Apparently the WH has agreed to delay their request to increase the debt limit so the Republicans will have an opportunity to grandstand and attempt to renege on their previous agreements:
When the administration announced this week that it intended to initiate the debt ceiling increase by December 30, it stumbled into problem. Congress isn’t set to return from winter recess until January 17 — beyond the 15 day window it has under the law to weigh in on the debt limit increase. Had the administration followed through, Congress — but particularly Republicans — would have had to choose between returning from recess early (and thus entering a big public fight with the administration) and abandoning the debt limit vote.
Seeking to avoid that conflict, the administration will delay the debt limit request by a few days, according to a senior administration official.
In an official statement, White House spokesman Josh Earnest says, “we have been asked by bicameral leadership of Congress to delay certification in order to give both houses time to consider when votes may occur given the current Congressional schedule. The President has agreed to Congress’ request to delay submission of the certification, which he has flexibility to do under the [debt limit law]. The Administration is in discussions with leaders in both houses to determine the best timing for submission of the certification and any subsequent votes in the two houses.”
The most important takeaway from this is the end of the article:
The substantive consequence here is that the Treasury Department will once again have to undertake some of the extraordinary measures they used in July to assure interest on the debt is paid on time.
Beyond that, it’s another illustration of the clumsy nature of the debt limit agreement, which imposed a number of substantive and procedural requirements on what was until this year a routine act of Congress.
Whenever you are confused as to why the Republicans seem to be doing something that makes no sense or is crazy, you really need to come back to this. The goal of the Republicans is not good governance. The goal of the Republicans is to make governing by a Democrat impossible and to beat Obama in 2012. It’s the only thing they really, really care about.
Amanda in the South Bay
Why the fuck is the WH caving in to Republican demands? Seriously, for those of us that rely on Federal benefits, this uncertainty sucks.
Gex
The last time they went through this, the R’s were doing a great job of making themselves look bad to a lot of people I know who don’t usually talk politics. Another round of that isn’t bad. Of course, they will cause more damage than that is worth.
13th Generation
Obama’s Got This!
smintheus
@Amanda in the South Bay: Not to mention that it weakens Obama politically…again. Giving in to this request was an own goal.
Mnemosyne
You’re assuming that it was only the Republicans that made this request. Given what we know about many Congressional Democrats, I think they were probably screaming about their “privileges,” too. One of the biggest proponents of the disastrous decision by the Dems to not do a budget in 2009 was Barbara Boxer, who’s not exactly a Blue Dog.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Was it really a disasterous decision? Thanks to that fight, cancer is more popular than congressional Republicans.
Ben Cisco (mobile)
Easy. He doesn’t want to be the blackity black preznit what made dem good Christian white folk cut their month long vacation to do some work.
__
Not that it will matter to them or the Ferengi media.
Napoleon
Why would Obama agree to this. What a dumb fuck.
amk
@Amanda in the South Bay: Way to miss the point of this post. Who exactly has to pass this limit ? And what happens if they do not pass ? Think it through.
Felinious Wench
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly. “we have been asked by bicameral leadership of Congress to delay certification in order to give both houses time to consider when votes may occur given the current Congressional schedule.” Dems and Repubs.
Satanicpanic
@Amanda in the South Bay: You need to become a job creator so everyone will care deeply about your uncertainty.
Amanda in the South Bay
@amk: What is the point, exactly? That people whose income doesn’t depend on the debt limit not being raised think its a good way for n dimensional politicking to make the Republicans look bad? At this point, I just want things to work smoothly, not get gummed up by the House GOP making these demands.
Veritas
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Nervous about your food stamps?
Ben Cisco (mobile)
Cannot wait for election day.
smintheus
@amk: John’s point is pretty clearly stated, and it also seems clear to me that Amanda wanted to discuss the issue from another angle. Where’s the sin in that?
Benjamin Franklin
He’s just taunting them.
amk
@smintheus: What angle ? Folks need some serious civic lessons.
Mike Lamb
@Mnemosyne: The reference to “bicameral” leadership certainly suggests Dem involvement. If it’s Cantor, Boehner and McConnell making the request, then it’s a bit of a problem.
FlipYrWhig
It seems to me that, pretty consistently, Team Obama prefers fair play to opportunism and hardball tactics. Republicans voted for what they voted for looking forward to a chance to make a fuss, so give the baby his bottle. This obsession with point-scoring and projections of strength and weakness based on extreme insiderish stuff that no one will ever hear about is one of the most aggravating aspects of the liberal blogosphere.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
Shouldn’t it be “both chambers,” not “both houses”?
@Napolean Yeah, that Obama is one sorry, stupid muthafucker, ain’t he? Doesn’t know shit about dealing with adversaries. You just know he’ll never amount to anything in the political world.
=o /
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
Since when is Congress on recess? They’re still in session so Obama can’t make any recess appointments. The idea that the President shouldn’t do something while Congress is on recess when Congress is not actually on recess is absurd.
Fucking Republicans. Either take your recess or don’t. I kinda wish Obama hadn’t given the Repubs their way on this, but since letting them grandstand about cutting off unemployment and social security checks can only help the Democrats come November I understand why he did.
amk
@Amanda in the South Bay: Way to miss the point… Again.
Norwonk
Didn’t Zandar just tell us that Obama was playing the GOP like a church organ in this matter?
Famous last words. Never misunderestimate the Democrats’ ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
eemom
hey Cole, if you need an excuse to ban that tedious asshole “Veritas” I’d say comment 12 qualifies.
But you don’t need an excuse, because it’s your blog and he is in fact a tedious asshole and contributes less than zero to the conversation here.
Pretty please.
amk
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: More than the politics, it’s the reality of the laws and rules in play here.
smintheus
@Mike Lamb: I suspect the opposite: if it had been bipartisan, I think the WH would have used that word. Hard to believe that Reid did not realize a debt limit fix had to be in the works over the vacation, but the Republican leadership is out to lunch wrt to nuts and bolts stuff like that.
Rafer Janders
Seeking to avoid that conflict, the administration will delay the debt limit request by a few days, according to a senior administration official.
*Smashes head on desk*
*Sobs quietly*
Keith G
Remember Amanda, criticizing the President is a sign of privilege.
Veritas
@eemom:
LOL, I’ve been banned a dozen times or so already.
FlipYrWhig
How many times has a story like this lit up the blogosphere? “OMG the meeting was supposed to be on Thursday but then the Republicans said Tuesday and now it’s going to be Tuesday Omg he caved again capitulation I’ve never been so profoundly disappointed probably I should consider staying home and definitely not volunteering I wanted change oh no oh noes!!” And then a week later no one even remembers.
Roger Moore
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Honestly, though, there isn’t any real uncertainty. Obama is giving in because he can without causing any real damage. The Treasury Department can juggle things for a few extra days as they did before the debt limit fight, and there’s no chance that Congress will pass a disapproval of the debt limit increase, much less manage it with the 2/3 majority they’d need to override a veto. It’s just another case of Obama bending over backward to appear reasonable. In this case, it won’t make any practical difference but will let him score some PR points, so it’s hard to see why he shouldn’t.
Mnemosyne
@Rafer Janders:
Given that the White House didn’t say anything about “seeking to avoid the conflict” in their statement, I hope you’re giving yourself a concussion because of the mendacity and bias of the story’s writer, not because of a “misstep” by the WH.
gbear
How can this be an own-goal by Obama when he has the power to raise the debt limit no matter how congress votes? He basically owns the goal on this one and is just juggling the timing of this so congress has the chance to rant like pre-schoolers before he blows them off. Isn’t that how this is going to play out?
Baud
My guess is that Obama wants to focus on the full extension of the payroll tax cut when Congress returns. GOP (and by extension, media) whining about this issue would have been a distraction.
Omnes Omnibus
Obama has pantsed the GOP everytime thongs like this have come up. Why would this time be different? Does the previous agreement let Obama raise limit unless the House, the Senate, and Obama himself agree that he can’t? IOW isn’t this theatre wherein the GOP gets to look petty, mean, and stupid? How is that bad for our side?
Raven
@Veritas: More like her Va benefits you sorry piece of shit.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
Jeez, the entire Hand-Wringing Brigade is out in full force here, today. I should pull myself away from the computer, go pick up my foodstamps.
FlipYrWhig
@gbear: Yes. But a reasonable reaction like that one curtails your ability to bang your head into imaginary walls over nonsense!
smintheus
@amk:
So do you if you don’t realize that people have legitimate real-world concerns when politicians in DC mess around with financial housekeeping. Nothing obliged Obama to postpone, he did it knowing the GOP wanted to mess around, that causes problems for ordinary people, it’s a legitimate point to make.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Raven: Veritas hates the troops and wants the government to abandon them. Pass it along.
amk
@gbear: Obama has the power to raise the debt limit on his own ?
