If there’s one Very Serious Person I despise, it is deranged sociopath Charles Lane, who today unloads a McCardle-length screed against everyone who has accused the Tea Party of acting as terrorists.
In light of Gabby Giffords’ vote yesterday, I’d like to revisit his despicable comments about striking workers in Wisconsin:
If the brave Gabrielle Giffords could speak normally, what would she say about these events? I hope she would agree with me: This is a sad moment for liberalism, for the Democratic Party, and, really, for the whole country.
Awful. That paper can’t go bankrupt fast enough for me.
Felanius Kootea
What do you make of the fact that the news media are finally presenting the point that Krugman and other economists laid out a while ago – spending cuts during a recession hurts recovery? It’s amazing to me.
Brian R.
Christ, what an asshole.
Bulworth
I really hate when the Very Serious People are also seriously dumb. This dude’s in the news business. He’s supposed to know about politics and stuff.
Yeah, but then writers like Lane will just go to the latest Murdoch run publication and write the same stuff there. And the New York Post will be our only national paper.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Yep. IT’s allllllllllllllllllllll the hippies’ fault. The horrible awful no good hyper partisan liber-Dems are destroying the country, and it’s all up to the Tea Party to help save it from the scorched earth policies we all know those goddamned Libs just love.
Just fucking punch me in the face and kick me in the gut and get it over with you goddamn cretin. Bad enough we’re already in this situation, you actually want to fucking run cover for the sociopaths who sent us headlong into it AND blame the other party for it all? Christ.
And again, this is the shit that ends up our conventional wisdom. Brilliant. So when are they gonna fire Greg Sargent and Eugene Robinson so they can fill their staff with even more brilliant minds like this, huh? Tell me, because obviously they don’t want any more of those crazy ass evil liberal voices we all know they’re inundated with.
I just….gaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh…just turn it all off, all this shit makes me want to punch myself in the face repeatedly and curl up in a fetal position. It’s just too fucking much.
Keith G
WWGGD?
Weak sauce.
Elizabelle
WRT the Washington Post’s scramble to the sewer:
You really have to wonder if the Post’s owners were retooling it to sell to the Murdoch empire.
It’s gotten so dreadful, so fast. Like maybe 6-8 years, but that’s fast when you were once Katherine Graham’s Pulitizer-prize winning paper.
Which had Meg Greenfield as editorial page editor, and now has Fred “I brake for Neo-cons” Hiatt.
With a stable of op ed columnists who cannot clap hard enough for torture and the coming of fascism while denying climate change.
Know I’m a broken record on this, but I used to literally love the Washington Post. I took such pride that we had such a good hometown paper.
A pity.
Poopyman
Oh, that paper. I did my part by stopping my subscription 6 years ago. Mysteriously, they continue to exist.
Judas Escargot
@Felanius Kootea:
Obama can now be safely blamed for all those cuts. So we’re now allowed to talk about them.
SATSQ.
rikyrah
evil, rotten mofos
Elizabelle
@Felanius Kootea:
Yes, isn’t their timing wonderful? Such professionals.
I is thrilled to have the reply button back!
Jewish Steel
Some cocksucker made the same point to the press secretary this afternoon.
Poopyman
And really, this is in the water–is–wet category. Rightwingers will always clutch their hankies at the mere suspicion that somebody is saying something -mean- accurate about them. No surprises at that. Just add Lane to the list of predictable hacks. (He should have been on the list already, of course.)
Violet
If the intelligence-challenged Charles Lane could write normally, what would he say about this excrement-masquerading-as-blog-post? I hope he would agree with me: This screed is a sad moment for people with brains, the Washington Post and, really, for the whole country.
Zifnab
@Judas Escargot:
Now vote Republican, so we can enact more cuts!
Paris
Terrorists like Kathleen Parker?
and
okay, that second one makes no sense. It is Kathleen Parker after all.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Zifnab:
And they will. They always fucking do…because hey, better that than get liberal cooties on their lever-pulling hand!
