Ego pays
I don’t know very enough about clinical psychology to say anything intelligent or technical about this, but I’ve always felt that we are now essentially ruled by people with severe personality disorders. This study might help explain why:
Narcissists are not necessarily more creative than their peers, but they think they are, and they are adept at convincing others to share their inflated view of themselves, says Jack Goncalo, assistant professor in the department of organizational behavior at Cornell University.
Three studies led by Goncalo in 2007 and 2008 showed that narcissistic individuals asked to pitch creative ideas to a target person were judged by the targets as being more creative than others.
New research finds that narcissists are able to influence creativity in groups and in the workplace because they convey more enthusiasm, confidence, and charisma while they are selling their ideas to others.
[.....]
“The danger is that the ideas suggested by narcissists might actually be implemented despite the fact that they are not necessarily very good,” Goncalo says.
July 29, 2010 10:44 pm
Posted in: General Stupidity, Other, We Are All Mayans Now
73 Comments
73 Responses
Kryptik - July 29, 2010 | 10:47 pm · Link
So, like we all knew before, Better to be ‘Strong and Wrong’ than ‘Weak and Right’, huh? Pays to be an egotist because you can convince everyone else that they just suck.
It really is impossible to fathom how fucked up our reality is, isn’t it?
DougJ - July 29, 2010 | 10:48 pm · Link
@Kryptik:
Yes, that might be a good post tag, in fact.
SiubhanDuinne - July 29, 2010 | 10:51 pm · Link
This may be off topic, but . . . naah, it fits right in:
http://politics.freesitenow.co.....rgovernor/
Truly beyond snark. H/T Sully and Wonkette.
Allison W. - July 29, 2010 | 10:55 pm · Link
@SiubhanDuinne:
between this guy and Alvin Greene….........geesh.
kommrade reproductive vigor - July 29, 2010 | 11:00 pm · Link
Fortunately the true narcissistic type has no staying power and will either abandon the idea or piss everyone off before the idea reaches launch stage.
Unless we’re talking about the GOP.
eemom - July 29, 2010 | 11:04 pm · Link
I think that y’all should rename this blog “25 Gazillion Reasons We Are Fucked.”
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army - July 29, 2010 | 11:06 pm · Link
@kommrade reproductive vigor: Bush did seem pretty bored of the whole Presidentin’ thing for the last couple years of his term. He’d already done all the fun stuff, and people started being mean to him more, and and and…
jl - July 29, 2010 | 11:06 pm · Link
I’m too tired to do snark right now.
Not sure where DougJ’s train of thought is leading.
Our leaders are more narcissistic now than before? How do we measure that? Only narcissists willing to undergo torture of running for high office when it is such a closed little elite club? Corporate hack culture grubbing for money and power promotes narcissistic personality types? Sheltered postwar suburban upbringing, and them darn hippie boomers, and Jonsers or Xers or whatever you call them are all narcies?
We would be better off with Chester A. Arthur and Warren Harding types at the top?
Did Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR have narcissistic traits? Or just outrageous ambition?
Blaming narcissism, or any other personality type into our current problems of is not my style. I support more of a ‘fin de siècle’ systemic explanation myself.
But, I notice from the article that researchers from Stanford contributed to the study, and they know something about narcissism, so I guess I should not dismiss the article. (OK, I have enough energy for a little snark).
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army - July 29, 2010 | 11:08 pm · Link
@eemom: That should be our national motto. Find a rapper to repeat it over and over to a gangsta beat and we have a new anthem, too.
Chad N Freude - July 29, 2010 | 11:08 pm · Link
@kommrade reproductive vigor: I don’t think this is true. I know a narcissist ( not really high on the narci scale, but nevertheless, a real one) who really is smart and effective.
wasabi gasp - July 29, 2010 | 11:09 pm · Link
Go-bama! Go-bama! Go-bama!
SiubhanDuinne - July 29, 2010 | 11:12 pm · Link
@Allison W #4: There would seem to be very little chance that either of them could be actually elected, but weirder things have happened. And I can almost envision a scenario in which just enough people vote for this guy as a joke that he ends up as . . . whatever he’s running for (Governor? Senator? I already can’t remember).
