The Founders intended, that in the face of injustice larger than any individual, that Kirk could contact his Senator or Congressman, and Government by the People would never have let this happen in the first place, and Government for the People would right this wrong.
Our representation is no help here. Seriously. Those that know, point us in the right direction, please.
4.
morzer
Would it help if an enraged mob burnt the local branch of BoA (the reptile bank) to the ground?
5.
burnspbesq
Call Georgia PIRG at (404) 892-3405.
Call the local Legal Aid Society.
Go on the websites of the big Atlanta law firms (King & Spalding, Sutherland Asbill & Brennan, et al), find the name and telephone number of the pro bono coordinator, and call him or her. Or just call the main switchboard and ask to speak to the pro bono coordinator.
Way back when, I looked at my unemployment (then six months) and realized the mortgage payment was part of the reason I was paying $1000 more per month than I was taking in. I requested a loan modification at that time. I was told I had to miss a payment to do this. I did so.
…
At that point I got a “trial payment” plan – a reduced amount to pay every month while the workout proceeded.
…
Know what? The shortfall in those payments count against my delinquency.
…
So I’m behind because Bank of America told me to pay less. And because I did what Bank of America told me to do, Bank of America will foreclose on my house.
I’m speechless. Literally speechless.
8.
jwb
@burnspbesq: It hasn’t been tried here in a long time.
9.
Politically Lost
When I first got admitted as an attorney two years ago I worked for a firm trying to do mortgage mods. Long story short, NONE of the serviceors acted in good faith. Some would grant mods but there was no rhyme or reason on how they would handle a case. Kirk’s story is just like 50 others I saw.
After the banks bought the California legislature and made it illegal to take payment on a loan mod up front it effectively killed attorneys trying to help people stay in their homes. Ostensibly, the law was designed to fight fly by night loan mod places from taking money from distressed home buyers and not helping them obtain mods. Their was some abuse of course because the same slugs that were in the loan business before were now offering help with loan mods at exorbitant rates.
My firm just won’t touch that shit anymore because you can’t get paid, the banks don’t ever deal in good faith, and when you sue for obvious fraud or violations of truth in lending, the banks hire huge national law firms and fight to the death.
Attorneys general of the states need to be empowered and act like special prosecutors and skull fuck those banks like the back alley whores that they are.
Could Kirk bring a lawsuit against BoA for being incompetent fuckwads and causing him to lose his house?
13.
Martin
@freelancer: That’s quite common. The banks are totally, totally fucking up the loan modification program.
Banks are practically in the business of processing paperwork and they are so utterly fucking bad at it that they should have their corporate charters revoked.
But Kirk needs to get an attorney to get a judge to look at the fact that BofA is telling him two contradictory things.
14.
TuiMel
You know, I have donated recently (what is for me) a lot of $$ to try to keep Republicans from re-taking the reigns of federal power. I would have much preferred that those resources had gone to help people like Kirk. The unspeakable amount of wealth that is being pissed away on elections – barring the gates or trying to bust them – simply depresses me at this moment.
15.
mai naem
If there was an ambitious attorney general out there, they would pick some stuff like this and run with it. But they won’t because most pols are bought off or scared off.
And as far as suing BofA? These are the same fuckheads who have foreclosed on homes that had no mortgage. They’ve had sub contractors go to the wrong address. They’ve had keys changed illegally on houses that were not either theirs or were not yet in foreclosure.
BTW, these dickwads are the same ones who are setting up investment funds to buy property tax liens and making money off those. These are the dickheads that Obama is too scared of to go after.
How does Obama go after them when his own party won’t support him?
Just askin’.
18.
Mayken
This shocks me not at all – angers and raises my blood pressure, yes, but surprises, no. BOFA is evil. Always has been, always will be. When my mother lay dying in hospice, they refused to accept the duly signed and notarized power of attorney because they hadn’t been the ones paid to notarize it. Never mind the only way that could have happened was if she came in to the bank. Did I mention she was dying in hospice? Thay couldn’t care less.
After she died we took the death cert and closed all of here accounts out and I told them point blank I’d never do business with them and would tell this story at every opportunity.
Fucking bastards! I hate BOFA with the fire of a thousand suns.
19.
Martin
@TuiMel: I agree. Meg Whitman could have kept 1/4 of California’s 15,000 laid off teachers employed for what she’s personally dumped into her campaign.
Slightly longer answer: what pisses off folks in Georgia may not resonate at all in Oregon. We are a very large very diverse country that for all intents and purposes shouldn’t be as united as we are.
The appeal of French cheese, wine, culture, political activism, and great literature grows on me. Perhaps it is time to move to a country where the people still manage to fight for social justice once in a while.
22.
nwithers
I’ll cross post this to Kirk’s site, but I’m interested in what other balloon-juicers think about this advice, and maybe it will dig somebody else out of a deep hole. INAL, but the advice seems pretty straight forward.
This is what I sent to my cousins in Florida about two years ago (written from memory) when they were about 2 weeks from being kicked out of their house. They lived about another rent-free about another 16 months before they decided
Step 1: Get a Lawyer
I mean it. You will be able to direct your lawyer to do things that will make the big banks cry in this day and age, they just want you to roll over and take it. Even if you are completely in the wrong (which I am doubting), It will be possible to drag things out for six months at the very minimum, and possibly for multiple years. Think of him as an IT professional, he can do the boring bits, but you need to direct him. Think a lawyer is too expensive? how much is your house worth? Don’t be cheap and let the bank rape you easy.
Another thing… If the bank says they want to do arbitration, and can’t force you to do it, tell them to spin on a one legged stool with no seat, the arbitration companies know which side of the bread for them is buttered, it’s a sucker move, don’t be a bank sucker.
Step 2: Document everything you send to your bank
If you haven’t been doing it already, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that you mail to your bank dealing with a loan needs to be sent certified mail. What does this mean? with certified mail you get proof of receipt of any mail that you have sent the bank. It is legal to send US documents of a classified nature marked “confidential”. Any document that the bank receives has to be signed by a member of the bank, and you get a copy of that signature. What this means, is that if the bank is stupid to say “we never got the mail”, you can prove that they were LYING.. in WRITING… to the judge. Judges don’t like that, judges REALLY don’t like that.
Step 3:
Tell your lawyer to make the bank produce the note to the house. No note, possession is 9/10th of the law. That scrap of paper is the magic that says who really owns the house, and who has sent paid thugs or bribed/defrauded police officers to seize said property. If the bank is giving you a runaround like “you are missing documents” they don’t have the note, you have temps handling you, MAKE THEM PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THE NOTE.
Step 4: (New trick for late 2010)
Point out to your lawyer that the banks have been caught engaging in a MASSIVE “fraud upon the court” (magic lawyer words there) across the entire country. If your lawyer can show that any of the documents that your bank has provided have been prepared by a “robo-signer”, It will be huge. INAL, but showing that notarized documents were illegally prepared in such a horrible fashion that it might cross the line into forgery would be a powerful weapon against the banks.
