And of course the usual suspects in the Democratic party are going to give the GOP cover:
Obama has been touring the country, aiming to put pressure on the GOP to act. But Senate Democrats have indicated they are feeling some heat. Last week, Democratic leaders revised Obama’s bill, scrapping his proposed offsets. Instead of raising taxes on families making more than $250,000 annually, Senate Democrats lifted that figure to $1 million.
Despite the changes, the legislation still does not enjoy the support of all 53 senators who caucus with the Democrats. A handful of Democrats are undecided or leaning no on the bill.
Democrats who will vote no or are leaning no include Sens. Joe Manchin (W.Va.), Jon Tester (Mont.) and Ben Nelson (Neb.), who all hail from red states and are up for reelection next year.
Republican and Democratic analysts say it will be politically difficult for Obama to blame the GOP for blocking the bill if more than a few conservative Democrats break ranks.
I called Manchin’s office, and asked him to support the bill, also while noting to the poor intern who had to listen to me that I know that my call is futile, since all Manchin has done since he got to DC was screw this administration at every opportunity. I did, however, take the time to point out to him that while Manchin thinks he needs to fuck Obama over at every opportunity to be re-elected in 2012 in a state that hates Obama, he actually doesn’t. Voting for the jobs bill will help him politically:
In an interview with me this morning, Greenberg made a strong case that moderate Senate Democrats in red states would be foolish and shortsighted if they vote against the American Jobs Act today, as some of them appear to be prepared to do. The White House and Dems have been railing against Republicans for opposing the jobs bill, but if a few Senate Dems defect, and a simple majority of the Senate doesn’t support it, that will dilute the Dem message that Republicans are the key obstacle to progress on the economy.
But Greenberg’s case for voting for the bill went significantly beyond this concern about overall party messaging. He argued that moderate Democrats who vote against it are actually imperiling their own reelection chances.
“They reduce their risks for reelection by showing support for a jobs bill that’s going to be increasingly popular as voters learn more about it,” Greenberg said. “They have to be for something on the economy, and this the kind of proposal they should support. If I were advising them, I’d say you want to be backing a jobs bill with middle class tax cuts paid for by tax hikes on millionaires. Moderate voters in these states very much want to raise taxes on the wealthy to meet our obligations.”
Crucially, Greenberg pointed out that if moderate Dems are hoping to show distance from the President and his low approval numbers by voting against the jobs bill, they run another risk: Dem disunity on the economy could backfire on them.
“Voting No would increase their risk of losing,” Greenberg said bluntly. “Democrats would look divided on their central agenda. In the end you all go down with the ship here. Why would you send Democrats back to the Senate if they are divided on the most important issue facing people? Here you can show unity and purpose, which Democrats have not had an opportunity to do during budget negotiations.”
Greenberg dismissed concerns about Obama’s overall numbers. “It’s a long time until the election, and the presient’s standing can go up,” he said. “If the Democrats are divided and have a weak vote on the jobs bill, then moderates will only hurt themselves.”
It isn’t just the poor who the Republicans have convinced to vote against their interest- it’s the blue dogs in Congress. Every time the President on the liberal wing of the house provides them with an opportunity to help themselves, they shit the bed and vote with the GOP to protect the rich and well off and do nothing for those who actually need help. So I fully expect the jobs bill to fail, and even though it hurts him, I fully expect Manchin to vote against and then spew a stream of bullshit about the deficit. They just can’t help themselves. They have so fully bought into the GOP spin they don’t even know why they are Democrats anymore.
Hill Dweller
Pathetic. It shouldn’t even be a tough vote.
cleek
if only Obama would twist their arms! twist!
in an amazing bit of clarity, NPR actually reported this story correctly today: it might pass with a majority, but it can’t defeat the GOP’s filibuster.
i was so surprised to hear them put the blame where it’s due, i almost drove my car into a ditch.
Paul in KY
Good try, John. I guess they knew you were the owner of Balloon Juice, and not just some random Cole dude.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
I don’t understand why Obama won’t make use of the bully pulpit.
singfoom
Charlie Brown?
Check.
Lucy?
Check?
We’ve seen this show before. The end sucks.
Yutsano
Wow that was some shit analysis. One part says they’re definite nos but if you go further none of them have actually decided. Of course The Hill isn’t exactly known for being insightful.
WereBear
As Mr WereBear pointed out, in 2010 it was Blue Dogs who went down in large numbers. Their schtick is wearing thin for their own constituents.
