Maybe Deion Sanders (When I think of tough guys in the NFL, one of the first people who comes to mind is Deion Sanders. When people say who is the toughest guy in the NFL, the names Tatum, Ronnie Lott, Lambert, and Deion Sanders come to mind…), who missed the better part two seasons with a sore toe, should stfu and apologize to Cutler:
Jay Cutler did have a knee injury, the team announced on Monday, despite what critics have said.
Whether he was really hurt and whether he should have played anyway was hotly debated after the Bears quarterback left in the third quarter of a 21-14 loss to the Green Bay Packers in the NFC Championship Game on Sunday.
Bears coach Lovie Smith said Monday afternoon that Cutler suffered a sprain of the medial collateral liagament in his left knee. The diagnosis was arrived at after Cutler underwent an MRI.
A sprain in the MCL is the same as a tear, and a sprained MCL would make it impossible to plant and throw. Additionally, a torn MCL doesn’t immediately require crutches or hobbling around in agony like you were just shot. It does, however, render you immediately unable to play. Especially when it is in the foot you use to plant and throw.
And as to the “he was sitting wearing earbuds” bullshit, he wasn’t rocking out to emo music, he was listening to the coaches on the intercom.
I’ve never seen anyone be treated as shabbily for no reason whatsoever. The guy was hurt. And I don’t like Cutler and think he is kind of a jerk. But jeebus.
And to give Deion the consideration his loudmouthed ass would never give to anyone else, turf toe is excruciating and can take forever to heal.
Paris
Did no one notice that the Bears were sucking with Cutler? The best thing that happened was for them to put in their third string.
geg6
Yes, I’ve been astounded by the venom in the other thread, screaming about his faking injury, or listening to music on his iPod (totally ridiculous, everyone knows QBs have the buds to hear what the coaches are saying), and interpreting his facial expressions and how many times they saw him talk to the other QBs. Holy crap. The guy takes the team to the conference championship, fer chissakes. A guy with Type I diabetes, no less. He’s a tough mofo for that alone.
Yes, he isn’t a top tier starting QB and he never was. Nor will he ever will be. But jeebus, folks, cut him a break already. He wasn’t the sole reason the Bears lost that one. I watched the whole game. Believe me, it was a group effort.
Barb (formerly Gex)
The argument of whether baseball or football is the most popular sport in America is silly. Clearly the great American sport is to hold others to standards you would never ever hold yourself to.
Dave
If Cutler wasn’t an ass, this wouldn’t be a big deal. But you are right about Sanders needing to STFU. He was a freaking fragile princess out there.
Still…when you have examples like Rivers playing on a torn ACL in the 2007 AFC Championship game and Jack Youngblood playing on a broken leg during the ’79 playoffs, people are going to talk. It’s the nature of the sport.
New Yorker
How soon before Brett Favre reaches out to the Bears about next season? You know Favre would never let a sprained knee prevent him from throwing 5 interceptions in a playoff game.
Steve
This reminds me of Jim Bunning, world-class idiot, going off on Stephen Strasburg for missing a start due to soreness. “Five hundred twenty starts, I never refused the ball.” Now that Strasburg is missing an entire season thanks to Tommy John surgery, don’t look for Bunning to apologize.
I thought it was really weird how so many people – not just clueless fans, but actual NFL players – were going off on Cutler before they had any idea one way or the other if it was a serious injury. I know Cutler isn’t the most popular guy, but geez.
AnotherBruce
How has Cutler failed you today?
elmo
Meh. I’m giggling about the Cutler thing either way, because he really is a punk and it’s fun to watch him suffer.
Elie
@geg6:
I hope you saw my congrats on your engagement.
That said, speaking only for myself, the commnent that I have about Jay is not about feigning injury or his blame for the loss, which I totally agree was a complete team loss. My point, is that this whole issue arose because of the difficulty he has in relating to people and his fans, and that therefore dictated a certain suspicion about him.
Sitting on the sidelines with ear bud in place of benching won’t win you many fans in Chicago — or anywhere else for that matter
BTD
Deion’s next tackle would be his first.
D
I can’t stand Cutler so I don’t really care, that being said…..wait, why am I posting then?!? Let me STFU!
New Yorker
@Steve:
Jim Bunning is a senile old coot. I was more annoyed by Rob Dibble, world class asshole who had his career derailed by, um, arm injuries, calling Strasburg a pussy. At least Dibs got canned for it.
Tokyokie
The trainers can usually determine a knee injury on the sidelines by manipulating the kneecap. They can’t determine the injury with complete accuracy and they generally can’t determine the severity (unless a ligament is completely severed), but they can usually get a pretty good idea. When I saw them perform the tests on Cutler and then he didn’t return, I figured he’d torn an MCL. (With a torn ACL, he probably wouldn’t have been standing much.) At first I thought it was odd that it wasn’t iced down, but duh, it was about 8 degrees during the game, so it wasn’t necessary.
Elie
I tell you, it would be great to have the right margins and other formatting things fixed on this website. I am not holding my breath anymmore, however…
Loneoak
Why does anyone care about the Bears at the moment? The Packers, America’s Team, are going to the Super Bowl!
EDIT: FYWP. The new design has a very hard time getting multiple paragraphs into a blockquote.
Tim
@Elie:
THIS attitude is what seems weird and amusing to me about so many sports obsessives: at bottom, they are very concerned about their delicate feelings and sensibilities. It can become very soap opera-ish. “Oh, he doesn’t connect on a spiritual level with his fans!” “Oh, he has an ego!”
Puh-lease.
I follow a number of sports, including college FB and BB, and pro FB. I try not to let it become the center of my life.
And I live in fucking Boston, where it is not unusual for people to schedule weddings and funerals around Red Sox games. Weird.
licensed to kill time
@Loneoak:
Elie
@Paris:
Yes.
Even before the injury, Jay was having a tough time. Having watched the Bears all season, he has these games where he just can’t figure out squat and his timing is all off. Bad time to have one of those games, but it happens.
There is just something about his consistency and the way he relates to the fans and media that he has to learn to overcome. Some blame his mechanics. Dunno. Just something about Jay is never dialed in completely..
Defense also looked like they were somewhere else in the first half.
Have to think about coaching and getting this team prepared. Green Bay was clearly the better team, but the Bears just did not appear ready to play in the first half. Everyone was sitting around waiting for someone else to light the spark, I guess.
Froley
My favorite Twitter tough guy was Maurice Jones-Drew who said “All I’m saying is that he can finish the game on a hurt knee… I played the whole season on one…”
Yeah, Maurice, except for the last two games of the season when you sat out because of a knee injury (and when the Jags were still in the playoff hunt). Today’s NFL is unkind to players trying to play through injuries. If you can’t move as well as you normally do and don’t come off the field, you’re likely going to hurt your own team.
stuckinred
\
Really. . .
New Yorker
Basketball, I’ll grant you. The NBA is a joke. But baseball? Just using the arbitrary year of 1980 (the year I was born), there have been 19 different World Series champions since then, and 15 different Superbowl champions (and with the Jets gone, it will stay at 15). Since 2000 (or Superbowl XXXV) we’ve had 9 different World Series winners, and 7 different Superbowl winners.
Both sports have teams with limited incomes, some of which do well (Packers, Tampa Bay Rays) and some of which are jokes (Buffalo Bills, Pittsburgh Pirates). And both sports have teams with big wallets who are jokes (yes, yes, my Mets are high on that list).
Elie
@Tim:
Hey, how are you?
Listen, its not the center of my life either.
We are commenting on a narrow topic – one which I do enjoy and make no apologies about
Not sure that you need to make fun of me for that, but have a nice day!
cleek
@Tim:
luckily, that attitude never manifests around any of the other things people can obsess over!
Legalize
None of this matters. The “story” is how the NFL Village “feels” about Jay Cutler’s supposed sullenness and sideline demeanor. And that’s all there is to it.
joe from Lowell
The guy came out for the second half, and couldn’t perform. It was obvious he was hurt.
This whole story was foolish.
HumboldtBlue
So fuck-all to player safety, right? Right? I mean, it’s football, who fucking cares if you’re leg is broken, your brain is damaged, if you can still stand upright you owe it to the drunks in the stands, the meatheads on TV and the fat-ass scribes huddling in the press box to press on until you are either dead or unable to walk.
Then and only then will you be given football’s highest honor — a dumbass who is injured but keeps playing guaranteeing that by the time he’s 45 he’ll need both knees and hips replaced, but it was for all the glory of that wintry day on Soldier field when the game was on the line and he gritted it out to the bitter end and only once the clock had reached triple zeroes did he realize that the team had fallen short of a trip to the Super Bowl. He couldn’t walk and he faced years of treatment and therapy, but boy, they almost WON!
Fuck all of these people.
Michael D.
@geg6:
I watched the entire thing as well and I could not agree more.
Bulworth
I watched the game and didn’t think that Cutler being taken out was all that remarkable. I didn’t notice him not walking on crutches or anything. I didn’t realize there was a controversy until I tuned into Mike & Mike this morning. I actually did see Cutler positively respond when the Bears got the touchdown, and I do remember him sitting next to Heney and it looked like they were going over the plays and photos. If I was a Bears fan I might feel differently. But this all seems pretty unfair.
Loneoak
@licensed to kill time:
Not to gripe, but one should not need to learn pidgin html to read or comment on a site. Well, that is to gripe. Tiniest violin and whatnot.
AnotherBruce
History’s biggest monster, Jay Cutler or Jimmy Carter?
fanshawe
Sorry, but if Cutler really cared about his team he would have rubbed some dirt on it and decreased his team’s chances of winning by performing poorly due to injury. That’s just common sense.
Elie
@joe from Lowell:
It was a little more complex issue than that, but I am tired of it so give up. Most folks acknowledge that he was injured. Most of the conversation on BJ involved why he is so disliked and received this suspicious treatment. Some of us dealth with that underlying issue, not whether he was injured, which of course is serious and he should not play.
You don’t need the details again, but just know that folks were NOT saying that he needed to be playing or that the loss was his fault.
Thanks to all for reading with comprehension
HumboldtBlue
Plus, can’t Caleb “I aint playing today, am I coach, am I?” Hanie, who comes in in the 3rd quarter of the NFC title game as nearly pulls off a Montana, get some love? The guy’s practices consist of throwing balls to water boys and yet he steps in against a damn good defense and leads his team to 14 points. I say a new meme be named — when someone unexpected steps up and does an unexpectedly fine job they have pulled off a “Hanie.”
Ash Can
Actually, you pretty much put your finger in the reason in your very next sentence:
Full disclosure: I think he’s a jerk too. Having said that, though, no one, but no one, gets as far in pro sports as a Jay Cutler does by taking himself out of do-or-die verge-of-championship situations without having a damned good reason for it, regardless of how big an asswipe he is on a personal basis. That’s why none of the Cutler-is-a-p*ssy ranting makes any sense to me. This sort of thing just doesn’t happen at that level of pro sports.
Also too, geg6 is absolutely right — the collapse in yesterday’s game (and plenty of others this season) was most definitely a group effort. It’s not all on Cutler by any stretch.
Elie
@HumboldtBlue:
Hear Hear!!!
Eric S.
@HumboldtBlue: I believe your details are off, but yes, Haine did well.
licensed to kill time
@Loneoak:
I hear you. And yet our devotion to this site compels us to do so.
joe from Lowell
@Elie: I wasn’t talking about the BJ commentariat, actually. I was talking about Sanders and the people I’d heard in the real sports media.
scav
@HumboldtBlue: uh oh, sanity not required in these circumstances. Because I’m sure everybody in the past played on TWO broken knees, IN the SNOW, UPHILL both ways, and the football hadn’t been entirely disconnected from the living greased PIG which made it especially hard to hold. The search for a overly-simple narrative we can scream about has clearly spread to the sports page. But hell, I’m only somebody in Chicago who couldn’t care less and rather enjoyed the imagery of Gollum clinging to a football as it was kicked downfield in the snow. blah blah blah.
J.W. Hamner
As someone who has a viscerally bad reaction to the guy I can sort of see where the insanity comes from… but I can’t remember ever hearing so many current and former players question another guy’s heart publicly. He must really be disliked.
joe from Lowell
@HumboldtBlue:
How’s this: Mrs. joe from Lowell says to me during the game “I wonder if this guy is going to be the next Tom Brady?”
Howzzat for some love?
cathyx
This seems to be the theme for today. Accuse someone of a heinous act before knowing all the facts, then assume their guilty of it because you don’t like that person. How many is that today? 3? 4?
flounder
I broke my leg once skateboarding and never noticed it. I found out because I later got x-rays on my ankle and the doc asked me about the healed fracture.
5 years later, I sprained my ACL backcountry snowboarding and it hurt so bad that I had to sit on my board and scoot down the mountain very slowly (and then I couldn’t bend my knee for a month.
Am I tough for “playing through” a broken leg, or am I a total wuss for not even being able to snowboard down some soft now with a sprained ACL?
FlipYrWhig
If you ask me, Jayne Cutsher shouldn’t have brought those petitions to the sideline. S/he was going to get all kinds of criticism, because s/he is known for being kind of a prima donna.
shoestring potato
not sure how much you follow chicago media (i know, i know this has become a national story) but we do this to ALL our quarterbacks…run the guy out of town no matter how good he is.
I’m not a huge Grossman fan but I liked him, and he got us to the dance and was run out of town in less than a year
same old story…
Elie
@Ash Can:
For those of us who are concerned with the Bears next year, it matters to us that he has a bad rep and doesnt know how to keep the pressure off of his team and himself better than he does.
Next year, it would be great if he developed a few PR skills. This might save him and his team from this sort of distraction.
You are absolutely correct that the Bears lost that game as a team. No one ever said that Jay was the blame for the loss, only that his attitude on the sidelines after he was sidelined was, shall we say, odd. Ear buds don’t make the best statement to the world, IMHO.
Still, as I fully acknowledge, there are murderers, dog killers and rapists in the NFL who do not get such treatment. They ususally, and paradoxically, know how to play to the media and the fans. This is not rocket science. Jay should be able to do this and it will spare him future things like this. He should consider this a note to the parents for the kindergartner – “Needs Improvement on Social Skills”
Joy
I just came off a MCL sprain and it hurt like hell!
Elie
@shoestring potato:
Yeah. I felt really bad about that too… I thought he got a raw deal. Rex was also a very nice person and still got his head handed to him. I also believe that the Bears chew up quarterbacks and ruin their careers, so Jay had better really take care of himself.. they will not have his back. Therefore even more important that he take care of this PR/social issue he has. VERY easy, comparatively to do
stannate
If I were any NFL player, past or present, I would stay quiet about Cutler’s injury or perceived lack of toughness. Any sort of bragging about how they would have played in that situation could very well lead to a discussion in March that sounds like this:
NFL Player: “Oh, that Cutler is a pussy. See, I got my ___________ injured and I played through it, so why can’t he?”
NFL Owners: “So what you’re saying is that you’ll have no problems with an 18-game schedule, correct?”
NFL Player: “Um…”
scav
And can I say, I can’t wait for the upcoming seasons of PR specialists playing hackeysack or maybe hopscotch on ESPN?
ETA: identification of just what sent the above into moderation is left to the reader or anybody else that cares.
asiangrrlMN
@geg6: Congrats. I did not read about your engagement. Did it happen at Heinz Field?
This is my take. These guys play their entire careers to get to this point. If he could play, he would have. The other stuff (as to him already being despised), I have no comment, but for all those, “inject some cortisone and get back out there” people (including ex-sports stars), just stop it already. We (including me because I watch the damn sport) already glorify grown men pretty much destroying their bodies for our enjoyment. They already do so much more than most of us would even dream of doing (physically, I mean). Let’s not get ridiculous about it.
@Barb (formerly Gex): Winz.
Ash Can
@shoestring potato: I don’t think it was so much Grossman as the Bears’ defense that got that team to the dance. The D that year was really channeling the D of the 85-86 team, and it hid a multitude of offensive sins, many of them Grossman’s.
@Elie: It would be great if he were to change his ways, even a little, but he’s had ample opportunity and encouragement to do so before this, to no avail. I’m not holding my breath.
de stijl
@shoestring potato:
Haven’t the Bears gone through more starting QBs than any other franchise in the last 20 years?
de stijl
@scav:
Starts with “spec” and contains the name of a boner pill.
Edit – phonetically the word that got you in trouble is speshalist.
Punchy
I’m just glad St. Jay is alive! Now he can continue to visit the hospitals and stick insulin in his body.
I cannot wait to concern troll the hell out of this blog when the Steelers are getting beat in two weeks.
Violet
@geg6:
Venom? In a sports thread? Who’d a thunk it?
Elie
@de stijl:
Yep, that’s the Bears. We don’t really know what to do with quarterbacks. Now DEE-fense… we KNOW about THAT but we get all nervous and squishy when we have to develop a quarterback. We usually break them after banging them on a rock a few times.
gwangung
Particularly since, as a diabetic, cortisone would apparently do very bad things to him. Hm, wonder how other chemicals would screw him up….
(Meaning that all of us are talking in massive ignorance about medical conditions…)
Culture of Truth
I keep hearing how Cutler is a jerk (he’s aloof or didn’t John Elway his propers, or something) but that doesn’t justifying smearing an obviously injured person, imo.
gwangung
@gwangung: Hm…this reminds me of Seattle’s reaction to Erik Bedard (Mariners pitcher). He got slagged constantly for being a wuss and not pitching through pain.
Well, apparently he pitched through pain in 2008, and made a bad problem worse by aggravating a labrum tear to a point where he hasn’t pitched in years.
I question the whole “playing through pain.” mantra in sports. It may be macho, but it’s FRAKIN’ DUMB.
BobS
@HumboldtBlue: It’s the nature of the game they play and the one we (their enablers) watch. Toughness is celebrated in the NFL-one of the legendary stories of pro football history is Johnny Unitas quarterbacking the Colts to the 1958 championship with multiple broken ribs and a pneumothorax. Stuff like that sets the bar pretty high.
Unfortunately, it’s also the reason the average pro football player has a significantly shorter life expectancy than the average American man.
I’m willing to give Cutler the benefit of the doubt, primarily because he’s shown he can take a punch. He played for the shittiest team in the SEC, a conference with the best defenses top-to-bottom in college football gunning for him week after week. He’s playing with Type I diabetes. He was sacked more times (including 9 times in a half against the Giants, approximately the same number of tackles Sanders made in his career) this year than any other quarterback in football, played through a concussion, and missed just one game. If he took himself out, it was probably because he knew he couldn’t make the throws he needed to for the Bears to win (although he probably could have thrown from his knees with more accuracy than Collins- why the fuck wasn’t Hanie the Bears #2 quarterback?), not because he isn’t tough.
Mnemosyne
For anyone who hasn’t seen it, Malcolm Gladwell did a piece for the New Yorker a couple of years ago comparing football with dogfighting. I’m not sure how well the comparison works (at least for animal lovers), but there’s very compelling evidence that most pro football players will retire with massive brain damage from repeated concussions.
And, yes, a lot of it is due to the “play hurt” mantra.
MattR
@Dave:
It seems worthwhile to point out that Rivers got hurt in the 2007 Divisional playoff game. He had to come out of the game and Billy Volek led them to victory.
AnotherBruce
@BobS: Your points are all good, but the fact is, he didn’t take himself out. Lovie Smith took him out of the lineup. He tried 2 series after he injured his knee.
flip
Cutler’s real crime is a lack of any social grace and charm. He was under attack prior to this game due to his “arrogance.” Most of those comments came from Denver. But the media generally doesn’t like Cutler because he doesn’t like them. If the defense had stopped Rodgers before he made two touchdowns in the first half, the Bears might have won the game with a third string quarterback.
