Stays Klassy.
The CNN debate last night was wretched. It was everything that is wrong with this country — including feckless media and pundunces who should be ashamed for mainstreaming Teabilly bullshit — crammed into a studio so laden with patriotic lights, flags, and other Americana that even the creators of South Park and Team America were likely shocked and awed.
Then came the “cheering for Rick Perry’s high execution rate” moment: The Tea Party audience cheered — actually cheered at the notion of letting an uninsured man die if he didn’t decide for himself to buy Liberty Health Insurance from Liberty Health Associates, using his Liberty cell phone:
Blitzer: Let me ask you this hypothetical question. A healthy, 30-year-old man has a good job, makes a good living, but decides, “You know what, I’m not going to spend $200 or $300 a month for health insurance because I’m healthy, I don’t need it.” Something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who’s going to pay if he goes into a coma, for example?
Paul: In a society that you accept welfare-ism and socialism, he expects the government to take care of it.Blitzer: Well, what do you want?
Paul: He should do whatever he wants to do, and assume responsibility for himself. My advice to him would be have a major medical policy. But not forced—
Blitzer: But he doesn’t have that. And he needs intensive care for six months. Who pays?
Paul: That’s what freedom is all about. Taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to prepare to take care of everybody.
Blitzer: But congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?
Crowd: [Yeah! Yeah! Laughs.]
Karoli of Crooks and Liars nails it:
Wolf Blitzer did his best to pin Ron Paul down on a health care question where a 30-year old uninsured person had six months to live. After getting a bit of a runaround, Blitzer flatly asked Ron Paul whether that person should simply be left to die.
Before Paul could answer, the audience did, with cheers of “Yeah!” and applause. If anything comes of these debates, let it be this: Conservatives really believe people should be left to die with no intervention. Ron Paul answered the question after the audience cheered with an answer about churches taking care of their own.
This morning on Twitter, the Paul enthusiasts1 were out in full force. You see, every time Ron Paul opens his mouth, the Paulites slinker out of the shadows to defend Paul against charges of racism and rampant assholery, and it’s hilarious to watch. This time, some Paulite tried to tell me that the audience was not cheering for death of the uninsured, but rather was cheering in support of Paul’s statements generally.
This is blatantly false, as a review of the video demonstrates:
The audience cheered immediately after Blitzer asked: “Are you saying that society should just let him die?” No amount of Twitter shenanigans can erase that fact.
The simple truth is this: The Tea Party is comprised, primarily, of savages. That’s the only word I can think of to use. They are the party of Die Early and Often. They are the party of “No Government except for in A Woman’s Vagina.” It’s so horrifying, that I am rendered nearly without power to snark about it.
Anyone who seriously contends that churches and good old-fashioned neighborliness could possibly cover the expenses of a serious illness, is not someone who can be taken seriously.
Accordingly, and notwithstanding his anti-war stance, Ron Paul is not someone who can be taken seriously.
‘Nuff said.
1 Please, stop using the term “Paultards.” Just stop it! It’s ableist and it’s offensive.
[via Crooks and Liars; image via News Corpse]
[cross-posted at ABLC]
Svensker
Slinker?
Otherwise, hell yeah.
danimal
Well, to be fair, ABL, the conservatarians care about women’s uteruses as well.
Shade Tail
Paul is an ass. He knows jack shit about the Constitution, believes in New World Order conspiracy theories, and thinks the US would be better off with policies that would cause a permanent depression and leave everyone at the mercy of vicious mega-corporations.
And this is all in addition to the fact that men like David Duke endorse him in every election.
Rheinhard
As Joan McCarter observed over at the Great Orange Satan,
dan
So churches will take care of the sick? The same churches that are filled with these Christians? Good luck.
Culture of Truth
Distinction without a difference. Implied with both Paul’s answer and the cheering was the only people who deserve compassion are people who take responasibility and go out and buy health insurance. Seemed very much like an endorsement of the idea that people should be forced to buy insurance but not “forced” to “buy” “insurance.”
MikeBoyScout
ABL speaks truth, & once again, I’m ashamed of the society we live in.
Litlebritdifrnt
When my DH had his heart attack the total bill for his four day stay in hospital, his stent surgery and recovery came to a total of $68,000.00. That is a boat load of barbeque plates and bake sales. I don’t know any Church around here who could handle that. Luckily he had State Employees health insurance but it still left us with 20% deductibles and co-pays that we have no hope of ever paying off resulting in destroyed credit for the next seven years. That doesn’t even include all of the costs of follow up treatment (cardio rehab, follow ups with his surgeon ekgs etc.). Like Alan Grayson said today. These people are sadists.
lamh32
Hmm, I guess the act stopped for a minute, cause Rick Perry was quoted saying this:
rick-perry-on-health-insurance-question
I’m sure the mask in back on though and he’s back to secession & SS ponzi scheme talk.
