Perhaps my give-a-shitter is irreparably damaged, but I can’t manage much enthusiasm for a MoveOn.org petition drive to put NPR in Helen Thomas’ old seat in the White House briefing room. As far as I’m concerned, they can put a well-trained circus dog, a wax replica of the corpse of Chester A. Arthur, or a small bag of human feces in that chair, and it would make as much difference as putting NPR there. Why pick a battle that draws attention to one of the most self-important institutions in Washington?
Note: The “self-important institution” that I’m talking about is the White House Press Corpse, not NPR.
debit
I vote for the small bag of feces.
Omnes Omnibus
@debit: Circus dog; you get the dog and, if you wait long enough, you get the feces as well. Twofer.
lawguy
OK, I’m in. I’ve always wondered why these people get so much respect from so little work. Read the newspapers and ask questions. Oh yeah, if you are really a work horse get to know people with the free 12 hours a day and then ask them questions on the phone while you aren’t in the press room.
SiubhanDuinne
But speaking of media, and Washington, and all: What wondrous epiphany has Dana Milbank undergone? Moar of this, please:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/30/AR2010073003254.html
MattF
How about a bag of feces on every chair? Would anyone notice the change?
EDIT: I can see that I’m being unfair here to bags of feces. How about “sacks of shit”?
Keith G
I dissagree, fwiw.
I know its popular and satisfying to be critical of them. Yes, NPR employs hacks, but there are also have been solid professionals in their ranks. The network under performs, but less so than others.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
In the same way that some people are arguing that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, would you argue that there is no difference between NPR and Fox when it comes to sitting someone in that seat?
Schad
@SiubhanDuinne:
Judging by the date of that article, he’s been to the future and found it wanting.
4tehlulz
Excuse me, that’s Chester Fucking Arthur to us mortals.
debit
@Keith G: Okay, how about this; let’s substitute Cokie Robert’s sagely nodding giant head for the bag of feces.
Sorry. I tried, I really tried to get past my NPR anger, but I can’t. Now I’ve decided to embrace it.
SiubhanDuinne
I’ve never actually understood why assigned/reserved seating was such a big deal anyhow. It seems very grade school, with a little seating chart and everything. Why not rotate the reporters or just let them be seated on a first-come first-served basis?
Or a round of musical chairs as an unannounced event every few days. That could be very amusing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): How about making it a seat for independent news outlets and having them rotate through it on a weekly basis?
El Tiburon
Put Jerry springer in there. Who gives a shit really.
Alwhite
I agree with MattF’s note – how would you know if they put a bag of feces on yet another chair?
This is, I assume, a fund raising gimmick – not unlike the nutbags saying ‘Obama will take your guns, kill granny, force you to gay marry an immigrant – – UNLESS you send us lots o money
debit
@El Tiburon: Actually, Jerry Springer would probably do a better job of asking relevant questions than most of the reporters in there. There was a radio program a few years back that featured his exploration of a run for the senate (dunno if it was state or US) and he’s a solid progressive who speaks well to the issues. However, he decided he couldn’t get past his showbiz persona and it never went anywhere.
SiubhanDuinne
@Schad #8: Naah, he’s just really *really* good at staying on top of deadlines.
Buzzybill
Siubhan has found the answer. Give them assigned seats, but move them around the room randomly every day. Then just open the doors three minutes before you start taking questions.
Then we get a room full of “important professional journalists” that are shuffling through their notes and fixing their hair when the cameras come on.
High Comedy at a low, low price.
Frank
NPR was one of the organizations that refused to use the word torture to describe waterboarding. To me, NPR is not much different than CBS, ABC etc. And they appeared to be as much of a cheerleader in 2003 for Bush’s war in Iraq as all the other news networks.
Based on the current pathetic media in this country (including NPR), it truly makes no difference who sits in that chair.
Maude
Why don’t we set up the seats for them to play Musical Chairs? We pick the tunes and choose when to stop. Makes as much sense as the system they have now.
patrick
“Why pick a battle….?”
