This video of Arsansas Republican Judge William Adamas, a family court Judge in Texas, viciously beating his daughter with a belt, has gone viral:
Again, like I said, and requoted earlier regarding the Cain situation- “Half of them have convinced themselves that this is just a liberal media hit job, and the rest of them think women are property, so I really don’t expect him to lose any support over this.” As he savagely beats his daughter, he screams about “beating her into submission” and the mother tells her to “take it like a woman.”
Apparently the statute of limitations has passed, so he will not be charged, but it does look like the video, released by his daughter, may end his career as a judge dealing with child abuse cases. This is just the extreme edge of an extremely anti-woman mentality and sentiment running rampant through the GOP. The list of abusive legislation the GOP has pushed is extensive, and just a couple weeks ago, Jim Demint suggested making it a crime for women to talk over the internet with a doctor. This isn’t just one person acting in a subhuman manner, it’s all a part of the same anti-woman agenda, just to differing extremes.
Bonus fact- the 16 year old daughter has cerebral palsy. And to think, people got upset when Markos called these scumbags the American Taliban.
*** Update ***
Alexandra
I can’t watch it. Too close to home.
schrodinger's cat
Villagers will be making excuses for the Republicans or saying both sides do it. Saw Brokaw on TDS, where talked about the partisanship in DC and blamed, wait for it, the internet and the blogs. Enablers that’s what they are.
Linda Featheringill
I really don’t want to watch that video.
I do wonder, though, who took the video and why. Strange.
Xecky Gilchrist
I can’t watch either. But between this monster and this guy I’m beginning to think that judges are the worst thing that could possibly happen to a kid.
schrodinger's cat
Who beats kids and then videotapes it? Do these folks live in 12th century?
Culture of Truth
I believe the daughter took the video to protect herself.
John Cole
@Linda Featheringill: The daughter took it.
And you people need to watch the video. You need to watch it, and you need to get pissed off, and you need to understand what we are dealing with.
Jay in Oregon
The second-most disgusting part of this story (besides the whole beating your daughter with a belt thing) is this:
This miserable excuse for a human being got to sit in judgment on whether or not other peoples’ kids who were brave enough to report being beaten, imprisoned, or molested were just “looking for attention” or whatever bullshit excuse the right-wing slime machine oozes out.
jibeaux
@schrodinger’s cat:
The girl set up a static camera. She said it happened frequently.
greylocks
I believe it’s Aransas, not Arkansas.
Gex
Don’t forget that their misogyny is the also the fuel for their homophobia. I don’t think that these folks actually feel like they are the awesomest and the bestest ever. I suspect alot of this denigrating of others is how they try to feel better about themselves. The problem is, being an asshole doesn’t make you feel better about yourself, so you have to keep ramping it up to get the same effect.
chris y
I understand the your woman video’d it herself with a concealed camera, because she’d been there before and knew what to expect.
jibeaux
I watched it earlier, and it totally turned my stomach. What a sick fuck.
Villago Delenda Est
These people are vile. I’m not sure if it’s proper to call them people any more.
Then I look at history, and realize that man’s worst enemy is himself, in all cases.
There are those (members of the 27%) who cheer guys like this on.
chris y
you
rngMing
If anyone has a link to the list of anti-woman legislation the GOP has been pushing, I’d be grateful to have it/share it. I have a lot of very hippy friends who are telling me “Obama same as Bush”/”Dems just as bad,” and I think they might want to just who the contrast set is…
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
So when do assholes like this ever get comeuppance? The more I see this bullshit, the more it seems like they’re now rewarded beyond all reason to codify their fucking asshattery so they can forever fuck over women and children for their greed and own brand of twisted ‘morality’. Mostly because people don’t want to see it in front of their faces, or actively cheer for it, and the people who do get mad and upset never seem to be large enough to get heard over the fuckers who demand women be essentially turned into broodmares for the state and that kids should shut up, be property, and god forbid you should be weird because then you deserve all the bullying you’re sure to get.
Special Patrol Group
Monster.
Scott
If only he lived in Michigan, he’d be able to claim a religious exemption.
Villago Delenda Est
Oh, the asshole says his daughter posted this “out of spite.”
Well, duh, asshole. You beat on someone, they’re not going to be very warm towards you.
Culture of Truth
He’s already brushed it aside by saying she was being disobedient, it was a long time ago, and she released it now because she wants a car, and also shut up.
Also There’s Stuff on You Don’t See On The Video® *
*new motto of the NYPD
Comrade Dread
Maybe I’m a bleeding heart, but I feel horrible about raising my voice to my kids.
One really has to have zero empathy or compassion or love to engage in this sort of heinous behavior.
Hunter Gathers
I think Mitt Romney just found his VP.
LittlePig
If ya’ll want to nuke the South from low earth orbit, go ahead. I’ll just stand outside and wait for the flash.
Violet
@John Cole:
I finally watched it. It’s stomach-turning. It’s so awful. That poor girl. And at the very beginning there’s another very young child. The father says, “Get Allison out of the room.” Is Allison still there in that house? What a nightmare.
The Moar You Know
Not a chance. He comes from the same shithole county that spawed this evil motherfucker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Roloff
It’s in their genes. They can’t help it. Republicanism and child abuse go together like booze and cigarettes.
Ben K.
It’s not Arkansas — it’s Aransas County. In Texas.
Cat Lady
That friggin’ cracker accent makes me want to kick him in the nuts just for opening his pie hole.
Bisquits
I watched it. Now I’m tearing up. At work. Monster
drkrick
Given the number of comments supportive of the assailant this story has attracted at mainstream outlets around the country, I’m not sure “extreme” is the right word. It seems to be a widely held belief that this was reasonable behavior o his part.
cmorenc
@John Cole:
= : ^ O This man adjudicated [i]child abuse cases[/i] ? In how many cases involving other people’s children did he bring “The beatings will continue until morale improves”. sort of mentality to bear on his decisions, even though framing his words and decisions in more politically correct language?
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Comrade Dread:
Of course, but that’s because you’re a dirty hippie. Everyone knows real Americans can never have empathy or sympathy, because that’s the road to SOSHULISM AND DESTRUCTION! We must be rock-ribbed and self-satisfied and self-interested, if we are ever to reach the great Randtopia!
serge
That video shocked the living shit out of me. I remember being hit by my parents, but never this badly, and the ritual and relatively benign corporal punishment meted out then by the Benedictine monks who taught me Latin, Greek, and the sciences.
This is sadistic punishment. It would do no good, but wouldn’t it be just to see him beaten that savagely…on tape?
Admiral_Komack
This girl is getting a beating because of computer games?
There is a special place in hell for the husband and the wife.
Steve
I can’t believe people are able to watch this sort of thing. I will not click on that video, no way.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
“Everyone knows that good Germans can never have empathy or sympathy, because that’s the road to BOLSHEVISM AND DESTRUCTION!”
Just a friendly example of a historical predecessor.
PurpleGirl
Amanda Marcotte (Pandagon) has a long post about this. Apparently, the girl released it because her parents have separated and they’re in a custody fight over a younger daughter who still lives at home. She and her mother have made peace over his treatment of her and she wants to make sure he doesn’t get custody of the other daughter or get elected again to the bench (or whatever office he’s running for now).
I cannot watch the video. The idea that he would treat his daughter that way is horrid, that she has cerebral palsy makes it even more horrid. He really needs to see some prison time and in the general population, where I believe, child abusers are not generally treated well by the other prisoners. If he wants submission and obedience, he’ll also learn about those things in prison where they control your every waking moment — time to eat, time to sleep, time to shower, time to exercise (maybe). I’ll bet he wouldn’t like it very much.
Culture of Truth
Would he still be a judge, I wonder, if he was videotaped beating a dog?
FlipYrWhig
People like child-beating. Seriously. It’s a staple of comedians’ acts — the good old days when you could beat your kids, and how we should revive them and instill some order and discipline to the world. It’s part of the same grab-bag as the War on Christmas.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Villago Delenda Est:
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes…
Allan
Nice potty mouth on that “Christian” btw.
Nom de Plume
“Take it like a woman…”.
The most ironic part about this is that if she were just two years older (she’s 16 in the video), this would be considered assault or domestic violence, and he would be in prison no questions asked.
geg6
@Linda Featheringill:
She did. She set his ass up. I love her.
