Reading through this morning’s Wisconsin stories in the WSJ and the Times, both of which discuss a possible return by Democrats (though the WSJ story is being walked back), I’m left wondering how Wisconsin public unions, and Democrats, lose in the long run.
If Walker caves on the collective bargaining requirement, it’s a clear win for the unions. Since his singular virtue seems to be a Bush-like stubborn consistency in the face of overwhelming public disregard, I doubt that’s going to happen.
If the Democrats return and Republicans pass the collective bargaining ban, union members and Democrats are united and energized to reach an achievable goal of flipping the Assembly and Senate in 2012, and making Walker a one-term governor, if not the subject of a recall.
Both of these outcomes leave Democrats and unions in a far better position than they were on January 1.
I’m not saying that losing is actually winning when viewed through the prism of eleven dimensional strategy. It just seems pretty obvious that any outcome where the base is highly energized, and independent voters identify strongly with the Democrats’ positions, is a very encouraging outcome in a state that routinely elects Democrats.
jinxtigr
Sure. Never underestimate the blindly obvious. Sometimes conventional wisdom blows a seam exactly when it trips over the blindly obvious. See: dutch tulips, dotcom crash, real estate valuation bubble.
Nick
or they complain and say Democrats are wimps and gave up and stay home/vote Republican in 2012.
lllphd
the dems are most definitely walking back that misquote in the wsj; there is no plan to return and give walker a win.
in fact, at the rally this saturday, there was talk about plant for farmers in the surrounding dade county area to drive their tractors in as a show of support for the protesters. time to get john mellencamp and willie nelson on board.
and, in case you missed it, the rally this weekend featured a bevvy of various examples of the tacky plastic palm trees, just for those faux news boys.
this thing is not going away anytime soon. unless, of course, walker caves.
JPL
I agree with Nick. Without a compromise, the party will be demoralized.
El Cid
Well, even if there are political benefits from the current fight, it’s still very possible — maybe likely — that collective bargaining for public workers would not be restored.
Luthe
Just to provide the morning dose of cynicism, I remind you that the Dems have a habit of snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. Not that they will, but someone had to say it.
(Call me Eeyore. It’s early and I’m grumpy.)
JPL
Maybe, if the Senators were brought in handcuffs to the statehouse, that would be a powerful picture and encourage Democrats to vote.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
ReaLAMErica will lose because Koch Bros. Inc, (praise them with great praise) will sulk and stop the majickal job faeries from blessing us with jobs and Obama (boo hiss) will thrust sochulust unions down our throats!
Or something.
R-Jud
@El Cid:
There’s also the matter of the power plants being sold off, which is also allowed in this bill. Would they be able to get them back after a recall if Walker sold them in the interim?
Snarki, child of Loki
The GOP are masters of changing the subject, using distraction and the latent (or not so latent) ADHD tendencies of the american public to defuse justified outrage.
So it’s best to strike now, while the issue is right in everyone’s face. If the Dem senators come back, yes, the results will be outrageous, but the outrage will fade in time for the next election.
El Cid
@R-Jud: Zackly.
agrippa
I can’t, obviously, predict the future any better than anyone else.
But the best way, in my view, of having an effect goes along these lines: educate yourself, inform yourself. Take action to get competent/capable progressives to run for office. That is what we need: competent/capable progressives in office.
What the WI Democrats should do is a political calculation. I think that a recall is an effective means.
RAM
There’s a third option, too, and that’s that enough Repubs–I think it would take two or three–would be nervous enough to vote against Walker’s bill. I read a few stories on Saturday suggesting that there is some second guessing going on in the GOP caucus. Apparently, there’s nothing like an on-going recall effort in districts where the GOP only won by 1,000 or so votes to concentrate the mind. That’s probably as unlikely a result as Walker deciding to give up his delusions of fascist glory, but it’s still a possibility.
Keith G
Isn’t it amazing though, how by being hateful to the point of bararism, that the GOP is able to so effectively move the limits on what could be considered a workable compromise?