Because Fox is the other option and they were picking a battle for that chair while Helen was still in there. You are dealing with an opposition that fights for everything, from Thomas’ chair to denying health care for 9/11 workers to denying unemployment benefits, or refusing to approve federal judges. At some point we may want to stop saying we can lose one more because NPR isn’t good enough, or the bill isn’t strong enough, or whatever.
And not to be angry or irrational, but right now sentiments like “Why pick a battle” with the conservative agenda whether a large or small battle or with fox or any of the ugly right’s other manifestations seems like one more battle lost because its unpleasant to engage. We are in a fight.
Bill E Pilgrim
@debit:
Yeah that happens. I read that John Boehner thought about becoming a songwriter, but when he tried to write a new national anthem, he couldn’t get past the first few bars.
mistermix
@patrick:
No, Bloomberg also wants the seat. RTFA
MikeJ
@patrick: If NPR were on our side we could pick a battle that helped them. They aren’t. Fuck the Nice Polite Republicans.
Keith G
@patrick: Because not picking a battle and/or waiting passively for a perfect purity pony is what serious progressives do.
MikeJ
@Keith G: But why are we supposed to fight for NPR? At best the most they ever do is their job. They aren’t any different from any other member of the Washington circle jerk.
This isn’t about purity. They aren’t us. They aren’t supposed to be pure liberals.
Catsmeat
Let Fox “News” have it. Then, make it a point to never call on them. I seem to remember Helen Thomas getting snubbed for about eight years. Maybe it’s just my give-a-shitter acting up, too. Also.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Keith G: BTW, I may be wrong about this in both directions, but if you’re thinking the “self-important institution” was referring to NPR, I think he meant the White House Press Corps.
Not that it wasn’t dissing NPR anyway by saying that it wouldn’t make a difference.
That’s sort of how I feel. NPR isn’t the worst out there, but sometimes I think they might as well be. In 2008 a panicked friend would write to me saying “My god, even NPR seems certain that McCain is going to win!” I would reply “even”? It’s taken on the “Even TNR” status to me pretty much now, or worse actually sometimes.
I do agree that they’re professional, they’re just also almost entirely giving a Republican perspective right from Broderland.
And yes, they’re not as bad as FOX.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne:
Seating should be chosen by random drawing, and it changes every day/week/month, whatever. And EVERY reporter from ANY news organization, even if they’re in DC visiting from another part of the country, should be eligible to put their name in the hat for a chance to get in the room.
Assigned seating, jockeying for the front row and so forth are bad for all of us. We get less information from these toadying members of the press. I’d much rather it be filled with local reporters who would ask real questions.
MikeJ
If you want the seat to go to a top notch news org, why not McClatchy or Christian Science Monitor?
Keith G
@MikeJ: I feel that as a news organization they are different – definitely not perfect, though. “They are all the same” sure seems like a great way to invite defeatism.
The “fight” is more a rhetorical segue from the previous comment.
jwb
Surely, Move On recognizes that by backing NPR in this race that they’ve ensured that it will be someone else. Maybe they are playing a bit of 11th-dimensional chess of their own, figuring the administration won’t reward Fox, which then opens the possibility that the seat will go elsewhere?
J
I take Patrick’s point, but did anyone else notice this? Well into the Sherrod affair when it was clear to all the world what had happened, I think I heard NPR reporting the charge against her and saying that she denied it, rather than saying it was false. I hope I’m wrong about this.
cat48
@jwb:
The Admin doesn’t assign seats. The Whitehouse Correspondent’s organization does that.
Frank
@J:
As I recall, CNN was the first organization that actually did some actual investigative journalism on this issue.
By the way, back in 2008 when FoxNews had a piece claiming that Obama had gone to some extreme muslim school in Indonesia as a child, CNN was also the first organization that actually did some real investigative journalism and debunked the claim.
CNN is not perfect to say the least. But I don’t get the fighting for NPR for this seat. At least not when considering their pathetic performance by parroting Bush White House talking points between 2003 and 2008. I rather have Bloomberg.
patrick
@mistermix: You didn’t write to fight for Bloomberg because that would be a better choice, you wrote why pick a battle at all. RYOFA.
