Commentor from the Ginni-Thomas-leaves-Anita-Hill-a-voicemail thread, last night:
I may be wrong, but it occured to me that what the Thomases are really after (and make no mistake, it IS both of them) is a warning, not just to any potential trouble makers, but to everyone else. The teabaggers are coming for us. Clarence is one of the few black men that’s OK with them. He knows his place and does what he’s told. Ginny has her machinations and this is her declaring that when the Wingers take control, scores are going to be settled.
__
Remember that if there’s one thing they all believe, it’s that anyone with whom they disagree who has achieved any success in this world got what they have though underhanded deeds. They would never call the score settling the revenge that it is, they would call it justice. Whatever they tell us it is, whatever they tell themselves it may be, it is revenge, pure and simple.
__
The more I think about these people the more I am convinced that the only worse thing than them winning is them losing. With Sharron Angle’s 2nd Amendment remedies, this kind of goal-settling I’ve noted here, and the kinds of things we see in ad campaigns around the country, I expect there to be violence as we get closer to the election, and much more violence if they lose.
I can’t say I disagree with this, although I most sincerely hope the violence will be limited to a few sad souls being taken into custody before they can successfully undertake those “Second Amendment remedies”. There’s a recurring theme in American history where a period of economic stress weakens our joint political body to the point where various chronic low-level viral infections can start multiplying again. Racism, the hepatitis-C of American politics, conjunct with sexism, our variously virulent herpes, flourishes when times are hard. And their joint assault creates an opening for the ancient cancer virii of feudalism, aka “unrestricted capitalism”, the menace of a few rogue cells destroying the entire corpus in their mindless proliferating greed. This election is another one of the “crises” so common in romantic novels, where the once-blooming patient tosses, hallucinating, under the anxious eyes of the loved ones, halfway between death (or at least chronic invalidism) and recovery…
No wonder we’re all feeling feverish and sick of “news”. But we still have a remedy in our medicine chest — GOTV !
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Since this is an open thread, can someone please tell me this hump is losing?
TooManyJens
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hey, like TPM says, at least he disagrees with it.
::sigh::
RalfW
It does make sense that her call was of the “we know where you live (or work, anyway)” variety.
And as much as I think the TeaBaggers are nuts, I don’t think there will be more than sporadic violence.
In stead, it’s much more like the cartoon: the shadowy overlords are in this for realz. $100s of millions of dollars realz. And the vast majority of us will be the losers.
bobbo
In my darkest hours I absolutely agree with what the commenter says. However, most of the time I think this is a tad over-dramatic. It makes the common mistake of assuming that our enemies on the right are all-powerful, just waiting for their chance to strike. Kind of like “Karl Rove is an evil genius,” wherein every move by every Republican, no matter how lame it seems, is part of a master plan that will destroy all the good guys before we know what hit us.
Shorter me: Ginnie Thomas is a nutcase.
Gus
@TooManyJens: That’s an anti-abortion dogwhistle.
Bob L
It think it is bit deeper than that. The Right is having a midlife crises basically because they found out their magic ponies don’t exists. Doubtless they will try to have their revenge on who ever they imagine their tormentors are, but if they do it threw public office they will just look the the buffoons they are since their basic ideas are dumb.
Barb (formerly gex)
Meanwhile, I have only this to say to DougM, who isn’t a liar but who definitely can’t recognize the truth…
rob!
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I live in that district. And while Runyan is a complete idiot, John Adler (“D”) is such a horrible, horrible congressman that he’s practically begging people note to vote for him.
He voted against HCR, and sent Pelosi a letter saying the Bush Tax Cuts should not only be extended, but be expanded to include capital gains and other freebies to people in the upper brackets.
I honestly have no idea what I’m going to do come election day. I will never vote for a Republican–period–but after voting for Adler in 2008 (who ran on Obama’s coattails) I swore I’d never vote for him again, he’s been such a DINO.
Where’s Pat Paulsen when you need him?
Nellcote
Somewhere between GOTV and the Issa investigations, I sincerely hope the dems have a gaggle of lawyers in every state looking out for shenanigans at the polls. The teabaggers in Huston (per TPM) are already trying to intimidate early voters. This after the mysterious warehouse fire that destroyed all the voting machines. And you know they will challenge any result that even smells close.