The Other Chuck
She can write, and if she could be bothered with shitstains like you, she’d tell you to kiss her ass.
Legalize
The Teahadits aren’t terrorists. And if we don’t stop calling them terrorists, they’re gonna shoot every last one of us in the face.
LGRooney
My sub runs out Aug. 25 and I marked it on my calendar back in early July due to some nasty right-wing screed that was over the top. I’ll go to NYT and see whether I can get any satisfaction out of that, although I may miss some of the local news coverage. Tired of the “anonymous 1 says” v. “anonymous 2 says” BS. Unfortunately, I fear I won’t escape pansy-assed journalism anywhere in this country if reading a “national” paper.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
But they are economic terrorists of the strap-the-explosives-on-their-body-and-blow-up-everything-near-them category. They try to intimidate people because they are willing to hur everyone, including themselves.
kdaug
@The Other Chuck: Yeup.
Felinious Wench
Is anyone else sick to their stomach at the bile being spewed on this blog in the past 2 days?
I don’t expect hugs and kisses from this crowd, nor would I want it. But the vitriol is literally nauseating. if you want an example of how bad it’s gotten here, look at the thread about Congresswoman Giffords returning. It’s flat-out disgusting.
Can we all take a moment to breathe, go for a walk, collect ourselves, and start thinking about how to clean this mess up as best we can? Or is that too productive of a response?
Jesus fucking Christ, people. Get a grip.
Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)
@Judas Escargot:
I think I will have to bookmark your comment. Because it is just totally correct.
jl
I am willing to give up the terrorist metaphor. OK, see Mr. Chuck Lane, I compromised. I’ll call them racketeers, extortionists, and kidnappers instead. Are we all happy face now?
I think there is something to hate besides hate itself, and that is tolerating destructive nonsense in the name of compromise. I will tell a little story to illustrate.
Last night some people smelled a gas leak in an apartment building and went down to the basement to investigate. But the lights were not working and a namby pamby liberal said to wait and he would go get a flashlight. The teabagger called the liberal a sissy s o s h u l i s t and said the thing to do was light up a book of matches so they could see and solve the crisis right now.
The stupid liberal said that there was no crisis right now, and it would be better to wait a minute or two while he ran up and got a flashlight. The teabagger called the liberal unAmerican. The liberal said the teabagger was crazy and dangerous.
Little Charlie Lane chided the liberal for being uncivil and hateful.
The liberal compromised by suggesting that the teabagger light one match, instead of whole book.
So, then… I dunno what happened next. I got scared and ran away, and big explosion knocked me down, and I am just getting discharged from the ER.
So, hey Little Charlie might be right. To bad we will never know how it came out.
trollhattan
@The Other Chuck:
This.
What [not “who”] does he think she is, Charlie McCarthy?
Felinious Wench
We’re not ruled by sociopaths…this is just a freaking column in a mediocre, at best, newspaper. But the sociopaths that are out there are being given way too much power and control right now, and that’s what pisses me off. We’re cowering in fear before them, and they LOVE that.
Focus on getting them out of government.
beltane
Whatever you do, don’t go complaining to the WaPo’s ombudsman. If you do, you will be told it’s the fault of mean liberals: http://crookedtimber.org/2011/08/01/it-was-the-blogosphere-that-did-it/
The teabaggers have a choice: they can either be referred to as terrorists or traitors or both. People have said they want a Ulysses S. Grant to defeat this current batch of treasonous bastards. I disagree. What the country really needs is for someone to go General Sherman on them. It improved morale in the US back in 1864 and it would improve morale in the US again.
Ol' Dirty DougJ
No, if people aren’t mad, they’re not paying attention.
Loneoak
@Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E):
Except for the fact that all the cuts will be back loaded, so it’s not exactly the kind of cuts Krugman et al. warn about. If the recession is still going in 10 years, then yes, you can blame Obama for recessionary cuts.
It really seems to me the most likely scenario is that the catfood commission 2.0 plan will never pass and the big cuts will come out of Medicare providers and military spending. How is that a bad thing for liberals?