Silver Owl - July 29, 2010 | 11:12 pm · Link
One does not need a degree to determine if another is a batshit crazy asshole. Just a survival instinct.
atlliberal - July 29, 2010 | 11:16 pm · Link
Newt Gingrich
Brachiator - July 29, 2010 | 11:17 pm · Link
I have very little respect for psychiatrists and psychologists who seek to displace clergy as the High Priests of society.
I am extremely skeptical of these supposed experts and lay people who toss around terms that pertain to specific diagnoses as though they can easily be applied as general categories.
This makes psychology into a full on pseudo-science, even less meaningful than the astrology column in your daily newspaper. But like astrology, the average person thinks that they can talk about Narcissists in the same way that they talk about a Scorpio.
By the way, almost any time you read an article in the mainstream media that talks about “studies” that support an interviewees conclusions, you should know that bullshit is not far behind.
Three. Three? You have got to be kidding. At the least, you would want to know much more about the nature of the studies. I wonder about the science background of the writers and the editors who brought us this story.
DougJ - July 29, 2010 | 11:19 pm · Link
@Brachiator:
Fair enough.
burnspbesq - July 29, 2010 | 11:19 pm · Link
Sort of OT, but not entirely:
What self-centered fool thought it was a good idea to write and publish this???
http://dailycaller.com/2010/07.....ournolist/
R. Johnston - July 29, 2010 | 11:21 pm · Link
@jl: “I’m too tired to do snark right now.”
Nonsense. If you were comatose you would not be able to type. Mere tiredness and even actual sleep are no barrier to proper snark.
burnspbesq - July 29, 2010 | 11:22 pm · Link
@wasabi gasp:
Careful how you pronounce that.
If it’s go-BAH-ma, OK.
If it’s go-BAM-a, not so much.
NickM - July 29, 2010 | 11:22 pm · Link
It’s been my observation in the corporate world that a certain amount of sociopathy, skillfully deployed, gets a person pretty far.
Violet - July 29, 2010 | 11:24 pm · Link
@burnspbesq:
Can you summarize? I refuse to go to the Daily Caller.
Violet - July 29, 2010 | 11:26 pm · Link
@NickM:
It’ll get you pretty far in a lot of fields, not just the corporate world.
Ed Marshall - July 29, 2010 | 11:26 pm · Link
@SiubhanDuinne:
Am I missing something? The dude has eight stripes sewed on to a JC Penney outlet mall jacket. What rank is he pretending he was in the Marines?
Michelle - July 29, 2010 | 11:26 pm · Link
Yes, there is a little bit of that going on here.
I was surprised to get a hit from this blog just yesterday.
I don’t have any advertisements on my blog and on this blog I have been called all sorts of names. But you know what? I still read it and I particularly read DougJ.
Bite me is all I can say to all of the whores. You know who you are.
I read this blog for DougJ and mistermix now. Cole, still a retrograde.
Triassic Sands - July 29, 2010 | 11:27 pm · Link
The US Senate would be the perfect place to do research on narcissists. There must be at least 85. And the Republicans in the Senate would offer an ideal opportunity to study everyone’s favorite: the narcissistic sociopath. Or are they sociopathic narcissists?
burnspbesq - July 29, 2010 | 11:29 pm · Link
@Violet:
1. The men of Journo-list are bow-wows.
2. As a general rule, conservatives are cuter than liberals.
Money quote:
You asked.
M. Bouffant - July 29, 2010 | 11:31 pm · Link
@SiubhanDuinne: Dig Basil’s 60 secs. of fame.
jl - July 29, 2010 | 11:31 pm · Link
@burnspbesq:
Your Dailycaller link may not be so off topic. A conservative theorizes that conservatives are physisexually HAWT, and that is what explains their totally excellenterness than all others. And those willing to click the link can judge for themselves the hawtness of the author.
Excerpts:
... the other lack of diversity [of Journolist members] is the total absence of hotness.
...
Maybe there is some correlation between beauty and conservatism. Perhaps pretty people don’t have to deal with as much humiliation early in life, and therefore don’t become bitter with resentment. They get dates, get picked for teams, they make out. And the conservatives who are less attractive learn and accept that the world is not fair. They make their peace with God. They don’t become utopians,
...
Is it a coincidence that Andrew Sullivan’s liberalism has increased in proportion to his hotness decreasing? Twenty years ago he was a thin, winsome Tory posing in a GAP ad. Today he looks like something making noise after washing up on a San Francisco pier.