Allan
@Nellcote: If you call Darrell Issa’s office (as I have), they get very huffy and defensive when you ask for specifics on Darrell’s investigation agenda.
Erik Vanderhoff
News flash: In order to avoid offending Americans who don’t like him anyways and are far too stupid to be able to tell the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim, Obama will instead offend the most powerful minority in the world’s largest democracy.
Okay, I’ll say it: Mr. President, that’s just fucking stupid.
Erik Vanderhoff
@TooManyJens: He only disagrees with it because it’s conservative code for Roe v. Wade. He’s saying that he’s anti-abortion without coming out and saying it.
Zandar
Oh I firmly expect some of these “patriots” to take to the streets, especially if they don’t “take back” both chambers of Congress.
I think people are going to get hurt, real fast either way however. Because if they do win, it will be that they feel confident their violent rhetoric is justified and they will feel that now that they are “in charge” they need to act on it.
You thought they hated liberals, Democrats, and Obama before the election? Wait until after.
cleek
doomsday predictions and dire warnings of evil afoot ? count me out.
Tom M
If you cast your mind back to the unrest in the 1930s, remember that those people were the powerless, not the powerful. The organization is there, the anger is there and the means are there.
If they do what you think, then it’s all just heat and light but….
Well, I’m getting armed.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Oh for fuck’s sake. I know we had this conversation pre-Presidential election. [Oooo! If Obama wins/McPOW doesn’t win there will be blood in the streets!]
Listen, I didn’t sit through eight years of BushCo screaming THEY WANT TO KILL US! to listen to people who hated that shit scream THEY WANT TO KILL US! ‘Cos this country really doesn’t need two groups of people slinking around all bug-eyed scared and paranoid.
If you’re really that worried, change your damn diapers and invest in the products of Messrs Smith & Wesson or Herr Glock.
Fuck.
Sentient Puddle
@Gus: If it was intended as a dog whistle, I would note that Bush handled it much more eloquently in his 2004 debate. Which is sort of an amusing thought.
lamh32
Damn ev’rybody clowning this fool now.
Elvira – I’m Not A Witch!
Jager
@Zandar:
This old, liberal US Army Ranger is going to be ready for the assholes if they attempt their “2nd Amendment remedy” I think I’ll put a sign in my yard:
Attention!! The liberal who lives in this house has qualified as “Expert” on the M-16, the M-60, the M-79 grenade launcher and various other US and foreign military weapons.
Exercise your 2nd Amendment Rights with extreme caution!
Cassidy
Flabby, white people running rampant on electric scooters doesn’t make a revolution. Slow moving targets, sure, but definately not revolutionaries.
They’ll hem and haw, but the truth is that republicans are too chickenshit to committ real violence.
Linda Featheringill
@rob!:
After my mother died, I started writing her name in on races where I didn’t like anybody. That feels good, like a memorial. And if you hear that Sally has won a race that she didn’t run for, you will know who to blame. :-)
j
It’s ALWAYS about revenge with these Goopers. The despicable Henry Hyde even admitted on air that “Clinton’s impeachment was payback for Watergate”.
http://rawstory.com/exclusives/byrne/clinton_impeachment_hyde_abc_yanks_422.htm
Hyde quote in this link:
http://bizblogger.blogspot.com/2005/04/hyde-on-clintons-impeachment.html
The GOP is nothing but a bunch of whiny bitter little jerks. Wait to see what will happen to Obama if those hyenas get the House!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jager: M-79? How old are you?
Lavocat
Fuck them. Let them play their mindless mind games.
I’m a liberal with some weaponry and I know how to use it ALL. Thank you, U.S. Army! So are MANY of my liberal friends.
Fuck with me will ya?
Bring it!
Liberals need to go bare knuckle and the sooner the better.
Jager
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ancient warrior, from the era between sticks and stones and drones
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Cassidy: Aaah! They’re throwing orthopedic shoes and insulin needles!
Jager
@Cassidy:
Rock salt in the ass of a scooter driver (medicare paid for) from 100 meters or so might send them home to rethink their political positions. I think just the sound of a pump shotgun being cocked would send most of the “militia men” in a pants pissing retreat, throwing their weapons as they run.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jager: After the brown shoe army, but before woodland camo BDUs?
Cassidy
@Jager: I’d start with paintballs. Ammo is expensive.