It’s a wonderful life here in the Rebuplic of Koch.
NonyNony
At this point, I don’t think that the Dems can come back to the capitol voluntarily. They need to be arrested by the state troopers and brought back to the capitol clearly under duress. Because that’s what Walker wanted when he issued his warrant and that’s what he should get. 14 Democratic Senators being frog-marched into the capitol building to cast their empty No votes against a hugely unpopular bill in this case of Republican overreach is exactly what he’s asking for, so why not give it to him?
Speaking of recalls – I read a while back that while Walker needs to be in office for a year before he can be recalled there were some Republican Senators who could be recalled and there was talk about starting the process now.
Anyone know if that process got started and where it is now? Because it sure would be sweet, sweet justice to watch some Republican Senators squirm because of this crap that Walker decided to pull.
jwb
@Snarki, child of Loki: I agree with you about the fading rage. It’s now in the recall phase for a number of senators, and my understanding is that it’s possible to flip the senate back to Dem control by recalling and electing Dems to a portion of those (my recollection is they need to flip four seats, but whatever the number it is in the realm of possibility). That seems like the most likely scenario for a clear “win” for labor and the Dems. On the other hand, it’s not yet certain that this strategy will work and, if it doesn’t, there aren’t many good alternatives for the Dems since the legislature does need to pass a budget for next year and they need a quorum to do that.
ETA: The other possibility is that enough GOP senators break ranks that the bill won’t go forward, but I’m finding that possibility increasingly remote.
liberal
OT: Krugman’s column in today’s NYT is a must read. Points out that large numbers of white collar jobs done by highly educated people are being computerized, and that investment in education is no longer sufficient to build/maintain a middle class.
Omnes Omnibus
@NonyNony: Recall info here.
liberal
@R-Jud:
I don’t see how. Smells of Fletcher v. Peck.
Trakker
I’m wondering why the Democrats haven’t used their one bargaining tool more effectively.
Tell Walker and the Republicans this has gone on long enough, and unless they take all the union busting provisions out of the bill by next Monday, the unions will take their previously agreed-to concessions off the table and Walker will be back to square one. He and the Repubs will have to negotiate to get them back, and BOTH sides will have to make concessions instead of just the unions.
The Democrats will then agree to return next Tuesday to begin those negotiations – BUT if the Republicans take advantage of the Democrat’s return and pass the current bill as is, the public unions will all go on strike, shutting down the state until those offending provisions are repealed.
meh
seems to me the downside would be the goldfish-like attention span of voters. Let’s say the Dems come back, lose the vote, unions lose collective bargaining rights going forward. What happens? probably 3 months of anti-walker ads, ads bashing republicans, etc – and after about 3 months they start tapering off. He will then do some populist non-sense bill like holding show trials for ACORN or the Black Panthers or some other GOP/Old White People boogeyman that the disaffected union workers who vote GOP can get behind (albeit grudgingly). In the end, they lose a couple of seats but that’s about it. The GOP has broken the public sector unions and given a playbook about how to do it. Remember – GOP SOP – Lie, misdirect, blame the other guy, rinse and repeat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trakker: There is more than just collective bargaining in the bill. Power plant sales and state medicaid rights are also among the things that would be affected. This bill needs to be killed entirely.
stuckinred
Chou En Lai was reportedly once asked what he thought was the historic impact of the French Revolution. After considering the question for a moment he replied:
It’s too soon to tell.
meh
@Trakker:
because right now that is their leverage and they are using it – “See Wisconsin? We agreed to the cuts and they just want to fuck us!!” – take that off the table and it falls right back into intractable dem vs. gop stalemate BS which the GOP spins better than Dems.
Jay C
“Is there a lose here“? Well, yes – a major “lose” when/if Gov. Walker gets to shove through his union-busting BS; not to mention the other wonderful crap he and his GOP pals have got planned for the state, such as the no-oversight power-plant-operation stuff, etc.: and the main losers will, naturally, be the people of Wisconsin.
Which battle, I think, the Repubs are unfortunately going to win. This time. They, and their creature Walker, have been backed into a corner, and their only hope to maintain control, and control of their agenda, in the face of such massive public disapproval is to use their majority NOW: while they still have it, and hope the firestorm dies down.
Which I don’t think it will. The initial battle may be lost: but the next skirmish in the campaign might have a much rosier outcome: the first Republican official to fall victim to a recall will, I think, prove the event that will collapse the whole GOP/Teatard regime like a house of cards.
I think the events in Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio have finally proved that today’s Republicans have little more than contempt for public opinion: or rather, any public opinion which doesn’t reinforce their own stock narratives/prejudices – maybe the sight of a few of them actually losing those positions of power they have so carefully bought will bring the principles of democracy into a little clearer focus for them…
Baud
@Nick: Inconceivable.
Dork
But of course, by then, they will have passed another 1,584 bills that all require 2/3rds or 8/9ths of a majority vote to rescind, etc.
The amount of irreversible damage this guy could do in 1 year is staggering. Wisky will be fucked for decades.
debbie
I know this is off topic, but it deals with what could be a real lose. For those in northern Ohio, here’s an e-mail I received this morning:
The extreme groups behind the dangerous campaign to bar Planned Parenthood from receiving federal funding are bringing their lies to Toledo. They are coming to attack Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur for her vote to support Planned Parenthood and family planning health care – and we need you to be there to stop them and help us tell the truth. We’re counting on you to join us to stand up to these dangerous attacks on Planned Parenthood. This is especially important because the U.S. Senate may vote on our funding as early as Tuesday, March 8.
We know it is short notice and it may be difficult for you to make it but we need you, your friends and family by our side. It’s critical that we demonstrate our community’s strong support for Planned Parenthood. We need you to say NO to taking away family planning and birth control, lifesaving cancer screenings and testing for HIV and other diseases from the women in our community.
You won’t be able to miss us – we’re traveling in a big pink bus. All you’ll need to do is show up, stand up, and speak the truth with us. Bring your co-workers. Your sisters. Your mom. Your husband and sons. Your friends. Bring everyone you know who cares about women’s health care, about Planned Parenthood and most importantly the people we serve,
Here are all the details:
8AM – Tuesday, March 8, 2011
Office of Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur
One Maritime Plaza
Toledo, OH 43604
This is the chance to stand up to the people behind this outrageous assault on us, on our services, on women. We plan on doing it with dignity and truth, and we hope you’ll be right there with us – just as you always are.
See you there,
Gary Dougherty
State Legislative Director
Planned Parenthood Affiliates of Ohio
Jay C
@R-Jud:
I think the “power-plant” business isn’t so much a sell-off of State-owned assets (though that may be in the bill as well), but a provision that the contracts to operate them may be awarded by whatever official is responsible without competitive bidding, or indeed, much oversight whatsoever, IIRC.
I’m hazy as to the details: e.g., if the State of WI would get paid for the contracts (and the operator try to squeeze a profit out of the plants), or whether it’s just a straight crony-capitalist giveaway: but the main abuse is the removal of oversight, giving unreviewable power to unelected officials to dispose of publicly-owned assets.
joe from Lowell
@stuckinred: Wise words.
The future is not yet written. Sure, we can handicap the race, but the runners still have to run it.
tom
@Luthe: In the long run I see what you mean. Maybe they’ll flub recall efforts. But for now, what’s so great about the Dems efforts here is that they are up against nearly impossible odds. For once, they are snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.
Just Some Fuckhead
Too many on the left have a tendency to define victory downward.
Nick
@Trakker: Because then it will be the Democrats who look unreasonable.
The way to win in politics is to make your opponent look unreasonable. The reason the Democrats are winning is because they were willing to compromise in the first place.
Walker
The lose is the firesale of public lands that Walker (no relation) is also trying to push through. That is not something you get back with a new assembly and governor.
geg6
@Jay C:
From everything I have read, it is actually a sell-off of the state-owned assets, not just the contracts to operate them. An actual loss of state-owned assets for a price to be, basically, named by the purchaser because there will be absolutely no oversight of the sales.
