People are starting to look into the details of the Cain “plan”:
However, a much longer list of economists say Cain’s plan would be a tax hike for the lower middle class and a tax windfall for the wealthy.
If you have a family of four with an income of just under $50,000, they could end up paying more under the Cain plan. Currently, they are taxed around $3,850 in income tax. Under Cain’s plan, they would be taxed at 9 percent or pay $4,500.
That’s $650 more.
Although the family would save almost $4,000 in Social Security taxes, it would have to give up the child tax credit worth the same amount. Furthermore, it would pay an additional national sales tax of 9 percent on everything purchased, including groceries and clothes, which totals about $2,000.
That means under the Cain plan that family could end up paying $2,725 more.
“It’s going to raise the price of just about everything by about 9 percent,” said former George W. Bush economic policy adviser Bruce Bartlett. “We know from experience and analysis that that tends to hurt people with low incomes.”
No wonder Republicans love him.
Southern Beale
Shocked — shocked! — to learn the suspect in the Seal Beach massacre is a Tea Partier! But let’s keep talking about what crazies the Occupy Wall Street folks are.
trollhattan
WaPo gives it three Pinocchios. Apparently Cain’s “economist” is actually an accountant, with a BA.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/herman-cains-misleading-pitch-for-the-999-plan/2011/10/12/gIQAHszPgL_blog.html
amk
multiple choice mitten’s list is growing every day.
http://www.multiplechoicemitt.com/
feebog
Let’s see how long it will take for the latest Republican “Flavor of the Month” to crash and burn. Now that this stupid “999” plan is being exposed, I would guess about two weeks.
gnomedad
@Southern Beale:
Libruls are exploiting this tragedy, bla, bla, bla.
jrg
The same geniuses supporting Cain think their taxes increased under Obama. The moment the hicks catch on to the fact that their taxes increased (if Cain were elected), their puppetmasters will tell them it was actually Obama, or the democrats in congress that did it. Or maybe they’ll say Cain is a liberal.
There’s no telling exactly what they’ll say… The only guarantee is that the excuses will be stupid as shit, and they will work, because the GOP base is also stupid as shit.
Southern Beale
@gnomedad:
Facts have a known liberal bias, it’s true. Also, it’s always good for Republicans. And, IOKIYAR.
Face it, as much as right wingers want to portray Occupy Wall Street as (quoting Rove),
the Occupy Wall Street body count is still zero. Tea Party? Not so much.
Southern Beale
@gnomedad:
Facts have a known liberal bias, it’s true. Also, it’s always good for Republicans. And, IOKIYAR.
Face it, as much as right wingers want to portray Occupy Wall Street as (quoting Rove),
the Occupy Wall Street body count is still zero. Tea Party? Not so much.
Mark S.
Aw, fuck it, I’m reposting this comment from a dying thread:
I’m reading Bruce Bartlett’s analysis of Cain’s tax plan, and it’s a lot crazier than I thought. I knew that 999 was temporary and was going to be replaced by a national sales tax, but apparently there is a Phase 2 in between those two steps. (BTW, is Cain planning on becoming president for life, cause what the hell is the timeline on all of this?)
Phase 2 will just do some minor things like eliminate the payroll tax. But I’m fascinated by how the corporate tax would be changed:
Well, there’s a real simple solution: just cut workers’ wages! Bartlett points out a couple ways corps could exploit the dividend rule (by borrowing to pay for dividends), but it also seems like it’s much more advantageous to pay another company than to pay you own workers. Look for tons of shell companies to spring up.
burnspbesq
@feebog:
With all due respect, you’re kidding yourself if you think Cain’s plan doesn’t have legs. This Freep post perfectly captures why Cain’s plan resonates with low-information voters.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2792151/posts
Mary
@Southern Beale: Passive voice fail! From the article:
The weren’t “allegedly shot and killed” they were shot and killed, allegedly y Scitt DeKraai.
/pet peeve rant
catclub
Hoocoodanode that ‘A noun, a verb, and 9-9-9’ was another empty suit?
catclub
@Mark S.: “and it’s a lot crazier than I thought.”
Just because it includes repealing a few constitutional amendments, and adding a few others, presumably in weeks, you have to bring all the ‘crazy’ talk.
Is it not enough that it is completely unsound financially?
Comrade Dread
HAHAHAHAHAHA… whew. That is a good one.
It is not in an employer’s self-interest to give you a 4,000 dollar raise. You’ll be lucky to see a dime of that.
Complete, idealistic and stupid bullshit from the GOP.
Southern Beale
Michigan Republicans seek to automatically remove all inactive voters from the rolls. If you haven’t voted in six years your ballots will automatically be challenged.
Look for this great idea to sweep the Red States.