Step 5*:
Check these things with your lawyer first, always. A lawyer is a cross between an IT specialist and a priest. If a lawyer screws you for the bank and you can prove it (documentation is key here, keep those copies), you can visit a world of pain on them that makes losing your house look like a minor surgery.
You have attempted to act in good faith, the banks have probably acted in bad faith in such a fashion that can be proved in a court of law. Feed your anger in this, do not give into resignation, that is what the banks want.
By tying the banks up in the courts you will probably be able to live 6-12 months in your house in the worst case. If you want to go Gonzo, or are resigned to losing the house, stop paying your monthly payments immediately, and stash them in an account somewhere.
By doing this one of 3 things will happen in the end. #1 the court gives you the property free and clear due to massive fraud (not likely, but hey). You get 6-12 months of mortgage payments you have saved as money for whatever you want. #2 the bank figures they can cut a deal with you, and now you have 6-12 months of cash saved up as a bargaining chip for a starting lump sum. #3 Bank wins, but you have 6-12 months worth of mortgage cash to find an apt and use as a cushion for your ruined credit score (though that hurts less than you might think these days).
23.
Martin
@mai naem: What do you expect Obama to do? Property law is pretty much exclusively at the state level. It really is up to the states to deal with that.
DOJ is investigating the lenders and banks, which is pretty much all Obama can do until Warren gets her operation going. I suppose Congress could do something, but they’re on break.
Did you have something specific in mind, or is this just more insistence that ‘something’ happen?
If there was an ambitious attorney general out there, they would pick some stuff like this and run with it. But they won’t because most pols are bought off or scared off.
I know we all have a sense of urgency about this, but it’s not like nothing is being done and no one is investigating. State attorneys general have been investigating this since at least August, if not before.
See also Massacio on why requiring the bank to produce the note is a useful thing to do.
&, as has been said above, get a lawyer.
26.
cckids
This happened to us almost exactly a year ago. Our oldest son spent a combined 10 months of the years 2007-2009 in the hospital; I could no longer work even part-time; the economic meltdown dropped my spouse’s business income by 40%. We approached our lender for a modification–not even a drastic one, just a temporary lowering of payments/interest, for 3-5 years, to give us the time to recover. We followed the advice of our lender (Ocwen was servicing our loan), skipped one payment & the dominoes started to fall. We were positive that they’d go through with the modification–we weren’t asking for principal reduction (even tho, living in Vegas, boy, were we underwater). We hadn’t pulled tons of cash out of the house; we had some equity until the value dropped over 40%. Why, in FSM’s name, would they want ANOTHER run-of-the-mill house in Vegas?? (I mean, we loved it, but it was no mansion). There were 4-5 foreclosed houses in every block!!! Of course, the servicing agency could care less–they make more cash the longer the foreclosure process drags on & they don’t take the loss, as its not their paper.
But, of course, they wanted it. And took it. We stayed as long as we felt we could, but with the needs of our oldest son (wheelchair, vent, etc), we have some specific needs for housing, & needed some time to find a new place. Also, we’ve got 2 teenagers, the foreclosure & move was trauma enough without waiting for the sheriff to show up. We left on our terms, with a bit of a cushion saved up, since we stopped even trying to make payments when it became quite obvious what their game was.
Funnily, we’re now renting a house that’s much larger (great for the teens), better neighborhood, lower energy costs (newer, more efficient), for exactly the amount we wanted our mortgage reduced to. Our old house still sits empty, the nice yard & landscaping dead, one of 5 on that street. Hope they choke on it.
It has and always will be that the little guy has the shitty end of the stick. Now so more than in a long, long time. Probably more than most of our lifetimes. But you can play the game to a degree, you just need to know their rules and play by them. As burnspbesq and nwithers have pointed out there are usually ways to, if nothing else, slow the process to the point they may give up. It has to be more expensive to the bank than it’s worth. Right now that’s probably not as much as we can imagine. The banks, especially the big boys, are in a world of shit, of their own making. They are hoping to screw over enough of us to make up for the problems(money they are losing) they have caused. If enough people make it hard enough for them the whole house of cards will fall. We don’t need to burn down a bank. We don’t need to do anything except make the rules work for us as much as possible. Be as intractable as possible. It may work out for the best as nwithers said. Worse case you really aren’t any worse off than you were and it may get you down the road far enough to help.
Bottom line, banks don’t care about you, your house, your life, your spouse, your kids, your anything. It’s all about the money. Their Money. Make this more expensive for them than your neighbor does and you might score. If enough of the neighbors do that we might just have a ball game.
For Scottie Church, 39, of Winder, Ga., the answer is simple: “It’s time to get back to basics. It’s time for [the federal government] to get out of the way and let the private sector do its job.”
…
And what, pray tell, is the private sector’s job? Does Scottie Church even know? Has anyone thought to ask? If Scottie Church is talking about “capitalism”, well, capitalism’s job is to maximize profit. Not create jobs, maximize profit. And if maximizing profit means poisoning an entire community with toxic sludge or crude oil or benzene; if it means sending all the jobs to Asia in a never-ending chase for the most exploitable workers; if it means screwing over every man, woman and child in America, well, that’s immaterial to the goals of capitalism. Capitalism is about profit, and ONLY profit. So I’d like someone to ask Scottie Church if that’s what he/she means.
,,,
We are a profoundly ignorant. People don’t know anything about their own religions. We know little of our own history, let alone our history in context with the rest of the world. We worship sports heroes who torture dogs, but we point at scientists and laugh. A profoundly messed-up woman like Christine O’Donnell can run on a platform of “See? I can’t manage my finances either. I’m you.” We had eight years of a dry drunk as president because people thought he was the guy they’d want to have a beer with — as if that were ever going to happen. Now there are people who would vote to give the nuclear codes to an aging high school mean girl because they’d like to fuck her — as if that’s ever going to happen. Smart people are regarded with scorn as “elites.” Ignorance is regarded as a virtue.
…
This is how an empire dies. And we are going to be around to see it.
Kirk should absolutely not be handling this without an attorney. Own lawyer, fool for client, etc. Trite, but true.
Please Kirk, get a lawyer and put him/her between you and the bank.
30.
hamletta
I went to his place and sent him to NACA. They are great.
They formed from a union in Boston in the ’80s, and they do awesome, obnoxious union-thug stuff like get hundreds of people to picket the CEO of the latest predatory lender.
They’ve badgered most of the major lenders into dealing with them to help people keep their houses.
I’m staving off foreclosure myself, and I don’t know how they’ll work out for me personally, but I love their style. (The Web site is hideous, though.)
31.
Xenos
America needs a lot less Tea Party and a lot more Daniel Shays. I would not be surprised to find the kids from these families being foreclosed are growing up to form our own version of the Red Brigades.
32.
klondike
The only thing I can do for Kirk is to shoot back – i.e. demand the note, as he suggested. Go here.
33.
sherifffruitfly
Have a really big party in the house.
Invite Motley Crue, Def Leppard, and Led Zepplin. The ones who are still alive, at any rate.