I’m of the mind that there may be some GOPer senators there who are in danger of the recall fight (for which I gave some cash last week) who may be more than a little nervous and may be flipped. All they need is 2.
Boots Day
Hey, remember when all those right-wingers were saying that the Dems shouldn’t pass health care reform, because it was polling badly and was clearly going against the will of the people? Now would be a good time to ask all those people what they think of Scott Walker’s hugely unpopular union-busting plan.
Trakker
@meh:
Yes, I see the pitfalls, but I’m worried that our success rests on 14 human beings who have been living in hotels, having to move frequently, being pursued by howling tea partiers, worried about family members, missing birthday parties, etc. It can’t be easy, and it only takes one member to return for the Republicans to pass their bill (a seriously ill child, the death or near death of an elderly parent, sibling, etc. could bring one back to Wisconsin, and who would blame them?).
I think it’s time to ratchet up the pressure on the Republicans. The public understands the unions acted more than responsibly by immediately agreeing to pay more for their benefits. They will understand if the unions decide enough is enough, and take their offer off the table and force Walker to negotiate or shut down the state.
Keith G
@Boots Day: Boots, don’t be a stooge. The concerns about ACA were complicated on both the Right (doing too much) and the Left (doing too little) while there were key parts of ACA that large majorities liked a lot.
Your analogy fails.
Allison Wonderland
@R-Jud: No, because contracts are sacred!
Keith G
Boots, I apologize in advance: as I read your comment (twice) I missed it’s intent and miss interpreted it.
I will sit in a corner for a while and reflect.
Keith G
And why is “Click to Edit” not working in Chrome?
Dustin
@Keith G: Ah yes, that’s why both parties are screaming for it to be repealed and threatening their party leadership for not immediately defunding it. Oh wait, that’s not how it’s happening.
The republican’s were screaming about tilted opinion poll results from Fox news the entire time the ACA was being negotiated. Now there’s not more then an occasional peep about polling numbers against their budget here in WI.
The analogy Boots made works just fine; don’t be an equivalency troll.
Dustin
@Keith G: As for Chrome… since the ‘upgrade’ it’s never worked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trakker: One Senator, Julie Lassa, is seven months pregnant. If she has any medical issues, one could not blame her if she chose to come back to central Wisconsin to see her OB/GYN.
mclaren
Arguably the Democrats’ biggest win was John Kerry losing the presidency in 2004.
Can you imagine where progressives would be today if Kerry had presided over the collapse of the global economy and the self-destruct of the Iraq and Afghanistan debacles?
You can hear the Faux Noose liars screaming the boilerplate…”We lost Iraq because of liberals! The world economy melted down because of progressive policies!!!”
Boy, did liberals ever dodge a bullet in 2004.
Joey Maloney
@Trakker:
I’m pretty sure that would be illegal under Taft-Hartley. The circumstances under which unions can strike in the USA are remarkably circumscribed, moreso than a lot of people realize.
I was listening to a show called The Takeaway on NPR this morning with half an ear, and I’m afraid I heard one of the Wisconsin 14 making noises about how it was time to declare victory and come home. I hope I heard wrong or it was the host putting words in his mouth.
Mattminus
Losing is losing. Only a Bob Shrum would believe otherwise.
If they give up now with nothing more than a “moral” victory, they deflate all their supporters and, as an added bonus, look weak to people that aren’t invested in either side.
But, since that’s two huge negatives, if we multiply them by each other that’s a positive or something.
Mattminus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fun Fact: Wisconsin is the only state with OB/GYNs in it, and they’re not allowed to cross state lines.
The states economy is based on the fact that everyone that’s pregnant needs to go there.
agrippa
The WI Democrats have to play it to the end. The game must be played for 60 minutes. Do not start what you will not finish.