Stillwater
There is some truth to this, but it diminishes when you move away from outsider-looking-in to a place of familiarity. Cutler was drafted by Denver, so I spent three years getting familiar with Cutleritis. Prolly the best thing to say is that people’s negative opinions of him do have some justification, but YMMV.
I will retract my own Cutler-bashing based on the Earbud Incident (I honestly had never seen those before, only headsets). And since I never questioned his toughness or the extent of his injury, that still leaves a pretty negative assessment of Cutler as a football team player sitting on the table, even if some people find that unfair.
Dave
@MattR: True. I think the problem isn’t that Cutler is soft. It’s that he has engendered such ill-will towards him throughout the league so that no one gives him an ounce of slack. If it were Manning, or Brady or (God help me) Big Ben, people would give them the benefit of the doubt because they have been proven winners and have shown a hunger to play no matter what.
Cutler made a bad first impression with his “I have a better arm than Elway” line and has always held himself apart. The attitude of someone who is a proven winner without actually winning anything. That rubs people the wrong way. And when an opportunity presents itself to take him down…it’s telling how many NFL players took a shot at him.
Hawes
The problem is that it’s Cutler. If it were Manning or Brady or Rodgers or Brees, you would assume that he was scheduled for surgery the next day. Cutler has not exactly been a picture of toughness. Kind of like Deion, now that you think about it.
I’ve sprained my MCL a few times. I kept playing on it. In rugby. For no pay.
Rodgers got crushed pretty good a few times and I think it effected his game. But there was no way Matt Flynn was going to get in that game as long as Rodgers was upright and moving.
And while Favre sucked and I’m glad he’s finally gone (PLEASE!) he was crazy tough. Playing on a broken foot and ankle at age 39 or 40?
To me, the punchline is that Calebhaney outplayed him.
BobS
@AnotherBruce: Yeah, I’ve heard it was the team doctor and/or Lovie Smith who pulled him, and if that’s the case it’s a point in Cutler’s defense. I think it’s more likely that’s spin to shield Cutler from criticism – if Cutler had been pulled despite him wanting to play, we would have seen more acrimony between him and Smith. In my opinion, it was probably a collective decision of the team doctor/Smith/Cutler.
Patrick
There are plenty of reasons not to like Jay Cutler. He is uniquely unlikeable. There are players in the NFL who are over-the-top assholes. There are players in the NFL who would likely be incarcerated in mental institutions if not for their professional football credentials. There’s at least one player in the NFL who has killed dogs. Jay Cutler doesn’t fit into any of these categories; he’s not a raging asshole. He’s not loony. He doesn’t curb stomp dogs.
He is still a generally unlikeable figure. For most folks, that’s reason enough to assume the worst about him. That he thinks very highly of himself and that he seems to have a massive sense of entitlement only help to round out his unlikeable-ness.
Does that have anything to do with his play on the field? No. It does shape opinions about his play on the field, though.
MattR
@Hawes:
Sorry, but this is complete bullshit. The man is the exact picture of toughness. He gets hit more than pretty much every other QB and does not say a word or complain in the least bit. In fact, a large amount of the criticism I have read/heard about Cutler’s actions yesterday are essentially complaining that he is too tough/stoic and did not sufficiently show that he was in pain and unable to continue.
Playing rugby or playing almost any other position in the NFL is vastly different from playing QB. Maybe a CB is the only comparison for how much one individual playing at less than 100% can doom an entire team. If Cutler cannot plant and throw accurately, the team cannot win. (Same with a CB unable to cut or stay with a WR). But a lineman who is moving at 3/4 speed can still be effective. Same with a RB/WR who can only cut in one direction.
grandpajohn
@gwangung: Yeah, the old playing through pain card, usually played by assholes who will refuse to get out of their ez boys if they have any kind of pain , has ended many a career early, example Dizzy Dean way back in the 30’s
As to sports commentators and networks (ESPN) shit thats like like listening to wingnut loony programming. Most of the assholes commentators on there are a bunch of losers whom no one has ever heard of.
Malron
Ahem.
Sorry, but if you’re gonna play in the Black-and-Blue division for a team nicknamed “The Monsters of the Midway” there’s no way you’re gonna get a pass for sitting out the second half of the biggest game of your life – especially after having the division dominated for the past 20 years by a QB who never missed a game in 19 years. The Chicago Bears put their season in Cutler’s hands and he pussied out and some guy from Green Acres nearly ended up being the hero. They have a right to be pissed at him.
On the other hand: hats off to the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson deserves a lot of credit: not for jettisoning Favre and elevating Rodgers, but for assembling the one thing Green Bay hasn’t had since their last trip to the Super Bowl: a dominant defense.
Joel
Jack Tatum is disgraceful scum. Aside from that, I wholeheartedly endorse this post.
grandpajohn
@Dave: Of course the fact that Big Ben is a border line rapist whose ass should have been in jail doesn’t matter to the diehards. Now if he were to rape one of their daughters then they might have a slightly different opinion
Stillwater
@BobS: From a purely football perspective, that’s what’s lost in all the Cutler bashing – that he deserved to get the hook. He led 8 drives with only punts and ints to show for it. Lovie prolly wanted to yank him, but really couldn’t if Cutler was deemed ‘able to play’, which he was coming out of the locker room. Then the story changes, pulled due to injury. Just the architecture of the situation makes Cutler look bad, not that he needs any help in that regard.
Elie
Honestly. I really dont think people can read anymore. At least on this site, no one has said, and in fact we have taken pains to state that he WAS hurt and should not have had to play on it. The issue is his inability to convey trust and respect for the fans and media.. It boils down that they in turn, don’t have respect for HIM
Lefty Lefty
As a lifelong Bear fan and former HS football and basketball player, I can unequivocally state that Jay Cutler is a wuss. And it’s not just because he didn’t finish the game yesterday. Half the sacks against the Giants were his fault. He gives up the ball in the red zone like no other QB in football. And then he acts like a jerk when someone calls him on his poor decisions and throws.
The Bears made the terrible decision to give him a giant pile of money. But he continues after 2 seasons to not care about his role here. He and Rex Grossman will have jobs in the NFL because it’s a tough gig, but they will never excel at it because excelling means getting your head out of your ass.
MattR
@Stillwater: This might make sense if the backup QB was anybody other than Todd Collins.
@Elie:
Wow. If this is true, it is pretty pathetic. You don’t trust or respect Cutler because of what? Because of the way the media portrays him because he has no use for their stupid BS? Because he won’t act the way you expect a football player to act?
BobS
@Hawes: Your experience with MCL sprains is why you’re a legend on the internet. However, not all MCL tears are necessarily the same. There are several grades, depending on the severity of the injury, as well as somewhat frequent associated injuries, usually the ACL.