OGLiberal
The sad thing is that there are a lot of Republican voters who are members of a $50,000 earning family of four who will go out and vote for somebody with a plan like this that will screw him. They won’t vote for Cain – “I mean, the guy’s black…I only say I like him now, I won’t really vote for him to be president!” – but some other Republican – Mitt or whoever – who plans to fix all of our economic problems on the backs of the middle class and poor.
But as long as the poor get hit even harder these jackasses would probably be willing to see their taxes go up.
BGinCHI
Even a porn star who ran on a 69 plan would do less damage than this fucking idiot.
Jesus, this is like watching a bad TV show about politics.
More grown-ups, please.
Mark S.
@catclub:
Hey, things will move much faster when Congress can’t pass any bills longer than 3 pages.
Roger Moore
@Southern Beale:
I think you mean that he’s a liberal plant intended to discredit the Tea Party. No True Tea Partier would do that kind of thing.
Southern Beale
The best part about Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is that he appears to have cribbed it from a video game.
Not making this up.
Southern Beale
@Roger Moore:
Oh right! My bad.
burnspbesq
@BGinCHI:
Nope. Not happening. WYSIWYG.
El Cid
This is no more a “plan” than an ad for no interest financing at a furniture store represents a “plan”.
9 sets to choose from!
$9 down to take it home!
And pay nothing else for 9 more months! and blah blah blah…
But then, if it sounds like it lowers taxes, and it rhymes, then it must be the right thing for good patriot conservative Americans to do.
Tim O
Herman Cain?!? Nein! Nein! Nein!
eemom
I hate like HELL to admit it, but you do realize this means Crazy Lady was right when she said the devil was in the details….
Bruce S
O’Donnell did a great segment with Bartlett last night eviscerating “Cainsianism” – video at link:
http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/10/cainsian-economics-devil-is-in-details.html
Mark S.
Cain’s getting rid of the payroll tax. Does that mean SS is gone? Or is it just going to be privatized?
I love how even the most milquetoast Dem proposal is the most radical thing ever, but a gooper plan to destroy everything the govt’s done for the past 80 years is an “intriguing, bold and serious plan, worthy of serious discussion.”
RSA
@Comrade Dread:
I liked that part, too. Remember when Congress failed to reauthorize the FAA to collect taxes from airlines earlier this year? Remember how ticket prices stayed the same instead of dropping 10% to 15%? I don’t see a lot of big companies seeing this as a windfall for employees. Quite the contrary.
Bruce S
Michele Bachmann was wrong incidentally. You don’t have to turn Cain’s “999” upside down to see that it’s inspired by the Devil. Just read the damned thing. The tax plan from Hell.
dadanarchist
I’d like to note that in the UK you dial 9-9-9 instead of 9-1-1 when there’s an emergency.
999 was also a sorta middling punk band.
Mark S.
@Southern Beale:
Huh, I wonder if conservatives get all pissed off when they play Sim City and they cut funding for everything and end up with cities of ugly factories, traffic jams, and slums. Did any of the idiots at Reason ever write a post about how liberal Sim City is?
Culture of Truth
Not that “9-9-9” would ever become law, but wouldn’t it also be a huge brake on consumption? *If* it ever became law, you can be sure people would cut back on spending, and I suspect most would hold off all big purchases, assuming, or hoping, it would soon be repealed. So on top of its other merits it would probably cause a depression.
catclub
@Mark S.: “Does that mean SS is gone?”
Well, it is no longer funded. You figure it out.
Linnaeus
@Mark S.:
Nah, they probably just build a bunch of police stations.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
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No, no and no. Let me be clear: the 999 plan is meant to shaft the entire parasitical lower 99.9 percent, not just the middle class. Think of it as “going big.”
.
.
BGinCHI
@burnspbesq: Pretty please?
Ps. Go Wales!!!
b-psycho
@Southern Beale: I laughed so hard at that I nearly choked. Really.
I’m imagining if Cains somehow actually wins the primary, him showing up at the first debate against Obama, looking around, saying out loud “waitaminute, why the fuck am I here?”, and wandering off never to be seen again. Party insiders’ll basically get a do-over, and the last vestiges of Herman Cain would be rumors over the years of spotting him at random pizza joints across the country critiquing the product.
catclub
The amazing thing is no one is asking what fraction of present taxes this plan is likely to bring in.
I am confident in stating: less than at present ==> more deficits.
Bruce S
“on top of its other merits it would probably cause a depression”
You can scratch “probably.” It would put a big dent in consumption – in an economy that’s already choked by reduced demand – and also hurt states and localities, who are dependent on their own sales tax revenues – which would take another steep dip. And it would be people of modest means who would be forced to cut back the most.
