Ron Paul, Abortion, and Honest Rape™
By ABL 2.0 February 5th, 2012
You need to watch Ron Paul answer a question about his views on rape, abortion, and reproductive rights:
“If it’s an honest rape,” Paul replied, “that individual should go immediately to the emergency room, I would give them a shot of estrogen.” He claimed, however, that if a woman is “seven months pregnant” and says that she was raped, “It’s a little bit of a different story.”
Apparently there’s something called Honest Rape™ and that is something different than Dishonest Rape™:
(video after jump)
Pepaw is off his rocker, but he’s “anti-war” so let’s keep talking about how awesome he is. It’s important to the political discourse.
[via Raw Story]
[cross-posted-ish at ABLC]
Posted in Vagina Outrage
Hey, Grandpa, here’s an idea: Keep abortion legal, then you won’t have to engage in this type of pedantry.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
I…what?
You know, I think the stupidest thing is that he thinks there’s just hordes of women out there who would actually do that, wait til they’re seven months along and then go get a ‘bortion, just because they love stealing taxpayer money so much. Women, right? If it ain’t chocolate and ice cream, it’s abortions.
Christ, what a twit.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
I suppose it’s just too easy to be outraged at the phrase honest rape than to be outraged at the actual substance.
It should be blindingly obvious that Ron Paul was thinking that someone who is really raped should be allowed to have an abortion.
His logic fails. Because first, how can you tell if someone is telling the truth about rape, I mean, are you going to have some sort of citizens panel that will determine if someone was really raped?
Second, who cares about the circumstances of the pregnancy, particularly in the first trimester, if someone wants to end the pregnancy, they should be able to end it. No questions asked.
And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t. Look back in History, and think of how many people were lynched because some one claimed they were raped.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
yet another reason to wish that evolution would’ve allowed human males to get pregnant …
February 5th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Don’t forget the siren song of legal pot from this jerkass.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@Spaghetti Lee:
Don’t forget shoes! With the money I saved not raising all those babies I murdered, I can get a pair of REAL Jimmy Choos! Tee-hee!
February 5th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
@Soonergrunt:
Beat me to it :)
February 5th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
At least he’s not advocating that if an engaged woman gets raped in a city and doesn’t cry out, that the rape victim needs stoned to death. That’s a plus.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
there. are. no. words.
but since when has that stopped me or anyone else around ‘ere. i have to wonder what color the criminal code is in wrong pall’s world. i mean is honest rape a misdemeanor? if you raped someone under false pretenses, like you meant to pick their pocket and one thing led to another, something like that?
February 5th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Paul is an un-nominatable, unelectable (at the national level) sideshow crackpot. The progressive/liberal bloggerie has wasted, and continues to waste, billions of pixels on him, his ridiculous and unsupported views, and his purely evil and undeniable past.
I know you have to write about something on Super Bowl Sunday, and I know that Paul pisses you off every time he opens his mouth. But he is no more relevant to national presidential politics than Harold Stassen or Lyndon LaRouche.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
When Keebler says “honest rape” what he means is forcible rape.
If it’s statutory rape, then you’re a little trollop who should live with the consequences.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
oh fer crissakes.
February 5th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
ignorant question here: why an estrogen shot?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
@matt: Maybe it works like Plan B?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Sure there are, and bloodstar even strung them all together.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
@matt:
It inoculates against the Acquired Federal Reserve Syndrome.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
@bloodstar: You’re an idiot. Go fuck yourself.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
@bloodstar:
No one is saying we should punish people because of accusations of rape alone, without evidence.
What we are saying is that anyone [probably female] who complains of rape is entitled to medical care and prophylactic measures against pregnancy and disease. This is totally separate from crime and punishment.
Let me assure you that I believe that half of all bad people are female. I’m not saying that women are all innocent. I am saying that they should get the medical care they need when they need it.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Paul means that if a woman from HIS family is raped, it’s real.
If anyone else is raped…it’s probably not real.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
I wrote about this today as well.
At its core what this is about is rolling the clock back and re-litigating an argument they long ago lost: that certain people get to decide whether a woman was really raped, that certain rapes are awful and other rapes are OK. Say, a white man raping a black woman: well, not so bad as the other way around. Either way, it’s not the woman who determines whether she was sufficiently raped.
We’ve already had these discussions in this country and we’ve already decided. There have been numerous Lifetime movies and Academy Award-winning performances and reams of articles in Marie Claire and Cosmo about this topic. We’ve decided that “no means no,” we’re all told this. Ron Paul is 76 years old and graduated from medical school in 1957 and therefore is of a completely different generation on these topics.
And here’s the thing: it doesn’t matter! It doesn’t. Because this argument has already been won. And pharmaceutical companies now have invented the Plan B pill so a woman can decide for herself, she doesn’t need the gatekeeper of an ER doctor who graduated from medical school in 1957 and thinks he’s entitled to weigh in on the decision. Those days are over.