Cat Lady
If I hear about Obama needing to play hardball with the Republicans one.more.time. I’m going to hit someone with a baseball bat.
Clever Moniker
More self-sabotage (also via Greg Sargent).
Hill Dweller
@Yutsano: The Hill is certainly shit, but I think it is accurate to say all three of the stooges referenced in the article are wavering, which I find baffling. This vote is such a no-brainer, both politically and economically.
Mnemosyne
@WereBear:
Yep. You’d think that the fact that the congresscritters who ran away from Obama in 2010 all got tossed out on their ears might possibly register with the remaining Blue Dogs, but the reflex of opposing their own party from within is just too ingrained.
NonyNony
@Paul in KY:
They probably got him mixed up with Juan Cole though. Like almost everyone else seems to.
cleek
support the president, you fuckers!
Short Bus Bully
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly. Repubs look at them as the enemy and their own constituents look at them as worse than spineless, more like traitors to ANY kind of cause.
This is what happens when they swallow that shit that David Brooks is spewing about CENTRISM. They actually think that a vast majority of Americans out there are all about Dems acting like Repubs.
Assholes.
Paul in KY
@Cat Lady: Hardball! (said like Marty Feldman says ‘Blucher’ in Young Frankenstein).
patrick II
Appealing to his own job self interest was a wise choice of persuasive tactics. Appealing to him on the grounds of increasing other peoples’ jobs would be good for the country would have got you nowhere.
If I thought it would help, I would ask each of our reluctant democratic senators to spend some time on the “we are 99%” site — but that would be about as useful as appealing for the good of the country.
Senyordave
Why is Manchin a Democrat? Does he believe in any major part of the Democratic paltform? The Blue Dogs have zero allegiance to Democrats, and seem to delight in causing harm to the party.
This country is fucked. The poor and middle class whites will always vote against their own interests. All the right needs to do is to find the N. We know what N stands for, it just changes. Right now the N’s are illegals and Muslims. Then there are the old standards, like welfare queens – that is a surefire tactic that works 100% of the time.
The both sides do it doctrine will never die. As long as Brooks is breathing it will endure. No one wants to admit that McConnell, Cantor, et. al. are treasonus bastards who are actively working to damage this country.
lacp
And this comes as a surprise to…who, exactly?
harlana
If I recall, Blue America, or something similar, helped Tester raise money for his campaign. What a crying shame.
jfxgillis
John:
I’m good with all that.
Very recent history has shown that Blue Dogs who support Republican Presidents on their signature policy proposal (see: Fate of Max Cleland, et al. in 2002) or oppose Democratic Presidents on signature policy proposal (see: Fate of all those House Blue Dogs who took a “free” vote against Health Care Reform in 2010) end up voting against their own opportunistic best interest anyway even as they think they’re being opportunistically self-serving.
We can’t build a true center-left Social Democratic party until the Blue Dogs are purged, so, purge it is–even if it’s a stupidly self-destructive self-purge like some teen with an eating disorder.
singfoom
Is it even squared with reality to expect the Senate to help normal people now? Sure, there are some Democrats who I agree with on policy positions, but the majority of the people in the Senate are in the 1% and that’s their constituency. Silly proles, political power is for economic elites.
Martin
How many people in West Virginia earn between $250K and $1M? Four? Is there any public support for our so-called job-creators there? I doubt it.
Bludger
At best, it’s only symbolic to the villagers. The jobs bill was DOA from the get go and there will be no consequences for anyone who votes for it or against it.
OWS gives me some hope that more people are starting to pay attention, but the competition is too entrenched at this point to believe anything will change in the next few years. FFS, just look at the idiots in the 53% tumblr.
We are just racing to the bottom. The bottom being the point at which we definitively prove the galtian utopia economy works about as well as the marxist-leninist economy.
kindness
So John,
Are you going to vote for your douchebag Senator when he comes up for re-election? I mean, at what point is it OK to bite off your nose to spite your face? (for me, it was Obama & the DOJ & IRS announcing they were going after medical marijuana her in CA last week).
JGabriel
Short Bus Bully:
It does seem counter-intuitive to run on a platform of “Vote For Me! I’m Hated By Everyone!”
