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How To Stick The Shiv In

By John Cole March 1st, 2012

Read the last sentence of this post. That is how it is done, folks.

This entry was posted on Thursday, March 1st, 2012 at 7:50 pm and is filed under Excellent Links. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

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57 Responses to “How To Stick The Shiv In”

1 Sad Iron Says:

Word. That is the work of a seasoned professional.

March 1st, 2012 at 7:51 pm

2 Sad Iron Says:

It’s like Tim O’Brien’s novel “In the Lake of the Woods.” Kerrey might as well be John Wade. (Also, one of the best books ever.)

March 1st, 2012 at 7:54 pm

3 Jim, Foolish Literalist Says:

Ugh. Kerrey. The political instincts of Ben Nelson with an ego and a media fan-base that dwarf Lieberman’s, maybe even top McCain’s. And still preferable to whatever corn-fed version of James Inhofe he’ll be running against.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:01 pm

4 General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero) Says:

Say what? Would anyone else but a conservadem type dem be a senator from NE? Sticking a shiv in Kerrey is cheap thrill, and so easy a child could do it. Now having the senate return to the wingers, that’s really funny, ha ha. And besides, Kerrey, with all his bullshit, is still a better choice than Ben Nelson, imo.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:01 pm

5 Bnut Says:

@Sad Iron: I read “The Things They Carried” a few months ago. Just wow. O’Brien is amazing. I’ll pick this up this weekend.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:01 pm

6 Raven Says:

@Sad Iron: The Sorcerer.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:03 pm

7 jrg Says:

Jesus. Is “Stick the Shiv In” a metaphor? If so, you might have been better off picking a different one.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:03 pm

8 Raven Says:

@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero): “Sticking a shiv in Kerrey is cheap thrill,” Yea, in a fucking magazine. Try it in person.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:04 pm

9 some guy Says:

It takes a big man to massacre unarmed women and children.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:07 pm

10 Sad Iron Says:

@Bnut: I promise you, you won’t be disappointed—it’s mind blowing.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:11 pm

11 Sad Iron Says:

@Raven: Just reading that phrase gives me chills. That book can really get to you. “He’d press a button and a whole village would disappear.”

March 1st, 2012 at 8:12 pm

12 MikeBoyScout Says:

Pierce is a godsend to the blogosphere.

Also this from Atrios the other day – “God Hates Atrios
Proof!”

March 1st, 2012 at 8:12 pm

13 Maude Says:

Kerrey would have a rough time with Obama after what he said during the 2008 primaries. I doubt he would be welcomed into the Senate with open arms.
He’s too old and he has been out of politics too long.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:15 pm

14 General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero) Says:

@Raven:

Yes. What happened that night had differing recollections, but was a might bit more complicated than sitting in an office typing words. I won’t contribute any more to this troll bait post.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:15 pm

15 Raven Says:

@Sad Iron: Yup.

The thing that went “terribly wrong” didn’t happen on the night of February 25, 1969 in Thanh Phong. The thing that went terribly wrong happened from the time the first advisors were sent to South Vietnam by Kennedy. The thing that went terribly wrong happened again in 1964, when the Pentagon and the President decided it was so important to indiscriminately destroy Asians for no reason that they had to fabricate a Tonkin Gulf “incident’” to justify escalating the war. It happened again under Nixon. But it was really one long happening, one long disregard for the dignity and the lives of both American soldiers and Asian civilians.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:16 pm

16 Maude Says:

@some guy:
Shame on you.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:21 pm

17 Bruce S Says:

It’s about expanding the Dem caucus, not expanding the circle of progressive or liberal Dems. While these characters are irritating as hell once they’re in, I’m glad they’re in if there is no decent alternative, as there apparently isn’t in Nebraska for 2012.

Let’s be grown-ups…yell at Kerrey when he does shitty stuff, which he will. Not because he’s running in a state where he’s the only Dem (or “Dem” if you will) who can gain a foothold. Let’s face it. Ben Nelson was a total asshole, but without him – even in the totality of his opportunistic, shameless assholeness – the ACA wouldn’t have passed.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:23 pm

18 Mark Says:

Ron Wyden is already the 3rd senator for New York. Do we need a 4th?

March 1st, 2012 at 8:23 pm

19 boss bitch Says:

He was/is President of The New School – I went to the New School for a minute. They do not like him there at all. I remember some of those protests now. Didn’t make the connection before.