Comrade Javamanphil
@schrodinger’s cat: He had the same schtick on “On Point” radio. A very polite and articulate caller pointed out all the ways the GOP has obstructed and demonized government and Brokaw responded with a dismissive chuckle and a Barney Frank reference.
amk
I rarely agree with markos but he was spot on when he called these neanderthal punks as american taliban. And this sickfuck was deciding cases on child abuse ? Amazing.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@PurpleGirl:
But he won’t face any comeuppance. Because he’s a GOPer, and a good ol’ boy. Unless he’s caught with a boy in his closet, he won’t get a sentence, he’ll get medals. And lobbying positions.
David Hunt
I’ve seriously considered watching the video, but I know from comments at Pandagon (Amanda Marcotte blagged about this a day or two ago) that I’d never be able to get through even half of it before I had to turn it off. Also, I know that the guy lives within driving distance of me. I’d never actually make that drive, but I don’t want the thought of it staying with me.
superluminar
This is just sick. I’m guessing this fucker gets a promotion though…
Short Bus Bully
No, I won’t watch it, and here’s why: I’m already pissed off. I’m already furious at these sadistic motherfuckers and I already know too well what they do day in and day out and what they want to do if society will let them. I’ll do everything in my power short of out and out homicide (and just short of that) to oppose everything they are about.
I watch that shit, however, and I cross the line into despair.
terry
His daughter has been really classy through all of this, caught a bit of an interview she and her mother (who has left this asshole and has apologized to her) did with Matt Lauer.
She’s a better human being than I am. If this were my parent, the moment they ended up enfeebled by age or circumstance, i’d drop them in the worst nursing home I could find.
Crashman
@drkrick:
I saw a bunch of sympathetic comments for this creep on an ABC news story online the other day. People saying it was no big deal, she deserved it, and kids these days should have more discipline to prevent our country from going to hell. I know they’re all crazy, but just reading those made me depressed for the rest of the day.
geg6
@Gex:
It’s the bully mentality. That’s why bullies bully. To feel better about themselves, to show everyone who’s boss, to show what big men (and women) they are. It’s also why they always pick on those who are weaker, like young women with cerebral palsy or the skinny geeky kid. FSM forbid that their victims would fight back and ever win against them. That’s why this is so delicious.
mistermix
Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Rick Perry’s first Supreme Court nominee.
Mary Jane
Minor correction, John. As greylocks @ #10 pointed out, this f*cker isn’t in Arkansas. Aransas County, Texas. Although it doesn’t really matter where, it could easily be the state I grew up in. I can’t watch either.
PurpleGirl
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I know you’re right but there’s a voice in me that says he needs to see the inside of a prison with the general population. Snowball’s chance in hell but it would be true justice.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
To bad this lowlife won’t do the decent thing and just kill himself to rid the rest of us of his odious presence. Parents their kids is disgusting enough, but this is up there with priests molesting children; as a judge Adamas was presenting himself as an upholder of morality when in truth he was just a pervert.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@geg6:
Don’t forget that in most environments where they thrive, bullies do it because they CAN. THEY have all the support systems, THEY have all the institutional advantages, THEY have the high ground, and you, their target, what the fuck do you have? Nothing, and that justifies it in the self-fulfilling way. Bullies do it because they can, and because they feel like their targets deserve it because they get the support and the targets have nothing.
Mattminus
Look at the wife’s behavior in the video. She KNOWS that she’s next. Very rarely has a yuotube video inspired in me such a visceral desire to do violence to another person.
Linda Featheringill
@geg6:
Good for her, getting that on video! Brava!
General Stuck
Then there is the ‘gay kids got it coming to them’ anti bullying bill in MI with a loophole for bullies to skate for “moral convictions’.
GOP are fucking fascists. No other way to describe them
burnspbesq
In a just world, a creative prosecutor would find a way to argue that the statute of limitation was tolled for at least two of the seven years since this happened, so this idiot could be prosecuted.
Alas, it is well known that Texas is not part of a just world.
Angela
Watched it. Lived it, spent too many years recovering, and then ten more years working with others in their recovery. The Republican party offers cover to abusers. Bob Altermeyer, from the University of Manitoba, wrote a free e-book called The Authoritarians, that explains why.
I heard this dad explain his abuse the same way my dad used too – discipline. Read the book. Just one of many reasons why the current Republican party needs to be destroyed.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@geg6: I
bullies bully because they are deeply afraid. Bullying is just massive bluff to hide weakness. That’s probably why Adamas was judge in the first place.
Hungry Joe
I saw this posted elsewhere, and some of the comments were as chilling as the video. Stuff like: He was wrong to hit her when he was angry. Hey, I got the crap beat out of me when I was a kid, too, and I turned out okay. He shouldn’t have used bad language.
Now, it’s undeniable that beating children makes them easier to control and easier to live with, for the obvious reason that children will tend to do what their parents say because they don’t want to be beaten. When we (or most of us, anyway) decided that hitting kids wasn’t a good idea, we ceded a lot of ground; being a parent is much, much harder when you don’t have corporal punishment in your tool kit. So we get smart-mouthed kids (“Why, if I’d said that to my father … !”), kids who don’t even call us “Sir” and “Ma’am.”
In return we raise a generation that hasn’t grown up in fear, that hasn’t experienced violence as the go-to option. Seems like a more than a fair tradeoff to me. But obviously not to everyone.
gnomedad
@Nom de Plume:
Yes, that phrase leaped out at me as well.
Trinity
I feel ill.
Angela
@Linda Featheringill: Yes! Good on her indeed.
Hillary Rettig
This is an example of why I, for one, love the Internet – and oppressors are terrified of it. (referring back to DougJ’s post.) I hope every effing bullying abusive parent in the world sees that video and pauses to think that they could be next.
Libby
I haven’t been able to watch it yet either. Stuff like that raises my BP to dangerous levels. But I’ve seen enough commentary to imagine what it’s like. Pretty sure, if this was a poor person, they would have been arrested for child abuse, or at least had the kids taken away by now.
Also not surprised to hear the monster has support from the “spare the rod, spoil the child” Xians who use selective Bible quotes to justify their evil ways.
geg6
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
I can honestly say that has not been my experience with bullies (though that is obviously anecdotal) and I have had a bit of experience with bullies in my time.
In my experiences with them, 100% of the time it’s been people who see themselves as inadequate in some way. Their targets are simply there to make them feel adequate. My bullies were, to a person, equal to me in almost every way (socioeconomically especially), so I can’t claim that they had any sort of privilege over me. For me, it was because I made them somehow feel inadequate just by being me. Because I am who I am and was also very athletic, I just always fought back when I had to physically and went about my life as I wished in response to the emotional and social bullying. It bothered me a lot as a teen, but I had enough friends and other interests that I got through it pretty well. I still don’t understand why they were so threatened by me, but they were and almost all of them still are. Which is really crazy as we are now 52 or 53 years old at this point.
Violet
THERE IS ANOTHER, VERY YOUNG CHILD IN THE HOUSE. Sorry for the shouting, but no one is even talking about her. The father calls her Allison at the beginning of the clip and she’s young enough to be in diapers. WHERE IS SHE? That child should be nowhere near that man.
geg6
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Yes, as I say in #70, I see it as them feeling inadequate in some way.
Holden Pattern
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
This is kinda bosh. The pop-psych “bullies are just afraid” line might be true in some cases, but mostly bullies are just raging assholes who get off on abusing other people. You can probably keep your kid from becoming an abusive bully by raising them right, but once someone is a full-grown adult and still gets off on abuse, the sympathetic “they’re just afraid” line is excusing their taste for abuse.
People always have reasons for what they do. But those reasons don’t generally excuse what they do. Bin Laden had reasons for planning and financing the 9/11 attacks (no, seriously, he had a whole written justificatin of his casus belli). Cheney abd Bush had reasons for what they did. But I won’t excuse any of them for their actions.
DZ
I got sent to prison in 1969 for being an atheist pacifist, and I spent 10 months being beaten and raped. And this piece of shit walks. Plus ca change, plus que la meme chose
handsmile
Surely each and every one of the sanctimonious sociopaths now seeking the presidential nomination of the Family Values Party must be pressed for their reaction to this tape.
It could be what is always said about Obama’s remarks on race, “a teaching moment.”
LittlePig
@Violet: The Pandagon article explains that the video was posted in an attempt to demonstrate the judge is not a good caregiver (serious understatement there), and so should not receive custody of Alison in the current custody battle between the divorcing judge and his wife.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Violet:
It was talked about: The whole reason for the reveal of this video was because the parents are separated, and the daughter wants her younger sister out of the father’s custody.
PurpleGirl
@Violet: That’s the child Adams and the mother fighting over in court. Hillary released the tape to help her mother in the custody fight.
jonas
How much does anyone want to bet that the good judge here is a proud pro-life Christian?