.
cleek
@Bludger:
i have no reason not to assume that each and every one of them is a professional “conservative”.
trollhattan
Speaking of jobs. Just unshackle our presently shackled corporations for a Millyun New Jobs!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/companies-use-fuzzy-math-in-job-claims-candidates-still-buy-in/2011/10/07/gIQAqoYBbL_story.html?hpid=z1
Bludger
@cleek:
Possible, but I see this misguided sense of self-loathing quite a bit where I live and work. Granted, I live and work in the Southeast United States…
Linnaeus
And herein lies the conundrum. Because it’s Democrats like Manchin that we’re told need to be elected because no other Democrat can be in places like West Virginia. There’s some merit to that argument, at least in the short term. But if they’re going to continue to blunt major pieces of legislation like this, you have to start thinking about making some changes.
Bill E Pilgrim
What about that guy who’s with us about everything except the war? Surely he’ll vote yes?
Funny how bizarre that line sounds now, not only in how absurd the claim was even back then, but the idea of “the war” being some sort of bright dividing line between anyone and anyone else.
Anyway Holy Joe is voting no. Of course.
wvng
It is really hard to remember why, as a Democrat, I should support Manchin. Literally the only reason I can imagine is that he helps us retain the majority. Of course, he also helps us fail to get anything done. But West Virginians love him, because he slimes Obama – and sliming the ni….. is way popular here. Sadly, Manchin’s polling is through the roof.
Elie
@WereBear:
They go down for sure, but are we better off overall having Blue Dogs who at least vote with our interests SOME of the time, or the crazy assed republicans that DEFINITELY vote against everything?
We do not yet — YET — have a national constituency that supports majority even slightly left. Not yet. In red states, blue dogs are the best we can do for now until we build a progressive grass roots that can replace them with winning progressives.
So while I am unhappy about this potential outcome, I knew that this was a possibility given the realities just laid out.
piratedan
OT:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/06/338461/topeka-kansas-city-council-considers-decriminalizing-domestic-violence-to-save-money/
just wow…..
TenguPhule
After The GOP have their turn on the wall, Traitors like Manchin will be next in line.
Sloegin
Blue Dog Senators will be Blue Dogs, but why vent about them if this bill has no chance in the House? Or did I miss something?
TenguPhule
After capping Boner on the steps of Capital Hill, blowing out a Blue Dog Knee Cap or two will get the House and Senate in line.
Brachiator
I don’t see these people as “moderate.” They are bonehead stupid. And I agree that they are doing nothing for those who actually need help.
It is almost strange beyond belief to watch the Democrats in Congress avoid every opportunity to do the right thing. Budgets that focus on deficit reduction and austerity are failing everywhere in developed nations, and yet conservatives (and Tories in the UK) insist that more of the same will magically achieve something other than failure.
Elie
@Linnaeus:
Linnaeus, the Democrats in WVA could put up a more liberal Democrat, BUT HE/SHE WOULD NOT GET ELECTED, right now.
We have to do the work to build that progressive grass roots deep enough to get a real democrat. Till then, we do the best we can and wangle whatever we can from the blue dogs. I am not happy to say that.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@wvng:
Fuck if my family and the Mountaineers are the only thing I have left to hang my hat on as a former West Virginian, and it seems like realignment is gonna destroy the national influence of the latter, so….fuck all.
Elie
@Brachiator:
I would argue that they are not stupid — just self serving.
They could not survive election or re-election in WVA doing as we would like. Still, on occasion we can get them to do a little for our side. If you replace them with republicans, we get nothing, ever. Is that better in your view?
gogol's wife
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I was working and did not see this. I just really lost it on the phone with his office. What a pathetic excuse for a human being.
Linnaeus
@Elie:
I’m not saying that’s wrong. The key is finding that right point (after you’ve done the ground work) at which you can put up a credible liberal/progressive candidate. Trouble is, that’s always going to entail some uncertainty about the candidate’s chances, and you’re always going to have to deal with people who will say “not right now”.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Sloegin:
Because if the blue dogs help give their stupid asses cover, the GOP will get the breadth to say “SEE!! SEE!! Bipartisan opposition, America really really really hates you stupid libby lib libs, so FUCK YOUR JOBS!!!” And as infuriatingly fucking stupid as it is, it somehow does resonate with “centrists” and independents who haven’t delved into the issue enough to think “Gee, maybe the Dems are just being way too damn partisan if they can’t even keep together like this?” Yes, it doesn’t make sense, but the GOP has managed to fuck the country over by completely upturning what should and shouldn’t make sense.