Yeah, if elected, he and Manchin are gonna be BFF’s and a real thorn in our backside.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:24 pm

20 WaterGirl Says:

@Maude: I’m pretty certain that what he wrote is sarcasm. Or disgust.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:24 pm

21 Elizabelle Says:

Haven’t googled anything, but I’d still rather have Bob Kerrey than any Republican from Nebraska. Could Kerrey be more of a pain in the ass than Ben “Moderate” Nelson?

Love me some Charles Pierce.

and then there’s Bob Shrum, who knows more about losing elections than any man alive not named Mark Penn.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/p.....z1nuzr7Xbd

March 1st, 2012 at 8:24 pm

22 The Moar You Know Says:

Yeah, fuck that guy, the only Dem who could possibly win in Nebraska.

We don’t need majorities, we need purity. Let the Republicans get the Senate. We are progressives and we do not compromise!

March 1st, 2012 at 8:24 pm

23 Raven Says:

@WaterGirl: Fuck him either way.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:25 pm

24 Bruce Webb Says:

“Sticking a shiv” is all the more unfortunate in that Kerrey’s most celebrated mission in Nam required his team slitting the throat of a granny and five kids to keep operational silence to taking out two “high ranking” Viet Kong officers.

Partially explaining why hero Navy Seal Kerrey’s team reported 8 KIAs with only two weapons recovered.

I am a Yellow Dog Dem and a former Navy guy from a Navy family and back in the day would have voted for Kerrey for anything. But between his actual military record and subsequent political record I would spit on his shadow.

But oddly still vote for him if it came to him vs a Neb Rep. Thank God I am not in that state.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:26 pm

25 Martin Says:

@Maude:

I doubt he would be welcomed into the Senate with open arms.

So long as he has a D after his name from the state of Nebraska, he’ll be welcomed with open arms.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:26 pm

26 WaterGirl Says:

@Bruce S: Here’s where I’ve gotten to. If this is the best we can do, I have just one question:

Will he vote with the Democrats on procedural votes?

If the answer is yes, then “the best we can do” at least gives one more vote to get to get to the 60 votes needed for cloture.

If the answer is no, then I think we might be better off with a republican. Unless he will vote with us at least half the time, and then maybe it’s still better than a republican.

The senate is really fucked up.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:27 pm

27 WaterGirl Says:

@Raven: what am i missing? Is there a history with this person that I am not aware of?

March 1st, 2012 at 8:28 pm

28 Amir Khalid Says:

I Googled Thanh Phong like Pierce said, and found this NYT story. It would seem that former Senator Bob Kerrey is a war criminal, specifically a murderer of civilians.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:29 pm

29 Raven Says:

What did all you fucking experts do to stop the war? Stop paying taxes? Go to jail? I didn’t think so.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:29 pm

30 General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero) Says:

@WaterGirl:

Will he vote with the Democrats on procedural votes?

Yes, most of them. And why he is a better dem than Nelson.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:30 pm

31 Raven Says:

@Amir Khalid: The entire fucking war was a war crime and we were all complicit.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:31 pm

32 WaterGirl Says:

@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero): Sadly, this is what we’ve come to. If he’s the best we can do, and he can win, then I would gladly take him in Nebraska.

Thanks for the link.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:32 pm

33 Jim, Foolish Literalist Says:

@Elizabelle:

Haven’t googled anything, but I’d still rather have Bob Kerrey than any Republican from Nebraska. Could Kerrey be more of a pain in the ass than Ben “Moderate” Nelson?

The model is Lieberman more than Nelson. The Beltway adores Kerrey, and he loves the attention as much as they love to give it. Obviously this is a completely uninformed hunch, but I suspect he would’ve voted with the Dems on the Blunt thing, as did Lieberman. And there’s always the fact that Linda Ronstandt or Debra Winger can always threaten to tell Gawker about that Man’O’War game he likes to play with the riding crop and saddle. Also, too, I haven’t seen any polling, but I’d be surprised if Kerrey isn’t the underdog. I say that without even knowing who his opponent is.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:32 pm

34 jrg Says:

@Raven: Sure. I punch myself in the balls every morning to stop global warming. I can’t say for sure I’ve saved any baby penguins, but some days it hurts so bad I can’t drive, so I guess I’m making a difference.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:37 pm

35 Jim, Foolish Literalist Says:

as for Dems holding a grudge for anything he said about OBama or his relationship with McCain or whatever… just wait till the end of this Senate term. I predict the oratorial stroking of Joe Lieberman to be constant and nauseating. Kerry, Biden, Schumer, Feinstein, Boxer, Durbin, they’re going to be falling all over themselves to sing his praises. And I’d bet that Obama and both Clintons will join in the praise chorus.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:37 pm

36 WaterGirl Says:

@Raven: I cannot fathom what it does to you when little girls and old women and other people who look harmless are trying to kill you and you can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys. And maybe all you want to do is survive and help protect your fellow soldiers.