Linda Featheringill
Regarding violence surrounding the election:
A lot of these folks appear to believe that they will have all the power they need after the election, when they completely destroy the Democratic Party. They seem to be looking forward to dishing out a lot of humiliation to liberals and other monsters.
Electoral disappointment can be very painful. If the Republicans are faced with this pain, some of them will have a hard time dealing with it. I have no idea what they will do.
Omnes Omnibus
@Linda Featheringill: I am guessing that is will be more like a few bar fights and some scuffles at events for the most part. There are always going to be a few loonies who go off the deep end, but I don’t think there will be too many. I have no evidence, no citations; it’s just my sunny outlook on life.
Jager
@Omnes Omnibus:
Roger that, trooper! I was caught in the cross fire between spit shined boots and fluff and buff. I think the permanent press dress shirts and the patent leather low quarters look like shit along with the clip on ties. And another thing…I have a great deal of nostalgia for faded fatigues and worn, but shiny jump boots, but that’s just me! Glad they upgraded the field gear, losing the WW2 era web gear is a good thing!
trollhattan
Please don’t shoot me or nuffin’ but I liked MoDo today.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1010/10102021sitenews.asp
Okay, fire away.
quaint irene
And the most obvious thing is, these people are just cowards. There’s no other way to label them. Ginnie Thomas calling Hill 7:30 on a Saturday morning, to make sure she wouldn’t have to actually speak to her. The whole host of Tea Party candidates who run from reporter’s questions, the normal debates and basically, any light shone too brightly on them.
Then go on Fox News to be enveloped in little valentine’s with Hannity or Carlson.
It just amazes me that these are the same noodnicks who claim they’re so tough, so rough to be able to stand up to….well, anything ‘cept an honest question.
Cassidy
@kommrade reproductive vigor: Hey! Those needles might have some blood on them. That’s dangerous, you know.
Omnes Omnibus
@quaint irene: I have always thought that they were, at bottom, cowards. Look at the response to 9/11. Look at the reaction to anything different or difficult. Look at the macho preening as cover. It is obvious.
RalfW
@quaint irene: Word!
When the wingnuts screech “man up,” it’s projection.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Same thing they’ve always done: Grumble, gripe, come up with conspiracy theories and … Blame the RINOs who weren’t conservative enough! Yeah there may be some random jackass who fires a gun somewhere, but I live in the DC Metro area so anything less than incoming ICBMs is hard to get upset about.
@Cassidy: And those shoes weigh a TON.
soonergrunt
I’ll thank Anne Laurie for putting something I said up on the front page, and I’ll revise and extend.
No, I do not believe that there is any kind of organized plan to do anything on a large scale. There is no new CSA waiting in the wings as far as I know. But I do know that there ARE in fact people who continue to stockpile arms and ammunition and speak openly of “making sure that the right people win” and other such. Some of these people are my neighbors. For some reason, people round these parts think ‘veteran’ conflates with ‘conservative’.
And while Oklahoma isn’t quite as bad as some other states, it’s only one state with fewer people than any of the top 15 US metro areas.
The political candidates here on both sides constantly harp about Obamacare and SOC I AL ISM!
The vast majority of these people will NOT raise arms over an election. Still more of them will stop at the last moment, for whatever reason. Most people truly love the country, whether they like the President or not, and most of them know that he’s trying to do the right thing for the country as he sees it.
But about 12.5 miles from where I’m sitting is a monument to the damage that two men can do. They hated a Democratic President too.
Nellcote
Dana Millbank joins the reality based:
A Tea Party of populist posers
Xecky Gilchrist
the more I am convinced that the only worse thing than them winning is them losing.
Pardon me, but horseshit. Their winning would be worse. I think soonergrunt @ 38 is right and we’d see a few sporadic acts of violence if they lose. If they win, their craziness becomes institutionalized, and not the way it should be.
soonergrunt
@Xecky Gilchrist: I am the commentator that Anne Laurie quoted. And while I don’t want the whackjobs running the government, I think they’re going to be mighty pissed if they don’t, and that is going to lead to some bad scenes.
It’s not easy to say what you have to say without running on and on and on. Sometimes you end up leaving out a part of a sentence that can change the whole meaning, real or perceived, of what you were saying.