I think the odds are about 1 to 1.
ThresherK
And all this time I thought the Texas Judge’s Family Values Motto* was apocryphal.
(*Asking a battered wife, “What did you say to make your husband hit you?”)
Rome Again
Apparently he has a problem with her working at a video game store. My father got pissed when I told him I was considering going into hair styling. I never did go into hair styling. He should be happy she has a job, many people don’t. This man is a control freak.
My father beat me very similarly (the video is very hard to watch for someone whose been there, but while I decided not to watch it yesterday, I clicked on it today).
This problem is widespread, unfortunately.
Nom de Plume
One other thing I noticed: he turns out the lights before commencing the beatings (except when he’s presumably so overcome by rage that he forgets). What’s up with that?
Violet
@LittlePig: @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: @PurpleGirl:
Thanks. I didn’t read the Pandagon article. I just watched the video.
Where is the child now? Hopefully not with the father.
Tom
I “like” how the mom says she’s too immature for a computer right after telling her to take a beating like a grown woman.
So, to sum up: too immature to use a computer, mature enough to be brutally beaten.
Linda Featheringill
@DZ: #74
My sympathy for the violence visited upon you.
How are you doing now?
gnomedad
@Holden Pattern:
Also, “you just have to stand up to them” is a rationalization for not taking effective measures against bullying in general.
Paul in KY
@David Hunt: I made it thru about 3 1/2 mins. Didn’t need to watch anymore.
He deserves what he gets.
kindness
Saw the video when Sully linked to it the other day. Ugly shit. Definitely the party of Family Values.
Republicans = King & ruler of women’s vaginas, but ask them to pay for a new bridge and you are immediately labeled a Commie.
@Violet: The child is 7 years older and out living on her own now. She waited all this time until her mother divorced the bum.
Rome Again
@Hungry Joe:
Are you saying you support such actions? That is how it reads, and if you do, then I think you’re a heartless bastard!
Paul in KY
@Violet: She’s in no danger… as long as she keeps her damn mouth shut, cleans the house, has dinner on the table at 6 sharp, etc. etc.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Rome Again:
While I can bust him for bad formatting, he was passing along comments made on the video that were depressing. Could’ve used quotes to make it clearer though.
Villago Delenda Est
I might note that I sincerely hope that no one tries to gun this guy down.
Such a quick death would be an injustice, and far too merciful for the likes of this maggot.
JPL
According to comments on the Houston Chron., he can lose his law license and Perry could immediately remove him from his position. Perry only pretends he has a spine so he won’t get involved.
Is anyone else concerned that the Judgeass could acquire a gun and kill the wife and daughter?
daveNYC
@Rome Again: You need to reread what Hungry Joe wrote.
trollhattan
What level of court does he preside over? Are all Texas judges elected or just some? IIUC their state supreme court is the finest the developer and awhl industries can buy.
It’s hard to know, Texas being Texas, whether this incident will be filed under “F” for “feature, not bug.” If it makes him a folk hero we’ll have the answer.
Me, I can’t watch it as my daughter is nine. Violence pr0n is the worst pr0n.
Rome Again
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Then I stand corrected and I apologize to Hungry Joe.
Sorry Joe. I thought you were saying this was acceptable behavior.
JPL
Do we have any Texas lawyers commenting? If so, can Perry remove him from office? That’s what someone wrote on a comment on the Houston Chron. site.
El Tiburon
Perhaps the most grotesque portion is when, after the wife takes his belt, the man leaves to get another belt. He then returns and declares that he hasn’t gotten his fair share of swipes in.
This video is so disturbing and will stay with you long after you watch it.
At least now we can somewhat understand how these people can so easily condone torture. It’s who they are and what they do.
Hungry Joe
@Rome Again
I’m a “heartless bastard”?! Good god, I was just quoting some sick, twisted souls who said THEY supported such actions. Then I went on at some length explaining why beating children is horrific. Read my fucking post. It’s in English.
Rome Again
@Paul in KY:
and betters herself to break the glass ceiling by applying to Harvard Law School – seriously, that is how my father planned my life out.
The daughter who was abused on this tape was ridiculed by the father publicly for working at a video store. The younger daughter can’t try to become a regular person, she needs to strive for stardom of some sort to satisfy the father’s requirements that she make something special of herself to carry on his legacy.
jackmac
This brought back memories of belt beatings by my late father, who was probably also smacked around when he a kid. I can’t even recall the infractions — he sometimes kept a list — and left me fearful. My mother died when I was eight and I was placed under state supervision in an institution and didn’t live with him the last three years of his life. He died when I was 11 and In his final years had mellowed somewhat. But by that point was also a broken down alcoholic who couldn’t hold a job and was in and out of hospitals.
Fortunately, some good that came out of this. I vowed I would never, EVER hit my kids. And I never have. That doesn’t necessarily make me father of the year material, I yell at them sometimes and have plenty of other parental flaws. But at least that horrible cycle of abuse that could have been handed down to another generation has been broken.
k488
Saw this yesterday, and properly disgusted. But what surprised me is how many comments at other sites were defending some or all of the father’s actions. A simple thought-experiment: if this was an attack by an adult on an unrelated child, would there be any question of the defensibility of the action? This goes to emphasizing the sense in the tape of children as property, which is an extension of women as property (as can be readily read into the mother’s behavior in the tape), a point made in the Pandagon link.
Rome Again
@Hungry Joe:
Sorry, I apologized below. It appeared you were condoning this.
My suggestion, try using Blockquotes.
deepbluehue
I watched the whole thing and it was distressing and revolting. What was particularly chilling was when her mother told her to take her beating like a woman. I mean for crying out loud, what does taking a beating have anything to do with being a woman? What kind of world do I live in where people think this way?
rikryah
who videotaped this?
Violet
@kindness:
NO, she’s NOT. The woman who posted it was 16 when it happened and her name is Hillary. Hillary is the one who waited to post it. At the beginning of the video there is a VERY YOUNG GIRL – maybe three years or less. She’s wearing diapers. The abusive father calls her Allison.
WHERE IS ALLISON NOW? She can’t be much more than ten years of age or so, since it’s been seven years.
Violet
@rikryah:
Read through the thread or any of the linked articles. The abused 16 year old girl named Hillary taped it herself.
Rainy Day
Remember when this video of a girl being beaten by the Taliban went viral a few years ago?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu2JR8S0v-Q&feature=related
The only difference is that no one was holding the girl down in America.
These are the Pro-Life people who are beating our children. Don’t forget that.
Villago Delenda Est
@Rome Again:
No, you apologized above!
Hungry Joe obviously missed that, so his reaction is understandable.
Block quoting or other means of separating your thoughts from those of others is always a good idea though, it clarifies and helps reduce misunderstandings.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
@Hungry Joe: “being a parent is much, much harder when you don’t have corporal punishment in your tool kit.”
No its not. Its much easier. I never hit my children. If I raised my voice at all above a normal talking tone, they’d break out in tears. I hated and disrespected my parents when corporal punishment was used on me and my siblings. My kids never hated me. They respect me because I respect them.
Hungry Joe
@ Rome again: Thanks. No prob. And yeah, I forgot to block quote.
@Commenting … : Okay, I’m not being clear today. What I meant was, hell, it doesn’t take 1/8 of a second’s thought to smack a kid; in that sense, it’s “easy.” I’ve never hit my child, either, and never will.
Mark Down
I think you’re confusing power abuse with “anti-woman mentality.” Power abuse is often at the root of anti-woman behavior, but it also leads to many other kinds of abuse, like hate crimes and workplace sexual coercion (straight and gay). The one causes the other – they are not the same thing. The legislation you mention may be part of a larger effort to codify power abuse specifically aimed at women, but here’s an example of how it’s just one part of a much bigger picture.
Walker
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:
The problem here is that we treat physical abuse much more seriously than emotional abuse. I had many relationships with women who had been emotionally abused but never physically, and the effects of this were long lasting (and caused problems in the relationship).
Abuse is abuse, no matter the form. The point is to make a clear distinction between discipline and abuse, not to artificially restrict the modes of discipline.
Rome Again
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:
Me too. I became their worst nightmare. I’m sure they never spent much time in retrospect figuring that out though. Both are now deceased, and I can’t say I miss them all that much.
Troy Boyle
I can’t believe how long this goes on. They should sentence him to ten minutes alone with me. I can make him cry and crawl on the floor too. This man is a useless piece of excrement.
The Moar You Know
The barely-concealed sexual undertones of the entire incident on that tape are what make it so fucking hard to watch.
