This anonymous comment from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s excellent Web site makes the point far better than I ever could:
Go back to work, teachers. Your union has already sold you down the river. They have agreed to the givebacks that affect YOUR paychecks, while using you to fight against the parts that will affect THEIRS. Did you get to vote before they gave away your benefits? What patsies you all are.
Reader Interactions
66Comments
Comments are closed.
mistermix a.k.a. mastermix
This is just as funny/stupid.
gbear
What an asshole.
Hunter Gathers
Shorter Charles Lane : Please, please, please Fred Hiatt, give me a permanent slot on your opinion page! I promise to push radical conservative talking points as long as you give me a steady paycheck. The cost of blow and hookers keeps rising. What, do you expect me to sleep with my wife? I’ll even come up with new ways of calling Obama a nigger. Please, I beg you!
Alex S.
Then why is Lane still employed at the Post and this blogger isn’t? /snark
Short Bus Bully
Obviously has a GREAT understanding of the collective bargaining process. And remember, this is about rate of pay issues and not the right to bargain for pay, amirite?
matoko_chan
its SOP.
like demagoguing HCR.
what else can they do?
they cant turnoff the birtherism/racism, and the demographic timer is going to doom them to forever defeat.
rikyrah
he can’t help himself. it’s who he is.
Comrade Jake
I gather this means you’ve given up on McMegan, who posted this gem:
Holy shit.
Linnaeus
So let me get this straight:
If the unions agree to any concessions – the very ones conservatives are insisting are necessary – then the union “sold you out” and you should just shut up.
If the unions don’t agree to concessions, then the union is being “unreasonable” and “greedy” and you should just shut up.
What a joke. Reminds me of the occasional anti-union letter we’d get at my local in which someone would complain about having to pay dues or service fees and how we sucked, etc., etc., but then went on to say “our pay is too low! you should do something about that!” Oh, you mean like the raise you just got in the latest contract, perhaps?
gbear
@Short Bus Bully:
And the commenters on that link have such a great understaning of the purpose of elected government:
Conservatives really do think that the purpose of government is to fling poo.
Kryptik
@Comrade Jake:
I suppose McFucknut believes that Teachers don’t do work on Weekends and Summers since they don’t have to walk into the physical school building.
balconesfault
Yes, the thousands of teachers who have been marching saying that it’s not just about the benefits – it’s about the collective bargaining rights – have no idea why they’re marching.
Elizabelle
Here’s your President’s Day bumpersticker:
Second commenter on Lane’s Post Partisan (its correct spelling) blog. “Spiritof1761” writes:
jwb
@gbear: Not to mention which, given their majorities, the Republicans could do this if the Dems were there anyway, so I don’t exactly get how this is supposed to be a threat.
Adam Hyland
Mistermix finds the better quote. The unions concede the budgetary demands but want to maintain collective bargaining and Lane interprets this both as a sign that Walker’s manufactured crisis wasnt manufactured (WTF?) and as a sign that the unions themselves are poor negotiators.
I’m not too shocked, he seems to have a good look at the conservative mindset. It is this kinda bullshit that makes clear why negotiating with these clowns is so fraught.
Allan
@Alex S.: Heh indeed. I just left a voicemail for Fred Hiatt to that general effect. Suggest others do likewise: 202-334-6000
Comrade Jake
@Kryptik:
Were we discussing anyone besides McMegan, the ignorance and callousness would be astonishing. Unfortunately, with her, it’s not.
burnspbesq
Charles Lane has not lost it. Charles Lane never had it.
Marty
Also from the Lane column:
Yeah right!
jcricket
Yeah – unions are bad when they stand up, and bad when they negotiate. They’re just bad. Unamerican Commies even!
But corporate funded teahadists are expressing god’s will, jesus’ commandments and their god-given american rights to protest liberal overreach/government interference with government-sponsored healthcare markets.
You ever note that despite the near constant malfeasance and economic-world destorying actions of corporations, corporate officers and CEOs, libertarians are never calling for the destruction of that construct, right? But somehow some overly protective union negotiation is call for completely eliminating the only group that’s ever consistently pushed for the rights of labor.