JGabriel
@Elie:
What will that look like in another year though? If the message of the Occupy Together protests gets through to people, does a more liberal Democrat have a chance in WV?
Is that a contingency WV Democrats should be preparing for?
.
Ella in New Mexico
Emails to these guys just went out, phone calls to follow after my nail appointment:
“This is in response to a recent news article that lists you, Senator , as a possible “NO” vote on President Obama’s jobs bill, expected to come up for passage tonight.
I am encouraging you to reconsider, and remember that you were elected as a Democrat, not a Republican. To vote against this bill is not only wrong, it will mean that you will now be considered a “DINO–Democrat in Name Only” by those of us who are sick to death of Republican’s and their commitment to destroy Barack Obama at the expense of the nation’s economy.
As a lifetime Democrat, I not only support my own state’s Democratic legislators, I often contribute to those candidates in other states who I feel deserve support. I donate to individuals as well as groups such as the DSCC and the Democratic Party, both of which will be expected to contribute to your future re-election campaign.
However, given the gravity of the nation’s current economic situation, I will not only refuse to donate to any Democrat who sides with Republicans against the President, I will actively donate to their challengers. I will actively work to get out the message that Democrats, in times of crisis, must stand together for what their beliefs are, not just use the prefix in their election campaigns.
The “Occupy Wall Street” campaign is just the beginning. Next will come “Throw the DINO’S Out”. “
OzoneR
Obama should have used the bully pulpit!
Cue the firebagger excuse of “Oh, Obama never wanted this anyway and this proves it”
Elie
@Linnaeus:
You are right to some extent. The support for progressivism begins at smaller local races where we get to introduce our hopefully rockin candidates and let the locals get to know and like them. Then we move them up the chain of offices, building their support and reps as we go. Its harder to do than to describe because of course, all along the way, they are hotly opposed by very conservative and reactionary right wingers. The Democrat who survives that process right now is a Manchin. Something very fundamental has to happen at the grass roots to make the guy/gal who survives that be more liberal and that is the hitch. What event or knowledge in the red, rural, southern moderates makes them more open to a progressive’s ideas? One would think that fairness and equality would do that, but they just think that means for “coloreds”. Unions were destroyed in the south a while ago, making working rights another potential trigger that we do not have. The tops of mountains are literally being blown off in WVA and ground water poisoned with huge and climbing rates of cancer, etc. Still, the mining industry is king and its hard to get folks to see an alternative.
It can be done, but its not easy and obviously gonna take a lot of effort and thought.
Cris (without an H)
God DAMN it Tester! JT is going into next year’s election as a clear underdog; his opponent, Denny Rehberg, has name recognition and is a fully-entrenched good ol’ boy who won’t take your guns away. The last thing Tester should be doing is trying to posture as Republican-light. Montanans don’t want Republican-light; they want Republicans. But they also will embrace a strong, independent Democrat.
OzoneR
@Elie:
I think a Democrat could get elected supporting a jobs bill like this one in West Virginia, I don’t think one can while there’s a black president and I don’t think that Democrat is going to get the support of progressive groups because they’re bound to be pro-coal, pro-life, and anti-gay.
gene108
Do these Democrats not realize Obama is basically “chocolate” Reagan?
A personally popular President, whose approval numbers are down because of high unemployment.
Republicans have figured this out, which is why they want to keep unemployment high. If the unemployment rate drops to 8% and looks to be steadily declining, the Democrats will romp to victory in 2012.
I really don’t know what motivates these people, other than some self destructive, self-loathing that I cannot fathom.
Elie
@OzoneR:
Its a complex equation that is specific to each state. What comes out of the end of that process is the person we see in the Congress right now. Sadly.
I never say never, but we have to find some way to appeal to our common issues and right now, the right is very successful with their ‘wedge” social issues that keep the target populations divided.
Brachiator
@Elie:
This can be a distinction without a difference.
I think that conventional thinking has led to a major political miscalculation for Democrats. Old School thinking talks about “getting a little for our side.” But the Tea Party targeted some Blue Dogs, and got ’em kicked out. The Tea Party has also either expelled or neutralized GOP moderates. Now, Tea Party stubbornness pushes the GOP away from any meaningful compromise, and “getting a little for our side” means getting less and less.
In key areas, the Obama Administration has been blunted even more than Clinton had been opposed by Newt, by a concerted effort by the GOP to grind the government to a halt, tie legislation to budget cuts, oppose judicial and executive department appointments, etc.