Joey Maloney
@Mattminus: C’mon, be serious. First of all, ever tried to get an appointment with an OB/GYN as a new patient? There’s a serious shortage out there. My ex had to wait 6 months. Second of all, who wants some stranger of unknown provenance and quality probing at their nethers, especially if there’s even a hint of something non-routine happening?
Third of all, that’d be some fucking awesome visuals, having the State Police handcuff the ill and obviously pregnant state senator to her hospital bed. I can’t imagine God loves me that much.
Sad Iron
I hate to throw water on this post, but here’s a few things to keep in mind (and I’m a state worker in Wisconsin).
1. They’re going to pass the voter ID law here, which is going to hurt democratic voters at the voting booths. It just got a lot harder to elect dems here.
2. They’ve already passed the 2/3 vote requirement, which will be required to raise taxes on any level. We’ll soon be California, with reveneu impossible to generate.
3. Even if collective bargaining is restored, Walker has already killed the money source over which to bargain. Universities, for example, are in serious trouble because after years of cuts they have been shown the door–no new revenue or increases in state support will be coming. Ever.
The only way this is going to work is full out “Total Recall” effort where all legislation passed by Walker is repealed. I don’t see ever having enoughh votes now inthe assembly to do that.
The Republic of Stupidity
@Joey Maloney:
It’s early out here on the Coast…
Haven’t had any coffee yet…
So I read THIS line…
And what my mind sees is: remarkably CIRCUMCIZED…
And I go… Ouch, you can say that again…
And then realize… I need coffee…
Mattminus
@Joey Maloney:
I’m sure there are work arounds, and if she thinks her pregnancy is more important than the rights of the people she represents, she needs to find a new job.
Bulworth
I am curious where all this is going. The Wisconsin Dems can’t stay in Illinois forever. Would love to see Walker cave, or some other bargain. But will the public continue to back AWOL Senators forever?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mattminus: Yeah, because all women want a random OB/GYN in working with them in the late stages of pregnancy rather than the carefully selected physician with whom they have an established relationship. Plus, we don’t know that the OB/GYN is going to be willing to drive down from Stevens Point to where ever in Illinois at the drop of a hat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mattminus: Yep, people who serve in the legislature have chosen to risk their lives and the lives of their families. That is why the get hazardous duty pay. Lassa is still out of state and has not indicated that she has any problems of complications. I was simply pointing out one potential problem.
Joey Maloney
@Mattminus:
That, my friend, is a level of dickishness astonishing in its depth and breadth.
Nick
@Bulworth:
I’m not so sure they back them now. Perhaps in the spirit of the law, but no one has polled (thank God) whether or not they think Democrats leaving the state was a good idea. My guess is the public is in one of those “Republicans are wrong, Democrats are also wrong” mindsets.
Mattminus
@Joey Maloney:
Really, I think throwing away the rights of your constituency because you’d really be more comfortable with YOUR doctor is incredibly dickish. We’re talking about the fucking ruling class here, I’m sure arrangements can be made. But if they’re not just what she wants, fuck it, people’s rights are subsidiary to her comfort.
Boots Day
If one Dem senator comes back, does that give the Republicans their desired quorum? If not, I don’t see any problem with one of them returning for medical reasons, and I doubt the other Democrats would have a problem with it either.
Joey Maloney
Mattminus, I’m going to guess that you have never been pregnant.
Moving on…
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/wis-dem-leader-to-walker-lets-meet-at-the-state-line.php
Walker will never go for this. Even if he wasn’t drunk on his own bullshit he has to know that leaving Madison will make him look weak.
aimai
@Mattminus:
Get off your high fucking horse. You are acting like an ass over a situation which hasn’t happened yet, but which (if it does happen) is quite likely to be a life threatening kind of emergency. She hasn’t complained, and she hasn’t come back so why are you going all tough guy on her? Its meanspirited and totally unnecessary. Meanwhile, she and the other Senators are doing what is in their power to do. Really, the ball is in the court of the public–that would be you! What have you sacrificed lately for the working class?
