Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » March Madness Open Thread

March Madness Open Thread

By John Cole March 19th, 2011

Currently stressing my way through the WVU/Kentucky match-up.

Posted in Sports

This entry was posted on Saturday, March 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm and is filed under Sports. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

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190 Responses to “March Madness Open Thread”

1 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

Fingers crossed, John. Fingers crossed.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

2 burnspbesq Says:

It takes a lot to get me to cheer for a Huggins-coached team.

A matchup with Kentucky is sufficient.

Go ‘Eers!

March 19th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

3 Dave C Says:

Go SDSU Aztecs! our first ever NCCA tournament win was on Thursday. Hopefully today will bring our second.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

4 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@burnspbesq:

The problem with rooting against a Calipari team is that you can never hate on the same team twice.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

5 Yutsano Says:

@burnspbesq: It’s a bit rambling, but I thought you’d appreciate this opinion piece I stumbled across last night.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

6 burnspbesq Says:

XTC were right: God has a sick sense of humor.

How else to explain a Duke-Michigan matchup in the wake of the controversy over the “Fab 5” documentary?

March 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

7 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@Dave C:

Dude, I kinda wish SDSU was in another region, since they’ve impressed the hell out of me this season, and I kinda don’t want to have to root against them. But if both they and WVU can survive to the Elite 8, I might have to.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

8 Comrade Luke Says:

Beat Jimmer.

That is all.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

9 Yutsano Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: I used to party every fourth of July with a bunch of Aztecs, it was hella fun. So I might be biased here.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

10 burnspbesq Says:

@Yutsano:

As a white person, that’s a conversation I try to stay away from, but Moore’s an idiot.

Grant Hill’s response to Jalen Rose says it all.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.c.....alen-rose/

March 19th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

11 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

Aw, hell. UK on a run.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

12 burnspbesq Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik:

Not sure what bracket you’re looking at, but if SDSU makes it to the Elite Eight, their most likely opponent is Duke. Ten minutes from my house. At a time when I will be on an airplane on my way to London. Sux being me.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

13 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@burnspbesq:

Ack, whoops, misread the bracket, my bad.

So…here’s hoping SDSU and WVU meet in the Final Four.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

14 Yutsano Says:

@burnspbesq:

I am proud of my family. I am proud of my Duke championships and all my Duke teammates. And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.

Gotta lurve the way he rubs the salt in there.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

15 burnspbesq Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik:

here’s hoping SDSU and WVU meet in the Final Four.

The chances of that were significantly reduced yesterday, when Kyrie Irving played 20 minutes and showed no lingering effects from his toe injury (other than the normal amount of rust from not having played for three months.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

16 Southern Beale Says:

Currently stressing my way through the WVU/Kentucky match-up.

Us too. Mr. Beale is a UK grad so we’re rooting for the ‘Cats… looks like this game is gonna be a nail-biter…

March 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

17 BGinCHI Says:

As a born and bred Hoosier, it fucking pains me to root for the hated UK, but I have them in my brackets.

Without Mazzullo WVU wouldn’t win a high school game. That guy has got game.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

18 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@Southern Beale:

My advance congratulations/condolences.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

19 MikeJ Says:

I have the French over the Libyan government:

A French plane has fired the first shots in Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone begins. The target was a military vehicle, the French defence ministry said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971

It’s a pity no journalists actually read the UN resolution. It oks military action, not just a no-fly zone. But they want to write no-fly zone, so they’ll write what they want regardless of the facts.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

20 stuckinred Says:

Go Illini!

Michigan is the first team to win a NCAA tourney game and have ZERO free throws!

March 19th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

21 stuckinred Says:

@MikeJ: What’s the spread? Over-under?

March 19th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

22 Elvis Elvisberg Says:

@burnspbesq:

It takes a lot to get me to cheer for a Huggins-coached team. A matchup with Kentucky is sufficient. Go ‘Eers!

Exactly my rationale here. Boy, was Calipari’s sideline interview predictably contemptible.

@burnspbesq: I preferred the most-recommended comment. Hill’s response was predictably well-written, but it’s pretty clear that Rose was talking about the jealousy-driven view of his 19-yr-old self, not anything he’d defend today.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

23 Morbo Says:

My BJ bracket is still in decent shape, but my LGM bracket is boned.

Also, as a white person I feel it’s important to say: fuck Duke.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

24 Dave C Says:

@Comrade Luke:

From your lips to (the non-Mormon) God’s ears.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

25 Yutsano Says:

@MikeJ: Our journalists? Making up their own facts? Unpossible!

March 19th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

26 Loneoak Says:

@Yutsano:

The thing is that if Jalen Rose had made the same point without using ‘Uncle Tom’ we would all be agreeing with him. Duke doesn’t recruit from the under-privileged crowd. That’s why they are assholes. I think other than the use of a really offensive term, Rose’s commentary was thoughtful and honest about a real experience in black America.

Anyway, another quirk in Sunday’s matchup is Michigan’s extremely white team this year.

March 19th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

27 MikeJ Says:

@Yutsano: BBC journalist in that case, but their news has really gone downhill in the past few years. A combination of the BBC America rubbing off and their chasing after twitter readers.

Still among the best in the world, just not the quality they used to have. But as was pointed out upthread, they are carrying the rugby today.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:00 pm

28 Southern Beale Says:

Knut the polar bear has died....

Damn. He was just 4 years old …..

March 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

29 Loneoak Says:

@stuckinred:

Michigan is the first team to win a NCAA tourney game and have ZERO free throws!

Wasn’t that weird? How do you hand out a 75-45 asskicking and go 0-1 from the free throw line? It’s even weirder than going 0-20 from the line, if you think about it.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

30 burnspbesq Says:

WVU has no chance if Harrelson is allowed to go over the back on every offensive rebound.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

31 Southern Beale Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik:

It’s always down to the wire with UK.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

32 Yutsano Says:

@Southern Beale: Well yeah. If it’s a foregone conclusion why watch the games in the first place?

March 19th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

33 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

Guh. I’m getting a complex about daring to watch any team I support. I cut off the live stream after Kentucky got a lead to play another video. Looked back, saw WVU had a 4 point lead again, turned the stream back on just in time to watch Kentucky go on a 6-0 run. And this always seems to happen whenever I watch an important game for a team I support.

EDIT: Make that a 9-0 run. Yeah. Off you go again.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

34 burnspbesq Says:

@Loneoak:

Duke doesn’t recruit from the under-privileged crowd.

Bullshit, and fuck you to boot. Explain Johnny Dawkins, Elton Brand, Chris Carrawell, Roshown McLeod, William Avery, Sean Dockery, Chris Duhon, Tyler Thornton.

You wanna hate, hate. But bring some facts.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

35 Southern Beale Says:

Wingnut death spiral into self-parody:

Today, WND published an op-ed by Larry Klayman explaining how “evil Hillary” Clinton will seek to “finally obtain proof positive that President Obama was born in Kenya.” According to Klayman, this would save her the inconvenience of having to kill him. No, really.

Cannot believe we live in a country where loons like this are given a platform to disseminate their crazy talk. Watching the empire fall SUCKS.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

36 Southern Beale Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik:

Oh please, keep watching. WVU has a 10 pt lead now … REALLY! Would I lie to you?

Bwaaaahaaahaaa…...

March 19th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

37 Southern Beale Says:

@Yutsano:

Well then why have seeds? What I meant is, UK is down to the wire regardless of how the opposing team is ranked.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

38 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@Southern Beale:

Oi, I may be a moral coward and superstitious when it comes to my teams, but I’m smart enough to at least monitor the scores.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

39 cathyx Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: Think of it this way, as my mom would tell me when I thought that way.

Who do you think you are that you have such power over outcomes, that by watching or not watching you can determine who wins and who doesn’t? Bring your ego down a bit. You are not that powerful.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

40 Yutsano Says:

@Southern Beale: So they play to their opponents’ level. Keeps things interesting no doubt. And myocardial infarcting inducing to boot.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

41 Southern Beale Says:

@Yutsano:

Husband who follows this more closely says they are just really inconsistent this season.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

42 Comrade Luke Says:

A bit torn here, since I’m no fan of Calipari, but I’m sick of hearing about the “vaunted” Big East.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

43 srv Says:

I had a great idea for an SNL skit. Sort of a rip on the old Ronnie-in-charge Iran/Contra skit.

Obama is making all the decisions with the national security team while dribbling a basketball in the Oval Office. Gets a call from Merkel, argues with her in German while watching the game on his iphone. Then he does a presser while the game plays on his teleprompter.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

44 Yutsano Says:

@Southern Beale: Just remember: breath goes in, breath goes out. Breath goes in, breath goes out. And stop paying attention if it bugs you THAT much.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

45 Southern Beale Says:

@srv:

I had a great idea for an SNL skit. Sort of a rip on the old Ronnie-in-charge Iran/Contra skit.

That reminds me of this old “Ask President Carter” skit with Dan Aykroyd where he gets all sorts of weird questions—one guy ODing, etc.—and he has the answers to everything.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

46 Southern Beale Says:

@Yutsano:

Looks like UK has it sewn up, 40 seconds and it’s a 7 point game .. YAY!

C-A-T-S Cats Cats Cats! Gooooooo CATS!

March 19th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

47 Southern Beale Says:

WOOOO CATS DO IT

GOOOOO CATS!

{ happy dance }

March 19th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

48 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

Well, there goes any personal stake I had left in the tournament.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

49 Chris Wolf Says:

According to ESPN, Obama’s bracket is currently 492nd out of over 6 million submitted.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

50 burnspbesq Says:

Duke women up 10 at the half, but allowing UT-Martin to hang around. Bad idea against a team that lives and dies by the three; the Seahawks could go unconscious in the second half.

One wonders how a school that’s at least 500 miles from the nearest sea ends up calling its sports teams “Seahawks.” Makes sense for UNC-Wilmington, but UT-Martin?

March 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

51 moe99 Says:

As a graduate of UK Law School (1976) it’s hard to say whether I hate Pitino or Calipari more.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

52 BombIranForChrist Says:

Sadly, I do not watch basketball, so it’s BBQ and Killzone for me. And Pliny the Elder. And, inevitably, tequila. Then lunch!

March 19th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

53 bk Says:

I hate Duke because I went to Carolina. Simple as that. Speaking of which, the good news is that I got my invitation to my alumni reunion weekend a few days ago. The bad news is that it is my 40th.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:40 pm

54 burnspbesq Says:

@moe99:

That’s easy for me: it’s Calipari.

(1) Calipari cheats wherever he goes.

(2) Pitino coached the only likeable Kentucky team, the Unforgettables.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

55 Ed in NJ Says:

@Comrade Luke:

Yeah, too bad we can’t fluff the SEC or Big Ten all year ‘round.

Top to bottom best league in the country. Not even up for debate. Deal with it. (this is how the SEC and every football commentator sounds each football season).

March 19th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

56 MikeJ Says:

Ireland 24-8 England

March 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

57 burnspbesq Says:

@bk:

After y’all get beat by Washington tomorrow, we will do our best to uphold the honor of the ACC.

Also, 14-9. On your field. Neutralized Bitter, and made Dunster disappear.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

58 HeartlandLiberal Says:

Well, Kentucky won, but let me say something about Calipari.

He represents the worst of the total corporatization and broadcasting and professional take-over of college sports.

Go Google ‘Calipari one-and-done’. To quote teh Google: “About 44,200 results (0.17 seconds) ”

E.g.
“Even by the transient standards of major college basketball today, what happened last spring at the University of Kentucky was astonishing. After falling one game short of the Final Four, the Wildcats saw four – four! – freshmen declare themselves eligible for the NBA draft.”

Calipari reigning king of ‘one-and-done’ players:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/20.....done-play/

March 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

59 The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik Says:

@HeartlandLiberal:

Like I said earlier: the problem with rooting against a Calipari team is that you can never hate on the same team twice.

March 19th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

60 Svensker Says:

@BombIranForChrist:

Pliny the Elder? Arguably more fun than basketball?

March 19th, 2011 at 2:56 pm

61 srv Says:

@Southern Beale: I had forgotten that one! Remember the one with Carter visiting TMI, and the controllers had spilled a Pepsi on the consoles and caused the meltdown. Carter comes in, grills them, and says “this sounds like a Pepsi Syndrome…”

March 19th, 2011 at 2:57 pm

62 burnspbesq Says:

OK. 15-4 run to open the second half.

Navy is hanging very tough with DePaul. Go Mids!

March 19th, 2011 at 2:58 pm

63 Yutsano Says:

@burnspbesq: A buncha tall Marines chasing a small orange ball well? Whowouldathunkit?

(though there could be actual sailors in there too. Just cuz the football team goes all Dawg…)

March 19th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

64 piratedan Says:

this is what makes the tourney such a crap shoot, the officiating. You get one zebra with a hard-on for the limelight or their own “personal” interpretation of the block/charge rule and your best player can be on the sidelines in a matter of seconds. There are loads of refs who understand the game and make calls based on advantage given/gained and allow the game to establish a flow. Then you get some primadonna out there who has an agenda and it can be all over before it even starts.

Still it’s captivating like tsunami footage.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:02 pm

65 efgoldman Says:

@Southern Beale:

I liked this one:
“Over 80 material witnesses and others “died” during the Clinton years, and poor Vince was only one of them.”

Notice the scare quotes around “died.”
I’m guessing that means we’ll see 80 or so zombies marching on DC any day now…

March 19th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

66 burnspbesq Says:

K-Swiss needs to fire its ad agency. Those ads are the epitome of suck. Even worse than the Coke Zero ads.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

67 Moonbatting Average Says:

WVU just put a sizable dent in my bracket. Ah well, to ‘EER is human.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

68 MikeJ Says:

@Moonbatting Average: Obama had Kentucky.

As it is written, so mote it be.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

69 J. Michael Neal Says:

@piratedan:

this is what makes the tourney such a crap shoot, the officiating. You get one zebra with a hard-on for the limelight or their own “personal” interpretation of the block/charge rule and your best player can be on the sidelines in a matter of seconds.

Well, at least they have an interpretation. Last night, Dan Lick (how the hell did the WCHA decide that he was one of the two best refs in the conference and should represent us in the tournament? Oh, right. Greg Shepard) was all over the map on interference and hooking. It was not helped by Cornell thinking that no-check rules mean that the defender has to get out of your way.

I can’t believe I’m longing for Don “Missed the call by that much” Adam and Todd Anderson, but the women’s refs make me do that.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

70 Ash Can Says:

@Southern Beale: A sanity-challenged writer posting on a reality-challenged web site. Sounds about right. (Geez, think of how much lithium it would take to pull these people back down to earth…)

March 19th, 2011 at 3:32 pm

71 eponymous Says:

John,

There’s a team from West Virginia that’s still in the tournament – mid you, it’s Division II, but check out West Liberty:

West Liberty

Article

March 19th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

72 Martin Says:

@efgoldman: Yes, the GOP version of ‘died’.

I looked at them lying in their bed and their eyes were closed. Clearly they had been executed by Hillary. Only when we saw them walking around later in the day did we realize that the Clintons also learned how to clone people, or deploy those WestWorld robots.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

73 J. Michael Neal Says:

@bk: What’s wrong with hating Duke just because they’re Duke? I mean, aside from the fact that they’re annoying (and I have an aunt and uncle that are Dookies, so I know whereof I speak), I’ll almost always root for the public school over the private one.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

74 jl Says:

Saw a Yahoo news story other day that said WV E’ers were fourth worst fans in North American sports.

Not sure that is relevant to Cole, so this could be a random fun fact, or a warning. Not sure which at this point.

I was surprised that the Raiduhs fans did not rank higher in the pantheon of the worst sports fans, but they are a kind of sad lot these days, and got a kind of honorary mention for their awful fashion sense that is some kind of evil spawn of Laday Gaga and a death metal singer.

March 19th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

75 J. Michael Neal Says:

@MikeJ: Despite Brett Lee’s best efforts, Australia’s 34 match World Cup winning streak came to an end.

I’m talking women’s ice hockey and cricket. I’m a loser.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

76 Martin Says:

CNN showing cruise missiles being launched. I’m guessing that’s from a US ship, but CNN doesn’t feel compelled to actually say anything about the video they’re showing.

I am troubled that we couldn’t even put together a cursory vote on this in Congress. I’m sure this is all okay under some AUMF or another, but still – Congress should have a say here.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

77 moe99 Says:

@burnspbesq: Tubby is my fave UK coach. And of course they treated him poorly at the end.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

78 jl Says:

Worst sports fans story.

click through to GQ link for the whole bottom ten list.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/bl.....nba-334878

March 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

79 Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal Says:

@J. Michael Neal:

i believe strongly in the annoying fan/alum method of choosing who to hate. in head to head match ups there is always a fanbase that you hate more. further, sports are commutative, if a team has annoying fans in one sport, its ok to hate all their sports teams accordingly. this is the paterno principle of penn st peeves.

however, since most revenue generating programs have only a passing(tee hee, i kill me) relationship with the academic institution and its core principles, it is unfair to factor in facts or prejudices related to the academic institution in hating the sports teams excluding annoying alums who happen to be fans. natch.

also, too.

never bet on clemson, or a game in which clemson is a participant.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

80 Martin Says:

@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal: FTFY

March 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

81 MikeJ Says:

@J. Michael Neal: They play cricket in Australia? I wouldn’t have known after watching the last few Ashes.

Sorry, I just think the blog world needs more cricket trash talk.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

82 jl Says:

@Martin:

Wikipedia story says that both France and UK have several types of cruise missile. UK has Tomahawks. So, it could have been any of several countries (including US, of course).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile

March 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

83 J. Michael Neal Says:

@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal: Hogwash. In fact, rooting for or against a team based upon just how out of control the school has let the athletic department get is perfectly acceptable. Rooting against any team from the SEC is pretty much required.

Closer to home, I root against St. Cloud State because of the fan base, but against North Dakota more, since it’s both the fanbase and the actual team I hate. Getting all of their money from a mobbed up Nazi lover is another strike against them.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

84 jl Says:

Me, I hate them damn UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs with a passion. Really vile and vicious stuff has happened when their golf fans run all over the course.

They leave slime trails.

Well, I guess a lot of college sports fan crowds leave various things that could be characterized as slime trails, pools, vats, etc. But it’s like the Banana Slugs advertise it and are proud of it.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

85 MikeJ Says:

@Martin: One of the ships on station off Libya is the USS Barry. Coincidence?

March 19th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

86 Cheryl from Maryland Says:

I have never understood all of the Duke hate with Calipari and Pitino around. Go Duke!

March 19th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

87 Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal Says:

@J. Michael Neal:

sec fans are a special case, they provide enough reasons to hate their teams, without having to resort to arguments against theoretically collegiate athletics which logically only end with not having anything to root for.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

88 S. cerevisiae Says:

@J. Michael Neal: I have friends that are Fighting Sue fans and yes, they are as annoying as Cowboy fans.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

89 Yutsano Says:

@MikeJ: Not anymore. The US just confirmed they fired missiles into Libya. Once again down the rabbit hole we go…

March 19th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

90 efgoldman Says:

@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:

i believe strongly in the annoying fan/alum method of choosing who to hate. in head to head match ups there is always a fanbase that you hate more.

I adore the city of Montreal. Really, its one of my favorite places in the world.
The Canadiens fans? Another story entirely. All the sophistication and sense of fair play of our Tea Party state legislators in the South.
Prosecute a hockey player for what amounted to a routine interference penalty? Check!
Riot downtown when one of your players is suspended because he whacked another player across the head with his stick? A two-hander? Also check.

@jl:
Fun times in the 70s – especially in California – when stoned stoonts had to pick new names for the former racially offensive mascots. That’s how Stanford became the [color] Cardinal and Tree their band mascot.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

91 cicero Says:

GO CATS

March 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

92 jl Says:

@Martin:
@Yutsano:

CNN should have said whether it was from a US ship or not, unless they were told not to (but I would disagree with any such decision by the US military requiring secrecy). It probably was a US ship:

US begins assault against Libyan air defenses

“...the U.S. kicked off its attacks on Libyan air defense missile and radar sites along the Mediterranean coast to protect no-fly zone pilots from the threat of getting shot down.

A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity in order to discuss sensitive military operations, said the Obama administration intended to limit its involvement, at least in the initial stages, to helping protect French and other air missions.

(Minor edits to avoid dash problems)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201.....s_us_libya

I like that phrase ‘kicked off’. Hey, just like a game. Some reporter or editor wanted to show they were all kewl and could use informal lingo for killing people and blowing stuff up.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

93 AAA Bonds Says:

We are now at war with Tripoli.

How’s it feel, dawgs?

March 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

94 AAA Bonds Says:

Here’s a fun little moral exercise: correct everyone around you in the next month if they call the war we’re now waging in North Africa something other than a war.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

95 jl Says:

First Barbary War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

March 19th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

96 MikeJ Says:

@efgoldman: The Harvard Crimson have played football since 1873. Don’t know how stoned they were.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

97 AAA Bonds Says:

The Yemeni government killed 45 people in a single attack on demonstrators. That death toll was as of early this morning and has probably increased as the untreated and gravely injured have died.

I understand Obama sent the Yemeni government a strongly-worded letter about bringing some sort of vague third party “to justice” for the killings.

By the way, that government claims they weren’t responsible and that spontaneous pro-government citizens blew away 45 people in an uncoordinated “clash”.

So, at least Obama was shrewd enough to send them a letter that doesn’t contradict their official propaganda about the massacre they carried out.

March 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

98 stuckinred Says:

@AAA Bonds: Why don’t you just pop over to FDL and join there chorus?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

99 AAA Bonds Says:

@jl:

First Barbary War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Thank you. Did a high school project on this and was absolutely astounded that I hadn’t heard about the Barbary Wars until I was assigned them. I thought it was because I was just a kid.

Then later, during Iraq, I brought them up and discovered that very, very few Americans knew we waged a war against Arab states in the first few decades of our country’s existence.

From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli? Let’s hope not.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

100 Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people) Says:

I just love this bit from Gaddhafi to Obama:

“I have said to you before that even if Libya and the United States enter into war, God forbid, you will always remain my son and I have all the love for you as a son, and I do not want your image to change with me,” he wrote. “We are confronting Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, nothing more. What would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? Tell me how would you behave so that I could follow your example?”

So just so y’all know, Gaddhafi will still love Obama as a son, no matter what happens. I bet this sets Orly Taitz off in a new direction in the birther conspiracy.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

101 AAA Bonds Says:

@stuckinred:

I don’t give a damn about FDL and I don’t care about your little blog crew’s feud with FDL and I really wish everyone would shut up about FDL and try to engage the issues here.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

102 Martin Says:

They just confirmed that the Tomahawks were from US and UK ships. 110 or so launched. They weren’t terribly clear about whether we would send our planes in or not, but the lean is that we’re doing the shit we’re good at so that other countries can do the shit that they can do as effectively as us. France seems awfully eager to lead the charge, though.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

103 stuckinred Says:

@AAA Bonds: Is that what you wish?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

104 MikeJ Says:

@Martin: The only planes they specifically mentioned sending in were global hawks, which are piloted from somewhere in the US while the plane is elsewhere.

Which doesn’t mean they won’t send in manned planes, just that they haven’t said it.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

105 stuckinred Says:

@AAA Bonds: Ha, so now you are a fucking expert!

March 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

106 Canadian Observer Says:

Now that the bloody hands of the American Empire are involved, the massacre of innocents will multiply by a thousand fold.

I can’t wait until you go bankrupt finally and no longer dominate the world. At least this brings it on a little sooner.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

107 AAA Bonds Says:

@stuckinred:

Nah, I really wish Obama hadn’t gotten us into another war in that region. That’s what I wish.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

108 AAA Bonds Says:

@stuckinred:

Insofar as a high school student reading a high school textbook about the Barbary Wars is more of an expert than your average American on the street, yes, I am an expert.

Sad but true!

It will be interesting to watch the cognitive dissonance as we continue to deal with the shame and guilt over our other wars in the midst of justifying this one.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

109 Canadian Observer Says:

No Blood for Oil, No War for Exxon Mobil and BP!

March 19th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

110 stuckinred Says:

@Canadian Observer: With Canadian jets.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

111 Canadian Observer Says:

@stuckinred

Yes, we’re Poland to your USSR. A subservient satellite to a world-wide tyranny.

Proud?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

112 BGinCHI Says:

I wish Obama had said: “Hey, we’re busy, you guys handle this.”

These other countries are getting rusty at Imperialism.

I would endorse a strike on Qaddafy and his sons if it was clean, which it probably wouldn’t be.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

113 Yutsano Says:

@stuckinred: Stop your durn facts you! You’re gonna spoil his poutrage!

March 19th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

114 AAA Bonds Says:

@Canadian Observer:

That “Blood for Oil” shit is pretty stupid. There’s a long, long list of reasons why Gaddafi is getting thrown to the wolves by the Arab League, and why we and Europe are pretty happy to wage war.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

115 Canadian Observer Says:

And let’s remember there will be increased cases of cancer, birth defects, and male sterility in Libya from all the Depleted Uranium used in Western ordinance.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

116 Corner Stone Says:

@BGinCHI:

I would endorse a strike on Qaddafy and his sons if it was clean, which it probably wouldn’t be.

Does he have any more daughters? Let’s not be sexist in this New Era of Civility at BJ.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

117 MikeJ Says:

@AAA Bonds: I think he’s a spoof just trying to make your side look dumber.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

118 Canadian Observer Says:

You mean the “Arab League” full of country ruled by American Empire puppet governments like the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Morocco, etc?

Excuse me if I’m not astonished by that.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

119 WaterGirl Says:

@Martin:

The lean is that we’re going the shit we’re good at so that other countries can do the shit that they can do as effectively as us.

I think that’s smart. I have no problem with that division of labor. I am not crazy about the fact that we are involved, but I don’t see how we could have either abstained from the UN vote or voted against it, and if it’s the right thing to do I am okay with moving forward as long as we are smart and don’t cross a line we can’t come back from.

I didn’t quite catch what you were saying about France being eager to lead the charge. The word “though” threw me off, I think. If you get a second, maybe you could say more?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

120 Canadian Observer Says:

A few cents at the pump and billions for oil corporations and war profiteers.

This is what BO is doing this for.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

121 Martin Says:

@AAA Bonds: Well, I don’t understand why people are so dense about how these things play out. We always said Egypt was an ally right up to the moment that we told Mubarak it was time to step down. You deal with the people you need to deal with, until the moment you don’t need to deal with them anymore.

Regarding Yemen, we’ve dealt with the government because we needed to in order to deal with Al Qaeda there. The problem with Yemen is that there’s a larger radical population there. Would an overthrow lead to a democratic government or an Al Qaeda one? I don’t know. I don’t know if the State Department knows. But if it lead to the former, to a government we thought we could continue to deal with, then yeah, I think we’d support doing in Yemen what’s happening in Libya, and whatever support or letters we’ve sent in the past mean nothing toward that decision.

Would we do the same in Bahrain? No. We’re not going to start a war with Saudi Arabia. There are better ways of influencing them.

Look, I’m not totally sold on what’s going on in Libya (and I too would feel better if Congress had voted on it), but I’m going to defend the effort against charges that this is another Iraq or another Afghanistan. It doesn’t look anything like either. It might be an idiotic idea, but the closest parallel to it is the first Gulf War, which achieved the near term goal and left a long-term (but contained) mess. If people want to make an argument against this effort (and that isn’t all that hard) then make it on what’s germane to the actual situation and not something that people are pissed off about from 10 years ago that has nothing to do with this.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

122 AAA Bonds Says:

@Yutsano:

I cannot fathom the right-wing mind that would characterize opposition to another American war as “pouting”.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

123 Yutsano Says:

@Canadian Observer: Oh my. It must gourd you that your pathetic little country only exists by the whims and benevolence of the Great American Empire. How DO you manage to get out of bed in the morning?

@AAA Bonds: I oppose this war. I also oppose hyperbolic actions that serve no purpose than to push emotional buttons. Your criticism is unfounded.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

124 stuckinred Says:

@AAA Bonds: Missed that class huh?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

125 BGinCHI Says:

@Corner Stone: Baby steps.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

126 Canadian Observer Says:

Yutsano—
Typical yank arrogance. The Empire will fall, China is already close to burying you and given another 20 years they will.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

127 MikeJ Says:

@AAA Bonds: If you follow the thread back Yutsy was discussing the Canadian war machine. The “American” war didn’t enter into it.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

128 jl Says:

I have been trying to think what strong principled statement I have on the Libyan issue, but I don’t have any. I try say constructive things, and do not generally sympathize with ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ and ‘curse on both your houses’ poses.

But in this case I have nothing constructive to say. I do not want to see the US in more military adventures of any kind right now. But I sympathize with the hellish situation of ordinary people who have to live under monsters like Gaddafi, and the extra hellish situation of the Libyan rebels.

The US, and other European nations, have supped with the long spoon with many unsavory characters in that region (Likud, Saudis, Gaddafi himself) for years, and is irretrievably mired in loathsome hypocrisy and oppression.

But you cannot glut your economy on debt and cheap oil without dealing with monstrous people in the region.

Jefferson wrote that the road from oppressive government to true democracy would take centuries and oceans of blood, and would have to be driven by cultural developments within each country. Allowing that to happen is incompatible with gimme cheap oi now now now, so it hasn’t and won’t happen.

No good choices for the US, if you include democratic ideals and integrity in the mix. Now, governments like that of China’s which have no particular claim to those items, that is a different matter.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

129 Martin Says:

@Canadian Observer: Fuck you. If Obama wanted to accomplish that, there’s easier and cheaper ways to do it. And since France is leading this effort – why aren’t you blaming Sarkozy for this? Why not just blame the tsunami on Obama as well – that drove up natural gas prices, which return much more profit to the US than oil does.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

130 stuckinred Says:

@Martin: Because it’s a troll.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

131 AAA Bonds Says:

@Martin:

We’ve been playing pattycake with Libya for years and years now. That’s one thing the media was really quick to forget once the worm turned.

I’m not able to stretch my mind to encompass your analogy between Iraq’s invasion of another country’s territory and a civil war over who runs Libya, but it’s a valiant attempt on your part.

Here’s another thing: as far as Iraqis are concerned, America has been waging war there since the First Gulf War and the establishment of no-fly zones, over four American presidencies. Which is true.

This is one problem America (like many countries) seems to have: we appear to believe that none of our wars count as wars unless we admit it to ourselves in print.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

132 Alex S. Says:

@jl:

I knew about them, but just now I realized that Sweden was involved, too, haha…

March 19th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

133 estamm Says:

Yeah! UK Won! Eat it! I don’t like Calipari’s one and done attitude, but you have to say that he is an incredible coach. If Wall and Cousins didn’t go to the NBA, this team would have been undefeated right now and would have probably won it all. As it is, with mostly freshman, they still made it to the sweet 16. The NCAA obviously doesn’t like Cal either… KY got a sucky 4 seed and Florida (who KY beat 2 out of 3 times this year) got a 2 seed in an easy bracket.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

134 Canadian Observer Says:

The French and British are satellites of The Empire, they can only resist the more stupid Imperial ventures like Iraq, but usually when the US says “jump” they say “how high?”

At least Germany had the good sense to keep out.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

135 jl Says:

@AAA Bonds:

That is true. If anything, I think the fact that Libya has lots of oil has been the reason things have moved so slowly and deliberately to make sure everyone is on board before moving.

Gaddafi is a murderous nut (whether he had a hand in the airline bombing or not) and lots of people want to see him go, if it can be done while controlling the costs.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

136 AAA Bonds Says:

@MikeJ:

What a bizarre misdirect. Yutsano was indirectly replying to a Canadian decrying the use of force in the region by pointing out the comment that Canadian jets were involved, something the original poster also denounced.

The “poutrage” comment is infantile nationalism at its finest.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

137 Corner Stone Says:

@MikeJ:

If you follow the thread back Yutsy was discussing the Canadian war machine. The “American” war didn’t enter into it.

Where was he discussing this? I just searched the thread and he commented on US missiles being fired then he dropped a questionable addendum to something stuckinred said.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

138 MikeJ Says:

@jl:

But I sympathize with the hellish situation of ordinary people who have to live under monsters like Gaddafi, and the extra hellish situation of the Libyan rebels.

A lot of people sympathised with Kitty Genovese but didn’t want the imperial war machine of the NYPD to drive up oil prices.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

139 AAA Bonds Says:

@Martin:

I will blame the living daylights out of Sarkozy, Cameron, and their respective right-wing parties for this as well.

Just like here, they have a lot of old horses in their government who are looking to settle Reagan-era scores with Libya.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

140 AAA Bonds Says:

@MikeJ:

Your Genovese analogy is terrible. This is a war. We are waging war against another country’s government. No one is “calling the police” or “shooting the murderer” or whatever fantasy you’re using to justify our unwise entry into war in Africa.

I’m also curious: when are we going to bomb official positions in Yemen? Bahrain? Saudi Arabia? What about all their Kitty Genoveses?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

141 Gravenstone Says:

@Canadian Observer: Your chain, she is very yankable, no? Now, pound sand you useless twat.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

142 BGinCHI Says:

Joe Sestak being interviewed on MSNBC. He must sleep in his suit just in case anyone important calls.

And for those who wish for a Congressional vote on this, what do you think the House will do?

1. GOP votes in lockstep against because Obama wants it.

or

2. They vote for it because they never met a shooting they didn’t like?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

143 Yutsano Says:

@Corner Stone: Sigh. High snark is so hard to carry out when you’re being taken literally.

@BGinCHI: Option 1. Remember that one must be opposed and defeated regardless of the consequences.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

144 JGabriel Says:

The Pentagon is reportedly calling the military action in Libya, Operation Oddysey Dawn.

What the fuck does that even mean? Operation Long Trip To Sunrise? Operation Ancient Greek Tribal Leader’s Morning Light?

Do they just throw a bunch of adjectives and nouns from Hollywood war movie titles in a blender and randomly combine them?

.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

145 AAA Bonds Says:

I mean, I understand Iran has some pretty brutal policies against pro-democracy movements there.

Shouldn’t we just start bombing the hell out of them, too?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

146 Martin Says:

@WaterGirl: I think it’s smart as well, but I don’t really trust that we’ll leave it to that. Even if we left the air cover to other countries, at some point close air support will be needed, and we’re really damn good at that as well – and have the assets sitting right there. So, I doubt we’ll stay as removed from this as I would prefer.

France was the first to call for a no-fly. They have officially recognized the rebel group as the official government of Libya. They were the first to commit to force there. They’ve even suggested taking military command of this effort, rather than have the US do it. I don’t fully understand Frances relationship to Libya, but they appear to be vastly more motivated to take Gaddafi out than we are.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

147 The Sheriff's A Ni- Says:

@AAA Bonds: Why is it unwise? How is it unwise?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

148 Yutsano Says:

@Martin:

I don’t fully understand Frances relationship to Libya

Proximity and a good vacation spot, plus oil. The Libyans didn’t just feed Italy’s oil lust.

EDIT: Plus Sarkozy is more than happy to have a Wag the Dog moment to cover up his own political issues in France.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

149 Corner Stone Says:

@Yutsano: Oh! MikeJ was laying down the snark. Thanks!

March 19th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

150 AAA Bonds Says:

@Yutsano:

Sarcasm can be incisive, because it establishes a statement’s meaning (you’re criticizing the position your words endorse).

Snark is the child’s version of sarcasm – the position-less kind that allows you to backpedal instantly when you’re called on it.

1 Corinthians 13:11.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

151 MikeJ Says:

@AAA Bonds:

I’m also curious: when are we going to bomb official positions in Yemen? Bahrain? Saudi Arabia?

When it’s winnable. I don’t really have a problem with war per se. Get all the countries in the region to take the lead, get the yurpians out in front, sure, we can send the navy over for some support.

You really want to argue that because we can’t everybody we shouldn’t help anybody? Because that’s just about the dumbest goddamned excuse for an argument I’ve heard.

@Yutsano:

High snark is so hard to carry out when you’re being taken literally.

Because you are a bad, bad man.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

152 BGinCHI Says:

@JGabriel: I think it’s from the movie “Superbad.”

March 19th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

153 The Sheriff's A Ni- Says:

@Martin: France has had a bug up their ass about Gadaffi since at least Chad’s Toyota Wars, maybe earlier than that.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

154 Alex S. Says:

An exceptionally stupid piece by Pamela Geller:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.....-bush.html

She says that the protesters are calling for Bush Jr. ‘just like they did in Iran’... however, at the very end of the article, it is revealed that the libyan rebels (the one rebel she cites) are actually calling for Bush, the Elder (and his no-fly zone). You’d hardly know it from reading the article…

And it’s even more stupid because of historical facts like these:
http://www.time.com/time/world.....66,00.html

March 19th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

155 Linkmeister Says:

@AAA Bonds: Actually no. It’s only in the past five years or so that we’ve dealt with Qaddafi on anything close to a polite basis. Before that we ostracized him as much as we could.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

156 Omnes Omnibus Says:

@JGabriel: The general practice is that operations are named just as you say. List of adjectives. List of nouns. Combine at random.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

157 Yutsano Says:

@MikeJ: I suppose I had better get busy hanging the shame curtains then. And this thread is so close to achieving critical mass too.

@Omnes Omnibus: That’s not the worst part. The real funny thing is the person who thinks of those probably makes a shit ton more money than we do.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

158 BGinCHI Says:

@Alex S.:

An exceptionally stupid piece by Pamela Geller

Couldn’t get past that.

That woman is a fucking liar.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

159 BombIranForChrist Says:

@Svensker:

Rumor has it that Pliny the Elder is one of the best beers in America. I will soon see. Then, inevitably, tequila.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

160 WaterGirl Says:

@JGabriel: One of the dictionary definitions is a long wandering and eventful journey, so I guess Oddysey Dawn would be the beginning of the long wandering and eventful journey.

Can I just say that I am not happy with the idea of the word “long” being used in this context?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

161 AAA Bonds Says:

@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:

We have a war, now. It’s a war of our choosing. Gaddafi didn’t attack us.

How do we win it? When do we lose and go home? What happens if we start losing? What happens if we win? Who ends up in charge? What if some people in Libya don’t like the people we helped put in charge? What if WE don’t like the people who end up in charge? What if we need to put in ground troops? “Military advisors”? What if we help members of the Arab League put in ground troops – meaning they’re answerable to Arab despots with their own agendas?

The reason it’s unwise is because – just like Iraq, just like Afghanistan – we’ve once again taken responsibility for a series of very complicated future events that nobody wants to own.

The best possible result for us as a country now is to farm out the ground action to someone else and abdicate our gigantic responsibilities and hope it works out and that we’re not blamed for our complicity when it’s someone else accidentally frying civilians for the next couple years. There is certainly precedent for this.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

162 Litlebritdifrnt Says:

@MikeJ:

Shut up! sob now we just have to hope that France beats Wales, lawd I never thought I would find myself rooting for France under any circumstances. My guess is they will throw the game to keep England from the Championship (and a Grand Slam shot) they hate us that much.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

163 JGabriel Says:

@Omnes Omnibus:

The general practice is that operations are named just as you say. List of adjectives. List of nouns. Combine at random.

Meaning is irrelevant? Sadly, that would not surprise me.

.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

164 Corner Stone Says:

@BombIranForChrist:

Then, inevitably, tequila

Which tequila will you inevitably be drinking?
Or is it “what tequila…?”

March 19th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

165 BGinCHI Says:

@BombIranForChrist: Wow.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/863/7971

Doubt we’ll see it here.

Had an amazing London stout last night, with the uninspiring name of Meantime. Dry with a chocolaty finish (4.5% abv).

March 19th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

166 stuckinred Says:

@AAA Bonds: I’d start by locking you up.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

167 MikeJ Says:

@JGabriel: It least the US meets in the Sitch room. The Brits have COBRA meetings. Cabinet Office Building Room A. But it sounds eviler. And of course they all talk with that weird accent, trying make people think they;re cool and stuff.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

168 JGabriel Says:

@WaterGirl:

Can I just say that I am not happy with the idea of the word “long” being used to label this conflict?

Yes, that’s the implication of the name that I find particularly troubling too.

.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

169 Corner Stone Says:

@JGabriel: I think Tom Clancy told me a computer randomly generates names so code crackers can’t guess anything about needed personnel, places, times, etc.
Of course, that’s not for the political posing PR purposes like “Enduring Freedom”.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

170 stuckinred Says:

@JGabriel: You’d like “Operation Short Time” better?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

171 MikeJ Says:

@Litlebritdifrnt:

My guess is they will throw the game to keep England from the Championship (and a Grand Slam shot) they hate us that much.

The after game guys were speculating that Sarkozy was now on the phone telling them to lie down.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

172 AAA Bonds Says:

@MikeJ:

You really want to argue that because we can’t everybody we shouldn’t help anybody? Because that’s just about the dumbest goddamned excuse for an argument I’ve heard.

Whoa, I got a little dizzy reading that. For a second I thought I’d clicked over a tab and was reading a Charles Krauthammer column from February 2003. I do wish he would swear more, really let loose on us.

@Linkmeister:

This serves as an adequate example of most of the replies – they admit I’m right and quibble over irrelevancies.

Let’s go even further than conceding your point. Let’s say that we’ve only been friendly with Libya over the last four years (not true, but let’s say it is). Do you see how your “correction” does the exact same work as my original statement?

March 19th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

173 Martin Says:

@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: IIRC, they really went after Libya over Lockerbie – they had a few nationals on board. I also think this goes back long before Sarkozy.

But all of these european countries have owned some part of Africa at one time or another. Chad makes sense. They all still seem to have some residual loyalty to former colonial regions.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

174 JGabriel Says:

MikeJ:

The Brits have COBRA meetings. Cabinet Office Building Room A. But it sounds eviler.

Huh. I always thought that was just some GI Joe-type toy story. Turns out, it’s not.

.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

175 AAA Bonds Says:

Well, heading outside to catch some lingering daylight and 75-degree weather. No reason this has to be a completely bad day for everyone.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

176 WaterGirl Says:

@stuckinred: I know you didn’t ask me, but I’d like:

Operation Just a Day or Two and Then It Will Be Over

or how about

Operation Gadaffi, Over and Out

March 19th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

177 JGabriel Says:

stuckinred:

You’d like “Operation Short Time” better?

Heh. Honestly, yes, I would.

.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

178 JPL Says:

Gee, I go outside to do more yard work and someone took over the basketball blog.

March 19th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

179 scav Says:

@Yutsano:

EDIT: Plus Sarkozy is more than happy to have a Wag the Dog moment to cover up his own political issues in France.

Oh yeah, he’s been pinging my baby-Bush counter for a long time (he pings on the Napoleon wanna-be meter too, little twit’s like a dodgey atom in a geiger counter factory as best I can tell). Anybody else see this ticking away underneath, to add to that govt’s issues after Tunisia?
Sarkozy election campaign was funded by Libya &mdash Gaddafi son
Saif al-Islam threatens to publish details of bank transfers to punish French PM for backing Libyan rebels (via Guardian)

March 19th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

180 The Sheriff's A Ni- Says:

@AAA Bonds:

We have a war, now. It’s a war of our choosing. Gaddafi didn’t attack us.

Yes, it is a war of our choosing, and – Lockerbie aside – Gaddafi never attacked us. Even so, when you see a massive tragedy in the making, with people asking for our help, do you just stand aside and say ‘sorry, too risky, tough luck?’

How do we win it?

By neutering Gaddafi and restoring stability to Libya or whatever may succeed the Libyan state.

When do we lose and go home? What happens if we start losing? What happens if we win?

I’m not sure how you can ‘lose’. We didn’t ‘lose’ Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. We didn’t ‘win’ either. Victory conditions may be white and black, but that doesn’t mean the end result will fall neatly along those lines.

Who ends up in charge? What if some people in Libya don’t like the people we helped put in charge?

Democracy’s a messy thing. This being a UN-sanctioned intervention, odds are you’ll be seeing the peacekeeping done by the baby blue helmets and not just the Americans.

What if WE don’t like the people who end up in charge?

If that was the case I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t be launching Tomahawks right now.

What if we need to put in ground troops? “Military advisors”? What if we help members of the Arab League put in ground troops – meaning they’re answerable to Arab despots with their own agendas?

See above. And do the Egyptians still count as being answerable to ‘Arab despots’?

The reason it’s unwise is because – just like Iraq, just like Afghanistan – we’ve once again taken responsibility for a series of very complicated future events that nobody wants to own.

And this is where you’re completely wrong. Afghanistan was a NATO Section Somethingorother action courtesy of Al Qaeda’s attack on the United States. Iraq was Bush and Blair telling the international community GFY and going in on their own. Here we have the blessing of the United Nations on top of a bunch of other nations more than willing to help out. This is apples and oranges compared to Bush’s, or even Clinton’s wars.

The best possible result for us as a country now is to farm out the ground action to someone else and abdicate our gigantic responsibilities and hope it works out and that we’re not blamed for our complicity when it’s someone else accidentally frying civilians for the next couple years. There is certainly precedent for this.

Which is exactly what we’re doing. Its like Martin or MikeJ said, we’re helping out where we can doing what we can to assist. We’re not carrying the load.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

181 scav Says:

@scav: Not that I necessarily trust the Gaddafi version, it’s just that Sarko and friends have been surfing close enough to that crowd to make it very possible. FYWP for non-edit capabilities.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

182 Comrade Luke Says:

@Ed in NJ:

Top to bottom best league in the country. Not even up for debate. Deal with it. (this is how the SEC and every football commentator sounds each football season).

Gonzaga 86, St John’s 71. Deal with it.

We’ll see what happens next time, should we be allowed in the presence of the mighty Big East again in this tournament.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

183 The Sheriff's A Ni- Says:

@Martin: You missed out on the Toyota Wars then. Its one of those forgotten wars, but the French and Libyans were active at it with each other a couple times.

Operation Manta

Operation Epervier

Hell, I didn’t even know Epervier was still on-going.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

184 burnspbesq Says:

@MikeJ:

Harvard became the crimson in the 1850s, when Harvard and Union both showed up for a big crew race wearing pink. The organizers put Harvard in crimson and Union in garnet, and those remain both schools’ colors to this day. And yes, there is a difference between crimson and garnet: crimson is closer to red and garnet is a deep maroon.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

185 MikeJ Says:

@MikeJ: BTW, France 28-9 Wales

March 19th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

186 burnspbesq Says:

@Canadian Observer:

Yeah, and all Canada has done for oil is create unimaginable environmental disaster on a provincial scale.

Fuck off, you sanctimonious ass.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

187 Yevgraf (fka Michael) Says:

Cruising the right wing webs, the consensus seems to be that this proves just how much Obama hates America. If he loved it, he would have acted unilaterally weeks ago, just to show how swagger and arms freakin’ ROCKS, even if it would wind up with a lengthy and pointless occupation that would kill thousands of troops and maim countless others while annoying allies, alienating others, and further alienation biillions of others.

Other parts of the wingnut web (a sizeable minority) are saying that this proves how incompetent Obama is because the rebels are worse than Khadafy.

I hate those fuckers.

March 19th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

188 Gian Says:

@Comrade Luke:

Big east, home to the first #1 seed to lose in the tourney, as Pitt falls to Butler. the word for the Big East is OVERRATED. Louisville went gentle into the good night
and Georgetown went under to VCU…

Marquette pulled an upset, but seriously Big East was the big overrated

March 19th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

189 Paul in KY Says:

@The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: We’re going to start having ‘Freshman Day’ at the last home game of each year Coach Cal is with us.

March 21st, 2011 at 8:18 am

190 Paul in KY Says:

@moe99: Coach Smith wouldn’t make any changes to his staff or recruiting practices. We were slipping in last 3 or 4 years under him.

That said, I would have rather had another 2 years of Tubby than Mr. Gillespie.

March 21st, 2011 at 8:21 am

March Madness Open Thread

190 Responses to “March Madness Open Thread”

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