Cricket
Obama can raise the limit, and the House and Senate can vote for a “resolution of disapproval”. Assuming that resolution was passed by both houses of Congress (a big assumption, given the Dem controlled Senate), the President can veto the resolution and still raise the debt limit.
This decision was made so that Republicans can’t grandstand on the President cutting them out from the debt limit process. It’s not going to affect whether or not the debt limit is raised. Really, it’s not.
Benjamin Franklin
@Raven:
Dood. He loves dem salty Dawgs.
Mark S.
@Veritas:
That’s something to be proud of?
amk
@smintheus: Then change the law.
RP
@gbear: Right. There’s nothing substantive about this. Congress does not have the power to keep the debt ceiling where it is as per the terms of the agreement. All they can do is “disapprove” of it through a meaningless vote. I suspect that the WH wanted to do this with minimum fuss, but once the GOP raised a stink decided that it was better to let them rant and rave like a bunch of toddlers about the debt ceiling instead of Obama being a big meanie.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@smintheus: Except, in this case, the GOP can’t do anything except rant like the whiny babies they are. They need 2/3rds majorities to fuck around on this, and that will never happen. Let them spend a couple news cycles talking about how much they want to eliminate unemployment and food stamps, and let their poll numbers drop again. There’s no lose here, other than the loss of an opportunity to kick the Repukes in the balls.
I’ll grant you, I like seeing Repugs kicked in the nuts as much as any sentient being, but it’s not a priority.
DanielX
@Omnes Omnibus:
Inquiring minds want to know: is this deliberate or not?
Mnemosyne
@Raven:
Aw, veterans are just a bunch of freeloaders who think they deserve the benefits they were promised when they signed up just because they volunteered to accept low pay and the risk of death. Veritas never needed a college education and he’ll be damned if Amanda gets to have one just because the Army guaranteed to finance one for her when she signed a contract with them.
I do love how conservatives think contracts can be altered or broken whenever they feel like it, though. No wonder the courts are clogged with lawsuits — it’s all of the conservatives whining, “But when I said I would deliver the merchandise upon payment, I didn’t realize I would actually have to do it if I wanted to keep the payment!”
amk
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Bingo.
Mark S.
@Cricket:
That’s how I remember it.
I wasn’t paying much attention a month or so ago (really busy). The super committee didn’t agree on anything, so are those automatic cuts (including defense) going into effect?
askew
@Amanda in the South Bay:
This is a boneheaded move from the WH. I don’t know why they agreed to this. It totally makes them look weak.
Holden Pattern
I am reliably assured that this is unpossible because “Obama’s got them by the short hairs again“.
Mike E
Fix’t.
gbear
@amk: I believe that congress gave the president the right to raise the future debt limit during the last debt crisis. Congress retained the right to loudly moan and wail about it, which is what it’s all about for them anyway.
edit: and of course half a dozen people already made this point while I was off getting a treat…
Omnes Omnibus
@ DanielX: Fucking autocorrect has a dirty mind. It is funny though.
smintheus
@gbear: Obama imagines that he burnishes his reputation the more he bends over backwards trying to compromise with Lucy, whereas he just reminds people that he spends most of his time spinning in place.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t think that’s true. Contracts that promise to pay our Galtian Overlords one zillion dollars must be obeyed to the letter. At least by the companies obliged to do the paying; I don’t think the Galtian Overlords are actually required to follow through on their side of things to get their pay.
Corner Stone
@Norwonk:
You mean something like this?
“Pretty sure this was the plan all along, and the GOP is now facing having to blow their vacation or miss their big chance at portraying the President as the most vile of all villains when of course previous Presidents jacked up the debt limit all the time, including Dubya’s seven times and Reagan’s 18 times. Your move, Republicans. You already lost that fight once.
If you ask me, President Obama’s got them by the short hairs. Again.”
What you fail to realize, Norwonk, is that it’s always the best of all possible worlds.
lacp
Since they can’t really stop it, I suppose the Repubs will try and drag things out for as long as possible. I dunno if there’s a time limit on this or not, or if it’s just until the President gets tired of listening to them.
smintheus
@amk: Change what law, the one requiring Obama to postpone to suit the Republicans’ vacation plans? Oh, wait, there is no such law.
Corner Stone
@DanielX: We all saw what he did there. Obviously he’s already got his kilt on for New Year’s.
Mnemosyne
@smintheus:
Fix’d. Again, if you think this was all due to Republican complaints, you should probably read the statement again. “Bicameral leadership” means it was both Republicans in the House and Democrats in the Senate who asked for the delay.
gbear
@smintheus: You can just go ahead and think that. Your call to make.
amk
@smintheus: umm, like this one ?
Under federal law, the amount that the government can borrow is limited by the debt ceiling, which can only be increased with a vote by Congress.
chopper
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
which is why i’m confuzzled as to the WHs response here. obviously they know all this, so there’s a reason, and obama’s a smart guy so there must be something behind the scenes.
mk3872
Sorry to interrupt the “Obama Disappointment Party”, but Harry Reid asked for the delay, too.
There are likely Dem Congreasemen who wanted to voice opposition in a grandstanding way, too.
Now back to the Obama is a pussy whining …
smintheus
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: Probably would have scored more points with the public if he had called their bluff and forced them to rant and rave about how much they cared about the debt ceiling while they were trying to decide whether to cut their vacations short and do something (meaningless) about it.
RalfW
Late to this party.
FVCK. Why did the WH have to crumple on this? It was a nothingburger that came really nicely on the heels of Boehner’s boner on the payroll tax cut.
Fer chrissakes, I do think the Obama admin are wimps. Won’t change my vote, but it s.u.c.k.s.
jimPortlandOR
add this to the bulging file labelled: Obama Caves Again.
SW
Well, the payroll tax cut thing reassured me that there is a strategy. I may not agree with all the moves. I just wouldn’t have the patience for what he seems to be doing. These bastards are such obvious cretins that I don’t believe that I would be capable of showing them any deference what so ever. Indeed my instincts tell me that showing them deference is counter-productive. Sort of like turning you back on a hyena. But it is his ball game and to mind he has given me sufficient evidence that he is no idiot. I am quite willing to sit back and watch just exactly how he makes fools out of these people.
13th Generation
Obama cannot fail, he can only BE failed.
Drum Circles And Weed
Obama’s got this, guys.
Anyone know a good Occupy protest in the Bay Area? I need to get my drum on.
kdaug
@amk:
Yup. The way the law is written, the debt limit is increased automatically unless Congress passes a resolution to deny it – which the president can veto.
So let them have their TV time wailing about how we need to balance the budget on SocSec and VA benefits, and sit back and watch them drop below the 9% approval floor.
No downside, upside is the GOP further damages the brand, most likely it’ll pass quietly once everyone gets back in town and no one gets their fee-fees hurt.
It’s like letting someone have their temper tantrum, screaming and threatening and flinging poo, while you’re holding a .45 in your lap.
Corner Stone
“Bicameral leadership” doesn’t actually have to mean Dems also asked for a delay.
There is such a thing as Minority Leader in the Senate.
Did Dems also ask? Probably. But that’s still an assumption without further clarification.
amk
@gbear: I know mcturtle floated such an idea (which by itself is a suspect) but was it agreed upon ?
smintheus
@Mnemosyne: Not necessarily; there is Republican leadership in the Senate as well.
FlipYrWhig
I cannot believe anyone gives a microscopic shit about this. Seriously. It’s insanity.
mk3872
@Corner Stone: Just wait to see conservaDEMS like Nelson & Manchin grandstand on the debt limit increase. That’s all the proof you’ll need.
Mark S.
Wait, some of you actually think this is a big deal? Obama’s delaying a request for a meaningless symbolic vote for a few days. Who the fuck cares?
smintheus
@amk: Nope; Obama was already voted the authority to raise the debt ceiling. What law forced him to postpone doing it to convenience vacationing Republicans?
The Republic of Stupidity
Actually, I’d also ad, “Making the Federal govt in general look as bad as possible, so they can continue to shriek in utter indignation and deliberately soil themselves at the unfairness of it all… to THEM…”
And thereby have a perfectly legitimate excuse to continue dismantling all and any parts of the govt they dislike, which is apparently everything but the parts that benefit them and theirs directly…
The military… prisons… underaged pages…
kdaug
@Mark S.:
Jan 2013. Still a year for wailing and gnashing of teeth.