People like Ron Paul are old men shouting at clouds. It’s too late. The argument has been won, and your side lost. For further proof, the marketplace your side claims to worship has created the product. What further proof do you need that your side lost?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
In related primary news, Kornacki at Salon.com on Romney, Gingrich, Nevada, and C.R.E.A.M.:
February 5th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
In related primary news, Kornacki at Salon.com on Romney, Gingrich, Nevada, and C.R.E.A.M.:
February 5th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Jaysus wept. How many women do Paul and other no-choicers think are going along in their pregnancies, doing their thing, and then suddenly, in the third trimester, saying, “Takie-backsies!”?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
@efgoldman:
I think much of the continued interest in Paul is based on the fact that, before he proved himself to be a electoral loser (again), there were too many so-called liberals who were Paul-curious.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Example #356,238: When someone says, “I’m a Libertarian” these days, what they mean is “I’m an authoritarian Christian-Right asshole.”
February 5th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
@Sapient: Just looked it up. Apparently this was a method of emergency contraception. Before the 1980s, that is.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
I’d also like to say that I am glad ABL is back because I was pretty :( that she left right before Greenwald made an ass out of all his defenders with that “I <3 Nazis" shit
If Greenwald wants to play enemy of my enemy I can more than oblige
February 5th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
@Baud:
I’ll go one further – there is a persistent subsection of Americans who are left sometimes, libertarian other times, because they are really:
THE SUPPLEMENT CREW
They’re the people who buy (and sell!) those holistic medicine caplets that contain 1/1,000,000,000th of, like, dog dandruff and the rest is glycerin and water
They are stupid iconoclasts with no real political thoughts in their heads, just “FIGHT THE POWER”, and they loathe real action by groups of people – they love lost causes
They are conspiracy theorists, 9/11 Truthers, and they are the sort of people who see “WHY CANT GOVERNMENT BE A FAMILY BUDGET WHERE NO ONE USES CREDIT OR LOANS” graphics on Facebook and repost them and never ever think to question whether that makes any sense (because they also repost stuff like GOVERNMENT FLUORIDE PROGRAM DESIGNED TO HURT BLACKS, etc.)
They clapped for Ron Paul in 2008 and then voted for Obama since he was an outsider, and they will canvass for Ron Paul this year and probably stay the fuck home in the general, unless Paul mounts a third-party campaign
They are a cult but they are a cult that voted for the Democrats in 2008 and they are “swing voters” and I know a few of them personally
February 5th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
@bloodstar:
I love it when trolls attack from left and right in the same post.
ABL’s take is right on. I work with someone who is a fanatical Ron Paul fan and who was also raped. I am not going to send this to her though because I don’t want bring up any unpleasant memories for her. I am disgusted enough for both of us.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
@matt:
Sounds like Ron Paul has likely performed what many righties would consider an abortion. I imagine back in the day they gave estrogen shots before Plan B was around.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
GOLD! WEED! ESTROGEN! VOTE RON PAUL!
@AA+ Bonds:
The only Ron Paul fans I see are on the Internet. One of the many benefits of not having friends IRL.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
@R-Jud: How about McQueen’s skull clutch? To prove my heathen bona fides.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
So, uh, you can’t be seven months pregnant and still be raped? WTF-ever.
I really get the feeling these dudes live in a bubble and so many people kiss their ass they absolutely have no idea how fucking awful they sound.
I also like how a shot of estrogen solves any trauma suffered from a rape. Preciate that, Ron. Lovely human being he is. Really.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Can we call it Abe Lincoln Rape?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
@Baud:
LOL LOL LOL
February 5th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
As I said in an earlier thread: note that the woman who was “honestly raped” must get a shot of estrogen instead of a handful of birth control pills, which is the modern approach to emergency contraception in the first 72 hours. A little pain and punishment with your treatment, madam?
And sure, the shot used to be the older treatment before Plan B. So Paul’s choice of words means that he’s really not keeping up with modern medicine all that well, or it was an honest slip of memory (I think they give shots for that now), or he thinks a little extra jab will make raped women take their treatment more seriously.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
@Linda Featheringill:
You appear, in this post, not to be very familiar with Jim Crow and its ongoing and very much alive legacy in Ron Paul’s world are you?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
By “honest rape”, does Dr Paul mean what Whoopi Goldberg called “rape rape”? It was a stupid distinction coming from her, and it’s just as stupid coming from him.
@RedKitten:
What you said.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
@Baud:
I saw quite a few of them in Florida last week.