It’s already caused me depression just thinking about the fact that this cynical huckster is the “front-runner” in the political party that currently controls Congress.
C.J.
So is it Hermmentum or Cainmentum?
dmsilev
@Southern Beale: Too funny.
Do you think someone should point out to Cain that in SimCity, you need to adequately fund all sorts of government services (education, healthcare, transportation, etc.) or you end up with a festering hell-hole?
Maude
@Mark S.:
It might be another round of the GWB let’s make SS private.
Svensker
@burnspbesq:
My, that fellow certainly uses lots of capitals, doesn’t he. It’s all about Liberty and American Economic Exceptionalism.
Roger Moore
@Mark S.:
Why should they be worried about the city dissolving into ugly factories, traffic jams, and slums? It’s all just the working of the invisible hand, and we are not allowed to question it.
That said, I have heard libertarian criticism of Sim City for being inherently statist, which seems like at least a semi-valid critique. The game really is about an ultra powerful, Robert Moses like city planner deciding what the city ought to be like. It would be interesting if they let you design a city with Houston-like zoning rules that permit any kind of residential or business growth in any area.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Why would they? Part of Cain’s promise about his 999 plan is that it’s revenue neutral. I am shocked, shocked that you suggest we can’t just take his word for it.
MikeJ
@catclub: Based on 2007 data:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/05/336649/cain-999-analysis-deficits/
Davis X. Machina
@Roger Moore: Oh, sure, reasonably high levels of regulation, taxation and social provision work in practice, but will they work in theory?
Bubblegum Tate
@burnspbesq:
Could you sum it up, please? There’s no way I’m clicking a Freeper link.
Libtard
Well in fairness, the example in the article is totally wrong. Cain claims he’s going to replace both payroll taxes and income taxes. So just looking at the income tax paid by a household with a $50k income is leaving out half of the story.
Better stick with Bartlett’s criticism next time, if accuracy counts. The standard news media never has been too good with factual facts.
fasteddie9318
Don’t you fucking hippies listen? THERE’S NO SALES TAX ON USED GOODS! Just pay somebody to puke into your mouth and there’s your goddamn tax-free food, you fucking whiners. Or scavenge the dump for pizza crusts, or whatever. Like Herb gives a fuck.
@Libtard:
The example in the article accounts for the fact that “…the family would save almost $4,000 in Social Security taxes.” No accounting for how much they’re going to have to spend to keep grandma and grandpa alive after Herb’s plan bankrupts Social Security and Medicare.
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
@BGinCHI: I like your plan – can you provide more details to flesh it out?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@C.J.:
Let’s try these on for size:
Cain is Able to get the job done
No Cain No Gain
or if you happen to live in Northern Virginia: a shot of NoVaCain
Culture of Truth
Runaway Cain
Jess
@Davis X. Machina: Sums up the libertarian mentality in a nutshell …
Bruce S
Ezra says that, contra Wagner, the 9-9-9 plan is even worse than it sounds. It’s essentially a 27% tax that only falls on wages and consumption.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/there-is-no-such-thing-as-the-9-9-9-tax/2011/08/25/gIQAiIhWhL_blog.html?wprss=ezra-klein
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
How about Let Them Eat Shit?
.
.
BGinCHI
@Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water: It implies reciprocity.
That’s all I can say right now.
Paul in KY
@eemom: Except she probably literally thought the Devil was in there (hiding behind a + sign).
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Bruce S:
The pain from Cain falls mainly on the plain.
BGinCHI
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: You are en fuego, my friend.
Morbo
@Mark S.: Where do you think 9-9-9 came from?
ET
What I don’t understand is why proponents don’t see that a hefty national sales tax (on top of state/local taxes) is going to mean people spend less. Sure some may have more in their wallet after a paycheck so they may feel richer, but I would think seeing the receipts after a week or two of going to the grocery and one trip to buy closes would wake them up in a damn hurry.
Of course they can talk all they want and sound like they are serious but since it pretty much has no chance they don’t have to worry about, you know, the reality of the plan.
maya
Here’s what it should be called each and every time Cain brings it up: Plan 9-9-9 From Outer Space
R-Jud
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: By George W., I think he’s got it!
Irony Abounds
@ET:
Or it will push consumption into the black market where no taxes are paid, further inflating the deficit. The plan is moronic, and it was chosen because Cain is, essentially, a salesman, and everyone knows the power of 9s when it comes to selling anything. The increase in sales of a product when it is, say, $19.99 vs. $20.00 is vastly greater than one cent difference should make. Cain is probably a good businessman, but he would be a disaster in any high office. Of course, the party that brought the world Sharon Angle, Christine O’Donnell and Joe Miller could very easily nominate him for President.
burnspbesq
@Bubblegum Tate:
Ya big fraidy-cat.
Money quote: