I’ve wondered for a while how long our Galtian overlords will put up with the debt ceiling brinksmanship. At a certain point, they’re going to put an end to this before they themselves get hurt, right? Josh Marshall says he’s hearing that if the House Republicans don’t get their shit together in a couple days, the Galtians will step in.
The scenario being floated informally now by a lot of observers is that if and when we come to that point Republicans in the Senate, Wall Street and just a lot sane people in general who haven’t come off the sidelines yet or haven’t really been paying attention just say: Dude, you don’t have a full deck, this is over.
I assume Boehner and Cantor have some kind of exit strategy to keep from looking like completely fuck ups when the whip comes down, but who knows?
Corner Stone
All the kabuki. All the Snoopy Dancing.
This is always what was going to happen.
The Dangerman
How does this happen other than the sane Republicans and Democrats passing something out of the House? The Tea Partiers will look so cute in their Revolutionary War clothing as a 3rd Party.
beltane
How will this be done? And will it involve long knives or other picturesque implements of destruction?
NobodySpecial
Unfortunately for them, billionaires don’t get extra votes in primaries.
scav
“Dude, you have no deck.”
an exit strategy? has this lot exactly managed an competent entrance or merely being in the room strategy?
Punchy
What makes you so sure your “Galtian overlords” can actually reign in these shitbags? Ya know, the House still must pass the ceiling raise. Does Boner have enough Suicide Pact’ers (cuz anyone that votes with the Dems here is fucked) to help House Dems pass a clean bill?
frogspawn
At that point everyone should be able to see there aren’t two sides here to tango, we’re listening to the sound of one hand compromising.
Fap fap fap…
Is this what it’s all been about?
beltane
@scav: Looking at their collective brain power, I am impressed that they even have a competent breathing strategy.
Frankensteinbeck
NobodySpecial:
True, but they’ve demonstrated that they have all the votes in whether or not a GOP public figure gets rich.
DonkeyKong
“I should hang; I’m a hypocrite. I ask for sincerity and I lie. I denounce the system as I embrace it. I want money and power and prestige: I want ratings and success. And I don’t give a damn about you, or the world. That’s the truth: for that I could say I’m sorry, but I won’t. Why should I? I mean who the hell are you anyways you… Teabaggers! You’re on me every night like a pack of wolves because you can’t stand facing what you are and what you’ve made! Yes the world is a terrible place, yes cancer and garbage disposals will get you. Yes the war is coming, yes the world is shot to hell and you’re all goners! Everything is screwed up and you like it that way don’t you!” -John Boehner
Ol' Dirty DougJ
I’m not sure! I think they can but I’m not sure.
peach flavored shampoo
@ Punchy
Perhaps by pulling their purse strings, they may be able to get some to listen. But I agree that many of these teabaggers are simply clinical, and have every intention of blowing this place up, rich people insisting otherwise be dammed.
Frankensteinbeck
DougJ and Punchy:
They only have to rein in, what, 30 of them? 24? The most moderate old-school GOP representatives who know that elected office was a tool to get compensated by the rich and nothing else? Maybe throw in some asshole aristocrats who don’t need the job and think the filthy street urchins trying to take over THEIR party deserve a slap in the face?
No, the Teatard reps aren’t going to be heeled, but they’re in the minority in the GOP House. Everyone else is just a chicken. But their fears can be soothed by money.
Donut
Really? You think those two morans have a clear extit plan for this mess?
Personally, I don’t think either of them have a clue what they are doing. All they have ever had in this negotiation is pure chutzpah.
If they had a parachute for this flight they would have pulled it yesterday. They fucked this up beyond … beyond pretty much any other historical precedent. There is nothing in out political history like this crisis. How could they possibly have a way out plotted when no one has ever fucking done this before?
gogol's wife
Donut#14 You mean choots-pah.
Nylund
Since the rating agencies now we say need to raise the ceiling AND make $4 trillion in cuts to save our AAA rating, the new Tea Party line will be that they were the only ones who were willing to do that…Cantor, Boehner, McConnell and Obama weren’t. They’re the ones that messed it up with their too small cuts. The Tea Party wanted to raise the limit the whole time, just with the cuts the rating agencies were asking for! That’s the spin I’m expecting to see.
Reality Check
The Tea Party is owned by nobody and listens to no one except the Tea Party Movement.
We hold all the cards, baby. 1) whatever plan passes the House, signed into law, or 2) DEFAULT.
Ba-da ba ba baaaaaaaa….I’m Lovin’ It!
El Cid
TARP in the morning, TARP in the afternoon?
Corner Stone
There just aren’t enough Tea Party CDs in the country to scare EVERY ONE of the R House Members. Some of those fucking scumbags actually rely on establishment money to buy TV ads and do constituent service to get re-elected.
Now people like Orrin Hatch? Yeah, that dude is done.
But individual CDs aren’t all vulnerable.
Jewish Steel
If watching The Wire (up to season 3 now) has taught me anything…
PIGL
The best outcome would be a split in the Republican Party. The less-insane minority formally splits, votes positively, constitutes a formal center-right party which fields candidates next time. The rump bags are left to whither in the flames. An even better outcome would be the Blue Dogs joining one or the other descendents parties, and leaving an actual left of center (or at least centrist) party in existence.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Reality Check –
I can’t believe a fucking idiot like you actually navigated from one thread to another.
Martin
Hahahahahahaha!
Yeah, because after marinating for 6 months in clown sauce, they’ll just magically get their shit together. Boehner really can’t look like much more of a fuckup than he does right now. He went on national TV last night and pimped his bill, claiming that Obama was too uppity to accept it, and got slapped down today by his own caucus and his own analysts told him he can’t fucking add. Cantor at least has the good sense to mostly keep his mouth shut after Obama told him to go fuck himself.
They’re playing high stakes here and aren’t even competent enough to get the math right, which is about the easiest fucking part of the whole process. If Boehner had any sense, he’d go to Nancy, offer up a clean bill, cut his losses and accept his new role as the Chair of the House Birthday Party Committee.
Carl Nyberg
Here’s the House GOP end game.
1. Don’t pass anything.
2. Blame the Democrats and Obama.
3. Have Obama use the 14th Amendment.
4. Scream like hell that Obama violated the law.
5. Tell fat cat donors that Republicans will cut entitlements if a Republican POTUS is elected.
Hope for the best.
Corner Stone
@Donut:
Meh. They had a way out from day one. This has all been for show / cover.
MikeJ
@Donut:
Boehner really did have a plan. Pass a do nothing bill that he could trumpet as a huge victory. Sadly his minions were paying too much attention and their priorities are not aligned with his.
Reality Check
Obama already said the 14th Amendment is “not a solution”.
Face
This thing could pass the house, and it only takes one senator (rhymes with DeLint) to put a 5 day hold on it. Not sure if that hold is anonymous or not (likely Jimbo would gloat about it, not hide from it). So default is almost certain, I’d think.
How do I short the market again?
Percysowner
If there is an exit strategy I think it’s going to be a clean bill raising the debt ceiling high enough to carry over to 2013. Then all we have to worry about is the September budget negotiations that will probably end with the federal government shutting down for a while. Woo!Hoo! I get to live in “intersting” times.
gf120581
I wouldn’t be surprised if Cantor does (the little shit is probably measuring the drapes for the Speaker’s office as we speak), but it’s clear Boner doesn’t. His tough talk last night was pretty clearly meant to hide the fact that he’s fucked and has no way of getting out of this mess. Whatever way he goes, I can’t see it ending in any way other than the end of his tenure as Speaker.
Here’s what I see is likely to happen:
1: Boner’s bill fails in the House as Jim Jordan and the Superfantastic Suicide Squad vote against it.
2: Reid, potraying his bill as “the last best hope” passes it in the Senate with considerable GOP support (from the few moderates and the corporate GOPers who take their marching orders from Wall Street).
3: The “sane” Republicans in the House joing with the Democrats in passing Reid’s bill, sending it to Obama and ending this farce.
4: Teabaggers revolt, Boner is forced out as Speaker and Eric “God It’s So Hard Not To Punch Your Face In” Cantor takes over as top dog.
Reality Check
My God liberals are delusional. A “clean” debt bill through 2013 is not an option, not in this universe. Period. End of story.
RossInDetroit
Now, that would be interesting. The remaining moderate Republicans (Who could probably all fit in a VW Beetle now, with room for their electoral chances) together with the Blue Dogs as a right-center party. The Dems on the left-center and the TP Fife and Drum Corp way out by the right field foul line.
opal
@Reality Check:
You’re up late for a non-parasitical wage earner.
Something on your mind?
Butler
Well I guess that settles it. Its not like he could ever change his mind.
Carl Nyberg
The people screaming for cuts and no revenue are kinda full of shit. They want to have the benefits of government spending without voting for government spending. So they are fine with manufacturing a scenario where it’s all on Obama.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Donut: I’m finally reading “Battle Cry of Freedom”, and yes, there really is a historical precedent for the mess we’re in now.
Some of the quotes from the 1850s could be pulled from the news today. And the delightfully-named Know-Nothing Party is back from the grave, feeding on fears of immigration, among other things. It’s Mexicans, Asians, and Muslims now, it was Irish, Germans, and Catholics then.
MojoQuestor
WRT the thrust of this post, and Punchy‘s (and my) basic question if there’s enough non-TB Reps along with the Dems to get something real out of the House in time: my WAG is that the Reps who go along will need cover from the revenge of the TBs and (importantly) their funders, and Norquist, Rush, etc…. Should they get such cover, I suspect it will happen (hopefully is happening now) in the background.
I dunno if that’s even possible, or on the right track at all, but it’s something I can hope for, I guess, anyway.
Reality Check
9 pm is “late”?
Dexter
Can we get a troll upgrade? The ones we have is too boring.
Punchy
I would really hope that, at that point–knowing the bill HAD to pass, Reid puts back in a few more tax revenue streams just for a final Fuck You to his House brethern. The House passes it, eats a bag of dicks for breakfast, or bounces it, and is tarred with the consequences.
Comrade Javamanphil
One more time: our Galtian overlords thought if you bundled a bunch of risky investments together you got a AAA grade end product. Counting on them for anything intelligent is probably a bad bet. We’re screwed.
piratedan
GOP exit strategy?
ruin country… blame Democrats… project flaws onto their opponents, lie to the public
who needs an exit strategy? The problem is these asshats have all of the experience of a guy that used to row a boat on a lake as a kid in the summertime, now they’re the crew on an aircraft carrier flying into a hurricane and they’re wondering if the engines on the nuclear vessel run on coal or wood.
Butler
So did Wild Bill.
So 1) Destroy the nation in the long term or 2) Destroy the nation in the short term.
I also love how you think controlling 1 of the 3 players in this should mean you get to destroy the country by right.
Holy fucking shit, he’s quoting a McD’s commerical. And not ironically. We truly are fucked.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Javamanphil:
And they got trillions of dollars back in return. They got every thing they wanted.
Or are you arguing that banking and finance in the US, on the whole, isn’t stronger and richer than they were 2 years ago?
Butler
And this translates into good public policy… how?
We know they will do what’s right by them. That doesn’t mean they’ll do what’s right by the rest of us. I’ll bet all the money in my wallet that those guys have the default angle figured out, and know exactly how they will protect and/or enrich themselves in that event.
That doesn’t resolve our current problem.
scav
well, reality corn chex, most people don’t stay up past their IQs.
Linda Featheringill
@Nylund:
rating agencies and the now infamous 4 trillion:
IIRC, they didn’t specify that it all had to be in cuts. They wouldn’t mind, probably, if taxes were raised or if we sold Alaska to fatten up the federal purse.
Hmmmmmm.
PaulB
I don’t see it as big of a deal for most of the Republicans in the House to change their minds and vote for something like the Reid package. It gives them everything they claimed they wanted and we’re a year-and-a-half away from the election. I just don’t see this as being a huge primary issue, particularly when they can trumpet that they voted for “nearly 3 trillion dollars in spending cuts!!!”
By next September, when the voters are actually paying attention, there will be fresh outrages to focus on. This will be a distant memory.
Corner Stone
The Galtian Overlords have been raking in straight fat cash by getting free money from the Fed and loaning it out at guaranteed profit overseas. Risk free.
Someone please make the argument they have suffered from the outcome of the last couple years.
PaulB
And *way* too predictable. On the other hand, if they were capable of anything else, they wouldn’t be trolls.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@beltane:
True, that.
Carl Nyberg
If Obama went 14th Amendment, would the House Republicans go to court?
If the House Republicans haven’t passed a bill, I do not see the courts treating them well.
I see them losing at district court, losing at appellate court, losing the en banc vote and SCOTUS declining the case.
If Congress has passed contradictory legislation, the executive branch gets to pick and choose which laws take precedence. POTUS said the appropriations bills too precedence over the debt limit bill.
Being that the House neither passed a law repealing the appropriations or came up with a debt ceiling extension there were no clear instructions given to the President.
I do not see the courts ruling against executive power in this case.
ShadeTail
opal, Citizen_X, don’t feed the troll.
Citizen_X
@ Reality Check:
You’re an errand boy…sent by grocery clerks.
slag
Clowntime? You know what your problem is, DougJ? Not enough listening to those who disagree with you. I mean, Reality Check has some good things to offer here, and yet you call him a clown. Is that the spirit in which this Union was formed? I think not.
Martin
Oh, and for anyone who thinks Obama will do a 14th Amendment option, his veto threat today should tell you he’s going all the way on this one. He can’t back down on that, and it indicates that he’s not likely to cave simply to avert this calamity.
I’m wondering on what day he puts Geithner on TV to show ‘this is how much cash we have, this is what we owe SS recipients [tomorrow], we haven’t been able to borrow since May so that cash is all that there is. See how the amount we owe SS recipients is larger than the amount of cash we have? For added effect, I converted the entire US cash reserve into $100,000 notes. You can see it on the table behind me (it’d take up a bit less than 5 cubic feet). That’s the entire liquid net worth of the United States of America sitting on that table, and tomorrow I’ll give it all to Social Security recipients along with a note apologizing that we could only pay half their check.’
Dexter
I thought that Galtian overlords have already read their riot acts and that’s why Mitch came up with his asinine plan.
Comrade Luke
My cousin is a Tea Partier, and when we’re at family gatherings he’s at his most loud and obnoxious when he knows he’s wrong.
I think that explains the huge increase in trolls here over the last couple weeks.
honus
Sure the Galtians can reign them in. The tea party has always been an overrated astroturf joke. A total Fox Media/big money creation. Without all that Citizens United money, you think those hoveround jockeys can actually organize a coherent primary challenge? Look at your local tea party activists. See any brain surgeons or real money there?
hildebrand
No, the use of the McDonald’s commercial makes perfect sense – a complete lack of anything nutritional or good taste. It’s perfect. Nothing, and I mean nothing, could sum up Reality Check’s posts than McDonald’s. Slimy, flaccid, tasteless meat slopped on buns that are so laden with sugar that they absorb energy like a black-hole. After eating one, should you be able to choke it down and actually swallow its oozing filth, you feel dirty and shamed.
Linda Featheringill
14th Amendment:
“I have talked to my lawyers,” Mr. Obama said. “They are not persuaded that that is a winning argument.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/us/politics/25legal.html
That doesn’t sound like a total rejection of the option.
MojoQuestor
slag
For a moment there I thought you meant the Soviet Union.
Karen
What can the Galtians do against stupidity like this:
Utah Senator Mike Lee extorts Congress to rewrite Constitution or he’ll force default.
Comrade Mary
Doug, the title AND the lyrics work perfectly …
Tears on your blackmail
Written to ransom
A point of the fingernail
Says that he’s handsome
Clowntime is over, time to take cover
While others just talk and talk
Somebody’s watching where the others don’t walk
Clowntime is over
A voice in the shadows
Says that his men know
He don’t step back as expected
He’s otherwise and unprotected
Clowntime is over, time to take cover
While others just talk and talk
Somebody’s watching where the others don’t walk
Clowntime is over
Almost too good to be true
Who do you? Why do you? What do you do?
While everybody’s hiding under covers
Who’s making lover’s lane safe again for lovers?
Clowntime is over, time to take cover
While others just talk and talk
Somebody’s watching where the others don’t walk
Clowntime is over
gf120581
Not exactly. It doesn’t give them two things they desperately wanted.
1: Reid’s plan takes the debt limit off the table until 2013, which means the GOP can’t pull this shit again during election time, which they’d hoped to use to try and humiliate Obama.
2: It doesn’t give them SS/Medicare/Medicaid cuts, which is what they desperately wanted. The GOP is fully aware Pelosi and company plan to ram the Ryan plan down their throats next year and use the fact that nearly all House Republicans are on record voting to destroy health care to hopefully reclaim the House. Therefore, the GOP desperately wanted cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid in this deal, so to neutralize that issue (you know, they could then say “Dems voted to cut Meidcare too!”). But neither Reid’s nor Boner’s plan has them, so too bad, so sad, you’re still going to have to take your Ryan and like it, gents.
Kool Earl
I wonder what Reality Check does for a living. Has he/she ever told us?
kth
Josh Marshall’s observers are whistling post the graveyard, methinks.
Reality Check
White House Rules Out 14th Amendment:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/26/usa-debt-constitution-idUSN1E76P1TI20110726
He says flat out “It’s not available”.
Martin
They didn’t indicate that ANY of it had to be cuts. The OMB baseline says that if we reduce the debt from projected levels by $4T over 10 years, we’ll have about the same debt/GDP ratio that we have now. That’s the only goal – keeping debt/GDP at this level or lower, and they’re giving us 10 years to achieve it, so we can go up temporary if need be. They don’t care how it gets done – cuts, taxes, expand GDP faster than baseline – but they want to see a plan signed by Obama in the next 90 days that achieves that.
hildebrand
Reach-arounds for five bucks a pop on Lower Wacker Drive?
ShadeTail
Reality Check is just a shit-for-brains troll. Stop feeding him/her/it.
Elisabeth
Does sound like a lawyer, though. :)
Linda Featheringill
The Galtian overlords:
Why haven’t they reined in the Republicans that are threatening the Galtian fortunes?
Jeffro
The Galtians have been trying to weigh in for a week now, but Cantor and his True Believers just can’t find a way to a) cut spending, b) kick Boehner out, and c) make Obama come away with absolutely nothing (or better yet, repealing ACA).
Such are the limits when the Underpants Gnomes fail to nail down that crucial middle step…or have motives that have nothing to do with reducing the nation’s deficit/national debt.
cat48
Maybe Obama called the IMF for help, b/c Tim is friends with the new head lady, LaGuarde. I noticed they released a 4 page report but I’m to tired too read it (Washpo)
Also2, the Teahadists are giving speeches about giving up b/c we’re broke! They don’t want the ceiling raised!
In the Senate, don’t have CSPAN 3 so don’t know if they’re still there.
gocart mozart
Boehner will be hoisted by his own retards.
Dexter
Earning his McCain points perhaps?
shortstop
How? How will this work, exactly? Is there a step 2 to this underpants gnomism?
Karen
Someone needs to get Reality Check fixed so it can never breed again.
Punchy
Can we get Utah to secede with Texas and Arizona? Sure I’ll miss the topography, the Bonneville salt flats, and rampant polygamy/incest/statutory rape, but it will hugely improve our Congress.
John PM
If our Galtiam overlords were so smart, they would back the Dems. GO would have to pay slightly higher taxes, but would have opportunity to make more money. Repubs lower taxes mantra no longer promises a greater return. Rational actors would back Blue Dog dems and tell Tea Partiers to go fuck themselves. I know, that begs the question.
John PM +5 Mac Allen 12 year (on tab) (shout out to ABL from a fellow lawyer) (I may have said too much)
Davis X. Machina
@RossInDetroit:
The Blue Dogs got clocked in’10. Is there any precedent for a three-party politics with the smallest party in the middle? I don’t count the LibDems, they are, at least in part, orthogonal to the Labour-Conservative axis.
Martin
I think that’s part of their problem. Repealing ACA makes their deficit cutting job almost a trillion dollars harder since those savings are in the baseline. And the only way to get a trillion dollars out of entitlements, unless you resort to more stuff like PPACA is to cut benefits for current recipients immediately. Even the COLA shift for SS would only help a few billion within the 10 year window, and the age increase for Medicare wouldn’t help at all – in fact it might even make things worse because it merely shifts costs from Medicare back toward the individual mandate subsidies, which comes out of a different funding pot.
Corner Stone
@Linda Featheringill:
What do you mean? The DOW is at 12,500 and the US Treas Bonds are all within a normal trading range.
Tea Partiers are the smallest threat to Galtian fortunes at this point.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
slag
take that weak shit somewhere else
cat48
@Jeffro:
ACA already happened on Friday! He went straight to the pressroom. If you haven’t seen your POTUS angry, you might want to take a look at the tape. That might take more time than any of us have. HE HAS LINES IN THE SAND1 Brooks was appalled!
Socraticsilence
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/07/26/clowntime-is-over/#comment-2692665
You know whats funny Reality Check- you actually think you’re right- I mean remember when you thought the GOP had Obama checked on Healthcare- oops, how about in late 2009 when you guys had the Senate on Lockdown and nothing was getting passed- how’d that work out for you? What’s that START, FinReg and DADT went down. Just admit it you’re party is run by morons and self-tanning addicts.
slag
@efgoldman: “Trolling”? Isn’t he just clarifying the Republican Party’s position on the debt ceiling issue? I thought that was negotiating.
Martin
Nope. The middle is where you want to be because they’ll always be called onto the winning side. They’re always the largest.
Corner Stone
@John PM:
After about +3 there’s no reason to be paying for Macallan at a bar any longer.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Socraticsilence
Using “think” in relation to this boob is a serious error.
burnspbesq
If Cantor is willing to say “Fuck You” to the President of the United States, why does anyone think he would hesitate to say “Fuck You” to Lloyd Blankfein or Jamie Dimon?
RossInDetroit
@DXM
I have no freakin’ clue. I don’t see us as a 3 party system absent some calamity way worse than the present one.
At this point I’m just speculating like a teenager writing Star Trek fanfic to avoid thinking about the chem test on Monday.
The Dangerman
@hildebrand:
Recalling the “Reno 911” episode where one can “get a burger AND fries” for $5.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
every body hang seng tonight.
slag
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Fuck off. I’m allowed to blow off steam every once in a while. It’s in the Bill of Rights somewhere, I’m sure of it.
Midnight Marauder
I mean, that is flat out treason.
Dexter
Saying “Fuck you” to the representatives of your biggest funders is probably not a good idea. But then I am not Cantor, so I know bugger all about his thought process.
Martin
That’s the only way I see how they influence this – by telling the GOP what the outcome is going to be or they take all of their money and influence and hand it entirely to the Dems for the next cycle. Not sure that would matter though, because guys like Koch and them won’t do it.
After that, we’re down to some bond trader calling a guy in Queens to make a delivery for him down in DC.
The House is completely off the leash at this point, I think.
Heliopause
But you just said they are sociopaths who can’t be negotiated with.
Amir_Khalid
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ:
Shirley Eugest. It is already too late for Boehner, flailing about to no effect and being roundly snubbed by his caucus, to avoid looking like a fuckup. As for Eddie Haskell wannabe Eric Cantor, I hear he threw his weight behind Boehner’s latest plan, also to no effect.
Killick
I’m almost feeling sorry for Boehner.
I mean, the republicans have basically raised a generation of people who worry more about gaining power than how to effectively govern, who’ve been fed a lot of pap theories and told not to look behind the curtain at the realities. Now he has to get this group of bozos to actually make hard decisions, and they can’t. Imagine all these republican newbies, who’ve been told the ACA will tank the economy, then they look at making cuts and find…it saves serious cash. Heavens! How can we cut around *that*?
This whole thing with the CBO scoring not adding up to anything like a trillion for his cuts was just so amazingly bush league, and you know it has his caucus up in arms. Who know if he can corral the votes – I think it’s 50/50. And if he can, Reid will hollow out the bill, put his in, and then the house gets the chance to either lift the ceiling or tank the economy. And let’s be real, minus the odious balanced budget bullshit, it’s pretty similar – so how can they justify not voting for it?
Poor Orange Man.
Nah, he’s fucked us all. Fuck him.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
slag
blow whatever you want
Satanicpanic
This is wishful thinking, I don’t believe it.
Satanicpanic
This is wishful thinking, I don’t believe it.
Elie
Martin:
This — LOL!
nellcote
I would be shocked if the SC let him use the 14th amendment considering their selective reading of the constitution.
burnspbesq
@Carl Nyberg:
They wouldn’t have standing. I’m waiting for Reality Check to figure it out and get his hissy fit on at the Roberts Court for its recent standing jurisprudence.
Mr Stagger Lee
Can the Galtian overlords, take on Rush Limbaugh? I mean John Boehner clearing the deal through his lord Rush.
John PM
@Corner Stone #90
I am not paying for the Mac Allen. Not my tab. It’s goong to be a hot time in the old town tonight!
slag
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): That’s more like it.
Killick
I seriously doubt Obama is going to swoop in here to save the day. We are going to default, this is going to be one hell of a rocky time.
I do not expect that either party is going to emerge unscathed, but I do expect that the republicans, who have been saying they want this to happen, will take the brunt of it
And the republican house is a very, very public, very, very embarrassing spectacle. It’s going be very, very ugly because finding someone to blame is not going to be hard.
shortstop
Between your Macallaning on DeKoven Street and RC’s reacharounds on Lower Wacker, I’m thinking I best be heading to the suburbs tonight for safety.
Reality Check
So all this talk about McDonalds got me a little hungry. MM..mmmm.mmmmmm….one Angus Third Pounder Bacon & Cheese, large fries, all washed down with an ice cold Bud…mmm..mmm..MMMMMMMMMMMMM!
Corner Stone
@John PM: Oh. Well then jam out with your clam out!
JGabriel
DougJ @ Top:
I think it’s wishful thinking — not on Josh’s part, but on the part of his sources. It sounds like people are thinking:
I mean, it’s not a strategy. It’s just expressing the desperate desire for someone to come in and save Congressional Republicans (and the country) from themselves. It’s their last hope.
Over a hundred responses in, and I’m the first to say this?
.
Corner Stone
@Reality Check: You should’ve ended this with, “Here we go!!”
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Do they sell beer at Mickey D’s now?
hildebrand
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam, lovely spam, wonderful spam!
shortstop
The fifth or sixth or eighth. There have been several requests for Josh/Josh’s sources/Doug to show their work.
baldheadeddork
No, Boehner doesn’t have the votes. He never did.
Let’s run the numbers: If every Dem voted yes to pass a debt ceiling bill they’d still need 25 Republicans to pass. But all of the Dems won’t vote yes. God Himself couldn’t write a debt limit bill that Dennis Kucinich and Heath Schuler would both support. Every Democrat who votes no is another Republican who has to vote yes.
Under the most optimistic scenario, Boehner would need to scare up at least fifty Republicans to walk the plank. But the more friendly the bill is to those Republicans, the more it will alienate liberal Democrats. My SWAG is that the final number of Republicans needed for passage will be a lot closer to 80 than 50.
Where are those votes going to come from? There are already nearly 100 Republicans who have pledged to vote against any increase. That takes us down to 140 Republican votes that are theoretically in play.
In the past, those votes would come from regions like New England, the Northwest and Upper Midwest. But Republicans as a whole were decimated in those regions in 2006 and 2008, and the seats that were won back in 2010 went to teabagger candidates. The galtian overlords didn’t get these freshmen elected and they won’t be able to protect them from a primary next spring if they cross their base. Because of the threat of a primary, not even Reps in districts that Obama won are safe.
I can’t come up with more than a dozen Republicans who could vote with the Democrats and probably survive a primary challenge. If one of the bigger Congressional nerds wants to run all of the Republicans, I’d love to hear their take – but I’ll bet my truck there aren’t dozens of these votes up for grabs.
It’s not much better in the Senate, either. Because of cloture, McConnell has to deliver at least seven Republicans to get a final vote and, like the House, the actual numbers are probably higher. Name ten Senate Republicans who would vote yes on cloture for a debt ceiling bill that has huge Democratic support? I can’t.
One last ray of sunshine: With the capitulation by Democrats so far, why shouldn’t Republicans feel they could get even more after we default? I’m afraid we’re falling into the famous reality trap described to Ron Suskind during the Bush years. While we’re arguing about default, they’re creating the groundwork to pass that shit-awful constitutional amendment.
Corner Stone
@JGabriel:
Well, I for one just disagree with your analysis outcome. So I wouldn’t say it in any numbered thread.
Reality Check
@Doug J
The Bud is from the fridge. Got the food at the drive-thru and brought it home. Man I love drive-thrus.
RossInDetroit
I kinda feel bad for Creamsicle too. He sold his soul for this job and now he’s going to have nothing to show for it but the memory of this failure. But doesn’t the devil always have a trick up his sleeve in these stories? Sure, I’ll make you leader. And I’ll give you a caucus that wouldn’t follow a fireman out of a blazing building.
celticdragonchick
@Opal
Milk and cookies kept him awake. Would it be unseemly of me to imagine him meeting the same fate as Sebastion in Blade Runner?
Corner Stone
My life was so much easier back when I could eat bread.
Linda Featheringill
Question:
Assuming that somebody in Washington has actually written the bill for the “Big Deal,” and assuming that it is sitting on a shelf somewhere,
Would it be possible to submit it to the budget office and get it scored ahead of time so that it’s ready to go?
Martin
Selling off land was proposed as a short-term fix, but could also have long-term benefits. How about we start selling off the welfare states in order:
New Mexico ($2.03)
Mississippi ($2.02)
Alaska ($1.84)
Louisiana ($1.78)
West Virginia ($1.76)
North Dakota ($1.68)
Alabama ($1.66)
South Dakota ($1.53)
Kentucky ($1.51)
Virginia ($1.51)
I’ll miss New Mexico.
Spaghetti Lee
Man, Paul Konerko just hit a two-run homer and even that didn’t cheer me up, not even for a minute. It’s worse than I thought.
Linda Featheringill
@Corner Stone:
You can’t eat bread?
My daughter has gotten on board with some anti-inflammatory diet and has separated us from wheat products and dairy products. She felt a lot better almost immediately and has maintained that new baseline. I gradually began to feel better and am hanging in there. But I still miss bread. Some days I rely on beans for carbohydrates and that’s sad!
If you can’t eat bread, you certainly have my sympathy.
Bruce S
Krugman on “The cult that is destroying America”
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/the-cult-that-is-destroying-america/
(Pardon me if this has already been posted, but it’s absolutely an essential read)
Martin
Clean bill. Almost everyone has voted for a clean bill in the past, at one time or another.
jl
@122 baldheadeddork
“why shouldn’t Republicans feel they could get even more after we default?”
Because Obama will have the effective power of the purse when the money runs short, and the House cannot dictate spending priorities to him, no matter how much noise they make.
We will find out. If GOP constituencies will get hammered as the money runs dry, then there will be some last minute converts to compromise.
Corner Stone
@Linda Featheringill:
No. It’s going to be a short term extension, 2 months or 3 months, to get to the scoring and tech details to get this done.
Always how it was going to be.
The Dangerman
@baldheadeddork:
Dude, you’re killing my buzz; time for a refill.
+?
JGabriel
@shortstop:
Thanks, that’s a relief. I did searches for wish and hope before posting it and didn’t find anything that said it sounded like a fantasy (which I also searched for). I assume I’ll see them when I read the whole thread.
.
jacy
@Reality Check:
That explains so, so much.
jl
@129 Martin
Are those prices the totals, per acre, per head, per right thinking white man, or what?
If totals, I want dibs on Alaska, Louisiana and New Mexico.
I got… lemme check. Yeah, I got it right here. If you can’t break an Abe and a George, I’ll give you the thirty five cents. You can buy some gum with it.
jacy
@Martin:
No, no, you can’t sell New Mexico! That’s where I’m moving to when I finally get out of this hellhole! The rest you can sell or chisel it off and let it float away, just let me get my stuff out first.
jwb
Corner Stone: You’ve been saying this for weeks now, and with Bobo’s little fit in the Times this morning—not a column that someone who feared the Apocalypse was nigh would execute—you pretty much have me convinced. Yet, then, I read about the latest antics of Boehner and Canter and really can’t believe that they have been taught their moves for the Kabuki choreography. So if the deals not with one of the clowns, who is it with? Who is going to ensure they get 30 Gooper House members to vote for something?
jwb
PIGL: I hear the billionaire’s party, America’s Elect, is looking for a few good members. Maybe Corner Stone’s Chamber of Commerce Goopers could defect enmass to the Elect and they could then create a coalition with the Dems. Hadn’t thought about the fact that it has the benefit of ratfucking everybody since it would probably only be done on the condition of Boehner maintaining the Speakership and the Dems agreeing to take the worst of the deals that Obama offered, so maybe there’s more possibility to it than I initially figured.
Martin
No, seriously this is cool. For each of those states we sell off, we save $2 in spending for every $1 in revenues generated – and most of that is on the entitlement side. Sell enough of them, and the budget gets balanced. Easy peasy!
@jacy:
Think of how cool it’ll be to have a mostly English language state in Mexico.
I’m thinking that we take that whole Virginia to Louisiana block, with the exception of Florida and sell it off as one property and give them responsibility for Afghanistan and Gitmo. That alone might take care of the deficit problem, allowing us to keep New Mexico. We’ll give Florida to Israel as a new Jewish homeland, because that middle east thing is turning out kinda fucked up. That’ll keep it a nice place to visit.
What do you think? I think I’ve solved an awful lot of problems right there, all nice and neat.
shortstop
Martin: It all sounds excellent, but Georgia, which isn’t on the list, is going to cut up nasty. Maybe we can move the population of the productive Atlanta metro area elsewhere with fancy incentive programs.
Corner Stone
@jwb: The sweet part is that if I’m wrong then we’re all gonna die anyway.
Upside!!
Cain
@John PM
Batman 1.. the joker said that. The clown prince of crime.. how appropriate :)
Rick Taylor
__
I’ve wondered about this myself. If I understand correctly, some commentators like Digby and Atrios argue that the Republicans will inevitably raise the debt ceiling, everything is Kabuki, and so there is no need to negotiate with Republicans; we can insist on a clean bill. I’ve wondered if that’s true or not; I really don’t know. I guess we’ll find out.
TooManyJens
@Martin: There’s a flaw in your plan. Who’d buy themselves a few states full of Tea Partiers?
Calouste
@Davis Ex:
Germany in the 70s where the FDP went from a coalition with the SPD to a coalition with the CDU/CSU.
Martin
Hey, there’s gonna be some breakage, don’t get me wrong. The problem I have with moving Atlanta is that CNN might come with it, and that’s not a risk I’m willing to take. Am I willing to accept half a million Atlanta residents at the cost of one Wolf Blitzer? I don’t think I can compromise that much.
Cain
@Cornerstone
I’m afraid then, that I will have to insist on nachos!
Cain
@TooManyJens
Are you kidding me? I totally would.. those fuckers will believe anything and are willing to part money from their wallet to fight whatever demon I make up. I’ll steal their money and enrich myself while spending money on police, cutting programs, put in a bunch of guns, and let the whole mess implode. FREEDOM
TooManyJens
@Cain: You make a compelling case. Evil, but compelling.
Martin
The GOP, yes. The teatards, no. The way out is GOP/Dem agreement with the teatards flinging feces from the sidelines.
Martin
Ahem.
eemom
um, this is different from what’s been said for the last three weeks HOW, exactly?
All this time we’ve been hearing the same shit. The MOTU Cavalry is riding to the rescue; a single crack of their mighty whips will send the hordes of marauding teatards whimpering back into the barn, and the debt limit shall be Raised.
Oh well, I guess they really MEAN it this time.
Trollenschlongen
Such brave, bold language. Such a brave declaration of resolve…not.
My god, why is the man always such a noncommital milquetoast?
stinkdaddy
Assuming JM is correct, why would we assume the last-minute bill ends up being a clean one rather than the Reid bill? If I’m a GOP Rep I’m not going to count on the Reid cuts saving me from the suicide squad, but I’d feel better having them in my pocket than a clean bill, aka “blank check” in Tea Party parlance.
Hope springs eternal I suppose, but at this point it seems to me that our options are Reid or default. Both are terrible.
JGabriel
Trollenschlongen:
Sometimes people have userids that don’t really match their style, like butch guys naming themselves after female elves in the LOTR, or double-digit IQ teabaggers naming themselves after Greek philosophers, but, Trollenschlongen, you EARN your handle.
I kinda respect that.
.
Martin
LOL
Cliff
Republicans in the Senate, Wall Street and just a lot sane people in general … just say: Dude, you don’t have a full deck, this is over.
Yeah, that’ll show ’em!
You just go ahead and tell Allen West that he’s not playing with a full deck of cards, and he’ll fall right in line. Works every time.
And surely, sane Senate Republicans like John McCain, Jon Kyl, Lindsey Graham, Jim DeMint, Orrin Hatch, James Inhofe, Mike Lee, Mitch McConnell, Marc Rubio, Jeff Sessions, Richard Shelby…
aw we’re fucked
Comrade Kevin
@JGabriel:
Comment of the day!
NamelessGenXer
@Martin
You owned this thread, buddy. SELL THE DUMB FUCKING HICK STATES! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
#23. Pure comedy gold, and a likely scenario IMO.
burnspbesq
@Trollenschlongen:
You fucking ignoramus. Don’t you know the difference between being cautious and being a milquetoast?
Patience. It’s just a matter of getting the right lawyers to weigh in. The guys who opined that what is happening in Libya is not “hostilities” aren’t available right now.
gwangung
Don’t yell at him. You should be inviting him to a game of poker.
Kane
There’s a popular narrative that those on Wall Street don’t want the government to default, and that the powers that be will step in at the last minute to ensure that a default doesn’t happen.
But this narrative is based largely on the assumption that Wall Street cares. They don’t. These are people who make money in bullish and bearish markets.
Consider the warnings that a government default would spark “catastrophic economic consequences that would last for decades,” and that millions of jobs could be lost. Do you think there might be some people on Wall Street and in Washington who might consider this a good thing to promote their agenda and push their extreme policies? And do you think these people would lose sleep at night over the thought that individuals would have to pay higher interest rates to borrow money?
Maybe I’m wrong. But I wouldn’t be holding out for Wall Street to be riding in on a white horse to save the day. If they genuinely cared about the state of the county, they would have stepped up long before now.
SRW1
Davis X. Machina
Is there any precedent for a three-party politics with the smallest party in the middle?
Western Germany until the mid 1980s when the party landscape in parliament started to fragment.
Corner Stone
@Kane: They have to have a counter party.
You can make money in any kind of market but you have to have someone to accept a trade. And then pay up. If the other side can’t meet their end then you’ve got nothing. And in this case the world Govts won’t be able to step in on the downside.
Imagine for a minute you had $100,000 of income stream a month, every month. And you had to find some place to put that flow. Had to. You can’t let $100K sit in your mattress each month.
There are a lot of opportunities you can take a flyer on but at the end of the day you need a safe, guaranteed return for the bulk of it.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@ShadeTail:
Reality Check is a goat fucker who is here to try and rope some goats for a quick ride and a cheap good time. Don’t let him get your goat. If you have to respond, make sure that you are anything but serious.
That way you’re more than likely to get his goat instead.
jwb
Corner Stone: Yeehaw! We’re riding it down.
Seriously, that’s depressing. I was really hoping you could reconcile Boehner’s and Canter’s behavior with the presence of a deal or at least the thought that someone else was running the show.
Jake
For those of you wondering what Our Galtian Overlords could possibly do to change the course of events, imagine your local Fox News station running a bit on the nightly news saying
It’d be over the next day.
jwb
Jake: The real question is why it hasn’t already been done.
Corner Stone
@jwb: I answered you in another thread. But if you’re the boss, do you tell the people working under you everything?
Yutsano
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
REALITY CHECK IS MICKEY KAUS??
stinkdaddy
@65, way upthread but important point:
That’s not really the case. Reid’s bill has the same ‘supercongress’ provision as Boehner’s. If it passes we get a panel of 12: 6 from each chamber, split evenly between Dems and GOP. The panel will vote on recommendations for changes to SS/Medicare among other things. If the panel gets a bare majority (7/12) then their recommendations get a fast-tracked up or down vote. No amendments, no filibuster. It’s Simpson-Bowles with a much lower threshold for fast-tracking, and if we get outt’ve this with anything but a clean bill the likelihood of cuts to these programs is extremely high.