34.
bkny
and the claims by banks that they’ve reviewed cases they’ve closed on and found 99.999% compliance are fucking lies. (i’m seeing these proclamations alot in the press.) the cook county sheriff who has ceased foreclosures there just for this reason noted they reviewed 350 foreclosure cases and 17 had the required documentation.
this guy’s a friggin hero:
Dart said his office reviewed 350 foreclosure cases and only 17 had complete paperwork to justify an eviction. The approximately 1,500 cases affected by Dart’s halt represent about a third of the foreclosure evictions his office handles each year, he said.
“I can’t possibly be expected to evict people from their homes when the banks themselves can’t say for sure everything was done properly,” Dart said in a statement today.
I just got news that one of the two dogs I rescued from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina has died. Roxie was found in the countryside next to the town of Roxie, MS (near Natchez). She was nearly starved to death, but with care and attention she rebounded. Sadly, I was not able to bring Roxie to Europe when I moved here (Pitbull issues) last year and has been in the care of my son back home.
She was put to sleep by our vet when her cancer became too much for her to bear. Her exact age is unknown, but she was with us for the last five years of her life. She will be missed.
WASHINGTON_ Despite news reports of high-level talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government, no significant peace negotiations are under way in Afghanistan, U.S. officials and Afghanistan experts said Thursday.
__
These same experts said the reports, which appeared in a number of U.S. media outlets, could be part of a U.S. “information strategy” to divide and weaken the Taliban leadership.
__
“This is a psychological operation, plain and simple,” said a U.S. official with firsthand knowledge of Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s outreach effort.
__
“Exaggerating the significance of it (the contacts) is an effort to sow distrust within the insurgency, to make insurgents suspicious with each other and to send them on witch hunts looking for traitors who want to negotiate with the enemy,” said the U.S. official. He requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly…
__
..U.S. officials and Afghanistan experts said insurgent leaders have no incentive at the moment to engage in serious talks. They pointed out that insurgents still hold sway over large swaths of Afghanistan despite sustaining significant losses in Army Gen. David Petraeus’ intensified counterinsurgency drive and stepped-up night raids by U.S. Special Operations Forces.
Once again, McClatchy commits the sin of actual journalism, where you go out and doublecheck what the government tells you, even when it has to do with war & stuff.
I don’t think, though, that an investigation like this is enough to stop pundits from talking about ‘the peace talks.’
37.
geg6
My god, Kirk. You are being screwed and I feel for you and your family. I have no better advice than anyone here and urge you to demand the papers (bet they can’t produce) and get a lawyer.
I am still stunned that my John was able to get a modification a few months ago. Seems more of a miracle every day.
38.
Michael
From a practical standpoint, I’m still puzzled over what BoA and the other big lenders think is going to happen as a consequence of them holding so much foreclosed inventory. That sure in shit isn’t going to prop up prices, and will wind up costing an assload of money for maintenance of the empty shells.
They never think – its all minute to minute to them. They’re costing themselves serious longterm money, and driving prices down in the process (empty houses aren’t as appealing to buyers – the absence of furniture seems to make it difficult for them to envision living there).
Something else that they haven’t considered – empty houses, even while maintained, still fall apart. I’ve never understood it, but have seen it time and again with estate properties. Major appliances and water heaters quit, toilets won’t flush, sinks won’t drain, doors quit fitting, windows balk on opening and closing. It is a very real effect – something about the continual use keeps things going.
39.
El Cid
@geg6: I think he was saying that such demands for paperwork don’t seem to be making a difference.
If this were a judicial state, by the way, that would be enough to challenge the whole issue of foreclosure on the question of where the note might be. It would be enough to do so in many other non-judicial states as well. Here in Georgia it’s not enough. Servicer can proceed. Trust me, I’ve asked.
Maybe we should start demanding that if banks take the house back, that we get our money back we’ve already paid in.
GOP congressional candidate Stephen Broden says violent overthrow of government is ‘on the table’
__ Dallas Morning News | Thursday, October 21, 2010
__
By MELANIE MASON / Washington Bureau
__
WASHINGTON – Republican congressional candidate Stephen Broden stunned his party Thursday, saying he would not rule out violent overthrow of the government if elections did not produce a change in leadership.
__
In a rambling exchange during a TV interview, Broden, a South Dallas pastor, said a violent uprising “is not the first option,” but it is “on the table.” That drew a quick denunciation from the head of the Dallas County GOP, who called the remarks “inappropriate.”
Given the violent nature of these remarks, I demand that NPR apologize for no longer continuing to pay Juan Williams for commentary. I am not a bigot.
I also demand an investigation into those two guys who call themselves the New Black Panther Party.
My firm handles BofA and JPMorgan foreclosure cases. California is a non-judicial foreclosure state. Google tells me that Georgia is both a judicial and non-judicial state.
I’m not sure how much help I could be, but I’m willing to try. There are partners who have a direct line to BofA.
If you want to drop me a line [email protected], please feel free and I’ll see what I can do.
I’m sorry. It sucks. I had to stop working those cases because I found them morally repugnant and was on the verge of quitting my job as a result before I got transferred to a different area of law.
I also have friends who work at Alston & Bird in Atlanta (I worked at the Cal. office for a year).
Kirk, I’m a foreclosure attorney in a judicial state- I’ll second nwithers’ advice at #22. Assuming that you have equity in your house and you cannot rent as cheaply as you could own (at the modified mortgage payment) then I urge you to get an attorney. Finding a good one isn’t easy. Most of the foreclosure bar work at non-profits like I do- there are also lots of pro bono programs run by local bar associations. In these programs lawyers donate their time and are usually supervised by experienced foreclosure attorneys.
One caveat: forget the big or even medium firms- they won’t touch foreclosure defense against a major bank because of conflicts with their corporate overlords.
Most important for your case is to know what entity is trying to foreclose on you and whether they actually own your loan. First stop is your local county clerk to see what documents are recorded against your property. If you have a copy of the mortgage as recorded, and if a subsequent assignment of that mortgage is recorded, a good attorney can usually pick apart the assignment.
Go to the SEIU site linked above by Klondike and demand a copy of your note, as well. And good luck.
44.
evap
Advice for everyone: Find a credit union and ditch your bank. I have access to a credit union through work and we do everything through them including our mortgage. Credit unions are non-profit!
I think he was saying that such demands for paperwork don’t seem to be making a difference.
Thanks to a not liberal, lazy judiciary, that would be the very pickle he is in. And judges who self-describe as “conservative” are even worse.
My remaining time in this mortal coil is devoted to have people spit whenever they hear the word “conservative”. Part in disgust, part in a bid to ward off the evil.
This happened to a friend of mine in Florida. Her husband lost his job. She called the bank right away — they told her nothing could be done until they stopped paying. Two years of misery because the bank refused to work with them at all. They are in a rental house now.
47.
Beth
I work for Bank of America and I’m sorry Kirk is going through this. I left a comment on his blog for him to contact me. I may be able to help him.