RalfW
@Mnemosyne:
Maybe.
It could just be Boner and McChinless. Bicameral. And they are leaders. Minority leader in the Senate is an honored (if dishonorably executed) role.
eta: not first to notice. ANyway…
amk
@FlipYrWhig: It would be irresponsible not to speculate … or whine for that matter.
mk3872
@FlipYrWhig: LOL! Ever since the freak-outs over the insider dealings of the Healthcare Bill, nothing surprises me anymore.
Mnemosyne
@smintheus:
And there is Democratic leadership in the House even though the Republicans have the majority.
I seriously doubt that the minority in the Senate and the majority in the House were single-handedly able to make the White House change their minds without any support from the majority in the Senate and the minority in the House but, hey, if you prefer to think this is All Obama’s Fault despite the multiple other times he’s been backstabbed by Congressional Democrats, be my guest.
eemom
John Cole is to the LEFT of Obama on the debt limit.
tee hee
smintheus
@FlipYrWhig: Think the stock market might take a tumble over the uncertainty? And then blame starts getting flung around for that?
RP
@chopper: It’s only confusing if you think this issue is meaningful in any way. I doubt the WH sees it that way, and so they’re shrugging their shoulders and saying “fine, whatever.”
I think this is a fundamental point that many on the left miss about Obama. When he said he wanted to change the culture of DC, one of the things he hope to change was the relentless focus on the mindless, “who won the week,” horserace nonsense. So they’re fine with losing small, meaningless battles if the losses don’t undermine their longterm goals. What the WH miscalculated, however, was how much the LEFT cares about the day-to-day horserace stuff. Many on the left want a President who will make them feel good, even if those good feelings don’t necessarily translate into policy successes. I think the stimulus is a great example of this: I have many friends who were furious that he didn’t ask for a $1 trillion+ stimulus at the beginning, even as they concede that he probably couldn’t have gotten much more than $780 billion. It’s the “fight” that counts for them, but Obama doesn’t share their views.
Cricket
@jimPortlandOR: He caves by letting Congress have a symbolic vote? That’s a pretty silly thing to be upset about.
When you start using “cave” to describe minor procedural adjustments, you’ve robbed the word of all meaning.
Veritas
@Mnemosyne:
I graduated in college, and in something actually useful, not Women’s Studies or Queer Musicology or some other worthless piece of paper.
smintheus
@Veritas: So what did you study, ‘In Vino’?
Veritas
@smintheus:
I’m a computer programmer.
Mark S.
@Veritas:
Apparently not in English.
amk
@Cricket: @RP: Yup.
Yutsano
@Mark S.: Low hanging mangoes. Gotta love em.
Comrade Mary
English Grammer, right?
EDIT: Jesus, you write code? You obviously don’t know that symbols mean things and that they should be used precisely. What do you have to sacrifice to the compiler fairies to make things work?
rikryah
I believe this was the entire plan. they won’t be able to help themselves, and will show their insanity once again.
amk
@Mark S.: Thwack.
Sweet.
Veritas
@Comrade Mary:
Ohhh, you found a typo! On the INTERNET no less! Clearly, you are my intellectual superior. Or, more likely, a bitter English major who currently works the closing shift at Starbucks.
People like you make my lattes.
Corner Stone
I believe this outcome was the outcome. That other outcome was not the outcome.
amk
@Veritas: Projection and CD. Purrfuct.
Interrobang
@Veritas: I know guys like you. You never got over the butthurt of not making a zillion dollars anymore after the dot.com boom, when the suits realised that generic code-monkeys with CS degrees were a glut on the market, did you?
Me, I’m a technical writer. I know all about programmers who are so full of themselves they look like human Klein bottles. I work for the littlest big important company you never heard of. I know you’ve got some of our tech in your house, because your type isn’t the type not to.
For what it’s worth, I have a degree you’d probably think was “useless,” or maybe two. The people who hired me didn’t think so. (The major benefit of a good liberal arts education is that you can always spot bullshit when it’s headed for you, and you, my unfriend, are practically a trebuchet of BS.)
Omnes Omnibus
@ Veritas: Stating your current job does not indicate what your major in college was. I know a guy who majored in didgeridoo and ended up an exec at Microsoft.
Corner Stone
Not really a latte kind of guy. But latkes? I could get down with some latkes about now.
smintheus
@Veritas: I guess I might be pretty bitter as well if I’d wasted my college years studying computer programming.
John - A Motley Moose
My first thoughts on this were, “WTF? Why give in on this?” When I thought about it a bit more I realized it was probably a good idea not to force the issue. In the first place, while the base would have loved to see him stick it to the party of no, it wouldn’t have played well with low info voters. They are begging Washington to work together to provide solutions. Secondly, the GOP has just admitted that they are in recess. Could that have been the administration’s reason for playing it this way in the first place?
Comrade Mary
@Veritas: Shorter Veritas: “Increment, decrement, excrement, what’s the difference? It’s my code and we’re shipping it!”
Howlin Wolfe
@Veritas: eat it, Pseudolus. go troll a blog where somebody cares about your lies.
rlrr
@Veritas:
And with your shitty they attitude probably add some bodily fluids to your lattes…
Corner Stone
@John – A Motley Moose:
One way to find out!
Lojasmo
@Napoleon:
He’s generous with the rope. I have actually never seen you generate a comment here that indicates you are any position to comment on the President’s intellectual prowess.
@VeritASS:
and because you are dumb as a rock, you keep coming back to spout bullshit, you nattering little bitch.
Veritas
@Omnes Omnibus:
Computer science. @Interrobang:
Bwahahah! Liberal arts departments teach nothing anymore but multi-culti moral relativism and vulgar Marxism. Useless BS? That’s all they teach anymore.
I’ll grant being a technical writer is a useful skill. That’s probably the only kind of English class anyone should be required to take in college. It’s the only kind that matters in the marketplace, just like the only art you can make any money in is in commercial artwork.
amk
@John – A Motley Moose: Interesting point. Time to strike with some recess appointments ?
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@smintheus:
Which public are you talking about? Sure, he would have scored points with you and me. Do you honestly think that the great mass of low-info swing voters would feel the same? Most of these idiots still think the problem with the government is that both sides just won’t put aside their differences and roll up their sleeves and work together for the good of the country and blah de blah blah. These are the people who decide elections.
And don’t tell me that the people want a strong leader, so Obama needs to be a dick. The people want a strong leader who gets what he wants. Obama is going to get what he wants. The fight is already won. The Republicans can do absolutely nothing to stop the debt ceiling increase, but they can certainly make themselves look bad by whining about it, so why not let them? Do you think the public really wants to hear more about the goddam debt ceiling? Let the Repukes own it all this time.
What, was there some other urgent business Congress had to get onto that will be delayed by more debate about the fucking debt ceiling? As far as I’m concerned lame duck season has already started for one of the worst Congresses of all time.
I do think that it’d be worthwhile for Obama to press the issue a little if only to highlight the procedural tricks the GOP is using to prevent recess appointments, but whatever. I’ve given up on seeing any real Democratic pushback on that by this point. Besides, it would just go over the heads of the dipshit swing voters anyway, since it’s more complicated than they’re willing to think about.
Veritas
@smintheus:
What was your major? I’m guessing it was something with the word “Studies” in the title, yes?
Howlin Wolfe
@Veritas: I hope you lose your ability to make your vaunted “nearly six figures” (what? you have 6 barbie dolls?) so you can know what it means personally. If you’re lucky, your pals in the GOP won’t have shredded the safety net. If it has, you need only look in the mirror at your own twisted, ugly visage to know who to blame.
litlebritdifrnt
@veritas I would love to see you say shit like that to the face of my former USMC BA Music Ed husband. He would slap your pimpled face silly you dweeb.
Amanda in the South Bay
Yeah, it sorta sucks being a veteran and relying on the Gi Bill for most (if not all) of your income. How dare vets rely on promised benefits to allow them to go to school full time without worrying how to fit in a crappy job at the same time.
Benjamin Franklin
@Corner Stone:
Pommelines for dessert?
http://www.biscoff.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_category.php?catid=PASTRIES
Cricket
@John – A Motley Moose: Honestly, I think someone just messed up on the timing of the announcement. We’ve went through this exact same procedural vote in September and there was no drama then.
RP
I’m amazed by how eager some on the left are to pounce on these stories. It’s almost as if they’re hoping that Obama will do stuff like this so they can complain about it…
Howlin Wolfe
@Veritas: At least he has a degree. You probably have some toilet paper substite diploma from an on-line for-profit “university” in the oh-so-rigourous field of “bizniss administrayshun” — bully for you and your nearly six figures!