Yeah, that’s some honest non-biased objectivity right there.
burnspbesq
@Elizabelle:
Lincoln was a Marxist.
Morbo
@Alex S.: Why “/snark”? If these fuckers were serious about the free market principles they’d be looking for someone who can do Lane’s job for less pay. What’s he going to do, appeal to his union?
RSA
@Comrade Jake: Ah, McMegan. Further down there’s this, with my edits:
A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum)
Chin up Charles! Stella got her groove back, but I don’t think Angela Bassett is going to play you in the movie version of the train wreck that is your logic.
Sue
Does Mr. Lane spend any time reading the bulk of the comments on any Journal Sentinel article? And would this be the Journal Sentinel whose editorial page has consistently defended the entire bill, including the union-busting parts?
JS commenters are the usual sludge mix of trolls, spewing hate and nonsense while also calling a paper that’s just fine with union busting a liberal rag.
Murphoney
From her POV a I guess I can understand this, a little. I mean — since teachers never taught her a thing, what could they know?
Pooh
Via EDK’s twitter, good catch on the union bit being a bit of a sideshow to the real game here:
Napoleon
Amazingly every time Lane takes a stand on issues involving labor it is not just a pro-employer position but a radical minimalists anti-labor position that will destroy working peoples income and ability to raise that income in the future.
Zifnab
There is a grain of truth in this stupidity. Why isn’t the union stronger? Why didn’t they push back – hard – against budget cuts that were manufactured by a horribly corrupt Governor and his crony Congress?
The solution – let’s dissolve our biggest leverage point in protest over our lack of leverage – is forty flavors of stupid. But the core complaint is valid.
Unions have rallied and stand at the peak of their strength right now. Why are they willing to just settle on survival? They should be pressing back hard and demanding concessions of their own – like a repeal of the budget busting tax cuts and credits the Governor rammed through that created the mess.
“I surrender, conditionally” is hardly a compromise.
Rpx
“If they had the interests of their membership at heart, they would give in on bargaining rights, which can always be restored under a friendlier government later — but keep maximum cash in their members’ pockets here and now.”
Surely he’s not dumb enough to believe this. In a system which has an executive veto, it means that all union members will need to do is wait until they control both house of the legislature and the governor’s office at the same time. That might be years or a generation away.
Did this clown just decide that he wants a spot as a commentator on Fox news?
D. Mason
This should be held up as an example of arguing in bad faith until a better example comes along. So about a week.
Pooh
All that’s missing is an Obi-Wan Kenobi reference, really.
jwb
@Pooh: I think this was more an added benefit than the real game. If this was the real game, they would have compromised on collective bargaining in order to pass it. No, I think the assholes are just going for everything because they can.
jwb
@Zifnab: Once again, showing your real stripes. Now I’m convinced that you’re a tool and you know it.
J. Michael Neal
I have a question for McMegan, and all of the other self-righteous libertarians. As I understand it, Walker’s bill would immediately cut pay and benefits to state workers. That’s pay and benefits that were negotiated and a part of a signed contract.
Hey, you fuckers, don’t you continuously rail on about how contracts are sacred and need to be adhered to? Where are your fucking principles? Do you actually have any?
Pooh
JWB,
Just cause they’re being greedy and (for lack of a better term) evil doesn’t mean they aren’t also being stupid.
MCA
I kind of agree with Zifnab, although the rolling on the $$ issues does have the benefit of showing what a naked unionbusting effort this is at heart.
To some extent, the Democratic opposition in the Wisconsin legislature needs to get back in the game. I don’t begrudge their disappearance, or this would have already passed without the unions and affected workers being given a chance to be heard, and loudly, and bring national attention to what Walker’s really trying to do. Now, it’s time for the Democratic politicians to close the loop and start making the case that rolling back reckless tax cuts is the easiest fix to the so-called crisis largely of Walker’s making.
