If the Tea Party had won last night’s Wisconsin elections, we’d be reading banner headlines about how liberalism is dead in Wisconsin.
Conservatives know they have to celebrate victories and brag about their own people, because no one else is going to do that for them.
I know the recall elections were a long shot, and the assumption was the incumbents (R or D) would remain in place, but that didn’t actually happen.
Republicans lost two seats. Democrats retained both of theirs.
It’s a very good result. An extraordinary effort. We should celebrate that.
Holperin 55%
Simac 45%
Wirch 58%
Steitz 42%
TooManyJens
Or, to put it another way, Republicans lost one-third of their seats that were up for recall, and the Democrats retained all of theirs.
Brian R.
Amen, Kay.
Before this year, there had been thirteen recall elections of state legislators in American history.
Wisconsin liberals got *six* Republicans recalled, which was impressive enough, and then got two of them removed from office. That’s impressive as hell.
And yet the media reaction was how “Republicans stay in control.” Fuck that noise.
shortstop
And let’s also look at the overall numbers.
Nine seats were defended in this recall. Democrats held three of three and took another two; Republicans held four of six and took none.
Score: 5-4 Dems.
Would make a good headline, wouldn’t it?
jibeaux
I already read what I’m sure is the traditional MSM narrative as carried by yahoo news, which is that it’s a draw, it’s a Rorschach test, everyone’s claiming victory. I read that and said, Okay. We wanted to flip the majority and we fell just short of that. That is somewhat disappointing if not unexpected. But we flipped two seats and lost none. Two guys who voted for unpopular and unnecessary measures are out of a job, just to spell it out one more time, the Democratic column gains two seats and loses none. The Republican column loses two seats and gains none. How you could in any conceivable universe spin that as a draw, or a victory for Republicans, or….aw hell, I keep forgetting that everything is good news for Republicans.
MattF
I agree. Note that the NYT and WaPo both put the item into the deep back pages of their sites and neither article mentioned the percentages. If that’s not blatant left-wing media bias, I just don’t know what is.
kay
@TooManyJens:
Right. We could play around with this all day :)
My point is, THEY WOULD. Tea Partiers would.
We don’t have to descend into mindless fact-free cheerleading, but hundreds of ordinary people put time in on this (not me).
Good for them. They won. We won.
redshirt
There was a special election in Maine yesterday too where the Dem beat the R. Mainers have seen the Tea Party in action and are repulsed. Too bad we don’t have recall processes for Governor in place.
MikeJ
@kay:
We don’t have to, but there’s really nothing wrong with a bit of it, in moderation. Why is it Democrats can’t just bust loose with a bit of “we won, nyah nyah” now and then?
kay
@MattF:
Okay, but why do we need them to validate it? Conservatives wouldn’t wait around for an atta boy from the WaPo. They’d be busy congratulating each other, LOUDLY, and declaring a permanent Tea Party majority.
How much of this has to do with us?
MattF
@kay:
That’s a fair point. I’ve wondered about how the old saw about not getting into an argument with anyone who buys ink by the barrel should be modified in the modern world of today. These days, anyone can buy a barrel of pixels– but the right wing seems to be better at spreading them around.
Josie
@kay: You are right, Kay. We tend to think that the msm should back us up. That is a lost cause and an easy excuse. We should be trumpeting our own wins and causes, just as you did in this post. If every progressive publication on or off line did this, we could make some headway.
Brian R.
@kay:
A lot.
Liberals tend to see all sides to an argument and wind up rebutting themselves. Conservatives see their side and their side only, and trumpet it loudly.
We won two of their seats. They didn’t win any of ours. Winner: us.
robertdsc-iPhone 4
I blame Obama.
Also, too: fuck you, Teabaggers.
Danny
Exactly.
Xecky Gilchrist
I’m curious to see now – since the Redoublechins have retained the majority – what the terrible terrible retribution will be for the Democrats’ daring to challenge their authoritah. Because you know this bunch is a pack of twisted, vindictive pissants that will rage with forehead veins a-poppin’.
zzyzx
One more thing to factor is that the recalls all happened on Republican turf and we still won.
kay
@MattF:
I whine about media coverage constantly, but there is a victim aspect to it that I’m not sure is a great way to go through life.