Perhaps a better way to phrase that would have been:
the more I am convinced that the only worse thing on a local level than them winning is them losing.
kommrade reproductive vigor
In the early/mid-60’s my mom and a lot of her friends took survival courses because they were CONVINCED the white folks were going to rise up and stamp them out. My mom is NOT a fan of the great outdoors. But she was scared enough at the time to spend weekends crawling around in the woods with a rifle. Obviously the great darky hunt failed to happen.
So let them take OK? Fine, we’ll send the rest of these assholes out there. C.O.D.
debbie
I can see it now: Fleets of Medicare motor scooters taking to the street, dragging their Medicare oxygen tanks behind them. Putt, putt, putt.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@debbie: You laugh now, but just wait until they form a giant TeaTard Transformer!
rikyrah
they think somebody’s playing with them.
I’m going to tell you, right here, right now, that I AM NOT PLAYING WITH THEM.
people need to stop pretending about these mofos.
like they have any sanity.
it’s them or it’s us and I choose US.
I have no qualms about choosing us.
and, I wish one of those mofos would get in my face about ANYTHING.
Clarence Thomas with his buckdancing cooning ass can burn in hell for all I care.
Folks gotta buckle up. This shit is like Reconstruction where the violent White folks intimidated the rest of the supposed ‘ good’ White folk, and my ancestors wound up in pseudo-slavery for damn near another 100 years.
I will say this in closing:
Turn the other cheek died April 4, 1968.
PERIOD.
quaint irene
And I for one, welcome our new Motor Scooter Overlords!
The Institute For A Meaningful Apocalypse
Don’t worry your pretty little heads. We got this.
soonergrunt
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
Except, umm, well, there’s that whole other incident perpetrated by two men.
Because two guys with a half-assed sharpshooter rig and an old Chevy is just like an ICBM.
Maybe you hid in a bunker or something and that was how it was the same. The rest of the nation was treated to virtual nightly stories about how the city was living in oppressive terror for two and half months.
Cathie from Canada
Annie, just an off-topic comment, but had to tell you that I love your writing.
Chris
I’ve been thinking about that line for a bit, and I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s no fucking difference: they’re going to be the biggest assholes they can if they win, and they’re going to be the biggest assholes they can if they lose. We have years of evidence for each of those eventualities.
Also, I’m not interested in trying to figure out what would be more likely to piss them off more, because once you start arguing with a Sicilian or playing War Games or trying to figure out who
OsamaRove wants to win anything, you’re already giving them too much power.J sub D
Gimme a P
Gimme an A
Gimme an R
Gimme another A
Gimme an N
Gimme an O
Gimme an I
Gimme one more A.
What’s that spell?
Yeah, you Democrats somehow remained safe with Bushitler in the Oval office and GOP majorities in both houses but this time the show trials and Gulags are coming for sure,
Criminy. Get off the sauce and out of the fiction section.
DonkeyKong
The election in the long run doesnt really matter to the redstate state of mind.
They will continue to be ground into mulch by their God, the “invisible hand” of the market that is now clenched into a fist and curse those who want to help.
As far as the rest of us, take Lincolns opinion of Grant to heart for the long haul.
Let’s do our best GOTV!
soonergrunt
@J sub D: Well, the republicans and the militias (but I repeat myself) had the power during the Bush admin with majorities. They had the power, which is all they’ve ever really been after.
But now they don’t and so militia membership is on the rise, and acts of political violence are as well. It’s what you guys do when you lose elections. The far wing of your movement wigs out and starts killing people.
That is precisely what will happen (just like last time) when, two years into the Clinton admin, the repubs took control of the house and senate. It will be even worse if you fail to take control of one or both houses because historically, that’s how you roll. It’s how ‘conservatives’ have always rolled. Democracy and the Republic are only words with no value to you unless you’re in charge. That’s from the History section.
Jrod the Cookie Thief
@J sub D:
Oh, sure, we all came out of that unscathed.
And, you know, it’s not like the GOP impeached the last Democratic President over ridiculous bullshit or anything…
J sub D
@soonergrunt: How many Depends® do you go through in a day?
The GOP is going to increase its numbers in both houses, the Senate Majority Leader is in a close race with a nutcase, Dem House candidates are running against Pelosi and the presidents favorability ratings are in the shitter. Get over it. The constant bitching and handwringing about the unfairness of the opposition is not an admirable trait in either the left or the right. And you’re both guilty as hell of it.
Now be all grown up about this and do your best to stop the inevitable excesses of the GOP.