Corner Stone
@Felanius Kootea:
Ummm, wait. Do spending cuts in fact hurt an economy during a recession?
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Convince me.
Amir_Khalid
@Felanius Kootea:
Here’s what I make of it. Always remember that this is war, and intellectual consistency/honesty is for losers. Presenting that argument now is a tactical shift by right-wing partisan media that maintains the “attack Obama on all fronts” strategy as well as the “Obama is always wrong” meme. Argue against his goals, his strategy, his immediate aims, and his tactics of the moment. If he bargains, accuse him of caving; if he says he’s happy enough with the outcome, loudly demand “OMG, what have you done?”; if he says he’s not happy, call him a weakling or a fool or both. Finish off with a prediction of dire electoral consequences for Obama and the Democrats.
jl
@ 28 Dirty Dog OG DougJ
past 2 days?
burnspbesq
@Paris:
It’s not redemptive, but that’s the best thing Parker has written in a very long time.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Felinious Wench:
I hope no one’s been taking my crap as an attack on anyone personally and more as stream of consciousness rage, but…cripes, if I didn’t have places like here to vent just how pissed and despairing I really am over all the shit going on here, from the debut bullshit to the death of any kind of reasonable Climate Change/Energy/Non-crazy, non-DRILL BABY DRILL-esque policy in this country…fuck, I’d probably have spent most of the day out cold after literally punching myself in the face out of frustration and lack of anything non-valuable to take a bat too.
burnspbesq
@jl:
Brilliant.
Thoughtcrime
They aren’t terrorists. They are Breivikists.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/norwegian-killer-linked-to-tea-party-and-edl/
someguy
It’s a sad day when you can’t call out Republicans for being the race baiting jew hating women-oppressing literally criminal suicidal foreign policy theocratic nutbag freakazoid nazi terrorist bastards that they are.
Moonbatman
I agree with John Cole that the NRA is responsible for what happened to Gabby Gifford.
Just like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Theo van Gogh are responsible for what happen to Theo van Gogh.
Peace Out The Power is Yours.
Rihilism
@Felinious Wench: Seriously, I think we are in need of a kitteh post…
Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)
@Corner Stone:
Umm, yeah, pretty much For recent examples see Ireland and the UK. What the hell, take a peak at the Baltics’ performance sicne 2009.
beltane
Sheesh, I click to Wonkette for a little stress relief and they just have to post a story about Rick Perry’s days as a Texas A&M cheerleader. Those manly Republican men sure do love their cheerleaders. http://wonkette.com/450507/rick-perrys-critical-undergraduate-political-springboard-cheerleading In the old days, the GOP would have been described as very “camp”. I’m not sure how the kids today would describe them.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Corner Stone:
Yes. Spending cuts DO IN FACT hurt the economy during a recession.
Wee Bey
Love ya, Doug, but can you hold off on the papers going broke digs for those of us still working at them?
kthxbai
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Wee Bey:
If you work at the Post, all I can say is ‘my condolences’ and ‘get out quick before the purge comes’.
aisce
@ dougj
hank paulson’s three page tarp plan.
sociopathy lets our elites off too easily. it lets them off the hook for their stirring incompetence, uncurious and lazy thinking, and borderline innumeracy.
we should wish they were evil geniuses. the truth is, they’re just socially isolated dipshits with ivy league degrees.
though charles lane might well be a sociopath, i’ll grant you.
jl
@42 beltain
What’s with those Aggie uniforms? Yikes.
Perry’s Aggie toilet prank in the linked article would make Perry a terrorist today and get him 5 to 10 from a no good liberal judge.
lldoyle
When these assholes shriek about something, it’s because they worry it is gaining traction. The public is starting to buy in to the “economic terrorist” theme, so they’ve got to cow the Democrats into show confessions, preferably with placards around their necks saying “Liberal exaggerator” or some similar nonsense.
And it will of course work. Someone (Durbin?) will tearfully admonish his fellow Democrats to observe the spirit of bipartisanship and civility.
It’s all fairly depressing.