Amateur athletes and spectators commenting on the presumed softness of pros like Cutler (who picked himself up 52 times this year to stare back across the line of scrimmage at 11 big, strong, and fast guys trying to hurt him), particularly pro football and hockey players, are clueless to what happens on a field full of elite athletes.
Mark S.
Why is Jay Cutler supposedly so unlikeable? I haven’t followed his career like at all. Does he punch kids who ask for his autograph?
Barb (formerly Gex)
@grandpajohn: A guy I know completely minimized what the girl went through because she got a settlement. Someone with that kind of empathy may not feel differently if it was his daughter. Especially if he could get a cut.
MattR
@Mark S.: Generally speaking it is because he is a private person who does not like to be bothered in public (he is not rude, but he is not accomodating of photo/autograph requests either) and does not like to deal with the media. Of course, because he does not play nice with the media, they don’t play nice with him. So they highlight his body language after a bad play wihtout noting that it is identical to his body language after 90% of the other plays. Or they twist his words to create controversy. Not too different from how the political media can influence public perception of politicians that they don’t like.
@Malron:
And this would be exhibit A for how things he has said got twisted. Cutler did not brag about having a stronger arm than Elway. He was asked a question about whether he had a stronger arm and he said “yes”, which shows exactly the confidence that you want your rookie QB to have. Had he said “no”, the media would have ragged him for lacking that confidence and being too deferential.
Malron
@Mark S.:
He does things like brag about his arm being stronger than John Elway’s when he was in Denver, then comes to Chicago and acts surly with the media and teammates. I was a little hard on him in my prior post, but I think the biggest problem with Cutler is his inability to adapt to the black-and-blue, take no prisoners mentality that revolves around the Bears/Packers rivalry. In Chicago, its a cardinal sin to lose to Green Bay. No excuses are accepted. Its also another way for Chicago to get around admitting the better team won. “Yeah well, you guys beat us but if our starting QB had been out there it would have been a different story.” I seriously doubt that, since Dom Capers was in the zone last night and the Packers’ secondary was playing at the top of its game.
RareSanity
Here’s the thing…it’s all about context.
When compared to the majority of the world population, an NFL quarterback, is John fucking Wayne when it comes to toughness. To play in the NFL, at all, implies a certain level of toughness, not common in your average Joe or Jane.
That being said, there are two things that are hurting Cutler here. First, it is a common belief that he is a pain in the ass and kinda spoiled. Which, by the way, should have no bearing on whether or not he could have “toughed it out”. Secondly, the fact that he did not seem the least bit interested (at least from what the cameras showed), in offering the 3rd string quarterback, any insight into a team that he had already faced two previous times this year, is to me, a far greater sin than the whole hurt/not hurt discussion. One, because it adds to the narrative that he is a jerk. Two, because, whether or not you are actually playing, your team is. You are supposed to be doing anything you can to give your team, and your teammates, the best opportunity to win. In my opinion, based only on what on could see on TV, it did not appear that Cutler was doing that. It looked at though he was either pouting, or having a very public pity party.
I could be wrong about any of those things, but that is what I picked up from Cutler’s demeanor, on the sidelines.
Also, to those that say that players shouldn’t play hurt and look what happens to them later in life. I respond that each and every player, in the NFL, is well aware of the risks involved in playing in the NFL. As someone that played major college football, I can state unequivocally, that I can remember being aware of the risks as early as the 8th grade. You see or hear about something happening all the time. Being aware of the risks, a choice is made. At the high school level, the risks are accepted, in exchange for possible free attendance in a college, and possibly a chance to play professionally. At the college level, even higher risks are accepted in exchange for the possibility of being drafted and hundreds of thousands up to millions of dollars. At the NFL level, everything is on the table to make the team, make a bonus clause, or a new, more lucrative contract.
I still need surgery, from playing my entire senior year in high school, with a torn labrum. Did anyone force me to do it? Nope, because I didn’t tell anyone I was hurt. I knew that if I reported it, I could possibly need surgery, which would cut my season short, and possibly endanger my chances at a scholarship. I spent every night, after practice and games, in my bedroom in agony trying to keep ice on it constantly, so that the next day could even be remotely bearable.
So a lot of the “NFL village” venom, being spewed at Cutler, comes from that place. It is not external forces (fans, media, coaches), that cause a player, to play hurt. It is the recognition, of what NOT playing, could cost you (and just general competitive urge). Could be your starting position, could be your scholarship, could be a bonus in your contract, could be your next contract, could be a trip to the fucking Super Bowl!
I don’t expect for everybody to understand that mentality, hell, I don’t even know that it is rational. What I do know is that it exists, and the higher the level of football play, the more intense it is. Mainly because it is probably what has propelled you to that level, and also, at every level, the costs of not playing get bigger and bigger.
I honestly don’t know if Cutler’s injury was serious enough to where he couldn’t have just gotten a cortisone shot and kept playing. If it were me, and I have lived it before, I would have been asking for every shot the team doctor had in his bag, however many of those 800mg Ibuprofens, it would have taken to numb the pain and give me a chance to get back on the field. And if the coach told me, “Son, you just can’t go…”, I would have been destroyed and most likely, in tears. Then, I would have gathered myself together, and done anything I could to help my replacement.
That’s football folks. It may not make sense, it just is what it is.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@MattR: I had a friend who lived in the general vicinity of Kevin Garnett when he was in MN. She hated him because… gasp … when he was out for dinner with someone he wouldn’t just ignore his company and shower his attention on others in the restaurant. It’s almost like those white people think they own him or something.
Elie
@MattR:
HI Matt! How are you?
Hmmm. Not sure why expecting him to communicate a respect for the people who pay his salary or support his team would be important? Shoot, I guess I should be comfortable with his contempt and take that as his God given right?
Ok.
Not much to say to you on that. We clearly see things quite differently. I see respectful relations (and therefore the positivity that allows trust and support), as possibly desirable for him and us. But maybe not in your world
Have a nice day!
Svensker
@RareSanity:
He can’t get cortisone shots.
KDS
The Packers victory shows that the American people have once again rejected the Obama agenda. Also too it means that Rahm has been rejected as a mayoral candidate, unless of course he can provide his birth certificate…
MattR
@Elie:
So do I. But I have seen nothing from Cutler that shows a lack of respect for his fans (either in Denver or Chicago).
Elie
@Svensker:
He could get cortisone… they would just have to monitor his blood sugar adjust his insulin. Cortisone would raise his blood sugar temporarily. As usual, as a diabetic he is very careful of injury to peripheral tissue, nerves and of course, any infection.
gwangung
Weren’t about half those drives after he got injured? Not that it changes the decision; if he’s ineffective, he’s ineffective….
