The latest from Emily.
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE: Within moments of my posting this, I learned that Amnesty hasn’t given up yet — because they’re Amnesty and they don’t give up. Here’s the petition to sign, demanding that Chatham County (Savannah) District Attorney Larry Chisolm “seek a withdrawal of the death warrant and support clemency himself” (last week, I asked you to sign a Change.org petition to the same effect — please sign this one, too). If you don’t manage to sign right away, please try again. And/or call or fax the Chatham County’s District Attorney’s office – phone: 912-652-7308 / fax: 912-652-7328.
I’m also going to be making a donation to Amnesty today — if you can do likewise, I urge you to do so. They are doing God’s own work here on earth.
*********************
I’m beside myself, so full of shame of my country and my countrymen. That people engaged in the administration of justice, entrusted with upholding our laws and protecting our lives, could allow the death sentence to go forward in a case that is so thoroughly riddled with doubt is beyond me.
I feel such ache and horror for Mr. Davis’s family, and find I am suddenly glad that his mother died last spring, of a broken heart her daughters believe, because at least she won’t actually see her boy killed. I thought of this as I sent my boy to school today: Troy Davis was once a boy, on his way to school. And tomorrow, at 7:00 pm EST, he, too, will be a murder victim — only the murderers will be the people meant to protect him.
I am ashamed, ashamed, ashamed. What is wrong with this country? What is wrong with us? As Andrew Cohen, chief legal analyst and legal editor for CBS News wrote in The Atlantic yesterday:
Whether the trial witnesses against him were lying then or are lying now, by fighting against his requested relief Georgia is saying that its interest in the finality of its capital judgments is more important than the accuracy of its capital verdicts.
Here’s The Guardian’s report on the decision:
Georgia’s pardons board has rejected clemency for death row inmate Troy Davis, who has attracted high-profile support for his claim that he was wrongly convicted of killing a police officer in 1989.
According to his defence lawyers, the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles on Tuesday rejected Davis’s request for clemency after hearing hours of testimony from his supporters and prosecutors.
“I am utterly shocked and disappointed at the failure of our justice system at all levels to correct a miscarriage of justice,” Brian Kammer, one of Davis’s attorneys, said after the decision was announced.
Davis is set to die on Wednesday for the murder of off-duty Savannah officer Mark MacPhail, who was killed while rushing to help a homeless man who was being attacked. It is the fourth time in four years his execution has been scheduled by Georgia officials.
Davis was convicted at a 1991 trial almost exclusively on the basis of nine witnesses who all said they had seen him carry out the shooting. Davis was present at the scene, but has always insisted that another man, Sylvester Coles, attacked the homeless man and shot MacPhail when he intervened.
The murder weapon was never found, and there was no DNA or other forensic evidence.
In the years since the trial, seven of the nine witnesses have come forward and recanted their evidence, saying they were put under pressure to implicate Davis by the investigating police. Other witnesses have come forward to say they had heard Coles confess to killing the officer.
The parole board heard from one of the jurors who originally recommended the death penalty for Davis. Brenda Forrest told the panel she no longer trusted the verdict or sentence: “I feel, emphatically, that Mr Davis cannot be executed under these circumstances,” she said, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The board also heard from Quiana Glover, who testified she had heard Coles confess in June 2009 to having been the killer, at a party where he had been drinking heavily.
Following the arguments for clemency, members of MacPhail’s family and
the prosecution side were expected to call for the execution to go ahead.Brian Evans, a death row specialist at Amnesty International’s US branch, said the extraordinary outpouring of support for Davis was partly of a reflection of changing attitudes in America towards executions.
Opinion polls suggest the US has softened its view from its once-hardline, pro-capital punishment position, and is now fairly evenly divided between defenders of the death penalty and those who see life without parole as a satisfactory alternative.
Last week, I wrote in The Atlantic that if the clemency bid failed, I would tell my daughter that we could at least know that when Troy Davis goes to his death, he will do so in the knowledge that he is being held by thousands upon thousands of loving hands. Hundreds of thousands of loving hands. I have no way of ever knowing if that will ease his passing, but I have to believe it is so.
Please send your thoughts to him tomorrow, at 7:00 pm EST. Please pray that his passing will be easy.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
Thank you so much ABL and John.
And please, please: Sign, call, and spread the word.
Even if you support the death penalty in certain cases, 1,500 legal experts (some of which you’ll see listed here, including several former state Supreme Court justices http://www.amnestyusa.org/sites/default/files/troylegalsupporters.pdf ) have said that this case is far too thin to support execution.
Please act. Please.
Daveboy
If you’re going to kill a man you have to be sure.
There’s just no way to be sure with this guy. Shame on Georgia’s justice system. I hope every one of these government officials who are willing to sign off on the death of a potentially innocent man realize that they may have consigned their souls to Hell.
Xecky Gilchrist
Done. Fingers crossed, friends are aware.
burnspbesq
Sad and unconscionable, but so, so predictable.
jwest
I would be willing to sign a petition that postponed Davis’ execution pending the outcome of a trial of Sylvester Colmes and the trials of the seven witnesses for perjury.
