in a so called “good neighborhood”. The only difference is skin color.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Culture of Truth: That’s true. But the cue was missed.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Comrade Dread: Once again, trying to take us back to the 1950s.
Uncle Cosmo
@JD Rhoades: And now I am seriously wondering if it was wise for me a couple months back to give the black hoodie I brought back from Norway to my nephew…
Seriously, though, GR isn’t saying much different from Eugene Robinson’s column in the Thursday WaPo:
(snip)
Or even more directly, Jonathan Capehart’s column from the March 4 WaPo:
TK-421
@D. Mason:
Except that you’re not merely acknowledging the existence of a category of clothing that incites, but you’re also approving of such a category. That’s the “rightfully so” part of your original comment.
Some people look at a fucked up world and say “rightfully so.” You’re one of those people. Congrats.
celticdragonchick
@D. Mason:
I agree. We can be outraged by what happened. At the same time, we also have to gauge just what it takes to not be the next victim. I recall a community organizer mentioning how she trains African American men to handle being approached by the police: Make no sudden moves, keep your hands away from your body and speak slowly and calmly as you would with a dangerous animal.
It is enraging and humiliating. At the same time, it is good advice for staying alive.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Uh-oh, I’m wearing two hoodies today (sweatshirt and jacket with hood). I guess I should have put my bulletproof vest on, too, since simply wearing one puts me at higher risk of being shot.
Oh, wait, I’m a middle-aged white woman, so there’s pretty much ZERO chance that I will be shot in my hoodie. The accessory that actually put Trayvon Martin at risk was his dark skin, not his hooded sweatshirt.
Petorado
@Killjoy:
White person trying on article of clothing – “Does this make me look fat?”
Black person trying on article of clothing – “Will this get me killed?”
gogol's wife
Just weighing in as a not-young white college professor wearing a hoodie right now.
Why is Geraldo Rivera on any television programs any more? Wasn’t his career thrown on the ash heap of history long ago?
Mattminus
@shortstop:
You’re joking, but Geraldo has a radio show in NYC that I listen to because I hate myself, and he addressed this comparison. He actually said something to the effect of “Well it’s different because when a woman wears a short skirt the only person that might have a rason to feel fear is the woman. When a kid wears a hoodie, everyone feels nervous.”
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
Break out the rubber mallets and Malkin storm troopers for the mother of all countertop inspections.
the dude ought to go ahead and give himself to the dem party, cause he is Rino toast.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So Rivera thinks the village of Sandford in the movie Hot Fuzz is the way it should be? Asshole
Ruckus
@SBJules:
You are being way too kind to Geraldo. Way, way too kind.
D. Mason
@Killjoy: Not just for people of color. Back in the 90’s there were places where whole sections of the color wheel were off limits to everyone due to the reaction the locals might have to said hue.
Up-thread I was accused of being obtuse but the pretension that in America we can just wear what the fuck we want with no expectation of consequence is as obtuse as anything I’ve seen on this blog.
It is entirely reasonable to point out that you can’t always wear what you want, the only issue I see up for debate here is whether the hoodie qualifies.
If I wear saggy pants to a tourist trap I become more likely to get pickpocketed, add some jewelry to increase that liklihood. Does that make it my fault that a someone decided to pick pockets that day? No, obviously not. Could I have protected myself from the possibility better than I did? It’s clear that I could have.
As rational people we are expected to deal with choices like this on an everyday basis. If someone abdicates common sense for fashion sense and puts themselves in danger then they have made a choice. A choice which they have a right to make and which doesn’t justify the actions of the aggressor, but a choice nonetheless. Now if you folks cant see the point I’m making, that’s ok with me. I’m just a troll in your echo chamber because I dare to have a differing opinion and that’s ok too. None of this will erase the fact that our clothing choices do have consequences and that is not an outrageous statement.
Killjoy
@gogol’s wife:
Fox News is the ash heap of history.
dead existentialist
@beltane: Wut? I thought it was just the opposite. I must be wired differently.
Valdivia
I have to laugh. Obviously Rivera never gets the Victoria’s Secret’s catalogue were every third page you have lightly clothed nubile females wearing hoodies. I guess they are just asking to be shot since most of them are latinas too.
Martin
Well, if some good-ol-boy was killed by a bunch of black kids for wearing a shirt that said ‘I hate niggers’ Geraldo would be at the front of the glibertarian line proclaiming the good-ol-boy’s first amendment rights, and the importance of freedom of expression in this country.
eric
@shortstop: why has there not been a Chicago BJ get together? there seems to be enough of us to run up a nice tab in one of the City’s “finer” establishments…
japa21
@c u n d gulag:
For me it’s good time if it is Leap Year, any other year, it is an impossible time.
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
Drape your child in wetsuits and dildos, that way everyone will think they’re Republicans
Ruckus
@Killjoy:
I hope that’s a work uniform or you are one handsome dude, I could never pull that off as stylish.
quannlace
I’m surprised they were even discussing the story at all. When all the morning news shows were covering the latest developments in the case; the few minutes I saw Fox & Friends they were cooing over a story about a fluffy white kittie surviving a fall from a window. And now on to the idiot weatherman!!
Martin
@D. Mason: Stop digging.
Killjoy
@D. Mason:
Yes, if there’s one place more dangerous than gang territory in the Los Angeles of the ’90s, it’s a gated community in suburban Central Florida. Why was Trayvon being so reckless?
D. Mason
@TK-421: HAHA ok you got me there. Read upthread and tell me if the reaction to my comments seems centered around the “rightfully so” part of my statement or around the part where I acknowledge the category of clothed which incite. Be honest now.
gbear
But that’s not what he said, is it? He said something that only an asshole would say.
Woodrowfan
so, if the hoodie has a confederate flag on it, do they two negate each other threa-wise, or is the threat level doubled?? (/sarcasm)
ruemara
@Lawnguylander: Martin Van Buren? ‘Cos I know you didn’t go to Andrew Jackson.
He’s just having trouble saying “Blacks and latinos really need to have clearly marked passes, so as to not frighten innocent armed whites. Maybe if they had a handler with them at all times, perhaps a leash”.
Culture of Truth
Republican State Representative Dennis Baxley, one of the authors of the Stand Your Ground law, said it did not protect people who pursued and confronted their victims, as occurred in Sanford, according to lawyers for the parents of the dead teenager.
Defending Stand Your Ground, Baxley said that while errors may occur, such as the death of Martin, it was important that the law err on the side of those who fear they are facing “a perceived” threat.
“That’s good public policy. I think we have a good statute and I would hate to lose anything in it that protects people from harm. It saves lives,” Baxley added.
Lawnguylander
The black people D. Mason imagines as uncontrollably violent when presented with the necessary stimulus also would almost all expect to be prosecuted for beating up white people clad in said stimulus. They are as capable of understanding consequences as any other random grouping despite what D. Mason thinks of them.
You need not be so afraid of black people, D. Mason.
Citizen_X
Rivera quickly added, “Not that I’m suggesting that people should ever leave their guns at home!” Doocy hastened to agree, “Oh no, of course not! It’s just a song!”
Citizen_X
Rivera quickly added, “Not that I’m suggesting that people should ever leave their guns at home!” Doocy hastened to agree, “Oh no, of course not! It’s just a song!”
grandpa john
I am white and 75 years old, can I still wear my hoodies outside if it is cold or rainy?
JM
@ D. Mason:
… please tell us about those neighborhoods in which you *can* safely wear your confederate flag t-shirt. Is it safe to wear a hoody there?
Gustopher
I think Geraldo was just trying to say that white folks in gated communities are f.cking crazy, and will shoot brown folks at the slightest provocation, real or imagined. Rather inartfully, though.
JPL
Will the NFL impose a ban on the sale of hoodies now that we know they are more dangerous than guns?
Barry
@beltane: “Ladies and gentlemen, if your child isn’t wearing a sweater vest and bow-tie he is just begging to be murdered in cold blood.”
And if he is, then he must belong to NoI,…………
Satanicpanic
@MattR:
THIS. You know, even if Trayvon were trying to look like a gangsta, so what? There’s a part of the adult brain that can’t process the fact that kids are in on the joke. When I was a kid, liking Ozzy Osbourne didn’t mean you were going to eat live pigeons. We all knew that NWA weren’t real gangsters. If FOX would calm the hell down this sort of thing wouldn’t happen so much.
pete
Rivera is a well-known blowhard who shoots his mouth off; let the idiot go. Same goes for his apologist.
hitchhiker
I predict a whole new satire website will pop up momentarily with racist-approved fashion choices for dark-skinned people.
eric
@grandpa john: no….apparently, hoodies are the new “black.”
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
sweater-vests save AND prevent lives.
Martin
@grandpa john:
Of course, but expect to be executed for doing so. Your freedom is important to us.
Comrade Dread
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): I have no idea what you’re talking about. Are you referring to Geraldo’s comment’s or my criticism of them?
LGRooney
@D. Mason: Chew on this and get back to us: if a redneck took a wrong turn into South Central, got out and asked for directions, got the shit kicked out of him – not even killed – because he just happened to be wearing the redneck flag on his shirt, would we even come close to having a discussion of whether or not the attackers should be arrested?
JPL
According to TPM geraldo tweeted
I still think the NFL should ban the sale of hoodies.
D. Mason
@Lawnguylander: I dunno, It happened to some asshole I went to school with and the presiding sentiment was that he should have known better. No prosecutions either.
Killjoy
@Ruckus:
Hey, I’m not opposed to enhancing my wardrobe, but apparently being fashion forward can be hazardous to my health.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Uncle Cosmo: Except they are saying it for the opposite reasons. Robinson is talking about the “rules” blacks have come up with to try to keep them from being suspicious. Rivera is talking about how people who see the hoodie get all excited and do irrational things, like killing someone. Robinson is talking about protecting blacks, and Rivera is talking about letting perpetrators off the hook.
Geeno
I’m old enough to remember Geraldo in the early 70’s when he could actually be construed as a journalist. Man, I’m old.
petesmom
Rivera is missing the point – WHATEVER YOUNG AA MEN WEAR WILL INDUCE FEAR IN THESE @SSHOLES!