Anne Laurie - July 29, 2010 | 11:31 pm · Link
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
See “Gingrich, Newt”... or his heir, “Palin, Sarah”.
ronathan richardson - July 29, 2010 | 11:32 pm · Link
Closely related, but important as well (from wikipedia):
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is
jl - July 29, 2010 | 11:34 pm · Link
@burnspbesq:
Dang. You beat me too the quote.
But your statement below is false.
“As a general rule, conservatives are cuter than liberals.”
That is not what that conservative hottie man said. He said that conservatives are mostly HAWT, drippingly rubbingly, jaw droppingly, clothes ripping offingly orgiefically haaawwwtttt!
Violet - July 29, 2010 | 11:36 pm · Link
@burnspbesq:
Oh, good Lawd. Really? That’s low even by Tucker standards.
I remember having the radio on during the 2004 presidential campaign right around the time of the conventions. Some wingnut talk radio host was going on and on about the hotness of the Bush twins and comparing it to the hotness of the daughters of Democrats. Seriously. Then he went on talking about how all the hot chicks were Young Republicans and the Democrats only had unshaven, unwashed hippie chicks. Then he took calls and all his callers talked about hot Republicans and ugly Democrats. It was pretty ridiculous.
After that, it doesn’t surprise me that an online site pretending to be “Serious” would publish such a stupid article.
Spaghetti Lee - July 29, 2010 | 11:36 pm · Link
Is it a coincidence that Andrew Sullivan’s liberalism has increased in proportion to his hotness decreasing? Twenty years ago he was a thin, winsome Tory posing in a GAP ad. Today he looks like something making noise after washing up on a San Francisco pier.
Wait, do you mean…with age, peoples’ physical attractiveness tends to decrease?
My God, this is blowing my mind right now. Where would we be without the Caller?
burnspbesq - July 29, 2010 | 11:39 pm · Link
This should probably be in the nearest open thread, but I’m too lazy to move it.
I am generally suspicious of marketing-driven superstar vehicles in any of the arts, but I have to say that the new record of Mendelssohn piano trios by Yo-Yo Ma, Emanuel Ax, and Itzhak Perlman is really very good.
Next up in the listening queue: 50-something international opera star (Renee Fleming) turns emo-girl to impress her daughters. Songs by (among others) Peter Gabriel, Leonard Cohen, and Tears for Fears. This could be really good, or it could be really really REALLY bad.
M. Bouffant - July 29, 2010 | 11:39 pm · Link
@Ed Marshall:
Those stripes are called hash marks, & they represent yrs. of service. Don’t remember how many yrs. each represents, but it’s more than one.
Wiki sez it’s four yrs. for each stripe in the USMC.
Of course it’s obvious the guy is a simpleton, & probably has no idea what’s going on, even w/ his sleeves.
Violet - July 29, 2010 | 11:41 pm · Link
@Spaghetti Lee:
The Daily Caller is full of such insights. My sources tell me they’re about to break a huge story regarding the color of the sky. Spoiler: looks like it’s blue.
bago - July 29, 2010 | 11:41 pm · Link
@wasabi gasp: If you’re going to go full-vanilla-ice you have to keep the cadence.
“go-bama, go-bama, go!” x 30
burnspbesq - July 29, 2010 | 11:43 pm · Link
@Spaghetti Lee:
There are exceptions. See, e.g., Emmylou Harris, Catherine Deneuve, Emma Thompson.
Yutsano - July 29, 2010 | 11:43 pm · Link
@burnspbesq: Umm…gak. Tucker’s not a repressed homosexual nosiree! He’s a right upstanding heterosexual white male who simply enjoys the massive flexing of Aaron Schock’s abs…oh wait, what were we talking about again?
Ed Marshall - July 29, 2010 | 11:47 pm · Link
@M. Bouffant:
He’s got them going the wrong direction for the marines if they are hash marks.
Ok, he’s stupid and did it wrong. Now I’m left with he’s a Sergent (based on the first three) and maybe the rest are ill-placed hash marks. That would mean he spent twenty years in and got Sergent? It sort of makes sense, but damn is that sad.
M. Bouffant - July 29, 2010 | 11:48 pm · Link
Compare & contrast w/ tea-partiers, & their non-stop resentment of everything.
I know that when I think of HAWTT reactionaries, this
guyunspeakable tub of sexist goo & his “Who’s Hot?” lists comes to mind.Spaghetti Lee - July 29, 2010 | 11:48 pm · Link
@bago:
Yes, but…why would anyone ever go full-vanilla-ice?