If you can’t get a good conviction when there are 9 eyewitnesses, we better just give up.
Anna in PDX
The case is a complete travesty of justice, I have belonged to Amnesty I. for many years and signed untold numbers of petitions about this case. It is amazing how blind they are being. All this doubt and they will still kill someone. It is state sanctioned murder.
Andrew
When you sent your son to school you should have thought about the fact that because of Troy Davis,Mark MacPhail never got to send his son off to school. But you,like so many others don’t even acknowledge the real victims in this. Shame on you and them. I agree that the State of Georgia should be ashamed. Ashamed that it has taken 22 years for Officer MacPhails family to finally see justice. To have to constantly be reminded of the gutless killing of their loved one who was simply trying to help a homeless man is beyond comprehension. I know that they will never have peace over this,but I pray that after tomorrow they can at least begin to put a little bit of this behind them. God Bless Them.
burnspbesq
When he was sheriff of Erie County, New York, Grover Cleveland acted as his own hangman. He refused to put any of his deputies to the moral dilemma of possibly killing an innocent man.
Anyone think Nathan Deal or Rick Perry are up to the task? Anyone think they even understand Cleveland’s position?
Neither to I.
SiubhanDuinne
I hate this state. I hate this country.
No, not in general. But today, about this, unequivocally.
And now I’m going to wipe my eyes, take a couple of deep breaths, sign the petition, and send some money to AI.
Slowbama
I’ve made my feelings on this known in previous threads and won’t belabor the point out of respect for the sad reality of this situation. I fully support the verdict against Davis but this is surely no time for rejoicing.
I would submit, however, that Davis’s death sentence is precisely why so many people have rallied behind him. If he had instead been sentenced to life without parole, few of you would know or care a thing about “reasonable doubt” in his case. He would simply rot anonymously.
This is why the death penalty will atrophy. It ain’t worth the state’s trouble anymore to call attention to these cases.
beltane
@burnspbesq: I’m not sure about Nathan Deal, but Rick Perry strikes me as the sort of person who would gladly act as his own hangman, not to spare anyone from experiencing a moral dilemma, but simply for the pleasure and publicity of it.
Culture of Truth
Perry strikes me as more the firing squad type.
flukebucket
If the execution goes through reckon it will get a standing ovation at the next Republican debate?
Kyle
Fuck crooked cops and prosecutors more interested in claiming a scalp and advancing their careers than in finding the truth. And the more protests, the more stubborn and self-righteous they get. The great tradition of corrupt authoritarian Southern ‘justice’.
Meanwhile, the teatards would line up and buy tickets to watch the execution, if they could, and cheer for more death.
Fuck the South.
Samara Morgan
me too.
The Dangerman
Don’t flame me here; I really know almost diddly squat about this case.
On the news this morning, it was reported that 7 of 9 eyewitnesses recanted; ok, all well and good, but what about the remaining two eyewitnesses? Are they steadfast (or, perhaps, are they unavailable for one reason or another?)?
Paul in KY
@burnspbesq: It is the same position Eddard Stark has in ‘Game of Thrones’. It is the position of someone who knows how serious a thing it is to take a person’s life.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
The sad thing is that this isn’t about justice, it’s about vengeance. And rarely do the two ideals coincide, but often do they come in conflict. Not to mention vengeance is easier to exploit those who either want power or just want to satisfy their bloodlust, and it seems like you’ve got the trifecta working here: the Vengeful, the Ambitious, and the Bloodletters.
drkrick
Exactly. For lots of people I’ve argued with, it’s well worth executing some innocents in order to make sure the process doesn’t drag on too long. It’s a monstrous position, but apparently pretty common.
AxelFoley
Done. Let’s pray GA doesn’t go through with this.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Culture of Truth:
Probably more of a fair trail and a fine hanging type, both done very publicly.
Slowbama
@The Dangerman: It’s called threatening/coercing eyewitnesses, a well-known phenomenon but a concept which seems beyond the ability of many people to grasp in their haste to portray all white southerners as ign’ant pitchfork-bearing racist lynchers.
This lynch mob apparently includes on an honorary basis the African American majority sitting on the original jury which found Davis guilty of murder in the first place.
Elizabelle
Horrifying.
And in Georgia, the governor has no power to grant clemency.
Their loss is tragic, but the victim’s family, the MacPhail clan, has blood on their hands too. They could have opened their minds and reviewed the evidence in the case, including the many recantations and changes of heart, in the twenty years since Davis was convicted.
They could have asked for commutation to a life sentence. (Maybe a commutation is not possible under Georgia’s laws, but it would be the moral thing to do.)
As it is, the children, toddlers when their father died, were weaned on vengeance and are fighting for “justice”.
They and their mother want the state to put another family through the untimely loss of a loved one.
At the very least, learning that a prosecution expert deemed Davis a future danger to society because he is black, should taint the whole sentence.
I hope Davis’s life is somehow spared, and that some good will eventually come out of this.
Terrible case. Terrible state.