The other option is still going to be fox.
malraux
I’m gonna go with the minority position on this. It’s not that I don’t care about NPR, though my caring is pretty limited, it’s that the WHPC is worthless as an institution. This is shuffling the deckchairs on the titanic.
KCinDC
When was the last time anything significant happened at a White House press conference? As far as I can see, the White House could just post press releases on its website, and we wouldn’t miss anything except the idiotic questions, which aren’t exactly value added. The only “news” from press conference questions seems to be brouhahas about meaningless gaffes.
jwb
@cat48: ok, my bad—reacting without reading and all that. But if it’s the Correspondent’s organization that does the assigning, then the Move On petition will certainly only ensure that NPR won’t be chosen, and you hope Move On recognizes that.
Libby
I’m in the camp that doesn’t see the point of the briefings at all. The more of them I watch, the more annoyed I get about it. The front row is the worst. They hog all the Qs and they rarely ask a meaningful Q. Second row not much better. The good Qs tend to come from the back rows, and they hardly get called on.
I actually don’t get the point of the WHPC at all these days, following the Prez around. It seems to me the only point is they get to brag on twitter about what exotic trip they get to take because they are very important journalists.
All the being said, somebody pointed out on twitter that if NPR gets it, the reporter that’s likely to get the seat also works for Fox. Forget her name. I stopped listening to them several years ago when they started pitching the GOP narrative.
KCinDC
@Libby, you must be thinking of Mara Liasson, but it looks like she hasn’t been NPR’s White House correspondent since the Clinton administration. They seem to have a few WH correspondents nowadays: Ari Shapiro, Don Gonyea, Scott Horsley.
mistermix
@patrick: Sorry, I didn’t realize that facts changed depending on what I wrote. Clearly, because I don’t give a shit about who sits in that chair, the fact that Bloomberg, Fox and NPR are the three organizations who want that seat is no longer a fact.
I guess you’re one of the special, privileged commenters here who gets to make up your own facts. Thanks for setting me straight. OBTW, RTFA
Libby
@KCinDC: Yeah, that’s the name I saw floated. Good to know she’s not the WH correspondent anymore.
IN any event, I’d like to see it go to an independent news org, and the rotation idea is good because there’s so many of them. I’d also note that Ed Henry at CNN is the president of the association now. Seems to me that if people want to lobby for a certain change, he’s the one to blitz with emails and/or tweets (@EdHenryCNN) rather than join into the Moveon thing. Thinking the mass email thing is pretty much ignored and personal email would be more effective.
Bill H
How about a bag of shit in Chuck Todd’s seat. Wait a minute, there already is a bag of shit in Chuck Todd’s seat.
jeff
You know, I went on MoveOn’s site the day of the War Supp vote and not a peep. There was info on wikileaks, breitbart, moveon’s 10 year anniv etc. But not an iota of information for how and why people should oppose the long war. I think this is suggestive of how things change in a friendly administration. If this was the Bush admin., and we know what we do now about AfPak, it would be their banner issue – whether any readers here think it is a “righteous” war or not (many democrats still thought Iraq was salvageable in the oughts.
So, the big problems we need to move onto, are allowing torture denying NPR liberalism a seat in the prescripted WH instead of the AfPak War. That’s a problem.
Fleas correct the era
Differences between NPR and Fox? Well, NPR gasbags who play faux liberals on Fox are sometimes ID’d as working for NPR when they’re working their Fox gigs, but afaicr they’re never identified as Fox News shills on NPR. So there’s one for ya.
Absolutely. Listen to recordings of Daniel Schorr when he was in his late 60s, he was pretty sharp back then.
These days?
Nope, I’m pretty sure that’s what you heard on NPR, because that’s what I heard on NPR. “Sherrod says this was taken out of context” was their line. This was well after Vilsack had apologized and offered her a new job.
I’d vote Wax Replica, but whatever.
Alien-Radio
Give the seat to Rolling Stone, they actually would use it.
ally
I’d be surprised if those Nice Polite Republicans really WANT MoveOn’s support. They’re probably frightened that this will tar them with the librul stigma.