TeaTards are such devotees of the Constitution that they’re willing to overthrow it.
He’s undoubtedly one of those pukes who get weepy every time somebody sings “Proud to be ‘Murkan”, and when he sees a dirty faced white soldier having a smoke while off in a faraway place.
Of course, he’s never been in a uniform, but some ‘o them godless heathens in them other places need killin’ if we’re a gonna bring ’em the savin’ grace o’ Jeeeezus Chraaaahst, and ahr boys is a-gonna git ‘er done.
49.
mikefromArlington
They’ve turned foreclosures into a money making scheme. Now that they can’t make billions off of the bubble expanding, they’ve decided to cash in on people.
50.
WyldPirate
@Martin:
It seems like something like mail fraud would come into play if these documents crossed state lines.
Personally, I wish there were some we the RICO statutes could be applied to these banks. They are far more deserving of it than the mafia and other organized criminals ever were. Plus, that is what they have been engaged in–widespread, racketeering, corruption, fraud and theft on a global scale and on a scale unprecedented in human history.
The only fraudulent organizations that even come close to the criminality of these too-big-to-fail banks is the Catholic Church.
Isn’t it a moral hazard for the bankers to be able to profit without having to fulfill their basic professional obligation?
52.
Legalize
Kirk has to get a lawyer. Even in non-judicial states, things can be done to kick BoA in the balls.
This cannot be overstated: BANKS DO NOT WANT TO DO LOAN MODS. Never trust them to do one.
This foreclosure mess is going to be the problem that defines the world economy for a generation or more.
53.
Legalize
@Michael:
They think they’re gonna get bailed out again.
54.
Walker
I requested a loan modification at that time. I was told I had to miss a payment to do this. I did so.
Unfortunately, this is why you should never try to deal with a bank without a lawyer.
55.
Bullsmith
B of A is negotiating in bad faith, lying to their clients to trick them into losing their homes ASAP. Saying, for instance, that they have to go into default on their loan in order to qualify for a modification they’ll never get is nothing but abuse and fraud by the bank.
Actually, this is quite common. I worked in the loss mitigation department for a private mortgage insurer for 11 years. If a borrower is making steady payments, he’s not seen as needing any help. When the loan goes delinquent, loss min efforts commence.
What BofA is doing to Kirk is unconscionable but also all too common. We recently closed on a short sale where they were the second lien holder and I was appalled at staggering incompetence evident in the approval letter they issued. None of this stuff is rocket science and with such high unemployment rates, I don’t understand why they can’t hire people whose IQs are at least slightly higher than room temperature.
Others have mentioned a lawyer, but the story sounds as if you have yet to be treated reasonably, so you must learn to fight back using any and every tool you can muster.
You can’t let the prospect of shame in your condition to limit your field of action. You can win this. It won’t be easy. It will be difficult. But you CAN do it.
Wow. Wake up one morning and discover there are people who give a crap and it’s an extraordinary feeling. Thank you all.
I’ll be responding to some of you off my blog, so general notes here.
re attorney – I’ve been working on getting one for about a week now. I kept being passed along to another recommendation. The major problem is that at two years of unemployment my savings are… let me make it simple. By the time I pay an attorney (at least what they tell me they’re going to charge me), I have to grab a chapter 7 bankruptcy as well. Ah well.
One thing I’d like to point out. A LOT of the foreclosures going on are because of unemployment, and mostly long-term unemployment. The slow economy and resulting cuts in pay or hours, even though it’s not unemployment, is what’s doing in many of the rest.
For those making general recommendations, please be aware that Georgia is what I call a greased skid state. Many laws are written to the significant advantage of the servicer. There are many reasons for that. As one example, Senator Isakson was a realtor. (Yes, I’ve dealt with his office, starting back in March. They sent me to another office, which sent me to another government office, which said they needed more than what I had to act.) Senator Chamblis’s office didn’t even return my (three) calls. Yeah.
Still, the outpouring of support has been invigorating, and there are some suggestions that might make a difference. For both, I thank you.
If you hire people who think for themselves, they will likely think you are asking them to do unconscionable things. When you totally abandon morality, it shrinks the pool of suitable labor somewhat. As you note, with the economy the way it is, if the help is incompetent I suspect it’s a feature, not a bug.
61.
mslarry
below a scenario from a close friend who’s a relator. the upshot if your shit is w/B of A HIDE YOUR MONEY!!!
.
had a client who attempted loan mod through B of A and had a similar experience to the blogger
lost paperowrk, nightmare contract negotiations…eventually the short sale closes. Seller goes about her life…about a week later, her a.t.m. card doesn’t work and her checks are bouncing. Why?? She had money in the bank…and because her accounts were with B of A, they knew it. They withdrew ALL of the money from her checking and saving accounts, without her knowledge or permission, to defray the loss they took on the short sale. So the seller is now unable to pay the rent on her new apartment or ANY of her other bills. She couldn’t even buy groceries or do anything until her next paycheck came in (which she cashed and deposited in a new account).
Soooo…if you are in any sort of “situation” with your mortgage, open a separate account and temporarily place your NEW money there. If you already have moeny in an account, find a way to “temporarily place” it somewhere new and undiscolsed. It’s a nightmare. Protect yourselves!
Can you believe these people? I’m w/Kirk and my friend, even if you are good standing get copies of your note. These people are EVIL!
For what it’s worth, I keep pushing an overall solution — not for me (alone) but for the whole mess.
Let the banks declare a foreclosure holiday while they correctly record all notes at the respective counties. At the end of the period, all properly recorded notes are still secured by the properties. Any unrecorded see the notes get severed from the titles.
A delinquent borrower is going to face loss, regardless — either foreclosure or bankruptcy. Their house, even in states with strong homestead laws, will not be free. But only the lender and servicer who can demonstrate right to the property get the property.
This will restore trust. That’s not a small deal. Trust that the remaining notes are fully secure will make them more valuable. It will also restore trust that the foreclosed property will be clean. Frankly, banks need to restore trust or they’re going to be severely diminished down the road.
The single largest obstacle is the entanglement of federal and state laws on this issue. Bluntly, the federal government cannot tell the states to do this, and cannot interfere in the foreclosure itself. They can get involved in secondary pressure points, but not the central element.
That obstacle is really the main problem of the whole mess. The effects are national. The banks causing the problems are national. But the critical instruments are states issues. For this reason no solution will be perfect.
65.
Maude
What about filing Chapter 13? Look into it. From what I have read, they can’t take the house if you do this. If this is so, file right away and let’s see what you do next.
Chapter 13 requires ability to pay. I’m still collecting unemployment (but probably not for much longer).
Chapter 7, though, looms large on my horizon.
67.
dcdl
I haven’t read all of the comments, but have some comments from my own personal experience with Wells Fargo. My husband and I went basically through the same thing for a year. We ended up not doing the loan modification. It ended up increasing our mortgage over $300. Not really helpful. We tried to do refinancing our loan, but can’t for a year. The bank says we missed a payment. We never have missed a payment. We are now renting our house out for a loss and renting a different house ourselves. During that time we also tried selling our house. Came close a couple of times, but the two offers we had the people ended up losing their jobs. We were trying to be proactive because his work cut his hours and he lost about a third of his income. Obviously there is a lot more to my story, but here is what I found out about loan modifications.