OK, sorry to scream, but this is getting ridiculous. So, say pink tutus and tights became the rage among AA youth. Then a Zimmerman would cringe and shoot whenever he saw a kid in a tutu and tights! In other words, it’s not the outfit, it’s the kid inside (and specifically, the skin color of the kid inside) that is the trigger.
D. Mason
@LGRooney: I’m not having a conversation about whether Zimmerman should be arrested. I think he should be arrested and if found guilty, which seems like an extreme likelihood, put to death. I’m only having a conversation about whether Geraldos statement was outrageous, which to me it wasn’t. It was silly, hoodies don’t incite rational people in my opinion, but the idea is in no way outrageous. It’s a concept we deal with on a daily basis and to get outraged at it’s mention is just as silly.
jacy
Let’s see: my two little glaringly white kids go to Catholic school and part of the assigned uniform is a dark navy hoodie. (that’s the only approved outerwear at the school). My daughter wears either her Aeropostle hoodie or one with her her college emblem. My pasty husband wears a grey hoodie with my kids’ soccer team logo on the front to walk the dogs at night. My son wears a yellow hoodie with the logo of the football team he coaches. I have two hoodies, one with my hockey team logo on it, and a plain maroon one. You know why we wear hoodies? Because they have pockets big enough for a wallet and keys, they’re lightweight enough that it’s about all you need in the South during the winter/spring, and you can pull up the hood if it starts to rain or gets windy.
I guess we’re just lucky we were born white, and are free to go outside without a bullet proof vest and a riot helmet.
Culture of Truth
This is insulting.
This is disgusting
This is gibberish.
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@Culture of Truth: Actually it does. The truth of the matter is that he and the other tards who introduced the NRA-penned World’s Worst Legislation didn’t read it.
Some Guy
@grape_crush: Precisely.
Who is the threat to society in this scenario? Dark-skinned kid with a hoodie or white, paranoid guy with a gun? Hmmm. So hard to sort it out.
shortstop
@eric: I assume that your definition of “finer” is tied less to Zagat or Michelin standards than to the decreasing likelihood of a place asking us to leave due to excessive boisterousness?
Barry
@D. Mason: “I dunno, his statement seemed pretty clear that he wasn’t justifying the reaction he suggests people have to this particular garment. ”
Then what was he trying to say?
“I mean as a white guy, if I wear a confederate flag t-shirt in the wrong neighborhood, I’m gonna carry home an ass beating, rightfully so.”
And if somebody shot you, they’d better hope that the police don’t catch them. If they were caught, the only question is twenty years or life.
mk3872
Sounds like the Hoodie industry could use a Super PAC or at least more lobbyists in DC
JWL
Perhaps Rivera has invested heavily in urban sombrero’s, and is trying to influence the market. The SEC should investigate.
MattR
@hitchhiker:
There’d only be one item – an orange prison jumpsuit.
Svensker
@Liberty60:
Yeah, that’s pretty much it.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Comrade Dread: Sorry, I was talking about Rivera wanting to go back to a time when whites and blacks kept apart from each other because they just weren’t supposed to be near each other. At some point he would be demanding that blacks, being in the minority, should be the ones crossing the street.
trex
@Martin
True, and devastatingly so. You just gutted the premise underlying Geraldo’s argument like a fish. It’s all about the double standard of race. Whites can show up en masse at presidential events with loaded weapons and signs advocating insurrection and it’s their absolute right. But one unarmed Black Panther standing near the door of a polling place in Virginia and its evidence that blacks have started a…
race war.
pete
@petesmom: Exactly. (And I say that even though you are not MY mom!)
Bruce S
What about that moustache? What do people imagine when they see that moustache-of-evil? If Geraldo ever gets shot, the moustache will be as much to blame as the shooter.
Geraldo – who started out as a lawyer for the Young Lords and did some excellent investigative reporting locally in NYC – is one of the great cautionary tales re the ability of someone of apparently decent character with a promising career and a modicum of talent to end up totally in the toilet. Again, I blame it on the moustache.
JPL
@mk3872: The Save the hoodie for Americans PAC
Lawnguylander
My previous comment was supposed to be @ J.D. Rhodes comment @ 103, BTW.
@ruemara
Van Buren would’ve been my high school if I’d gone to public school but I went to Saint Francis Prep instead. Funny thing is, some time back you made a comment here that led me to ask you if you’d gone to Van Buren. It was in a dormant thread so I guess you didn’t see it.
Thoughtcrime
Jerry’s viewers love their pointy white hoodies:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-unmasked-the-images-that-reveal-the-ku-klux-klan-is-alive-and-kicking-in-2009-1625732.html?action=gallery&ino=10
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/klu-klux-klan-white-supremacist-running-sheriff-idaho-article-1.1047498
chopper
wasn’t zimmerman wearing a hoodie too? clearly, hoodies kill. this hoodie-on-hoodie crime has to stop.
jesus, what is it with morons trying to avoid dealing with the existence of racism in this country? they’re blaming sweatshirts??
Tractarian
I’m sure this has been pointed out above somewhere, but here’s the sick punchline to Geraldo Rivera’s joke of a life:
It was raining.
Comrade Dread
@Bruce S: Well, if I imagine him in a poncho and wearing a sombrero, he would sort of look like a stereotypical 50’s western bandito with that ‘stache, which means he’s probably armed and threatening, so yeah, Geraldo would really have no one to blame but himself.
What? Oh… you mean applying racist stereotypes to someone in order to justify racist paranoia isn’t okay?
Then shut up, Geraldo.
Satanicpanic
@D. Mason: Dude, you’re missing the point. Geraldo is saying this to make racist people feel better about not caring that this kid got shot. He’s not offering it at helpful advice to teens- teens are not watching this show.
shortstop
@trex: Video is very funny in a it-hurts-to-laugh kind of way.
eric
@shortstop: you are correct, perhaps even a micro brewery or whatever the kids are doing these days. (doing the zagat thing tonight at MK…yum)
Bruce S
Comrade Dread – yes. We don’t need no steeenkin’ badges.
Southern Beale
Also, too, Bristol Palin is demanding attention.
I’m so sick of these people.
Mark S.
Michelle Malkin asks
Fucking everything, you stupid bitch. Even Capt Ed realizes that.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
So, just to be clear, you honestly believe that I, a 42-year-old white woman, am at equal risk of being shot by someone like Zimmerman if I wear a hoodie as a black or Latino teenage boy would be.
If not — if you’re honest enough to admit that, no, not even an idiot like Zimmerman would try to claim that a 42-year-old white woman scared him into a fatal shooting because she was wearing a hoodie — then you have to admit that the problem wasn’t the hoodie, but Trayvon Martin’s race.
Bubblegum Tate
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):
Wow, good for Hanna. He’s about to be in a world of shit now, and he must have known that would be the result when he spoke. I wonder what prompted that turn of honesty.
D. Mason
@Satanicpanic: I can’t live my life based on speculation about what might or might not be in Geraldo Riveras head. I’m a BJ reader and ABL put op an outrage post about something Geraldo said. I disagree that it’s outrageous. Sorry for causing a pile on with my trollish disagreement. I should already know I have to moderate my expression of the First Amendment here because of OTHER PEOPLES REACTIONS.
John M. Burt
@ABL 2.0: Friend ABL stares my mind in this matter.
jibeaux
I think my favorite part has to be him quoting Johnny Cash saying
not to talk about GUNS, not to suggest that maybe Zimmerman didn’t need to Travis Bickle the gated community armed to the hilt, but to instead make “gun” an analogy for “hoodie.”
TooManyJens
Geraldo Rivera doubles down, with a bonus insult to minority parents:
Apparently he thinks that unless he blames Trayvon Martin for wearing a hoodie, minority parents just won’t understand the risks their kids face. Unbelievably insulting.
wrb
I do favor blowing away anyone wearing a gun.
Guns make me feel insecure, and no one has the right to make me feel insecure.
Seriously, a lot of this world is still tribal and wearing the identifying garb of one tribe- whether Brooks Brothers or Crips- onto the turf of another will put you at risk where tribalism runs strong.
But a middle class neighborhood must be expected to rise above such tribalism.
And a hoodie just ain’t definitive as a identifier.
Comrade Dread
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Actually, I’m pretty sure a lot of people would be happy with a “Kill the troublemakers and hide the bodies” approach to town governance, as long as they were on the committee who got to define who the troublemakers were.
Ruckus
@Killjoy:
If you are the “wrong” color breathing can be hazardous to your health. But I’m sure you know that.
A general rhetorical question, not aimed at anyone.
What does it feel like to be a black male and feel like every day of your life is like a war zone? Bullets may fly at you at any time. In a war zone it’s not the clothes you wear or even the gun carry, it is you just existing. You have no control over the situation, nothing you do can change it. You don’t even have many places to hide, if you wanted to. You never know when someone will shoot, you never know who will shoot, you never know from what direction they will shoot. What you do know is that it is entirely possible that any day you can be shot. And yet you have to go about your daily life as if nothing is wrong.
cckids
Zimmerman has a history of calling in “suspicious” people to the local police. Mysteriously, they were mostly black people. Public records don’t note if they were all wearing hoodies.
eta: Rivera is such a fool.
pete
@D. Mason: Stop digging, and go read the first amendment.
Comrade Dread
@jibeaux: Given what happened, I think better advice for the kids of Florida would be to pack heat and learn the art of the quick draw, so you can be the last man standing.
Gretchen
I’m a 59-year-old white lady who wears a hoodie when I walk or garden. I had no idea that I’m letting everyone know I’m dangerous!
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: I never said the problem was the hoodie, I only ever said that Geraldos statement is not outrageous. The thing that makes it non-outrageous is the existence of clothing which does incite. If clothing which does incite exists then it is not outrageous to suggest that such and such article of clothing might fall into that category. There are plenty of things surrounding this debacle in Florida to be outraged over, but this post is a big pile of nothing.
ABL has been writing some good posts since she came back from her hiatus but this one reminds me of the old days.
Barry
@ABL 2.0: Mason: ” if I wear a confederate flag t-shirt in the wrong neighborhood, I’m gonna carry home an ass beating, rightfully so.”
ABL: “blank stare”
Good point. And I’ll be that an I [hear] Osama Bin Laden t-shirt could be risky to wear in large North American superpowers.