Elie
@MattR:
Well, I think if you listened to the call in shows, he has a bit of a perception problem then. Heck, PR is an easy fix. Why doesnt he go get some? Oh, he wants to just be “free”? He doesnt give a rip about those people, why do they ask him for autographs anyway?
C’mon now, Matt. This is an easy one for him to fix. Don’t make it into nuclear fission.
RareSanity
@Svensker:
Is that because of his diabetes? Does cortisone produce higher blood sugar levels? I wasn’t aware there was an issue.
I seriously think that the venom being spit at Cutler, about the injury, was way over the top. Like I said, I had a (small) problem, with how it appeared that he was conducting himself after the injury.
Of course, I only care so much because, 1) I don’t know Jay Cutler and nothing he does affects me, and 2) he’s a big boy, he can stand up for himself.
MattR
@Elie: He absolutely has a perception problem and he could care less about fixing it. If you don’t like him because he does not think he has an obligation to stop on the street and give you his time, that is not a problem with him. Fans have an overinflated belief in what athletes “owe” them. But the reality is that Cutler is a good person who does not get into trouble, who gives his time to charitable causes behind the scenes, who works hard to improve his craft and who is focused on winning games. That should be enough for the fans of any team/player.
Elie
@MattR:
Alternately, he can tell all of us to take a flying leap and keep doing what he is doing…
But then he should not complain, (nor his champions) when he gets what he gets. Can’t have it both ways: If you want the adulation and hoozahs, there is a dance you gotta do. If its not important to you, take what you get and shut up.
If you are advocating his position, and want him to be “Free” of any social encumberances around expected social behavior, then you shouldnt complain that he will pay a price for that. Just say, “That’s just Jay and he is cool with that”.
Stillwater
@MattR: This might make sense if the backup QB was anybody other than Todd Collins.
lulz. Yes, there is that.
MattR
@Elie:
What I can do is point and laugh at the idiots who are expecting him to do a dance and are upset when he won’t perform for them. (EDIT: That position is no more or less respectful than expecting Cutler to perform that dance)
Elie
@MattR:
But you are saying that WE should therefore adapt to HIS view and reward his indifference with our respect and good vibes.
Nope.
I don’t expect anyone in public life to be 100% available or accountable to my whims for autographs or whatever. I DO expect a certain niceness and acknowledgement that I have some role in his success. The guy makes a lot of money from fans (who are the ultimate payers of all their salaries). Do you thumb your nose at people who pay your way and helped make you a success. If so, this should be comfortable for you. Me, I don’t think so.
Again, difference is expectations. I don’t see the whole fan, game thing as just the conceit of the individual. To me it only really works as a shared community and experience, so quid pro quo and rubbing elbows is part of it.
Everyone can think of it how they want though. And like they say, everyone can have their own opinion but not their own facts. If he wants to keep getting what he is getting, the fact is he should keep doing what he is doing
GuavaEmpanadas
JC,
How exactly does your fellating obscenely compensated knuckle-draggers square with your vitriol for the Wall Street crowd?
Truth is athletes have “gone Galt” far more often than any loathsome bankers.
Just wonderin’.
grandpajohn
@MattR: In an era where the egotistical mediocre intellectually challenged media has decided that they are more important than the people and events they presume to report on, then it is to be expected that sports media people who in most cases are even more mediocre and more challenged would not assume the same level of egoism?
JWL
Sanders contribution to the the Niners last Super Bowl team was incalculable. After joining the team once the baseball season ended, their defense elevated itself immediately, and played brilliantly the rest of the season. His departure to Dallas the next year ranks among the best signings by a team in NFL history. I was very sorry to see him go.
He definitely has an appointment with Canton. But I never think of him in the same hard hitting company of Lambert, Lott, or Tatum. Rather, I think of him as the ball hawk’s ball hawk. As Omar Visqel would toy with base runners by timing his throws to reach first base a half-step ahead of them, so Sanders would time his coverage by laying back until the ball was in the air before shifting into his lightening gear. He was poetry in motion. On top of that, he’s an intelligent and articulate commentator on the NFL network.
parenthetical
Why does everybody hate Cutler so much? It’s not like he raped anyone. Oops, sorry John.
Also, too, I like “pulling a Haine”. “He pulled a Haine on your hiney.” I’d like to hear Troy Aikman say that.
Elie
@MattR:
Answer:
MattR
@Elie:
As I said above. Cutler is absolutely fine with the status quo. The ones who are not are the fans.
@Elie:
It is so kind of you to allow me to either accept your world view or STFU without any criticism allowed. I will make sure to refer John or DougJ back to this thread when they point and laugh at the media for expecting a politician to play their little game.
Elie
@grandpajohn:
One little point here, Grandpa. Cutler is not some poor “everyman” being “abused” by the villainous media. He is an indulged, highly paid celebrity who earns his bread of the public who pay for those seats and buy the products that give the ad makers all the major dough.
I do not see an unjust equation in asking him to “give back” a little time and respect to the people who give him a very nice living as though it was some dark obligation to the undeserving.
Not sure what story you were spinning about this, but this is no unsung hero
PTirebiter
@New Yorker:
Exactly.
Jay Cutler’s not a guy you’d want to have a beer with, so obviously, he’s a week-willed, elitist defeatist.
JWL
Well, after praising his intelligence up-thread, I just read where Sanders questioned Cutler’s toughness. That wasn’t very smart. In fact, it was downright chicken-shit.
I tore my knee twenty years ago, and was unable to drive because the pain was too excruciating for me to use the clutch. Thank God for arthroscopic surgery.
Elie
@MattR:
I don’t think that I swore at you.
Also, the context was not that your opinion is not valued. It was that if you did not think that he could change his behavior, or wanted to, that it did not seem worthwhile to complain about the results.
Hey there, do you represent him or something? You speak with such knowledge about what he wants or doesnt want. Just wondering…
Elie
@PTirebiter:
I think that there is some confusion. Jay is totally of course, free to be exactly as he is, beer or no beer. I just think its only fair to then say to his unequivocal supporters, then he should take (and you should take), what he gets and stop complaining about the indignity of being doubted or booed or not supported when times get tough.
None of y’all who think he should be FREE, seem to say, well, allright. No complaints then. He is fine with it and that is that (except his agent, MattR who agrees he doent need no stinkin fans)
MattR
@Elie: I did not mean STFU literally. But that is the essence of it when you present the options as either change your behavior or accept the results without complaining. For Cutler himself, it is surely not wise to complain about the expectations. But as a fan of Cutler (which I have been since my Broncos drafted him) or as just a fan of the game, I surely have the right to mock the expectations as unrealistic (EDIT: for any athlete)
Elie
@MattR:
Yep, you have a right to question the expectations but why mock them? What is the source of your contempt for fans who like their athletic heroes to be responsive and nice to them? I’m not making a case for giving over your life and privacy to fans, but just to being nice, a little accessible and a little respect for the little guy who frequently lives through experiences that they will never have? Is it such a big thing, really? Why all the push back on fan contact? And unfortunately, much of that IS facilitated by the media in some way.