Particularly as we’re constantly asking people to stand up in their local communities and act publicly. That’s not an easy thing to do. I don’t know why we’re bitterly complaining that some far-away media corp doesn’t back our own people when we won’t.
Villago Delenda Est
Sorry, Kay, but reality does not fit into the storyline of the Village, whose millionaire members are all dutiful lickspittles of the Galtian overlords.
Tom Brokaw once actually came out and admitted that upfront.
Frankensteinbeck
I try to avoid being petty, but just this once I’m going to make a prediction:
Reality Check: ‘It’s only a flesh wound.’
Caz: ‘There is no spoo- I mean, recall.’
Shawn in ShowMe
@kay:
In this case, all of it. It seems that liberals are hard-wired to care about what people think. That’s an asset when applied to governance but when it’s time to toot our own horn — not so much.
Danny
@kay:
Agreed. It’s more constructive to focus on what we can do. Including how we can more effectively put pressure on the MSM to be less biased in their reporting. Conservatives carp at the media too, but they do it in a public “we represent the real america, we’re gonna call you and stop buying your products” way. Being vocally and openly proud about this win for middle class Wisconsin is a good first step.
Butch
Still, what are those 40-odd percent of the voters thinking? Seriously. One of the races was pretty distant geographically and it was hard to follow from here, but in the closer one there was absolutely nothing to like about Simac.
lllphd
kay, could not agree more, and you guys should be lauded and thanked for your fund-raising efforts on behalf of this cause.
so, bravo on that! and to the WI dems on their victories.
meanwhile, tho, it seems the state is suffering recall fatigue, and (via TPM) may not be able to garner enough passion to recall the walker dude. unless, that is, feingold runs!
so those out there with the inclination should be considering promotion of that effort; seems perfect to me.
Waldo
Eh. Might as well celebrate. The villagers would be calling it a draw even if the Dems had flipped the Senate by winning 3 of 6 GOP seats. That’s a 50-50 split, dontcha know.
louise
My family has spent time — and lived part time — in Vilas County for 50 years. The county paper, which comes out twice a week, is far right wingnut. The guy who writes the editorials also writes the front page “articles” and it’s hard to tell which is which.
So when I was up there in July and saw the editorial page filled with not one, not two, but four letters bemoaning the idiocy of Kim Simac, it was a sign from heaven that the Tea Party can’t be long for this world. Of course the following week’s pages had angry letters from wing nuts, cancelling their subscriptions over that blatant display of free speech, but the die was cast. If the crazies get a chance to fully air their crazy, sane people will respond.
Sooner rather than later, please.
Mnemosyne
I understand why Republicans and the MSM don’t give any credit to Democrats, but I really don’t get why people who claim to be on the left insist on running down every single achievement by Dems. And this was a big achievement, taking two seats away and retaining all of ours.
Weirdest part is that they’re the exact same people who complain about “Defeat-o-crats.”
garage mahal
Heartening to see SD-12, which went for Walker, go big for Holperin. Gives me hope. Oneida Cty (the County Seat) represented with presidential year turnout.
kay
@louise:
Thanks. I love those local stories. I’m to the point where I’m close to only trusting actual eye-witness accounts :)
I know they’re anecdotal, but at least they’re true.
eric
Many on the Left don’t want to laud institutional dem victories because they perceive that they are then perceived as mindless parrty loyalists by their Leftist colleagues.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne:
I agree this was a huge victory for Dems, and was a serious slap in the face to the teatards.
But, as I said before, this does not fit with the preset storyline of the Village. Democratic victories (like in upstate NY House districts that have been GOP since the Civil War) just don’t fit in with the Village narrative. Republican victories, on the other hand, do fit in with the preset Village storyline.
In the weeks prior to those elections, all we heard about from the Village was the teatard insurgency, and what a huge effect it would have everywhere. After the teatards are put in their place by actual election results, not the masturbatory fantasies of Villagers, we hear nothing about those elections. Not a word. Its as if they did not happen…because again we hear about the teatard insurgency in another district.