Spaghetti Lee
Anyone who seriously contends that churches and good old-fashioned neighborliness could possibly cover the expenses of a serious illness, is not someone who can be taken seriously.
There was a recent post on Sadly No where someone said they collected all the spare change they found on the streets and saved it for four years. After four years, they had $38. They put in some of their own and gave it to a homeless person, who used it to spend a night in a cheap hotel. How far do you think $38 would get you in a hospital? That’s probably what they charge you just to walk in the door.
This right-wing idea that anyone in severe financial straits can just get right back up again with the right combination of charity, intuition, and a little luck-it’s one of those things that can only be believed by someone who’s never tried it. It’s a glib, meaningless answer used to brush off serious problems with libertarianism. If you cut into government welfare spending the way the right wing wants to, you’re sentencing tens of thousands of people to death. There’s no way around it. And I guess in a way I’m glad it’s finally out there. When some smug, sneering little libertarian shit tells me that libertarians believe in charity and liberals believe in violence, I’ll just show him that clip.
JPL
Former President Reagan (may he rest in hell) signed into law EMTALA so the question was stupid imo. Truth be known EMTALA has done more to raise health care costs than anything else.
If you live in a Repub district write your congress person and ask if they support the mandate that EMTALA calls for. I didn’t watch the debate, so I’m curious if anyone brought this up.
EDIT..Just so you know I support ACA even though I’d rather see a public option.
Spaghetti Lee
And yes, Paul’s a crank. I don’t know how he got this kindly-old-man image because deep down he is one of the meanest, ugliest souls in all of congress, and boy is that some stiff competition. I hate it when left-libertarians tell me how different and special he is from other Republicans. Frankly, that almost makes him worse. I’d rather have just some average joe politician who may be corrupt but you can at least bargain with than some paleocon feudalist crank who demands everyone bow down to his insane ideas.
geg6
They are who we thought they were. The mask has slipped and even the Village has to be taken aback by how savage humans, some humans, truly are.
John PM
It is unfortunate that this response came while Blitzer was questioning Ron Paul, because Republicans can easily say that it was only Paul’s crazy supporters and not true Tea Party loving Americans who cheered for the death of the uninsured man. Now if he had been questioning Romney…
KG
Is there some way we can just give them their own country, like in the south, but keep Miami and New Orleans?
Dee Loralei
Apparently Santorum thinks we’re living too long, too. Can’t remember were I read it, though sorry.
ABL
@Svensker: yeah, i’m not sure what the hell “slinker” means. it sounds good, though!
Elie
The “Tea Party” is so OVER.
They are so far into their tantrum that they’ve busted up their own fists and arms punching the wall and Grand Old Party Moma.
Its gonna be a hell of a morning for them when they wake up and figure out that they burned their house down and that their Grand Old Party is in the ER on life support.
rikyrah
I’ll say it again:
THIS IS WHO THEY ARE.
THIS IS WHO THEY’VE ALWAYS BEEN.
the only ones who didn’t know this were the ones stupid enough to vote for these mofos.
this is who they are TO THE CORE.
rikyrah
fuck Blitzer for his ‘ hypothetical’.
there was an ACTUAL CASE just last week.
24 year old UNEMPLOYED FATHER DIED BECAUSE OF A TOOTH PROBLEM.
Fuck the hypothetical, Wolf.
use the ACTUAL.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@KG: You try to take Athens you’ll have a hell of a fight.
JCT
@lamh32: Close — he then went on a riff about “especially innocent life”. My guess is that 30-yr-olds need not apply.
JPL
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Who’s your
Daddyrepresentative?lamh32
OT, but as a minority, female lawyer, I figured you appreciate this , but you probably already heard about this…lol. Still, a lil credit where credit is due:
Females, minorities top Obama picks for judges
Villago Delenda Est
Please note that in 2008, Paulista jackasses were in the van of the brief John McCain is not eligible to be President because he was not born in the United States, and therefore is not a natural born citizen boomlet.
Which evolved into the birther phenomenon in general when the near guy became sheriff.
fuckwit
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Thank that’s hard? Try to take Sparta.
stevie314
I say call them “Paulings”.