That judge is one fucked-up sadist. His wife seems to be getting off pretty hard on it as well – I know that there’s been quite a bit of elapsed time, and supposedly mom is all over that now, but boy do I have some doubts about that. Youngest child ought to be placed in a foster home.
cathyx
I bet that judge doesn’t believe in global warming either.
His daughter has cerebral palsy. He’s a sick, angry man who beats up on the helpless.
singfoom
Jesus. That video made my stomach churn. This guy should be ashamed of himself.
I got the belt once or twice myself from my father, and I deserved it, but it wasn’t a beating like this. The one to three swats I got from it got the message across.
That’s just fucking sick. And this poor excuse for a human being is a judge?
Pococurante
Please leave the “Texas” angle out of this story please. This crap goes on all over the world, every day, and odds are good you talk to someone weekly if not daily who is either victim, collaborator, and/or perpetrator.
cathyx
@Rome Again: Same here. If my parents just gave it the slightest thought, they could have realized how effective just talking to me would have worked, instead of the wooden spoon.
Judas Escargot
@Villago Delenda Est:
It would be even worse if someone tied him in a chair, poured gasoline all over him, and threw a lit cigarette on his lap, wouldn’t it? (Making sure to capture his pathetic screams for youtube, or course.)
I’d feel terrible if that happened. Bless his heart.
Nate
I feel like you have to pretty deranged to associate a man beating his handicapped daughter with conservatism or Republican policies. But maybe I’m just not fueled with enough anger and hatred to get it.
singfoom
@Nate: The man in question is a Republican judge.
John Weiss
I got halfway into that tape. I had to stop watching as it was making me cry. Gods! Who could do that to their child? I’m afraid that my day is pretty well fucked.
Nate
@singfoom: Gotcha. This clearly means that all Republicans are ok with his behavior and endorse beating women and children. As John says, this is Republican family values in action.
Thank God no person who has ever identified as a Democrat has ever done anything illegal or horrific, because that would look pretty bad for all Democrats everywhere!
Villago Delenda Est
@Nate:
Sadly, no Republican will call for his immediate removal from the bench.
Perry has the power to do that RIGHT NOW.
I don’t see any movement…
schlemizel
Hey folks – not only did this warn-n-wonderful human being sit on family cases he was known for siding with the parents on abuse charges and claiming the kids were making it all up.
Now isn’t that the shit cherry on a puss sundae?
trollhattan
@Pococurante:
“Texas” can only extricate itself if he’s immediately removed from the bench and censured. If they allow him to continue serving as a judge in any capacity and to remain on the public payroll, then we will learn something about Texas norms and values.
singfoom
@Nate: That’s a nice strawman you built there. I never made any of the claims you just built that strawman. So burn it to the ground.
You said it was deranged to link this individual with Republican policies. Since he was a judge, it’s not that hard, nor does it require hate or derangement.
That was my only point.
Cheers.
Rome Again
While abusers are not exclusively Republicans, more Republicans agree with spanking as child discipline than Democrats.
I was beaten severely with a belt by my own Republican father. I’m not sure it would be any different if he were a Democrat, just that I grew up believing his hardline stances were related to his abuse.
ETA: I was not allowed to speak unless spoken to, orders were barked at me and for many years I just tried to do as told. I was not allowed to have thoughts, I was not allowed to converse, I was not allowed to actually think for myself. I was taught to shut up and just do what was expected. It makes for a really difficult period of adjustment when one becomes an adult.
sven
@Nate:
Can you generalize about every Republican? No, of course not. Having said that, there is a very different perspective about this stuff on the right.
Here is the same story being covered by The Blaze, Glenn Beck’s online newspaper. Read the comments. If you honestly think the comments would be the same at Mother Jones you are nuts.
Roy G.
Been there, though not quite as bad, although when the belt wasn’t enough, Dad went into his shop and custom made a ‘spanking stick’ out of a 1″x4″ that he carved a handle and drilled holes up and down the spanking part, for greater effect. (Mom also beat, but her abuse was more psychological.)
Conservative Catholic family, looked great on the Christmas cards, but the abuse was all too often tearing us apart. The kids were blamed for their marital problems, and used as pawns against each other. Two people who should have never been allowed to marry, and who still carry hatred against each other almost 40 years after divorcing.
Oh, and when I got engaged to my wife, who is Arabic, Mom’s reaction was, ‘don’t you know we’re at war with those people!!??’ and when visiting her I had to beg her to turn the Glenn Beck off. I had to part ways with her for the well-being of myself and my family. Her problems were far deeper than wingnut politics, which were just a manifestation of her mental state.
Conservatism doesn’t cause this type of behavior, but it facilitates it by enforcing silence and private shame, and the overbearing need to present a false face to the world, and by ever falling back on Authoritarianism as the reason why their abuse is ‘good for you.’
Fortunately, I made it through, with the help of my beautiful wife and son, and now my goal every day is to give my son a better upbringing than I had, so that he may not know fear, anger and random violence in our house. This isn’t to say he’s never had a spanking, but he will never, ever be on the receiving end of a beating under the authoritarian lie of ‘discipline.’
Gravenstone
Saw about 30 seconds of this on Countdown last night. My first thought was that we should ship this fucker off to Singapore for a good old fashioned caning. I wonder if receiving much as he’d given would change his outlook any? Given his comments since this whole episode came to light, I highly doubt it. But if the caning were done “properly”, he’d have those scars the ret of his fucking life a a reminder of his inhumanity.
gene108
Strange thing is there are people, on other forums, who take a criticism of this guy, with “yeah, I spanked my kids…never that hard though, but I think the dad went overboard in the video…but spanking, with a belt isn’t in and of itself bad.”
People went on and on about how they were spanked and/or spanked their kids (light pat on the bottom, to drive a point home usually), but when you finally cornered them into commenting on the video they didn’t approve of how the father reacted.
Reading the Pandagon link, I really do think there’s some subliminal fear that spanking will be taken away as a means of discipline and people are supportive, in a general sense, of the William Adams because they fear their methods of parenting would be taken away from them.
Note, from what I gather these are folks with well adjusted adult kids and don’t approve of William’s behavior, but they went on and on about defending the efficacy of spanking from their personal experience, rather than condemning William Adams first.
Also, these folks are generally conservatives.
Also, too what disturbed me the most about the video was when she was crying on the floor, out of sight of the camera, William Adams came to her and started emotionally abusing her about how bad she had been. He wasn’t doing this to discipline someone for bad behavior. He was being deliberately sadistic. Parents, who want to discipline their kids, usually pull back and tone it down, if the kid starts crying. They don’t ratchet it up to 11, like this guy did.
Comrade Luke
Well, if the girl took the video she’s clearly at fault somehow.
Book it.
AxelFoley
Damn, I didn’t think white people whooped their kids.
And LMAO @ “You’re 16 years old. Take this like a woman.”
The fuck? LOL
Mike in NC
That sounds much more plausible.
cckids
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:
This, a thousand times. If you treat your children as humans, not chattel, they develop respect for themselves & others. You’d think morons like this guy would realize, “hey, I’ve been beating my kid ALL HER LIFE and she still won’t conform to my every wish”. Maybe there is another way? Ass. Hole. I’m not a Dr. Phil fan, but he has a line he throws at people that works here: “how’s that working for you?” to attempt to get them to assess their behavior & change it.
Sadly, with most who cannot tell the difference between discipline & punishment, they don’t want to learn a better way.
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
Allison is currently the subject of a custody battle between the parents, which is why the older daughter (Hillary) released this video. She’s trying to prevent her father from getting custody of Allison.
Paul in KY
@Rome Again: I think dear old dad now has a legacy.
Mary
I took a particular interest in family law while I was in school, and I cannot tell you how much it enrages me that the law basically upholds a parent’s right to do just about anything to their kid, as long as they don’t end up in the hospital.
jonas
@Nate:
Not all Republicans approve of this. But those who do approve of it are almost all conservative Republicans. I’m sure this guy runs no danger whatsoever of becoming a pariah in his little Texas town or being reprimanded, forced to retire, or otherwise sanctioned by the county Republican party he ostensibly represents on the bench. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him run for statewide office after this.
Paul in KY
@deepbluehue: I’m sure she had taken her own at some point.
Paul in KY
@Judas Escargot: Naw, that’s the easy way out. Tie him to a chair & cover him with honey & leave a trail to a fire ant nest. Now that would make a youtube video.
licensed to kill time
When I was about 7 or 8 years old, I witnessed something like this and it has remained a vivid memory ever since. I was hanging out with a neighbor kid, just sitting on the floor of his bedroom reading comic books together. Suddenly his dad burst into the room screaming and pulling his belt out and just started whaling on my friend. I can still see my friend’s skinny little arms raised over his head trying to ward off the belt. I was so shocked I just ran out of the room and took off down the block to my house.