Brachiator
@Liberty60:
Pretty much. All the discussion from Geraldo about clothing is a tiresome distraction.
@D. Mason:
No, the point is that Geraldo made up some lame hypothetical about hoodies and you want to extend it. There is nothing in the information we have about this tragedy that suggests that Zimmerman thought or believed that the hoodie was related to anything.
And you also seem to be saying that the hoodie might incite someone to assault the wearer, or to commit murder. Is this what you intended?
@shortstop: And yeah, since some keep making an issue of the hoodie, the observation that Martin had the hoodie down emphasizes the stupidity of this line of thought.
Bondo
LOL. Riviera is a dumbass. And Hey, he better shave off that stupid rat on his face before someone shoots him.
jibeaux
@Comrade Dread: Well, not to really get into the substance of guns and their associated laws, it just struck me as ironic to quote “leave your gun at home” to mean “leave your hoodie at home” when the other guy has an actual literal gun.
Gretchen
@D. Mason:
Let’s explain this one more time. The First Amendment says you can say whatever you want. It emphatically does not say that you can say whatever you want without being criticized. The First Amendment guarantees your right to say whatever dumbass thing you want to say, and it also guarantees the right of everyone else to point out what a dumbass thing that was to say. Your freedom is unimpaired.
jibeaux
Attn all gentlemen with giant ridiculous handlebar mustaches: lose them, or be forewarned that you could be mistaken for an absurd and insensitive fake journalist and treated accordingly. People stereotype. Jus’ sayin’.
shortstop
Shorter DMason: I’ve fallen and I’m not even trying to get up!
Chris
@D. Mason:
Uhhhh… no. Not “rightfully so.” “Understandably so,” perhaps. But if someone beats the shit out of you with no better reason than “he was wearing something offensive,” you’d be within your rights to sue the shit out of him. You’d still be an asshole, because, you know, Confederate flag, and a double asshole for parading it in front of the people that flag wanted to see enslaved. But legally speaking, you’d be in the right. As you should be. Free speech, etc.
I’d go into the utter stupidity of comparing something as nondescript as a hoodie with something as inflammatory as the Confederate flag, but others have already done so.
TooManyJens
@D. Mason:
Your concern is noted.
Saying that a hoodie is in any way “responsible” for Trayvon Martin’s death is outrageous. The fact that a confederate flag T-shirt could incite someone to rage doesn’t change that and is totally irrelevant here. Keep your eye on the ball. A kid is dead because his perfectly normal activities were considered “suspicious” because he’s black.
Citizen Alan
@penpen:
And thank you so much for inviting me to stick my face into a cesspit of bile and feces. What disgusting “people”!
D. Mason
@Gretchen: I guess you failed to catch the joking reference to my original post in that last sentence. Sorry ’bout your lack of humor.
Mike in NC
Geraldo should’ve stayed in Iraq, looking for those hidden WMDs for FOX News. He might have even found one by now!
LGRooney
@shortstop: I disagree: I’ve fallen and I’m too stupid to realize I’m down.
kay
Why do people in media always do this? There’s always this immediate rush to minimize all grief and shock and real emotion and reduce that to a series of “common sense” instructions that were or were not followed.
Why not just stay out of it if they have nothing at all to add?
We don’t need their constant careful tutoring on appropriate reactions to everything in the world.
wrb
@jibeaux:
I blow those hot-tempered rascals away on sight, knowin’ how they are always on the verge of letting loose a hail of lead.
I seen what they are like on the tv.
Satanicpanic
@D. Mason: It’s not what’s in Geraldo’s head- it’s what FOX is about. FOX has a long history of promoting racial stereotypes and driving fears of marauding black teens. If Jesse Jackson had said this at an NAACP rally I don’t think anyone would care, because the intent is different. FOX needs someone, preferably a minority, to say something to let their viewers off the hook. Geraldo just happened to be that guy, but if it weren’t him it would have been someone else.
Gretchen
@D. Mason:
Sorry ’bout your lack of a clue.
Chris
@pk:
That’s… possibly the best summary I’ve ever read for it. Thanks. :(
Midnight Marauder
@D. Mason:
No, but seriously. You don’t think this statement is outrageous?
You really agree that the choice to wear a hooded sweatshirt in the rain is just as responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman deciding to get out of his car, chase Martin down, and pull the trigger of the gun?
You are a crazy person.
MikeTheZ
Really, the only appropriate response here is to say “What in the actual fuck?” and then go buy a bag of skittles and send it in as part of that protest care of Geraldo.
shortstop
@LGRooney: Yes, much better!
@kay: Usually it’s a way to convince ourselves that the terrible thing that has befallen someone else can’t happen to us. If we don’t wear these clothes, don’t walk alone at midnight, stay out of this neighborhood, we won’t get raped, mugged, beaten up. Even many of us who are progressive do it, at least briefly and internally — with luck, our better and rational natures immediately take over. It’s a way of trying to feel safer and more in control of what other people can do to us.
This time, though, it’s just a way to make white people feel better about the fact that walking while black can be a death sentence. And blaming not only the victim but his parents’s supposed irresponsibility is beyond sick; it’s twisting the knife.
Joel
Anyone blaming the victim here is a fucking moron. Worse than that, even.
There’s really not much more to say. Glad you can live with yourself.
Joel
Anyone blaming the victim here is a fucking moron. Worse than that, even.
There’s really not much more to say. Glad you can live with yourself.
pragmatism
@D. Mason: if someone doesn’t get your joke, it could be because they don’t have a sense of humor. Or it could be that your joke isn’t funny or clear.
may i suggest you use a shovel instead of your bare hands if you intend to keep digging this hole?
tofudog
I remember after Columbine many schools prohibited the wearing of trenchcoats. Never mind that lots of kids at that school wore trenchcoats who did not shoot up the school, never mind that the symbolism of the trenchcoat perhaps meant different things to different kids regionally.
Somehow people want to reduce things to items of clothing to make it easier not to think.
JPL
After consulting the magic eight ball, Romney finally released a statement call the Trayvon Martin killing a tragedy.
beltane
@JPL: Governor Etch-a-Sketch is certainly a profile in courage the likes of which have never been seen before.
D. Mason
@Midnight Marauder: Now you’re conflating failure to be appropriately outraged with agreement. I’m sure if ABL were on my side she would tell you which # that is on the list of bad faith arguments.
shortstop
@JPL: I know even without googling it that he failed to assign responsibility for this “tragedy.” It was just a bad thing that happened, right?
Sirius Lunacy
“I think unless it’s raining out, or you’re at a track meet, leave the hoodie home.”
Um, Geraldo, the first couple articles I read on this incident said that it was raining that night. Perhaps as a “journalist” it wouldn’t hurt you to do a little research.
izzy
The argument fails on its own terms. I don’t know exactly what Trayvon was wearing that night but if you look at the pictures they’ve shown of him the kid is wearing Hollister, which is an Abercrombie & Fitch brand. It doesn’t get more Joe American than that. Go to any suburban high school or college in the US in fall or early spring and half the kids are wearing Abercrombie hoodies. Trayvon was wearing his while black.
Svensker
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick:
.
This made me laugh.
D. Mason
@pragmatism: Not funny I can buy, not clear – no way.
scav
D Mason is acting all surprised and upset after swaggering into this thread wearing his Confederate hoodie opinion and, shock! getting yelled at. I thought he was 100% ok with getting rightfully beat up under those circs.
Martin
And just to boil Geraldo’s argument down to its pure essence:
“If you look like Trayvon, you should expect to get shot.”
That is precisely what he’s saying. But he wants you to focus on his clothing, not on his skin color. But it really doesn’t matter – the argument is the same: Don’t look like this kid. Don’t be caught being black.
wasabi gasp
After a few washes, the hood shrinks too much. Then it’s nothing but trouble.
Frankensteinbeck
D. Mason:
Here is the problem with your logic. You are presenting an extreme case that itself is not conclusive and trying to compare it to a normal case on the basis that it is only a matter of degree. This logic does not work, because everything is a matter of degree and sufficiently large degrees of difference must be treated as separate categories. Using your logic with a more gut obvious example, since most women would have sex in exchange for not being shot in the head, it’s not offensive to say all women are whores. Both in the logical fallacy and how offensive it is to say, that’s a close example. I hope it shows you your error.
pragmatism
@D. Mason: so you agree that it could be something other than a person not having a sense of humor. that is good. you’re not completely a dumbass. just an ass.
The Other Chuck
@LanceThruster:
Not to mention that Jaleel White is all grown up, is a big muscular dude, and tends to play thug roles. Far as Gerald is concerned, he’s a bullet magnet.
kay
@shortstop:
I think so, too. If he was just careful enough, he could WALK unmolested by lunatics. But that’s a trap. It puts HIM in a box, to allow for complete freedom for the lunatic. It’s backwards. God forbid we should put any limits on the lunatic with a gun. Instead, we’ll regulate everyone else, so they don’t agitate or upset the armed person who is strolling around free and easy.
What was Zimmerman wearing? A gun? That makes me anxious. I might do anything, seeing that.
Cliff in NH
He should of just been wearing a RNC hoodie, right?
http://www.gopstore.com/cgi-bin/rnc/OW104.html
dogwood
@shortstop:
And I wonder if people will buy it. Yesterday I was at the beauty shop getting my hair cut. It’s a conservative community and the shop reflects that both among the staff and the clientele. The Martin murder was the only topic discussed and there wasn’t a soul in the shop who thought Zimmerman was anything other than a racist vigilante.
DK
@D. Mason:
“My only point is that it is an obvious fact that we have to, as a society, avoid wearing certain garments due to the effect they have on other people. ”
Except unarmed black people are attacked no matter what they wear just like women are raped no matter what they wear. Clothing does not provoke violence – racism and sexism do.
wrb
It’s funny that Geraldo’s original brand was all about looking like one of those dangerous ethnic hippie.
I was in range of NYC tv when he debuted on local Eyewitness News as the young longhair hispanic reporter who knew the streets.
No one who looked or dressed like him had ever been a reporter on tv news before, in that age of Cronkite. He wore the that day’s equivalent of the hoodie.
Chris
@Satanicpanic:
This.