That way, when you meet one, you can say “hey, you’re a-pauling”.
FormerSwingVoter
Once again:
Conservatives want everyone they have deemed unworthy to die. This is not a figure of speech. They want everyone who isn’t them, and most of them who are them, to die. Literally die.
fuckwit
@rikyrah: THIS.
I guess he used the hypothetical so that people couldn’t drill down into the details of that particular case and try to “granite countertops” (or “swift boat”, or “ritually defame”) him to distract from the point.
fuckwit
@Litlebritdifrnt: Or ivory-tower fools. The glibertarians like Paul are probably making an argument that, if there’s no government paying the bills, that’ll “bend the cost curve” and costs of medical care will come down. In other words, I’d wager that they’re arguing that having universal medical coverage inflates the costs, so that people CAN’T do it on their own.
Which, of course, is a perfect ivory tower glibertarian argument. And, like most of them, has no basis in reality.
c.f. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcjMoihbIZc
Amit Joshi
Understand about “Paultards”. How about “Paultroons” instead?
Trentrunner
Is “leotard” also off limits?
Just askin’.
Calouste
I have good health insurance via my employer, but can you really get health insurance for $200 or $300 a month even if you are a healthy 30-year-old male? As in health insurance that won’t deny you coverage when you’re in a coma?
Odie Hugh Manatee
Conservatives are a bloodthirsty lot, full stop. They applaud death, yell “YEAH!” to letting someone die who doesn’t have insurance and is in a coma, they want to jail, deport or kill anyone who isn’t white enough for them and so on and so on.
Conservatives are joyful when someone they deem worthless dies or has something unfortunate happen to them, it literally makes their day.
Great post ABL! Keep this crap in the spotlight and beat the right over the head with it.
Daily.
PS: I hope I wasn’t too effusive in my accolades to ABL about her post. After all, I wouldn’t want to upset the delicate fee-fees of sensitive people around here!
;)
sapient
@Calouste: “I have good health insurance via my employer, but can you really get health insurance for $200 or $300 a month even if you are a healthy 30-year-old male? ”
Calouste, don’t you know that if you’re a responsible, self-sufficient adult, you should have chosen to have a job, and chosen an employer that provided benefits? You must not be a real American if you’re asking that question!!
JITC
Blitzer biffed the question. The healthy 30 year old male in his stupid scenario could have afforded insurance, but chose not to because he just “didn’t want” to pay the extra “$200-$300 per month.” In this scenario it IS easy to point the finger at the guy who took a dumb risk.
The real problem, that continues to be ignored, is that there are millions of people who have jobs but still CAN’T afford insurance.
The real problem is that $200-$300 per month this year becomes $400-$500 next year, and more the next, etc.
The real problem is that despite paying that $200-$300 per month the insurance company might none-the-less deny coverage for the coma care.
The real problem with tea baggers is that they honestly think that if you can’t afford insurance then you just don’t deserve it or health care.
Health is a privilege to them, not a right. That’s why they compare health insurance to car insurance. Because we all can get by without a body if we can’t afford to own it, of course.
kay
@JPL:
EMTLA doesn’t apply unless the hospital takes federal money, ie: Medicare, Medicaid, ect. Of course, all hospitals take federal money, so it always applies.
If the Dr. Paul family (Ron ‘n Rand) were really principled people, they’d start a libertarian hospital chain that doesn’t take any federal money.
They really don’t have to comply with the EMTLA mandate. They just can’t accept any federal cash. Constitutional problem solved!
Jonny Scrum-half
This is BS. The “audience” didn’t “cheer” immediately after Blitzer’s question. 2, maybe 3, assholes yelled “yeah,” and there was audible laughter from other audience members. But the immediate reaction from the vast majority of the audience was silence, presumably to hear how Paul responded.
Don K
@danimal:
And in gays’ assholes as well (it’s a tough job but…)
kay
@JITC:
At 400% of poverty level (around 43k for a single person) under the PPACA it really will cost this hypothetical person between 200 and 300 dollars a month for comprehensive health insurance. That’s with the government subsidy.
Wolf Blitzer was right on the money, in terms of Obamacare. I have to give him credit for that. His number was right.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Right, Republicans aren’t hateful assholes and never do anything wrong. It’s always one or two bad apples who make them look bad.
Isn’t it a bit early to be sniffing glue?
Maura Cavaleri
@stevie314: awesome
gwangung
And you think your BS excuse makes it any better?