Brian S
@jwest: You can’t get a good conviction if all you’re relying on is eyewitnesses because eyewitnesses are the least reliable form of evidence there is. This isn’t opinion–this is empirically proven. Eyewitnesses are horrible when it comes to figuring out what actually happened in any given situation.
Steve Crickmore
Yes, it does look more like simply a cold blooded public murder, with more than resonable doubt… In fact, it seems probable that Troy Davis was innocent, which is more than one can say about the bullying police and craven prosecutors, judges and relevant politicians who wiil be acessories to the crime, of killing an innocent man..in this exceptional country, where few dare speak up or protest the execution. You would likey see more protests in Syria or Egypt, if this happened there? I imagine Obama is frightened of taking up Davis’s case because of his (Davis’s) skin color. Obama was supposed to post-racial, but I wonder?
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@The Dangerman: One of the two remaining eyewitnesses is none other than Sylvester Coles, who Davis has always claimed was the shooter and who allegedly incriminated himself while drunk. Funnily enough, Coles isn’t coming forward to say a goddam thing.
I don’t know about the other one, but considering that it’s Georgia it’s not hard to imagine that 1 in 9 people would happily lie if it meant one less darkie walking the streets.
Slowbama
@Elizabelle: It’s interesting how many people are OK with a life sentence for Davis. If the evidence is so flimsy, shouldn’t everyone be pressing for his immediate release rather than a commutation of the sentence?
And nice job with MacPhail “clan.” Cute. I’m sure you were just referring to their Scots-Irish heritage, nothing more was implied, clearly…
Li
Well, the President could commute his sentence, or at least force a stay of execution.
Oh, I’m sorry, you’re right, he’s far to busy protecting war criminals from the last admin, and fellating Wall St. mega-thieves, while prosecuting any whistleblowers that might bring more crimes to light. He’s far too busy! My bad.
Slowbama
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: I would submit that I probably shouldn’t take seriously the opinion of anyone who bases their opinion of a legal case on their own prejudicial opinions about the residents of the state adjudicating said case….
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Slowbama:
I think again, the point is that a life sentence for something he didn’t do, while abhorrent, also doesn’t mean that the effort to prove him innocent wouldn’t have a hard time limit with no ‘taksie backsies’. Even if the years incarcerated can’t be taken back, the case can keep being made. That can’t be done post-execution.
Jay Schiavone
ABL, you neglect to point out that the president has the authority to intervene.
Stefan
I propose we start re-framing the “death penalty” as “government murder”.
That’s basically what the death penalty is–premeditated murder by our government.
This will help shift the focus of the authoritarians away from their love of dishing out “penalties” to “those folks who deserve it” and onto their hatred of all things “government”. They already hate the government and think it can’t ever do anything right–why not tell them that they’re right, the government can’t be trusted to carry out such a final judgement?
Don’t give government the power to murder! No government murder!
Corpsicle
@Jay Schiavone: Really? I didn’t know the President could do that.
The Dangerman
@Slowbama:
Well, what Coles allegedly said while intoxicated doesn’t make much difference…
…so we are down to one “reliable” eyewitness; is that enough to apply the Death penalty? In lieu of other corroborating evidence, almost certainly not.
Sounds like a massive CF all the way around; Mr. Davis COULD be guilty, but …
Goobergunch
@Li: @Jay Schiavone:
No he doesn’t. The Presidential pardon power only applies to federal cases.
The Dangerman
@Corpsicle:
I suppose he could, but I can’t imagine him doing so.
Edit: I stand corrected; I didn’t know the limitation was to Federal only.
Alison
@Li: According to what I’ve been told from the Constitution, no he fucking can’t. Davis was convicted of a state crime, so the President doesn’t have power to pardon him. But don’t let facts get in the way of your ODS.
God, can there be one damn thread where this shit doesn’t happen. Have a shred of decency, please…
eemom
I’ve never actually been opposed to the death penalty for truly heinous, proven criminals — but to execute someone when there is ANY doubt is pure barbarism.
ABL
@Jay Schiavone: on what basis do you make that claim? it’s a state, not federal case.
eemom
@Alison:
srsly. Of all the low shit that’s been slung on this blog, using this travesty as just another excuse to trash Obama is pretty close to the bottom.
Slowbama
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I see your point, can’t really argue with that.
TooManyJens
With all this doubt, Troy Davis will still probably die tomorrow. Meanwhile, people who have confessed to — bragged about! — war crimes walk free.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Slowbama: And I’d submit that the fact that Georgia, and the USA, is chock full of irrational hatred of black people is a good reason to never allow a capital case to hinge on eyewitness testimony. This is particularly true when nearly every eyewitness recants their testimony and claims that the police pressured them to lie.
You want them tried for perjury? I’m fine with that, but the damn execution is tomorrow. Do you also want the police who engineered that perjury put away? Either way it can wait until after we’ve decided not to execute an almost certainly innocent man.
I’d also submit that people who use fuckwitted Obama slurs as their handles shouldn’t be taken seriously on anything besides the current fringe conspiracy theories regarding the moon landing and Obama’s Kenyan birth.