Loneoak
@beltane:
Fun fact: the only 20th and 21st Century Presidents elected to two terms who were *not* college cheerleaders: Clinton and Wilson.
Corner Stone
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Nah. If that were true then why would we be doing a deal with 100% cuts? I mean, we are in a weak economy right?
Martin
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Um, blanket statements like that are no more correct than conservative assertions that “Tax increases DO IN FACT hurt the economy during a recession.”
The two are essentially equivalent in that they shift dollars away from economic spending. The nature of the cuts and the nature of the tax increases matters – a LOT. There’s a lot of government spending that doesn’t yield economic growth (and a lot that does), and there’s a lot of private sector income that doesn’t yield economic growth (and a lot that does).
Dualing false talking points doesn’t make for better policy.
But since almost none of the spending cuts hit until 2013, it’s something of a moot point, no?
Corner Stone
@Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E):
Bah! Europe! What the hell do they know about the free market?!
Wee Bey
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Not the Post, and that piece is excrement.
It’s industry wide, the shitstorm.
Corner Stone
@Martin:
When do the revenues hit?
Bender
It must be hard to work up a self-righteous lather over Lane’s citation of Giffords after the recent crazed temper-tantrum of the childish, petulant Left.
Giffords gets shot. The Media immediately and with no evidence blames conservatives and Palin. After they find out the shooter is not a Tea Partier or Palin backer, media decries “violent and hateful rhetoric,” which they claim is mostly from the right, as causing an atmosphere where Giffords could be shot (even by someone apparently unaware of such an atmosphere — the media “elites” aren’t very smart).
President Obama demands a “new tone” of civility. Everyone claps. Giffords returns to Congress. Everyone claps.
Lefty cartoonist depicts Obama ordering the assassination of Tea Party congressmen. Media says nothing of the “tone” or “atmosphere.”
Lefty columnists call Republicans the “Hezbollah faction” on a “suicide mission,” “hostage takers,” “terrorists,” and “traitors.” The media says nothing of “violent and hateful rhetoric.”
Pelosi claims something typically stupid, like the GOP wants to “end life as we know it on this planet,” Debbie Whatsherproblem-Schlitz says the GOP “literally” wants a return to Jim Crow and that the GOP plan is “literally” a death trap (proving she is “literally” a mangy, lying, ignorant scrunt), and the NYT says “the Tea Party Republicans can put aside their suicide vests.”
That tone is apparently fine with the media elites. Because, as we all know, IOKIYAD.
It’s OK. Your tantrums show us who you are. It shows everybody who you are.
Villago Delenda Est
The country the teabaggers want back was crushed by Union armies 146 years ago.
That’s the bottom line.
Suffern ACE
Once the healthcare debate was over, you actually saw some people in the mainstream media printing those interesting facts about how much more we spend per capita than other OECD countries on healthcare without noticeable differences. Now that the debt ceiling is raised, they can finally write stories about the debt ceiling.
See today’s Howler for the unfortunate ways gag orders work at the national rags. Jim Nocerea is a liberal hero today cause he’s mad about the debt ceiling deal. Too bad he didn’t write about until very late into the negotiating process and not earlier when it might have mattered.
Jlllygrrrl
Yup, sociopaths sums them up. I will say this is a great piece of fiction writing down to the convenient definition Mr. Lane provides for terrorism. Funny how their definitions of commonly used terms ALWAYS supports their positions. By definition, terrorism is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. It is any act that instills intense fear in people. I think the whole “hostage taking” approach the Tea Party has openly taken to the debt ceiling crisis can clearly be viewed as an act of terrorism. It should be condemned, not tolerated and certainly not justified.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Wee Bey:
I think Doug was specifically wishing for the short, ugly death of the WaPo, rather than papers in general.
Felinious Wench
@Rihilism: Amen. The Reply button was a welcome start.
DougJ – I am absolutely furious. But I’m determined to channel that anger and not waste it. Anger is a valuable thing.