The behavior of these Democrats is not simply self-serving. They are furthering the interests of right wing Republicans.
How is this acceptable to you?
Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937
@Hill Dweller: Besides its not going to pass because of the republicans. Like you said, its a no brainer even if you’re a coward in a red state. There’s no benefit at all to pissing off your party and president.
kindness
@Elie: Yes, sometimes letting a Republican win is better. Why? Because after a term in office the locals see what grifters they really are, see that they only really want to help the top 1% and then it’s easier to elect an actual Democrat. Especially if they use Elizabeth Warren’s words.
FlipYrWhig
Manchin, I get, because this is what he is — Clarence Thomas is to Nino Scalia as Manchin is to Ben Nelson. Tester makes no sense. Tester is supposed to be a populist. Tester said he wanted to repeal the Patriot Act. Tester was the darling of DailyKos and, IIRC, David Sirota.
But, you know, hold on. I want to take back that I “get” Manchin. For fuck’s sake, you should be able to get a populist out of the Democratic party of West Virginia — maybe not a liberal who cares about same-sex marriage and the rights of immigrants, but a working-class hero who wants a level playing field for the little guy. What is the appeal of Manchin, if he’s not that? Is he just Appalachian Chris Christie, that is, an asshole?
Cris (without an H)
@kindness: Was that sarcasm?
Bill F
Just sent my destined-to-be-ignored e-mail to Sen. Pat Toomey. I will always wonder what people like him who are fairly well versed in econ 101 believe deep down. Is he willfully blind to economic reality, just worried about a Club For Growth primary challenge or both?
gene108
@Sloegin:
I think it’s more about election strategy in 2012. As goes the national Democratic Party, so go the local races, including Senate races.
Maybe these guys have survived the Republican take over of their states and don’t think Democrats will ever be popular in those states again.
I don’t get the logic or lack there of.
A good, or at least improving, economy should be good for incumbents.
FlipYrWhig
@kindness:
Sounds like wishful thinking, alas.
Mnemosyne
@JGabriel:
I think it depends on your definition of “liberal.” If a Democrat picked up the economic populism banner and ran with it, I suspect s/he could do quite well in a place like West Virginia, especially if they could work in some good bashing of Massey Energy and other dangerous mining companies who are killing West Virginians.
Bill F
Just sent my destined-to-be-ignored e-mail to Sen. Toomey. I always wonder what people like him who are fairly well versed in econ 101 believe deep down. Are they willfully blind, worried about a Club For Growth primary challenge or both?
FlipYrWhig
@Bill F: IIRC Toomey IS Club for Growth — wasn’t he literally the head of the organization? He’s as absolutist as Grover Norquist.
wvng
Flipyrwig wrote: “What is the appeal of Manchin, if he’s not that? Is he just Appalachian Chris Christie, that is, an asshole?” He has a gun, he’s not afraid to use it, and he talks smack about the black president. He’s an asshole custom fit to WV.
khead
How is the health of Scalia and Kennedy?
Because the USSC is about the only reason I can see to keep folks from just asking/telling Manchin to go ahead and become a Republican.
WV has become South Carolina with mountains.
Davis X. Machina
Joe “Nighthorse” Manchin.
Bill F
@FlipYrWhig: Yes he is, but as a Senator his website is strewn from end to end with examples of “look what I brought to PA from the Feds” so I wouldn’t think that deep down he believes that stuff. But obviously I could be wrong!
Cris (without an H)
Nobody believes that stuff when it comes to bringing home the bacon. Even Ron Paul makes sure his own constituents get their barrel of pork.
khead
Never. Gonna. Happen. King Coal owns WV.
gene108
@Cris (without an H):
I’ve seen Democrats, who are popular state wide in red states, but who cannot maintain that popularity, if they end up in the Senate and/or the House.
The national Democratic party isn’t popular in those states and leading Democratic figures – Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy (while he was alive) – are easy to demonize for any Republican strategist.
An add stating “John Tester voted with Nancy Pelosi’s California liberal legislation,” for example can be used against Tester.
There are some risks to going all-in with the Congressional Democrats, if you are Democrat from a red-state/district. They have to pick their battles, when to go all-in and when to hedge their bets.
This is one of those bills they need to go all-in on.