FlipYrWhig
@John – A Motley Moose: No. It’s not strategic either way. It’s absolutely immaterial. There are reasons we can come up with for why it’s a good idea, and for why it’s a bad idea. It doesn’t matter either way. The kind of person to whom something like this matters is Mark Halperin. We shouldn’t give a shit, and we should point and laugh at the people who pretend to give a shit in order to have an excuse to grind a very old, dull, and rusty axe.
Veritas
@Howlin Wolfe:
Ah, Envy, the fuel of Liberalism and “progressives” everywhere, and the only vice that has no pleasure in it. Now wonder you guys are always so miserable.
Benjamin Franklin
Technical writers.
There’s nothing more obtuse than an engineer attempting to string words together.
Ever had to read the instructions for assembly?
TECHNICAL WRITER
rlrr
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know several successful programmers and software engineers who majored in English, history, music, etc.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
We get another round of Republicans being asses on TV, and then Obama raises the debt limit after he says “grow up” (he’ll use more words, but it’ll basically be the message).
Comrade Mary
Oh, it’s tautology bingo! Or self-parody. Or someone who cries whenever something like Voice of Fire sells for big bucks.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
@mk3872:
NOBODY
expects the Spanish Inquisitioninterrupts the Obama Disappointment Party!Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Veritas: Your ideas about higher education are boring.
Tell us more about how great it would be to cut off funding to the VA and social security.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Veritas: Really, I hope not. Given your thought processes here, I bet “Hello, World!” in Basic or Python is still giving you trouble.
Veritas
@rlrr:
I don’t have a problem with degrees like English and History, the “classic” liberal arts degrees (though you should probably have a back-up skill that’s more marketable) , as much as i have with bullshit degrees like Puppetry, Queer Musicology, The Phallus (yes, that’s a real major now at none other than Occidental College), and pretty much anything with the word “Studies” in the title. Useless, unmarketable dreck and a waste of money.
blondie
In a nutshell.
Yaco
@Mark S.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1ekuvSYzE
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@RalfW: You’re missing the opportunity to watch the Republicans to whine again, have it caught on video, and then spliced together to be played back as ads. Maybe even more Boehner crying images.
rlrr
@Veritas:
Anyone who treats college as a trade school misses the point of an education…
Veritas
Though, really, can’t you just learn about history or music as a hobby in your spare time? Go to a fucking library, universities are to get marketable degrees that will make you more money.
gnomedad
Watch out, Veritas has a degree in academic nut-picking. Also Ayn Rand poetry magnets.
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
Why does this irresistably remind me of the insistence of the “Left Behind” books that Rayford should be the object of constant, worshipful admiration because he’s — wait for it — an airline pilot.
So you’re a code monkey. Big whoop.
Corner Stone
@Benjamin Franklin: Sorry, no.
There are only two things I can’t stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures… and the Dutch.
eemom
Cole. Why won’t you make it go away??
John - A Motley Moose
@FlipYrWhig: You’re
probablyright. It really isn’t much of a story. It will probably get a lot of play on political blogs, but that’s only because this is a very slow news period for politics. And for the same reason it’s a slow news period, the general public isn’t paying any attention to Washington. This will be reason number 1,947 to vote for or against someone next November.smintheus
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Obama has almost always avoided making clear that it’s Republicans who are being the obstructionists. Instead, he blames ‘Congress’ as a whole, or talks even more vaguely about political paralysis and the like without attributing responsibility to anybody. He wants so desperately to be seen as bipartisan that he all but refuses to pin blame on Republicans. In the end, he has nobody but himself to blame when the public continues to think both parties in Congress are equally at fault.
Veritas
@Mnemosyne:
Better a “code monkey” than an over-educated (or mis-educated?) Barrista or fry cook.
rlrr
@Veritas:
The Phallus (yes, that’s a real major now at none other than Occidental College)
Really? Show us a link describing “The Phallus” as a major.
You can start here: http://www.oxy.edu/
Veritas
@eemom:
Seriously, I didn’t make that up. It’s a real degree at UCLA. Queer Musicology.
I mean, what do they do? Listen to “It’s Raining Men”?
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
No, it’s a course title. That’s why there’s a number next to it.
Did they do a lobotomy when they accepted you into computer science so you can’t tell the difference between a course title and a major? Or is that one of those things that Rush told you that you believed wholeheartedly because Rush always tells you the truth?
FlipYrWhig
@Veritas: Here’s a list of majors at Occidental College. No one majors in “Puppetry” or “Queer Musicology.” You’re making shit up. There may be _courses_ in those things, or students getting credit for independent studies in them, or doing research projects on them, or faculty running research centers dedicated to them. Not the same thing as a major. And, if you had actually gone to an actual college, you’d probably know that.
Veritas
@rlrr:
Right here.
Lori
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: Exactly. Either Obama does a ton of recess appointments, or he’s a fool. He impresses me as a very smart guy, so I’m expecting major recess appointments.
rlrr
@Veritas:
I’m sure you won’t complain too loudly when your job gets outsourced to an Indian company so your ex-employer can make a bit more money…
Corner Stone
@rlrr:
I’ve always referred to mine as Captain. So this is quite the battlefield promotion.
Veritas
No, it’s not a biology course. It’s a survey, offered by Oxy’s department of critical theory and social justice, of “feminist and queer takings-on of the phallus.” Topics include “the relation between the phallus and the pen1s, the meaning of the phallus, phallologocentrism, the lesbian phallus, the Jewish phallus, the Latino phallus, and the relation of the phallus and fetishism.”
smintheus
@Veritas: Wrong as usual: Classics.
When I want to learn a computer language, I teach myself. Certainly wouldn’t waste my undergraduate education, or tuition, on something I could learn just as well from a book.
But then I never was deluded into thinking that a college education was about getting technical training for a job.
Lojasmo
@Mnemosyne:
bicameral leadership
Could also refer to house majority and senate minority leadership.
FlipYrWhig
@Veritas: You know what’s very hard to use, learn about, and deepen your understanding of in your spare time? Computers! Very few people have ever done that.
blondie
@Veritas: Because money is the only thing that matters!
And who wouldn’t rather read their computer’s manuals than anything written by Shakespeare, Hemingway, Steinbeck, or Fitzgerald?
I’ll tell ya, pal, I think I’d rather converse with your latte-servers than with you.
Linnaeus
@Veritas:
You can, and it’s all well and good, but there are certain aspects of formal instruction that you can’t replicate as an autodidact, unless you’re incredibly talented, and that’s rare in any field.
rlrr
@Veritas:
That’s one class, not a major. You FAILED.
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
Seriously, you made that shit up. Or, again, you mistook a course title for a degree, which makes one wonder how you ever managed to make it to any of your classes in college. I can only imagine how confused people were when you told them your major was “Introduction to Computer Graphics.”
Veritas
@smintheus:
Well, if it’s not about technical training for a job, then what do you think of spoiled brats who get unmarketbale degrees and then blame it all on the “top 1%” for the fact they can’t find a job that doesn’t involve learning the phrase “Would you like 2%, or skim in your latte?”
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: Then again, the medal ceremony is kind of a mixed blessing.
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
You mean the article that says right in its very first sentence that this is a list of “America’s Most Bizarre and Politically Correct College Courses” ?
Jesus fuck, you really are a 12-year-old living in his mom’s basement if you don’t know the difference between a major and a class.
Veritas
@Mnemosyne:
Ohhh, a course and not a major! That makes it totally useful and worthwhile to offer. It’s not ridiculous at all now!
Do you really want to defend classes in Queer Musicology and “The Phallus”? It could be ONE reason why college is so overpriced right now, but nah, that’d be crazy talk to admit that.
amk
OT. willard campaigning. Is that you veritas, holding that chair ?
Lojasmo
@Veritas:
A typographical error refers to an errant keystroke. Were you trying to say you gratuated “on” college? Or you graduated “is” college? Or are, as we have already deduced, simply a goddamned nitwit?
FlipYrWhig
@Lojasmo: Most likely “bicameral leadership” means the majority and minority leaders, whips, etc., from both parties in both houses.
rlrr
@Veritas:
Show us link describing what it takes to get a degree in Queer Musicology from UCLA.
Veritas
@Mnemosyne:
Ok, you want an example of the kind of dumbass I’m talking about? And this does involve a major (“Puppetry”). Here.
What’s especially dumb is this guy could probably make a living being an elementary school art teacher in a decent suburban school district in Iowa or Michigan, but noooooooooooo, he has to live in NEW YORK CITY or nothing!