During the trial payment you in reality still owe the full mortgage payment. Every month you pay your trial amount which is less goes towards the previous months difference. Before you know it you are behind even when you think you are paying the agreed upon trial mortgage and on time. At some point you will get a preforeclosure letter saying you have missed payments. Eventually when and if the modification goes through you have to either accept it or not. If not then you owe all that money plus whatever fees and whatever else they tack on. My husband and I have been using our 401k to pay back the money.
Also during the process you will never ever get the same answer. I know this because my husband has called got an answer and then I’ve called right after asked the same exact question and got a complete different answer. Also, there will probably be input errors on the side of the bank and you won’t know about it. It took us about 2 months to figure out what happened to our modification, Wells Fargo got the gross and net backwards after inputting it correctly for a year.
I would recommend calling your representatives, calling the AG and seeing if there is a lawsuit against your bank, getting a lawyer who knows about modifications, and/or going to nonprofit housing organization. They have contacts that you won’t. My husband and I one wished we never did the modification. We are worse off now. Second, we wish that when we did the modification we went to nonprofit housing organization. They help people with modifications and their loans and such.
Good luck and I hope everything works out.
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WaterGirl
Does Kirk have an attorney?
TaMara (BHF)
And press coverage. I’m still in outrage mode after reading this and I read it about an hour ago.
If anyone can think of anything, I’ll do what I can to help.
freelancer
The Founders intended, that in the face of injustice larger than any individual, that Kirk could contact his Senator or Congressman, and Government by the People would never have let this happen in the first place, and Government for the People would right this wrong.
Our representation is no help here. Seriously. Those that know, point us in the right direction, please.
morzer
Would it help if an enraged mob burnt the local branch of BoA (the reptile bank) to the ground?
burnspbesq
Call Georgia PIRG at (404) 892-3405.
Call the local Legal Aid Society.
Go on the websites of the big Atlanta law firms (King & Spalding, Sutherland Asbill & Brennan, et al), find the name and telephone number of the pro bono coordinator, and call him or her. Or just call the main switchboard and ask to speak to the pro bono coordinator.
burnspbesq
@morzer:
That only works in France. And maybe Greece.
freelancer
Unbe-fucking-lievable. He adds:
I’m speechless. Literally speechless.
jwb
@burnspbesq: It hasn’t been tried here in a long time.
Politically Lost
When I first got admitted as an attorney two years ago I worked for a firm trying to do mortgage mods. Long story short, NONE of the serviceors acted in good faith. Some would grant mods but there was no rhyme or reason on how they would handle a case. Kirk’s story is just like 50 others I saw.
After the banks bought the California legislature and made it illegal to take payment on a loan mod up front it effectively killed attorneys trying to help people stay in their homes. Ostensibly, the law was designed to fight fly by night loan mod places from taking money from distressed home buyers and not helping them obtain mods. Their was some abuse of course because the same slugs that were in the loan business before were now offering help with loan mods at exorbitant rates.
My firm just won’t touch that shit anymore because you can’t get paid, the banks don’t ever deal in good faith, and when you sue for obvious fraud or violations of truth in lending, the banks hire huge national law firms and fight to the death.
Attorneys general of the states need to be empowered and act like special prosecutors and skull fuck those banks like the back alley whores that they are.
Stillwater
Deleted due to my inability to read comments.
Bnut
@Politically Lost:
+1
Violet
Could Kirk bring a lawsuit against BoA for being incompetent fuckwads and causing him to lose his house?
Martin
@freelancer: That’s quite common. The banks are totally, totally fucking up the loan modification program.
Banks are practically in the business of processing paperwork and they are so utterly fucking bad at it that they should have their corporate charters revoked.
But Kirk needs to get an attorney to get a judge to look at the fact that BofA is telling him two contradictory things.
TuiMel
You know, I have donated recently (what is for me) a lot of $$ to try to keep Republicans from re-taking the reigns of federal power. I would have much preferred that those resources had gone to help people like Kirk. The unspeakable amount of wealth that is being pissed away on elections – barring the gates or trying to bust them – simply depresses me at this moment.
mai naem
If there was an ambitious attorney general out there, they would pick some stuff like this and run with it. But they won’t because most pols are bought off or scared off.
And as far as suing BofA? These are the same fuckheads who have foreclosed on homes that had no mortgage. They’ve had sub contractors go to the wrong address. They’ve had keys changed illegally on houses that were not either theirs or were not yet in foreclosure.
BTW, these dickwads are the same ones who are setting up investment funds to buy property tax liens and making money off those. These are the dickheads that Obama is too scared of to go after.
morzer
@burnspbesq:
So cheese eating surrender monkeys and olive oil salesmen can do these things better than the US of A?
morzer
@mai naem:
How does Obama go after them when his own party won’t support him?
Just askin’.
Mayken
This shocks me not at all – angers and raises my blood pressure, yes, but surprises, no. BOFA is evil. Always has been, always will be. When my mother lay dying in hospice, they refused to accept the duly signed and notarized power of attorney because they hadn’t been the ones paid to notarize it. Never mind the only way that could have happened was if she came in to the bank. Did I mention she was dying in hospice? Thay couldn’t care less.
After she died we took the death cert and closed all of here accounts out and I told them point blank I’d never do business with them and would tell this story at every opportunity.
Fucking bastards! I hate BOFA with the fire of a thousand suns.
Martin
@TuiMel: I agree. Meg Whitman could have kept 1/4 of California’s 15,000 laid off teachers employed for what she’s personally dumped into her campaign.
Yutsano
@morzer: Short answer: yup.
Slightly longer answer: what pisses off folks in Georgia may not resonate at all in Oregon. We are a very large very diverse country that for all intents and purposes shouldn’t be as united as we are.
morzer
@Yutsano:
The appeal of French cheese, wine, culture, political activism, and great literature grows on me. Perhaps it is time to move to a country where the people still manage to fight for social justice once in a while.
nwithers
I’ll cross post this to Kirk’s site, but I’m interested in what other balloon-juicers think about this advice, and maybe it will dig somebody else out of a deep hole. INAL, but the advice seems pretty straight forward.
This is what I sent to my cousins in Florida about two years ago (written from memory) when they were about 2 weeks from being kicked out of their house. They lived about another rent-free about another 16 months before they decided
Step 1: Get a Lawyer
I mean it. You will be able to direct your lawyer to do things that will make the big banks cry in this day and age, they just want you to roll over and take it. Even if you are completely in the wrong (which I am doubting), It will be possible to drag things out for six months at the very minimum, and possibly for multiple years. Think of him as an IT professional, he can do the boring bits, but you need to direct him. Think a lawyer is too expensive? how much is your house worth? Don’t be cheap and let the bank rape you easy.