Sociopaths…true sociopaths are not as organized as these people are. It requires an understanding of human relationships for people to work together in this organized of a fashion. Sociopathology is, contrary to the term, not a team sport.
They’re True Believers. They’re a self-reinforcing group of fanatics. They’re the American Taliban. I don’t use that term lightly, but it’s exactly what they are. And the behavior will continue to spiral until someone intervenes to break it. No one will, including their own party.
THAT’S why I’m angry. By not fighting them HARD, we allow that cycle of reinforcement to continue, and it will escalate and escalate. It simply will not stop.
It’s a political problem, yes, but it’s bigger than politics. It’s cult behavior.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Bender
Fuck you you sorry ass punk.
Ruckus
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ:
One doesn’t have to pay a lot of attention to be mad these days. Now being mad at the right assholes, that’s a little harder. Not much, just a little.
Wee Bey
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Yeah, I know, just touchy. Still and all, we’re well to remember it was the rag that took down Nixon, and almost single-handedly.
My, how times have changed.
Felinious Wench
@aisce:
Exactly. Thank you.
El Cid
@jl:
And then the TeaBirchers declared how outraged they were that a mere match was used, that what a real conservative would have done was to use a case of dynamite to look for the leak.
A debate was then had among them as to whether dynamite or plastic explosives would produce more light, and if they should be applied only in this one location or at every house in the neighborhood just so they could be sure they didn’t miss seeing any leaks.
Elie
@Amir_Khalid:
You are articulating a strategy also mounted by some progressives, many of whom are posting right on this thread.
jl
Why is Bender rewriting the Lane column in the comments?
Loneoak
Meanwhile, Obama keeps pushing on the need for new revenues and Pelosi says there is no way the catfood commission will cut entitlements. But it’s all just words, right?
The emogressives really need to put their skinny jeans away and put some effort into getting rid of the teatards.
pseudonymous in nc
A cardinal rule of American political reporting is that you’re not allowed to do factual reporting on substance when “views differ”; you’re only allowed to report the fact that the views differ, and the fact that people have said different things to illustrate those different views, which may — or may not — be full of shit.
cleek
@Amir_Khalid:
i suspect people who have been in an actual war will disagree with that.
El Cid
@Corner Stone: With zero spending and zero taxes, the economy would grow infinitely.
Villago Delenda Est
@jl:
Because he’s a cretinous sack of neo-feudalist shit?
Violet
My goodness the markets tanked today. That Tea Party goodness really gets the economy humming.
Villago Delenda Est
@cleek:
Which helps explain why the teabaggers are so fucking eager to make it into a war.
They have no clue at all what that entails.
trollhattan
@Bender:
[I don’t know why I bother, but anyway]
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/palin-staffer-nothing-irrespon.html
FOAD
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Villago Delenda Est: you got that shit right
Maude
I am tired of the word ruled by whatever. We are citizens and this isn’t a monarchy. It is a cop out that says we are powerless to change anything. We can vote idiots out of office. It says we are victims. No we are not.
Obama signed the debt bill. The US isn’t going to default.
That is far more important than anything else right this minute. Had we lost the full faith and credit of the US, we would never, ever get it back.
The Republicans lost this round of class warfare. What they wanted was to impoverish people on Social Security for a start. They thought they could begin the process of making SS private. They lost.
btw, in Prospect Park in Brooklyn, NY, people are roasting squirrels. In all of the NYC parks, people are eating the edible plants.
cleek
@El Cid:
best part about the Laffer curve (aside from the name):
Wiki:
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@cleek: For the longest time they disagreed that Vietnam and Korea were wars. Would you rather call this a police action?
cleek
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
there’s already a word for it: politics
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): They who?
Corner Stone
@Loneoak:
From the piece:
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Right.
RareSanity
Hate to go extremely off topic, but does anyone have MikeJ and/or cleek’s email address?
I finished working on an update for the Chrome version of the pie filter and I would like them to take a look as well as give their blessings before releasing to the great unwashed.
If you do, just to keep email addresses out of comments, send it to piefilter AT mailinator DOT com.
…and now back to our regularly scheduled bitching and moaning. :-)
ETA: cleek! You showed up as I was writing the comment. Trying to get a hold of MikeJ…
Judas Escargot
“Shared Sacrifice” == “You sacrifice. Then we get your share.”
Bitter today, sorry.
Felanius Kootea
@Martin: The news reports I’ve read don’t take that nuanced view. They don’t talk about backloading until 2013. That’s why it’s even more annoying.
Oh and there’s this from yahoo news.
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
Look people, we compromised with sociopaths to avoid sending the world into a full fledged Depression.
If you are pissed that Obama didn’t singlehanded crush the Tea Party, and you want to go into a self-pity funk, you are going to have to learn from the master- read and learn well from the emo butthurt of Jonah Goldberg
me
The Washington Times is so redundant these days.
futzinfarb
Screed:
Poverty is violence. Real human beings suffer and die due to poverty. To engage in and threaten economic policies with at least one of the goals being preventing a political opponent a second term, policies that would demonstrably drive hundreds of millions worldwide into poverty is, ergo, terrorism. Case closed.
Loneoak
@Corner Stone:
Because every time Obama mutters some centrist pablum 10,000 senior citizens die, right? There hasn’t been a single cut from entitlements, and there are many ways to trim money from entitlements without fundamentally hurting the poor. For instance, adjust the method of calculating the raise in SS benefits to track the rise of price in products rather than the rise of wages. But instead of attending to what will actually work, you’re all pissed off because Obama didn’t felate your symbolic talking points properly.
Elie
@Maude:
Eloquently said. Right on—
sigh
Amir_Khalid
@cleek:
I suspect you’re right on that particular point. But I reckon that the people who set themselves in opposition to Obama in the way I described do see themselves as being in a kind of war — with him as either the enemy himself, or at best as a kind of Neville Chamberlain.
Joseph Nobles
Remember the Strother Martin character in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? One of Valance’s toadies that tried to whip the crowd up to lynch Ranse Stoddard after Valance is shot?
That’s Charles Lane.
Corner Stone
@Loneoak: No Loneoak. I’m laughing because now that the deal IS DONE, you’re pointing to an article where Obama is in essence writing a strongly worded letter to someday, at some point, get some revenues or a “balanced” approach.
Don’t drop some bullshit distractions in here.
GregB
@Loneoak:
Well, I do seem to recall his words declaring the necessity of a balanced approach to the debt deal.
100% for one side is not balance.
But those were just words, eh?
Maude
@futzinfarb:
THIS.
Just Some Fuckhead
@GregB:
Neither is 85/15, FWIW.
Terry Chay
The daily Kaplans strategy is messed up. Murdoch usually buys liberal or respectable papers and then skews it’s news to drag it’s name into the mud.
Svensker
@Juicetard (FKA Liberty60):
That has cheered me up more than anything else in the last few days. Ha ha ha ha. “Go to hell.” Ha ha ha ha.
futzinfarb
@Maude:
Wow. I’ve never been “THIS”ed before.
Tuttle
Shorter: Those libtards are always saying bullying is wrong, but then one went and kneed me in the nuts when I tried to take her lunch money!
slag
@Martin:
I think DeLong and Kthug have modeled the economic effects of this deal. But I don’t have the heart to look at their predictions. President Obama says the deal will be good for the economy, so there’s that.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@cleek: There is more than one meaning of war, and not all of them have to do with guns. From Dictionary.com – active hostility or contention; conflict; contest
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Stories from my dad (Vietnam veteran) about his treatment at VFW’s from WW2 vets.
Martin
Yeah, what else is new? They’ve got full-time paid employees and unlimited numbers of column inches or hours of programming and they still can’t get anything fucking right.
But this deal is mostly hollow. It does essentially nothing until after the election other than require a commission do something or else the GOP loses things they like, half of which they were going to lose anyway when the wars wind down. Oh, and we need to write a new budget next month, which will basically supersede what that commission is tasked with doing.