If MoveOn is just doing this to torment NPR, that could be amusing. But I doubt they have that much capacity for irony.
Keith G
@Fleas correct the era: Yep that’s right. Because there *have* been clunkers, the good work of Anne Garrels, Ari Shapiro and many others never happened and will never happen again.
That sounds like those who claimed that Obama was a failed president after he bailed on the public option.
Phoebe
To the extent that I care at all about this, I resent being asked to care. It doesn’t matter who sits in a stupid chair. IF anything matters at all in this charade, it’s who gets called on, which has nothing to do with the chair.
What this really is about is another “ooh! FOX vs. NPR! Culture war smackdown! Pick a side! Puff up your chest! Paint your face! Boo-yah!” MoveOn is just another huckster yanking your chain.
J sub D
Who gets to report the admionistration spin and ask questions that won’t be answered if they’re substantial?
This is almost as important as which local reporter gets to reiterate the police spokesman’s claptrap.
And who the hell ever gave a crap about Helen Thomas? The following is an all inclusive list of her important jounalism credits
.
.
.
Yep. that’s about it, for Helen and all the other lickspittles in the White House briefing room.
PTirebiter
@Frank: I’m with you. It was the NPR pitch specifically that made me yawn and delete the email I got from move-on.
I’ve supported NPR for over thirty years, but lately I’ve actually felt more hostility toward NPR than most of the others. The soft prejudice of high expectations?
leo
@mistermix: There’s no reason to legitimize Fox Newz in this way.
If you can’t understand this, that’s your problem.
gnomedad
Hell, give Rush or Beck the seat. Let them makes asses of themselves in an environment they don’t utterly control.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Libby:
The only remaining value I can see in the WHPC comes into play when the President travels to other parts of the country to do townhall meetings, etc. and they have to go on the road to cover these events – which is to drag these primadonnas out to where they have a chance to see what is like to live outside the bubble of power and influence and perks in DC. Not that they take any notice of it whatsoever, but hey, at least we tried – horse, water, etc.
Which may explain why increasingly the WHPC don’t even bother with these non-DC events.
OK, fine. Just shoot them now.
J
@Fleas correct the era: A sad thanks. I’m depressed to have my impression confirmed, but not surprised.
patrick
@mistermix: I was not responding to the original article, I was responding to your take on the original article. This seems to be a little hard for you to understand, but everyone else here seems to get it.
You don’t think its worth picking a fight, fine. Stop being a jerk.
60th Street
Wake me when they put an Amy Goodman in the front row…until then…that whole body is overrun by clowns, who, by nature, have no interest in serious questions…not worth anyone’s time
eemom
@SiubhanDuinne:
Milbank is inconsistent. Sometimes his commentary is spot on, devastating and funny. More often he’s just another smug, overfed Washington hack.
K. Grant
I vote for Al Jazeera to get the seat. Talk about wingnut’s heads exploding.
Helen Thomas
When they came for my chair, you said nothing…
angler
Chet never got his due. His wax replica deserves the chair.
Libby
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: That’s the thing about the WHPC. They follow Obama to Hawaii and report on what flavor shaved ice he’s eating. They follow him to his golf games and report on the temperature and how long he stays on the golf course. They pitch a fit because he sneaks off to watch his daughter play soccer without them. So they can report, he’s watching his daughter play soccer. Guess they hope he drops the f bomb or something if she misses a goal.
It’s all about trying to entrap the White House into some meaningless verbal gaffe that they can gin up into a three+ day kerfluffle. But I guess to be fair they are delivering what the public apparently wants. IIRC, when WaPo broke their intelligence investigation piece, the most clicked on story of the day was “Palin said something stupid on FB.” It’s not about news in the media anymore, it’s about ratings. They’re going to chase the stories that get the clicks. Damned depressing.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Libby:
OK, I’m going to try to put on my optimist’s hat for a moment and look at the half-full glass in this situation.