I live in the Northwest now, but when I was living in my old hometown Chicago, I LOVED going to the games or going over to my cousin’s house with a ton of folks. One of the highlights of my life was that for about three years I volunteered in the Bears pressbox and was working there the year (1985-6) that they went to the Super Bowl. I am a down and dirty BEARS fan though thick and thin — and believe me, we have had more thin than thick.
Walking down near the field where you can see the action and the players, and see the kids who can get their signatures or attention — its a great thing. A small great thing.
There is joy and great satisfaction in the ping pong match of a give and take relationship. It feels good for both sides. Jay could get some of that. He could.
PanAmerican
They needled him up with a local and braced his knee at halftime. It was still unstable and he couldn’t plant. So the staff sat him down. Shit happens. Between the Bears garbage offensive line and Martz’s QB killing sets it was a miracle he lasted until the title game.
Mnemosyne
@RareSanity:
Really? You were fully aware in the 8th grade that repeated concussions from playing football could lead to early Alzheimer’s? And you were old enough and mature enough to make your decisions based on that knowledge?
At this point, we’re not just talking about a guy who lost a leg because it got fractured one too many times while he was a professional. We’re talking about people who suffered and are suffering permanent, irreversible brain damage and are told to just “suck it up.” And the NFL is doing approximately jack shit to help them.
C.S.
@Elie:
Well, I for one have no contempt for fans who want that. A little sadness, sure, because it seems pretty juvenile, but whatever. I also have a certain degree of ambivalence towards fans who — like you — have simply decided to hate on a guy for no apparent reason. On this and the other thread, all you’ve said was, basically, “Cutler’s an asshole — did you see him rockin’ to his private music stash? What a douche!” What has he done to you other than single-handedly get your team to the NFC Championship?
While you couch your vilification in reasonable-sounding tones, it is quite clear that there is nothing — absolutely nothing — that Jay Cutler could do to win you over. Nothing. You’re acting like you’re this even-handed observer, but you’re clearly not. He could buy you a puppy and you’d complain it poops too much. He could buy you dinner and you’d complain he didn’t spring for a better bottle of wine. Why is this so clear? Because you can’t give any good damn objective reason why you don’t like him. Every time you talk about him (earbud, detached look) his assholery depends entirely on having a pre-conceived notion about him. But the fact is he hasn’t done one single thing that someone other than you (and certainly someone other than Trent Dilfer) couldn’t use as an example of toughness, leadership, strength of character, whatever.
Now, maybe there are examples, but you haven’t given them. The earbud? Please. The “detached look”? Come on — that’s your subjective perception which is clearly biased against the guy. Which is fine! Sports should elicit passions like this lest they be directed in less socially acceptable directions. You don’t like him, I get it. But don’t pretend that you’re somehow justified in random unfounded contempt simply because you’re a fan and you are owed something.
agorabum
I think it’s the cutler pout. He had a great one in Denver, especially when the broncos collapsed at the end of the season to let San Diego into the playoffs.
A little sideline pouting goes a long way.
RareSanity
@Mnemosyne:
I was perfectly aware, that at any point during practice, or a game, I could break my neck and die.
Not only that, I submit to you, that a very large percentage of current NFL players and college football players, would gladly except the risks you outline, for the fame and fortune of playing pro football. I don’t see anybody quitting even with those risks now being known.
I stand by my statement. I knew that there was a risk for serious bodily injury, even death. I choose to play anyway.
C.S.
If that’s true, agorabum, it’s really sad. In order to read his “pout” as a negative characteristic, you have to read a lot into it (beginning with calling it a “pout”) that may or may not be there. True story — my sister’s got a wandering eye, and when she didn’t get a particular job that she thought for sure she’d get, she asked a friend who worked at the company what went wrong. The word she got back was that she appeared disinterested in the interview, because (the interviewer said) she never made eye contact.
A lot of the stuff I read about Cutler seems to me remarkably similar — people reading things into his actions or expressions, then criticizing him for not changing something that didn’t need to be changed because they just made it up. Then they criticize him for being aloof with the media despite the fact that he can’t seem to do a damn thing that isn’t taken out of context. Everything is grist for the mill, once they’ve decided they don’t like you.
C.S.
@RareSanity:
Barry Sanders. Robert Smith. Tiki Barber . . .
RareSanity
@C.S.:
You’re not really attempting, in any way to put forth, that those people are anything but anomalies, right?
Every year, there are about 1700 players, on active NFL rosters, not including practice squads. You have given 3 examples, that cover a span of more than a decade. Two of which never stated that they were retiring, specifically because of, the risks associated with repeated concussions.
Like I said, a very large percentage of current NFL players, gladly accept the risks to their health, for the fame and fortune of playing in the NFL.
PETE
@C.S.
This, again.
Let’s do a few thought experiments.
1. Let’s say yesterday on the play that injured him Cutler theatrically flopped to the turf moaning and screaming after the injury like all those hard-ass soccer players do. Maybe he came out for the 3rd quarter in a neck brace and had Collins push him around the sidelines in a wheelchair instead of trying to play for a series. Maybe every time Fox trained a camera on him he should’ve winced and held up his colostomy bag filled with blood. Would the situation be any different today, or would people be critcizing him for being melodramatic? This, of course, assumes the injury was more serious.
2. If Cutler shows up for the first press conference of next season and is a “changed man,” at least in the terms that Elie and Michael Wilbon would like: he’s gregarious, he’s personable, affable, amiable, jocular even! He smiles, slaps reporters on the back and laughs uproariously at their jokes. Instead of his anonymous charity work he makes a big show of dishing out food at a soup kitchen and signing footballs for homeless kids. Would Elie and Wilbon and the rest be satisfied, or would they all question his sincerity?
PETE
Also, this from Windy City Gridiron:
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/640686/msm.jpg
Just about right.
C.S.
@RareSanity:
Well, you had a pretty emphatic statement that I was responding to. You said “I don’t see anybody quitting . . .” So here are three people who quit in the prime of their careers at about the time the dangers were becoming more known. Now you want them to have specifically stated the reason. Now you pass them off as anomalies. Whatever, dude.
Goalpost moving is a fine and treasured art, but I thought in a football thread, of all places, it would be a little more verboten.
Elie
@C.S.:
You just want to pick a fight, and I won’t do that with you.
You could not possibly know what I do and do not think about Cutler.