My nym says it all.
cleek
@Mnemosyne:
times like these, i find refuge in the barely intelligible lyrics of Stereolab. this time, it’s “The Noise of Carpets”:
I hate to see your broken face
This world would give you anything
As long as you will want to
As long as you will want to
I hate your state of hopelessness
And that vain articulateness
Your loser-type wreck wanna-be
Not a pretty sight really
In another world it’d be funny
I hate to see your broken face
A lazy life of fatal waste
Of fashionable cynicism
The poison they want you to drink
—
fashionable cynicism indeed.
Danny
@Mnemosyne:
They’re aiming to be Complainer in Chief. It doesnt matter what you complain about. If you’re the first to complain or the one who complain the loudest, then you’re ipso facto the raddest of the rad and the progressivest of progressives. Get with the program.
Frankensteinbeck
@eric:
Never forget that our side has its own share of Tea Party mentalities. Conspiracy theorists, outrage addicts, and people who don’t care about truth, only truthiness. It’s just a (vast) difference of scale. We have just enough that they poison our discourse with commonly accepted lies. They’ve cultivated the nuts for years, and now have so many they dominate the primary.
kay
@eric:
Okay, again, but: there are real (volunteer) people working on these things, and real people require recognition, if only occasionally.
Looking at everything from 30,000 feet is sort of detached, is it not, if what we’re after is citizen action to replace (or displace) some of the money choking the system?
Grass roots is tangible. It’s not a theory.
shortstop
@Mnemosyne: Honestly, most of them don’t understand the political process. They have no idea how things work.
I’m dealing with a FB friend right now who wants Obama primaried if we don’t get a “national amendment” that guarantees equal marriage in all states. A little probing revealed that he has no idea that a constitutional amendment requires a 2/3 vote in both houses followed by 3/4 ratification by states. My comment that Obama can’t do this by fiat got the response, “Apparently not,” leading me to suspect that he also doesn’t know what “fiat” means. He then switched to “heroic LBJ” comparisons, revealing that a) he doesn’t understand the differences between LBJ’s Congress and this one, and b) he has no idea that the Civil Rights Act was not a constitutional amendment. A moment later, he showed that he doesn’t know what DOMA actually is, how it can be overturned or the fact that Obama has (finally) spoken out against it and declined to defend it in court.
And this is an educated person who follows the news reasonably closely. Arrrggggh.
gnomedad
@Frankensteinbeck:
“Look, you bloody fools, you lost two seats!”
“No, we didn’t!”
Joel
The media has been conspicuously silent on the recalls, haven’t they.
kay
@eric:
And, just to be clear, I personally did not one thing. I didn’t even raise money on this site, so this isn’t “personal” in that sense for me.
But I watched the results come in and I was pulling for them. And I go to TPM and see “Dems hold on”. Ten points is not “holding on”. Ten points is an unequivocal win. I love TPM, I read it all the time, but for Christ’s sake. Throw them a bone on Wisconsin and admit that they won. Just give them that. Why so stingy with praise?
louise
Kay, I agree about wanting first-hand info. That’s why I posted it. I so rarely have a front row seat!
eric
Kay, I agree, but these are often people that will remind you Obama is not a real liberal or why legislation is imperfect even when it is a damn fine win for a modestly progressive agenda. They don’t like being perceived as lauding the Party as an Institution or the Person because they perceive that they are implicitly approving of the Party or the Person in toto.
wrb
It would be irresponsible to to take time celebrate with Obama still needing so much correction.
Scott
On the bright side, there’s some indications that polling may go very, very hard against the teabaggers nationwide. I mean, atheists are out-polling them…
MikeJ
@eric:
And nothing could be worse than being called loyal.
Dr. Squid
@Brian R.: It’s not just the media reaction: it’s the manic progressive reaction. They seem to want to slit their wrists lengthwise because they didn’t get everything we want.
I think sending a message that a vote for anti-people policies has nearly immediate consequences is a big victory. And that that was a very awkwardly constructed sentence. Start again.