Teak111
Witness recantation does not carry the same weight as new evidence, of which there is none in this case. When prosecutors refuse to DNA test evidence, or vacate when such evidence exists, that makes me sad. This case, not so sure what the truth is, since someone divided to Don Draper his execution with puppy dog photos and AI involvement. Every case had problems, many with bigger issues then this. Why focus on Troy, whose paying that bill, why?
AxelFoley
@Li:
You lying sack of shit.
Alison
@ABL: I’ll venture the “basis” is the interior of his ass, from whence that claim comes…
J. Michael Neal
@Jay Schiavone:
No, he doesn’t. The Presidential power of pardon or reprieve extends only to federal crimes.
Edit: Or, you know, what everyone else said.
TooManyJens
@Slowbama:
Threatening eyewitness goes both ways. The accused or his associates can threaten eyewitnesses, but so can cops eager to make an arrest for killing one of their own. In the South or anywhere else.
And I don’t think anyone’s blaming the jury for deciding based on the evidence they were presented. It’s that the evidence they were presented was of questionable worth.
SiubhanDuinne
@Li:
Just go fuck off for a while, mmkay?
Elizabelle
@Slowbama:
Wouldn’t it be easier to press for release if he’s alive?
Second, “clan” worked well for me because of the thirst for vengeance picked up from the family’s quotes from the New York Times story. You say “Scots-Irish.” I say “eye for an eye, and that it might be the wrong eye bothers this family not a whit.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/us/troy-davis-is-denied-clemency-in-georgia.html
Re parole board testimony from the family of victim “Mark MacPhail, an off-duty police officer, [killed] in a Savannah parking lot in 1989”:
The MacPhail children were in diapers when their father died. Nothing can bring him back, but why visit this loss on another family, particularly after recantation after recantation.
I cannot believe they want execution, with all the questions raised.
Clan they are.
Svensker
Signed. Praying. Crying.
denvercook
One of the two witnesses is the individual that is probably the shooter. The seven witnesses pointed the finger at Davis out of fear of Coles and allegedly Coles incriminated himself, bragging about getting away with the murder.
The remaining eye-witness never identified Davis as the shooter or anyone as the shooter b/c it was too dark. So that witness has nothing to recant.
The whole thing is shameful. Sylvester Coles walks free. Tragedy for the victim. Tragedy for Troy Davis, now a second victim.
Slowbama
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: Please explain further this concept of tweaking the justice system based on the races of those involved.
Does this mean if a white guy shoots a black cop there is less angst over his death sentence? What about the case of a mixed race perpetrator and/or victim? If the murder happens in say Iowa or Vermont, then the cops and juries and judges and prosecutors don’t then constitute a racist lynch mob, as they inevitably do in the hated, degraded South? Fascinating.
Oh the perils and endless entertainment value of identity politics…
Li
I had forgotten that this murder was not prosecuted under federal statutes, but rather state ones. The duplication of crimes between statues makes it hard to keep track which one someone was prosecuted under sometimes. Please do forgive me.
Everything else I said stands, however. And; federal civil rights statutes might have something to say about a case like this in a place like Georgia. But, agency is to be denied our President in all cases, under all circumstances, except when it comes to prosecuting whistleblowers. I forgot the rules of debate here, I’m sorry.
Robert Green
the macphails are the worst of humanity perfectly encapsulated, people whose hatred and blind trust of authority are more important than reality. that they would visit the SAME FUCKING CRIME on another family that was visited upon them shows that they are empty of sanity or empathy.
Elizabelle
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/nyregion/in-new-jersey-rules-changed-on-witness-ids.html?ref=opinion
The state of Georgia is taking too much of a risk in executing this man.
Elizabelle
@Robert Green:
Twenty years is a long time.
That the MacPhails remain bent on revenge says a lot about them. We can say they are blinded by grief, or just blind.
Justice tempered with mercy would work well here.
Samara Morgan
you see ABL…..better 99 guilty men go free than one innocent man should suffer only works for whiteppls.
j low
As a sometime Obama critic, all you Obama critics sayin’ he should intervene are making Obama critics look stoopid.
Li
“Just go fuck off for a while, mmkay?”
No.
Elizabelle
From the Atlanta Journal Constitution:
“It’s the wrong decision,” said one of Davis’ attorneys, Jason Ewart. “It’s a mistake.”
He said the five-member board ended its presentation after three hours while the other side — prosecutors and the MacPhail family — was given at least four hours.
“It sounds like they [prosecutors and family members] just brow beat them [the board],” Ewart said.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/parole-board-denies-clemency-1184933.html
Steve Crickmore
Obama could still voice an opinion on this case, but don´t hold your breath, but it might bring some weight. After all, he was proud of his work in overhauling the Illinois death penalty system. When speaking about in their state senate in Springfield, as a senator, Obama:
That was then, today is today, where he has abandoned most of his convictions, even the straight forward ones… so they won’t get in the way of his re-election and the public´s view of as a tough leader.
burnspbesq
@Li:
What fucking planet are you from? No, he can’t, because Davis is not in Federal custody.