Another thing… If the bank says they want to do arbitration, and can’t force you to do it, tell them to spin on a one legged stool with no seat, the arbitration companies know which side of the bread for them is buttered, it’s a sucker move, don’t be a bank sucker.
Step 2: Document everything you send to your bank
If you haven’t been doing it already, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that you mail to your bank dealing with a loan needs to be sent certified mail. What does this mean? with certified mail you get proof of receipt of any mail that you have sent the bank. It is legal to send US documents of a classified nature marked “confidential”. Any document that the bank receives has to be signed by a member of the bank, and you get a copy of that signature. What this means, is that if the bank is stupid to say “we never got the mail”, you can prove that they were LYING.. in WRITING… to the judge. Judges don’t like that, judges REALLY don’t like that.
Step 3:
Tell your lawyer to make the bank produce the note to the house. No note, possession is 9/10th of the law. That scrap of paper is the magic that says who really owns the house, and who has sent paid thugs or bribed/defrauded police officers to seize said property. If the bank is giving you a runaround like “you are missing documents” they don’t have the note, you have temps handling you, MAKE THEM PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THE NOTE.
Step 4: (New trick for late 2010)
Point out to your lawyer that the banks have been caught engaging in a MASSIVE “fraud upon the court” (magic lawyer words there) across the entire country. If your lawyer can show that any of the documents that your bank has provided have been prepared by a “robo-signer”, It will be huge. INAL, but showing that notarized documents were illegally prepared in such a horrible fashion that it might cross the line into forgery would be a powerful weapon against the banks.
Step 5*:
Check these things with your lawyer first, always. A lawyer is a cross between an IT specialist and a priest. If a lawyer screws you for the bank and you can prove it (documentation is key here, keep those copies), you can visit a world of pain on them that makes losing your house look like a minor surgery.
You have attempted to act in good faith, the banks have probably acted in bad faith in such a fashion that can be proved in a court of law. Feed your anger in this, do not give into resignation, that is what the banks want.
By tying the banks up in the courts you will probably be able to live 6-12 months in your house in the worst case. If you want to go Gonzo, or are resigned to losing the house, stop paying your monthly payments immediately, and stash them in an account somewhere.
By doing this one of 3 things will happen in the end. #1 the court gives you the property free and clear due to massive fraud (not likely, but hey). You get 6-12 months of mortgage payments you have saved as money for whatever you want. #2 the bank figures they can cut a deal with you, and now you have 6-12 months of cash saved up as a bargaining chip for a starting lump sum. #3 Bank wins, but you have 6-12 months worth of mortgage cash to find an apt and use as a cushion for your ruined credit score (though that hurts less than you might think these days).
Martin
@mai naem: What do you expect Obama to do? Property law is pretty much exclusively at the state level. It really is up to the states to deal with that.
DOJ is investigating the lenders and banks, which is pretty much all Obama can do until Warren gets her operation going. I suppose Congress could do something, but they’re on break.
Did you have something specific in mind, or is this just more insistence that ‘something’ happen?
Mnemosyne
@mai naem:
Didn’t the big banks halt foreclosures in most states exactly because the attorneys general in those states are investigating them?
I know we all have a sense of urgency about this, but it’s not like nothing is being done and no one is investigating. State attorneys general have been investigating this since at least August, if not before.
The Raven
See also Massacio on why requiring the bank to produce the note is a useful thing to do.
&, as has been said above, get a lawyer.
cckids
This happened to us almost exactly a year ago. Our oldest son spent a combined 10 months of the years 2007-2009 in the hospital; I could no longer work even part-time; the economic meltdown dropped my spouse’s business income by 40%. We approached our lender for a modification–not even a drastic one, just a temporary lowering of payments/interest, for 3-5 years, to give us the time to recover. We followed the advice of our lender (Ocwen was servicing our loan), skipped one payment & the dominoes started to fall. We were positive that they’d go through with the modification–we weren’t asking for principal reduction (even tho, living in Vegas, boy, were we underwater). We hadn’t pulled tons of cash out of the house; we had some equity until the value dropped over 40%. Why, in FSM’s name, would they want ANOTHER run-of-the-mill house in Vegas?? (I mean, we loved it, but it was no mansion). There were 4-5 foreclosed houses in every block!!! Of course, the servicing agency could care less–they make more cash the longer the foreclosure process drags on & they don’t take the loss, as its not their paper.
But, of course, they wanted it. And took it. We stayed as long as we felt we could, but with the needs of our oldest son (wheelchair, vent, etc), we have some specific needs for housing, & needed some time to find a new place. Also, we’ve got 2 teenagers, the foreclosure & move was trauma enough without waiting for the sheriff to show up. We left on our terms, with a bit of a cushion saved up, since we stopped even trying to make payments when it became quite obvious what their game was.
Funnily, we’re now renting a house that’s much larger (great for the teens), better neighborhood, lower energy costs (newer, more efficient), for exactly the amount we wanted our mortgage reduced to. Our old house still sits empty, the nice yard & landscaping dead, one of 5 on that street. Hope they choke on it.
Ruckus
It has and always will be that the little guy has the shitty end of the stick. Now so more than in a long, long time. Probably more than most of our lifetimes. But you can play the game to a degree, you just need to know their rules and play by them. As burnspbesq and nwithers have pointed out there are usually ways to, if nothing else, slow the process to the point they may give up. It has to be more expensive to the bank than it’s worth. Right now that’s probably not as much as we can imagine. The banks, especially the big boys, are in a world of shit, of their own making. They are hoping to screw over enough of us to make up for the problems(money they are losing) they have caused. If enough people make it hard enough for them the whole house of cards will fall. We don’t need to burn down a bank. We don’t need to do anything except make the rules work for us as much as possible. Be as intractable as possible. It may work out for the best as nwithers said. Worse case you really aren’t any worse off than you were and it may get you down the road far enough to help.
Bottom line, banks don’t care about you, your house, your life, your spouse, your kids, your anything. It’s all about the money. Their Money. Make this more expensive for them than your neighbor does and you might score. If enough of the neighbors do that we might just have a ball game.
freelancer
OT – If I believed in God, I’d be praying to become this erudite. (via TBogg)
Damn.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
@WaterGirl:
Kirk should absolutely not be handling this without an attorney. Own lawyer, fool for client, etc. Trite, but true.
Please Kirk, get a lawyer and put him/her between you and the bank.
hamletta
I went to his place and sent him to NACA. They are great.
They formed from a union in Boston in the ’80s, and they do awesome, obnoxious union-thug stuff like get hundreds of people to picket the CEO of the latest predatory lender.
They’ve badgered most of the major lenders into dealing with them to help people keep their houses.
I’m staving off foreclosure myself, and I don’t know how they’ll work out for me personally, but I love their style. (The Web site is hideous, though.)
Xenos
America needs a lot less Tea Party and a lot more Daniel Shays. I would not be surprised to find the kids from these families being foreclosed are growing up to form our own version of the Red Brigades.
klondike
The only thing I can do for Kirk is to shoot back – i.e. demand the note, as he suggested. Go here.
sherifffruitfly
Have a really big party in the house.