The unions can push on wage reduction and benefits pay-in on their own, but they can’t push the line that it shouldn’t be them paying for the State’s fiscal dilemma as effectively as a coordinated group of Democratic elected officials can. It’s just about time to start using this as a campaign rallying cry for next year, anyway. When and if the Republicans pass Walker’s bill (and an actual vote needs to happen at some point), the martyrdom begins and political benefit comes to Democrats. Even if the Republicans are rebuffed, the overreach ads have written themselves at this point. Unless Democrats come to be seen as being overly obstructionist and the “shirking their duties” message starts to gain traction. Right now the focus is still on the thousands of protesters, but I fear it will move after another day or two.
jwb
@Pooh: Let’s hope they are being stupid. My point is that if they are using the union bashing as a shiny object of distraction rather than the primary goal, they would have happily compromised that away in order to pass the rest. My sense is that they believed they could get it all, and that they could get it all by simply muscling it through. I encourage everyone to keep digging, however, because I bet we will find much more of this sort of thing.
SteveinSC
@jwb:
Second that. Add his/her name to the Exquisite Troll list.
jwb
@SteveinSC: Odd the way the firebaggers are out today taking up the attack line on unions straight out of the right wing talking points. When it comes to politics, I don’t believe in coincidences.
Zifnab
@jwb:
Wait, am I toolish for being frustrated at the union’s ability do more than roll over in the face of a GOP manufactured budget crisis?
Or am I toolish for seconding guessing the limitless wisdom of an organization whose membership gave 40% of its vote to a Governor now intent on dissolving it?
Can you enlighten? Or would you just like to smack me in the face with a live trout and scurry off.
SteveinSC
I have heard on a variety of places lately, that the unions have too much power and need to be stopped. Jesus Fucking Christ, only about 11 percent of the workforce is unionized. Back in the 50’s-60’s I think it may have been 40 percent or more. What is it that is fueling this hateful feeling towards what’s left of American unions? They are the last organized mass opposition to the plutocracy. After they are gone what or who can mount a large scale effort for working people? What is wrong with the American people? The Huns are at the gates, wake the fuck up.
Zifnab
@MCA:
This.
I wish Obama had stapled “Bush Tax Cut Repeal” to the budget bill that was so quickly bashed by the wingers in the House. “Hey, look. A quarter trillion dollars in deficit reductions. Where’s your fiscal responsibility now?”
As it stands, holding tax credits and cuts against budget cuts seems the ideal method for compromise.
gbear
@Zifnab: Umm, perhaps they did it to reveal that Gov. Walker’s ONLY intention was to bust the union? Perhaps they did it in an attempt to save the life of the union? The wage issues are peanuts compared to the harm that union busting would cause. This is not a time to be holding back your best cards. The unions have a gun to their heads right now.
Allan
@J. Michael Neal: I think they would argue that those contracts were signed under duress because UNION THUGS shut up.
gbear
@Zifnab:
The crisis for the union (and people getting medical assistance) is not a manufactured crisis. It is real. Walker really does have a gun to their head.
Anya
Lane needs to listen to his former colleagues Chait and Cohn :Do Wisconsin’s Workers Make Too Much?
jwb
@gbear: This. But Zinfab seems to understand neither how this game is played nor the how important the stakes are. Fortunately, the union workers in Wisconsin—especially the fire and police unions that backed Walker—do seem to understand. I bet it never occurred to Walker that his little stratagem of trying to buy off the fire and police unions might not work.
burnspbesq
@jwb:
I don’t always agree with Zifnab, but at least he/she normally shows evidence of thinking before writing.
You, on the other hand …
jwb
@burnspbesq: Yes, you’d certainly know about writing before thinking.
Turgid Jacobian
@Elizabelle: “Labor is prior to and independent of capital.” Also Lincoln.
LosGatosCA
It was a great country while it lasted. Maybe America can make a comeback, but at the rate it’s losing it’s collective IQ points that hardly seems possible.
Child laborers, barefoot, pregnant, indebted to the company store, fire sales of public assets to crony capitalists, while celebrating the Confederacy.
It’s practically the Rapture.
Throw in a few trillion for unfunded wars, bank bailouts and its great to be a Republican.