I have a cactus in my office that is much smarter than you.
burnspbesq
@Jay Schiavone:
Based on what? Citations, please, or GTFO.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Slowbama: I mean that people generally suck at remembering anything they perceive, and they also suck at perceiving things, especially during moments of excitement like violent crimes. This leads to eyewitness testimony being incredibly inaccurate. Oh, and you know what else makes eyewitness testimony unreliable? Heavy police coercion.
If you want to pretend that these forces don’t disproportionately fuck over black people, go ahead. Nobody expects any understanding of reality from you anyway.
Grumpy Code Monkey
This is what has turned me firmly against the death penalty. I still think there are (very few) crimes for which it the necessary and proper punishment, but I no longer have any faith that it can be administered accurately and fairly.
Whether it’s Davis in Georgia or Willingham in Texas or anyone else, I’m fairly certain that at least one state has wrongly executed at least one prisoner, which destroys any sort of moral authority the institution may have had.
I have a feeling that the Willingham case in Texas is only the tip of the iceberg, which is why Perry blocked the investigation. Putting down one guy by mistake is bad. If it’s discovered that TX knowingly put down multiple prisoners by mistake, the resulting shitstorm would thoroughly derail Perry’s bid for the Presidency (Troglodyte Party cheers notwithstanding).
TooManyJens
@Li:
Shorter Li: Fucking laws, how do they work?
Elizabelle
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
I think you’re right about tip of the iceberg.
Corpsicle
@Li: Shorter Li:
Everything I said is wrong, but my point is still valid!
Slowbama
@Robert Green: Ah, the real face of “liberal” compassion comes out as it always will. Selective, subjective and arbitrary at its core, and hence worthless as moral currency.
So it’s the dead cop’s surviving family who are the real villains and criminals. Class act all the way, you are.
And what’s your opinion of the African American majority on the original Davis jury, by the way, since we’re parceling out existential culpability?
Judas Escargot
@Stefan:
One of the great ironies of wingnuttia: Taxation is a moral wrong, and never permissible. Forcing you to get health insurance is an unacceptable coercion. But take your life away, as though you were the actual physical property and chattel of the State? No Problem!
Logic. How does it work?
Svensker
@Slowbama:
What the hell is wrong with you? There is a man scheduled to be killed tomorrow by the State. There is a possibility he is not guilty. What is the downside to not killing him?
campionrules
To the life of me I cannot understand why Davis’s lawyers did not subpoena Cole sooner when they had the appeal before the Georgia District court. Apparently they subpoenaed him on the day of the appeal and they couldn’t find him. The judge even pointed out that he would have been Davis’ biggest weapon with all the recanting going on. But instead he tossed the accusations that Cole was the actual killer because he wasn’t there to defend himself.
I mean WTF?
celtidragonchick
@Robert Green:
Human nature kinda rolls that way. When your spouse or parent is murdered, many people absolutely do want blood retribution.
That being said, the fact that most of the witnesses have recanted and one “witness” has implicated himself in front of other witnesses should have given them pause. I would want the correct person to get the needle, not a hapless passerby who was easy to frame.
EconWatcher
@Svensker:
I hope the execution in stayed and never occurs. But I have to agree that attacking the family of the murder victim, who want it to go forward, is not cool and not classy.
You can’t expect them to dispassionately look at the evidence and consider the doubts about guilt. Maybe some could in their situation, but you can’t expect it. They have been led to make a huge emotional investment in the execution as something that will somehow salve their pain (which it probably won’t).
This false promise is one of the many things wrong with capital punishment. People could get closure a lot sooner with a normal trial and sentence, without this grusesome fight about whether to unleash the hangman, which inevtiably will take years.
It’s not families of victims who are supposed to dispassionately weigh the evidence. Judges and juries are the ones who are supposed to do that.
celtidragonchick
@Slowbama:
I will take it over your murderous utilitarian statism, thank you very much.
I can empathize with their pain and anger. I understand it. At the same time, being related to the murder victim is not enobling in of itself. They can still be very wrong and say things that are intrinsically evil, howeverrleted to their pain that may be.
The jury did what most juries do:
Put way too much damned faith in eyewitness testimony, which is always the least reliable evidence.
ksmiami
Sorry – the family will get no peace from this and if there is a chance that Troy Davis is innocent, they themselves will have blood on their hands. State sanctioned murder, well it’s still murder and we are one of the last western nations still using the death penalty on a fairly regular basis.
but sure, Christian conservatives are pro-life – yeah right
jncc
Uh, thanks, Mom, I guess.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@ksmiami:
At least a good chunk of Catholics are morally consistent: they oppose both abortion and the death penalty.
moe99
http://www.pap.state.ga.us/opencms/opencms/
Why not contact the individual Board members? James E. Donald would be a good place to start.
Slowbama
@celtidragonchick: “murderous utilitarian statism” — At least you have a flair for words, I’ll certainly give you that. It’s a great band name.
“The jury did what most juries do” — Uh, no, that’s not what I’m being told in all the Davis threads. I’m told this particular justice system, the one in Georgia, is inherently racist against African American defendants because it is in the South and the only reason Davis is on trial is because he was black and the cop was white. Check around and get your story straight with the rest.