The guts of the bill are really one of the first pro-middle class pieces of legislation to come out of D.C. in a long time, that can be easily summarized. It’s foolish to vote against it, unlike say HCR, which is cumbersome and hard to explain.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Elie:
And this takes time, lot of time, because that is a long ladder to climb for a career pol, from local office to state level office, then the House, later the Senate, with pauses in-between due to lost races. It can take decades to climb the greasy pole. And the pols doing it tend to retain their attitudes and knowledge which was current in their younger days. Which is why it is important to understand that the US Senate is like a time machine, in particular it preserves a snapshot of the grassroots state of the Democratic party circa 20-30 years ago. A lot about the Blue Dogs can be understood if you assume they still live in a universe where the standard bearers of the GOP are Reagan and GHB and the Democratic party is still being led by the likes of Walter Mondale thru Bill Clinton. The Blue Dogs act like folks who never lived thru the W administration, the collapse of the GOP’s popularity in 2006 and 2008, or the financial collapse in 2008, because their brains stopped processing much in the way of new info before these things happened. They must wake up every morning, see that Obama is still in the White House, and think WTF?
catclub
@Martin: I think ther might be few more than 4 surgeons and wealthy lawyers in WVA than you mention. And Manchin probably knows every one of them,
well.
Elie
@kindness:
sorry. I think that is NOT what happens at all. sadly.
People in red states don’t seem to see the better progressive policies like you think…or they would have by now. plus the progressive legislation get watered down nationally so its hard for a state democrat to point to something that just he/she helped get done. Meantime — and you must remember this — the Republicans are putting out tons of propaganda and lies…including those lovely wedge issues that keep the whities all crazy and afraid of the “colored”, teh gays and mooslims
No. In theory the method you describe that somehow by electing all Republicans folks will wake up and then we will get liberal victories has been proven demonstrably incorrect in recent past US history. You know that, right?
kindness
No, I wasn’t being sarcastic when I said some times it is better to just let the Republican win.
Here’s my point. Let’s use Senator Lieberman or Nebraska Senator Nelson as an example. If either of these asshats were my senator, I wouldn’t vote for them. Why? Because even though they might vote for the Democratic guy/woman to win the Speaker’s job, when they go out of their way every single time real stuff is on the line to make A) the President B) their party C) progressive’s in general look bad they fuck it up royally for the rest of us.
Take this jobs bill as an example. Yesterday Cokie Roberts went ape shit on her NPR piece. The whole premise was Obama is killing the country. She used the Jobs Bill as an example. She made a HUGE deal out of the fact that Obama isn’t going to get every single Democratic vote so in her mind it stood to reason that Obama (and she was thinking of us liberals even though she never said it) are killing American and deserve to be run out of town tarred & feathered. And Cokie is supposed to be some moderate republican. She isn’t she’s a has been old crone who is quickly approaching Reagan’s Alzheimer’s levels.
This is exactly how it gets played out to the intentionally uninformed populace that call themselves independents. This is how Republicans win races. They’ve done everything they could to fuck up this country after the 2008 melt down but because they don’t have the Presidency or the Senate, it’s all Obama & the Democratic Party’s fault. And that entire line of reasoning only works when the Blue Dogs go off the reservation and use Republican Talking Points as their own shield.
No, at some point you gotta disown them Blue Dogs. At some point, you have to fight for what you believe in because giving yourself someone who only helps you 5% of the time really does mean you are getting dicked 95% of the time. Let those asshats get Blanche Lincolned. It will happen to Senator Nelson this time and I’m going to be glad he gets canned.
At some point, it isn’t biting off your nose to spite your face. At some point, it’s cutting the gangrenous nose off your face so you can continue to survive.
rikryah
so tired of these phuckers, don’t know what to do.
Davis X. Machina
The Democrat-led coalition in the Senate between the Democrats and the Democrats is coming unglued again.
Three parties, two labels.
EconWatcher
FYI, for those of you in Virginia:
I just called Senator Webb’s office. I was told he has not yet decided on whether he will vote for the jobs bill. I asked to be counted in favor.
I’m disappointed with his vacillation, but calls right now could matter.
Cris (without an H)
@Davis X. Machina: Ongoing tension between the teabaggers and the old guard suggest there is a coalition on the other side of the aisle as well.
Elie
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Yeah — you are right. But we have to figure out how to bring in new blood.
So many times the local democratic organization is ossified and filled with zombie brain dead antiques who do not know how to find and develop good talent. Add to that, running for office is very hard — its hard on the candidates, hard on their families and hard on your pursestrings. You have to have the fire in the belly and given the talk about how “bad” government is, just makes recruiting that much harder. As bad as just running for office is, losing a race is an emotional nightmare that again, takes a tough person to endure.