Dr. Morpheus
@SteveinSC:
Actually the highest percent was 31.4 and that was 1947 according to this page.
But we’ve had an unrelenting propaganda campaign against unions since their inception with Reagan marking the resurgence of the Federal Government actively suppressing unions.
Tony J
@burnspbesq:
Obligatory Harry Turtledove mention. In of his alt-history series he has a Lincoln who lost the civil-war eventually splitting the Republican Party and leading a big chunk of it into a new Party that uses the S-Word that puts you in moderation. Much of his dialogue for Lincoln was lifted directly from historical documents, which pleasantly surprised me at the time, even as it caused apolexy amongst the part of his readership who, shall we say “identify politically with the ‘Party of Lincoln’”.
Granted, these were usually the same people who objected to his depiction of a backwards, racially-segregated South where a fascist regime could come to power wrapped in the Stars and Bars and chanting ‘Freedom!’, while blaming all of the country’s problems on blacks and ‘pointy headed elites’.
Cut very close to the quick, he did. And they didn’t like it one bit.
Matt
LOL – the WI Rethugs are now threatening to move the union-busting clause to a non-budgetary bill which doesn’t require a quorum and could be passed without the Dems present.
Sorta puts the lie to the whole “OMG WE HAFTA DO THIS FOR TEH BUDGHETZ!” thing, doesn’t it?
The Raven
@Zifnab:
Solidarity. Asking for more when everyone around them has less is not the way to go. Pragmatically, it would cost them popular support as well.
Groucho48
You know, I’ve seen some mighty fine concern trolling in my time, but, this has to be a contender for the Concern Troll Hall of Fame.
Calouste
@J. Michael Neal:
Libertarians have one single principle, IGMFY, and obviously breaking someone else’s contract doesn’t violate that principle.
Contracts are only sacred to libertarians when someone else breaks a contract with them.
srv
@Elizabelle:
Fake quote. No source he ever said that.
Corner Stone
@jwb: I’m not seeing it?
jcricket
@Calouste:
Precisely – And to whom, do they run to when the contract is broken? The market? Ayn Rand? Nope. The state (i.e. the law).
Libertarianism is bankrupt from its very core. The free market only exists because of the regulations and laws that make enforcement of its contracts possible.
I’m all for small-l libertarianism, but I think it’s clear that the most pragmatic way to get there is for the government to be involved in an unfortunately wide variety of situations to prevent the concentrated power of the rich and corporations from suppressing the liberty of the masses.
Libertarians display either a naive or intentional disregard for history and human behavior on their way to arguing the “least goverment” = magical nirvana for us all.
jcricket
@J. Michael Neal:
Also, “No”. SASQ.
Much like every single 10,000 word post from Sully, Libertarian “thinking” as demonstrated by the blogs and output from various think-tanks serves as intellectual flim-flam disguised as intelligence discourse designed solely to provide cover for justifying extraordinary tax cuts and de-regulation to benefit the already rich and powerful.
chopper
if gabrielle giffords could speak right now, i’m sure she’d lift her head and say ‘fuckin overpaid deadbeat teachers should get their asses back to work.’
jcricket
@chopper: Maybe she can tap it out on an iPad. I’m sure parroting Republican talking points is high on her rehab agenda, esp. considering union busting is so near and dear to her heart.
Origuy
@srv: I couldn’t find any source for that, either. But this is a real one, from his first State of the Union address:
Emphasis mine.
mwing
@Zifnab- I work for a different state’s government, and am a member of a union that generally negotiates 3 year contracts. Our state’s financial picture, while much better than most, has indeed declined in the last 3 years, and our union guys responded to a request for concessions on the current contract by agreeing to some modest rollbacks. Within my particular workplace, we also did a voluntary unpaid-furlough program which got wide participation. The membership grumbled but went along. What we got- no big layoffs (yet), the ability to publicly say that the Unions were interested in shared sacrifice, and, well, here at least no one is demonizing public employees. So, there are absolutely occasions where the best long-term interest of the membership is served by concessions.