Anya - July 29, 2010 | 11:55 pm · Link
Speaking of big egos, Lawrence O’Donnell is really annoying. I am watching Count Down and he is really full of it. He’s even more insufferable than KO.
bago - July 29, 2010 | 11:55 pm · Link
Fred Thompson shilling for bush tax cuts. Nuts.
psycholinguist - July 30, 2010 | 12:01 am · Link
Okay, I’m a psychologist (cognitive) and you’ve just described a large percentage of successful academics, at least the ones at the higher ranked institutions. I actually remember having this discussion with a pretty famous psychologist at the end of a post doc I did with him. His claim was that good ideas did not get you to fame, fortune, grants aplenty, tenure, etc. It was your ability as a salesman that makes the difference. And he was right on the money, which is why I left the Research 1 scene and found a home at a liberal arts college. I hate those backstabbing, slimy fuckers, and they are a little more rare at this kind of place.
SiubhanDuinne - July 30, 2010 | 12:10 am · Link
@M. Bouffant #26 and #34:
Thanks for the vid link. Now I just feel sorry for him (although I reserve the right to laugh and mock when it pleases me).
Also, thanks for answering @Ed Marshall #22, as I didn’t have the faintest idea.
M. Bouffant - July 30, 2010 | 12:17 am · Link
@SiubhanDuinne: In all fairness, he’s done pretty well for himself, considering.
The Golux - July 30, 2010 | 12:19 am · Link
Kurt Vonnegut had them nailed:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/44/
BR - July 30, 2010 | 12:28 am · Link
@Anya:
Yeah, and I used to like him. I thought he was good at shutting down idiots like Buchannaannann, but really he just likes to hear himself talk.
And basically he’s against Obama no matter what the policy because he’s just bitter about not getting anything done when he worked for the senate 15 years ago.
gocart mozart - July 30, 2010 | 12:38 am · Link
@The Golux:
Last two Q&A’s for KV from your link are awesome.
mnpundit - July 30, 2010 | 12:40 am · Link
You do realize that seeing our overlords as narcissists is about 4 years behind the rest of the Lefty Blogosphere, right?
Exurban Mom - July 30, 2010 | 12:40 am · Link
@atlliberal: You beat me to it. Today’s earlier post, goes nicely with this one.
Newt is nothing but a narcissist, who’s self-portrait of “scholar” and “thinker” is bought hook/line/sinker by so many of the GOP.
In many ways, he paved the path that Glenn Beck now slimes with his own “thoughts.”
scav - July 30, 2010 | 1:16 am · Link
clearly, the intrinsic HAWTNESS of the conservatives is demonstrated, nay, proven!, by the overwhelming threat of liberal Hollywood, that basecamp of the unattractive.
eemom - July 30, 2010 | 1:17 am · Link
@Anya:
I am glad you mentioned this.
The way he stares at the camera has been reminding me of the Grady character in “The Shining.” The bathroom scene.
“A very…..NAUGHTY…..boy, sir, if I may be so bold.”
Not sure exactly what that has to do with him being an insufferable hack…....but it does.
Jim, Foolish Literalist - July 30, 2010 | 1:18 am · Link
@Anya: God, I thought it was just me. Did you know he was a Very Important Person in the Senate?
RadioOne - July 30, 2010 | 1:20 am · Link
I think that in the modern era, all creative types pretty much have to self promote themselves constantly. While I don’t think that this by any way means everyone who thinks of themselves as creative is a narcissist, the culture certainly encourages it. If you want your idea to to even be considered, you have to spend most of your time and energy selling yourself first before you even begin selling your product.
Ailuridae - July 30, 2010 | 1:25 am · Link
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
LO is brutal. Keith lost me a while ago so its really only Maddow that i watch with any consistency on MSNBC. But i tuned in earlier this week to see Countdown’s coverage of something and LO was just painful to watch.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I would have rather seen them keep Dan Abrams than have Ed Schultz or Dylan Ratigan or the Chuck and Savannah show or give LO a show.
General Stuck - July 30, 2010 | 1:34 am · Link
I turned my Dish off and saved the BP ten points or so from watching brain dead pundits deliver the latest food fight.
I do miss Cspan when I get the itch to watch Senators and reps bloviate, but at least they vote for things that matter.