I thought about vietnam yesterday when I was reading about how shaky everything is in Afghanistan with all the soldiers being killed by people they are training. There’s a great article on McClatchy: They Hate Us and We Don’t Trust Them.

We are now trying to train these people via video because we don’t want them to kill us. I cannot even imagine how our soldiers handle that.

It’s so fucked up that I think it’s time for us to get the hell out of there.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:39 pm

37 Raven Says:

@WaterGirl: It’s all fucked.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:46 pm

38 Augie Says:

Here’s the thing about “Thanh Phong”. Mistakes were made. We need to look forward, not backward, etc. etc. etc.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:49 pm

39 Raven Says:

@Bruce Webb: Most celebrated mission, yea, you know what you are talking about:

Medal of Honor citation

His Medal of Honor citation reads:[6]
Medal of Honor

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a SEAL team leader during action against enemy aggressor (Viet Cong) forces. Acting in response to reliable intelligence, Lt. (j.g.) Kerrey led his SEAL team on a mission to capture important members of the enemy’s area political cadre known to be located on an island in the bay of Nha Trang. In order to surprise the enemy, he and his team scaled a 350-foot sheer cliff to place themselves above the ledge on which the enemy was located. Splitting his team in 2 elements and coordinating both, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey led his men in the treacherous downward descent to the enemy’s camp. Just as they neared the end of their descent, intense enemy fire was directed at them, and Lt. (jg.) Kerrey received massive injuries from a grenade that exploded at his feet and threw him backward onto the jagged rocks. Although bleeding profusely and suffering great pain, he displayed outstanding courage and presence of mind in immediately directing his element’s fire into the heart of the enemy camp. Utilizing his radio, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey called in the second element’s fire support, which caught the confused Viet Cong in a devastating crossfire. After successfully suppressing the enemy’s fire, and although immobilized by his multiple wounds, he continued to maintain calm, superlative control as he ordered his team to secure and defend an extraction site. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey resolutely directed his men, despite his near unconscious state, until he was eventually evacuated by helicopter. The havoc brought to the enemy by this very successful mission cannot be over-estimated. The enemy soldiers who were captured provided critical intelligence to the allied effort. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey’s courageous and inspiring leadership, valiant fighting spirit, and tenacious devotion to duty in the face of almost overwhelming opposition sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

[edit]

March 1st, 2012 at 8:49 pm

40 Omnes Omnibus Says:

@Raven: Dude, I was born on the day between the two Gulf of Tonkin incidents. If you want, you can call me complicit in a lot of shit that came down the pike from, let’s say, the 80s on, but I ain’t taking taking the blame for Vietnam.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:51 pm

41 dogwood Says:

@Bnut:

The Things They Carried is a masterpiece. And as Joe Biden likes to say, that’s not “hyperbole” ; it is “literally” one of the finest work in the American cannon.

March 1st, 2012 at 8:59 pm

42 a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) Says:

@Bnut: O’Brien is also amazing in person, and gracious. I met him at the English department’s annual fiction festival in 1982. It was terrific. Don Delillo also read at that one, and he was not nearly as comfortable as O’Brien during the non-reading parts of the event.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:00 pm

43 Raven Says:

@Omnes Omnibus: I hear ya.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:01 pm

44 Raven Says:

@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Yep, really good guy. I spent an evening with him back when he visited UGA.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:02 pm

45 Raven Says:

@dogwood: Going After Cacciato ain’t exactly chopped liver.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:04 pm

46 eemom Says:

I don’t get it. Are we sticking the shiv in because he’s a blue dog, or because of the Vietnam massacre?

If he were Russ fucking Feingold, would that story be relevant?

WTF?

March 1st, 2012 at 9:10 pm

47 a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) Says:

@Raven: I hear you, man. I was a very young protester, but would have done more if I could.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:17 pm

48 WaterGirl Says:

@Raven: I think this may be another instance where if you haven’t been there, you don’t know how stupid and judgmental you sound. Me included.