I remember reading “The Plot Against America” a long time ago and there’s a scene where the Jewish family’s listening to a pro-Lindbergh rabbi endorse the America First position on the radio. Everyone’s outraged and astonished that the guy would do a thing like that, insulted that he thinks any Jews are going to pay attention to him… except the guy in the corner who just goes “he’s not talking to us. He’s koshering Lindbergh for the goyim.”
The scene flashes in my head again virtually every time I see a gay, female or minority conservative talking politics.
Lawnguylander
@ D. Mason:
So, someone you know was beaten up for wearing a confederate flag in the wrong neighborhood* and this leads you to conclude that black people are a bunch of violent thugs and so you’re afraid of them now? I “dunno,” this tells me nothing about black people but everything about you.
*I dunno about the rest of you, but I’m sure D. Mason made this story up.
Also, another big difference between being black and white is that black people are more likely to be victims of crimes in the “bad neighborhoods” than white people are in those same neighborhoods. It’s a lot easier to get away with black on black crime than black on white crime. Cops take the latter more seriously.
Interrobang
Who wears hoodies for rain? I guess American rain must be different than Canadian rain or something, or Canadian hoodies are different than American hoodies, because in my experience, hoodies ain’t waterproof, and anybody who wears one as a raincoat is a few base pairs shy of a coding sequence, if you get my drift.
That said Geraldo needs to stop wearing his colon as a rainhat, because he’s currently so full of shit, it’s a wonder he hasn’t exploded yet. (Halevay…)
shortstop
@Chris: Yes, exactly. A recent example is Herman Cain. He knew he wasn’t going to get a dozen black votes. His spiel was strictly for white people resentful of their supposed victimization at the hands of too-powerful blacks.
Frankensteinbeck
Criminy, just making that example to show how disgusting an argument is made me feel dirty. I apologize, ladies.
Michael Demmons
Geraldo Rivera just Tweeted the following: “My own son just wrote to say he’s ashamed of my position re hoodies-still I feel parents must do whatever they can to keep their kids safe”
He should be ashamed.
EDIT: I see that was noted a lot earlier.
wrb
In some regions rain is more often mist than downpour and a hoodie works fine.
Rafer Janders
@Mattminus:
It’s always fear with these guys, isn’t it? They must live in a state of constant quaking terror.
penpen
Steve M. has the cliff’s notes for the D. Masons out there:
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2012/03/geraldo-you-lost-me-at-responsible.html
Chris
@shortstop:
Yeah, that’s what his “blame yourselves” spiel was about. White Conservatives go absolutely ecstatic when they see a minority granting them absolution like that. So of course there’s an industry in it.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@D. Mason: Um, last I knew, not all of us who disagree are members of any government, and those of us who may be, are undoubtedly expressing their private disagreement. Thus in no fashion is there any governmental restriction of your expressions here.
It is against governmental interference that the First Amendment protects your speech, not against the robust expression of disagreement with its contents. Such robust disagreement may even include a refusal to patronize your business, or sponsor your entertainment product, or even to employ you (in the case of private employers) but it will not in any fashion violate the First Amendment, which does not address private actions. Regardless of right wing insistence to the contrary.
scav
@wrb: And just maybe perhaps (?) the Canadian Teen years are all about wearing the most efficacious rain/seasonal gear but it’s never quite managed to catch on here.
Briannnn
My wingnut cousin posted on someone’s Facebook status about this situation that he should’ve posted the status in Spanish because “Travyon’s shooter didn’t speak English.” I can’t with these people.
twiffer
@D. Mason: come the fuck on. my mom and grandma wear hoodies. should they worry about getting shot? should my 4yr old son worry that some nut will shoot him if he puts his hood up on the playground? this is not some article of clothing that is unique to any segment of the population; hoodies are damn near as ubiquitous as jeans and t-shirts. i can think of no reason why someone wearing a hood up in the rain would be suspicious. probably cause i’d be doing the same thing.
claiming it is sensible to moderate one’s behavior based on the potential reactions of assholes and lunatics is called “blaming the victim”. it is wrong. it does not matter if there are people who have “instinctive” reactions (aka racism, etc.), because adults do not act on every fucking irrational thought they have.
wrb
@scav:
Here I envied Canadians for spending their teen years bundled with other naked teens under bear rugs, in their igloos.
Instead they are comparing the technical specifications of the latest waterproof yet breathable fabrics.
We live in a fallen world.
karen marie
@D. Mason: What neighborhood would that be? I really want to know where you think you could get an ass beating for wearing a confederate tee-shirt.
D. Mason
@pragmatism: Maybe I am an ass, I’m ok with that too btw. I guess my problem here is that Zimmerman is a psychopath who seems determined to have a confrontation with someone who was “up to no good” before he left his house. He went out looking for trouble and made some. All I see here is a “journalist” who has always been known for silly shit, groping around for an explanation and coming up with something silly. Geraldo has never found the correct answer when he went on one of his little searches and I don’t know why it’s outrageous this time. The guy has been absurd my whole life and this is just another farcical example. I disagree with it being outrageous.
Lawnguylander
@interrobang:
So, when Canadians are wearing hoodies and it starts to rain, unlike Trayvon Martinn, they don’t pul the hood up? I think I believe you.
japa21
@D. Mason: First of all, clothing does not incite. Clothing is passive. A person may wear clothing in order to incite, i.e. wearing a t-shirt with a Confederate flag on it in certain areas.
Secondly, you are basically admitting that it was not the hoodie but the fact that the victim was black that was the problem. A white person wearing the hoodie would not have been a problem. Therefore, you are saying that blacks are more limited in their clothing selections than whites.
That is, in fact, enforcing a racial stereotype, whether you know it or not. And GR is doign the same. GR wants so desperately to be non-hispanic he even sells out fellow “latins” by doing the same racial stereotyping.
Just saying that is the way it is so we have to live with it just doesn’t cut it. GR doesn’t condemn the stereotyping. In fact he not only condones it but also encourages it. Just like the person who blames a girl’s apparel when she is raped is encouraging the stereotype that girls in short skirts are looking for sex or that men have no control over their urges when confronted with girls in short skirts.
GR, and you, in your t-shirt example are, if not excusing the response to the apparel are at least justifying it. And there is no justification.
Ben Cisco
The Twitterz have the answer to this asshole:
4tehlulz
Needs more racism.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
So, just to be clear, your position is that because some articles of clothing exist that may incite people to violence (like Confederate flag t-shirts), that means that any article of clothing can be claimed to incite people to violence and we’re not allowed to say, “Uh, no, Geraldo, everyone from toddlers to senior citizens wears hoodies nowadays, so it’s silly to claim that hoodies signal criminality.”
Again, the only reason that Zimmerman thought that the hoodie signaled danger was because a black teenager was wearing it. Unless you can show us that Zimmerman was stopping every hoodie wearer from ages 6 to 96 regardless of race, it’s ridiculous to claim that it was the hoodie that incited Zimmerman to violence so therefore black and Latino teenagers shouldn’t wear hoodies.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Briannnn: Did your cousin miss even the transcripts of the 911 calls?
D. Mason
@Lawnguylander:
So from my statement of disagreement about this being outrageous you read the above? Really? I try to avoid grouping people in such general terms, I’m sure I don’t always succeed.
And what should the misrepresentation made about me above tell me about you ?
jl
Too many comments to read them all, but looks more and more Martin lynching (yes, I heard the clip of the Zman saying ‘F***ing c**n’) is right in the middle of an intersection of racism and a terrible awful horrible ‘stand your ground’ self defense law.
FL should use it in an ad campaign: “Florida, where you can shoot a man, and walk away!”
Florida man lives to tell of ‘shoot first’ horror
” MIAMI (Reuters) – On June 5, 2006, not long after Florida enacted the first “Stand Your Ground” law in the United States, unarmed Jason Rosenbloom was shot in the stomach and chest by his next-door neighbor after a shouting match over trash.
Exactly what happened that day in Clearwater, Florida, is still open to dispute. Kenneth Allen, a retired police officer, said he shot Rosenbloom because he was trying to storm into his house.
Rosenbloom told Reuters in a telephone interview this week he never tried to enter the house and was in Allen’s yard, about 10 feet (3 meters) from his front door, when he was shot moments after he put his hands up. ”
…
‘ Allen was not arrested in the shooting of Rosenbloom. Sergeant Tom Nestor of the Pinella’s County Sheriff’s Office said Allen was found to have acted in self-defense when he pumped two rounds into Rosenbloom with his 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
“He meant for me to be dead and he never called 911,” said Rosenbloom, 36, adding that Allen, now 65, bent over him and using an expletive, warned him not to tangle “with an ex-cop” as he lay bleeding on the ground.
“The police closed it on his words alone,” said Rosenbloom, explaining how the case that began with a complaint about him leaving eight trash bags on the curb instead of the regulation six, was closed after what he described as only a summary investigation. ‘
…
‘ Florida does not keep comprehensive records to gauge the impact of Stand Your Ground. But the St. Petersburg Times found that in the first five years after the law was enacted, “justifiable homicides” in Florida more than tripled, to more than 100 in 2010 from just over 30. The Stand Your Ground law was invoked in at least 93 cases over that time period, involving 65 deaths.
Despite assertions from supporters of the law that it has worked as a deterrent of violent crime, Dennis Henigan, a lawyer and veteran vice president of the Brady Campaign, said the state was still saddled with a “tragic record” on violent crime.
“It’s quite remarkable how consistently awful Florida’s record has been,” Henigan said. “It takes some work to finish in the top five in violent crime among all the states every single year for the last 30 years.” ‘
http://news.yahoo.com/florida-man-lives-tell-shoot-first-horror-051159162.html
Edit: And I have no comment on Rivera’s idiotic rantings.
wrb
@D. Mason:
Even though you are correct that there is clothing that incites, Geraldo’s statement is outragous because what he said is this:
That “as much” turned what could have been some inoffensive wanking about the unfortunate reality that clothing can incite in or tribal world into an utterly outrageous statement.
shortstop
@D. Mason: If those goalposts start to get too heavy, you could just set them down, gracefully admit you were wrong and end this.
Well, you could if you were a healthy and mature individual.
khead
280 and still goin’……
Comrade Mary
@Interrobang: I wear hoodies for most rain here in Toronto, because it shelters me well enough. If I know I’m going out in heavy rain, I try for an umbrella, or if on my bike a helmet (which has vents so I get wet anyway, but more slowly than I would without it.)