Bottom line, Obama got his debt limit increase, and everything else will probably blow away in the wind. And the ratings agencies are banging the drum for the remaining $2T in deficit reductions in the next 90 days since GDP was slow last quarter and they realize this plan doesn’t actually commit to any path, so that too will fall on the back of the budget negotiations and further again supersede this deal.
In short, the deficit baseline got moved without anything actually getting cut until after a budget is forced to actually deal with it, and the next budget will likely have to move the baseline again in a large way, and that’ll make the ratings agencies happy and cause everyone to freak out again.
Keith G
@Bender:
But, don’t they?
Felinious Wench
@Juicetard (FKA Liberty60):
This made me so happy. As an “all of you,” I have been personally been told to go to hell by Jonah.
And that is a worthwhile goal.
scav
Is this the WaPo anyone at all is interested in saving? Anyone associated with letting Dan Zak whip out his crayon and get this online is either mental or a deep-cover mole on a kamikaze mission. Guardian Angels keeping watch over D.C.’s streets by night is so bad it’s a hilarity break that everyone should take as a palate cleanser. Only other thing that might come close to taking the bad taste out one’s mouth is reading up on how the Irish work up to a political scandal. Talk about including all the elements or at least making a good go at it (alas! no bankers.) Yes, we’re increasingly ruled by sociopaths: but the really scary bit sometimes is looking at the neighbors.
Felanius Kootea
@Martin:
I get what you’re saying. But the average person reading yahoo news or whatever is basically being told today Obama and the Republicans just fucked you over and here’s why: [long explanation citing economists that was never presented by the same news source during the “debate” with the tea party].
The whole deem and pass thing with the budget means less drama next month I hope.
Keith G
@cleek: You want to put an end to metaphor? You must hate Shakespeare.
Ruckus
@Keith G:
Don’t bother. That’s not his/her name, it’s a description of the condition s/he is in.
Or it stands for the continuous thing s/he does to the truth.
futzinfarb
@Keith G:
Well, factually speaking, they just want to bring about the rapture, which, short of ending all life on the planet, will leave the the life remaining on the planet to suffer in an age of tribulation and torment. Those hyperbolic libtards.
Martin
@slag:
Well, I think you’re missing opportunity cost here. The deal will be good for the economy relative to no deal. I think that’s a given. A ratings downgrade and increase in interest rates would have a similar or worse drag on the economy for quite some time.
And Delong and KThug are contrasting the effect of this solution to hypothetical solutions never presented. They’re arguing that we need stimulus and infrastructure investment and the like. Well, duh, but those weren’t ever going to happen and Obama can’t make fairies fly out of his ass just because it would be awesome to do so. Obama’s argument in his statement was that short-term spending was largely spared so that there remains opportunities to still get those things, as opposed to immediate cuts that would have made that impossible.
My point is that this deal was never going to deliver anything positive beyond a raise of the debt ceiling. Even if it had been $2.4T in additional revenues, that wasn’t going to do anything stimulative because those would also be back-loaded, because you can’t drop new taxes on people mid-year.
So the best case scenario for this situation was a debt limit increase until 2013 and no change to spending or revenue at least until 2012, and probably until 2013, and that’s pretty much what we got. And since stimulus only helps if it happens now, we’ve lost no real ground on the economic boosting front in the near term. Delong and KThug want stimulus, but that’s an entirely different fight and given the axe being held over everyone’s necks by the ratings agencies, I think stimulus is only going to come after the deficit issues are addressed. Delong’s latest statement:
I agree, but what happens when your credit rating goes down and that start to creep up to 3%, 4%, 5%? Can you still afford what you’ve borrowed? Should you continue to borrow? It’s good advice only if you imagine away what the ratings agencies are threatening, so they’re going after the wrong target. They should be directing their lessons to Fitch.