The Brazilian tourists who were there looked a lot better.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
Another reason to care is that, admittedly it’s a very long shot, he could be the nominee or wind up on the ticket or even be a part of the winner’s Administration. Not to mention that I believe that he’s really angling for a real opportunity to make the Republican Party into his own image. He could one way or another, influence people who could wield power later on.
HIs opinions could wind up as a position on a party plank, or influencing younger officials.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
@Citizen_X:
Fixed.
@schrodinger’s cat: Fierce.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
@I_D_Inuse: Jesus Christos, you Dr. Paul apologists take the fucking cake. You are going WAY off topic here and playing victim by accusing critics of either implicitly supporting lynching or being completely unaware of them.
Nice derail, now fuck off.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
I wonder how a rape/in*est exception would work. I doubt wingnuts would be okay with just going by a woman’s say-so that she had been raped. Does she have to file a criminal complaint? Get a judicial bypass?
The rape exception is a cop-out for Broders and Bobos to stake out what they think is reasonable ground but it would be completely unworkable.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
@AA+ Bonds: At least half of the musicians I know fall into one of these categories. Clowns.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
@Southern Beale: if you want to really have your mind blown, check out this argument. According to random Ronulan (and many like it), if you’re unsuccessful in fighting off your rapist, then you’re consenting to the rape.
I mean—what the???? these people are fucking crazy.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@matt:
Because, although Paul is a board certified obstetrician, he is a fucking idiot, like bloodstar (or whatever)
Fucking morons.
February 5th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
@Comrade Mary:
Are you reading challenged? I am saying Ron Paul is a pure ass racist.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
@AA+ Bonds: WHOA hold on, what? I completely missed this.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I think they let Paul do this to undercut the true anti-war and anti-drug-war movements.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@RedKitten:
Well, no women they know of course. Not their wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, or any good God-fearing Republican Tea Partying women.
But those OTHER women? Especially those women of duskier complexions and more liberal beliefs? Well, they’re all whores who love nothing better than a good abortion—the later in the pregnancy the better. They also want young girls to get the HPV vaccine so they can freely screw, screw, screw their way through middle school and high school, using abortion as birth control along the way.
Don’t you know that women are slutty slutty slut sluts who can’t be trusted to be in charge of their own sexuality and fertility and who, if allowed, would kill all their innocent unborn babies in the womb? They must ask for permission to f*ck and not be allowed the means to prevent unwanted pregnancy or disease if they don’t.
Thank God “libertarian” Ron Paul and his forced birth compadres are here to explain it all to Americans. And by Americans, I mean white men, who really should be the only ones allowed to vote.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
@Jewish Steel: I know, right? OBAMA KANABIS KKK HITLER! BRADLEY MANNING! DRONZZZZZZZZZZ!
If we reimagine these dumbots as 40’s Communists-for-free-love carping about FDR and his use of violence—VIOLENCE I SAY!—against the honest proletariat of Germany (“Hitler FDR ther all teh same LOLZ
“) in his quest for imperial conquest, and then doing the same song-and-dance to defend Stalin in the 50’s, all this becomes so mundane.
As it was, so will it be.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Honest Rape, Violent Rape,Real Rape, Rape Rape…it all comes down to “you better have had the shit beat out of you” and “pictures or it didn’t happen.”
February 5th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
@nastybrutishntall:
Like the Zinn acolytes who like “FDR bad for going to war in 1941,” but forget that, pages earlier, Zinn wrote, “FDR bad for not going to war when the Japanese invaded Manchuria.”
February 5th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
@Rita R.:
Fix’t for you.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
@I_D_Inuse: Not reading challenged, but on a hair-trigger, I guess. Sorry for misinterpreting you.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
@Comrade Mary:
I understand, takes all I have not to commit murder while living in my neighborhood in Dallas TX.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
What, no leeches?
February 5th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
As odious as Paul’s ideas about “honest rape” are, I have to admit I found his honesty refreshing in that interview. Unlike his GOP brethren, he was at least willing to admit that life does not really begin at conception, that no one really has any direct knowledge of what is going on inside immediately following intercourse. Sure, Morgan followed up and got Paul to say “oh yeah, it begins at conception”, but clearly Paul doesn’t really believe that, judging by his earlier, detailed remarks.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
@Sapient:
Except it doesn’t seem to help the boys Sandusky violated.
Probably won’t help Bubba’s cellmate in prison.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Refreshing in the same sense one feels refreshed after a particularly bad bout of constipation has ended – you can tell by the smell that it’s over.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
ABL, if I’ve not welcomed you back, please allow me to do so now. Keep doing what you do, you are appreciated.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
@bloodstar: Go die in a fire and stop hogging all my oxygen.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Apparently there’s something called Honest Rape™ and that is something different than Dishonest Rape™:
Oh, I’m sure Paul’s a far more subtle thinker than that. He probably doesn’t want women rewarded with free care for Fun Rape™, Deserved Rape™, or TooPoorToBeTakenSeriously Rape™ either.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
@bloodstar:
Sat what? You wanna stack that up against the women who don’t report a rape for fear of not being believed by the police or loved ones? You wanna stack that up against the women who DID tell but their attacker is still at large?