Ash Can
In other news, I’m not going to wade through all the threads here to see if anyone else has commented on this, but it looks like it’s time to say TYWP for a change.
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
A “survey” is not a major. It’s a class.
Now I know you’re a spoof, because there’s no possible way that anyone capable of turning on a computer is really this brain-dead.
smintheus
@Veritas:
I finally caught on, Veritas is somebody’s parody of a know-nothing troll.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: Personally, anytime I can get someone close enough for any kind of ceremony I’m pretty happy about it.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@smintheus: I just don’t agree. It’s way to easy to spin that as “politics as usual” or some similar BS. As soon as Obama actually says, “It’s the Republican’s fault,” the swing voter, priding her or herself on their skepticism despite being too stupid to distrust television news, sees it as a political fight that Obama started. Our nation’s propaganda outfit disguised as news channels will be happy to have dozens and dozens of “experts” on to say so.
I’m certainly not saying Obama shouldn’t fight just because the idiots in the electorate might not like it, but he really shouldn’t fight when he’s already won. There’s not enough to gain.
By just letting the Repugs do their thing, they can’t pretend it’s Obama causing the problem so easily. If there’s another big hubbub about the debt ceiling, it will have Republican hand prints all over it this time.
Veritas
@Mnemosyne:
So that it’s a class doesn’t make it ridiculous at all, right? Right?
I’m sure it’s VERY important to know about such vital skills you can get from a Queer Musicology class such as uh…uh….hmm……knowing more about the Village People?
Mnemosyne
@Veritas:
Yeah. Total spoof. Bored now.
Satanicpanic
@rlrr: I’m trying not to contribute to the thread jacking, but this is a great point. Liberal arts education is great for producing critical thinkers, which is why the right hates it so much.
Drum Circles And Weed
Best coder I ever met – by far – had a religious studies degree, with a minor in music.
rlrr
@Veritas:
universities are to get marketable degrees that will make you more money
That’s what a trade school is for. Universities are for getting an education. Attaining a marketable skill is a side effect of getting an education.
gbear
@eemom: Ummm, a guy I dated for a couple years teaches Queer Musicology. He’s lived a very full and comfortable life, thank you.
PS: I’m with you about dumping the troll.
DanielX
If I was really interested in the merits (or lack thereof) of friggin’ undergraduate college courses, I’d try to do a little primary research as opposed to depending on secondary sources. (Primary means you verify it yourself.) I wouldn’t trust a source that started with ‘Young America’s’ anything. Reminds me too much of Young Americans for Freedom, a spawning ground for shitweasels and ratfuckers of the lowest degree.
mikefromArlington
So what. S&P will prove its irrelevance again and republicans will look like children again.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
Apparently Veritas got his CS degree at a school that doesn’t require any liberal arts or electives for the degree.
I didn’t know that DeVry offered computer science degrees. Did you dual major in VCR Repair as well?
Also, I still want to hear more about those freeloading veterans you’d like to see cut off from the benefits they are owed for risking their lives for our country.
Corner Stone
I don’t know. One of the most interesting and well rounded people I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing was a doorman/bouncer at a local small pub. He tutored Chemistry in his time off to high school and college students.
Could talk about almost any subject, but not with an air of “know it all” about him. Just fun to debate, and get him wound up on stuff so days later he’d greet you at the door with some info or perspective. All in easy going fun. Just a good guy.
I don’t drink coffee but I’m sure there’s a barista or three who’s the same type.
rlrr
@Satanicpanic:
This.
Veritas
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Bull. I had to sit through gen ed dreck like Anthropology (probably the most useless course taught by the biggest freaks and Marxist I’ve ever seen).
cat
Veritas maybe an ahole with poor critical thinking skills and a love of trolling, but the retorts based on his profession, one thats contributes to much of our modern society, sink to his level and are unbecoming of you guys.
Zifnab
Veritas makes a funny!
Hahaha. Stupid poors.
PeakVT
@Mnemosyne: He’s a teen of some age, probably around the middle of the range. And that’s why I don’t understand why the adults here engage him seriously.
dead existentialist
Veritus of Kaplan University shows us his scholarly credentials by linking to an LA Times article and Reason’s blog.
Oy vey.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: I was imagining the “officer” on the receiving end of a fresh set of sharp metal pins.
toujoursdan
Yet another tread hijacked by our latest braindead troll.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@smintheus: I realize who you are arguing with, but can’t you also read the classics on your own? By your statement, is college even necessary? I figured college served two purposes:
1. Teaching
2. Prove to people that you can work your way through something that takes multiple years.
Veritas
I’m bored with this blog for now. I’ll be back on Jan. 3rd (Caucus Night).
BO_Bill
14:41
President Obama should look to American Idol winner, and all around super person, Kelly Clarkson, for guidance with regards to successfully governing in these challenging times.
Kelly was enjoying a modest degree of professional success, with a Number 41 album on Amazon.com. This is similar to Barry enjoying a modest degree of professional success fronting for various banking and Hollywood interests, as the President of the United States of America. There are lots of good benefits that come with this job, including all-you-can-eat food, lots of beer, and airplane rides. But it can get even better.
Now, Kelly Clarkson got on with a public endorsement of Ron Paul, and her album went from Number 41 to Number 14 on Amazon.com. Her specific words were:
“I love Ron Paul.”
Therefore, in order for President Barry to more effectively govern the country, and have more fun while doing it, I would suggest that he consider expressing love for Ron Paul. He could do this either from Hawaii, or he could fly back on an airplane and then do it.
Linnaeus
Sorry to contribute to continued thread drift, but the interesting thing to me about this “useful” vs. “useless” education conversation is that up until the mid-1960s (and even later in some cases) the most ardent defenders of “impractical” education – especially of a literary nature – were conservatives. They identified an emphasis on scientific & technical education as a liberal impulse that put too much emphasis on materialism and that was bad because the socialists and communists did the same thing.
They certainly wouldn’t have liked a course on queer musicology, but their complaint would have been with the content, not with the notion that music was something worth studying at the university level.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
Comment of the year!
P.S. Isn’t it funny that BOB shows up just after Veritas flounced off? Come on, DougJ, don’t be so obvious.
Djur
I like how Veritas is bragging about making “nearly six figures” as a computer programmer. That’s not really very impressive.
Linnaeus
Sorry to contribute to continued thread drift, but the interesting thing to me about this “useful” vs. “useless” education conversation is that up until the mid-1960s (and even later in some cases) the most ardent defenders of “impractical” education – especially of a literary nature – were conservatives. They identified an emphasis on scientific & technical education as a liberal impulse that put too much emphasis on materialism and that was bad because the soshul ists did the same thing.
They certainly wouldn’t have liked a course on queer musicology, but their complaint would have been with the content, not with the notion that music was something worth studying at the university level.
(sorry for the repeat, needed to get out of mod queue)
rlrr
@cat:
but the retorts based on his profession, one thats contributes to much of our modern society, sink to his level and are unbecoming of you guys.
No doubt his profession contributes much, but I doubt Veritas himself contributes much, if anything.
rlrr
@Linnaeus:
Up until after WWII (when the GI Bill kicked in), a college degree in the business world was a way to signify you came from the right kind of family.
dead existentialist
@BO_Bill: Yee Haw! Thread-jack part II.
amk
Since the thread is shot anyway, the goopers’s memorable
quotesfails of 2011 (via C&L)“Not meant to be a factual statement.” – Jon Kyl’s April press release responding to questions about his claim on the Senate floor that 90 percent of Planned Parenthood’s activities are abortion
“I put an asterisk on my support… One position that I’m concerned about shifting the cost burden to senior citizens. Seniors are saying, look, I’m not in a positon to be able to handle that. I also share that real fear, that’s why I put that asterisk out there.” — Michele Bachmann on her vote for the Ryan Medicare Budget.
“So let me say on the record, any ad which quotes what I said on Sunday is a falsehood.” – Newt Gingrich flip-flopping on Ryan Budget
“Corporations are people, my friend.” Mitt Romney at the Iowa State Fair
“Oops.” – Rick Perry not able to remember the third cabinet department he would eliminate at a GOP debate
“And when they ask me who is the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan I’m going to say, you know, I don’t know. Do you know?” – Herman Cain
“Every barrel of oil that comes out of those sands in Canada is a barrel of oil we don’t have to buy from a foreign source.” – Rick Perry
I vote perry the dumbest mofo of them all.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@smintheus: I find the “I’m a literature major which is better than engineering” to be annoying. I have yet to see a degree that took someone who couldn’t think and through some process turned him or her into a thinking person. I also know plenty of people who don’t have a CS or SE degree but do very well in software, and I know plenty of people with CS degrees who do exceptionally well. And I have seen people with and without degrees be bad software developers. The really good developers had a common trait: They worked really hard and continuously improved themselves. But the people with CS degrees almost always had something that those without the degrees did not have: An understanding of how the entire domain works together, and how the solutions to problems in different areas were actually related. Those without a dgree had good technical skills, but did not always have the foundation that goes with it.