I guess Rivera is addressing the all-important question of ‘what Trayvon would choose to do differently.” What a dick.
wrb
Considering that the retiring generation grew up on the Western- Bonanza, the Rifleman, Serio Leone/ Clint Eastwood- it could be a great success.
Every boy imgined himself pacing main street, hand on his six shooter, every fiber in to wheel and draw.
“Why not go out with a bang?”
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne:
Close, but not quite. My position is that because some articles of clothing exist that may incite people to violence, that means it is not outrageous for some silly reporter to suggest a certain garmet qualifies. It’s just another day in the life of Geraldo Rivera and nothing to get all worked up about. That is the sum total of my point. That’s all I’ve ever tried to say in this thread. I recognize that I upset some people in the way I chose to deliver it, but more fauxrage related to that or putting words in my mouth isn’t going to alter the point which I have tried to be clear about.
Phil Perspective
@Keith: And then later .. I guess .. Gweraldo Tweeted that his son called .. and said that he was ashamed of his dad for being such a dickhead
jl
Florida:
Where a hoody and being maybe black while an armed racist chases you due to general suspicions in said racist’s head and shoots you twice: self defense! Racist walks!
Where you get in an argument with your ex cop neighbor over trash, and step into his front yard and he shoots you after you raise you hands in fear of his gun: self defense! Ahole ex cop walks!
I’m staying out of Florida until they get this garbage fixed. Too bad, I would like to go back to Biscayne National Park and do some more snorkling. But will have to put that on hold. Might swim to close to a crazy person with a spear gun. too bad, but I am just as close to Hawaii, which is civilized.
dogwood
What does Canadian rain gear have to do with any of this?
D. Mason
@japa21:
While it’s true that the garment itself is always passive, the intent of the manufacturer must also be considered part of the incitement formula. Was the garment created to be used as a tool of incitement ( a shirt emblazoned with a racial slur for example )? If so how can you say that clothing does not incite when it was created for that purpose?
edit: grammar fix
JPL
@shortstop: You win!
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Apparently, what you consider outrageous is that anyone would disagree when a silly reporter says something. I guess we were all supposed to nod our heads and say, “Gee, Geraldo, that’s a good point,” instead of pointing out that it’s an idiotic thing to say because every goddamned person in America wears hoodies now.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne:
Apparently, what you consider outrageous is that anyone would disagree when a silly blogger says something. I guess I was supposed to nod my head and say, “Gee, ABL, that’s a good point,” instead of pointing out that it’s an idiotic thing to say because every goddamned thing out of Geraldos mouth is stupid…
Just sayin.
karen marie
@Geeno: You might want to see your doctor and ask to be tested for Alzheimers.
Liberty60
@wrb:
Every wingnut fancies himself to be Clint Eastwood, but are usually more like the Schofield Kid. Except with Cheetos stained fingers.
Hell of a thing, killin’ a man.
jl
@Mnemosyne: Mason’s comments may be snark, they are too stupid to be taken seriously.
And, yes I would say some suspicious person walking down the street wearing Canadian rain gear is a candidate for a self defense shooting. That Canadian rain gear could easily be mistaken for Yankee clothes, which would definitely be a signal of aggressive life threatening provocation to people who need to defend themselves. Cap that dude asap, if you ask me.
I will look forward to the new Florida travel bureau ads: “Bumdada bumdada bumdada DA DA: Come to Florida, where you can shoot a man! (If we think you are the ‘right’ kind of person)”
Lawnguylander
@D. Mason:
In your first comment you said that wearing a Confederate flag in the wrong neighborhood would cause black people to beat you up. You have nothing but a belatedly added piece of fictitious anecdata to back up your view of black people. I realize that stupidity and racism are not unrelated, but I think you are still able to understand that I’ve been challenging you on your view of black people as a group who are bound to resort to provocations with violence. It’s a pity you’re pretending not to understand where I got the idea that you’re a racist. Or that you’re just afraid to try to argue with me straight on and have to feign extra ignorance. I think I’m going to conclude that you’re a stupid, bigoted coward, homie. It’s been fun kicking your ass.
ET
Nutty neighbor guy would have reacted the exact same way if he had been walking down the street without that hoodie. They guy thought the black person walking down the street wasn’t one of them therefore he was suspect. If he was suspect it was his right to chase the guy because he was obviously up to no good. Add to that mindset the fact that he had a gun and obviously the proclivity to use it and wham. The hoodie was was just something Zimmerman uses to justify his fear and his actions.
JPL
@jl: I like the MSNBC article “gunshine state”
Chyron HR
@D. Mason:
Oh, I get it. You’re not in favor of gunning down children specifically, you just feel obliged to disagree with ABL regardless of what she says.
catclub
@c u n d gulag: If it is not a leap year, February is pretty respectable for that event.
The Other Chuck
Party of Personal Responsibility, folks. Really, isn’t Zimmerman the real victim here?
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
In other words, you got nothin’. You tried to make a stupid point that a black teenager wearing a hoodie in a suburban gated community was just as likely to incite violence against himself as a white guy wearing a Confederate t-shirt in Watts, and you got your ass handed to you when everyone pointed out that hoodies are ubiquitous right now, so now you’re having to fall back on “well, everyone knows that Geraldo is stupid, so why even criticize him?”
D. Mason
Nothing. Really? So nothing I’ve written here, has been anything except anecdotes and those anecdotes have been entirely fictitious based on your feeling that they must be fictitious. Gotcha.
I dunno what it means to resort to provocations with violence but I haven’t mentioned much about my view regarding black people except that I feel they’re sometimes justified in kicking someones ass for wearing inciting clothing. That’s racist how? And I do understand your challenge, I also reject it because that’s not what I came here to talk about. Given the way “I’m not outraged by that” has been twisted I can only imagine how the commenters here would interpret “I don’t hate black people”.
Is this the “resorting to provocations with violence” you speak of? Ironic.
jl
To be fair and balanced: Latest Rivera dumbassity is slightly less likely to get people killed than when he broadcast his embed unit’s maneuver tactics during the Iraq war.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne:
I made no such claim.
Chris
Ahhhhh… and sure enough, a guy in my mini-feed’s whining about reverse racism, because an old white lady got beaten and robbed by a non-white guy, and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton haven’t called so double standard and everyone hates white people.
You’d think these guys would get outrage fatigue at SOME point.
TooManyJens
@D. Mason: The fact that you have more of a problem with what ABL wrote than with what Geraldo said should give you pause.
Mnemosyne
@ET:
Actually, the hoodie is what Fox News is using to reassure their viewers that their racism is okay and they’re right to be frightened whenever they see a teenager wearing a hoodie. AFAIK, Zimmerman didn’t say a word about the hoodie.
And D. Mason is here carrying Fox’s water for them by claiming that a black teenager wearing a hoodie in a suburban gated community is inciting people to act violently against him just like a white guy wearing a Confederate flag shirt in Watts might incite people to act violently against him.
Of course, you could try to point out that someone wearing a Confederate flag t-shirt in Watts is trying to elicit a specific reaction, while someone wearing an Abercrombie hoodie is just walking around living their life, but apparently a black guy wearing Abercrombie is totally trying to elicit a reaction in D. Mason’s world and if someone kills him for wearing a hoodie, well, he should have known better than to Wear A Hoodie While Black.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
No?
By even using that comparison, you’re saying that Trayvon Martin should have expected to be shot, because wearing a hoodie while black is exactly as inciting as wearing a Confederate flag t-shirt in Watts.
ETA: Oh, and the “some places” where apparently black people shouldn’t wear hoodies are the suburban gated communities where their parents live. Yep, clearly suburban gated communities are inherently dangerous places where people have to watch what they wear lest they be shot by overzealous neighborhood watch people who totally aren’t racist just because they shoot black people in the street. The hoodie made them do it.
D. Mason
@TooManyJens: I don’t read the things that Geraldo writes, because I have no faith whatsoever in his writing. I read and offer disagreement with ABL because I generally do have faith in the writers at this blog (not the commenters though, to be clear). Even the ones who have sometimes shown themselves to post/comment in bad faith. My disagreement with her post implies that I read her post, an act of giving a shit what someone has to say. As opposed to my treatment of Geraldo which is to completely ignore his existence.
Aaron Baker
I think I agree with wrb at 278, though I probably would add that an ordinary article of clothing (with no offensive message attached) can only incite in the sense that someone has irrationally fixed on it as an incitement.
What then if a hoodie is a frequent component in the racist whackjob’s mental image of a “dangerous black person”? It might make sense (however galling it would be) to advise your black son or daughter not to wear them.
(My interest in this is more than academic; I have a black daughter, who’s made it to the age of 20 without being shot; I want that trend to continue.)
It’s Rivera’s next statement (“I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was”) that takes us into typical Fox News unforgivably-offensive-and-stupid territory.
Lawnguylander
@D. Mason:
I mean, here’s the key piece of your bumbling entry into this thread:
shortstop
@jl: Sure about that?
@TooManyJens: Infuckingdeed.
Ronnie P
Maybe this was clarified within the last 100 or so posts, but was Doocy’s “uh-oh” meant to mean…?
1. Uh-oh, Geraldo, you’ve stepped into it, or
2. Answering Geraldo’s question: Uh-oh is what he’d think if he saw a black kid in a hoodie
ABL 2.0
@D. Mason: You sound like a crazy person. Geraldo Rivera said ” I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.” and you don’t think that’s outrageous? Ok, that’s fine. But the Confederate flag shirt comparison is patently absurd for many reasons, one of which is your assumption that black folks are going to beat up on silly white people wearing Confederate flags as a matter of course. Another of which is your failure to recognize the rank stupidity in your claim that a hoodie might incite someone to violence. Should a Confederate flag happen to incite a black person to violence, it’s because a Confederate flag is the symbol of racism to many black people. So, what is a hoodie a symbol of to trigger-happy vigilantes? NOTHING. It’s the black kid inthe hoodie.
And with this comment —
— you reveal yourself. I’ve been writing “good posts” lately because I’ve been primarily writing about the War on Women. But suddenly I’m back to my old ways of writing about race in a way that makes you uncomfortable. So it’s back to “ABL, why are you outraged about this? What’s the big deal? Nyah Nyah Nyah.” Just knock it off. It’s silly and you’re not doing yourself any favors.
