No True Scotsman
This could be fun:
Joe Sestak continued Monday to distance himself from Nancy Pelosi while at the same time tying his Republican opponent Pat Toomey to George W. Bush.Sestak, speaking at the Pennsylvania Press Club, was asked whether he believes Speaker of the House Pelosi is a liberal or a pragmatist. Sestak describes himself as the latter.
He said he didn’t know, but also said he never looks at her voting record.
She’s a liberal, Joe, and you were, too, a couple months ago in the primary. According to very knowledgeable people.
The better response for Joe is not to dick-dance around like this and look like an idiot but to point out he is not running for the House.
July 28, 2010 7:27 pm
Posted in: Democratic Stupidity
36 Comments
36 Responses
Cain - July 28, 2010 | 7:29 pm · Link
This is joe just trying to get the people in the middle.. since he thinks his democratic votes are already there. Why does he hate us democrats?
cain
cfaller96 - July 28, 2010 | 7:35 pm · Link
I’m sure some will rend their garments over this, but honestly this is no big deal to progressives. He was never a liberal, but at least he never switched parties to explicitly save his freaking job- guys like that appear to be nightmares, especially in the Senate.
Sestak won’t be good, but he’ll be worlds better than Arlen Specter.
Lev - July 28, 2010 | 7:37 pm · Link
I like Sestak, but sometimes it really seems like he’s intentionally trying to make me not like him. I think he’ll probably beat Toomey in the end because a hedge fund manager isn’t really that well-positioned to win in Pennsylvania in this economy, but who knows? PA is full of old angry people, including my relatives in Pittsburgh, who are all Democrats that hated Hillary back in the 90s and probably hate Obama now.
Eric U. - July 28, 2010 | 7:38 pm · Link
@Cain: I guess I should have expected this, but I really think that the Democrats would be well served to come out and be in favor of old-fashioned Democratic positions—liberal positions. In my view, people aren’t happy with dems now because they are too much like republicans, but they think the dems will raise their taxes to give money to banks and wall street, whereas the republicans will not raise taxes.
BTD - July 28, 2010 | 7:45 pm · Link
In primaries, you run to the Left or Right. In elections you run to the Center. This was totally predictable. Sestak is a pol, and the do what they do.
I actually find his whole “Congressman Toomey” stuff pretty clever. I assume he’ll be referring to himself as Admiral Sestak for the duration. That’s politics John.
BTD - July 28, 2010 | 7:46 pm · Link
@cfaller96:
Meh. They’ll be about the same. Sestak might even be a little worse. He’ll have future ambitions. Specter was done after this election.
Allison W. - July 28, 2010 | 7:57 pm · Link
Well I hope that when/if Sestak is elected and votes on things that don’t fit the progressive agenda that progressives don’t act like they didn’t see it coming.
burnspbesq - July 28, 2010 | 8:00 pm · Link
On the broad, general subject of elections, Joe Klein wins the intertoobz for today, for his take on Newt’s outrage over the prospect of a mosque near the WTC site:
“Newt Gingrich is clearly running for President. How do I know? He gets dumb and angry when running for office.”
Frank - July 28, 2010 | 8:02 pm · Link
@cfaller96:
It would take quite a bit to be better than Specter. Specter has been perhaps the most loyal Democrat of all 59 since he became a Democrat.
Who knows what kind of senator Sestak will be considering the kind of insane accusations he has leveled against our party’s President, Obama.
bemused - July 28, 2010 | 8:03 pm · Link
I’ve always thought Sestak seemed more than a little hinky. I hope I’m wrong but he smells like a phony to me.
demo woman - July 28, 2010 | 8:07 pm · Link
Why not run as a liberal. If a liberal means regulation for deep water oil drilling, then I’m a liberal. If liberal means reining in Wall Street, then I’m a liberal. If liberal means affordable health care, then I’m a liberal. I never got the duck and cover bit.
burnspbesq - July 28, 2010 | 8:12 pm · Link
@demo woman:
If you’re for those things in contemporary America, you’re not a liberal, you’re a Trotskyite.