A message was sent: A vote for anti-people policies has immediate consequences. That’s a big victory. Why can’t manic progressives see that?
Martin
LA Times frontpage:
Sigh. Obama sat down, report that he refuses to stand! Obama is standing, report that he refuses to sit!
the fenian
A question — is it possible that the recall elections drained off enough of the energy out there to make the recall of Walker himself an impossibility? The numbers on that don’t look at all good now. Don’t know. Just asking.
Danny
@Frankensteinbeck:
But the crazies on the other side are focused on attacking us, our ideas, and our policies. The crazies on our side are focused at attacking people on our team over perceived insufficient kosher-ness.
(Sure, the teabaggers primaried a few RINOs in 2010, but there was never a rebellion against GWB during his term for all the talk of him being a faux conservative after the fact. All the conservative outlets were shrills for Dubya until the very end. If someone like Hamsher was tolerated within movement conservatism in 2007, i sure did miss it….)
Danny
@the fenian:
It was 47 in favor and 50 against in some poll, that’s the worst I’ve seen. We only need enough people in favor to get signatures, right? After that recall is gonna happen, and then it’s down to whether people prefer Walker over the alternative…
Derf
What the heck is with this cup half full talk on baboon juice. You are going to hurt Chicken Little Coles feelings.
jibeaux
Bill Maher had a great riff on the need for left wing teabaggers. Included some kind of line about how we needed a group of people who could say, “you think you’re crazy? We’re a dog that can bark at a pine cone for nine straight days.” I can’t say I’m absolutely sure what his point was, but it was funny.
rikryah
yeah
good news all the way
kay
@jibeaux:
Well, I don’t want to turn into them, delusional.
But. Ten points is a huge margin. Why not just say that? if it went the other way Wisconsins Democrats would have gotten absolutely slaughtered in national media, so why not just take the win?
Or does the WaPo have to hand it to us? Because they aren’t going to do that. Ever. No one ever does that. “on careful consideration, I must say Wisconsin Democrats and others did a very good job”. Why would media say that? Because they’re “fair”? Because they’re good people?
Elie
@Martin:
Amen….
Congrats to Wisconsinites and to our progressive hopes to discredit and push back the excesses of the tea party and its and Walker’s desire to destroy collective bargaining…
Linda Featheringill
@Scott:
From The Economist:
I didn’t the original numbers in a [very] quick search, but that looks zehr interessant.
Yutsano
@Linda Featheringill: Teh overreach, it has been achieved.
Bill Murray
@eric: well it’s good that you aren’t using this to complain about people you disagree with like you accuse them of.
Villago Delenda Est
@Martin:
I believe Toles already covered this.
Martin
@Villago Delenda Est: Yeah, just surprising to see it so immediately reinforced.
Rihilism
@Martin: Who are these “Democrats”? Did they at least name names or did they do a quick poll at an Applebeelzebub’s?…
Dennis SGMM
A question for anyone who knows the answer: Did the national Democratic party assist the Wisconsin folks in any way or was this strictly a win for the grass roots?
drkrick
@Frankensteinbeck:
Of course. But the difference in scale is key – our fringe is our fringe, their fringe is setting their agenda. The GOP has allowed themselves to be taken over by their most bigoted and theocratic elements (see this report summarized in the NYT: ), a development that will either crash the party electorally or the country if they manage to ride economic despair into office anyway.
EDIT: apparently haven’t quite mastered the link button …
Derf
@jibeaux: You hit the nail on the head. The part about Maher not being funny that is.
He does swing for the fences though and once in a blue moon he gets lucky with the odd zinger.
Still think he is a douche bag.
kay
@Dennis SGMM:
One of my sisters is an OFA volunteer and she made calls into Wisconsin. She lives in New York.
In Ohio, the unions (AFL-CIO are who we are working with locally) specifically and vehemently do not want national Dem involvement. That’s what I was told. They think it hurts them with GOP and independent union members.
They polled, and a “partisan identifier” on the collective bargaining issue hurts them. I agree with that decision. Some of the people who signed my petition in Ohio are Republicans. I know them.