Svensker
@EconWatcher:
I agree with you. I can’t criticize the family for being angry, hurt and wanting revenge. I would hope that they would move beyond revenge but it’s not my place to tell them how to feel.
I was reacting to Slowbama who seems to feel that since some of the people objecting to the killing of Davis are a little het up then it must be a good thing to kill Davis. It’s the “Al Gore is fat=Global Warming is a Hoax” brand of logic. And choosing to enjoy nasty snark when we’re talking about a man’s life — a real man with a real life that will end tomorrow in pain and sorrow — that did not sit well with me.
Uriel
@Li:
Just out of curiosity, could you point to which federal statute you thought he had been tried under? For instance, Is it your considered opinion that a Burger King parking lot qualifies as a “special maritime and territorial jurisdiction” of the US?
dww44
@Slowbama: So, a jury composed of 7 AA’s and 5 whites should be absolute proof that Davis is guilty. Not a chance that too much of the testimony presented in this trial was cooerced?
I’ve been on a couple of juries here in Georgia and shall never forget one murder trial where a young black man, barely 18, had accompanied a white young man in a robbery of a convenience store where the white man pulled a gun and shot and killed the Indian owner. The case had received a lot of press coverage locally.
The young black man was in another part of the store when the killing took place, but under our so merciful judicial system, the young black man, who could barely speak intelligible English, was charged with “malice murder” as if he had pulled the trigger. He denied even knowing that the white guy was going to pull the gun and shoot the owner (that actually was not pre-meditated, because the owner pulled his gun). The jury had no latitude in finding him guilty of being an accessory. He had to be convicted of the same crime that the yet to be tried white guy was (the guy who drove the get away vehicle had turned states evidence on the other 2). In the jury room 3 people, a white guy, a black lady, and I( a white lady) voted “not guilty” for quite some time, although 9 others had voted guilty as charged almost right off the bat. A few of those 9 were African-Americans. The pressure within those jury rooms is pretty much to “go with the majority.”
Eventually,we acquiesced because apparently the law gave us no lee-way in the matter, and this 18 year old was sentenced to life-in-prison without parole. IMO, justice was not served in this case.
I’ve long had issues with how unmerciful and outright punitive our judicial system is. And, yes, the judicial system in this state is stacked against impoverished people of all colors, but particularly those of color.
dww44
@Slowbama: And there’s this from a Diary over at the GOS worth a read:
Click here: Daily Kos: #TooMuchDoubt-The Story of Troy Anthony Davis
The Case Unravels
Over the years, 7 out of the 9 witnesses have come forward to recant the statements they made about Troy Davis, and 9 have stepped forward to implicate another man as the shooter. The following are excerpts from their statements (From: Amnesty International, ‘Where is the justice for me?’: The case of Troy Davis, facing execution in Georgia , Feb. 1, 2007(PDF))
Cassidy
I assumed he was from Alabama and just being honest.
Cassidy
@Li: Shorter Li: I’m wrong, but I’m still right, Thpppptt!!!!
Slowbama
@Svensker: “And choosing to enjoy nasty snark when we’re talking about a man’s life”
Nasty snark directed against the region where I live and every white person in it has been my entire experience when I weigh in on one of these “compassionate” progressive threads about poor innocent Davis up against all those bad ol’ racist crackers (including those racist, white sheet-wearing black crackers that were the majority of Davis’s jury).
I’m glad someone finally feels my pain.
Slowbama
@dww44: “Eventually,we acquiesced because apparently the law gave us no lee-way in the matter”
How sad that you did not act on the courage of your convictions.
numbskull
@Andrew: So killing the wrong man will make all that better, huh?
Did you wake up especially stupid this morning, or is this an example of you firing on all cylinders?
Slowbama
@dww44: “So, a jury composed of 7 AA’s and 5 whites should be absolute proof that Davis is guilty.”
Yes, when there’s a conviction and then 20 years of fruitless appeals, yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying.
However, I think what you’re saying is, “Let him go because he’s black.”
TooManyJens
@Slowbama:
If it’s been your entire experience, then surely none of us would be able to point to any comments to the contrary. And for that matter, I’m sure you’d be able to provide ample links to these comments where people slam every white person in the South and call the jury “racist, white-sheet wearing crackers.”
Svensker
@Slowbama:
Shorter Slowbama: my feelings are hurt by y’all disliking the South, therefore kill Troy Davis.
Whatever, dude. I will pray for Troy Davis and his family. And I will try real hard to pray that the God of Love will soften your heart and that he will forgive me for hating you right now.
eemom
@Slowbama:
good Lord. Why don’t you quit while you’re ahead, you sick fuck.
TooManyJens
@eemom:
Wow, has that ship ever sailed.
eemom
@TooManyJens:
well, I meant it figuratively, of course.