It was so sudden and completely unprovoked, like a blitz attack. The shouting and the screams and the spitting mouth-twisted fury in his father’s face were completely outside the realm of my experience. Stuff like that just didn’t happen in my house. It really shook me to the core. I don’t remember if I ever told my parents, it was just one of those inexplicable things that some crazy parents did.
It can be a terrible thing to have absolute power over another human being.
Paul in KY
@AxelFoley: My dad could go off if you pushed him just so. He liked a switch. I would say I deserved every whooping I received. He never went off like that guy (thank God).
Edit: His dad used a razor strap. My uncle had it bronzed & mounted it over his fireplace.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
May I play amateur new-age counselor? It seems to me that Republicans are all about fear: fear of those who are not like “us”, fear of change, fear of science, etc. Such people react with violence when afraid. Rather than try to understand, learn, encompass something new, they try to destroy it. This man responded with violence (fear) when he felt his power was being threatened. Nothing good comes of such a response. I hope he faces serious consequences. Maybe (but not likely) he will learn something.
lovable liberal
The mother was negotiating throughout to minimize the beating, but she only went so far that she could still escape being beaten herself.
Who wants to meet in Aransas Co. and beat the holy fuck out of this scumbag? He’d be in favor of a little street justice himself, wouldn’t he? In theory, anyway, though in practice, street justice only applies to other people, weaker people.
Oh, and you can bet this piece of shit bully already owns a gun. He wouldn’t be able to think of himself as a real man without one.
jonas
@gene108:
Amanda’s post addressed this little canard, too. Just because a victim survives and “does fine” later does not excuse the abuse. Do we tell Holocaust survivors that Auschwitz must have done them some good because after the war, they emigrated to New York or Israel and became successful business people?
People sometimes turn out ok *in spite* of trauma they’ve experienced. Not *because* of it.
AxelFoley
@Paul in KY:
I hear ya, Paul. My pops used to use whoop my arse, too, but not to that extent. Couple of hits with the belt and sent to the room with no TV or anything I liked to do. ‘Course, by the time I was ten, that shit was over.
This dude in the video seemed like he got off on it. And like someone said up thread, the sexual connotations can’t be missed. I mean, “Bend over!”? WTF?
Paul in KY
@lovable liberal: Then don’t take a fist to a gun fight.
Paul in KY
@AxelFoley: There are definitely sexual conotations, IMO. By the time you are 16 or 14 or whatever, corporal punishment is supposed to cease (especially with a girl). I probably got my last whupping at age 13.
As lovable liberal said, the wife is trying to mitigate it somewhat (probably thinking she’s gonna get her own for not monitoring the girl).
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Hey, Licensed to Kill Time #145… I had a similar experience; my neighborhood friends (a set of brothers) were semi-regularly whipped with a leather belt by their father. I’d gotten one or two three-swat hand spankings which probably more frightened than hurt me, so what I witnessed at my friends’ house was very frightening. That was the 60’s, early 70’s. I also recall the a nun tying a little girl to a chair dragged to the middle of the classroom. Wrapped in jump ropes and her mouth taped shut, the tears streamed out her eyes while the rest of us were forced to stare at her. (Her crime had been tattling once too often on a classsmate, so — very young children that we were — we were half-gratified, half-sympathetic. After a few minutes of gazing helplessly at her, I think we all felt nothing but sympathy for her and fear of our stewards. That was the worst of the abuse by nuns that I observed. I know I’m going off-topic here with my recollection of long-ago Catholic schools days. My apologies.
Comrade Mary
There’s a massive thread over at Metafilter about this.
http://www.metafilter.com/109057/Judge-William-Adams-beat-his-16year-old-daughter-with-a-belt-for-downloading-music-and-computer-games
Rome Again
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
Robert Altemeyer in the Authoritarians says the same (I saw someone else mention this book this morning, everyone should read it if they haven’t yet. It’s available free online and doesn’t take long to read. Very informative.)
Rome Again
@lovable liberal:
Inciting violence on this blog is unacceptable. If you must do it, go somewhere else.
Djur
I’ll never understand why people think it’s OK to strike a child when you would never strike an adult for the same thing. Once my ex ate some brownies that I had been saving for a party, even though I had a note saying “don’t eat these” on them. I know people who were smacked as a kid for less. I suspect that if I had done the same to my ex I would have been (rightly) dragged off to jail.
I mean, it used to be somewhat tolerated to resort to physical violence to solve disputes among adults. It isn’t anymore — it’s assault. Why doesn’t this apply to children, who can’t even fight back?
gelfling545
@Rome Again: In all my years of teaching, I found that the kind who got “beatings” (not a random smack on the butt)were by far the most difficult children to deal with, at least in part because there could be no parental support because who would call in a parent & expose a child to that? They didn’t become more respectful, etc; they became less so.
gelfling545
@lovable liberal: When I first heard “take it like a woman” I was horrified but then I started to wonder if the mother was trying to say, in a way that might not be noticed by the abuser, “Don’t let the bastard break you.”
kindness
@Violet: I’m not going to argue with you. I’ve seen a few web sites that list the girl in the video getting beaten as being 23 now. that’s 7 years.
lovable liberal
@gelfling545: I thought she was saying, “Take it like me.”
Rome Again
@gelfling545:
My parents treatment of me was unknown, and was to the point that I was called into a meeting with a school psychologist who pitted my parents against me during a talk session and took their side. When I brought up the alcoholism and abuse in my home, the school psychologist decided I was lying and of course my parents agreed. That meeting was brought up to me by my mother for years afterwards. I’m a very gentle person, but I definitely rebelled against my parents after the crap they pulled on me.
ETA: All this happened in the 70’s when I had never heard of child protective services. There was no such thing at that point. If I was going to leave the home, it would be to a very strict girls reform school which my father threatened me with once.
staci
@Rome Again:
I’m not sure he was saying he agreed with the punishment, but I do agree with him. We have ceded so much in the raising of our kids. I would hate to think what would have happened to my mother raising us on the south side of Chicago in the 60s. She would beat the crap outta ya, but she would (and still will) also go to the wall for you. Right or wrong, my mother NEVER had the problems some other parents had with their children.
kay
@Violet:
I don’t know if this will help, Violet, but in this county there would be an investigation regarding the younger child. The civil custody case would be stayed and a children’s services agency would do an investigation, and if it’s warranted, the prosecutor would file a complaint to have the younger child adjudicated neglected or dependent. That takes it out of divorce court and into juvenile court; a state proceeding.
The basis for state intervention would be two-fold: children are damaged by abuse in the home if they witness it (or are aware of it). Further, the father is clearly unfit, but the mother has two problems. She participated (directly) and she also “failed to protect”. The “duty to protect” idea is somewhat controversial (it’s hard to determine where it begins and ends) but there’s case law on it here, although no statute (yet).
The question becomes is the younger child neglected or dependent (requiring state intervention) because one parent is or was abusive and the other parent (mother, here) failed to protect a child who was in her care.
It doesn’t matter why the mother didn’t protect (here, I would assume she would say because she herself was abused), because we’re determining the status of the child. We’re adjudicating the child neglected or dependent, and letting the state step in.
staci
@gelfling545:
There is also the difference between beating somebody out of anger because you have no better way to handle your children and using corporal punishment as a form of discipline. Every kid I grew up with got smashed at one point or another during their formative years, but they also understood beyond a shadow of a doubt that same parent loved them and in any given situation would protect them to the death. For me, I never saw it as my mother being this angry person taking her frustrations out on me. Most of the time, I knew when I had crossed the line, and I could anticipate the punishment for it. I never associated the whipping with a lack of love or any subliminal hate – it was discipline, simply discipline in the way that my mother knew was an effective way of getting her point across.
Rome Again
@staci:
Hitting your kids does NOT solve problems. It teaches them that you are NOT someone to love and trust. Actually, I didn’t love and trust them, nor should I have as they didn’t love or trust me either.
You are wrong.
My parents would NEVER go to the wall for me. Lucky you.
staci
@Rome Again:
Knocking the crap out of your kids for every infraction will not solve problems, but I disagree with the whole connection between whipping, love and trust. I wouldn’t trade my upbringing for anything in the world, and believe me, I’ve felt the sting of a belt on my butt lots of times. As a single parent, I raised my kids the same way and both are socially well adjusted, educated and employed with the full understanding that I would kill a brick, choke a stick about them. They’re my babies, and if I didn’t raise them at home, society surely would have raised them in the streets.