Invite Motley Crue, Def Leppard, and Led Zepplin. The ones who are still alive, at any rate.
bkny
and the claims by banks that they’ve reviewed cases they’ve closed on and found 99.999% compliance are fucking lies. (i’m seeing these proclamations alot in the press.) the cook county sheriff who has ceased foreclosures there just for this reason noted they reviewed 350 foreclosure cases and 17 had the required documentation.
this guy’s a friggin hero:
Dart said his office reviewed 350 foreclosure cases and only 17 had complete paperwork to justify an eviction. The approximately 1,500 cases affected by Dart’s halt represent about a third of the foreclosure evictions his office handles each year, he said.
“I can’t possibly be expected to evict people from their homes when the banks themselves can’t say for sure everything was done properly,” Dart said in a statement today.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-19/chicago-area-sheriff-to-suspend-foreclosure-evictions-by-three-lenders.html
The Tim Channel
O/T – To my dog and cat loving friends here….
I just got news that one of the two dogs I rescued from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina has died. Roxie was found in the countryside next to the town of Roxie, MS (near Natchez). She was nearly starved to death, but with care and attention she rebounded. Sadly, I was not able to bring Roxie to Europe when I moved here (Pitbull issues) last year and has been in the care of my son back home.
She was put to sleep by our vet when her cancer became too much for her to bear. Her exact age is unknown, but she was with us for the last five years of her life. She will be missed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timtimes/1491186172/in/set-72157602271665534/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timtimes/2492191043/in/set-72157602271665534/
Enjoy.
El Cid
Really? Even the US government would lie to us and the billion dollar news media will reprint exactly what they tell them as though it’s true?
McClatchy DC on the Kabul-Taliban peace talks which we’ve been hearing about for at least a few weeks or more.
Once again, McClatchy commits the sin of actual journalism, where you go out and doublecheck what the government tells you, even when it has to do with war & stuff.
I don’t think, though, that an investigation like this is enough to stop pundits from talking about ‘the peace talks.’
geg6
My god, Kirk. You are being screwed and I feel for you and your family. I have no better advice than anyone here and urge you to demand the papers (bet they can’t produce) and get a lawyer.
I am still stunned that my John was able to get a modification a few months ago. Seems more of a miracle every day.
Michael
From a practical standpoint, I’m still puzzled over what BoA and the other big lenders think is going to happen as a consequence of them holding so much foreclosed inventory. That sure in shit isn’t going to prop up prices, and will wind up costing an assload of money for maintenance of the empty shells.
They never think – its all minute to minute to them. They’re costing themselves serious longterm money, and driving prices down in the process (empty houses aren’t as appealing to buyers – the absence of furniture seems to make it difficult for them to envision living there).
Something else that they haven’t considered – empty houses, even while maintained, still fall apart. I’ve never understood it, but have seen it time and again with estate properties. Major appliances and water heaters quit, toilets won’t flush, sinks won’t drain, doors quit fitting, windows balk on opening and closing. It is a very real effect – something about the continual use keeps things going.
El Cid
@geg6: I think he was saying that such demands for paperwork don’t seem to be making a difference.
Maybe we should start demanding that if banks take the house back, that we get our money back we’ve already paid in.
El Cid
TeaTards are such devotees of the Constitution that they’re willing to overthrow it.
Given the violent nature of these remarks, I demand that NPR apologize for no longer continuing to pay Juan Williams for commentary. I am not a bigot.
I also demand an investigation into those two guys who call themselves the New Black Panther Party.
Angry Black Lady
Kirk-
My firm handles BofA and JPMorgan foreclosure cases. California is a non-judicial foreclosure state. Google tells me that Georgia is both a judicial and non-judicial state.
I’m not sure how much help I could be, but I’m willing to try. There are partners who have a direct line to BofA.
If you want to drop me a line [email protected], please feel free and I’ll see what I can do.
I’m sorry. It sucks. I had to stop working those cases because I found them morally repugnant and was on the verge of quitting my job as a result before I got transferred to a different area of law.
I also have friends who work at Alston & Bird in Atlanta (I worked at the Cal. office for a year).
ABL
Michael
@sherifffruitfly:
Invite Amy Winehouse to homesit for a month.
La Caterina
Kirk, I’m a foreclosure attorney in a judicial state- I’ll second nwithers’ advice at #22. Assuming that you have equity in your house and you cannot rent as cheaply as you could own (at the modified mortgage payment) then I urge you to get an attorney. Finding a good one isn’t easy. Most of the foreclosure bar work at non-profits like I do- there are also lots of pro bono programs run by local bar associations. In these programs lawyers donate their time and are usually supervised by experienced foreclosure attorneys.
One caveat: forget the big or even medium firms- they won’t touch foreclosure defense against a major bank because of conflicts with their corporate overlords.
Most important for your case is to know what entity is trying to foreclose on you and whether they actually own your loan. First stop is your local county clerk to see what documents are recorded against your property. If you have a copy of the mortgage as recorded, and if a subsequent assignment of that mortgage is recorded, a good attorney can usually pick apart the assignment.
Go to the SEIU site linked above by Klondike and demand a copy of your note, as well. And good luck.
evap
Advice for everyone: Find a credit union and ditch your bank. I have access to a credit union through work and we do everything through them including our mortgage. Credit unions are non-profit!
Michael
@El Cid:
Thanks to a not liberal, lazy judiciary, that would be the very pickle he is in. And judges who self-describe as “conservative” are even worse.
My remaining time in this mortal coil is devoted to have people spit whenever they hear the word “conservative”. Part in disgust, part in a bid to ward off the evil.
Rosalita
@freelancer:
This happened to a friend of mine in Florida. Her husband lost his job. She called the bank right away — they told her nothing could be done until they stopped paying. Two years of misery because the bank refused to work with them at all. They are in a rental house now.
Beth
I work for Bank of America and I’m sorry Kirk is going through this. I left a comment on his blog for him to contact me. I may be able to help him.
Michael
@El Cid:
He’s undoubtedly one of those pukes who get weepy every time somebody sings “Proud to be ‘Murkan”, and when he sees a dirty faced white soldier having a smoke while off in a faraway place.
Of course, he’s never been in a uniform, but some ‘o them godless heathens in them other places need killin’ if we’re a gonna bring ’em the savin’ grace o’ Jeeeezus Chraaaahst, and ahr boys is a-gonna git ‘er done.
mikefromArlington
They’ve turned foreclosures into a money making scheme. Now that they can’t make billions off of the bubble expanding, they’ve decided to cash in on people.
WyldPirate
@Martin:
It seems like something like mail fraud would come into play if these documents crossed state lines.
Personally, I wish there were some we the RICO statutes could be applied to these banks. They are far more deserving of it than the mafia and other organized criminals ever were. Plus, that is what they have been engaged in–widespread, racketeering, corruption, fraud and theft on a global scale and on a scale unprecedented in human history.