O’donnell proved himself a twerp with all the HCR fail bs. We don’t get much news anymore, only personalities and their feuds with each other.
Jim, Foolish Literalist - July 30, 2010 | 1:37 am · Link
@Ailuridae:
Works for me. I’ve never seen those other shows, but I’m sure there are lots of talented journalists, writers, etc who could do a better job than ES, LO or KO. Maddow is the only one I still watch, too, but I turn on KO occasionally to see who he’s talking to, or rather, who’s getting a few words in while Himself tries waaaaay too hard to say something witty, clever, insightful and profound.
vaux-rien - July 30, 2010 | 1:44 am · Link
I’ve long thought that a raging sense of entitlement seems to correlate well with success. Of course it also correlates with privilege and with being considered a dick by decent people but possibly it would be a smart strategy to raise one’s kids as obnoxious grabby assholes.
scav - July 30, 2010 | 1:51 am · Link
OT but as a courtesy to pet owners, there is a recall of micicles, yes, frozen mice. Better? It’s international. Salmonella in the UK and US. There is an international trade in dead mice.
reality is fascinating.
Ailuridae - July 30, 2010 | 1:55 am · Link
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Its the Dork and the technocrat in me but I would really like to see MSNBC have a show that actually explained policy to people. I remember during the HCR debate just being exhausted debunking lies from left and right (same lies though) and thinking “no wonder this bill is unpopular – nobody has any idea what’s actually in it”. But the more I learn about how people process info and frankly the more I post here with like-minded folks the more I think it is pointless.
FlipYrWhig - July 30, 2010 | 2:11 am · Link
I think Lawrence O’Donnell is essentially Chris Matthews with 15 minutes of preparation instead of zero. And +4 instead of +11.
FlipYrWhig - July 30, 2010 | 2:17 am · Link
@Ailuridae: I feel like TV news is pretty good at telling stories but completely inept at conveying information. So when that information can be made into story form, it can work. The problem is that lies and disinformation are even better-suited to being made into stories. When I watch a news show I might say, “I didn’t know that happened,” but I don’t think I ever say “I understand that better now.”
Mostly it’s fun to watch the news networks and play spot-the-argument, because after making the rounds of the blogs, you can pretty much call what the people who are on to represent Both Sides™ will say.
Dpirate - July 30, 2010 | 5:47 am · Link
It’s called Ponerology.
http://www.ponerology.com/
kommrade reproductive vigor - July 30, 2010 | 6:29 am · Link
@Brachiator: This x 10,000.
Here, assuming anyone gives a fuck, is the DSM IV definition of NPD, but it may be redefined in V:
The essential feature of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of situations and environments.
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:
* Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
* Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
* Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
* Requires excessive admiration
* Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
* Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
* Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
* Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
* Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
This is more than just being cocky or vain or even a fairly a self-centered dick. This is a fucked up person who cannot play well with others.
(Personally, I have a problem with someone’s fantasy life being the basis for a diagnosis. If you can keep your weird shit under your hat and don’t bother anyone, more power to ya.)
kommrade reproductive vigor - July 30, 2010 | 6:44 am · Link
And another thing: I’d be really interested to know how they got enough participants with NPD for the study. I bet those fliers were a hoot.
“Are you the prettiest pony in the pasture? Come take part in our study to prove how totally awesome you are …”
OK, need coffee.
bootsy - July 30, 2010 | 7:25 am · Link
@burnspbesq: If you see him out from behind a desk, you’ll see that Tucker Carlson is sort of fat. Bill Kristol fat.
I think Al Gore’s fat is more attractive, he’s earned it.
chopper - July 30, 2010 | 9:02 am · Link
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
probably. DSM V looks like a hot mess so far.
chopper - July 30, 2010 | 9:04 am · Link
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
most of these sorts of studies tap from a population of diagnosed individuals.
Blurkee - July 30, 2010 | 9:30 am · Link
All of this is summed up by “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”.
urbanmeemaw - July 30, 2010 | 10:01 am · Link
@jl: EWWWWW. Rush Limbaugh? Glenn Beck? Newt Gingrich? Karl Rove? Dick Cheney? Tan Man Boner? These guys are HOT???? Think not.
slag - July 30, 2010 | 10:20 am · Link
@ronathan richardson:
Exactly this. And the fact that confidence is very persuasive is a huge problem for us.