You have thrown caution and logic to the wind in your failed attempts to argue that Rivera’s statement wasn’t outrageous through some twisted argument about clothes that incite to violence.
As for this —
What the fuck are you even talking about? We’re talking about a Hollister hoodie and you’ve moved the goal-posts so far afield that now you’re talking about manufucturers’ intent? Really.
It’s truly one of the more stupid displays I’ve seen on Balloon Juice, and believe me, I’ve seen a lot.
jl
@Mnemosyne: If I were stupid and hateful enough to walk through Compton wearing Confederate regalia, might be a chance some black or Hispanic dudes would beat me up.
But because CA is a totalitarian commie liberal elitist social engineering hellhole, doubtful they could claim self defense and walk away on their say so.
But in Florida? Hey, who knows? Or maybe the FL self defense law only applies to shootings, and knifings and beatings don’t count? Or maybe you have to be a certain kind of person to shoot a man and walk, on your side of the story.
Men dead tell no tales, you know. So, also too, in Florida, if you have to put some uppity dude down, better come correct and make it permanent, just to make sure you are on the right side of the ‘shoot a man and walk’ self defense law. And should probably keep number of witnesses down into single digits.
My count of witnesses who contradict shooter’s testimony in FL case is four, plus girlfriend on phone call. But yet, Zimmerman is so far untouchable due to the ‘shoot a man and walk’ self defense law. Dayam, that is one great law… for murderous sociopaths and incompetent excitable racists.
jl
@shortstop:
“Sure about that?”
No, I was bending over backward to be Fair and Balanced.
LAC
Fuck Rivera and those skidmarks that want to make this somehow that poor child’s fault. I hope the next time Rivera does some of his bullshit investigatory work, the empty vault caves in on him or he gets left behind in enemy lines. D. Mason, glad to see that you are not too outraged by Rivera’s asinine comments – mighty white of you. Didn’t know wearing a fucking piece of outerwear with a hood could cause fear and was some symbol to dumbasses in a gated community. Your attempts to walk back your stupidity have failed and you should stop digging. For the record, that area had a mix of people, and that asshole Zimmerman didn’t know everyone or their family members who lived or visited there. See that pasty thing on the floor? It is your chapped ass that got handed to you – pick it up and go.
Mnemosyne
@Aaron Baker:
Yep. It’s blaming the victim and the victim’s parents — “If only Trayvon’s father hadn’t let him wear a hoodie that night, the boy would be alive today!” As is par for the course with Fox, it is of course completely fact-free and designed only to make their viewers feel better about automatically assuming that any young minority man they see in a hoodie is a criminal.
After all, if, as Rivera is implying, Zimmerman’s mistaking Trayvon Martin for a criminal was a natural one that anyone would make in the same situation because the boy was wearing a hoodie, then they don’t have to feel bad about their own assumptions.
D. Mason
Why do you assume I’m talking about black people there? That was a rhetorical question, I know why. The norm at this blog is to assign the worst possible interpretation to the statements of those who disagree.
There are people of all colors and stripes who get offended by the confederate flag, though black people have the most justifiable anger from my view.
Also, you keep calling me a liar. What is that based on? Is it a feeling? I bet Zimmerman had a feeling too.
shortstop
@jl: Be careful! Going to slip a disc there, my friend. Spines weren’t meant to go to that angle.
pragmatism
@D. Mason:
a few thoughts: 1. you presume that everyone finds geraldo to be as silly as you do. there are plenty of people who are using geraldo’s rationale to provide cover for zimmerman. 2. geraldo can be silly/absurd and offensive. they are not mutually exclusive. 3. you create an incentive for talking heads to say potenially offensive things over and over again and then at a certain point, they are immune from anything they say being offensive.
TooManyJens
@D. Mason:
Nice try, but no. You read enough of what he said to decide that it wasn’t outrageous.
The Ancient Randonneur
Shorter Geraldo: Gun don’t kill people,
peoplehoodlies kill people.Geraldo never recovered from the Al Capone vault opening.
SuzyQ
The (other) sad part of this whole story is, my paternal family hails from Sanford. I can only imagine what they’ve dealt with all these years. I know it would be a shame to never see my family again if there is no justice for Trayvon. I’d never set foot in that state ever again. Still might not, even when(if) there is justice.
Unless of course I’m strapped….I might feel threatened by a hoodie wearing human and need to Stand My Ground! ::rolls eyes::
Mark S.
Shorter D Mason: I don’t care what Geraldo says; I just thought it was important to point out what he said makes a lot of sense. I could totally imagine a scenario where a black guy didn’t get arrested for shooting a white guy in a Confederate t-shirt.
scav
@Mark S.: I am struggling with the idea of a shorter D Mason. Nope. No such beast.
japa21
@D. Mason: I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as long as you can tell me what specific kinds of neighborhoods other than black where wearing a confederate flag t-shirt may even remotely be considered an incitement to an ass kicking.
D. Mason
@ABL 2.0:
I believe you have a more reasoned and understandable approach to womens issues than to issues of race. Should I be apologizing for that or something?
As you should know(because I blockquoted it), that last quote was a direct reply to someones statement that clothing can’t incite due to it’s passive nature. If you don’t understand what I said, which I doubt, then ok, but please don’t pretend you don’t know why I made that reply. It’s beneath you.
RD
@D. Mason:
To be fair, you have quite the history of defending your oppressed White Brothers.
TooManyJens
@Mark S.:
FTW!
Lawnguylander
@D. Mason:
To be clear, “there” means here:
You might as well pretend to wonder why I’m assuming you’re a white guy. Am I to consider that you might have meant Greenwich or some similar neighborhood, and not a predominantly black neighborhood? Or that white people driving through Harlem are going to pull over to kick your ass if they see you wearing a Confederate flag? You are a weak debater.
This:
You made that shit up to back up your first comment. It would have been less obvious that you made it up if you included it in your first comment but I still wouldn’t have believed you. I just would have thought you a more clever kind of liar. Seriously, you’re terrible at this. Find another hobby. Trolling black people is too hard for you.
D. Mason
@TooManyJens: Because of ABL… I surely did not seek out his drivel. I read Geraldo by proxy of reading a blog I generally respect and now that somehow discounts my lack of respect(which is vast) for his writing. I’m in awe right now.
Vodkamuppet
Its been an unusually warm and dry spring here in Detroit but normally I’d where a hoodie everyday this time of year and the hood part of the hoodie really comes in handy when it rains.
ABL 2.0
oh fuck off, dude. (i suppose that’s beneath me, too?)
you don’t like my writing on race because it makes you uncomfortable. my approach is both reasoned and understandable to those who have any inclination to make an iota of effort.
christ, you’re a mess.
LAC
@scav:
a shorter D Mason: Wonder what happened on Idol? Where’s my chardonnay? Oh, yawn…still sad about that hoodie kid?
jl
Bringing Al Capone’s vault is not fair. That was one of Rivera’s more successful projects. I think there was an old soda pop bottle and subway tickets, or coupons, or something like that in there. Interesting story. Probability that it would get people killed was fairly low.
Need to give credit where credit is due.
Mayken
@D. Mason: Except that it is foolish to suggest it – what a woman is wearing has zero effect on whether she is raped. Rapists rape trans-men wearing jeans and t-shirts, old women in their night-gowns, babies etc. There is exactly 1 common denominator – the rapist. Suggesting that wearing and being anything in any place makes you more likely to be raped is plain and simple BULLSHIT!
wrb
@dogwood:
The murder rate is lower in Canada.
TooManyJens
@D. Mason:
…and decided that what he said wasn’t a problem but ABL’s response was. That’s all we’re talking about here, dude. If you think I give a shit about your history reading or not reading Geraldo Rivera, you are very wrong. I give a shit about the fact that you think what he said in this instance is OK while ABL’s response to it is not. Like I said, I think that should give you pause. Obviously it doesn’t, but could you maybe quit digging?
Mnemosyne
Here in Hell-lay, even the goofy radio show I listen to on my drive to work was getting some hits in on Geraldo for this flagrant stupidity. But I guess ABL was supposed to ignore something that’s already getting a fair amount of national media attention because D. Mason doesn’t think it’s important.
D. Mason
Um, I said I was white. It’s right there in your quote.
Martin
@jl:
A chance, but probably lower than people think. You’re likely worse off as a black or latino dude walking through there wearing the wrong gang identifiers.
And for the audience, when you hear the old white guys reference Compton as the generic Negro Tartaros, understand that not many black people live there now – it’s mainly latino. Rodney King was two decades ago.
Mayken
@Liberty60: This a thousand times this! Thank you!
Schlemizel
@Tonybrown74:
Funny, my reaction was to send him a traitor flag and some directions.
D. Mason
Actually, it doesn’t usually make me uncomfortable, normally it just makes me confused, in the instances where I disagree. I guess confusion is a form of being uncomfortable but I think you get my point. You occasionally manage to find the most racist interpretation of something someone says and latch on hard. I can appreciate the fact that you live under very different circumstances than I do and I understand why you are more sensitive to race than me, but I can’t always get on board with how far you take it. With Womens issues you focus your attention on the specifics of the assault on women being pushed through the chambers of law. That is much more clear cut and easy for me to relate to despite having a male organ. That’s all. No hateful intent and no need to get belligerent.
jl
@Martin:
I have in fact walked through parts of Compton, back in the day when its demographics were changing. I would agree that the probability of getting beat up due to provocative (Edit: Confederate) clothing would be low on a normal day, though might get some nasty looks and remarks.
I know from personal experience that there are parts of urban Southern California where merely walking down the street, as opposed to driving, is considered suspicious, even if committed by a white guy. Must be worse for for black or Hispanic person. And in some places, if you are the ‘wrong’ kind of Asian or Pacific Islander.
gwangung
@D. Mason: Dude, you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.
When black people, white people and yellow people keep telling you that you’re saying REALLY stupid things, maybe it’s time to ask yourself, “Self, am I saying something really stupid?”