Maybe stats like that reflect that the general population isn’t as stupid as we think. They’ve figured out that there is no real news in the conventional “news”, so they just tune it out – like the population in the USSR not bothering to read Pravda. You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Nor do you need CNN, NPR, the WaPo, the NYT, etc, to tell you that the economy blows dead goats, we are still stuck in two pointless dead-end wars, and the only lasting positive achievement of the GWOT has been to build yet another ginormous resource-sucking bureaucracy in DC, which has metastasized into the private sector, etc., etc.
People don’t need the so-called “news media” to tell them these things. All they need to do is look at their paystubs (if they have one), pay a visit to the local airport (or any other place where security theater is in play), and listen to the stories of friends and relatives who all know somebody who is deployed overseas, seemingly with no end in sight.
Maybe trivia dominates over substance in the traffic viewing patterns of our news media because most people have already figured out that there is nothing else of value to go looking for in what the media has to offer, that they don’t already know from personal experience.
Pamela F
@debit:
While I think that MoveOn could find many more vastly important issues to rally folks, I think it’s a mistake to concede NPR to the wingers without a fight. There is much on NPR worth fighting for and if we don’t turn a cold shoulder in a huff, we just might block the wingers from a total takeover of another MSM media outlet.
Nick
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
the media’s goal is to tell the people why such things are happening and what’s being done about them.
For example. The economy sucks. People turn on the TV, they want to hear 1.) why 2.) what’s being done…and instead, they’re clicking on Sarah Palin.
As bad as the media is, the people are just as bad or worse in that they don’t want to know what the solutions are that are being proposed, and you have to wonder. If people aren’t inerested in hearing what solutions their President has, and are more interested in seeing what stupid thing Sarah Palin did, are things really that bad?
wrb
I see Fox as the issue. Anything that helps them perpetuate the illusion that they are a legitimate news organization should be fought against.
Best would be giving it to Comedy Central. Stewart, Colbert, Oliver, Bee etc could rotate. The reporting wattage in the room would double.
debit
@Pamela F: While I understand and appreciate what you’re saying, I won’t join the fight. Fighting back would mean listening so I can complain. Listening results in me having such an intense ragegasm as right wing talking points are presented as fact that I actually bruise my hands from clenching so hard on the steering wheel.
Sorry, they lost me and will never get me back. I now support a local station that broadcasts Democracy Now and feel just fine with that.
mistermix
@patrick: Just a reminder. You said:
Emphasis added to point out your factual error, which you refuse to acknowledge.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Nick:
What is your evidence for this? Don’t want to know vs. aren’t looking to conventional news media for this info, those alternatives are not distinguishable purely from viewership traffic statistics.
Fixt, unless you’ve changed your tune just in the last 24 hours about blatant bias and manipulation in the media. You yourself said yesterday that the best thing ordinary folks can do is to turn off the TV. Why are you so surprised that this seems to be exactly what is happening?
My point is, perhaps more people have wised up than we are giving them credit for, and that is what is driving the viewing stats. There would be some point to watching the news if people thought what they would learn from the stuff on TV was more accurate and insightful and relevant to their lives than the direct information they already have access to via other informal channels. But if that is not the case then why not watch Jersey Shore instead? I have plenty of anecdotal data to suggest that low info voters I’m familiar with are tuning out conventional TV news “because it’s all bullshit“, while continuing to seek out and watch programming for pure entertainment value.
ruemara
I will do anything in my power to de-legitimize and annoy fox news.
Nick
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Because the news programs and outlets that do, or had, deliver real news has/had low viewership and low readership.
Because it’s not happening. People are still tuning in, but only when they’re reporting lies or fluff pieces about Republicans. The 10 top rated Cable TV news shows are on Fox, O’Reilly’s REPEAT is #8.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Nick:
The population as a whole is not still tuning in. A subset that skews older and right-leaning is still tuning in. The audience for cable news is tiny compared with the total voting age population of the US, and the audience for the non-cable broadcast network news isn’t that much larger. TV news is dying.
eco2geek
Why the NPR hate? You got a replacement for them? Is there something even remotely similar to ATC to listen to on the drive home, or Morning Edition to listen to on the way to work? Or any of the other cool radio shows they produce?