PS: If she’s seven months pregnant I’m sure arrangements *have* been made since she is probably scheduled to see her OBGYN at fairly regular intervals.
aimai
RalfW
My mother-in-law is a staunch WI democrat, but not one to organize, generally. She and dad-in-law went to the Madison protest a weekend ago, and this weekend she went to Milwaukee to get a recall petition for her state Sen and on her way back to her suburban town had already gotten 6 signatures and was plotting which neighborhoods in her (fairly Republican) community to hit for signatures.
This thing really is mobilizing people who may have been Dems, and in her case certainl a regular voter, but now they’re off the couch on cold weekends organizing. That’s strong stuff, Messers Koch!
Mattminus
@aimai:
Someone said no one could blame her if she went back. I said “ORLY, I could”. And then we started talking about the hypothetical. I’ll check with you for the list of approved topics next time.
“What have you sacrificed lately for the working class?”
Can’t you tell? Babies.
Maude
@RalfW:
They’re keepers.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mattminus: Let me rephrase then. No one who is not a dick could blame her.
Nethead Jay
@Joey Maloney: It’s Mattminus. While the dickishness here is severe, it’s always been there.
Nethead Jay
@Sad Iron: I know you’re right there on the ground and I’m not, but I think you’re a little to pessimistic.
AFAIK, they can’t pass the Voter ID law as it it, due to its financial component which neccessitates a quorum, same as with the main battle. And if they remove the financial component, it’s pretty crtain to be ruled unconstitutional.
The 2/3 requirement, unlike in CA, is in a law and not the State Constitution, so can be changed with a simple majority.
I don’t know enough about your 3rd point to speak to it, but a friend of mine, who’s also a state employee like you, thinks most of the damage is reversible, depending on whether they succeed in selling off the power plants. The key thing now is the recall effert.
Judas Escargot (aka ninja fetus with a taste for bruschetta)
@Nethead Jay:
[D]epending on whether they succeed in selling off the power plants.
I’ve never understood how “selling off” state-owned assets works. Didn’t the taxpayers foot the bill for their construction? And now, those assets are to be sold off and used to sell energy back to those same taxpayers for profit. Somebody else’s profit, of course. How does that work?
Morally, IMO those assets aren’t Walkers’ to sell. So what’s the legal argument?
mikeyes
The ironic thing about what is happening in WI is that if Tommy Thompson was governor, not only would most of the legislature being proposed pass, but everyone would think that TT was a hero.
Scott Walker is a terrible politician.
He was handed the office with the mandate (as he says) to fix the fiscal issues in the state. Everyone knew that there were problems, the unions certainly admit to them, and everyone knew that sacrifices have to be made.
Thomson would have made sure that there were hearings held, he would have had well publicized meetings with the Democrats and conceded some minor points, and eventually would have gotten 98% of what he wanted while being hailed as a savior.
Instead Gov. Walker has chosen to look bad, act rashly, and set records for the fastest recall petition movement in the history of the state. He will get what he is demanding – he has an absolute majority – but it won’t be pretty and it certainly will not benefit him in the future.
Oh, and over-estimating the cost of cleanup by a factor of 20X just makes him look stupid.
Sad Iron
@Nethead Jay. I really hope you’re right. Still, even when the unions said they’d give the financial concession in exchange for collective bargaining, that means they also accept the legislation that no raise for public employees can exceed cost of living without a referendum. That troubles me. Still, I appreciate the post and am, well, optimistic that you’re right about me being pessimistic. Basically, if this all goes through, my wife and I will be two PhDs working a minimum of 120 hours a week for about 50k take-home pay between the two of us (all of our raises for the last decade have been held back except for one).
Mike Kay (True Grit)
I’m not sure Walker is a goner in 2014. 4 years is a long time. People have short attention spans and can be easily distracted by other issues.
I realize that staying out state is difficult, but people have donated $600,000 to the WI state senate committee (twice of what they raised during the entire ’08-’10 cycle) and an additional $300,000 to the WI state party.
I think we’ve paid more than fair market value for their services. Stay out, even if it’s for a year.