February 5th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@ABL 2.0:
This vile “libertarian” position isn’t so far from that in some particularly benighted Muslim (I am ashamed to note) jurisdictions, where if a man is acquitted of rape (or, worse, even if he isn’t) the woman is thereby guilty of fornication. Yes, I am speaking of places that criminalize being a rape victim.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
@Will:
this better be major snark.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
First of all, this lying b’tard is playing the “3rd trimester” game, the completely and totally dishonest pretext that women go around aborting healthy 3rd trimester fetuses for convenience. I wouldn’t think anyone would be ignorant enough to swallow this, without even looking at the data, but then, the far right’s brain function seems prone to short circuits.
Except for Rick Santorum’s wife, I probably can’t name two people who are publicly known to have had a 3rd trimester abortion.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Yeah, well, you know, being lynched because of false claims of rape has always been almost entirely an excuse whipped up by males who can’t stand white women to be around black men who are more attractive than they are.
In today’s world, getting a conviction for rape is almost an impossibility, unless the woman is badly beaten or slashed or somehow nearly murdered or actually killed. The claim that women go around making false rape claims and then courts convict people is a paranoid fantasy.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
@bloodstar:
I don’t see where ABL said any such thing.
February 5th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
@Will:
Odious views, when expressed with refreshing honesty, are not any less odious. And you have to wonder whether a crank like Ron Paul is admirably honest about his views, or merely oblivious to what other people think of them.
February 5th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
OnlY Ron Paul has the courage to talk about “dishonest rape”
/Glentard’d
February 5th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
@nastybrutishntall: Oh, man! I had such an interesting reply and FYWP ated it. You’ll have to trust me, cuz I can’t rightly remember it now.
February 5th, 2012 at 5:35 pm
[...] via { 0 comments } Metavirus filed this under: Abortion, Republicans, Ron Paul [...]
February 5th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Shorter Will: Ron Paul’s views are odious but I like him because he’s principled.
February 5th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
@Jenny:
I don’t see how any honest progressive could not support Ron Paul. They must really like dead Muslim children.
February 5th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
Is that anything like the distinction that George Washington Plunkett made between “honest graft” and “dishonest graft”?
February 5th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Just can’t fucking help it, can you. This is your main problem amongst many. You must always be looking to twist the shiv when not even necessary.
My fault, though. I shoulda known better than to read onward.
February 5th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
@El Tiburon:
umad?
Good.
February 5th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
My son was palling around with Paulites, but he’s moved on, and he’s back voting for Obama.
I told him he has to do 1 hour of Obama canvassing for each email he sent me about Ron Obama, so he owes like 100 hours.
Call it community service:)
It won’t matter, because he’s in Illinois, but its the principle of the thing.
February 5th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Pepaw really is off his rocker. If we can somehow get people to start calling Ron Paul Pepaw I’ll die happy.
February 5th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
@El Tiburon: ABL lacks RESPECT and HUMILITY in the face of the awesome RIGHTEOUSNESS of the ELECT. But, really, many of us do – dumbass.
February 5th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
@Amir Khalid:
“Odious views, when expressed with refreshing honesty, are not any less odious.”
I agree.
“And you have to wonder whether a crank like Ron Paul is admirably honest about his views, or merely oblivious to what other people think of them.”
I don’t believe there is an effective difference between the two here.
February 5th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
@Jeremy:
“Shorter Will: Ron Paul’s views are odious but I like him because he’s principled.”
That’s stupid. I don’t like Ron Paul and never said I did. Nor did I say that I thought he was “principled”. I’m not a Ron Paul supporter, just to get that out of the way. I’m about as big an Obot as you’ll find in this country.
I simply was surprised and found refreshing his candor on the conception issue. You won’t see any other GOP candidates go anywhere near that.
February 5th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
[...] (typeof(addthis_share) == "undefined"){ addthis_share = [];}Kindly old Ron Paul has some, ah, thoughts about abortion and something called “honest rape” in which reprehensible moral [...]
February 6th, 2012 at 10:47 am
It’s a politically clever way of diverting attention from the fact that Obama is simply continuing the Bush policies of diminished civil rights at home and a policy of outright murder by drone overseas, and there is no political alternative to these policies available to voters except Kucinich, a co-opted Democratic midget weirdo, and Ron Paul a co-opted Republican midget weirdo.
Is there anyone who can get behind the Bill of Rights, enforcement of the rule of law, consent by the governed and hey let’s try not to just kill people just this time?
February 6th, 2012 at 6:50 pm