Edit: When you just don’t have the experience, it’s easy to see things in simplistic terms.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:32 pm

49 rikyrah Says:

this rocked

March 1st, 2012 at 9:45 pm

50 Bnut Says:

@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): @dogwood: As a GWOT vet, and as a young man still, I have yet to find good works on the current conflict. I did like Nathaniel Fick’s One Bullet Away and of course Generation Kill(the HBO miniseries was absurdly realistic and hit home quite well). But we have yet to see an author emerge from the current crop as an O’Brien, Heller, Mailer, or Marlantes. Too many of the books I read tend towards the anticeptic, without the depth of The Things They Carried. Hell, Pride of Baghdad might be the best I’ve read. Kite Runner was also good.

March 1st, 2012 at 9:58 pm

51 Irony Abounds Says:

As though there is any way anything close to an ideologically pure liberal would win in Nebraska. What Nadar did to this country in 2000 will look like great sex compared to what will happen if the Republicans control the House and Senate beginning in 2013. Kerrey has a shot to win, and I’d rather have him any day and a month of Sundays rather than face that.

March 1st, 2012 at 10:41 pm

52 Ocotillo Says:

Look, you have to hold your nose and hope he actually gets elected. The choices are:

Nominate a progressive Dem who will be defeated in November.

Nominate Kerrey who will probably be defeated in November but because of name ID may actually have a chance.

Now with that in mind and a vacancy on the Supreme Court comes up in the second term, who do you want voting on the nominee, Kerrey or some Tea bagger?

March 1st, 2012 at 10:56 pm

53 cthulhu Says:

Kleeb seemed like a good guy in 2008 but only pulled in 40% in an up year for Dems (and when Obama took the EV for Omaha). So if we want a Dem hold in NE someone like Kerrey is who we are stuck with. But it will be 6 years of repeated frustration, no doubt.

If it is really true that demographics will slowly but surely lead to a period of Dem superiority, the Senate will be the brake on that what with too many smallish conservative states with equal representation. But it is what the Founders wanted…I guess?

March 1st, 2012 at 11:30 pm

54 tomvox1 Says:

I dunno. I think the last sentence is actually a low blow from the normally fantastic Pierce (and I guess our host here since he seemed to dig it).

There’s plenty to dislike about Kerrey without bringing up his actions in Vietnam as a 25-year-old lieutenant trying to execute a raid in hostile territory.

Hell, I’m sure a lot of men in that war (as in all wars) did a lot of horrible things in combat. But I wouldn’t want to judge the rest of their lives by those actions alone. And I can’t see the direct connection between Kerrey’s actions at Thanh Phong and him being a terrible, lame-ass “centrist” good for nothing Democrat. Just a cheap and irrelevant shot when there is so much legitimate stuff to criticize, IMO.

March 1st, 2012 at 11:36 pm

55 joeyess Says:

Jesus.

I read that entire NYT piece on Thanh Phong. Horrifying.

How does Kerrey sleep at night? I have no idea.

I know this: If that happened to me, if I was on that mission and lived to tell the tale, I certainly wouldn’t have it in me to be any kind of a conservative member of congress. I probably wouldn’t have it in me to even leave my house, let alone run for office, not to mention buck my own fucking party every chance I had.

I probably would have ate a bullet before the ‘80s were thru.

But that’s just me.

March 2nd, 2012 at 1:32 am

56 slightly-peeved Says:

I googled Thanh Phong and got a well-rated place to get Vietnamese cuisine in Melbourne. So it took a bit of scrolling to find what Pierce was talking about.

I don’t have any problem with reminding war criminals of their war crimes on a regular basis, but I don’t really see how said war crimes are any more related to Kerrey being a lousy Democrat than him recommending a good place for Pho in Melbourne would be. If he’d said something like ‘Kerrey didn’t have trouble following orders unquestionably before…’ it would be relevant, at least.

My gold standard for journalistic dickery is still the Paxman interview of Michael Howard, former Tory leader. Howard wouldn’t answer a question, so Paxman repeated it. Twenty times. It’s on youtube and a joy to watch.

March 2nd, 2012 at 2:27 am

57 mere mortal Says:

Usually a fan, but in this Charlie Pierce can go eat a bag full of dicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEU2Nf3RHBQ

I suspect LTJG Kerrey, with the dirge he performed during his victory speech, conveyed more to express the hell and stupidity of war than could ever be accomplished by any snide aside emanating from Mr. Pierce.

March 2nd, 2012 at 8:03 pm

How To Stick The Shiv In

57 Responses to “How To Stick The Shiv In”

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