M-Pop
As a pundit noted the other day, Walker is throwing his fellow Republicans under the bus; he didn’t help them in any overt way to retain their seats during the recalls. I am sure the remaining Republican legislature is looking around and not seeing any support coming from the governor’s office. That could tip things in the Dems’ favor during the next battle over worker’s rights.
TooManyJens
@Scott: I do so love being part of a group against whose unpopularity others are measured.
That said, I can still enjoy the fact that even us godless heathens are outpolling the Tea Party.
kay
@Dennis SGMM:
I think we have to grapple with the fact that many union members are Republicans. It’s something like 40-45% in midwest states.
Not just midwest states, either. Scott Brown in Massachusetts would not have won but for union households voting for him. It’s just a fact. If they’ll split with the GOP on working class/middle class issues, but won’t make the jump to “liberal” or even “Democrat” I can live with that.
NonyNony
@kay:
This is completely believable – if it becomes “partisan” then it becomes part of the “football game” and people start identifying their side as the team they vote for. So long as it remains a “labor” issue the teams remain people who work for a living against a bunch of politicians who everyone knows don’t do anything useful.
I hate that that’s what politics in Ohio is like – a giant football game where you are either a Blue or a Green and you don’t bother to actually think about what your team stands for after you’ve made your choice. But that’s what it seems like it is here.
kay
@Dennis SGMM:
Here’s the Scott Brown info I referred to.
I was in a union a long time ago and this “union members who are Republicans” is a touchy subject, so of course I kept bringing it up, not knowing any better :)
I didn’t get much traction. No one wants to talk about it, although everyone knows it’s true. We’re all sort of dancing around it.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
yeah, you can say the lefties who rallied for and in madison, had their hopes too high, and maybe have a point.
you can say that progress was made. and probably have a point.
what the left needs and wants right now, is a win that feels like a win. its purely psychological, but its about the emotion, not the reason, this energy and enthusiasm thing.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
yeah, you can say the lefties who rallied for and in madison, had their hopes too high, and maybe have a point.
you can say that progress was made. and probably have a point.
what the left needs and wants right now, is a win that feels like a win. its purely psychological, but its about the emotion, not the reason, this energy and enthusiasm thing.
ericblair
@the fenian:
Personally, I don’t think it works like that. This was a win for the good guys, and winning makes people want to win more. Losing doesn’t make people double down and go for more; it just makes them stop trying.
I think these results are important. State reps, in some states anyways, know that their jobs are on the line if they start jacking up the assholery.
Woodrowfan
According to Fox, the Democrats came in next to last and the Republicans came in 2d…
kay
@NonyNony:
Right. When he said it, I felt, gut-level, that it was true. People will trash Kasich at these events, but there’s not a real partisan feeling.
It’s specific, you know what I mean? “Issue-based”, is the phrase, I believe.
shortstop
@ericblair: Well, but polling this week has support for Walker’s recall sharply down.
That doesn’t mean it’ll stay down. But it does seem to be a response to last week’s results.
Having said that, FUCK YEAH! this was a win for us, per my comment at #3.
PeakVT
@Woodrowfan: that’s a good way of putting it.
jibeaux
@Derf:
Didn’t say it wasn’t funny. Said it was funny, although I’m not sure what the point was. For a troll demanding more sunshine, you’re awfully depressing.
Mark S.
I was wondering if Tweety would have one of his periodic mancrushes on Perry. I guess not.
scav
There simply have to be a lot of people making bread for emotional therapy in WI by now. Polling might just reflect exhaustion, not any changes in opinion of his Walkerness.
Rihilism
@TooManyJens: Yay, atheists!
the dude
Two additional seats is a good result for Democrats, but the main goal for them is obtaining a majority to prevent the passage of further Tea Bagger policy, either in this term or the next.
Is 2/6 a good result for the Democrats in that case? Does this mean that in a general election there’s still not enough support for a majority?
It’s nice to win a battle, but how goes the war?
Dennis SGMM
@kay:
Thank you! And re-doubled congratulations to all involved; they did it the hard way. Looks to me as though the Wisconsites ran a very thoughtful operation.