I could care less who gets Helen Thomas’ seat, and don’t agree with everything NPR says. But I do love public radio, so quit shooting my sacred cows, punk.
malraux
@eco2geek:
Having heard a fair amount of McArdlegarble coming from NPR, I find them hard to take seriously as a news organization.
BombIranForChrist
Best post ever.
MoveOn jumped the shark with this one.
Kevin Moore
It’s all high school bullshit to me.
Donald G
I suggest that Helen Thomas’s seat be given to “The Onion” or John Oliver of “The Daily Show” instead of either NPR or Fox. At this point, there no longer appears to be much of a dividing line between satire and reality.
Shelton Lankford
Rock Creek Free Press gets my vote.
Nick
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Thanks mainly because of Fox, the viewership of cable news has not changed and/or is up in the last 10 years
news is dying, infotament is flourshing and the two are now coming together.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
@Nick:
What’s amazing is that they can maintain this hypnotic control over the voters, making them dance in the voting booths like little marionettes, and keep them entertained at the same time.
I am sure it some kind of black magic.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
This was basically the theme of the movie “Network” in 1976, which was only 34 years ago. So you are right on top of this.
Okay, 35 years, owing to the fact that the movie was released in ’76 but under construction well before that. But who’s quibbling?
patrick
@mistermix:
I have never before been accused of refusing to acknowledge something I had not previously been asked to acknowledge. Is there some sort of preemptive right to assert refusal to acknowledge rule at this blog?
So, I will acknowledge the language is imprecise. It should read something like “…because Fox is a propaganda mill different from the option of selecting any news organization, and fox was picking a battle for that chair while Helen was still sitting it it.”
And while I was unclear, it seems you are being incoherent. You make two different and contradictory arguments — which I am going preemptively assert you are refusing to acknowledge. One is that it is npr that it is not worth fighting for and the other is:
so, according to your second argument, the fight is not worth it regardless of whether its npr or anyone else.
Well, I do think it is worth a fight, and I want it to be anybody but fox. They are a propaganda mill looking for legitimization as a news organization at every turn, and their lies are just killing this country. Hell, mistermix, given the option I’d even you that seat ahead of fox. At least you are trying for some semblance of truth in your manner.
Regards,
special, privileged commenter
gil mann
Yeah, and those squeaky-toys in the shape of a hot dog aren’t much different than frankfurters.
Okay, maybe that wasn’t the best example. Still.
mistermix
@patrick: My argument is that I don’t give a shit who sits in the chair, because the institution of the White House briefing room is stupid, pointless and useless. I really don’t care if it is NPR or anyone else.
My beef with you is that you said that the choice was Fox or NPR, and that you won’t acknowledge the simple fact that it’s Fox, NPR or Bloomberg.
patrick II
@mistermix:
Ok, It is Fox, NPR or Bloomberg, and I was not clear about that in my original statement. My argument with you is that it matters (whether it is Bloomberg or NPR) that someone besides Fox gets the seat, and that you were unclear as to whether your problem was particularly with npr or generally with the value of keeping fox out of the seat regardless of who else went in it.
Generally I like your stuff and this site. Keep at it.
Fleas correct the era
It’s probably futile to reply, and awfully late too, but I guess I will. It sounds as if Keith upthread had a sad because I ignored, or maybe even advocated giving up on, all the NPRish greatness. Baby, bathwater, etc.
OK, although I think it’s kind of weird to interpret what I wrote as saying, Bring it, NPR fanboi! and coming back with, well Ari Shapiro. You’re bringing Ari Shapiro to a reporter-fight?
But OK. debit says what I want to at least as well as I could:
I also can’t listen and keep my good health, I also have a local station that broadcasts DN, and well, me too and like such as.
Also.
CalD
If it keeps them out of the pool rooms I can’t see the harm. I mean sure, it may not be high among the most productive things they could be doing with their time. But this is MoveOn.org we’re talking about so it’s extremely unlikely they’d be doing any of those things anyway if they weren’t doing this. It’s sure as hell a long way from the most counterproductive idea they’ve ever had. I say let ’em have their fun.