So we ask a lot without knowing what we ask. We can help get better candidates by getting involved in lots of different progressive activities in our states. Good candidates need consituents that they know are engaged and will back them. You can’t do that on the net. Its one of the reasons that churches have been so effective for conservatives — they are highly motivated and can be depended upon. There is no group like that for the progressives. That and once you win, we make sure we knee cap you as soon as possible.. (wink — just kidding — kinda)
danimal
My advice to Obama would be this: Campaign for the Jobs Bill in Democratic states represented by Blue Dogs. It may not be helpful in the short-term, but these senators need to pay a price for their disloyalty. Tester may need the White House more than he realizes if Obama is calling him out on Helena TV.
geg6
@Ella in New Mexico:
Just did the same except I faxed them. I am told emails are ignored but faxes and actual letters get read.
wvng
Great thought from commenter Live Free or Die over at Benen’s place:
“Well Obama’s plan got the thumbs up from the CBO and other economists. The GOP does not even have a scorable plan. Also, too add to the list of saboteurs, Ben Nelson and Manchin. If I was Obama, I would campaign in WV and talk about how much Manchin and he are alike, and how much he loves Manchin-just to fuck with his head. Byrd and Rockefeller didnt act like such putzes”
Elie
@kindness:
Well, depends on how you look at it. Your argument doesnt make sense because you are basically saying that because some crazy MSM mouthpiece (Cokie), blathers on — and they all do, that this is some sort of “victory” for them. It isnt. If you keep counting their MSM visibility like some sort of vote, we will always look like we are losing.
Check out one of the earlier mistermix posts on the giant nothingburger. Obama played the teatards and they lost — but its never interpreted that way by many progressives who seem intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Of course I am an environmental activist. We have to sometimes take our victories mixed with other defeats and keep pushin forward. If your only measure is a black and white victory, anything gray is going to be defeat.
Davis X. Machina
@Cris (without an H): Show me the votes. John Cormyn and Olympia Snowe vote the same way >97% of the time.
There is no Republican Joe Manchin. Joe Manchin takes care of that for them.
kindness
@Elie: No, I’m saying that because these ‘Blue Dogs’ are used as a broad barometer of actual Democrats in the MSM, having these asshats hurts Democrats more than they help them. & this will be especially true in the 2012 election.
But I am sorry you feel my point of view doesn’t make sense.
Nellcote
It isn’t over till the votes are counted. Call your Senators even if they’re a yes vote. You know the other side is calling.
Elie
@kindness:
No worries. I respect your point of view and opinion. Just disagree. Somewhat.
Hill Dweller
Webb just announced on the Senate floor that he is a ‘no’. Apparently he had issues with the timing of the bill(whatever the hell that means) and the raising taxes on millionaires.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Hill Dweller:
Fucking asshat. Those poor millionaires and their taxes (which have been the lowest in a fucking century). And the timing…why the fuck else do you think it’s happening now, you fucking nitwit?! The timing is precisely because we need something fucking done now and to at least draw the dividing line between the dos and won’ts. And apparently you decide to be a won’t because ‘the timing is wrong’ and ‘those poor millionaires’. Fuck you, Sen. Webb. No, seriously, fuck you.
Elie
Just called my two Senators — Cantwell and Murray. Niether has stated on the record but have supported the President in the past.
Elie
and strategically, what Webb does is give the Republicans cover for trying to blow up the economy and the President’s chances for re-election.
We get it. He bailed back in 2010. For a military man, he is a self serving narcissist. So much for sticking with critical principles — like jobs for folks and easing the fall. Instead, buffer the effing millionaires.
I am moving to VA. I will not forget this vote. I work very hard on campaigns to get people elected — and unelected.
Elie
@Elie:
although, in all fairness, I doubt that I would work to get webb unelected and get some other fucker republican in that seat.
sigh
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Elie:
Being a rank-and-file Dem becomes more and more like an exercise in punching ourselves in the face, and taking solace that at least it’s not a GOPer’s steeltoe. :/
FlipYrWhig
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Exactly. Ex-fucking-zactly. It’s a whole segment of the party whose principal concern is avoiding the fate of Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky. Even though that was twenty motherfucking years ago. Aaaaaarrrrgghghghg.