Makewi
The left is happy, the right is happy and the taxpayers of Wisconsin are seeing the effects of Walkers changes. A win for everyone! Well, except for those who have spent millions trying to stop the changes to no effect.
MikeJ
@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:
What they “need” is to grow the fuck up.
Villago Delenda Est
@kay:
Which is why the Village is loathe to cover it in that way. The only thing they care about is the horse race.
They’re very bad and lazy sportswriters, at heart.
kay
@Dennis SGMM:
Union members are also really active Democrats here, but I have to tell you, many of them are not “liberals”. One of the main complaints I heard about the ACA was that they had insurance, they had bargained for it as part of a wage package, and they were afraid they would be harmed by the law.
These alliances are complicated. I think we have to be hard-headed about what everyone wants, etc. It’s a gorgeous mosaic :)
Dennis SGMM
@the dude:
IMHO, the war is for the state legislatures – if only because they control redistricting. That’s not to mention all of the other direct effects they have. Congress has become a constipated mess where good ideas go to die. Getting majorities in state leges gives Democrats a chance to actually accomplish something. Moreover, it also builds a cadre of Dem politicians with name recognition and (Hopefully) voter goodwill in the states. This is going to be a long fight and, to me, it must first be won close to home.
eric
@Bill Murray: I am responding to Kay’s concern that there is too little Democratic chest thumping when there are institutional victories. I am not saying that people cannot criticize the President or the Party.
Martin
@Dennis SGMM:
Well, that battle is over. Redistricting has already been settled and won’t come up again until 2020 when the next census hits. 2010 was our time to care about that, and apparently Dems didn’t care.
shortstop
@scav: That’s true. Plus, all that summer sausage and cheese need constant platform replenishment.
shortstop
@kay:
Exactly how I always characterize Chicago. It’s a strongly Democratic city. It is not in the main a liberal city.
Dennis SGMM
@Martin:
Yes, and the more Dems we have in place in 2020 the better the outcome for us. The Republicans spent thirty years building up their machine. If Democrats don’t have the will to do the same then they will continue to get outgunned, outmaneuvered, and pushed around.
kay
@eric:
I’m not picking on you, but I just want to be clear. I don’t want an email fundraising blast, or some such. I don’t want to credit an “institution”. I know I sound touchy-feely, but there are actual people who did this work, and the only people who are going to give them credit for that are those of us outside media and professional politics. Us. We should give them credit.
Triassic Sands
It’s a good result in Wisconsin, but if Dems had won three and held onto their two it would have been huge. And it would have given real impetus to recalling Walker.
This is a case where good is merely OK and a little demoralizing even if it shouldn’t be (my sister lives in Wisconsin and that’s how she feels). After all, it wasn’t that long ago that Wisconsin was considered a pretty liberal state. After the disgusting antics of Republicans — led by Walker, the head thug — the idea that a majority of voters didn’t regret their previous votes is very sad.
I’m sorry for the people on the ground in Wisconsin who worked their hearts out to pull off an unlikely outcome — switching the Senate majority. They deserve our thanks.
Jay in Oregon
I liked what Athenae had to say over at First Draft:
http://www.first-draft.com/2011/08/total-recallin.html
I don’t think she’s trying to say that Wisconsin Democrats suck, but that they (and we) are going to need to bring out best game to the next round of elections.
agrippa
A good result.
Walker is next.
dpCap
Ugh, it’s still pretty depressing that 45% of all voters are teabaggers. They’re probably getting their 2nd amendment solution ready as we speak.
Tony J
@the dude:
Well, the GOP majority in the State Senate has been reduced to one seat, two GOP Senators got voted out in very Republican areas, the Democrats didn’t suffer any of the predicted ‘backlash’ wingnuts were confidently predicting only a single turning of the world ago, and Walker is now making conciliatory noises after all the Sturm Und Drang of last year.
So yeah, this looks like a scenario where GOP senators in more purple areas will be a lot less willing to join in with any Teabagger lunacy Walker pushes, and when the whole state votes again there’s a pretty good chance that the GOP will get turfed out of the Governorship and the majority.