The only fraudulent organizations that even come close to the criminality of these too-big-to-fail banks is the Catholic Church.
AhabTRuler
Isn’t it a moral hazard for the bankers to be able to profit without having to fulfill their basic professional obligation?
Legalize
Kirk has to get a lawyer. Even in non-judicial states, things can be done to kick BoA in the balls.
This cannot be overstated: BANKS DO NOT WANT TO DO LOAN MODS. Never trust them to do one.
This foreclosure mess is going to be the problem that defines the world economy for a generation or more.
Legalize
@Michael:
They think they’re gonna get bailed out again.
Walker
Unfortunately, this is why you should never try to deal with a bank without a lawyer.
Bullsmith
B of A is negotiating in bad faith, lying to their clients to trick them into losing their homes ASAP. Saying, for instance, that they have to go into default on their loan in order to qualify for a modification they’ll never get is nothing but abuse and fraud by the bank.
Nice financial system you got there.
AhabTRuler
@Walker:
Fixeteth.
merrinc
@Bullsmith:
Actually, this is quite common. I worked in the loss mitigation department for a private mortgage insurer for 11 years. If a borrower is making steady payments, he’s not seen as needing any help. When the loan goes delinquent, loss min efforts commence.
What BofA is doing to Kirk is unconscionable but also all too common. We recently closed on a short sale where they were the second lien holder and I was appalled at staggering incompetence evident in the approval letter they issued. None of this stuff is rocket science and with such high unemployment rates, I don’t understand why they can’t hire people whose IQs are at least slightly higher than room temperature.
MikeBoyScout
Contact City Life/Vida Urbana in Boston and learn how to replicate it in your area.
Others have mentioned a lawyer, but the story sounds as if you have yet to be treated reasonably, so you must learn to fight back using any and every tool you can muster.
You can’t let the prospect of shame in your condition to limit your field of action. You can win this. It won’t be easy. It will be difficult. But you CAN do it.
Kirk Spencer
Wow. Wake up one morning and discover there are people who give a crap and it’s an extraordinary feeling. Thank you all.
I’ll be responding to some of you off my blog, so general notes here.
re attorney – I’ve been working on getting one for about a week now. I kept being passed along to another recommendation. The major problem is that at two years of unemployment my savings are… let me make it simple. By the time I pay an attorney (at least what they tell me they’re going to charge me), I have to grab a chapter 7 bankruptcy as well. Ah well.
One thing I’d like to point out. A LOT of the foreclosures going on are because of unemployment, and mostly long-term unemployment. The slow economy and resulting cuts in pay or hours, even though it’s not unemployment, is what’s doing in many of the rest.
For those making general recommendations, please be aware that Georgia is what I call a greased skid state. Many laws are written to the significant advantage of the servicer. There are many reasons for that. As one example, Senator Isakson was a realtor. (Yes, I’ve dealt with his office, starting back in March. They sent me to another office, which sent me to another government office, which said they needed more than what I had to act.) Senator Chamblis’s office didn’t even return my (three) calls. Yeah.
Still, the outpouring of support has been invigorating, and there are some suggestions that might make a difference. For both, I thank you.
Bullsmith
@merrinc:
If you hire people who think for themselves, they will likely think you are asking them to do unconscionable things. When you totally abandon morality, it shrinks the pool of suitable labor somewhat. As you note, with the economy the way it is, if the help is incompetent I suspect it’s a feature, not a bug.
mslarry
below a scenario from a close friend who’s a relator. the upshot if your shit is w/B of A HIDE YOUR MONEY!!!
.
Can you believe these people? I’m w/Kirk and my friend, even if you are good standing get copies of your note. These people are EVIL!
Perry Como
This may be relevant to your interests. The banks are playing all sorts of foreclosure games and those banks may not even have the right to foreclose.
Svensker
So sorry this is happening to you, Kirk. My nephew is in a very similar situation. It’s just unbelievable.
Kirk Spencer
For what it’s worth, I keep pushing an overall solution — not for me (alone) but for the whole mess.
Let the banks declare a foreclosure holiday while they correctly record all notes at the respective counties. At the end of the period, all properly recorded notes are still secured by the properties. Any unrecorded see the notes get severed from the titles.
A delinquent borrower is going to face loss, regardless — either foreclosure or bankruptcy. Their house, even in states with strong homestead laws, will not be free. But only the lender and servicer who can demonstrate right to the property get the property.
This will restore trust. That’s not a small deal. Trust that the remaining notes are fully secure will make them more valuable. It will also restore trust that the foreclosed property will be clean. Frankly, banks need to restore trust or they’re going to be severely diminished down the road.
The single largest obstacle is the entanglement of federal and state laws on this issue. Bluntly, the federal government cannot tell the states to do this, and cannot interfere in the foreclosure itself. They can get involved in secondary pressure points, but not the central element.
That obstacle is really the main problem of the whole mess. The effects are national. The banks causing the problems are national. But the critical instruments are states issues. For this reason no solution will be perfect.
Maude
What about filing Chapter 13? Look into it. From what I have read, they can’t take the house if you do this. If this is so, file right away and let’s see what you do next.
Kirk Spencer
Maude,
Chapter 13 requires ability to pay. I’m still collecting unemployment (but probably not for much longer).
Chapter 7, though, looms large on my horizon.
dcdl
I haven’t read all of the comments, but have some comments from my own personal experience with Wells Fargo. My husband and I went basically through the same thing for a year. We ended up not doing the loan modification. It ended up increasing our mortgage over $300. Not really helpful. We tried to do refinancing our loan, but can’t for a year. The bank says we missed a payment. We never have missed a payment. We are now renting our house out for a loss and renting a different house ourselves. During that time we also tried selling our house. Came close a couple of times, but the two offers we had the people ended up losing their jobs. We were trying to be proactive because his work cut his hours and he lost about a third of his income. Obviously there is a lot more to my story, but here is what I found out about loan modifications.
During the trial payment you in reality still owe the full mortgage payment. Every month you pay your trial amount which is less goes towards the previous months difference. Before you know it you are behind even when you think you are paying the agreed upon trial mortgage and on time. At some point you will get a preforeclosure letter saying you have missed payments. Eventually when and if the modification goes through you have to either accept it or not. If not then you owe all that money plus whatever fees and whatever else they tack on. My husband and I have been using our 401k to pay back the money.
Also during the process you will never ever get the same answer. I know this because my husband has called got an answer and then I’ve called right after asked the same exact question and got a complete different answer. Also, there will probably be input errors on the side of the bank and you won’t know about it. It took us about 2 months to figure out what happened to our modification, Wells Fargo got the gross and net backwards after inputting it correctly for a year.
I would recommend calling your representatives, calling the AG and seeing if there is a lawsuit against your bank, getting a lawyer who knows about modifications, and/or going to nonprofit housing organization. They have contacts that you won’t. My husband and I one wished we never did the modification. We are worse off now. Second, we wish that when we did the modification we went to nonprofit housing organization. They help people with modifications and their loans and such.
Good luck and I hope everything works out.