Judas Escargot
@Paul in KY:
True, but youtube still has that 15 minute time limit.
Time lapse would be interesting…
My Truth Hurts
For the GOP it’s all about power, submission and punishment. Nothing else matters.
I am not a parent but the idea of “spanking” a 16 year old (which for the judge actually means whipping with a belt) is ridiculous. It’s way too late in that child’s development for “spanking”. Secondly she is physically disabled and unable to defend herself, so that makes him a complete monster. Thirdly her mother participates, clearly out of fear, but she is just as to blame as her husband. They are the adults. They have the power. They have the authority. They also have anger and control issues. What horrible, horrible human beings.
This guy shows you the home life of a political party that wages a war on women, the poor, the weak, the infirm and the old. FUCK THESE PEOPLE.
Yes Nate you can paint the whole GOP with this one brush, because authoritarian sadistic control freaks are what makes up the GOP. Just because you “don’t see it” does not mean it isn’t true.
Rome Again
@staci:
Sorry Staci, no sale. Not all parents are as loving and kind as you are. My parents were not loving and kind people. They were control freaks who only cared about their investments and success.
The lessons that I learned at my parents treatment were that I was worthless and unimportant. You run the risk of allowing other children to suffer through that when you say capital punishment is necessary.
I wish child protective services existed when I was a child, I would have been better off. There was physical, sexual and verbal abuse in my home, as well as severe alcoholism. The chance that I might have found improved conditions are higher than if I had stayed in the home. I would have lost the ability to live in a luxurious home, but I would have traded that easily for the chance to be considered a real human being.
The Spy Who Loved Me
I watched it a couple of days ago. It make me sick. It makes me even sicker that this sadist is now out of reach of the law. One can only hope that the judicial review will remove him from the bench.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Thanks for the book tip, Rome Again #155; I’ll look it up. I remember my parents once or twice muttering about convents (all-girl reform schools) when my sisters (three) were especially acting up. I was actually a pretty dutiful son in a home with a very strong matriarchal influence.
Rome Again
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
I wasn’t catholic and my parents weren’t church going. The reform school they had in mind was for severely undisciplined wayward girls. Hell would be a similar fate.
ETA: I say my parents weren’t church going, we were actually a masonic family. My parents and grandparents were all in masonic organizations and they even had organization for us kids. I was in Job’s Daughters. It was not really religious. My father joined for the business contacts (as did my 33rd degree Master Mason grandfather).
Nate
@jonas: What do you mean he won’t be reprimanded? He’s already been suspended and had all his cases re-assigned pending an investigation. Now, if he isn’t ultimately removed from his position, I’ll have some sympathy for your argument, but as of right now action IS being taken.
staci
@Rome Again:
I’m really sorry you had a childhood that sucked so much. I cannot impose the way I was raised (or the way I raised my children) upon folks as the right way to raise a kid, but for my family it worked. Even if Child Protective Services existed in the 60s and 70s, neither I nor my brothers would have even thought of calling them. While raising my kids in the 90s, I told them if you call 9-1-1 tell them to bring the coroner too because by the time they get here your little butt will be dead for bringing people into my house to tell me how to raise them. I’ve gladly gone without many times to do the right thing by my children. Kids see everything, so I’m sure they would have never thought I was just being a bully playing the “mommy with the belt” card. I think one of the downfalls of the government getting into people’s home has resulted in kids with no repect for any authority. Again, I would imagine some kids really needed somebody to intervene on their behalf, but fortunately, I don’t know any of those situations personally.
staci
I should also add, Rome, I have never hit my kids in the face, punched them or cursed them – NEVER. For me, the ultimate bad parent is not just the one that hits, it’s the one that says all of that stuff your parent should never say to you – you’re stupid, you’re ugly, you’re a loser, etc. For me, those stick with a kid a lot longer than the sting of the belt.
Rome Again
@staci:
Well, I can tell you those kids exist, and because they do, you shouldn’t try to make the world fit YOUR mold when your mold isn’t a problem. You should have the desire to want to see children who ARE in trouble find the help they need.
I say this as a mother who had CPS remove my child because they were overzealous. I’ve had both situations. I was a severely battered wife who took a knife to my ex-husband when he went after my three year old daughter to beat her (mid 80’s, Florida, they had a lot of misconduct cited against Florida DCPS during that time). I asked DCPS to take care of my child when I went to get treatment because I didn’t trust my own mother to care for her after I caught my mother feeding my daughter vodka and orange juice. The worker did a poor job on the case. I’ve seen both sides of this. While I agree that the system erred in my situation, that doesn’t make me want to see it go away. The system, if it’s being misused, should be reformed but not scrapped.
Rome Again
@staci:
The words didn’t cause me to seek an abusive husband. Words made me feel pain for a short time. Physical abuse confused my sense of trust and as a result I ended up choosing a mate who was abusive. I would rather have the words.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
“I think one of the downfalls of the government getting into people’s home has resulted in kids with no repect for any authority. ”
1,676 kids died last year in the U.S. from neglect and abuse. They didn’t get to grow up, so we’ll never know if they would have respected authority.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf
I remember having a social worker I knew tell me how she quit her work in child protection because of nightmares about the kids where they knew the children were being abused but couldn’t, because of the slyness of the abusers, get enough evidence to get the kids out of danger. So she quit child protection, and went into other work.
Just another interfering gubmint worker, I guess.
JSpencer
I hope the release of the video has showered the “judge” with the misery he so richly deserves.
Rome Again
I should also note the treatment was MY idea. I stabbed someone and felt strange about it and felt I needed counseling. I went into a hospital to seek psychological help of my own volition. What happened there is another mindblowing story which has nothing to do with the abuse itself. Let’s just say I didn’t get the treatment I was seeking. But, I went to this hospital because I felt guilty about what I had done (there were no legal charges due to the stabbing and my ex lived, I took him to a hospital). I sought out help. I asked DCPS to get involved. I was trying to stop my child from living through the same kind of hell I grew up in and I chose my mate wrongly based on abuse being a familiar in my home. I’ve done a lot of counseling and study on this. Basically the kind of people who abuse are the kind of people I was attracted to. I wasn’t attracted to abuse, but I was attracted to the personalities of those who do. It wasn’t conscious. It just felt right and it was not right at all. This is the kind of pattern children in abusive homes learn and live. Some grow up to become abusers themselves, some don’t. Whether they abuse or not, many attract more abusers that end up being added into their lives in the future.
ETA: this is not the first time I’ve told this story on this blog. By my count, over the last six years, this is the third telling.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Hi, Rome Again #180… first time I’ve encountered your story. I suspect you were ultimately copying what you saw at home. (Again, I’ve got on my very amateur psychologist hat). You saw your mother abused and probably subconciously assumed that this was the typical husband-wife dynamic. I am fortunate that my own father did NOT revert to the sort of child-rearing tactics that were practiced on him in his youth — yikes! Perhaps you also learned, what the hell, physical violence works for him, maybe I’ll try it, too (hence the stabbing). We are told that children who are abused end up in abusive homes and/or abuse their own significant others. If the only tool you see used is a hammer, that’s probably what you end up using yourself.
I wish you continued growth and peace.
Thymezone
@staci:
Just saw the thread. Speaking as one who was beaten with a belt, clobbered with various houshold objects, had knives thrown at him, and sent to the hospital for repairs when the attacks drew blood … anyone who claims that physical beatings are a rational, moral or useful way to treat kids is full of shit, is in need of psychological help, and should have any children in the house taken away until there is agreement that such treatment will not be repeated under any circumstances.
There’s no room for debate on this. Sorry. If anyone here believes otherwise, take the argument somewhere else. I’ll even go so far as to petition the blogowners to block such arguments as being an encitement to violence and possible criminal activity and hold them accountable if they allow that kind of crap to be advanced here.
staci
@Herbal Infusion Bagger:
I NEVER said there wasn’t a need for protection for some kids. What I said was in my family, and in many others that I’m familiar with, it wasn’t abuse because you got your butt whipped. My whole foray into this post was to present an alternate viewpoint. I didn’t ask anybody to co-sign what I was saying. I wasn’t promoting my “mold” as the right way to raise a kid. As a matter of fact, I stated as much earlier.