The battle won here stopped the enemy in its tracks and retook some lost ground, but you’ll have to wait for the next campaigning season to launch your counterattack and seize the capital.
gf120581
Another thing to note that hasn’t been mentioned yet; the GOP only has a single-vote control and one member of the Senate is Dave Schultz, the GOP moderate who voted with the Dems against Walker’s anti-union plans and has no love lost for Walker. If I were the Dems, I would do everything possible to woo Schultz. Switching parties might be too much, but you can certainly get him to vote your side on many issues.
Danny
The WI outcome is to some small extent also an expectation management issue, I think. Of course when people get their hopes up on retaking the state senate and stopping Walker in his tracks its gonna be some mild disappointment at first, before the larger feeling of accomplishment settles in.
But fact is that all those 6 seats had been held by republicans through 06 and 08 so it was never an easy task. Incumbency counts for something and some people are gonna vote for people they know and maybe like even if they disagree on some issues.
The class of 2010 wasnt up for reelection this time, but we still took down two long time incumbents. Thats pretty good with fair expectations.
kay
@Jay in Oregon:
.
“Failed for the same reason they always fail” ? That’s not even true, let alone helpful. Do they “always fail” or do we just get some bizarre kick out of saying that, over and over?
We’re like those crazy parents who are constantly screaming at their kids, and wonder why the kids completely ignore them. They ignore them because it all sounds the same.
kay
@Jay in Oregon:
There’s a difference between “harsh” and “true”. Because it’s one doesn’t mean it’s also the other.
Would I respond well to that tongue-lashing, were I in Wisconsin, face to face? Hell, no. I wouldn’t stand there and listen to it, either.
Not everyone is looking for a drill sergeant. I would submit that most people could get by and draw their own conclusions without a dressing-down.
NobodySpecial
I would prefer it if the media cleaved to their Republican masters until after the election. I don’t want them worrying and therefore actually aware of what’s going on around them. I want them to run off the cliff Wile. E. Coyote style until they lose all forward momentum a dozen yards past the edge.
Tom Q
@Danny: This is such a vital point that naturally the rabid-progs are blowing right past it. These are GOP state reps who were elected in the teeth of the 2008 Obama victory (he took WI by 10+%). Knocking off any of these guys was a feat not to be dismissed. If Dems had been able to challenge the winners from the skewed environment of 2010 instead, they’d almost certianly have won back the chamber.
James E. Powell
@Triassic Sands:
That’s my sense, watching from a distance. But more than that, I considered the recalls to be a contest between the GOTV machines. And I believe that a recall campaign against Walker is essential, even if it ultimately fails. Without the pressure of an impending recall election, Walker & the Republicans will have no restraint upon them.
Odie Hugh Manatee
The best part of a win like this is a two-fer; a win of two equals a shift of four.
Congrats WI!
@Danny: “… you’re ipso facto the raddest of the rad and the progressivest of progressives.”
Yup. For example, Daily
KosAnti-Obama is packed to the rafters with “the raddest of the rad and the progressivest of progressives.”They’re legends in their own minds.
btom89
@M-Pop
I think Walker sat the recall elections out because he was afraid any involvement or actions from his behalf would serve as fuel for the next recall election coming up—his. He’s subject to recall once his first year is up, due to Wisconsin law and the Democratic party in Wisconsin will use everything he’s done to bring out the voters to kick him out. He’s very vulnerable now. Everyone knows what he stands for and since he’s one person, instead of all those representatives across the spectrum, he’s easier to target and bring to everyone’s attention….
SiubhanDuinne
@kay:
IIRC, Archie Bunker was a union member.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay in Oregon: I generally like Athenae, but I have to say this piece pissed me off. Two sitting state senators who were re-elected in a year when Obama won Wisconsin were taken down. The GOP hissy fit recalls against Dems were unsuccessful. Dems didn’t lose. They won.
priscianusjr
@Martin:
Odie Hugh Manatee
@priscianusjr:
Exactly. Of course, that is a fact and the M$M is averse to facts that favor Democrats.