I just want this creature to go away. I don’t see anything to be gained by arguing with someone with a black hole for a soul.
dww44
@Slowbama: Oh, really, so you now sit in judgement of me? Have you ever been inside a jury room where there are back and forth questions to the judge with questions about the law? That is what we did in good faith, made a judgement about the guilt or innocence of the accused with regard to the law. He was in the store when the robbery and murder took place and under the law he was charged with “malice murder”. In the end, it was the law, however unfair, which trumped all. Isn’t that the way it is supposed to work? Your arrogance is unbelievable.
dww44
@Slowbama: No, I’m not. But why would you conclude that that was what I was saying? To pardon him just because he’s black? Let me ask you. What do you think would have happened if the victim in this case was a black security guard, one who was not an officer of the law at his day job? Any possibility that the lack of physical evidence would have resulted in something far less punitive towards the accused. Not that we will ever know, but one thing I know for sure, there is too much doubt in this case to execute Troy Davis. Killing him now provides justice to no one and least of all to Davis.
TTexas
@dww44: It’s the LAW, that’s how it works. I’m sorry you don’t like that accessory to murder is punishable so harshly.
On a related note, have you all lost your damn minds?! Personal responsibility includes not putting yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people – I guarantee if Davis wasn’t a hoodlum shooting and robbing people on a regular basis, he wouldn’t be in this position.
But no, you all are borderline sociopathic with your cruel indifference to the actual victims of this crime who are completely innocent; the MacPhails. Also deranged is your assertion that a man who 1. shot a man at a party, 2. robbed and beat a homeless man, and 3. only MAYBE shot a cop dead is “innocent” and deserves mercy! Cry me a fucking river. Whether he pulled the trigger or not, he knows who did, did nothing to stop them, and up until the point he was thrown in jail had done absolutely nothing productive or beneficial to society. Just kill this piece of trash already.
Chandler W.
Five years ago, October 16, my parents were sitting in their car at a red light, no doubt arguing. They never saw the truck hit them head on. Both died.
The driver of the truck was 21. He was arrested for two counts of vehicular homicide.
I wrote to the prosecutor that I wanted no jail time. No evidence this kid meant to do any harm.
Putting him in prison would never had brought my parents back. The least I could do was not take someone’s child from them.
Revenge gets you nothing.
Svensker
@Chandler W.:
Hugs. Wow.
James Martin
@Chandler W.: I’m very sorry for your loss, and am in awe of your willingness to show forgiveness, but this has zero relevance here.
There is a huge difference between an auto accident involving an inexperienced driver and capital murder, even if they both result in a tragic loss of life.
dww44
@Chandler W.: Perhaps you could spend some time with Slowbama. I really hate to ask that of anyone whose heart and mind are so filled with mercy, but he seriously needs a dose of what you apparently have in great abundance. The milk of human kindness and forgiveness.
By the way, I doff my hat to you. The world would be a far better place if there were more people like you.
Slowbama
@Svensker: You’re forgetting the part about the failed 20-year appeals process and the original guilty verdict. That’s why he should be executed.
Really, folks, I am completely immune to personal attacks. It’s fun and all, but useless to you.
See, I know why he should be executed. It’s you who doesn’t know for sure why he shouldn’t. He’s innocent? Oh, OK, let’s throw those 20 years away then.
All white southerners are racist? Oh, OK. Let’s execute THEM, shall we?
Cops are more deserving of bad things happening to them? Oh, OK. Except when you need one…
Bottom line is if Davis had a case, his well-funded team would have found a way over 20 years and through multiple courts — not all of them in the dark heart of the old Confederacy — to exonerate him. They didn’t.
Mr. Stagger Lee
Almost 100 years ago, a factory general manager named Leo Frank was charged with killing Mary Phagan. He was found guilty and sentenced to death, mainly because he was Jewish(as a matter of fact he was convicted by the testimony of Jim Conley, a black man, who some now believe was the true killer. Frank sentence was commuted by Governor Slanton, and the outrage caused him to leave Georgia, as for Frank he was taken out of prison and lynched. The point? I don’t think these prison officials will commute Davis, the ghosts of the South are hard to put down.
What You Want
@Slowbama:
So let’s forget all the reasonable doubt that has arisen. Let’s forget that 7 of the 9 witnesses have said they were coerced by police into testifying against Troy Davis. Let’s forget how the actual killer, Sylvester Cole, self-implicated himself. Let’s forget how there was no physical evidence or DNA linking Troy Davis to the scene of the crime.
You point out that you know that Davis should be executed, well how do you know? What facts do you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Troy Davis should be executed?
If your proof is the legal system you might want to look this case up. The legal system has fucked up before, and has most likely fucked up again with Troy Davis. That you put so much blind faith into our legal system is the main problem on why we are not a civilized nation in the 21st Century.
ABL
@Chandler W.: Wow. Thank you for posting this. I agree with dww44 at comment 101.
gwangung
Naive, ain’t you.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Chandler W.: Thank you so much for telling your story here. I am so sorry for your terrible, terrible loss, and so grateful to know that your response was one of human kindness. Thank you.
Bob Westal
@Jay Schiavone: No, he does not have that authority. Legal experts seem pretty agreed on this point. Neither, for that matter, does the Governor of Georgia, ironically. The law is a pretty fucked up things, sometimes.