Right.
something fabulous
@ABL: Clearly, a combo of “slink” and “slither”! Works for me. Like refudiate, but BETTAH!
Chris
Please note that those are the same turds who think it should be forbidden to pull the plug. Which one is it, assholes?
Ruckus
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I’ll bet we couldn’t even get that hotbed of libertarians, Somalia to take them.
What’s the human race to do with the dregs? The bottom squezzuns? The foot fungus? The festering ooze?
Jonny Scrum-half
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Who said Republicans never do anything wrong? But a simple look at the video will show that it’s simply false to claim that the entire audience — or even more than 2 or 3 assholes — cheered after Blitzer’s question.
Jonny Scrum-half
@gwangung: @Jonny Scrum-half: My excuse makes what “better”? The assholes who screamed “yeah” are assholes, and I’m not making any excuses for them. I’m not arguing in favor of the Republicans; I hope that the party dies in the near future. But let’s stick to facts, and not make up crap.
Laura
Congrats ABL!!:
harlana
Interesting when you consider that the republican/libertarian meme about health insurance reform has always been that we don’t have a health care problem in this country because anybody that needs medical care can go to the ER and get treated for free. I guess it’s just taking it one step further, letting them die in the ER and all.
We should get to cheering for eugenics and shooting the old, infirm, and poor in time for the primary.
El Cid
Not exactly a surprising result, given the circumstances, but apparently there were no Teabircher spectators to whoop it up.
If there had been more of an intention to it, though, it would seem a bit more like a housing rights direct action.
harlana
Bachmann needs to stop wearing those falsh eyelashes, also, too
Delia
@ABL:
I think slinker is a Lord of the Rings reference. When Sam became suspicious that Gollum was debating with himself whether or not to kill him & Frodo, he (Sam) called the two halves of his personality Slinker and Stinker. Slinker was slightly less odious in Sam’s view, but since the two halves of Gollum compromised on leading the hobbits to the horrible giant spider rather than doing murder outright, neither one is a prize.
anthrosciguy
Where is this guy getting health insurance for $200-300/month?
If anyone wants to say “through his employer”, is there not a catastrophic insurance option he gets without an additional payment from the employee? Anyway, Wolfie is out of touch with reality; his question should’ve been the guy doesn’t want to pay $1,000/month for insurance, minimum. Given the average American’s salary (median income), that’s about 1/3 of his pre-tax pay, about half or more of his takehome pay.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Jonny Scrum-half:
Not one voice in the audience indicated disapproval at what was happening around them. Not one single BOO of disapproval from them. Just yells of “YEAH!” and laughter to the question of letting someone die, that’s all they had.
Nice people. Not. Just like their applause at the last debate about Perry proudly boasting about killing a shitload of people in the name of justice.
Republicans are bloodthirsty assholes.
JGabriel
Shorter Tea Party: If a woman gets pregnant, she can’t have an abortion. But, if, when leaving the hospital with the infant, they get hit by a car, and she’s uninsured, then the hospital should just let the baby die.
Unless it’s an extremely brain-damaged woman on Medicare/Medicaid, who expressed her wish to be taken off machines in that situation, like Terri Schiavo. Then the gov’t should pay for her care indefinitely. But we should get rid of Medicare and Medicaid, because socia1ism.
Seriously, these people make no fucking sense.
.
Elie
@harlana:
In a very cynical (on my part) thought, I just KNOW there will not be wholesale “letting people die in ERs”… at least not before all the institutional providers make sure that they have enough services to get PAID
Remember, (sadly and cynically), when people do not receive care at all, there is no payment going to a provider. Believe me, as much as they bitch about reimbursement, there are a LOT of providers and therefore a wholesale abandonmennt of treatment would mean that those folks would not get any dough. Period. And trust me, with health care at 17% of GNP, there are a lot of piglets looking for teats.
Not to worry. Ignorant red neck whooping in the audience aside, aint NO provider gonna not get paid for doing something. Aint gonna happen. Rick Perry, his Moma and his hillbilly ancestors won’t do a thing cause they will be given a message. STFU – or else!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I just listened/watched the whole segment (again) on Maddow and I stand by my statement; Republicans are bloodthirsty assholes. If you (Jonny Scrum-half) want to excuse their behavior then go right ahead and do it.
Join the assholes and defend the indefensible.
@JGabriel:
What’s worse is that what you stated makes sense to them. They actually believe that there is some intellectual consistency to those beliefs.