HRA - July 28, 2010 | 8:21 pm · Link
@bemused:
“I’ve always thought Sestak seemed more than a little hinky. I hope I’m wrong but he smells like a phony to me. ”
I agree.
D-Chance. - July 28, 2010 | 8:24 pm · Link
Cole, Cole, Cole… tsk, tsk
“In the primary, pander to the base;
in the general, run to the center.”
You’ll never win an election.
demo woman - July 28, 2010 | 8:25 pm · Link
@burnspbesq: Why let Fox News dictate the norm. Jim Webb’s oped piece spoke of the frustrations of poor whites. Maybe if poor whites knew dems supported things that could help them, they would once again vote democratic.
I know I’m preaching to the choir but I just want the party to fight back.
Being a democrat is hard work.
Jim, Foolish Literalist - July 28, 2010 | 8:26 pm · Link
Doesn’t make me want to tear my own hair out, but it also doesn’t strike me as a tough question to answer, “My good friend Nancy is herself a liberal, but as Speaker she brought together people as diverse as (Conservative PA Dem…. Chris Carney?) and (liberal PA Dem… Chaka Fattah?) to make huge advances in blahblahblah for this great country, and that’s what I intend to do as Senator from our great state….”. I’m not crazy about Sestak, but Toomey’s a scary fuck, and Specter was already getting weaselly with Kagan. The fact of his last election could have made him far less reliable.
FlipYrWhig - July 28, 2010 | 8:37 pm · Link
@Allison W.:
IMHO Sestak is very similar to Halter, and to Webb and Tester. No one should presume that populist/insurgent Democrats are liberals or even liberal-ish. And yet the blogosphere repeatedly makes the mistake of confounding the two planes (business/populist, conservative/liberal).
Norwegian Shooter - July 28, 2010 | 8:39 pm · Link
Love the dick references! Keep ‘em coming! (have to scroll down)
Mumphrey - July 28, 2010 | 8:52 pm · Link
@Allison W.:
This is right. I never understood why everybody flocked to Sestak. Well, I guess I can; they didn’t like Specter, or trust him. But I never liked or trusted Sestak much. I began to sour on him when, as I recall, he came out against the union card-check thing, which I didn’t understand; in Pennsylvania, Democrats can win as economic liberals.
I’m from Virginia. I understand that Webb and Warner could never win if they voted the way I’d like them to. I guess it’s the same with Tester in Montana, too. And Arkansas is, if anything, worse than Virginia, I guess, so I’m sure Halter would never have been as good as a lot of Democrats seemed to think he would, even if he’d have been better than Lincoln.
But Sestak is from Pennsylvania. You don’t have to vote like Webb or Warner or somebody like that to win as a Democrat, so I don’t understand why he’s so weaselly. I’ve said it before, but I’d much rather have Specter than Sestak. I think Sestak is going to really piss off a lot of liberals.
Paula - July 28, 2010 | 9:02 pm · Link
waitagoddamfuckinminute …
Is this Joe “vote-for-him-over-Spector-or-you’re-not-a-trooo-progressive” Sestak??
Running to the middle?
And people aren’t, you know, having conniption fits about being Troo to the Base and whatnot?
Shocker.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle - July 28, 2010 | 9:08 pm · Link
@BTD: Can you define for me what “the center” is?
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle - July 28, 2010 | 9:10 pm · Link
@Mumphrey: And Specter was trustworthy, how? He’s a slimeball like HolyJoe.
Chris G. - July 28, 2010 | 9:16 pm · Link
@bemused: Whenever Sestak is on TV, I feel like the first words out of his mouth are always “Aw gosh shucks yeah.” It’s a very weird quasi-cornpone thing he does when he’s speaking.