Bob Westal
@Slowbama: You fail to offer one whit or evidence why you think he’s guilty, other than the fact that he was convicted and that you believe Balloon Juice posters to be bigoted against Southerners. I’d really like to see one bit of evidence suggesting that the case against Davis hasn’t completely evaporated, given that of the nine reasons, one of the two people not to recant or alter their testimony significantly is a likely suspect in the killing himself.
Without presenting any real argument to refute the idea that there is no remaining case against Davis, it’s a mystery to me how you can wonder why some of us might wonder if you just want to see a man die.
Triassic Sands
Here is a place where Barack Obama doesn’t need 60 senators. He doesn’t have to use the bogus bully pulpit. He doesn’t have to worry about Republicans being mean to him — voters who would consider voting for Obama are not going to remember this next year, or they won’t really care in the first place (and it’s not like Obama has any chance of winning Georgia next year or any other year).
As president Barack Obama couldn’t simply commute Troy Davis’ sentence. I sent a message to Obama calling on him to prevent this injustice.
A decent person with the power to prevent this kind of injustice would have no choice but to act.
Jack the Second
People would rather let a man die than admit they were wrong.
James M.
You can debate the legitimacy of the death penalty all day long, and I’ll listen to what you have to say, but don’t for one INSTANT say that Troy Davis is innocent.
He shot a man in the face at a party, then viciously beat and robbed a homeless man, with two accomplices, one of whom (assuming Davis did not pull the trigger) then murdered in cold blood a good Samaritan who came to the homeless man’s aid.
Part of personal responsibility is realizing that you are judged by the company you keep, and your past actions will rightly influence other people’s assessment of your character. Davis would not be on trial for murder had he not been an active and willing participant of said murder. He is not innocent.
A sociopath is someone who refuses to take responsibility for their actions and acknowledge the consequences of those actions, as a result of their inability to feel guilt or remorse. A telltale characteristic of a sociopath is the desire for others to “feel sorry” for them, to pity them. An innocent person in Troy’s shoes would nevertheless feel the guilt of association for participating in events that led to the death of MacPhail. After 20 years, that introspection would result in heartfelt apologies to his family, and an acceptance that no reasonable person should be expected to believe his claims of innocence, neither of which is the case here.
Davis is a remorseless individual who will go to his grave proclaiming the injustice of it all, never once admitting that he is the only person responsible for where he is now. He may not have pulled the trigger, but through his actions up to that point he gave the jury no reason to believe otherwise.
ModerationHell
This keeps getting moderated, thought I’d give it one last try:
You can debate the legitimacy of the death penalty all day long, and I’ll listen to what you have to say, but don’t for one INSTANT say that Troy Davis is innocent.
He shot a man in the face at a party, then viciously beat and robbed a homeless man, with two accomplices, one of whom (assuming Davis did not pull the trigger) then murdered in cold blood a good Samaritan who came to the homeless man’s aid.
Part of personal responsibility is realizing that you are judged by the company you keep, and your past actions will rightly influence other people’s assessment of your character. Davis would not be on trial for murder had he not been an active and willing participant of said murder. He is not innocent.
A sociopath is someone who refuses to take responsibility for their actions and acknowledge the consequences of those actions, as a result of their inability to feel guilt or remorse. A telltale characteristic of a sociopath is the desire for others to “feel sorry” for them, to pity them. An innocent person in Troy’s shoes would nevertheless feel the guilt of association for participating in events that led to the death of MacPhail. After 20 years, that introspection would result in heartfelt apologies to his family, and an acceptance that no reasonable person should be expected to believe his claims of innocence, neither of which is the case here.
Davis is a remorseless individual who will go to his grave proclaiming the injustice of it all, never once admitting that he is the only person responsible for where he is now. He may not have pulled the trigger, but through his actions up to that point he gave the jury no reason to believe otherwise.
Deb T
Why is justice so blind in these cases? Why is it so difficult to take another look to save a person’s life? Illinois suspended their death sentence because of cases like this.
112. Jack the Second is right, and so it the commenter who wrote that if he’d be sentenced to life in prison, his case would never have been noticed, but then, he’d have had a lifetime to try to overturn his conviction.
James M
@Deb T: Because justice is SUPPOSED TO BE BLIND, that’s the point – It’s just not deaf and dumb as you would like it to be. Mob rule and popular opinion cannot, and should not overturn convictions. Put another way, if the majority of people wanted Davis executed but the courts found him not guilty, who would you side with then, and why?
There have been second, third, fourth and fifth looks by appeals courts, all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. He has had his execution stayed twice, most recently in 2007 so that he could present more evidence of his innocence. Each time the evidence that was presented by Davis’ attorneys was not found to be compelling enough to warrant a new trial or overturn the conviction. If 20 years isn’t enough time, a lifetime isn’t going to be either.
Chet
That primary voter who was asked about Perry and Cameron Todd Willingham had it exactly right: It does, indeed, take balls to execute an innocent man.
What it doesn’t take are brains, heart, soul, morals, or humanity.