Raven
Pied the skunk.
Satanicpanic
I know it’s fun to argue with trolls and all but a dummy who posts “puppeteers! who needs them?” at at time when one of the biggest hit movies recently starred the Muppets doesn’t help anyone hone their debate skills. It’s not like it’s not common knowledge that no one gets a job in their degree, it’s just wingnut code for being curious= bad. Can we pass around a petition to get DougJ to start trolling us again?
Kola Noscopy
@eemom:
Jesus Christ, eemom, given the sharp elbows you throw around here, not to mention the vile insults that are tossed at the slightest provocation, sometimes by the blogmaster himself, what is so fee fee-destroying about comment # 12?
Rather, it underlines what a jerk veritas is.
I’m sure amanda can handle herself just fine.
hitchhiker
My sweet new pie filter just gave me this from Veritas:
Q: What’s round, brown and full of hot steamy goodness?
A: PIE!
:) Thank you, cleek.
Satanicpanic
@amk: You left out Romney’s new gem- “I am not a Wall Street guy, classically defined, but I am not going to quibble over definitions.”
WereBear (itouch)
@Veritas: Actually, the proper grammar is “graduated from college,” you lying, miserable, worthless waste of protoplasm.
You know, there’s really no effort or talent involved in being an annoying asshole. Very limited utility in the real world. Just FYI.
rlrr
@WereBear (itouch):
no effort or talent involved inbrung an annoying asshole. Very limited utility in the real world.
It worked for George W. Bush.
A Mom Anon
@Veritas: God you are a hateful and nasty jackass.
I quit coming here because of this crap,decided that maybe people would lighten up after Christmas and then I find you here. And sooo,I am outta here again.
John,I really wish you’d get a handle on this crap. People who’d like to actually have adult discussions are lost in this mess. I know no one cares what I think,but this is why people disappear and you don’t see them anymore.
eemom
@gbear:
I sit corrected.
Having not heard the term before, I thought it might be some kind of homophobic slur and thus another ground for my petition to Cole.
FlipYrWhig
@rlrr: Kind of like the Olympics and the “amateur” ideal. It draws a line between people who do things for money and people who do things for the pure love of those things. In England at least the point of going to Oxford or Cambridge was to learn about philosophy, theology, and classics in order to become a clergyman, a politician, or a lawyer — or just to kill time hanging out with like-minded elite dilettantes for a few years. So I think you’re very right about social signaling, but I would still defend the practices that sprung up as a corollary to that social signaling, i.e., reading and absorbing it, thinking, arguing, explaining and defending what you think you know. And those activities, even though they originated as hoity-toity aristocratic time-killing, are also important to democratic/republican societies where people are called upon to deliberate what their representative institutions will do.
rlrr
It’s not like it’s not common knowledge that no one gets a job in their degree, it’s just wingnut code for being curious= bad.
Out of about a dozen classmates (we majored in physics), only two are actually working as physicists, most are in other technical fields and one became a MD.
WeeBey
It’s the timing of a symbolic vote.
214 comments and counting.
We all need to get laid.
Benjamin Franklin
Veritas serves a purpose, in a twisted fashion;
He keeps us from becoming a political Donner Party (aka self-immolating republicans)
eemom
meh, I give up.
Triassic Sands
I think almost everyone here can agree that Veritas is an immature, moronic, nasty asshole who desperately needs attention. He claims to have been banned here numerous times already, yet he keeps coming back because, apparently, his life is so meaningless and empty that the best use of his time is to publicly display what an idiot he is.
However, responding to him, while possibly an act of charity, just feeds his twisted psyche.
Ignoring the ignorant is advisable.
Evolving Deep Southerner (tense changed for accuracy)
@eemom: “Homophobic slur?” What’s this Pee Cee bullshit?
dead existentialist
@FlipYrWhig: Thank you for the awesomeness you’ve brought to this blog all week. Seriously, you’re a pleasure to read.
FlipYrWhig
@gbear: Cool, I know that book. The only reasons anyone would object to “Queer Musicology” is that (1) they don’t think there’s anything interesting to say about sexuality and gender in music, (2) they don’t think there’s anything interesting to say about sexuality and gender, (3) they don’t think there’s anything interesting to say about music. It’s really not that odd. Compare that to the descriptions of upper-level courses in math. Those make _no_ sense. If I met someone who said that he or she taught “Queer Musicology,” I’d basically know what that meant. When I met someone who said he specialized in “combinatorics,” I was totally at a loss.
The Other Chuck
Can we just make Veritas a front-pager? He dominates every fucking word of discourse on this blog anyway.
Kola Noscopy
Yeah, I don’t really get, and never have, the bitching that a commenter has “hijacked” a thread. If you don’t like what said commenter is writing, why don’t you just skip it, let alone respond to it?
What kind of insecurity drives people to engage in conversation with someone they claim they don’t want to talk to?
rlrr
@The Other Chuck:
If Veritas is such a whore for attention, he should start his own blog…
tavella
…why are people bothering to engage a troll? Who gives a shit what Veritas says? All you are doing is derailing the post.
Corner Stone
@The Other Chuck:
Couldn’t be any worse than a few other choices Cole has made.
FlipYrWhig
@dead existentialist: Uh oh, now that I know someone’s paying attention I’d better go back and delete all the posts where I squabble with Corner Stone at 4:16 AM. :P
FlipYrWhig
@tavella: Hey, the discussion of the liberal arts wasn’t all bad.
Not Sure
@Amanda in the South Bay: When your enemy is digging himself into a hole, the logical thing to do is to throw him a fresh shovel.
Legalize
Veritas reminds me of the 22 year-old 1Ls obsessed with other people’s LSAT scores.
Emma
@FlipYrWhig: Yeah. I’m skipping this whole thread, because its a damn revision of the same old one. OMG OBAMA GAVE IT UP AGAIN WAAAAAH. Then Obama gets what he wants in the long run and everyone makes believe they’ve learned something until the next time.
Besides, the dumbasses are here, and I don’t yet have a pie filter.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Emma: The little plastic castle is a surprise everytime.
Svensker
@Interrobang:
This is very good. Stealing.
Benjamin Franklin
But, you couldn’t resist lobbing a bomb before exiting?
boss bitch
So Obama is being called weak for not entering a needless fight that some ideologues started?
salvage
Yup and it works and the Democratic party seems helpless to do anything about it.
I’m not sure Obama capitulates as much as he just doesn’t seem to know what to do.
Chuck Butcher
I haven’t been in college for … well, a hell of a long time. My major was Engineering Physics, basically a jumped up BSME – lots of science and mathematics. Out of 18 hrs I had 4 hrs non-degree electives to fill so there was a pretty odd mix of lib arts, psych, archeology, and CS going on from my choices. Technical Composition was not non-degree. Considering the mix I took, I got a pretty good orientation in the disdain held for other Degrees. (held by fuckwits of the highest order)
I bang nails for a living, or I did until “somebody” crashed the market. Yes, there have been occasions when I wanted to strangle an Achitect…
Svensker
@Kola Noscopy:
Irony died a thousand deaths.
The Spy Who Loved Me
@rlrr:
Unfortunately, tell that to the current crop of highly indebted liberal arts majors that can’t find a job… like my daughter (sans the debt, thank God).
gbear
@Chuck Butcher: Can I give you a list of names for those occasions?
Amir Khalid
Returning to the nominal post topic, I’m not quite sure that these latest lamentations about Obama’s weakness in the face of Congressional Republicans is entirely justified. Congress asked him for a delay so that they could consider the matter after they come back from Christmas vacation on January 17. (Hell of a long Christmas break, though; does everyone in America get this?) It’s an entirely reasonable request, on the face of it. Obama makes a principle of respecting Congress’ turf, even in the face of the most toddlerish Republican behavior, so it’s not too surprising that he acquiesced.
One should only consider it a White House capitulation if one accepts the speculation — never confirmed at any point by the White House itself, remember — that Obama’s original announcement was intended as hardball. Hardball is not really Obama’s style. More likely, he might just remind the Republican House majority that their previous obstinacy on the debt ceiling only got them a lot of bad PR. Remember, Obama just maneuvered them into a corner politically on the payroll tax issue. He won’t have lost his nerve so quickly.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mark S.:
The piece of shit was in the advanced programming class at University of Phoenix that got their degree before finishing ‘college’. I hear that the quality of the degree makes it suitable for framing and hanging in the bathroom so that in an emergency it can be removed from the frame and used to wipe his ass.