Martin
Thankfully, the average person reading yahoo news or whatever has the attention span and intellectual curiosity of a 5 year old. In general, voters don’t care nearly as much about hypothetical scenarios as they do about how their day-to-day life is impacted. If this makes the economy worse, they’ll care. If it doesn’t, they’ll quickly forget.
slag
@Martin: I’m not going to say you don’t make a compelling argument. But I will say that it’s hard to not see an important concession underlying pretty much all of what you’ve said…I know that the word plutocracy gets thrown around quite a bit, but in order for your entire argument to hold together, you pretty much have to assume that’s what we are in this country. Unless I’m misreading something.
OzoneR
@Bender:
it doesn’t could if its true Bender
Martin
@slag:
Well, I wouldn’t go that far, but the rich certainly do have undue influence. That was really the nut of the 2010 budget compromise – unemployment benefits in exchange for the Bush tax cuts.
But I’m also of the opinion that the tax code has been rigged to reinforce this tradeoff between rich and poor, and just as much of that rigging has come from the left than from the right. Who on the left has been seriously arguing that we should raise revenue from limiting mortgage deductions over raising the top marginal rate? Fundamentally, what’s the difference if the revenues are the same? But the desired outcomes aren’t the same – one is putative, the other is not, and the vocal voices on the left either want their pound of flesh or are too dumb to realize that there’s multiple paths to the same goal. It’s a line of argument that isn’t helping to defuse this situation, instead it forces those that would be impacted to go on defense on the grounds of ‘fairness’. And it’s harder to lay down a neutral argument in favor of a higher marginal top rate than it is that the nation’s economy is fundamentally strengthened from increased home ownership of million dollar and vacation properties. ‘Fair share’ is not a neutral argument, because it can be applied to every situation. Why should 49% of household pay all income taxes? Does that sound fair? So not only do we get nowhere, but we get a backlash that routinely outspends us using the same goddamn line of argument that we were using.
Samara Morgan
it would be bad for us if they were intelligent sociopaths.
fortunately, they are not.
it begins.
oh, pleasepleaseplease let Rubio be on the supercommittee before they realize its a TRAP!
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
well mike doyle has already welcomed his teahadist overlords, by apologizing to referring to them as terrorists. of course, living at the c street house might have gotten slightly less plus for him if he hadn’t
Citizen_X
@jl:
He’s also rewriting the Jonah Goldberg post that everyone’s laughing about. Must be the new talking points that have been assigned. So Bender, Lane, Goldbergh: Blow me, you fuckbags. The only truly good part of this shit sandwich is that you fuckers didn’t get to blow up the economy, as you so desperately, so loudly wanted. And now you’re getting all emo ’cause the mean people actually noticed what you were saying, and are calling you a bunch of terrorists? Fuuuuuccckkk you.
slag
@Martin:
If revenues really are the same, I don’t see a problem with this tradeoff. Personally, I would prefer both. That said, I’m not sure where this argument is coming from. Maybe I don’t get out enough, but I don’t see why a campaign to limit mortgage deductions would necessarily be more successful than a campaign to raise the top marginal rate. In fact, to my untrained olfactories, this argument smells a bit straw-like. Is the suggestion that the left should be pushing both at the same time? Like both a carbon tax and a carbon cap just to see which one, if either, sticks? I’m all for that, but strategically, it seems that people have issues with that idea. Though I don’t [understand them very well/buy them].
I also don’t necessarily follow (or maybe agree with) your “neutral argument” premise. Or rather, I don’t see a way around having our own words used against us. Unless you want to avoid the left doing any messaging at all, that is. But I don’t think that strategy worked out all that well for John Kerry in 2004.
Don
But if WaPo goes down think of the quality news-poetry (noetry?) you’ll miss!
Bender
No, emo was after Giffords got shot, and it was coming from your side, directed at people who had nothing to do with her shooting.
What the right is doing by showing the lefties’ own hateful and violent rhetoric is displaying, for everyone to see, how the lefties are full of shit and hypocrisy, but mostly shit.
To be honest, as David Burge said, being called “terrorists” by lefties really isn’t offensive. If you guys really thought we were terrorists, you’d be giving us faculty chairs at state unis, calling us “insurgents” and “minutemen,” and wearing our faces on your t-shirts.