There will be 6 Republicans, and it will take 7 votes to fast-track social security cuts. Think about that.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Yutsano:
Mickey Kaus is Reality Check’s idol. He has him bent over on a pedestal.
Yutsano
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Wow. I was just reheating dinner when I read that. I think my appetite just went the way of the passenger pigeon.
Martin
It doesn’t matter how many votes, it’s always the last vote that matters. Whoever is casting that decisive vote one way or another commands enormous power. The House is so large that you rarely see it, but you see it in the Senate. With 12 votes, that 7th vote will have a spotlight on them like nothing you’ve ever seen. And with so few members, no weak players will be allowed on that team.
The Supercongress idea is basically an admission that they need an adult table, because the House is just 3 year-olds having a perpetual food-fight.
I haven’t thought about the idea enough, but based on how close votes tend to play out relative to the size of the voting body, it’d be basically impossible to bully that 7th vote and it’d be really damn hard to get anything even moderately controversial out of it. In fact, I’d be surprised if you saw anything but 12-0 votes out of it.
I wonder if the VP would count as a Senate participant? That could be interesting.
JGabriel
@JGabriel:
Ah, the internet! I have now discovered that when one is looking for comments about wishful thinking or financial fantasies, one does not search for the terms wish or hope or fantasy or lottery; instead, on the internet, one does a text search for the words underpants and gnomes.
Or maybe that’s not the internet, maybe it’s just Balloon Juice. I’m not entirely sure.
.
stinkdaddy
I think that’s wildly optimistic, and would tend to look at it as a perfect opportunity for 5 members of the Democratic side of the committee to be publicly shocked and horrified that the sixth has voted for a plan the GOP portion drew up. On the other hand I am just a bit cynical.
If this thing happens and we see someone like Lieberman or Nelson appointed to it we’ll know we’re in trouble.
Anne Laurie
To paraphrase a certain well-worn quote, How many panzer divisions does the Supreme Court have? There is an established history, starting no later than America’ first redneck president (Jackson), where under the “right” circumstances the man in the Oval Office does what he considers essential to the welfare of the republic, and the SC… decides it’s none of their business to interfere. This is not a topic much discussed on Schoolhouse Rock, but President Obama is a constitutional scholar, and even the least bright member of the Nine is aware of it.
Which doesn’t mean I think the President is going to pull the 14th-amendment trigger, but saying “The SC won’t allow it” is like saying “Adultery is against the law” — by the time the parties are discussing logistics, the nominal lawlessness has ceased to be a deterrent.
JGabriel
@Anne Laurie:
Yeah, I agree. The President has written off triggering the 14th Amendment. Using the Feds power over coinage to punch out 3 one trillion dollar coins and deposit them is even more gimmicky, so we can probably write off that option too.
That pretty much leaves Obama to either permit default, or override it by executive authority for the good of the country.
I’m not sure which option he’ll choose.
.
Martin
Well, you won’t see that. Remember, with the usual majority/supermajority rules, you’re getting the weakest elements of each party sitting as that last vote. You’re getting Liberman and Nelson, but never, ever Kerry or Schumer.
In a ‘supercongress’ notion, the party is selecting those 3 representatives, not voters, and they’re going to pick the most loyal members and they’ll have to have earned those slots through seniority. What’d be interesting is that Cantor would make it onto that committee – which indicates a split loyalty in the GOP House. In this scenario you might see 11-1 votes, etc. but generally I’d expect to see quite broad agreement, mainly because the outcome of anything that comes out of this group will be known. That’s the whole point – for these 12 individuals to effectively proscribe what legislation will pass by nuking all of the procedural bullshit, and only allowing out of the group what they know will get support and from whom.
Anyone who has called for the end of the filibuster – this is it, and without the risk of some asshole on your side going rogue. Now, it might mean that everything gets stalled forever because the pressure on those 12 is too high, but well, that’s no worse than what we have now.
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: Only because there is indeed, a Schoolhouse Rock for everything. And I can’t help myself.
Also too: the Supreme Court cannot act unilaterally. They cannot interject into the matter until there’s a actual case in front of them. Regardless of how Scalia will want to upstage the nigra.
Rome Again
@peach flavored shampoo:
I hear that God said the Great Flood would only happen once, the next time would be a trial by fire.
Martin
@JGabriel:
My money is on default. Half-measures don’t lead to lasting outcomes. He’ll let everyone feel the pain so that this actually gets fixed properly.
He might split the difference, with some executive authority to keep critical functions going in excess of the debt ceiling, but shutting everything else down. I think that’d still fit his attitude toward problem solving.
stinkdaddy
My understanding is this stuff would be deliberated behind the scenes then dumped on the Congress/public for an up or down vote. Even without a filibuster there are amendments and other procedural tricks that can be used to slow the bill down somewhat and allow time for someone to raise a stink. You’re not selling me, here — it seems that they’re happy to keep the system permafucked for the most part, but when it comes to unpopular stuff like dumping mortgage deductions and cutting social security they want to setup some ad-hoc end-around of the regular process for as long as it takes to flip the public at large the bird, and then go back to telling us how they can’t get anything done because Washington’s broken.
If the filibuster’s a problem (and it is) they should end or reform it. If they want to cut SS/Medicare without reforming the filibuster then they need to do it through the current process. Doing whichever is convenient at a given moment doesn’t fly with me.
William Hurley
There’s no way Boehner, Cantor or Jimmy Dimon will get the 110+ House GOP rookies and their multi-term brethren (e.g.: Ryan, Gommert, …) to vote for a debt ceiling hike – period.
Mathematically, that leaves Pelosi to sacrifice ~65% of her caucus if Reagan-lite is going to get his “balanced approach” gutting of Medicare, Medicaid and SocSec – oh yeah and a debt ceiling increase.
I think both Pelosi and House GOPers are tougher than Wall St and its dapper dons (read: Jim Dimon & company). The important, nay crucial, thing to remember is that Wall Streeters aren’t as tough as they expect you to think they are – nor as competent.
The geniuses of Wall St can’t run their own businesses, can’t do basic math and have no clue as to how to assess risk. Pelosi knows that, Barney Frank knows that, Ron Paul knows that, and so do many, many others. Besides, there are more House members (new & old) who would love to not only be handed the opportunity to tell Wall St to go fuck themselves directly AND to actually fuck them where they’ll feel it – in their assets!
The Senate and Barak Wilson Obama have a necessarily different relationship with Wall St – evidenced in one case one braggart’s stated intentions to raise a billion dollars in campaign funds. Never-the-less, BWO and the Sentorians will put on their teary-eyed, frowny faces to cajole the weak-willed among the House sheep to conform. If they get 80 “purple” House members, they’ll be lucky. From the rest, they’ll get dick.