Now that’s something to be proud of!
grandpa john
@toujoursdan: don’t give him too much credit, he had a lot of help.
Benjamin Franklin
Imagine your foe is pulverizing the wall with his forehead……What to do?
Chuck Butcher
@gbear:
Ah well, it is no longer my problem – I seriously doubt I’ll re-instate my contrators license. Somebody else can put up with the hassles and the rat-race of making fuckheads wealthy. I’ll take a wage and funnel as little up to the 0.1% as possible. That and I’m past having a sense of humor about under-paying employees for work that is statistically more dangerous than being a cop or fireman. I’ll just take the shit pay and resent it instead of paying it.
Chuck Butcher
If I were a Democratic Congressperson I’d jump at the opportunity to get time to bash the GOP over the complete and utter irresponsiblity of not paying legally accrued debts. Particularly the part conjoining the people who need with the businesses wiped out by unpaid contracts already performed or being performed. I can tell you I’d have me some fun…
agrippa
This will give the GOP an opportunity to play the same song that was so helpful to them.
Does the GOP have a flat learning curve?
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid:
…are entirely justified.
Tsk, tsk, me.
Benjamin Franklin
@Amir Khalid:
Trying to re-start the fires?
Bernard
lol, Obama is Obama and time will tell. lets see what he does. if the past is any indication, Obama will give the Republicans whatever they want.
so let’s see what and how this works out. i wonder if Obots will ever see Obama as right of Nixon? i doubt it. Nixon was the most liberal president i ever lived under, lol. yea, i’m that old. lol to say that about Nixon is something i would have thought possible.
after giving away funding (payroll tax cut) for Social Security, Obama hardly qualifies as Democrat. in this day and age, Orwell Doublespeak is the language of the day.
comparing apples and oranges is always an exercise in comparing apples and oranges.
go Ferengi GO!!
Rome Again
Well, since they admitted the two chambers are out of session, I think it’s time for some recess appointments. :P
different-church-lady
@Veritas:
Hints: how do they fucking work?
different-church-lady
I haven’t even read past #30 yet, but before I even opened the thread I was thinking, “The only way this one can get to 250 is if a whole lot of people spew a whole lot of useless bullshit that has no relevance to reality.”
Was I right?
Mike in NC
Sure glad I installed the pie filter yesterday. Yummy!
Bernard
oops,i meant to say not/ the idea of being able to say anything good about Nixon is something i would have NEVER thought possible.lol
maybe Obama will get some balls this time, after all election time is coming and he wants to show there is a supposed difference between the R’s and himself. appearance are what matters nowadays. that “evil” concept of greater/lesser evil and being ascribed as lesser of EVIL is not tolerated.
Now that is a real stretch of the imagination. Obama is just what the Republicans hoped for. but they won’t tell you that. Democrats have done themselves in. watching them turn right of left of center is a feat i wouldn’t have thought as easily done.
but the Democrats always show me how stupid and ignorant i am. underestimating their traitorous behavior/being Republican -lite/ is not for those who believe in honesty, integrity and stalwart intentions.
Making Republicans look good is something i always thought impossible. Obama and the Democrats have so consistently proved me wrong and showed me to be such an ignorant left of center, pajama clad Cheetos eating doufuss.
Republicans don’t need to run Government, just stop it. prove Government doesn’t work, and they have Obama/Reid/Schumer,et al, to help them prove it, time after time after time after time, ad infinitum.
tired of the back stabbing by now. so enjoy the Weimar Republic/American Style. quite a show.
Kola Noscopy
Eh, I don’t think you have any stupid filter installed, Mike. You just want your buds to think you do.
The alleged pie filter is for losers.
smintheus
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Theoretically you can. I taught myself some Latin before college, but Greek and Latin are so much more obscure and elusive than standard modern languages (which I’ve often self taught), and ancient literature was intentionally recherche. Also, the arcana of ancient civilization is so great, and the difficulties of working from fragmentary ancient evidence toward an understanding of those histories and cultures involve such extraordinary scholarly methods and disciplines, that it would be very hard to find your way successfully without teachers to guide you, point out the pitfalls, explain what you need to figure out and how to do that. You could read widely in modern scholarship on the ancient world, or in Greek or Latin literature, and still not manage to really understand very much of what you were encountering. It’s just one of those supremely difficult fields to be self taught in.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Bernard: I’ll welcome Orwellian doublespeak if it means people stop using “lol” two or three times a sentence. Especially when they’re not saying anything funny.
Obama might well be to the right of Nixon, depending on how to measure it. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s far, far to the left of everyone in the Republican party today.
You want a more left-wing President? Then we need a more left-wing culture. Nobody to Obama’s left can get elected President today, and even if they could Congress would prevent them from installing the socialist worker’s paradise of our dreams.
Seriously, ask yourself: if Congress had sent Obama a single-payer healthcare bill, would he have signed it? If the answer is yes, then Obama is obviously not the fucking problem, is he?
Corner Stone
@Chuck Butcher: So Chuck, I have questions for you.
There’s not a market for your experience and expertise on some smaller scale?
I ask because in the bedroom community I live in, if you get a couple recommendations on the neighborhood Yahoo! message board, a contractor can basically pick and choose the jobs they want.
Just easier to let someone else deal with the front end?
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
God damn it! After five goddam years why does the spam filter still block the word soc ial ist? Yes, I know there’s a boner pill’s name there. Take that word out of the spam filter.
Or hell, add Democrat and Republican to the filter too. As long as you’re gonna block words that will be used a hundred times a day, go whole hog.
smintheus
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Of course I never said or implied that.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Bernard: Yup, it’s all Obama’s fault. The American people themselves bear no responsibility for enabling this shit for 40 years now. Nope, we needed a Democratic hero to save us, but by golly, none showed up! That’s why it’s Obama’s fault: he didn’t single-handedly change the entire course of a depraved American culture.
We don’t get wars and shitty government because that’s what Obama wants. We get it because that’s what America wants.
So keep crying that Obama failed you. Maybe that feels better to you than the thought that we all collectively failed. Just don’t fool yourself that this can all be fixed if we just find the perfect President. The rot is way too deep to be fixed so easily.
Frankensteinbeck
@Amir Khalid:
The previous accusations weren’t justified, either. Obama has rolled the GOP time and again. They held a gun to the nation’s head twice, and he bought them off for what turned out to be poison candy. His legislative accomplishments for a first term president are amazing. He’s passed legislation conservatives have successfully blocked for a hundred years. He’s deflected two years of frenzied Republican attempts to reverse the ACA. The man is so good a negotiator that now the debt has to be raised again, and the GOP can’t stop him because he got them to give up that right last time.
The GOP has eaten all the shit sandwiches since Obama got elected, but somehow he’s a weak negotiator because he didn’t do it by screaming.
Chuck Butcher
@Corner Stone:
People are not spending money and I’ve generally taken big to small jobs. Where I live is pretty small by most standards and there is just about nothing out there. Certainly there isn’t enought to cover the costs of being in business much less making a living.
Corner Stone
@Chuck Butcher: Ok, thanks.
John - A Motley Moose
@Bernard:
Are you sure you need any help with that?
Corner Stone
Man, fucking edit window. Fuck you WP.
Chuck Butcher
@Corner Stone:
I start out somewhere around $4K in the hole with license, liability ins, and bonding alone, add the vehicles that are useless otherwise and I think you start to get the idea. That license allows for contracts of $5K the liability really escalates past there. Over the last two years a full time minimum wage job would have made multiples of my actual income. I’ve run out of reserves and can’t afford to subsidize the business anymore.
Bernard
no the Democrats always show me how low is beyond low. i always have to relearn deceit and lying and corruption and greed’s meaning time after time, at least the Democrats are consistent about bending over and screwing the Left of center.
but thanks anyway. if i need to be shown how to be deceived, i most certainly will ask you if the Democrats change/ do decide to stand up for something other than Republican ideals/beliefs.
lol. always a joy. lol.
Corner Stone
@Chuck Butcher: Before the edit window ate my add ons, I was going to say that regions/spots are obviously different. Where I live I could do freelance electrician work and set my own schedule.
Intercalation
@Frankensteinbeck: Extending the Bush tax cuts was a pretty big shit sandwich. Unless that’s something that Obama wanted to do anyway, an argument that has been made around these parts.