ETA: Damn got the attribution wrong…
Sly
@D. Mason:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone dig themself into a hole and nail themself to a cross at the same time.
pragmatism
@ D. Mason
you said a lot of dumb shit today, but this is the dumberest:
I should already know I have to moderate my expression of the First Amendment here because of OTHER PEOPLES REACTIONS.
gwangung
Funny how that happens.
shortstop
@Sly: Garden implements are just way better than when I was a kid. We used to have to buy different tools for different jobs, but infomercials have changed all that.
Lawnguylander
@D. Mason:
Um, exactly. So is the bit about the “wrong kind of neighborhood”, hence the joke. It’s funny all the things you dunno. Really, you are the dumbest fuck I’ve ever argued with.
jl
The country needs a self defense legislation for First Amendment rights. Suppose I say something really foolish and people make fun of me. What can I do to protect my right to say ridiculous things without people responding?
Dammit, this country used to be free! Now look at it.
TooManyJens
OMG, I totally missed the part where we shouldn’t criticize him for saying dumb shit because FREEDOM!
gwangung
@jl: Damn, that was good. Gotta steal that.
MJ
The really sad part of this is that Geraldo’s premise is a lie. Because through the eyes of a bigot, a black man = suspicious, no matter what he’s wearing.
True story: My African-American older brother (who is a Brooks Brothers and wing tips type of guy) once got profiled/pulled over by racist NYC cops WHILE HE WAS SITTING IN THE MUTHA F’ING BACK SEAT of one of those black Lincoln Town Cars Wall Street firms routinely hire to take their execs home after late nights in the office. Good times!
WyldPirate
This place is so predictably full of self-rightous sanctimonius pricks. Many of you act as if sterotyping NEVER EVAH happens while busily engaging in the very thing you claim to despise.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
It’s amazing how one jerkwad can turn a thread into a mega click parade. There haz to be a way of bottling this stupid and turning a profit. Maybe the defense for Zimmerman will get a brane fart and invent a new “Hoodie Panic” defense, and git Geraldo and D. Mason to testify for the defense, when this case goes to trial, and it will go to trial, either state of fed, but I bet state first.
TooManyJens
@WyldPirate:
You lie like a Romney.
shortstop
Omigod, and I thought this thread couldn’t get any more entertaining. OldeWyldePyratt shows up to defend Florida’s honor. The Sunshine State is the real victim here.
gwangung
@WyldPirate: Y’all should know. You brag about it enough.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
Now two jerkwads. Katie bar the door.
Schlemizel
I don’t think this impacts this case at all because Z never claimed he thought the kid had a gun but is is sort of related & an interesting note:
Just read a study done by Notre Dame. The showed people pictures of people in different get ups, some with ski masks, some whit hats (didn’t say anything about hoodies though). Some carried things in their hands some didn’t. The asked the subjects to react to what was in the hand of the photo.
Then they ran the experiment with the subject hold an object. When that object was a gun the subject wrongly assume the photo held a gun also. Having a gun near by did not change the perception, you had to be holding a gun.
So you give an asshole a gun & the likelihood that he thinks he sees a gun goes way up.
Mike Lamb
@D. Mason: With all of this digging, you must be in China by now. Is it as smoggy as reports state?
Lawnguylander
If WyldPyrate owns up to being the dumb asshole that D. Mason went to school with who got his ass kicked for wearing a Confederate flag into the wrong neighborhood, (and no one was prosecuted!) then I will apologize for having doubted D. Mason’s story. I totally believe that WyldPyrate would do such a thing. And that D. Mason would know him.
D. Mason
@Schlemizel: This is a theoretical explanation that doesn’t conclude overt racism. You must be a racist.
D. Mason
@Mike Lamb: Smog? Damn I thought that was just the dust from all the ipods being made.
LAC
@MJ:
shorter D Mason: “I am not too bothered by that story. Was “Community” new or a repeat? I would love another glass of wine. Hey, ABL, stop being so angry…”
Seriously, that is fucked up, but not surprising in NY.
gwangung
@D. Mason: You know, most regular people would say, “You know, I said something stupid. Sorry about that” by now.
khead
@WyldPirate:
As a self-righteous sanctimonious prick, I have no problem admitting that I stereotype all the time. Thankfully, though, my stereotyping does not lead to a horrible killing that is being defended by a bunch of douchebags based on those stereotypes.
I just pick a new basketball court (preferably on the other side of the street away from the black folks) when I realize I’m the only white guy around. I mean, I just assume I won’t get picked cause I’m old and white.
But tomorrow afternooon? I’m shooting the first dude I see on the court wearing a hoodie.
Satanicpanic
@WyldPirate: Dude, you’re way too late to catch up to D Mason, you might try a different thread.
pragmatism
@D. Mason: still not funny.
D. Mason
@gwangung: Yeah you’re probably right, but you guys are too much of a hoot.
LAC
@WyldPirate:
Speaking of engaging in something you clearly claim to despise, did you finally clean your room like your Mom asked?
Brachiator
@D. Mason:
Is this thread still on?
So, let’s see. You’re still debating the theoretical meaniing of Geraldo Rivera’s pop sociology, and getting further and further away from the facts of the case. And you keep getting hung up in side issues of “incitement,” which has nothing to do with any part of the “Stand and Fight Law.” Not even a particle of a component. If anything it would contradict it.
So, at the end of the day, we have Geraldo’s idiotic statement, and your dizzingly pointless attempt to refine its dross into some kind of rhetorical gold.
Why don’t you try something simpler, like Pat Robertson’s assertion that the deity should be incited to smite the Denver Broncos because they traded away Tim Teabow?
jl
@MJ:
I believe you. That happened to a friend of mine I knew in graduate school, while he was starting a fellowship at a university near Los Angeles.
I heard about it a few weeks later after I met him.
Black dude with a fancy suit and tie on, sitting in back seat of a nice car, while his host had to run to an ATM to get some cash. He was originally from Africa, graduate degrees from study in Japan and UK, fancy accent.
Made no difference, he ended up face down in the street being frisked. Host was a idealistic and peppy white young graduate student who vouched for him, and she was soon reduced to tears by the fact that what she said made no difference.
Some LAPD bigwig was called out to sort it out, and when the black guy, who served in his county’s army before he went to grad school, made a remark about LAPD’s approach that was considered inappropriate, the LAPD decided to drag out the proceedings for another hour or two.
In grad school, I heard a number of older blacks from Africa, who spent time working in South Africa before white rule was abolished, say that there was more stress and hassle involved in going about your business while being black in Southern California than in South Africa before apartheid was ended.
khead
Also, closing in on 400?
Awesome.
amused
Is anyone else waiting for Mason to crack and brag about his ability to buy a sex slave for the price of a bag of skittles in Oman? The suspense is killing me!
jl
I have a question. How fast to do you have to be able to run, and how far, in Florida, in order to allow some idiot with a gun to stand his ground?
Anyone know?
Beauzeaux
Can we refrain from feeding the troll? Someone who keeps changing his story and is never convinced by any argument. He just wants to keep blathering. Making it all about him, him, him. In the context of the horrible death of this teenager, it’s just disgustin.
brantl
@D. Mason: That’s because you have all the compassion of a dead flounder. A hoodie? Really? Do you ever leave your house? Everybody on the goddamn planet wears hoodies. Yutz
RD
@WyldPirate:
Showing results for self-righteous:
Fear of a Black Planet
Benny
Of course you have the right. Who says you don’t?
On the other hand, if there are crazy people out there shooting people who wear hoodies, I don’t think it’s outrageous to advise a loved one to opt out of wearing one until such time as we can either eliminate craziness or put all the crazy people away.
D. Mason
@amused: So we’ve gone from “I’m not outraged by that” to buying sex slaves? I wish blog comment sections were people like corporations and could look in a mirror because wow ….
Mnemosyne
@jl:
The LAPD pretty much pioneered the “minority populations as enemy combatants” way of policing thanks to William H. Parker, so I’m not at all surprised to hear that. I was attending USC at the time of the LA riots, so I was a second-hand witness to a lot of what your friends were telling you about.
Ironically, for all of its reputation as the “University of Spoiled Children,” USC received very little damage during the riots because the school has always been careful to maintain good relationships with the surrounding neighborhood, so it was mostly the commercial areas surrounding the campus that got hit. I think a few windows and car windows got smashed on campus and that was about it.
jl
@Mnemosyne: I was stuck on the USC campus during the LA riots. I remember watching the local neighborhood ‘patrols’ (pickups with black and Hispanic dudes with shotguns in the back, circling the campus). Interesting experience.
I forgot to mention my friend’s comment to the LAPD bigshot that led to him lying facing down in the street again (according to his story):
“I was an MP in my country’s army, and I would never allow something like this to happen”
And you see, that was considered very provocative and disrespectful, so my friend was suspcious again, even though everything had been (supposedly) checked out. But in CA, at least there is some process. In FL, looks like a similar provocation would allow you to shoot a man, and walk away.
Brachiator
@jl:
And now we are getting closer to the vile de facto implications of this tragedy.
The South Africans, of course, had the hated Pass Laws.
Again, all the drivel over hoodies belies the possibility that Zimmerman felt that he had the right to detain and question Martin, and to fight him, even shoot him, if he were not satisfied.
Martin on the other hand, had no right of free movement, especially if, according to Geraldo and DMason, if there were any chance that he would incite fear and hatred by wearing the wrong clothes.
jl
@Brachiator: What most of them said was, if you followed the rules in South Africa in the old days, you were not hassled, and you got treated decently, and sometimes even some respect. In the US, the real de facto rules were unwritten, and inconsistent with the law of the land, you got hassled more often.
But, then these people were fairly high class academics who were working in South Africa on a temporary basis, often teaching for doing some kind of consulting, so probably not the experience of the average South African black person.
RD
@D. Mason:
Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see as president this time next year?
Mnemosyne
@jl:
I went to my brother’s apartment in Culver City where we could see the column of smoke when rioters burned down the Fedco. We were glued to the news and some poor guy got shot in the leg at the bus stop in front of my dorm.
I’m still amazed that people can talk about the riots like it was just about black people, or just about Latinos, because I saw people of EVERY color and race looting on my TV. There were kids from the yeshiva carrying TVs away before the National Guard showed up.