Mumphrey - July 28, 2010 | 9:25 pm · Link
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
Well, I can see that to a point; he isn’t a slimeball like Lieberman, though. He’s fairly open about his sliminess, which I always kind of admired about him.
Corner Stone - July 28, 2010 | 9:28 pm · Link
He’s a liberal according to who? Please cite this data point.
FlipYrWhig - July 28, 2010 | 9:43 pm · Link
@Mumphrey: Thinking of Virginia reminds me about Webb’s opponent Harris Miller, who was probably more liberal but less populist; think of Schumer or Dodd, who are pretty much liberals but also bank-friendly. That’s where everything gets screwed up: ideally Democrats would be both liberal and populist, but many of them aren’t, and backing the populist doesn’t necessarily mean getting a reliable vote for progressive policy.
(Even within that frame, though, I feel like Webb is kind of sui generis. He’s progressive on class but not on race or gender; he’s progressive on crime but hardcore on national defense and terrorism; etc. He’s just heterodox as a 21st-century Democrat.)
Nick - July 28, 2010 | 9:54 pm · Link
@Cain:
in his defense, Pennsylvania Democrats are pretty damn moderate. until recently the state’s GOP was more liberal.
Nick - July 28, 2010 | 9:59 pm · Link
@Mumphrey:
he’s for card-check, he spent a lot of time slamming Specter on his flip flop on it
Mumphrey - July 28, 2010 | 10:08 pm · Link
@Nick:
I must have been wrong about that. I seemed to recall he was against it; maybe he just hadn’t made up his mind.
BTD - July 28, 2010 | 10:26 pm · Link
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
Me. I am the absolute Center.
jayjaybear - July 28, 2010 | 11:10 pm · Link
I’d vote for a peanut butter sandwich over Toomey. I know Sestak’s not a liberal. But he can beat Toomey, and Specter couldn’t.
Toomey’s really bad, folks…he’s the Club for Growth/US Chamber of Commerce candidate, PLUS he’s a religious nut.
Common Sense - July 29, 2010 | 12:08 am · Link
@D-Chance.:
How is it that McCain never figured that out? In 2000 he runs to the middle in the GOP primary and gets clobbered. So his response is to go sit around during the 08 primary while the fringers knock each other out, then go full on wingnut once he gets the nomination?
Cacti - July 29, 2010 | 12:32 am · Link
I predict Sleestak will be a Nelson-esque PITA.
He’s better than Looney Toomey, but that’s not a very high hurdle to clear.
Bobby Thomson - July 29, 2010 | 8:34 am · Link
Sestak is a centrist. He will still be better than Specter. Before the primary challenge, Specter was making a point of sticking his finger in the Democratic eye. Without a primary challenge, he would have been even worse than Ben Nelson. It being his last election would not have cut in favor of Specter being a better Democrat. Quite the contrary. (Not to mention, anyone who believes a politician who says he won’t run for re-election is . . . perhaps a bit naive.) Even if all of that weren’t true, Specter deserved to be punished for his many bad acts over the years, which are a matter of historic record. Sestak might do bad things in the future, but Specter most assuredly already has.
All that said, I still reserve the right to get angry when Sestak does something corrupt or stupid. The “But this is how he campaigned!” defense has always been particularly lame.
cfaller96 - July 29, 2010 | 9:37 am · Link
@Frank:
Um, you realize that pretty much “ever since he became a Democrat” he’s been under a primary challenge, right? I think Nate Silver did some work on this. For the time gap between when he switched and when Sestak announced, Arlen was basically a Republican on key votes. Sestak announced a primary challenge, and then Arlen suddenly became Che Guevara.
As soon as Arlen’s job was safe, he would have gone back to being a Republican. He couldn’t be trusted to remain a “loyal Democrat.” And that’s why he lost the primary. PA voters did not make a mistake here.
Corner Stone - July 29, 2010 | 2:21 pm · Link
@Corner Stone:
I’m still waiting for an answer to this.