Elie
@JGabriel:
to follow on my previous comment to Harlana: aint no way they are going to let that baby die. That baby represents potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars revenue. For all the bitching, they will promptly have Mom (or her survivors), apply for Medicaid in that state (Medically needy), and then all the hospital billing will be taken care of. Without that, sure, the hospital and affiliated docs have not costs — but then they do not have any revenue either. A few of those and they are laying off folks and closing beds.
You get the drift.
And just sos you don’t think this is isolated issue. Hospitals are major employers in local economies. Talk about multiplier effects….
joeshabadoo
Did we really need a third front pager to make a post about this?
Sometimes it’s obvious that ABL is just copy-pasting from her own blog.
Keppler
“‘If they would rather die,’ said Scrooge, ‘they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.'”
The GOP has become the Party of Scrooge.
El Cid
I’m sick and tired of all these whiny, lazy good for nothin’s not getting jobs just because their cancerous tumors haven’t gotten life-threatening enough to qualify for medical aid.
The BBC’s Newshour (on the BBC World Service) interviewed Sarah O’Brien (sp?) who works as a stagehand in Austin, TX, as part of their coverage of the new report on how absolutely no Americans live in poverty and it’s all their fault for not being job creators.
See? That’s the American spirit, one which isn’t all about the greedy parasites keeping their hands held out for gubmit largesse: making sure your daughter’s homelessness isn’t as traumatic as possible during your fiancee’s tumor’s metastasizing.
Hearing something like this really shakes you, it really makes you feel what it’s like to suffer the sorts of pain and degradation that our bankers have when they receive trillions of dollars of government and Fed support yet Obama occasionally has suggested that they have been other than angelically perfect.
G
Alan Grayson was shrill though.
Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) warned Americans that “Republicans want you to die quickly” during an after-hours House floor speech Tuesday night.
His remarks, which drew angry and immediate calls for an apology from Republicans, were highlighted by a sign reading “The Republican Health Care Plan: Die Quickly.”
Veteran Tennessee Republican Jimmy Duncan abandoned customary reticence to chastise Grayson.
“That is about the most mean-spirited partisan statement that I’ve ever heard made on this floor, and I, for one, don’t appreciate it,” Duncan said.
“It’s fully appropriate that the gentleman return to the floor and apologize,” said Rep. Marsha Blackburn, another Tennessee Republican.
But none was forthcoming from Grayson — a freshman Democrat from a competitive district — who said the first part of the GOP approach to health care is: Don’t get sick.
“If you get sick, America, the Republican health care plan is this: Die quickly,” he said.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27726.html
DonkeyKong
CNN needs to start playing the theme from “28 Day Later” to open these debates and when the audience cheers some form of depravity, light them up with sodium colored stobe lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbwlGv9SWfY
AxelFoley
@lamh32:
But, but, but Obama ain’t do nothing for black peoples.
El Cid
@G: Grayson’s comments were insulting and improper because I don’t think there was necessarily anything in the Republican and Teabircher view that someone should die quickly, just that if they need treatment and aren’t insured and can’t pay for it, they not receive treatment, and then if necessary, die, and reduce the surplus population.
But nobody said they should do so quickly — just die without costing ‘the taxpayer’ anything.
In fact, it might teach the lazy parasite and his parasite admirers a lesson if the dying were as drawn out and painful as possible.
28 Percent
Where this really gets cute is that this fellow would have chosen not to buy insurance because he’s a rational actor who studies the actuarial tables and knows that, rationally speaking, it’s unlikely that he’ll come out ahead by buying life insurance in his 20’s (how the insurance industry remains profitable despite the fact that economies are populated entirely of rational actors who do not purchase health insurance until they’re statistically likely to get a net benefit from it is one of the great mysteries of the ages. Maybe a wizard did it.)
Nevertheless, he’s rational not to purchase the insurance and that’s right and good because that’s how neoclassical economics works gosh darnit! Besides which, it’s proof that he’s a true Galtian who doesn’t waste his money by putting it in a pool with the sick and elderly because he’s not one of them. And then it’s right and good to let the rational actor die, not because he’s a Galtian schmuck and the world is probably better off without him, but because the same people who buy into all the rest of this crap also, too believe that by not buying insurance and contributing to the care of the poor and the weak and the stockholders (won’t somebody think of the stockholders!) that this young healthy person is behaving irresponsibly and should be punished. After all, if you don’t let him die how else will he learn?
ABL
@lamh32: thanks!
ABL
@joeshabadoo: it is obvious because i’ve repeatedly said that’s what i do.
cripes.