The “tell” that Wall St’s intimidation tactics have failed will be BWO’s abrupt embrace of a “14th Amendment” solution next Friday at 5:30p EDT.
Kane
I can already see the 12-member panel. Six Conservatives and six Conservadems. In one clean sweep the corporate powers empower themselves while marginalizing the populist wings.
Martin
Nancy is a conservadem now? Wow. No wonder you guys hate Obama.
Thymezone
Is this why you haven’t taken me up on my bet? I put up ten dollars to each of the first two front pagers here who want the action, that there will not be a default.
Takers? Anybody with ten bucks worth of you know what? Anybody want to make a friendly little wager?
I also took the ambiguity out of defining what “default” means. It means all the bills get paid and the checks go out, and the debt limit gets raised by whatever means is necessary. No date certain, since the date is moveable.
Thymezone
Here’s how it goes down: I talked to my lawyers again, and now they are persuaded. The congress cannot act, it is bogged down in politics. The security of the country and of the people is at risk. I am instructing the Treasurer to proceed with a debt ceiling set by my authority under the Constitution, until further notice. There will be no default on my watch. All the bills will be paid and all the checks will go out under my order until congress is ready to act. Investors can be assured that their assets are safe. I am taking no questions today, we’ll hold a news conference tomorrow to flesh out some of the details for you at that time. Thank you, and good night.
Thymezone
Headline: Reagan Fires Air Controllers.
This is the replay.
Thymezone
#188 — I don’t think that the thing is impossible, but I agree it is not going to be easy. The scene looks like this:
Caucus meeting room:
Boehner: Folks, let me explain something to you. This is a party, a political party and the majority caucus in this House. As a member of this caucus, there are going to be times when you have to do things that must be done, and this is one of those times. You are going to vote for this debt ceiling increase, which I have in my hand here, tonight by voice vote on the floor at 11:30 pm. If you don’t, if you vote against it, then your privileges … and they are privileges .. in this caucus are gone. You will no longer be able to count on this caucus to support you or work with you on legislation for the remainder of this Congress. This is your duty as an official of the government of this country. As long as I’m speaker, this vote is a requirement in this caucus. Don’t tell me you came here to accomplish something, we all did. But this is not your only bite at the apple. Do your work, earn your respect here, not based on coercion and fear, but on your ability to work with others in this body. Cast this vote, and live in this caucus to fight another day. If you don’t, your term is over tonight as far as I am concerned.
If he is really the Speaker, he makes that speech and Pelosi makes the same speech and between them they cobble up the votes they need. If not, then Boehner’s speakership is over, and we get the 14th Amendment. This ain’t rocket science. It’s all about leadership.
Rome Again
@Thymezone:
The speech you made in the kitchen was better, it included having no funding source for campaigns in 2012. I liked that one better! :P
Thymezone
Hey, even the Gettysburg Address took a couple of drafts!
TenguPhule
We’ll take option 3) the one that involves Teabaggers buried in a mass grave.
Thymezone
#197 — time again for the Hawaiian Kings approach, right?
I missed that, glad you came back :)
TenguPhule
If this isn’t an invitation for a CIA car bomb in the limo, nothing is.
TenguPhule
#198
Say what you will about the Hawaiian Kings and Priests, at least they had the good sense most of the time to make sure the dumb ones didn’t live long enough to breed.
Thymezone
#200 — LIKE
Thymezone
#199 — he’s a lunatic, and his view will not prevail. One reason they are acting like this is that they know they are losing this battle, and once this debt ceiling is raised, they are not going to get another shot at this kind of coercion any time soon. The public mood for it is … um … unfavorable.
TenguPhule
I’d like to hope that, but nobody ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the lowest common denominator of the US House of Reps.
And if they pull a fillbuster in the Senate, well that’s all she wrote.
We’re being held by a suicide bomber and at this point our only hope is they don’t have a deadman switch backup.
Thymezone
At midnight of the last day, the Senate is not going to be filibustering. They are going to be doing a voice vote and getting the hell out of town. They do not want to be the gang of morons who tried to break the country and stop the Social Security checks.
Have faith.
Thymezone
If you can get a front pager to back you, you can take on my bet. Ten bucks, there will be no default. You can pay me in those funny coins that they threw in Pearl Harbor when the war started. What say ye?
Oh wait, maybe it was Manila Bay. I forget.
TenguPhule
Point of order, theý’re morons.
TenguPhule
What is this, heads you win tails I lose?
If we default, 10 bucks means squat. If we don’t, I owe you ten bucks. Can I bet that pack of beer Cole still owes me instead?
Thymezone
Beer = yes. Bet’s on?
eemom
I am kind of tired of know-nothing assholes who insist they can predict the end game in this disaster.
Nighty night.
JGabriel
@eemom:
But you’re one of us!
.
JGabriel
@TenguPhule:
Minor fix to bring it in line with the latest nomenclature.
.
Thymezone
#209 — Oh sure, hand-wringing like a bunch of defeated old women is a hell of a lot more fun.
Thymezone
#212 — by “fun” of course I mean blogworthy. You get the idea!
TenguPhule
#208
Yes. Ideally one of us will be happily drunk when this is over.
bob h
The only way Clowntime comes to an end is when Wall St. threatens to cut off campaign funding.
Bob Natas
This is the United States. There will never be an end to clowntime.
Nemesis
House baggers are gonna flip.
Then they can be heralded by the VSP as saving us from default.
kay
Reality Check, Speaker Boehner didn’t cut anything. It’s all backloaded, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Speaker Boehner must know that he can’t pull massive amounts of money out of a recovering economy without killing the recovery. That’s why he backloaded all the cuts.
The one and only way that conservatives can get where the Tea Party wants to go is ending Medicare. That’s it. Without raising taxes or cutting defense (both of which conservatives refuse to do) that’s your only choice.
For God’s sake. How long is it going to take the Tea Party and conservatives to reach this conclusion?
Just cut to the chase. Any conservative who says they are going to balance the budget without drastically changing Medicare is lying. That’s where all the money goes.
Liberals have about 50,000 options for balancing the budget. Conservatives have ONE. So get on with it. Admit you have to kill Medicare, and see if you can get your one and only option past the Senate and the President.
The Raven
One good thing for our side: this is splitting the Republicans internally. Analysis over at Talking Points Memo, post.
But does it matter? Any eventual deal is going to feed us corvids well. Default is beginning to look like the best option for you hominids.
As to the 14th amendment types: it still looks like Obama is constitutionally, though perhaps not Constitutionally, unwilling to invoke the 14th amendment in this instance. It may be just as well: the conservatives are looking for an opportunity to repeal the 14th amendment to better implement racist immigration policies.
Pat
priscianusjr
@Thymezone
karen marie
Can we all please learn the difference between “reign” and “rein”?
I understand that kids these days are not very familiar with monarchy or horses, but really.