Mnemosyne
@Mattminus:
Just putting it in terms that there’s a quarter of a chance you might understand. I’m assuming you would literally put your balls on the line for your state with a strange doctor if you were in the same situation she is?
Of course, a vasectomy is a completely optional procedure and she has very little say in when her labor will begin, but I’m guessing you think your balls are far more important than a lowly woman’s health and life so putting it in those terms might give you a teensy measure of empathy.
Probably not, though.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: The boy is an idiot. Not worth the trouble.
Cerberus
Well there is the usual source of a lose:
It takes longer to fix something than it takes to break it.
Think about all the horrible things the Bush Administration did that heavily energized Democrats to get out the vote and heavily incentivized moderates to vote Democrats for 2006 and 2008. Now think about how many things really got fixed that were specifically broken in 2008-2010. This is not to say “Obama didn’t do anything” or even to say “Democrats did a bad job”.
it is simply to say “There was so much to fix and it takes longer to fix than break”. Once collective bargaining was gone, Walker could stonewall and flex his muscles and sell off public utilities and invent new outrages against workers and by the time Democrats are swept back in, the Republican minorities will use every legislative angle they can to prevent the Democrats from addressing everything that got fucked up. The intransigence gets the low-information voter to follow the usual “I’ll vote for the other party to shake things up” response and now there’s another pile of horrible problems that will need to be fixed by the next round of Democrats.
We don’t have the greatest habit in the last 30 years of fixing things Republicans broke. We’ve got such a large list simply to get back to legal status quos of yesteryear, much less things that are dramatic improvements legally (socially life is a hell of a lot better, but in many ways, legal rights, especially economically lag like hell, especially with regards to funding).
So yeah, that would be a big loss if Walker can get this bill through, because he can do enough damage that it’s hard to fix through conservadem and Republican intransigence later.
Nick
@Cerberus:
I think that’s true. Once collective bargaining rights are gone, they’re gone, unless unions start voting 90% Democratic again and give the Dems supermajorities in dozens of state legislatures.
That said, it’s probably gone either way. I don’t want to say unions blew it, because it’s not their fault, but the union members who voted Republican because they wanted to kill Commies and Musims (and don’t say there are any, google ‘Geraldine Ferraro, Belveodere, Illinois Chrysler plant’), they’re the ones who blew it.
MattMinus
@Mnemosyne:
I guess this is the part of the program where liberals become parodies of themselves and everyone they disagree with becomes some sort of -ist.
If I was empowered to represent people on basic human rights like the ability to organize, I’d like to think that I’d go considerably further than getting a vasectomy from a doctor I didn’t have a personal relationship with (in fairness, I let strangers work on my balls all the time in truck stop bathrooms).
This is a relatively unique, and absurd, situation where thousands of peoples rights depend on arbitrary, trivial actions taken by a handful of people. That handful of people accepted the responsibility, and it means a lot,IMHO. There is a utilitarian calculus here, and the good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one.
I would expect anyone who has accepted such a responsibility to accept the reasonable increase in risk brought on by seeing a new doctor at the very least.
If we want to detach it from vagina,because vagina trumps all with a lot of leftists, my point is that these politicians have certain duties, and we’d expect them to make some pretty severe sacrifices to live up to them.
That is all.
jefft452
”Let me rephrase then. No one who is not a dick could blame her.”
Count me as a dick then
It’s not like she is in a yurt, trusting a shaman to perform surgery with shapened reindeer antlers while lying on a dirt floor
Illinois has doctors, and hospital even
Going back ti WI to see a Doc because she is more comfortable would be on par with Palin flying back to Alaska after her water broke
or that clown who was told he had a drug resistant form of TB while in Europe so he got on multiple crowded planes so he could be treated in the US
But no worries, by all evidence, Lassa is far, far, better then that
BruinKid
@Boots Day: Hey, I wanted to ask all those teabaggers the Koch brothers bussed in to Wisconsin who were saying “elections have consequences” if they were saying at the beginning of 2009 when Obama decided to tackle health care reform.