Uloborus
I really, really think you guys are getting too worked up over this, too. The threats and exhortations to revolution and violence you hear are precisely because these people are cowards with a bully mentality. This is nothing more than what happened during the Clinton presidency, except it’s being gleefully broadcast now.
Some militia trouble, maybe (god forbid) a domestic terrorism incident as big as the Oklahoma City Bombing, but while those are awful things they’re not large-scale violence. What will happen if they don’t get the win they want? First, they will, because they could lose 20 seats in both houses and think they’d won. It’s how they operate. Second, they’ll… bitch and whine and make more threats. Just like they do now. They’ll let you know that ANY MINUTE NOW they’re going to rise up and kill every liberal in the country. They’re just waiting for everybody else to do it first.
Xecky Gilchrist
@soonergrunt: Pardon, didn’t mean to be rude. I see where you’re coming from, but we just can’t have these folks taking over the government.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@soonergrunt:
Most of the Maryland shootings were less than a ten minute drive from my house. The one at the car dealership was less than a five minute walk from where I worked at the time. And still, I got up, went to work via public transportation (which required standing at a bus stop on a not very busy road) every damn day those assholes were running around. What was a “virtually nightly” report on the news for you was just another day for me.
Now do you begin to understand why all of your LOOK OUT SCARY MEN shit leaves me a just a tad under impressed?
Oh, for added fun, all of the reports had them in a white panel van or box truck. Do you know how many vehicles of that description are in this area? By rough estimate I’d say a fuckload x a shit ton x eleventy million. There was no way to avoid them, much less see them all. So, we all had to learn to not give a fuck.
[Edit: I should say it was just another day for me and all of the other people in the area who went to work, shopping, out for drinks &c, &c every single day. I can’t answer for what the assholes on the nightly news were telling you.]
cs
I’m personally not too worried, though I think it would be silly to completely ignore the possibility.
Those on the right that spout off about armed rebellion are generally 30+ with the majority 50+, which also matches the age of those following. Not many younger people are involved. In past revolutions and rebellions, the leadership is generally middle-aged or older, but you need a strong number of young followers as well to provide the cannon fodder.
The 40 yr old guy, who likes to play in the mud on weekends while wearing his militia uniform, isn’t going to join the revolution when it means he’ll lose his job, will lose his house, and has a strong chance of losing his life. Even in countries where the government is truly repressive and life is hard, the middle class generally doesn’t make the decision to rebel unless it’s clear they’re going to lose everything anyways and therefore have nothing to lose and everything to gain by fighting. A return to Clinton-era tax rates and a forced enrollment into health insurance isn’t going to force this sort of existential decision.
What an armed movement needs are young, idealistic followers who are inexperienced and naive enough to believe the rhetoric from the would-be revolutionaries. and decide being a guerilla is better than showing up for their job at McDonalds. A movement needs cannon fodder. The boys (and occasionally girls) who will gleefully accept suicide missions. They don’t have families, don’t have careers yet and feel like they have nothing to lose.
Fortunately, the tea party is woefully short of this demographic. One lone crazy guy might flip out at the election results and shoot up an IRS office or a Unitarian church. Someone might even rig up a truck bomb in a Midwestern city. But odds are strongly against any real movement.
soonergrunt
Depends, huh?
As typical as it is stupid. By what leap of illogic do you associate my concern about the inevitable whackaloon actions that will destroy quite a bit of property and possibly kill a few Americans with a concern for personal safety?
I’m about the last person somebody bent on mayhem is going to want to run into. I’m pretty sure that I can handle anything that might come up since infantry tours in Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t get me killed.
soonergrunt
@cs:
I never said the movement would actually go anywhere or accomplish anything impressive. I said they would kill some people.
Kate in AZ
Making calls for Democrats here in Southern Arizona a week ago..registered Dems and some Independents. Doing my spiel for Giffords, Goddard, etc to an Independen, t who then proceeded to go completely ballistic- “there’s a Civil War coming”, Obama this, Socialist that, blah, blah…he concluded his rant with “and I’ll go to Washington with my gun if I have to, I will…”. I rang off with a pleasant “So I guess I’m not going to get you to vote Democratic; have a nice day”. This is scary shit…my husband told me I should have called the Secret Service on the asshole. There’s a lot of nutty folks out there, alas.
xian
I can’t wait for the Tea Party tell-alls by future David Brocks.