I would add though, that I find it interesting that it took this young woman seven years to speak out. If she were so concerned with the welfare of her little sister, she should have said something a lot sooner – like when the kid was still little. Otherwise, why let her live with this abuse for seven years? Unless what her dad says is true in that she’s angry over a car, there is zero value in her presenting this video now of a situation that happened many years ago.
staci
@Thymezone:
Good grief, one would think I was promoting a beating per day for every kid born after 1900. If I had been a victim of somebody throwing objects at me and truly trying to hurt me, I may have the same outlook as you have, but that was not my reality. I still say there is a line between discipline and abuse. What some of you folks are describing is abuse – plain and simple – and I haven’t and never will okay that behavior. With all the conversation, why am I the only one that will accept that there is more than one way to discipline a child and those other ways don’t include abuse. I am perfectly willing to acknowledge your reality. Why are you so set on denying mine?
Thymezone
@staci:
Totally disaagree. Completely wrong. Kids cannot be held responsible for the abusive and dysfunctional dynamics in an abusive household. Kids do not have the capacity to process and understand what is happening in such a household, and will not make rational choices and will not respond like rational adults, and cannot be held to any such standard. I can tell you from personal experience that kids will block out the realities of such experiences … for decades … totally expunge them from memory until time or therapy or some other factor brings out the past experiences and allows resolution.
As for value of presenting the video .. it’s obvious. It will educate others and possibly prevent or mitigate abuse that is otherwise bound to happen to others. Exposure of this type is a fine tool for shaming people or shocking people into taking action or changing behavior. I hope we see more of it. It doesn’t matter whether the abuse happened yesterday or twenty years ago.
Rome Again
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
Actually, while I suspect my mother was both physically and sexually abused as a child, my father didn’t abuse her. My father used the “discipline” line when he abused me. It was only about keeping children in line, maintaining control over the child.
My mother on the other hand drank very heavily for 40 years which in the end killed her (she died of cirrhosis of the liver after drinking a one and three quarter liter bottle of vodka every day for more than 40 years). and only recently I’ve come to discover that she was also sexually abusing me, albeit not in an outright manner – she participated in giving me enemas in a cyclical fashion and dressing in ways that I was subjected to her not wearing underwear often in my presence while she walked around in nightgowns. She was verbally nasty but didn’t often hit me. I don’t drink very often and when I do I self monitor. I don’t sexually abuse, but I do end up seeking out physical abusers which I have to be very careful of adding into my life. My father’s abuse effected me more. My mother’s father (my maternal grandfather, the 33rd degree Master Mason) forced me to perform oral sex on him when I was about three years old. This is why I believe my mother ended up abusing me sexually. I believe he abused her also.
Rome Again
@staci:
The mother was in the home, and while the video shows the mother also being abusive, she may have also had a bit of power over keeping the father from being abusive more often. The girl apparently has forgiven her mother for the abuse. Perhaps they are concerned about the abuse that might occur without the mother in the home? The wife has left the husband and the husband currently as custody. Sounds like you are being very judgmental. I don’t understand how you can make decisions based on no facts whatsoever. You are in no position to decide why the girl released this video now.
Thymezone
@staci:
I made no assertion about anything you might or might not have done. Let me warn you in advance, don’t put words in my mouth, because I won’t tolerate it. I said exactly what I meant, and the post is still there. If a shoe fits, wear it. If not, then the shoe is for somebody else. However, your statement that “there is more than one way to discipline a child” appears to be condonation of abuse. If it is, it’s wrong. If it isn’t, then you need to clear that up.
You are damned right that there is a line between discipline and abuse. And parents don’t get to decide where that line is. Society does. And that line has been moved considerably since we were kids, and rightly so.
Thymezone
@staci:
You are a word twister. I said nothing that could even remotely be considered “denying your reality.” I am denying the moral and rational basis for your stated views. Why you hold them is your business, I could care less. They’re wrong unless I am missing something, which I doubt is the case. But if you are not arguing that it’s okay to beat a kid with a belt, just say so, and clear it up. Or is your act a troll? Clarity solves a lot of problems.
El Cid
@staci: When you live in a household where the parent might escalate from a cruel and taunting belt-whipping to a truly threatening beating, and you’re young and vulnerable and afraid and no one else around seems like they’d be able or willing to help, you do what you can.
On the plus side, I knew people who as kids hid and one day when their abusive father was drunk, they beat the ever-living shit out of him, and he never beat them up again. A hideously risky strategy, but this time it worked.
Rome Again
@Thymezone:
Bravo!
tony
I am sorry for this , but all I have been able to think since seeing this is that man needs to be pulled from his house, torn literally limb from limb and the pieces thrown in the sewer to feed the rat.
Sorry again , but even that is too good for him.
Where are the mobs to give us the vigilante justice we all need at this point?
My first -very first thought was “how far is it to this town?”
He is lucky I live far from there , but my curse is not limited by distance.
Unless God protects him from my wrath, he will die a horrible death within the month.
So be it .
Amen
Thymezone
@tony:
I appreciate the passion, but violence begets violence. I have no desire to physically punish any abusers … just to stop them, preferably by taking away the defenseless targets of their abuse. Creating the possibility of that is something that spreads with education, and the subject video is going to go a long way to educate people. Abuse is just ugly, and when it is captured, it looks ugly, there is no sugar-coating it.
We’ve moved toward a world, at least in Western countries, where kids and women are no longer considered fair game for abuse. That’s a huge shift. Except in self defense of a proximate threat, fighting violence with violence is not likely to do much good, in my opinion. Beating up a drunk, for example, is not a very effective way to teach him anything. He might not even remember what really happened, later.
staci
@Thymezone:
You gotta love how folks throws out the troll tag when they disagree with somebody else.
Like you, sir, I will not allow you to put words in my mouth either. I didn’t come on here to pick a fight, I stated an opinion on corporal punishment IN MY FAMILY and now I’m being taken to task because you don’t agree with what I said? I won’t argue with you, sir, because you disagree with my opinion – and I won’t call you a troll either. You have an opinion and I’m fully okay with you standing by your opinion. I ask for the same respect without implying that I need psychological help because I see things differently that you do.
Here’s your clarity – some of us were raised with corporal punishment and don’t think we’ve been negatively affected, still love our parents and haven’t abused our children. Some others had abuse going on in their homes and somebody should have stepped in on their behalf. Generally speaking, there is always more than one way to do something and it doesn’t necessarily make one way better or worse than the other, just different.
Thymezone
I throw out a troll tag when I doubt the sincerity of a poster. You are walking that line. I simply don’t believe that anyone who has paid attention for the last fifty years would argue that it might be okay to beat kids with a belt. And as I said, if that is not what you are arguing, then CLEAR IT UP and say so, like this: “It’s wrong to beat kids, period.” Because it is wrong, and no going on and on about your family is going to change that. If your family experience taught you otherwise, then your experience taught you wrong. If not, then say that, and the argument is over. Pretty simple.
Thymezone
Whether you are affected one way or the other is between you and your therapist. But whether it validates a position that it is generally okay to beat kids is not arguable: It does not validate such a position, and if you are advancing such a position, then you are wrong. Period, end of story.
Thymezone
You might not be a troll, staci. You could just be a damned fool. I have no problem giving you the benefit of the doubt and arguing that you are a damned fool.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@staci:
So to you, telling your kids “If you call the police for help then I’ll kill you!” is good for them?
Glad I’m not your kid because I would have grown up hating your fucking guts.
Mark D
It’s simple: If beating kids actually worked, then every parent of an Aspie kid (myself included) would try it. Dear fucking lord we would try it, just to see if it’d get our kids to “get it.”
But study after study after study have proven that all hitting a kid does is show them that the best way to solve your problems, and vent your anger, is through violence. It starts a disgusting and dangerous cycle that has already screwed up — or claimed the — lives of millions of children.
Thymezone
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
One of several reasons that I think staci might be a troll. The arguments are just idiotic .. but even if he/she believes them, most sincere people would not go out in public and argue a position like that. The whole idea of Child Protective Services is based on the idea that we, society, do in fact have, and will assert, our right to tell people how to raise their kids, when that is necessary. That ship sailed a long time ago, we are not re-litigating that societal prerogative at this late date.
TEL
@staci: I don’t normally get involved in someone else’s online battles, but I find it very interesting that this is a post about a father severely beating his 16 year old daughter (with video!), and the only thing you have done in your numerous comments is try to justify your own upbringing, and that of your children. Guess what – none of the other commenters know or care how you and your family were raised. You opened the door on that by volunteering information defending what you call “corporeal punishment” in a post about severe child abuse, NOT ONCE acknowledging the abuse that the post was about, except to say that you think the daughter did something wrong by releasing the video (if I understood that post correctly).
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@staci:
You are an abusive scumbag. If you think threatening to fucking murder your children is in any way a loving thing to do, you’re sick in the head.