Corner Stone
@Intercalation: Extending the Bush Tax Cuts was a horrible deal.
Bernard
obama lied long before his election as president. so i haven’t been betrayed by Obama. Obama is a politician, i am not that desperate. lol
just seeing how much Obama is adored and can do no wrong is more than enough to not even bother wondering if Obama will stand up for Democrats who are left of center. silly rabbit! trix are for kids.
just watching how Obama and his cohorts screw America is what i am most interested in. watch all those “followers” who expect Obama or Reid to do something,anything to stop the Republican theft/hostage taking scam.
that’s the most interesting part of the whole “game”. to see people expecting otherwise is the part i wonder about. don’t these people have any touch with reality, or past behavior of their Great Muslim Kenyan socialist.
i mean, who could make this stuff up! Obama is perfect, absolutely perfect from what i gather here. the fighter against the Republican evil that single-handedly has tripped and slayed the evil Republican agenda.
such wonder filled nonsense is way beyond my ken. it is so amazing to see the endless diversionary tactics involved though. them politicians are so good at this sleight of hands bs going on.
defending the likes of Obama and Reid and his cohorts on the Republican aisle is more trouble and a total waste of time. i’d rather sit back and watch the dirt fly back and forth. and it does continuously. back and forth and forth and back. lol
the duplicity of the “leaders” and the willingness of the sheep are what amazes me. it just doesn’t end. that’s the amazing part. no great “aha” moment decrying the scam by those who have the bully pulpit. none.
just the constant: my side is better than your side. that old version of “my God is better than your God.” such good scamming and such willingness to continue on sucking up the BS.
go forth and enjoy the election of Obama. that’s the Republican plan.
after all only the Democrats can destroy Medicare and Social Security, defunding SS through the Payroll tax deduction is the first step, only a Democrat has done that. but then if Obama is Republican, then he didn’t do that, did he.
last i heard, Obama called himself a Democrat.
check out where and what the Payroll tax money goes, that Obama so graciously cut. don’t trust me, i don’t trust politicians anyway. i only pay for the taxes to deducted from my paycheck.
only the working people pay taxes anyway. who cares if “they” defund Social Security, right? Obama wouldn’t do that would he. He is a Democrat! lol.
enjoy your semantic tug of war.
different-church-lady
@Intercalation: Extending them for the top tier was the ‘meat’ in that sandwich. Extending them for the bottom four was the plan from the beginning.
John - A Motley Moose
@Bernard: Oh, I see. The Democrats are masters of “deceit and lying and corruption and greed.” And that makes the Republicans…?
Davis X. Machina
@Chuck Butcher: I have a friend whose husband has a similar background to yours, and is in a similar pickle, just as a contractor. We call him the Phi Beta Carpenter.
Knockabout
Can we revoke Zandar’s front page status NOW, or do we have to wait for more examples of why he’s the stupidest motherfucker in the room?
different-church-lady
@Knockabout: Who is this authoritative “we” you’re a member of?
Knockabout
I’m hoping Cole will show him the door after this. He is a fucking embarrassment to all of you and you all know it.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Knockabout: The door’s over there. Don’t let us keep you from leaving.
Knockabout
So you’re all okay with the biggest bonehead blogging call of the year on a blog that prides itself on fisking idiot bloggers who are full of shit and too arrogant to apologize?
Every single one of you?
Bullshit.
Mnemosyne
@Knockabout:
Yes. Yes, we are. Get over it.
different-church-lady
@Knockabout: It amazes me how seriously you take your politi-porn.
Knockabout
Once again bullshit.
This was the worst call of the year. He has no credibility left. Ask Cole how many views he’s lost since he joined. Betting it’s substantial.
As long as Zandar is here and you support him, you have no credibility as a community either.
Cain
@Veritas:
I pray that fate steps in and you find yourself making me lattes after Republicans have removed the safety net.
pluege
It’s the only thing they really, really care about.
and…
because of obama’s complicity its something republicans are really, really good at!
gnomedad
@Veritas:
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Citizen Alan
Speaking of the pie filter, when will there be one for the Android phone? I had actually grown somewhat fond of Veritas because, after all, who doesn’t love pie. But then, I tried to follow this thread and was literally startled to be reminded of what a donkey-raping shit-eater he is.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Knockabout: Right, cuz before Zander mucked it up Balloon Juice was the very epicenter of dignified and serious political discourse. The true successor to the Athenian salons. But now? Now that’s all gone.
Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye…
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Knockabout: Define substantial. How much are you willing to wager?
Knockabout
Doesn’t Zandar owe the community’s public apology for his shit call? Anyone else would get called on the carpet for this level of stupidity.
Well, not ABL. And apparently not Zandar. I wonder why that would be.
different-church-lady
@Knockabout: Dude, it’s a FUCKING BLOG, not a public water supply.
Zandar
Hey, addle-pated knock-kneed thumb-biting milquetoast, or whatever you call yourself this week.
President Obama screwed up. It happens. I hope that when the inevitable happens, he has a plan.
That plan will be to raise the debt ceiling and let the Republicans continue to alienate voters by saying he’s worse than the time them Nazzies dee-stroyed Babylon with their zombie mole people.
Amount of apology dispensed by yours truly to the likes of you is approximately equal to the amount of damns given, a quantity represented by the variable “kiss my ass.”
Exeunt Zandar, stage early New Year’s Drinking.
eemom
@Knockabout:
of all the various trolls with all of their various trolleries, you are beyond a doubt the most obnoxious. You show up here for no other purpose than to tell everyone else what to do. Exactly who the fuck do you think you are?
ETA: ah, Zandar said it so much better. : (
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
This is ever so true. Ever since Zandar joined I’ve been unable to lift my pinkie finger whilst sippng my tea and composing my eloquent contributions to the civilized discourse here.
What a disaster! Damn you Scott Beauchamp!!
Keith G
Re Knockers.
So the commenter has been given extra large double doses of the notice and interaction that he so needfully seeks. Y’all have filled him with satisfaction. Good job.
chopper
@Veritas:
you drive a volvo too? to go buy your lattes? on your way to your super wealthy ‘almost 6 figure’ job?
AA+ Bonds
Why on God’s green earth would someone consider this “clumsy”?
Have you listened to Paul Ryan? Erskine Bowles? The deficit hawks, even those masquerading as Democrats?
Isn’t this exactly what they want to happen?
AA+ Bonds
Why on God’s green earth would someone consider this “clumsy”?
Have you listened to Paul Ryan? Erskine Bowles? The deficit hawks, even those masquerading as Democrats?
Isn’t this exactly what they want to happen? To make it harder to raise the debt ceiling, every time we do it?
eemom
@Keith G:
oh sure, like YOU never fed a troll.
Svensker
@Knockabout:
Oh. My. God. Really? No credibility? As a community? This news is beyond crushing. How will we cope? I, for one as well as, I hope, speaking for the community as a whole, am totally shattered.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Svensker:
Utterly. Devastated. Heavens, I don’t know how I will be able to carry on.
Is there a couch nearby that I can fall onto in a dead faint?
Chuck Butcher
D ex M,
It could be much much worse, my home is nearly paid for and the mortgage payment is only about $50/mo and all vehicles etc are paid for other than a two credit cards that aren’t huge. At fire sale prices I have about $30K in assets for sale without hitting what I really don’t want to lose. A full time min wage job would keep things from flying totally apart. That is a huge improvement over what some people are dealing with, though it sucks sweating the heat and power.
dr. luba
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Yes. That.
Keith G
@eemom: But then, I don’t turn and complain about it.
A Humble Lurker
@Corner Stone:
We get it. You don’t like black people.
The Spy Who Loved Me
@Chuck Butcher:
Have you thought about renting out your house and moving somewhere else, if just for a little while? Hell, where I live, good contractors can pretty much name their own price. We’re trying to get a little work done on the house and finding someone, anyone, available to do it has almost been an exercise in futility. I wound up going to Lowe’s for a couple of doors (one exterior and one interior) because every recommendation for an installer the local lumberyard I tried to work with didn’t work out. Every one of them was tied up for months on other jobs, but Lowe’s was able to provide the installation. I’m even having trouble finding a painter and I’m about to give up on trying to do the bathroom renovation anytime soon.
gaz
@Mnemosyne:
If that were true Visual Basic would have never existed.
And neither would the imac.
bob h
“Whenever you are confused as to why the Republicans seem to be doing something that makes no sense or is crazy, ..”
You have to consider that their base is crazy and unhinged, and they are playing to them, even though Americans as a whole are getting more and more disapproving.