Elie
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Yeah, but I gotta ride that ride — that is the game we have right now and huge policy consequences follow from these marginal situations…
kindness
@Elie: I thought Webb had already announced that he wasn’t going to run again.
As much as I did support Webb & Tester, I never figured they’d go out of their way to stick it to the rest of the party like they have. I might still like them on a personal level but not respect them as elected public servants.
slightly-peeved
I remember that when Obama started calling out Congress for doing nothing a month or two ago, some people wondered why he was calling out the body rather than Republicans specificallly? I think this might be why.
ruemara
No offense, but posts like this should have mandatory contact phone numbers. Don’t fret without giving them some anxiety in return. I don’t get the predefeat mantra, I don’t get giving up. If you’re going down, grab your opponents limb and drag them with you. It’s the only way to lose. Shit, even if it’s a scratch, it means something.
Elie
@kindness:
No I getcha. I am not A “fan” of either — just ended up in this place due to a series of electoral changes that made these two able to play both sides — which they do and have.
Yeah, Webb may not run for another senate term, but I am sure he is up to something, aren’t you? Why else not just go on and support policy that on its face is a good thing for working class people? My guess is that he wants to have his cred with the oligarchs for some reason and has to play that. Of course, sometimes things just don’t work out like one thinks…
Hill Dweller
@Elie: Webb is probably angling for a lobbying job and/or a place at a right wing
sociopath’sbillionaire’s think tank.ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@FlipYrWhig:
Yep. The converse is, is we can move candidates up thru the ranks quickly, we can get more progressive Dems into the Senate (as long as the Peter Principle doesn’t bite us in the ass). A case in point is right here in my own Congressional district NM-1, where Martin Heinrich is running for the Senate seat being vacated by Jeff Bingaman. If Martin succeeds in winning that seat, he’ll have gone from Albuquerque City Council to the US Senate in a mere 6 years. That is a very rare case, and special circumstances apply (this is in a small state with a limited talent pool, and the interlocking structure of rivalry and patronage within the long-serving incumbent Dem and GOP officeholders here in NM circa 2006-2008 was a house of cards just waiting to collapse), but it does show what we can do given the opportunity.
kindness
@Hill Dweller: Or Fox News. He won’t be going back to his old Navy job, that’s for sure. No, he’ll be looking for SERIOUS coin now.
FlipYrWhig
@Hill Dweller: I’d be surprised, honestly. Webb is kind of a cranky old coot who hates everything and everybody. I can’t imagine him thriving as a lobbyist or consultant. He’d probably put an actual boot up someone’s actual ass the first afternoon on the job.
Don
@EconWatcher: Word I heard is that he said he’d vote for cloture but won’t support the bill, period.
The Populist
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
Nice try bud. Memo to Manchin: The guy who just got elected governor? The right tried to paint him as a s o s h a list and he still squeaked by. If am Sen. Manchin I vote for this and if he still needs cover, argue that jobs are more important than whether I support the President’s overall agenda or not.
The Populist
Oh and heres a talking point: If this does not pass the Senate Obama CAN still argue the right won’t support anything like this bill. Reason? How many of them broke ranks to vote yes?
A few dems are always going to be pains much the way Ron Paul is a pain in the GOPs ass when he votes against a lot of their war plans.
FlipYrWhig
@The Populist: Yes, but you’re thinking of it as yourself, rather than as a grandstanding douchebag who resents the president. Manchin _should_ be for it — frankly, it’s just what the doctor ordered for a Rust Belt state. But he’s not. Because he’s a dick.
ETA: And sometimes when you’re in the voting booth your choices are between a dimwitted dick and an absolute monster. So you have to grumble, then pull the dick lever. And then vote.
Elie
@FlipYrWhig:
Yeah — Webb takes orders from no-one but Webb.
All narcissist all the time…In fact, he doesn’t support God except for every other week.
Elie
@FlipYrWhig:
Yes, so true for many things in life… MY life anyway ;-)
Elie
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
And we must always try to seize whatever we can…
I have learned (or rather I am trying to learn) and stopped whining about the burden that progressives bear in doing the right and humanistic thing. For some reason, its just damned hard to do and definitely to sustain even after you “do” it — to keep it from being undone..
Its our lot. I just have to put my head through the harness and pull the wagon best I can. We all do it.
FlipYrWhig
@Elie: I’m not sure I see narcissism there. More misanthropy. He might even be fun to hang out with, talking trash about everything and everybody as he drinks everyone under the table. But he’s an irritant as an elected politician.