What makes you so goddam sure that your children are ok with what you did? If my parents acted as you claim to have acted, I’d be spending my adulthood making their lives as miserable as I possibly could. Of course, that’s in part because I had good parents who taught me not to take that kind of shit off of anyone. They taught me that people who hurt me are bad people and I shouldn’t put up with it.
Stop defending abuse, you piece of shit.
Thymezone
This isn’t a very funny thread, but “corporeal punishment” is pretty funny. That extra “e” kind of shifts the meaning of the thing. In case we thought that the debate was between corporeal, as opposed to spiritual, punishment. Spiritual punishment is what Balloon-Juice provides so well.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Thymezone: I’d guess that corporal and corporeal are etymologically linked.
But you know what words aren’t etymologically linked? Love and murder. Nor love and beating. And definitely not love and abuse.
Hitting your child is never an act of love.
Rome Again
@staci:
Unless DCFS is at your house wanting to take away your kids, who gives a fuck? There are children out there that are dying, are we supposed to just not give them any attention because it might mess up YOUR perfect family? Jesus Christ!
staci
@TEL:
Okay, one last time. I made an observation because I thought that forums were for differing opinions. I didn’t know I had to be what some of you folks consider politically correct in order to be able to post on this blog. It was not my intention to either defend the father, defend the beating or defend how I was raised. If everybody has to agree on an opinion for it to be valid, then state that in the beginning and anybody who disagrees will stay away.
You know what’s idiotic (and very teabaggery) is to discount another’s opinion because it doesn’t agree with your own. I haven’t said one mean thing to either of you three people, yet you come back with the most antagonistic language.
@odie – I told them I would bury them in the backyard too. Fortunately, my kids weren’t as literal as some of you folks and had no fear of being killed, maimed, mutilated or deformed. It would really crack them up to read what’s going on in here today.
Rome Again
@Thymezone:
Stop the flagellation! :P
Rome Again
@staci:
All opinions are welcome to be discussed, that doesn’t mean we have to agree with them. Who the hell are you, Wolf Blitzer?
Thymezone
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Agreed.
staci
Rome – you need a therapist. I hope you’re still making your visits.
Who gives a fuck – obviously you (and Tel and thymezone) since this is your fourth or fifth post to me. I’ll leave this particular echo chamber to those of you who, in all of your genius, has it all figured out and are convinced that in your unhearalded wisdom you are forever correct.
Rome Again
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
My father used to use that line “this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you” and I never understood it. If it hurts him to abuse then why not stop? You are correct.
staci
Do you not see the irony in your making this statement? HA-HA-HA.
Rome Again
@staci:
Staci, you are telling us that because you think your children turned out okay there should be no monitoring for abuse in families. You’re dead wrong.
Fuck YOU!
Rome Again
@staci:
Apparently it’s an inside Rightwinger’s kind of joke. There is no irony. You can’t expect us to agree with everything people post.
The irony is in your own head.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@staci:
Let me guess, your kids call you “Mommy Dearest”, right?
You are one disturbed unit. Did you also tell them (while beating their asses); “I brought you in to this world and I can take you out of it?”
It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if you did. Not a bit.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@staci: “People get hurt when they are beaten” isn’t a politically correct statement, it’s a statement of the bloody obvious.
By the way, idiot, nobody is stopping you from stating your crack-brained opinion here. On the same token, nobody is stopping me from stating my opinion that you are an evil scum smear. Nobody is prevented from saying whatever they want about me, either. That’s how freedom of speech works.
What, did you expect that you’d saunter into a thread about child abuse, with your tales about how you hit your kids and threatened to kill them if they ever went to the authorities about it, and the response would be “Ho hum, I’d register my disagreement with this but I don’t want to sound politically correct or infringe her freedom of speech.”
I hear that stupid argument about political correctness all the damn time. Apparently, when someone complains about what you say, it’s political correctness run amuck. But, when you complain about that person’s complaint, it’s not trying to silence someone with PC at all. How convenient for you.
Rome Again
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Touche’ ;)
Rightwinger wants special treatment, why am I not surprised?
Rome Again
So, let’s break down Staci’s statement for a minute:
The world according to Staci:
1. Abuse occurs (fact, since the abuse is on the video)
2. Staci states that she hits her kids but it’s not abuse
3. Therefore, according to Staci, nobody should be worried about abuse.
Does that about cover it?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Rome Again:
There ya go.
Thymezone
@staci:
You really could cut and paste a more elegant retreat than that tired one. Your troll failed completely, and you are arguing a position that is basically against the law in about 30 states and most Western countries. But really, try to appear above it all when you slink out the door.
Thymezone
@staci:
That’s right, calling the beating of kids “abuse” is now considered “political correctness?” The more you post, the bigger an ass you make of yourself. You are in farce territory now. Seriously. Nice job. You lasted about an hour.
Rome Again
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Yes, your improvement is much appreciated. Thanks! :)
AxelFoley
Well, this thread went to hell rather quickly.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Rome Again:
Just the facts ma’am. :)
I’m an obliging person, if someone comes in with a “KICK ME!” sign on their forehead well then I’m more than happy to do so.
It’s just how I am.
@AxelFoley:
They usually do when crazy people show up. When they see their crazy challenged, they HAVE to amp it up to prove their point.
Problem is that it usually destroys it (see Staci above about murdering her kids).
slag
@Roy G.:
Yes. Indeed.
And good for you for being able to claw your way out and find a better way. It appears that others here were far less capable than you in that respect.
deepbluehue
@Paul in KY:
That’s what I thought, too.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
BTW, I know it’s way late in the game, but can we get a fix on the man’s name in the top post?
You’re slandering poor Bill Adama here. It’s William Adams who is the scumbag abuser, not Adamas.
So say we all.
Patrick Phelan
I never got the diatribes against “political correctness”. If it’s politically correct not to use horrible racial or sexual slurs and to point out that beating kids is wrong, then… well, that says to me that political correctness is a good thing. That’s how I’ve lived my life since and it’s worked pretty well for me!
Roy G
@slag
Thank you. I was fortunate to make it, and my heart bleeds for those who don’t, and the poor kids who have to suffer alone.
Also, seeing a therapist I could trust was key. This is another flaw in the conservative mind, that they tend to ‘not believe’ in therapy, and resist it to the end.
TEL
@Thymezone: Heh, I realized I did that typo too late to correct it. “Corporeal” indeed.
Nancy Irving
@Mattminus: At first sight you’re horrified at the mother’s taking part, but if you can stand to view it twice you can argue that she’s trying to moderate the father’s behavior. She takes the strap from him and though she orders the girl to turn over, she’s not screaming and cursing like the father. She “talks tough” (“Take it like a woman!”) but I think she is really anxious that the daughter *should* turn over, because a blow to her rear end will be much less painful and damaging than blows to her front or legs. (The father is threatening to whip her face!) And the mother only strikes her once, and then says “THANK YOU” very loudly–an attempt to declare that the event is over, I think. She doesn’t want to give the strap back to the father–you can actually hear the sick f*ck shouting at her to give him the strap back, and when she doesn’t, he says that he’s going to go get another, bigger strap (!); and considering how out of control the father was, it is more than possible that the mother wanted to present herself to the father as participating equally in the outrage, while attempting to save the daughter as much as she can.
Perhaps I am biased by knowing that the daughter has forgiven the mother but not the father, though.
Nancy Irving
@Rome Again: You have to wonder if the daughter’s cerebral palsy was an issue. Maybe he resented her for not being the “perfect” child his narcissism thought he deserved.
Either that, or maybe he just gets his rocks off beating up teenage girls. He certainly sounded “excited,” if you know what I mean. Some enterprising reporter should look into whether he hires prostitutes, and ask them whether his kinks involve straps.
Disgusting any way you look at it.
Nancy Irving
@Hungry Joe: @Pococurante: But in Texas they make them judges…
Nancy Irving
@Judas Escargot: Haven’t you heard of playlists?
Nancy Irving
@The Spy Who Loved Me: He is currently taking a *paid* leave of absence. Grrrr.
Nancy Irving
@staci:
Wow, you threatened your kids with death if they “told” on you? That is classic abuser behavior, although more often associated with child-molesters.
Thymezone
@TEL:
Call it serendipity.
:)
Nancy Irving
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
“Love” and “death” are not, but “carnal” and “charnel” are. Sex and butchery, both are of the flesh. :)
Nancy Irving
@Nancy Irving: @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
“Love” and “murder” are not, but “carnal” and “charnel” are. Sex and butchery, both are of the flesh. :)
Paul in KY
@Judas Escargot: I didn’t know about the 15 min. time limit. Dammit!