Kay shawn
I guess the answer here is For everybody everywhere to wear more hoodies so the gun nuts can shoot anybody,anytime. But just as an anecdote, I was in London during the riots last summer, and hoodies=criminals was very much in the public conversation, to the point that some hysterical Tories talked about prohibiting them. Everybody laughed at them, of course. So keep an eye on the already-nutty Fla state legislature—that law might be next!
LAC
@Benny:
Ok, this is why Faux News is a piece of shit “news” organization and why this is beside the issue. The hoodie was used by that fat fuck shooter as some excuse to profile this kid (cause he is a black kid in a hoodie) and harass him. This kid DID NOTHING WRONG!! Perhaps a better thing to be focused on would be oh, I don’t know, better police work, not passing fucked up laws…other than telling our kids to stop wearing hoodies because some dumb fuck might want to stalk you.
Mnemosyne
@Kay shawn:
Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the root of some of the hysteria here — right-wingers love to look at other countries and decide that if rioters in London are wearing hoodies, it’s only a matter of time before the same thing happens here … unless we prevent it! Duh-duh-DUMMMM!
ruemara
@Lawnguylander: Oh wow, I used to travel with those kids on the bus. Y’all had some serious catholic school hooch going on some times. Good old 77. Howdy! Small internets.
jl
@Mnemosyne:
I had quite a few friends at USC at the time, and we explored a little when things got safer. Some store owners said most of the looters were USC frat boys.
As I posted in a comment on this blog awhile ago, I remember standing on the west side of campus right before some locals were going to torch some shops across the street. They were yelling at the USC students to come on over and get what they wanted while the stores were still standing. Quite a few of them took the offer. So, a general free for all while USC students, local blacks and Hispanics, and who know who else, carried out stuff. Then the fires started.
By the time the riots got to Hollywood, it was just general lawlessness.
gbear
Isn’t it just about time for D Mason to say that he’s enjoyed toying with us losers all afternoon but he has to leave to get on with his important and fabulous real life? It’s the only conclusion I can see.
Patricia Kayden
Looks like Geraldo is trying to set us up for the inevitable acquittal from the all-White jury (if Zimmerman is ever arrested).
I guess wearing a hoodie is an excuse for killing an unarmed Black teenager now. Back in the “good old days”, just being Black was enough of an excuse (ask Emmett Till).
shortstop
@amused: Whatever happened to that guy? Wonder how that thread looked to his hungover eyes the next morning. Ai yi.
@gbear: I think that’s what the reference to our being a “hoot” was leading up to. There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can be told by 100 other people that they’re making a jackass of themselves and believe that all 100 other people are wrong, and those who can spot a common denominator when they see it.
taylormattd
omg, the update from his son is great. Lol. You know, I wonder if he will eventually change his tune, with being bitch out by his son.
Brachiator
@jl:
If they were not native South Africans, they may have been partly exempt from the wretched pass laws, which did not particularly respect class or achievement.
amused
@shortstop: I wonder if we’ll ever see wilfred again. I hope so; that was highly amusing! Mason could learn from him, actually. Tipping your hand on the first comment is for pikers.
the fugitive uterus
that last comment was so fucked up, i really don’t know what to say
Uncle Cosmo
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Upon further review, your take is probably closer than mine in terms of what GR actually said. I do think his motive was to keep kids from getting killed, but he effectively gives whackjobs like Zimmerman a pass by implying that people have any sort of justification for “dark skin + hoodie => criminal”. It’s not as if a hoodie is a gang symbol or a union suit for thugs, but Geraldo essentially says it’s “natural” (i.e., OK) for people to treat it as if it is.
pragmatism
pants down around his ankles? you only yell at him when his pants are all the way down around his ankles but still let him go outside the house (to the extent that one can walk with their pants around their ankles)? are they going to have the pants on the ground dude from american idol on fox and friends on monday?
TK-421
After 400+ comments on a thread about a possibly (definitely IMO, at least probably, but for now I’ll say possibly) race-motivated killing of a teenager, I think it’s clear that racism is dead in America. Post-racial society FTW.
/holy heck we have a lot of work to do
Darkrose
@D. Mason: When I was in high school, older white women would clutch their purses and look nervously at me at the point where I was the only black person still on the 103rd Street bus.
I was (still am) barely 5’1″, 110 pounds soaking wet (not so much any more), wearing glasses and dressed fairly conservatively–my Jesuit high school didn’t have a uniform, but we did have a dress code. I usually had my nose buried in a book.
But I was a black teenager and therefore a threat.
The only thing Treyvon wore that was problematic was his skin.
Lawnguylander
@ruemara:
The 77? To the Boulevard of Linden?
It was the 76 to the 36 or the 43 for me. And yes, we had quite some hooch. Now it’s all over my Facebook news feed.
Ruckus
@Sly:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone dig themself into a hole and nail themself to a cross at the same time.
Looks like he’s had lots of practice
ruemara
@Lawnguylander: I used to have to take the 43 at times, or the 76 when I had places to go. And not one single MVB is on my FB feed. The only hooch I get is the rare beer.
Darkrose
@D. Mason:
Seriously. Your ass is visible on Mars. Put on some damn pants, stat.
Ruckus
@shortstop:
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can be told by 100 other people that they’re making a jackass of themselves and believe that all 100 other people are wrong, and those who can spot a common denominator when they see it.
We used to call the first type – Mad at the World.
Everyone and everything else in the world is wrong, they are the only one to get things right.
Natz from AZ
Gerardo in a Hoodie – winning!
Natz from AZ
Gerardo in a Hoodie – winning!
Natz from AZ
Gerardo in a Hoodie – winning!
Amir Khalid
I think it’s been pretty well worked out by now that
1. George Zimmerman was bound and determined to go after someone he had fixated on as a threat, regardless of what he was wearing.
2. Geraldo Rivera’s assertion, that wearing a hoodie makes a young male look threatening enough to attract a violent reaction from a George Zimmerman, reflects only Rivera’s own irrational disapproval of hoodies — which after all are worn by all kinds of people, most of them not criminals.
3. D Mason’s defense of Rivera’s absurd assertion is based on his own claim — itself absurd to other commenters — that a white man could expect a beating just for wearing a Confederate-flag garment in a black neighborhood.
I ask D. Mason, would his hypothetical white man fear getting beaten up by the local hotheads? Or by a neighborhood watch volunteer? The distinction seems important to me.
DK
@Benny: Except people aren’t shooting people for hoodies, they are shooting them for being black in public.
Ruckus
In navy boot camp, a zillion years ago, when someone didn’t get it and kept digging himself in deeper they would accommodate them. There was a huge sand pit. There were shovels. The candidate for stupid had to dig a hole 6-8 feet deep. In loose sand. Once he was done he got to fill it back in. And start over. Day in, day out until the stupid was gone. I don’t remember the record but it seems like around a week sneaks into my memory.
D. Mason
@RD: I voted for Obama last time, I suspect I will do the same this election. Not that it matters, my state is deep red so it’s just a moral support vote anyway.
RD
@D. Mason:
I don’t believe you.
Nix
LOL
Geraldo In A Hoodie is posting every photo of Geraldo Rivera wearing a hoodie it can find. Best one so far: Geraldo and his Fox News colleague Bill O’Reilly sharing a hoodie moment at a Yankees game.
Just look at them. They’re clearly asking for it.
Nix
LOL
Geraldo In A Hoodie is posting every photo of Geraldo Rivera wearing a hoodie it can find. Best one so far: Geraldo and his Fox News colleague Bill O’Reilly sharing a hoodie moment at a Yankees game.
Just look at them. They’re clearly asking for it.
D. Mason
@RD: That’s ok. I’ve been commenting on this blog a long time, since John was a right winger, and my position on Obama has remained consistent. I’m not 100% satisfied with the work he’s done as President, but I’m confident that he won’t turn America into a second world nation before the end of a second term. I didn’t share that confidence regarding McCain and not with any of the current crop. You, like ABL and everyone else here can think just exactly what you like of me and it will never matter, you don’t know me and it’s all just words on a screen.
amused
Oh, honey, we know you’re not here to be liked, you did this to get noticed. How sad is it that you’ve supposedly been here since before the great conversion and everyone takes you for a noobie troll? A 400+ thread must tickle you no end.
“I’m somebody now!”
Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
Fuck.
People shouldn’t have to look to see that what they’re wearing is on the “approved” list before they go outside if they don’t want to be raped or shot. What the fuck kind of country aree we living in, anyway? Why is this so hard to understand?
I’ll say it again: Fuck. Martin was a some guy walking around in his own fucking neighborhood. And some nutbag would-be Dirty Harry shot him. That’s all we really need to know: Martin was walking in his own neighborhood and Zimmerman shot him. Doesn’t matter what Martin was wearing. Doesn’t matter that he was carrying “something” in his hand. Wouldn’t even have mattered if Martin had mouthed off to Zimmerman. (No proof so far that he did, but just wait, sooner or later some asshole’s going to try to speculate that he did, if they haven’t already.) All we need to know is that Martin was walking in his own fucking neighborhood when some fuckwad shot him for being “up to no good” or some such bullshit.
This makes me think of the Henry Louis Gates thing. People found every excuse in the world for the braindead police guy while bending over backwards to make it Gates’s fault. All we needed to know was that some asshole police guy arrested Gates in his own fucking house for “mouthing off”. In his own fucking house, just in case you’d maybe forgotten that.
Anybody who thinks that this society doesn’t value black Americans’ lives a whole lot less than everbody else’s is either lying, stupid, ignorant, has been asleep since, oh, maybe 1617 or so, or has their head up their ass. It’s time to face this ugly truth and deal with it. Too bad if it makes some whites feel bad. Too bad if it makes this lucky, privileged, pasty-assed white guy feel bad. I’ll bet Trayvon martin felt pretty fucking bad when he got shot to death, so the least we privileged whites can do is expose our tender, tender feelings to the harsh truth.
Gretchen
I just got back from book club. I sat next to a 59-year old woman wearing a hoodie. Who knew this suburban engineer is a gangsta on the weekend?
Neldob
@ HS- thank you. If bungholes with guns are killing harmless, dear ones, well, that’s why there should be less people with guns and these ‘stand your ground laws’ are encouraging killer fools.
Nylund
What’s personally funny about those tweets is that that I actually knew Geraldo’s son back in college and he did like to wear hoodies.