Now if this situation was reversed…
Triassic Sands
@James E. Powell:
Well, James, if I lived in Wisconsin, I’d work my butt off to get Walker recalled. One problem will be the expense of recalling him versus the need to devote maximum funds to other races. If Obama were more popular and we were looking forward to a big win for him next year in Wisconsin, a recall of Walker might stand a great chance of succeeding. It would be particularly satisfying if Walker were to lose because of Obama’s coat tails. As things stand, it will probably be all Obama can do just to eke out a narrow victory in Wisconsin.
Just Some Fuckhead
@priscianusjr:
Can’t let that stop us from having an Obot poutrage.
VidaLoca
@Jay in Oregon:
Jay, I read over the article that you linked and I came away from it with the profound feeling that Athenae has never worked in a campaign like these recall campaigns and that she doesn’t live in Wisconsin. Frankly she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
I’ll take the liberty of assuming from your name that you don’t live here either so let me begin by addressing a couple of the points she’s making w/r/t the Wisconsin Democrats generally and Sandy Pasch in particular.
I’ve met Sandy a couple of times and heard her speak a couple more. She’s no leftist and to expect her to say something like the phrase Athenae is projecting is about as realistic as expecting to see monkeys come flying out of her ass. Which is actually a good thing, it would not have been a useful thing to say in that district. While it might have made Athenae feel good, as a technique for getting votes it would have been counterproductive.
In real life Sandy is the current Assembly rep from one of the districts in the Senate district for which she ran. She’s a good advocate of liberal policies; moreover she’s knowledgeable about the issues, she’s competent, and she’s experienced. She has a base of respect of the people in her district. In other words she is in many ways the exact kind of candidate you’d want to put up for something that is NOT an entry-level job.
However, she’s not about class politics in the way that Athenae is pining for. Maybe some day we’ll have candidates that are — but we’re not going to get them by sitting around and doing fuck-all except blogging about it.
On the Wisconsin Democrats. Until this year they have been, for about as long as I can remember, an essentially useless organization. For some reason I confess I don’t completely understand, they decided this was the year to take a stand. I do not believe that when the 14 Senators walked out that they knew what they were getting into, I do not believe that they expected to stay away as long as they did, I do not believe that they expected to be applauded as heroes by as many people as they were. I expected them to fold up after three days or so on some kind of an idiotic face-saving ploy and come back to the Capitol and vote Walker’s budget amendment through. But they didn’t. I expected that one of the 14 would turn traitor and sign on to some kind of Grand Compromise that would give away the farm. But they didn’t. They hung on. And while they were hanging on, the Democrats in the Assembly were fighting a rear-guard action to delay the budget bill as long as they could. Partially as a result of that tactic, the Republicans made an unforced error, rammed the bill through without sufficient public notice, and ended up being slapped with an injuction. And Sandy Pasch was in there fighting for all the delaying tactics. And all that delay helped us. It helped a lot. If the Republicans had been able to push that bill through in the way they wanted to we would have been thoroughly screwed, the fight would have been over before it started.
So, even in the absence of her class politics and even given their historical uselessness, Sandy Pasch was doing something critically useful and the Wisconsin Democrats were doing something critically useful.
What was Athenae doing? Fuck if I know. Blogging, I guess.
VidaLoca
@kay:
Fucking Aye.
Kathleen
Late to the thread, but here’s an article by John Nichols to help put it in more perspective:
http://www.readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/69-69/7064-democrats-finish-recall-summer-with-2-big-wins
VidaLoca
@Kathleen:
Well, OK. I appreciate the effort that Nichols and a lot of other people are putting into putting the best possible face on the situation. I’m willing to go as far as to say that the political situation has changed, but we won’t really know how much or in what direction until the Legislature gets back in session. Right now, everyone is trying to grab a couple of weeks of vacation in the time left before Labor Day.
For all the yapping about Dale Schultz and what an independent guy he is, the day will come when Dale Schultz will wake up and find that the Fitzgerald brothers have left a horse’s head in his bed. At that point we can talk about his independence with a little more evidence at hand. Tim Cullen (D-Janesville) is about as likely to peel off the other way so there’s that too.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@MikeJ:
perhaps but a win or two would be far easier to come by.