Get lost
Your presumptions about me and other “fans” …
.
And its YOU that have contempt. Its your language. Unless you know Cutler, which I doubt, you are just projecting your own misanthropy and disaffection onto him..
You are a fight walking around looking for an opportunity
MattR
@C.S.: The other part of the discussion being ignored is that there is a difference between “always knowing there was a risk” and “understanding exactly what that risk is”. Every football player since the beginning of the game goes out there with the understanding that there may be some freak accident that leaves him paralyzed or dead. Similarly they know that there is a chance that they will break a bone or rupture something in a joint or something similar. They even know that they might have long term physical problems long after they stop playing as a result. But I don’t think any of them knew the extent of the dangers associated with repeated brain traumas. (And I don’t think that we have figured out the answer yet, but we have a much better idea today than we did even 10 years ago) I am not going to try and say that someone like Mike Webster would have made different choices, but I am pretty confident in saying that he did not have the same information that todays players have.
RareSanity
@C.S.:
Correlation does not imply causation.
Well, you see, I was replying to someone specifically addressing the new information about affects of repeated concussions. Therefore, it follows that my response, was related to…say it with me…affects of repeated concussions.
So, because you can’t follow a theme past any one comment, I’ll clarify my statement. I don’t see anybody, that are otherwise still physically able to play in the NFL, retiring from the NFL, specifically because of the latest information regarding the lasting affects of repeated concussions.
Whatever, indeed.
C.S.
@Elie:
Yes, you have certainly shown yourself to be far above such matters.
Well, actually, you know this is not true, because you’ve spent a great deal of time today on this and the other thread explaining exactly what you do and do not think about Cutler. Unless, of course, you were just making shit up about what you thought about him. Kind of like how you made shit up about what he was listening to.
Seriously? I mean, seriously? Your posts have been masterpieces of projection from the get-go, knowing Cutler’s heart as you so intimately do. But I’m the one projecting? You’ve decided to rip a guy who single-handedly got your team to that game, without any help, for an absolutely unexplained and unsupported reason, and I’m the one who’s misanthropic? Seriously — get help.
Ailuridae
@MattR:
The weird thing is that I have seen him “out on the town” a couple of times in Chicago (usually with the TE from Miami) and for a pro athlete out and about he is surprisingly not a dick at all. Treats the staff well, tips well doesn’t demand special treatment etc.
C.S.
@RareSanity:
Thank you for the clarification setting an impossible standard. It really does wonders for your argument.
C.S.
@Ailuridae:
And the thing is, for Elie and his/her ilk, this would be more proof of how uncommitted Cutler is, how he is not a leader, how he just doesn’t get it, how he doesn’t have the respect of his teammates — i.e., why the TE from Miami? Why isn’t he going out on the town with Bears players?
MattR
@C.S.:
I assume this is Bears TE Greg Olsen who went to U of Miami
MTW
@asiangrrlMN:
Plus, Cutler is a diabetic. Taking a cortisone shot is a dicey proposition for him.
Mnemosyne
@RareSanity:
I hate pointing this out, but isn’t the fact that most of those NFL players have already suffered irreversible brain damage — probably before they even graduated from high school — not exactly a sign that they’re making the most logical and rational choices for their health?
And it’s true — people will do anything for fame and fortune. I’m not sure why that means we should encourage them to neglect and deny their injuries for our entertainment.
It’s not the fact that people get injured. You can get injured doing almost anything. It’s the fact that we glamorize people who make their injuries worse than they needed to be and encourage other people to deliberately damage their health so they can look like “tough guys,” too.
ETA: For fuck’s sake, players are dying of completely preventable causes like heat stroke and your claim is that they freely chose it, so we shouldn’t be insisting that coaches give their players water when they need it?
Ailuridae
@MattR:
Yeah, him. I have a mental block on his name because he reminds me of Kyle Turley.
Elie
@Ailuridae:
I am sure that this is true and that one on one, with the people he selects in his personal circle, he is just fine. With his team mates he is fine.
Listen, CS. You win. I give up. My attempt has become distorted with trying to explain . It was not to destroy Cutler or his reputation. Quite the opposite. He above all, is someone the Bears need to succeed. I did not understand why he couldnt adjust his behavior in the slightest sense to improve his and the image of his team. You have converted that to a much darker and unnecessary interpretation.
But it doesnt matter.
Goodnight
Elie
@Ailuridae:
Sorry, meant that addressed to CS.
Glocksman (I chose this nick years ago0
@Ash Can:
Hell, I broke my hand at work and didn’t realize it until 5 hours after the fact when it started to swell like a balloon.
That said, I don’t have a dog in this fight other than that Jay’s high school team hails from southwestern Indiana, so take it for what its worth when I say that while he may or may not have been a p*ssy in the past, this time he was most certainly not.
C.S.
@Elie:
It probably says something really bad about my character that I can’t just let it go at that. But I can’t, and here’s why . . . you say:
It’s that part that just sticks in my craw, and is so maddening. It’s so freaking maddening that you can’t see that the whole purpose of this whole exercise — all the people on two threads who were engaging with you — was to get you to see that Cutler doesn’t need to adjust his behavior. Why? Because he hasn’t done anything wrong. “Adjust his behavior” to what? Tell us what, specifically, he’s done wrong. Tell us what, specifically, he could do to set it right. Really, you should tell us — hell, there might be something, but jeebus knows you haven’t said what it is. But otherwise all that we’re left with is your vague accusations, a general “feeling” that he’s a dick, and the beyond-strange rantings of Trent Dilfer. And it’s your very reluctance to admit — even for one second — that you might have misjudged the guy, might have misread him, might not have given him the benefit of the doubt you would have given to, say, Kyle-Effing-Orton, that leads me to question whether there actually is anything Cutler could do or could have done which would placate you.
On the other thread, I think Pete put it quite succinctly. “First he was faking an injury. The MRI says he’s injured, so now it’s not “getting involved” enough. Hanie says he was taking to Cutler throughout. So now it’s the ear buds, which are evidently connected to the playcall feed. So then it’s his expression, or the fact that he wasn’t icing his knee in 20 degree weather (which, to your credit, you haven’t gone there yet), or the fact that he was standing, or, or , or.”
Here’s the thing: even though Cutler doesn’t owe you anything personally, you don’t owe him anything either. You can hate on him all you want without any reason, because you’re a fan. I get it, we all get it, you’re a fan. The nails-on-chalkboard moment comes when you try to explain your hatred as rational, as grounded in a sober analysis of Cutler’s strengths and weaknesses, followed by this blinkered unwillingness to own up to how silly your justifications sound when examined by those who don’t reflexively share your hatred. Just hate the guy! Don’t try to justify it! It’s your right as a fan!